<Olympic1>
stratochief: is FAR the only mod holding this back for a 1.2 release
Snoozee is now known as Majiir
<acc>
Olympic1: I get also warnings about procedural parts being outdated
<stratochief>
acc: yeah, proc parts is a mess in a few ways. I don't know if that has an official 1.2 CKAN-able release
<acc>
duno either, installed manually
<Pap1723>
stratochief, are Procedural Parts really needed anymore? Can't you achieve everything using Procedural Tanks only?
<acc>
huh? the procedural tanks are from procedural parts
<Pap1723>
Sorry, I meant that isn't the Procedural Tank the only part that is needed from there?
<acc>
it's all the same code-wise
<stratochief>
Pap1723: yeah, not sure what you mean. it is all the same code, same mod
<acc>
just different functionality
<Pap1723>
I just thought that removing the excess parts would make the mod easier to edit and maintain
<stratochief>
procedural fairings is seperate, I think
<acc>
yep, fairings is another one
<xShadowx>
if you have 1 liter of o2 gas, and a person breathes it 100% to co2, what is the volume of said co2?
* stratochief
clutches his proc decoupler with his cold, dead hands
<acc>
Pap1723: the tanks are the main thing. all other parts are more or less tanks with extra part modules. it wouldn't change much removing that litle bit extra
<xShadowx>
guessing wouldnt be 1 liter exactly still :|
<Pap1723>
ok
<stratochief>
xShadowx: assuming the temperature is the same before and after?
<xShadowx>
stratochief: and ambient pressure etc ya
<Pap1723>
.66 liters
<acc>
btw I really like that new procedural avionics pack
<stratochief>
xShadowx: probably not the same, no. the mass of oxygen would/should remain the same, right? and you could check the density of both oxygen and co2 at STP, etc.
<stratochief>
acc: yep. it is some not stuff. hat tips to rsparkyc
<stratochief>
*hot stuff
<acc>
yeah :)
<Pap1723>
xShadowx, based on your example, the human would inhale essentially 2 atoms and exhaling 3 atoms. So if we are just going on that, it would be 2/3 liter
<xShadowx>
ah.....so take mass of o2, add mass of carbon that would make it co2, see volume of co2 ?;3
<xShadowx>
Pap1723: dif atoms are dif size, mix 1 cup alcohol with 1 cup water ^.^
<Pap1723>
no, i know that
<acc>
stratochief: speaking of pDecoupler: I love that SSTU one, with the hollow collider
<KevinStarwaster>
waot whats this? procedural planet damage from asteroids??? WHAT?
<xShadowx>
KevinStarwaster: was also the short lived kerbal terrain mod, crashing dented ground :|
* xShadowx
wants that mod back
<stratochief>
Probus: mmm, that retropropulsion
<stratochief>
Probus: oh, fuck. they Finally started listening the speed and altitude stats for the first stage during re-entry? I've wanted that forever!
<stratochief>
I suppose it makes sense, since they would just say CLASSIFIED if talking about the second stage
<acc>
yep
dormantdex is now known as DuoDex
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] stratochief66 closed pull request #1614: STAR 37E SRM global engine config (master...RO-STAR-37E-Global-Config) https://git.io/v9nk1
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] stratochief66 pushed 5 new commits to master: https://git.io/v9Ru6
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master a535d49 Phineas Freak: STAR 37E SRM global engine config
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master 332defc Phineas Freak: Forgot to change the reliability start values
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master 40489ad Phineas Freak: Add the reliability data source
<KevinStarwaster>
wow... so I just made this mk2 plane based rocket... to test a little reentry plane thingy... and it suddenly swung down on the launch pad.... and now it's hanging in midair upside down swinging like a pendulum... back and forth... slowly rising higher and higher
<KevinStarwaster>
abiyt 1m per sec....
<KevinStarwaster>
cant think what I'm running that would do this. RSS, PP, RF, DRE....
<stratochief>
does TweakScale come somewhere after the ... ? :P
<acc>
ok, I figured out how to create a branch on my local clone of the repo. but how does one work on different branches, since there's only one repo
<acc>
?
<acc>
(working with git shell)
<stratochief>
acc: go back to the original clone, make another branch with a unique name?
<stratochief>
acc: ahh, you mean you want to change over to working on the new branch you've created. you'll want to look into the checkout command
<stratochief>
I believe
<acc>
with checkout I can switch branches in the git shell
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<KevinStarwaster>
good question stratochief... I have had it installed while troubleshooting OTHER people's issues... but this behavior is frceakin new
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<KevinStarwaster>
I did figure out which PART is responsible... it's Porkjet's revamped terrier... but only when configured for LH2+O2
<KevinStarwaster>
oooh yeah there's tweakscale
<KevinStarwaster>
must have done something flaky like giving the engine negative mass or some shit
<KevinStarwaster>
I wonder, if I let it go for an hour, will my plane leave the planet?
<KevinStarwaster>
velocity is constant... about 2.7-2.8 m/s
<stratochief>
rumour is, if you leave tweakscale installed and people in this channel know about, it you get ze boot :P
<stratochief>
*installed for an hour
<rsparkyc>
that's why i don't tell people i use it…
<rsparkyc>
…i mean...
<rsparkyc>
…umm
<rsparkyc>
TWEAKSCALE IS EVIL
<rsparkyc>
(don't boot me)
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: LOL. well, starwaster had 'mysterious behaviour', which wasn't mysterious at all, just your average tweakscale
<rsparkyc>
jaja
<stratochief>
chances are, if someone describes a problem out of the blue where everyone's eyes start bleeding, and up becomes down, and every dog gets AIDS, changes are 101% it was caused by TweakScale. really not a surprise or mystery every anymore
<xShadowx>
i wont touch tweakscale ever since i saw it applies scale every update() frame instead of just scene start :|
<xShadowx>
so much room for improvement in that mod
<stratochief>
xShadowx: why not fix that. PR notes: "scale is no longer applied every update(). the dead will probably stop rising from the grave now, or at least occur less frequently"
<KevinStarwaster>
by itself the engine does NOT float away... I even attached it to a clamp and let it go
<KevinStarwaster>
uhm what? every update? why would it EVER?
<KevinStarwaster>
literally every update not every FIXED update?
<xShadowx>
update() makes sense cuz graphical, but repeatedly...just..no
<stratochief>
because it worked, so the code was updated and stayed that way.
* stratochief
taps side of head, while making a wise smile and nodding
<acc>
stratochief: it was "git worktree" I was looking for
<stratochief>
acc: ahh. but why check out more than one branch at a time? when isn't just one enough in this context?
<rsparkyc>
what the heck is wrong with my SRB…
<acc>
yeah, I figured out how branches works now. but good to know for the future
<rsparkyc>
the nozzle is embedded on the side at the top of the engine
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: screencap?
<KevinStarwaster>
so, does anyone else here build their first planes in career mode with landing legs because they suck at landing planes? Or was that just me?
<rsparkyc>
fyi, there's actually a tweekscale part there...
<stratochief>
I just tested a jet powered first stage for my Vanguard, using the J-X4 whiplash engine. I forgot how interesting a jet first stage can be. I used that many a time in stock
<rsparkyc>
so i want to test by removing that
<rsparkyc>
it's just a structural part, so i don't know if that's the issue yet
<stratochief>
KevinStarwaster: can't take them off, can't land them. rocket assisted take-off only for me, and parachute the whole plane back to the ground as well
<KevinStarwaster>
I can take off just fine :P
<KevinStarwaster>
I'm an expert in taking off!
