<soundnfury>
(and of course my secret weapon is konrad. We don't need no steenking tracking station!)
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<NathanKell>
o/
<acc>
hey NathanKell
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: Great that you got it sorted! :)
<NathanKell>
Pap: I too would love to see LV pics
<NathanKell>
I think that's my favorite part of RO, LV design
<xShadowx>
o/
<xShadowx>
i thought you fav part of RO was that it existed ;p
<NathanKell>
...
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: KONRAD is indeed a powerful weapon :)
<lamont>
what difficulty options are you using for this RP0 playthrough?
<NathanKell>
Modearte
<NathanKell>
urrf
<NathanKell>
Moderate*
<NathanKell>
I usually play on hard, but with 100% fund loss penalties (aka building costs)
<lamont>
ah
<lamont>
yeah that explains all the differences
<NathanKell>
which means this playthrough is advancing far faster than I'm used to, but even more building-bottlenecked than usual
<lamont>
does increased building costs translate into increased time in KCT?
<gazpachian>
this is with the contract overhaul, right?
<NathanKell>
lamont: Yes, same BP rules as for parts
<NathanKell>
IIRC
<NathanKell>
gazpachian: Yeah
<gazpachian>
I'm going to be so lost without the stock satellite contracts, putting stuff in moon orbit for 130k a pop is how I usually farm build points. It's mostly money from progression contracts now as far as I understand?
<NathanKell>
there's also generics AIUI
<NathanKell>
Pap's been very busy <3
<gazpachian>
he's a national treasure
<NathanKell>
Uh oh, that means Sean Bean's gonna steal him, no?
<gazpachian>
you win some, you lose some
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<NathanKell>
brb then STREAMTIME
<xShadowx>
\o/
<xShadowx>
what are we gonna do tonight Brain?
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<soundnfury>
holy cow, twitch works again. And all I had to do was _block_ scripts from cloudfront.net.
<Rokker>
stratochief Pap 19.5 hours until spacex scrubs
<Agathorn>
I've never had any problems with scripts on Twitch
<Agathorn>
But hey, Linux i the best!
<Agathorn>
s/I/is
<Qboid>
Agathorn meant to say: But hey, Lisnux i the best!
* Agathorn
runs
<Agathorn>
think I have stage serialization finished or almost anyway
<Agathorn>
got a bit more complex now that i'm dealing with MonoBehaviours and not just raw data
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<Agathorn>
I'm actually really starting to like Unity's JsonUtility. Not only does it make it easy to serialize object data with JSON but it allows partial data loads, essentially patching an object with a subset of its data from JSON
<Agathorn>
So I basically add a compontent to a GameObject, then stamp it with the JSON data
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<Pap>
awww, nice things were said about me when I was gone :)
<Pap>
@RokkerI need a scrub tomorrow, my daughters birthday party and won't be able to watch
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<Agathorn>
Ok/Cancel or Cancel/Ok
<Pap>
OK / Cancel
<Agathorn>
its a surprisingly mixed bag
<Agathorn>
And the arguments for either way are perfectly sound lol
<Agathorn>
For now i'm going with the Windows standard though which is OK/Cancel
<Pap>
really? I use Microsoft Office products quite a bit, so it is Save then Cancel, most comfortable to me
<Agathorn>
Windows is OK/Cancel, Mac is Cancel/OK
<Agathorn>
I've noticed in Canada most webforms are Cancel/OK whereas in the US most are OK/Cancel
<Agathorn>
The argument for putting OK first is it makes sense in natural left to right rading order
<Pap>
Ah, so Canada is wrong, backwards ass people
<Agathorn>
The argument for putting OK last is that OK generally moves you forward, and thus should be in the same place a Next button would be
<Agathorn>
both ways are logical :D
<Pap>
Those are both very logical arguments, damn
<Agathorn>
:)
<Agathorn>
I assume the majority of players will be on Windows though
<Agathorn>
so going to go with OK/Cancel
<acc>
I'd prefer a more international "yay" and "Nope"
<Agathorn>
don't even make me think about localization
* soundnfury
summons the egg
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vHg5n
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master f4ffd51 NathanKell: Fix TestFlight configs for Baby Sergeant solid (the TF config 'name' field has to match the engine CONFIG name)
<UmbralRaptor>
Isn't it 0520 in eggland?
NathanKell|Twitch is now known as NathanKell
<UmbralRaptor>
*0510
<soundnfury>
UmbralRaptor: probably. But someone mentioned l10n, which is like i18n
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: I know what type of LV you should build...
<NathanKell>
I almost made a comment about "totally not going for Black Arrow"
<NathanKell>
Pap: Awesome!
<Pap>
NathanKell: the tree would be considered complete for you, the first 15 years are done :)
<NathanKell>
:D
<lamont>
tech tree click bug driving me nuts right now
<NathanKell>
Pap: I'd suggest putting Hypersonic Flight on the spaceplanes line as the first spaceplane node, and instead having a high speed flight node for the J79, YJ93, and J58 (and whatever other stuff we put there now)
<NathanKell>
or, well, Extra-Mature Supersonic Flight. Or whatever name you like
<Pap>
I created a node called Hypersonic Flight in 1960 for the X-15, but I had it in the Regular Flight line, should it go to Spaceplane line?