<KevinStarwaster>
just not.. the landing part of it
<KevinStarwaster>
so I slap some legs on them and land them vertically. That I can manage
<KevinStarwaster>
maybe some airbrakes on the nose to make sure I can get down tail first...
<stratochief>
nope, never seen that. truly tweakscale working some magic for us today
<rsparkyc>
tweakscale isn't in that screenshot
<stratochief>
but... is it in the install? didn't you say you were rebooting, removing TS to see if that made a difference?
<KevinStarwaster>
when retracting my landing legs makes my plane aerodynamically unstable...
<rsparkyc>
still in the install, just have no parts using it
<rsparkyc>
i've used these SRBs with tweakscale installed and never had issues
<rsparkyc>
they're just the procedural ones
<acc>
KSP can deal with symlinks, right?
<Pap1723>
KevinStarwaster, I just refused to build early planes, fixes all my issues
<stratochief>
acc: yep
<acc>
stratochief: perfect. thanks
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<rsparkyc>
can anyone else confirm (or deny) that their procedural SRBs work fine?
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: just, like, in general? works fine on my install
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<rsparkyc>
works as in the nozzle isn't on the side
<rsparkyc>
o/ NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: Starwaster left a message for you in #RO [02.05.2017 01:21:18]: "do you remember the last time Procedural Parts had problems updating their drag cubes? What was the cause and what was the solution? It's happening again"
<xShadowx>
o/
<acc>
hullu
<Pap1723>
ho NathanKell
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: nozzle definitely on the bottom. science, thrust, plume, and er'thing
<NathanKell>
!tell *Starwaster it required poking FAR via event to let FAR know the object updated. IIRC it's via Unity's SendMessage functionality.
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: out of novelty, have you tried if it works fine for you w/o tweakscale installed, today?
<rsparkyc>
the only major change is now i'm running principia, can't see that messing with this
<rsparkyc>
let me try
<xShadowx>
KevinStarwaster: ^
<NathanKell>
oh heck, I even put the * at the front to account for that but didn't, like, check that's who was logged in :D
<xShadowx>
:)
<NathanKell>
thanks pal :)
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: did you try out the cockpits in PR #1567? if you did, we can probably merge them. unless someone else feels like testing airplane cockpits in game?
<NathanKell>
When I first added support they had very bad partnames IIRC. Hopefully that's better?
<KevinStarwaster>
eh what?
<Qboid>
KevinStarwaster: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [03.05.2017 01:59:27]: "it required poking FAR via event to let FAR know the object updated. IIRC it's via Unity's SendMessage functionality."
<KevinStarwaster>
yeah no, FAR wasnt involved
<KevinStarwaster>
NathanKell
<rsparkyc>
aaaaand….. there goes my MM chache
<NathanKell>
I'm sorry I misread what you asked about
<NathanKell>
I read it as updating their drag, not cubes.
<NathanKell>
Lemme try to remember again
<NathanKell>
I believe it was because PP sets stuff on the first tick, but that's after proc cubes render. So we had to force a rerender
<rsparkyc>
stratochief, i haven't actually tested those parts in the PR
<rsparkyc>
was just looking an open PRs and made that comment
<stratochief>
alrighty. RO really needs someone who gives a crap about planes to review PRs :P
<rsparkyc>
lol
<rsparkyc>
or, we merge it in, and noone will know
<stratochief>
I'm going to MARS. stop bothering me with subsonic aeroplane cockpits!
<NathanKell>
But how ya gonna map Mars?
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: but then equality few people would notice if we leave an untested cockpit unmerged
<stratochief>
NathanKell is going in, up close and personal?
<rsparkyc>
stratochief: that is true
<NathanKell>
the PR is broken anyway
<NathanKell>
See line 26 and following
<stratochief>
ahh. RIP, attempt to modify resource node, doesn't call node by name
<NathanKell>
and doesn't modify what's in it either, it adds
<NathanKell>
Now if there's only one RESOURCE that's fine, it's the lack of @ inside that's the problem
<rsparkyc>
see, that's why we need you around more
<KevinStarwaster>
it tries to set it on the second frame...
<rsparkyc>
lol
<NathanKell>
KevinStarwaster: Then it shooooould be ok
<NathanKell>
rsparkyc: Heh. Still got it ~~~~~
<KevinStarwaster>
yI had a little better luck setting it on a go off rails event but I keep getting exceptions somewhere
<rsparkyc>
stratochief: FYI, removed tweakscale, srb nozzle still screwed up
<rsparkyc>
time to kill more mods
<KevinStarwaster>
putting in some checks here...
<stratochief>
NathanKell: do you want to make a comment on that PR, then when he doesn't reply in the next week, we just close it?
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: Strange. thanks for uninstalling Tweakscale though, I felt the world get a little better
<NathanKell>
ok. Although being the guy who added 'em originally, and Mr. ROPlanes, I like that at least someone cared :P
<rsparkyc>
haha
<KevinStarwaster>
and while I'm out of the game let's nuke tweakscsale
<rsparkyc>
i wish we had procedural structural parts
<KevinStarwaster>
we... do?
<stratochief>
alright, my mission is complete. g'night all
stratochief is now known as stratosleep
<KevinStarwaster>
or is there something specific in mind you're thinking of
<KevinStarwaster>
stratosleepwhenyouredead
<stratosleep>
KevinStarwaster: girdery looking bits, I assume?
<rsparkyc>
KevinStarwaster: I use the octagonal strut a lot, but would like to scale it
<rsparkyc>
yep
<stratosleep>
KevinStarwaster: I tried not sleeping for a bit. it sucked. I want those couple years of my life back, but the next-best route to to treat myself with the sleep I deserve, when I deserve it
<NathanKell>
ok, commented.
<stratosleep>
thankee NathanKell
<NathanKell>
:)
<NathanKell>
Oh that reminds me. I need to comment on the tweakscale issue that (a) NEVER USE IT FOR WINGS but (b) we should support it for simple structurals.
<rsparkyc>
KevinStarwaster: is there a better alternative than those parts but with the same look?
<rsparkyc>
that's all i ever use tweakscale fore
<rsparkyc>
fore? what is this? golf?
<Pap1723>
NathanKell, what is the best method to create small fins for sounding rockets if I don't want B9 procedural?
<rsparkyc>
start to want B9 procedural
<KevinStarwaster>
better how? you want something with the same look but... that's not procedural parts? I'm not getting it
<Pap1723>
lol, but I would literally ONLY use it for the first 3 rockets I launch
<rsparkyc>
T, G, and B keys are your friends
<rsparkyc>
KevinStarwaster: exactly
<NathanKell>
Pap1723: Uh...use DYJ's?
<rsparkyc>
oh, wait, no
<NathanKell>
Although I think they aren't tech supported as well either
<NathanKell>
RP-0 requires them because they're balanced throughout the tree (temperature-wise)
<rsparkyc>
with the same look and i don't need to use tweakscale on the stock parts
<rsparkyc>
we don't have procedural structural parts do we?
<NathanKell>
Not AFAIK
<KevinStarwaster>
yes we do
<rsparkyc>
and where would I find such part?
<NathanKell>
Sorry, by structural I interpreted that as square girders, not solid cylinders
<KevinStarwaster>
Procedural Parts, in the structural menu
<NathanKell>
or did PP get a lot of new toys recently?
<rsparkyc>
I see a crew tube
<KevinStarwaster>
is that what you mean? square procedurals?
<NathanKell>
I mean girders and I-beams
<rsparkyc>
yeah
<rsparkyc>
i want more than just circular parts
<rsparkyc>
:)
<KevinStarwaster>
no, no square procedurals
<NathanKell>
ah, dang
<rsparkyc>
i had my hopes up too :)
<KevinStarwaster>
I mean it should be possible, obviously a cylinder with four sides is square
<rsparkyc>
i would love to be able to set the number of sides on a cylinder
<NathanKell>
you could opacity map it, but that'll look rather sketchy
<KevinStarwaster>
maybe some day
<rsparkyc>
until then, i'll continue to use tweakscale for those
<rsparkyc>
and for engines of course :)
<NathanKell>
I take it ProcEngines is still notalive
<rsparkyc>
nope
<rsparkyc>
s/nope/you are correct
<Qboid>
rsparkyc meant to say: you are correct
<NathanKell>
ach weels
<rsparkyc>
NathanKell: I think you came in after i posted this, but have you ever seen a procedural SRB jack up it's nozzle like this? http://imgur.com/a/en1So
<KevinStarwaster>
ok, a Mk2 cockpit, two fins canted up a bit, one in the middle, the craft is named 'Barely Alive'...
<NathanKell>
Yeah. Thought Camel fixed that.
<NathanKell>
We used to have drifting nozzles a fair bit
<rsparkyc>
ok, hmm, wonder why i'm seeing it again
<KevinStarwaster>
doesnt ring any bells with anyone? Unpowered descent?
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<rsparkyc>
hmmm, well i removed principia and a few other things and now it looks right...
<rsparkyc>
let me add them back in
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<rsparkyc>
ok, anyone else using principia in an RO install?
<NathanKell>
rsparkyc: At one point it was float issues IIRC, so Principia (which does stuff with reference frames) might be involved
<rsparkyc>
hmm, that sucks
<rsparkyc>
i can try to put together a stock + principia + PP install and see if i still have the issue
<rsparkyc>
assuming so, who would be the right person to look into that
<NathanKell>
Whoever's working on PP I guess?
<NathanKell>
It might need to force reset the position of the nozzle transform *after* any reference frame shifts
<NathanKell>
(krakensbane twitches in stock, but Principia might do its own)
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<acc>
well, that will take a bit until I get used to git :>
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<acc>
for easy testing I symlinked KSP/gamedata/RP-0 to my local repo. but to make it work I had to create the tree.cfg
<acc>
so how do I tell my git to ignore that file?
<acc>
but only locally
<acc>
if I change the .gitignore file hat would be commited as well, when I push the changes to the remote repo
<rsparkyc>
there's a global gitignore file
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<acc>
ah, great :)
<rsparkyc>
.gitignore_global i think
<rsparkyc>
thought might be worth just pushing up the .gitignore
<rsparkyc>
because we all should be ignoring it
<acc>
ok, I can do that as well
<acc>
good, then I can test my pushing skill heh
<rsparkyc>
and your PR making skill :)
<acc>
yeah :3
<rsparkyc>
i think i'm about to fork procedural parts...
<rsparkyc>
i've always hated that "0 burn time" issue
<acc>
huh? had no such issues so far with PP
<KevinStarwaster>
what about PP?
<KevinStarwaster>
AFAIK I'm the only one doing anything with it
<Qboid>
[#202] title: No lower limit on SRB Burn time | There is no lower limit on the srb burn time. The maximum time is 600 seconds, but the minimum is 0, and the nozzle gets ridiculously large. ... | https://github.com/Swamp-Ig/ProceduralParts/issues/202
<rsparkyc>
unless i'm on the wrong fork
<KevinStarwaster>
rsparkyc, if you want to make changes, why not make a PR to my branch?
<rsparkyc>
I can do that, are you maintaining it now?
<KevinStarwaster>
yes
<rsparkyc>
i'm updating the spreadsheet to point to your release then
<KevinStarwaster>
in fact, the ckan people switched to my branch
<rsparkyc>
great
<KevinStarwaster>
I'm hoping NOT to do it forever but who knows
<rsparkyc>
haha
<KevinStarwaster>
dunno what happened to whoever was handling it
<KevinStarwaster>
another MIA modder
<rsparkyc>
it happens
<KevinStarwaster>
btw do NOT make a procedural part (esp fuel tank) root
<rsparkyc>
why?
<rsparkyc>
i make procedural avionics parts root all the time
<KevinStarwaster>
still trying to work out why it started acting up. didnt know it had a problem until I was trying to figure out why my RF test vehicle had such low boiloff
<KevinStarwaster>
the problem is that it's not resetting the drag cube properly
<KevinStarwaster>
if you make it root then it will be stuck at like 1m
<KevinStarwaster>
I guess it's not a HUGE deal unless you're counting on it for shielding or braking
<rsparkyc>
ok, interesting
<KevinStarwaster>
like the procedural heat shield or something
<rsparkyc>
well, procedural avionics parts are usually in a fairing at launch
<KevinStarwaster>
if it's just avionics then it's probably ok
<rsparkyc>
yeah, avionics and battery
<KevinStarwaster>
I've got it to rerender the cube properly by doing it when it's coming off rails but then it throws exceptions
<KevinStarwaster>
it STILL gives me a properly specced cube and I dont think the errors are hurting anything but I'm not happy that they're there at all
<rsparkyc>
cool, sounds like you know more about it than I ever will :)
<rsparkyc>
what do you think of a 0.1 sec min burn time for a SRB?
<rsparkyc>
will probably throw that together in the morning
<rsparkyc>
going to bed now, will catch you guys later
<KevinStarwaster>
give it a shot and we'll see hot it works
<KevinStarwaster>
how
<rsparkyc>
sounds good
<rsparkyc>
gnight
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<acc>
apparently my pull request skill is around zero :>
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<Olympic1>
acc: how so
<acc>
Olympic1: because I had no public repo to request from
<acc>
only the local clone
<Olympic1>
ah
<schnobs>
I'm having strange UI issues. The MJ, KCT and other windows can have a grey background, or be transparent. Sometimes so transparent as to be barely visible.
<schnobs>
Only solution is to restart KSP until it looks about right.
<schnobs>
is that a known problem?
<acc>
havn't seen that yet
<schnobs>
Well, I'm a Linux user -- maybe there's just not that many of us left.
<TwistedMinds>
that's a weird one schnobs
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<acc>
possible
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<Theysen>
ksp forum "bring back a nerva" so it doesn't pollute the planet when the rocket fails to deliver it to orbit and is on reentry coure" .. correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it not that big of a deal as long as the reaction wasn't started?
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<schnobs>
Theysen: basically yes. The casing was also supposed to survive reentry so that the whole thing would splash into the ocean in one piece, and sink to the bottom as one piece.
<stratochief>
Theysen: I believe you are right. For some people, any involvement of any nuclear/radioactive material is unacceptable. You're German, right? You should understand this :P
<stratochief>
crazy Germany and their anti-nuclear, pro-coal behaviour
<Theysen>
dude, germans build nuclear reactors on active earthquake regions just to realize that AFTER it's finished
<stratochief>
How 'active', compared to the entirely to bloody japan, on the edge of the pacific rim?
<Theysen>
active enough to have it shut diwn
<stratochief>
earthquakes aren't inherently bad for nuclear plants. like any industrial/construction project, you harden the systems to withstand expected levels of earthquake/disaster
<stratochief>
Theysen: well, supposedly potentially active enough to be used as an excuse to shut them down
<Theysen>
Okay, so you want an atomic reactor next to your house on an active rim so you die if something happens?
<Pap1723>
Damn, you Germans are crazy. That is right in the middle of a damn town
<Pap1723>
At least where I am in the US, we try to keep those things a little bit outside of the town
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<stratochief>
I'd like to see, or make a comparison between Germany and Japan, when it comes to how likely various earthquakes are, vs to what earthquake level they were hardened against
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<Theysen>
Pap1723, but would it make a difference? All you can hope for is that the wind favors you
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<Pap1723>
True, but I think it is the image of the Cooling Towers that give a slightly uneasy feeling
<Theysen>
stratochief, I do also believe Germany has stricter laws again and rules on what where to build and what can be used and what not
<stratochief>
Pap1723: yeah, the nuke plants around Toronto are also relatively close. not sure why a few dozen more km away wasn't acceptable
<Pap1723>
stratochief, I am guessing that it has to do with building the extra infrastucture of wires most likely
<stratochief>
Theysen: sure, I imagine their rules are stricker because they have more of an anti-nuclear movement, but I'm curious what actual potential safety they gain from it. I'll have to look for an analysis sometime
<Theysen>
Pap1723, the difference is though that a german nuclear plant would be safe to operate. When the french old plants go poof (and they will do, they're leaking already) guess what - most build on german border so rip me
<stratochief>
Pap1723: quite possible, which is a poor reason
<Pap1723>
We love our nuclear power in Illinois, we have 6 nuclear plants, but the closest one to Chicago is about 90 miles away
<Pap1723>
We do have 7 Coal / Natural Gas Power Plants within 50 miles and those are much much worse to be located near
<Theysen>
funny side fact. In my town there are yellow signs behind every window saying : STOP TIHANGE (nearby french "plant") and they are up for years losing their color from the sun etc, activists embarassed themselves by claiming that is due to the leaking radiation.
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<stratochief>
Theysen: lock in your prediction of how many nuclear accidents you except in the EU over 5 or 10 or 20 years, then note it down here. it helps combat the hindsight bias: https://predictionbook.com/
<Theysen>
stratochief, you know by heart how many plants there are in france? all of those /s
<Pap1723>
Damn Theysen the French are finally getting you guys back for WWI and WWII and also the Franco-Prussian War. They were playing the long game. Clever.
<Theysen>
inb4 we develop giant emergency fans and blow it back to them
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<Sigma88>
Theysen: where are you from?
<stratochief>
Theysen: I'd have to do a good bit of study to make my own prediction for that specific case, but off the top of my head I would expect a 1% of a single fukushima level accident in the EU in the next 20 years. definitely a higher chance of a Three Mile Island (core melt, reactor shut down, zero impact off site), which is a financial loss, no environmental or human impact
<Theysen>
Sigma88, Germany obviously
<Theysen>
stratochief, yes I think so too, I am fairly sure there will be incidents but no hardcore killer explosion rendering europe dead
<Pap1723>
stratochief, isn't Fukushima still too hot to even research with robots?
<Sigma88>
and germany has no nuclear?
<Theysen>
Sigma88, of course we do
<stratochief>
the pro-anti nuclear stuggle is both wasteful and dangerous. IMO, gradually close down old plants as they reach the end of lifetime, build new and safer reactors. pro-nukes want to keep old reactors 'juuust a little longer' and anti-nukes refuse new, safer reactors. so we end up in a lose-lose world. RIP atmosphere, hello CO2
<Pap1723>
*hot* as in radiation level
<Theysen>
stratochief, I believe once that transport problem is solved our windparks will take care of the main demand
<Theysen>
but wait - uuuuugh it's ugly activists stepping in.. you can't please humans
<stratochief>
Pap1723: sure. will be for 20 years or so. relatively little human risk outside of the plant (at the moment), but that is because japan was lucky on the wind. still, what a wasteful and tragic evacuation on top of the tsunami and flooding
<Pap1723>
Damn stratochief
<Pap1723>
Y'all are depressing today
<stratochief>
Sigma88: germany is doing an accerated program of nuclear shutdown, 2-4 times faster than they should have IMO. half the reactors were old, would have been shut down by reasonable people within the next 10-15 anyway
<Sigma88>
why all this nuclear talk? did something blow up? :D
<stratochief>
Sigma88: no, Theysen asked a question about nuclear thermal rockets crashing into the ocean, and nuclear happens to be both an area of my interest, work, study, etc.
<Sigma88>
nuclear thermal rockets like for probes?
<stratochief>
Theysen: can't rely on wind, it always needs something to supplement it to match demand. really, no single power system can provide good power (affordable + reliable)
<Theysen>
someone on the forums wanted to make a challenge out of "securing" a not yet activated NERVA but as I asked here and schnobs confirmed, unactivated is not dangerous compared to activated
<stratochief>
Sigma88: affirmative
<Theysen>
i liked that russian rocket which had effective booster nuclear engines
<stratochief>
Sigma88: no, wait. nuclear thermal rockets are engines that put through hydrogen, like the NERVA stock part. currently, we just use RTG or little isotope heaters, not full nuclear engines like NERVA
<Theysen>
i think we won't either, electric propulsion is on the get go
<Theysen>
especially german institutions have made significant progress on those engines
<Pap1723>
Do any of you know the most likely future electrical propulsion? Is the VASIMR engine likely to work?
<stratochief>
Theysen: anyway, with my current estimation of nuclear risk in the EU, the benefits of nuclear (drastically lower CO2 emissions, afforable power) far outweigh the small risk of harm to the environment or humans. this is why germany makes me sad
<Pap1723>
stratochief, since you obviously know a lot about this, what about the nuclear waste? Is it dangerous to store it like it has been stored? It never goes away ever, right?
<stratochief>
Theysen: but, where does the electricity come from to fuel an electric propulsion unit? making 50MW to power a human sized EP vehicle takes a large mass of solar panels. nuclear power is still a real option there too, rather than nuclear thermal
<stratochief>
Pap1723: chemical waste doesn't ever go away, nuclear waste becomes less warm and risky with time.
<Theysen>
still talking probes stratochief not human
<Theysen>
there won't be human exploration for another half of century
<Pap1723>
ah, good to know
<stratochief>
Pap1723: it isn't ideally safe as it is stored now, in on-site cooling ponds. best is central, underground storage which is safe. nuclear reprocessing is better IMO, but more expensive
<Pap1723>
There needs to be a major breakthrough in 2 fields to open the solar system up for human exploration...Power Generation and Power Storage
<Sigma88>
what about the environmental impact of solar panels and batteries? how do they compare with combustion engines + biodiesel ?
<stratochief>
spent fuel continues putting off notable heat for years after use. keeping them near the reactor means actively cooling it in a water pool. that can be a risk itself, as Fukushima shows with the risky cooling pool. better to move waste off-site sooner, so the pools aren't full
<stratochief>
Sigma88: hard to judge, since so much of that manufacturing is in Asia, where you don't get good analysis of material source impacts, and they aren't using 'best practices', just whatever is cheapest
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<Theysen_>
dc'd if i missed somth sorry
<Pap1723>
stratochief, when you say heat, are you actually referring to thermal heat?
<stratochief>
Pap1723: both thermal and radiation, much more-so thermal, particularly in the year after the fuel comes out of the reactor
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<Pap1723>
Theysen_, I just agreed with you that human exploration of the solar system needs major breakthroughs in power generation and power storage before it is realistic
<stratochief>
why power storage for exploration? solar panels and nuclear reactors both produce power continually, why buffer it?
<Pap1723>
stratochief, that is crazy to think about, what types of temperatures are we talking about and how long does it take for them to cool?
<Theysen_>
If we are already to fly purely solar around Jupiter on 8 ion thrusters, I believe there will be ways for sure
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<Theysen_>
disregard, apparently I can't read
<Theysen_>
I saw solar panels instead of radiator panels, fail
<Pap1723>
stratochief, solar isn't constant and out past a certain point, it is useless
<stratochief>
Pap1723: to truely cool? a hundred years plus. but, after a year in the pond you embed it in a heatsink, which can be above ground or just buried in ground material (waste in a titanium bin, rated for 1000+ years
<stratochief>
Pap1723: well, solar is a function of distance to the sun, sure. do you propose storing MWh from Mars distance, to burn at Jupiter? I say, bring a nuclear power source
<Pap1723>
stratochief, nuclear would make sense, but it would have to be a form of fusion, not fission, correct?
<stratochief>
Pap1723: the heat decreases as half-life does, over time. it can be passively cooled by cement or in the ground within 5-10 years after leaving the reactor. small heat production, but continuous and it comes into account in deciding how to store it
<CobaltWolf>
Nuclear for what?
<stratochief>
Pap1723: nah, fission power would work fine as a space power source. hell, that is what the interplanterary craft in the Martian used
<Pap1723>
How large of a reactor would you need to power powerful enough electric engines to propel a craft fast enough to make a trip to Saturn realistic?
<CobaltWolf>
well the advantage of RTGs is that they're fairly small. Fission, let alone fusion is a much larger undertaking
<CobaltWolf>
but you'd have insane amounts of power even with the smallest fission reactor.
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: fission reactors have been built and flown in space.
<stratochief>
RTGs are mass inefficient. I think the Stirling is more similar to an RTG than the TOPAZ
<rsparkyc>
!tell *Starwaster any chance you could edit your ProceduralParts fork to allow people to post issues? I'd like to reopen this on your fork: https://github.com/Swamp-Ig/ProceduralParts/issues/202 Did some digging and I think i know what the issue is, but wanted to document it more on the issue and get your feedback
<Qboid>
rsparkyc: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
[#202] title: No lower limit on SRB Burn time | There is no lower limit on the srb burn time. The maximum time is 600 seconds, but the minimum is 0, and the nozzle gets ridiculously large. ... | https://github.com/Swamp-Ig/ProceduralParts/issues/202
<rsparkyc>
o/ stratochief
<CobaltWolf>
@stratochief there was also the US one launched on an Agena bus I thin
<rsparkyc>
i haven an install with just principia and procedurals, and the SRB nozzles look right there, so i still need to do more digging to find out why mine are off
<CobaltWolf>
and yeah RTGs are mass inefficient but it sounds similar to the LV-909 and NERV in stock KSP. Sure the NERV is better but for a lot of uses the cons outweigh the advantages
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: weren't you using different proc DLLs, like the one you dug up on the forum? that could be causing the nozzle issue?
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: sure. NERV (nuclear thermal) or even nuclear electric are good options for moving tens of tons around the solar system, including humans to Mars, asteroids, Juptier
<rsparkyc>
stratochief: that was procedural fairings
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: ahh, sorry
<CobaltWolf>
@stratochief my point being that a fission reactor is overkill for a lot of applications
<stratochief>
Theysen_: how does a german keyboard work? is there an Umlat key? :P
<Theysen_>
ö ü ä ?
<stratochief>
yep.
<Theysen_>
we have them on the keyboard itself
<Theysen_>
ü next to p, ö and ä next to L
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<stratochief>
Theysen_: gotcha, that explains it
<Pap1723>
Where are the semi-colon and left bracket contained then, Theysen_ ?
<Theysen_>
semicolon next to M with Shift
<Sigma88>
à è é ì ò ù
<Sigma88>
and for some reason, §
<Theysen_>
french=
<Sigma88>
italian
<CobaltWolf>
what's that one power generation method that had the sunlight reflected onto a tube of mercury to heat it up and generate power?
<Theysen_>
ah right
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: well, nuclear in spaaace has a wide range of sizes, powers. the example of a sterling source would be useful for smaller probe electric propolsion
<Sigma88>
but we have this as well ç
<Sigma88>
never used in the italian language, go figure why it's there
<Sigma88>
but we don't have ~
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: that... sounds crazy, and I'm not aware of it. sunlight can be used by a parabolic reflector to heat water or salt in a tube, solar-thermal?
<Sigma88>
-.-
<Sigma88>
I need to do [ALT][1][2][6]
<rsparkyc>
anyone have any idea what should be calling this function?
<rsparkyc>
that's not getting called, which has a side effect of causing the SRB to allow infinite thrust, thus bringing the minBurnTime down to 0
<CobaltWolf>
the picture is a bit hard to understand, the profile is a bit like this: -)==(-
<CobaltWolf>
where the - are the mercury tubes, the ) and ( are the parabolic reflectors, and the == are just the walls of the station
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: I don't like it :P
<Theysen_>
solar sails are going to be a thing I am fairly sure
<rsparkyc>
stratochief: adding RSS into the mix breaks the nozzle position
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief: its crazy haha
<CobaltWolf>
I considered making something like it to provide power for the Mercury one-man station I wanted to make parts for, but then I realized they'd *really* just use batteries or more likely fuel cells
<stratochief>
Pap1723: could create it, and RTGs are used on plenty of other things. it is worth trying both nuclear and solar powered probes, Juno just shows the downsides of solar
<stratochief>
now they are stuck in a higher orbit, because they don't want to risk Juno ending up in a shadow, getting no solar power
<CobaltWolf>
I thought it was because they were worried that trying to use the engine more could lead to a catastrophic failure?
<Starwaster>
rsparkyc those get called from ProceduralAbstractSoRShape when it scales the meshes
<Qboid>
Starwaster: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [03.05.2017 15:08:02]: "any chance you could edit your ProceduralParts fork to allow people to post issues? I'd like to reopen this on your fork: https://github.com/Swamp-Ig/ProceduralParts/issues/202 Did some digging and I think i know what the issue is, but wanted to document it more on the issue and get your feedback"
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: not a catastrophic failure in a conventional sense. they worry that a partial burn would leave it in an intermediate orbit that could be in shadow. the current orbit and the target orbit would be fine
<stratochief>
but they can't guarentee that the burn will work completely, so it might ended up shadowed and thus without power
<rsparkyc>
Starwaster: i put some logging in there, never saw it actually get called, but i didn't try to rescale the booster
<rsparkyc>
let me try that
<stratochief>
the US can acquire more Pu-248, both from other countries (I think) and domestically. they choose not to because they are weak and sad. low energy!
* stratochief
fires shots at Rokker
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<Rokker>
stratochief: the fuck are you on
<Rokker>
we started back up pu 238 production years ago
<stratochief>
Rokker: wake me up when america is great again or can make big RTGs
<Rokker>
stratochief: and Russia isn't selling any more to us iirc
<rsparkyc>
none of them tach the signature of what's in that class
<Rokker>
you are just scooping it off the ground of the northern territories
<rsparkyc>
there's a comment out signature that may look like it matches above it
<stratochief>
Rokker: bro, look at the first article I linked
<rsparkyc>
either way, the fact that that's not being called is what's causing the minBurnTime to be 0
<rsparkyc>
(though you only see that when running with RealFuels)
<Rokker>
stratochief: propaganda to cover up the fact that you are giving us used Russian Pu-238
<rsparkyc>
didn't realize that without RealFuels the boosters behave totally differently
<Starwaster>
rokker but it's only been used ONCE by a little old lady from Pasedena
<Theysen_>
lol how you all mock canada
<CobaltWolf>
its not like they'll defend themselves :P
<CobaltWolf>
(said Cobalt as he furiously applies for work in Toronto and Montreal)
<stratochief>
Canada Manchurian Candidate'd Carter in 1952, when we faked a nuclear accident and brainwashed a bunch of navy officers who came to 'clean up'. Joke is on all of you.
<stratochief>
the US has been on a downslope since he was president, RIP American exceptionalism.
<stratochief>
in comparison, Canada has always been in a holding pattern of mediocrity
<Pap1723>
stratochief, that downslope currently looks more like a cliff
<Pap1723>
except for myself and CobaltWolf we are still exceptional
<stratochief>
Pap1723: No, cliff, no cliff. Fake news.
<Pap1723>
Theysen_, what country do Germans mock?
<stratochief>
yeah, what EU country is ~10% the size of Germany, similar GDP per capita? Switzerland? Belgium?
<Theysen_>
Pap1723, I thought germans had no humour so we can't mock
<Pap1723>
That actually sounds accurate Theysen_
<Theysen_>
:⁾
<stratochief>
mockery is more similar to isolating a minority population and persecuting them. Germans are good at that.
<Starwaster>
are there any mods defining their own TANK_DEFINITION?
<stratochief>
Starwaster: none that I know of?
<Pap1723>
stratochief, technically, your country is larger than ours. Just because you cannot fill it with as many people because all of your most famous people move the US, is not our fault
<stratochief>
Pap1723: technically larger? you try living in muskeg, tundra, and canadian shield. we all crowd within a hundred km of the US border for warmth and fertile farmland
<Pap1723>
stratochief, hey, within 50 years, that might be where we all move to get away from the scorching heat and lack of fresh water
<stratochief>
north of that, it is bog and snow, with vast government owned (Crown) forests that US snowflakes don't like us harvesting and selling, because having vast forested wastes are an unfair advantage
<Theysen_>
+ seeing the downfall of the once greatest country of all times from a safe distance? :^)
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<stratochief>
come to Canada, great view of atomic weapons flying north and south as the apocalypse commences.
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: orbital assembly, using parts brought up by Shuttle, IIRC
<stratochief>
Theysen_: only 'great' because all the real great powers fought each other to the bring of self-destruction, and America got to profit
<Pap1723>
stratochief, damn right, better to be lucky than good!
<stratochief>
*to the brink
<stratochief>
Pap1723: then you passed on that luck to China by regularizing trade, now they are the cool country doing innovating things
<Pap1723>
I am not going to read that whole document, would the shuttle have been able to reenter at Lunar reentry speeds?
<stratochief>
the growth of like 5 different styles of nuclear reactors in China right now is really interesting. everything from pebble beds to LFTR to CANDU
<Pap1723>
stratochief, yep, we have been mismanaged by terrible leaders for far too long, I have a theory that the American style of democracy is not actually a good form of goverment, despite what we tell everyone
<stratochief>
Pap1723: no damn way, but I dislike Shuttle :P
<Pap1723>
The only time the government is effective is when there is a tragic event that the entire country has to rally behind, WWI, WWII, Cold War, 9/11
<taniwha>
stratochief: talisar parts (own tank def)
<stratochief>
Pap1723: the government style isn't so bad, it is the US form of corporate control of citizens and government that wrecks it
<taniwha>
er, tank type, actually
<Starwaster>
"The mission is similar to the Apollo approach except
<Starwaster>
that upon return the spacecraftpropulsively brakes into orbit instead of direct entry"
<stratochief>
taniwha: ahh, never heard of it. but fair enough
<Pap1723>
and even then, like in the case of WWII, it takes an actual attack to get people to work together and not just oppose each other because they are on the wrong side of the aisle
<Starwaster>
because the tiles wouldn't have been up to a lunar return.... probably
<taniwha>
stratochief: it's my resurrection of some of Talisars parts packs
<Starwaster>
oh I'm sorry I thought this was for talking about space matters and Realism Overhaul, my bad
<stratochief>
Pap1723: if you call the response to the Cold War or 9/11 a success, I've got news for you :P
<stratochief>
Starwaster: the tiles could accept the amount of heat of a lunar return to orbita capture, fair enough. they were radiatively cooled, not ablative, right? or did the shuttle tiles also ablate somewhat?
<stratochief>
so, shuttle soaks heat into the tiles, then bleeds it away as radiation? so total heat soaked is the important factor?
<Starwaster>
no they did not ablate
<Starwaster>
the rate of heating is also an issue
<stratochief>
Pap1723: for the cost of the response to 9/11, the US could've done Mars Direct like 5-20 times over
<xShadowx>
dont forget that it was proven government knew of 9/11 before it happened
<Starwaster>
Get your ass to Mars
<xShadowx>
^
<stratochief>
xShadowx: 'knew of', as in had knowledge that someone might try something, amongst thousands of other intellgence reports. having information isn't enough, sifting noise from true threats is the hard part. signal:noise
<xShadowx>
technically the response to 9/11 was short step-on-bug style response
<stratochief>
although honestly I'd rather the US just invested domestically most of the money they spend on war and military buildup, rather than going full out for Mars colonization
<xShadowx>
it was just dragged out after for other reasons
<Pap1723>
No, i didn't say that the responses were a success, but they are the times in the country where people agreed because they thought others had good ideas. Other times, the other person is wrong, no matter their thoughts, just becuase they are from a different party. Nothing gets done
<stratochief>
if only human space exploration had dragged out like that, "for other reasons" :P
<xShadowx>
just wait til china lands on mars....
<Theysen_>
if only we could act as oneworld^tm for space exploration
<stratochief>
xShadowx: 2050? perhaps, but I'll be grey and senile, and may just think it is a hallucination or VR propaganda
<xShadowx>
^
<xShadowx>
^^ too
<stratochief>
Theysen_: not with the biggest funder of the UN cutting funding and undercutting the validity of collective problem solving. why the US gotta 'merica everything up?
<stratochief>
Theysen_: but yeah, a steady coalition of nations building a human spaceflight program would be ideal
<Theysen_>
Yes please
<stratochief>
Both space activity and global military intervention are done to boost a country's profile in the world. How about we make a UN version of both, with astronauts and UN peacekeepers wearing NASCAR logos proportional to funding from each nation?
<stratochief>
then the funding nations still get their PR boost, and we get cooperative problem solving?
<Theysen_>
this #irc channel should lead the world /s
<stratochief>
Theysen_: nah, just me. /s
<Theysen_>
indeed
<Pap1723>
He already has Chief in his title, crown his ass!
<stratochief>
Theysen_: Me and a group of friends are working a project for 'global problem solvings', so I think of these things regularly anyway, and fight about it:
<Theysen_>
first resolution: make new ksp with RO as basis
<Pap1723>
First resolution passes with unanimous votes
<Theysen_>
oh and Pap1723 no ass-kissing but nice to see you on the real deal now as I am guilty to have played stock with your modifications to the otherwise senseless endevaours, appreciate ut
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<stratochief>
Theysen_: sure, but who gonna fund?
<Theysen_>
stratochief, the world we lead, remember
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<stratochief>
Playing stock isn't guilt, we all gotta start somewhere. Hell, I started playing some stock again recently to familiarize myself with Principia
<Theysen_>
pleb /S
<stratochief>
Theysen_: what do you foresee solar sails being used for in the next 20-50 years?
<Sigma88>
Bill Nye :D
<Theysen_>
don't know, cheaper missions which otherwise wouldn't get funding
<stratochief>
Bill Nye is an... interesting guy. he seems 80% drunk in 90% of the interviews I see him in. Good for teaching science to kids, 20 years ago, but...
<stratochief>
Theysen_: vague hope is vague :P
<stratochief>
I just don't quite understand how a solar sail is supposed to be steered, or if the solar wind is consistent/predictable enough to actually be useful for a targetted mission to a planet
<Theysen_>
solar wind? oO
<stratochief>
solar wind, as in outflow of charged hydrogen from the sun. that would influence a solar sail, along with photons, right?
<Theysen_>
it uses the constant pressure of photons being emitted
<CobaltWolf>
I just like the stock artstyle more...
<CobaltWolf>
well
<stratochief>
sure, but it also has to content with solar wind, asteroids, meteors, other potential sail punctureres, etc.
<CobaltWolf>
my artstyle
<Theysen_>
what?
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<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: I really don't care for the stock style, mostly because it is so inconsistent. that damn orange tank, some random striped parts,, etc.
<stratochief>
your style is superior to the stock style, naturally
<CobaltWolf>
Yeah that's what I meant when I said it
<CobaltWolf>
or like, the shuttle stuff in Cormorant and Shuttle Payload Technology? that stuff is great
<CobaltWolf>
I'm in the awkward position where i like RO more, but I like the porkalike style more and I want everyone (including stock players) to be able to play with my stuff cus I'm vain
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<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: well, textures can be added to ProcParts. if you made a pork-alike or cobalt-alike texture for that, I'd certainly use it :)
<stratochief>
since most people who play RO use procparts and procfairings substantially. only oddballs like me enjoy assembling lego-kits like FASA or BDB
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<xShadowx>
stratochief: s/oddballs/crazies
<Qboid>
xShadowx thinks stratochief meant to say: since most people who play RO use procparts and procfairings substantially. only crazies like me enjoy assembling lego-kits like FASA or BDB
<xShadowx>
:)
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<xShadowx>
though i wouldnt mind a couple extra cfg, just a compiled fasa model
<Theysen_>
my cons for lego kits is the time and thinking I have to put into assembling it, I know exactly how to do things quick, good looking and efficient with procedural stuff
<stratochief>
Theysen_: yeah, which is why I shared FASA craft files, and RN shares crafts for his parts. time saver
<Theysen_>
it's too specific for my playstyle
<Theysen_>
so it's completely subjectiv
<Theysen_>
s/subjectiv/subjective
<Qboid>
Theysen_ meant to say: so it's completely subjective
<CobaltWolf>
I dislike the way PP looks. Stretched textures are blegh. In general I don't procedural stuff tho. I understand why RO peeps use them
<CobaltWolf>
I'd rather have nice bespoke parts though... SSTU is by far the best compromise IMO
<xShadowx>
i dont use textures that just stretch :) solves that
<xShadowx>
if PP had an N sided cylinder-ish part, that would kick PP to the top quick :P
<xShadowx>
people want 3/4/5/6/8 sides heh
<rsparkyc>
yeah, i totally want that
<rsparkyc>
but i also want them to look like structural trusses
<Theysen_>
sstu is the thing in the future I'd assume
<Theysen_>
he already made trusses procedural
<xShadowx>
i forget the mod, taniwha had the screenshot, lots of lovely trusses :D i forget if proc though
<rsparkyc>
i may have to look into SSTU
<Theysen_>
if he might reduce some parts down in function and just provide the procedural side of part configuring then it's bliss
<rsparkyc>
but more than that, i want by SRB nozzles in the right place
<Theysen_>
rsparkyc, iirc those trusses were in addition to huge kepton tanks ballons
<Theysen_>
but he's an open minded modder so best we propose it at some point
<taniwha>
xShadowx: thss?
<taniwha>
wasn't proc
<taniwha>
or if you mean my WIP stuff: may be proc
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<xShadowx>
i just remember a screenshot from you, not-quite-cube shaped trusses, and i couldnt get it cuz WIP (memory too bad for author prolly was you :D )
<Qboid>
xShadowx thinks taniwha meant to say: minei can give you it now
<xShadowx>
jkjk <3
<xShadowx>
im evil :)
* xShadowx
should model some parts but can't compete in quality
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: SSTU has a decent range of adjustable SRBs. not hyper-ranged, but you could possibly make them more procedural than they currently are
<rsparkyc>
yeah, but i don't like the fact that the procedural parts one is broken (when combined with RSS and Principia)
<Pap1723>
thanks for the kind words Theysen_
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<stratochief>
Pap1723: I defiinitely enjoyed your contract pack. it worked pretty well for me with stock+principia a weekend or two ago, until I tired to leave Earth's region. the current(new) principia should fix that, I just haven't had a chance to play again since then
<stratochief>
the tech tree was very empty for me, but as you said, there is a mod to fix that, removing empty nodes
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief: that was in RO or in stock?
<CobaltWolf>
oh wait contract pack
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: stock
<CobaltWolf>
oh ok
<CobaltWolf>
Wait no you did say tech tree. Which one were you using?
<Pap1723>
stratochief, CobaltWolf yeah, the tree can be empty without something like BDB, I won't play it wihout Hide Empty Tech Tree nodes, makes it much nicer
<stratochief>
Pap1723: conventional magnets, IIRC. the only fusion concepts that interest me use modern high temp superconducting magnets, like the ARC
<CobaltWolf>
I remember reading about the Lockheed reactor and being far more interested about it than the Tokamak but I don't remember why
<CobaltWolf>
something to do with the Tokamak design, if the magnets fail then the reaction can escape rather than dying out in the Lockheed design IIRC
<Pap1723>
stratochief, you are speaking words I don't understand, and I am smart enough to defer to your thoughts on these things
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<SigmaTrain>
stratochief the ARC as in the one used by Iron Man???
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<Probus>
Landing burn looks like 1 and only 1 engine lites up.
<Probus>
It would be nice if they listed the gees too. I bet its pulling quite a few stratochief.
<Pap1723>
When the CONFIGS are located in the REWORK folder, what is broken with them? Is it game breaking, or is it just realism breaking?
<HypergolicSkunk>
uhm, which mod am I missing if my engines (incl. the Merlin) look like Stock-engines?
<HypergolicSkunk>
good evening btw o/
<Pap1723>
o/ HypergolicSkunk
<CobaltWolf>
real plume
<CobaltWolf>
?
<HypergolicSkunk>
it's installed. at least the folder is there.
<Pap1723>
@HypergolicSkunk, you are missing parts mods that add those engines
<HypergolicSkunk>
but I mean the engine model
<Pap1723>
There are a lot of Squad parts that are copied and duplicated by RO configs to create the "Merlin" or other engines
<HypergolicSkunk>
ah
<HypergolicSkunk>
is it the same for you atm?
<Pap1723>
For example, the Merlin from stock is the Skipper engine with different values
<Pap1723>
the same engine is also modified to be an RL10
<HypergolicSkunk>
makes sense
<Pap1723>
no, right now, I have SSTU and use their engines, almost exclusively
<HypergolicSkunk>
weird. in my 1.1.3 install I did not use SSTU and still had a realistic Merlin model
<HypergolicSkunk>
(that didnt look like the Skipper :P )
<Pap1723>
then something is wrong with your install
<Pap1723>
I have SSTU in 1.2.2 working well
<HypergolicSkunk>
hm, ok :)
<Starwaster>
god, I'm leaving myself messages in my spreadsheets.
<Starwaster>
even worse: I'm having conversations with myself
<Starwaster>
conductivity scratch sheet. (please think about deleting this, Kevin!)(NO! It's still useful! STFU)
<Pap1723>
Starwaster, sometimes you have to, otherwise you look at them and have no clue WTF you were doing
<CobaltWolf>
how does that make you feel? Starwaster
<Starwaster>
I dunno, I'll ask myself
* HypergolicSkunk
offers Starwaster the couch.
<rsparkyc>
Starwaster: any chance you could enable the issues tab on your procedural parts github fork?
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<rsparkyc>
or do you have that off on purpose?
<Starwaster>
no, I'm not sure why it's off
<Starwaster>
must bea side effect of forking it
<Starwaster>
never even seen that happen before
<Starwaster>
it's on now
<rsparkyc>
sweet
<rsparkyc>
going to open some up so i can document what i'm seeing
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] PhineasFreak opened pull request #1627: Fix some wrong & missing MM passes (master...RO-RealChute-Pass-Fixes) https://git.io/v9EKH
<Theysen_>
zilti2, and the last time I looked at your mod list for a RO install I just quit :*
<Pap1723>
Theysen_, when you have a chance, do you want to update the FASA link on the first page of the RO forum post, or do you want to wait until it is an official release?
<Theysen_>
sec
<Theysen_>
link to new thread?
<Pap1723>
No, Raidernick has the 1.2.2 repository on the RO Github and the thread is from 1.05 still
<Theysen_>
ah right, link?
<Theysen_>
jk
<Theysen_>
added
<Pap1723>
nice
<Theysen_>
inb4 non ro players come and "It says RO edition can haz this in stock?" ...
<stratochief|away>
Sigma88: I'm sure the name of the MIT fusion ARC was influenced by Iron Man, but no, not the one from Iron Man
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<Sigma88>
oh it's a real thing?
<stratochief>
Pap1723: honestly, regarding REWORK, not sure. I haven't touched or looked at anything in that folder since -I- joined RO
<Sigma88>
they will probably ret-con it like the iron-man name itself :)
<Pap1723>
lol stratochief
<stratochief>
Sigma88: real reactor concept, yep. compact fusion reactor that uses modern high temp superconductive tape, rather than just 'tons O copper' like most reactors still use
<stratochief>
Sigma88: this rendering probably means more to you if you know a bit more about the concept, but it is cool regardless: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efOlmF3wjJE
<stratochief>
Pap1723: what kind of mods are in REWORK? anything we use or discuss here ever?
<stratochief>
Pap1723: also, completing the Luna 3 mission w/o mechjeb, even in stock (with Principia) is going to be interesting :)
<stratochief>
for RP-0, a contract like that should be optional IMO. free-return of a probe like that is Hard
<stratochief>
Theysen_: inb4 FASA just stops working for stock at all, because nobody cares enough to fix it
<Sigma88>
stratochief: so how's the status of fusion right now?
<stratochief>
Sigma88: promising, since lower cost, higher temp superconductors are now available and regularly manufactered. still drastically underfunded, as it has been for 40 years, therefore no huge advances
<Pap1723>
stratochief, isn't going to be easy, that is for sure. It was the only way the Russians could get the images sent back though, had to get closer to Earth
<Pap1723>
stratochief, Sigma88 isn't the old joke about Fusion is that it is 20 years away for the last 40 years?
<Pap1723>
But it is that way because it is 20- years away with the proper funding?
<Sigma88>
my ignorance about the topic is surprising even to myself :)
<Sigma88>
I don't even know if anyone managed to get the fusion reaction going
<stratochief>
Pap1723: exactly. keep spending no real money on a field, continue getting no meaningful results towards commercial power
<stratochief>
Sigma88: plenty of fusion devices exist. hell, the Farnsowrth fusor has been a tabletop demonstration device since the 60's the current 'next step' is producing as much energy from fusions as it takes to power the heaters, magnetic fields, etc.
<stratochief>
then, to do that at 'steady state' or for long enough periods to make it worth operating, then to add the heat exchangers to convert that excess energy to electricity, all at a low enough cost to make it a competitive source of electricity
<Sigma88>
very cool stuff
<Sigma88>
and you work on that?
<stratochief>
goodness no. what did I say that gave you that impression?
<Sigma88>
there was someone saying that he was working on nuclear stuff
<Sigma88>
not sure if fusion tho
<Sigma88>
not even sure if it was you :)
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<stratochief>
RSS sort of has its own science definitions defined doesn't it? I imagine that is a useful tool for modders making their own planets, though.
<Sigma88>
yes RSS already has those
<stratochief>
I don't actually know what bits 'science definitions' includes, actually. space-high, or biomes, or what?
<Sigma88>
just the messages you read when you do science
<stratochief>
Pap1723: actually, Luna 3 was easier than expected.
<Sigma88>
it's <planet><situation><biome>
<Sigma88>
but as far as I can tell, <situation> and <biome> are optional
<Sigma88>
meaning you add them just to limit where that definition gets displayed
<stratochief>
Pap1723: so far, I get the feeling that the contracts are on a strict, singular, linear track. at this moment, it looks to diverge by countries (I'm offered Korabl-Sputnik and Mercury-Redstone), but not by destination or mission type.
<stratochief>
Sigma88: gotcha
<stratochief>
I think :P
<Sigma88>
with this it would be possible to repurpose the community science defs to load on RSS
<Sigma88>
just need to switch Kerbin > Earth, Mun > Moon, Duna > Mars, etc
<stratochief>
Pap1723: so, I'm corralled into doing Mercury before being given the option to pursue a soft lunar landing, or a mars/venus flyby, GTO or GEO
<stratochief>
Sigma88: interesting. I haven't looked at community science defs in a long time. wouldn't kerbin and earth still need to have the same biomes for that to work? or at least the same count of biomes? for all I know, actually maybe they do
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<Sigma88>
stratochief: yes, but for now my plugin can only change the nams
<Sigma88>
names
<Sigma88>
depending on how much motivation I get, I might make it more flashed out, for now I just need the names for SASS
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<Olympic1>
Sigma88: The community science defs are broken in 1.2 because of a bug in the game on how the results are loaded
<Sigma88>
what kind of bug?
<Olympic1>
If you add a lot of defs using MM and do an experiment, it shows one string and keeps repeating that for the rest of the game
<Sigma88>
so with 2 it shows both?
<Sigma88>
but with multiple it just shows 1?
<Olympic1>
I loads them into a dictionary, but at a certain number it behaves weirdly
<Sigma88>
oh
<Olympic1>
If you have for example 7x DunaSrfLanded, it should add a * to every one of them, to track which one is already used. Instead it adds a * for the amount of results of that type. For example: your first result will be DunaSrfLanded, but your last result will be DunaSrfLanded******* while it should be only one *
<Sigma88>
interesting
<Sigma88>
what a weird ass way to define science deffs