<NathanKell>
Yeah, that was my thought, and instead make a planes node there (where High Speed Flight is now--right now it's both regular stuff and X-15 stuff)
<NathanKell>
is now in the old tree I mean
<Pap>
Gotcha, makes sense
<NathanKell>
yeah, looking at the node in tree.yml there's a clear divide between X-15 parts, the spaceplane landing gear, and the spaceplane b9 wings on the one hand, and everything else on the other...
<NathanKell>
Also as of now the capsules have integrated RCS so that's why they depend on flight control nodes. So I'd suggest keeping those links (i.e. the current one that unlocks hydrazine/HTP as a prereq for basic capsules, and the one that unlocks NTO as a prereq for second-gen)
<Pap>
Ah, that's right, that is a good point
<NathanKell>
although actually maybe not a prereq for second gen, never mind
<NathanKell>
because Gemini is parted out so the RCS is in another part, and Voskhod still had coldgas
<NathanKell>
so just stability as a prereq for basic
<Pap>
Done
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: you know, the problem with the Gamma in RO (apart from the whole "Juno-class LV in an Atlas-class technode" thing) is that there's no progression
<soundnfury>
because RO only has historical engines, there's no peroxide engines to follow on from it
<soundnfury>
which is sad; the parts pack I'd really love to see would be a line of fictional HTP engines, at least nearly competitive with normal ones
<NathanKell>
I think the upcoming tree will help some because they'll go in a slightly earlier node (although, again, they're still matched up against the first LR79s and RD107s)
<Pap>
What am I missing with the Gamma engines, I have them researched and flown in 1969 how can I be so far off?
<NathanKell>
Pap: Also worth considering (as I think is the case now?) having Improved Flight Control require Orbital Rocketry 1960 (for the NTO unlock)
<soundnfury>
Pap: well, Black Arrow flew in 1969. But if the USA or USSR had decided to do peroxide, they'd have flown an equivalent a decade earlier ;)
<soundnfury>
(they had a _lot_ more money for rokkits than we did)
<Pap>
Ah, so the Gamma engines should be unlocked when? I was always surprised they unlocked so early
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: It used scaled down Black Knight engines, and they're '59 vintage
<NathanKell>
Ah, whoops, 1958
<NathanKell>
so that's why
<NathanKell>
they're basically 57/58 tech
<NathanKell>
equivalent to LR79 and RD107, slightly later than RD-103 and NAA75-110
<NathanKell>
but posssssibly for gameplay purposes should be with the latter pair not the former. Open to persuasion :)
<soundnfury>
anyway, I _really_ have to zzz now
<Pap>
Alright, updated on my sheet, good to know
<NathanKell>
they'd make a viable alternative to Juno or Vanguard then
<Pap>
Goodnight soundnfury
<NathanKell>
nigth soundnfury!
<soundnfury>
I trust by tomorrow morning there will be much peroxide excitement for me to enjoy ;)
<NathanKell>
Oh right, they came from Stentor in Blue Steel
<NathanKell>
so yeah, there's a fair argument to put them with the RD-103M
<Pap>
That is real early
<NathanKell>
yep, 1955
<NathanKell>
I'm not aware of any Isp information on Stentor, but it can't have been much worse than Gamma
<NathanKell>
Actually, yeah it could :]
<NathanKell>
but yeah, the debate is between RD-103M's node, and the prototype LR79/RD107
<NathanKell>
I could go either way, but I think the gameplay argument for the earlier node is fairly strong
<Pap>
I've never used them in RO, what can I achieve with those engines at that point in a career?
<NathanKell>
Vanguard
<NathanKell>
Well, slightly better than Vanguard to be fair
<NathanKell>
235kN, 265s for the booster, 68kN for the upper at the same Isp
<NathanKell>
so basically a double Vanguard with a lower-performing lower but higher-performing upper, you'll still need a kick motor
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<NathanKell>
Pap: Also if we're splitting avionics and flight control, why not just rename the flight control subtree to RCS? Do the nodes do anything other than unlock RCS bits / TLs?
<NathanKell>
Maybe call them Thrusters? Early/Basic/Improved Thrusters?
<NathanKell>
Pap: Also, the A-6 should be in the same node as the RD-103, since it dates to the early-mid 50s; the A-7 is the contemporary of the prototype LR79, since it was flown for the first time in 1956
<Pap>
Only thing that would miss NathanKell is the Reaction Wheels
<NathanKell>
Oh, right, I literally _always_ forget we have them
<NathanKell>
Yeah, I guess Attitude Control Systems maybe?
<NathanKell>
I dunno
<NathanKell>
'flight control' just sounds so close to avionics it feels confusing
<Pap>
Attitude Control Systems sounds good
<Pap>
The one spot I struggled with today was where to put docking?
<NathanKell>
Sorry to go all rapid fire, but another note: You mention the XLR83-nA-1, that should actually predate LR79 and 89, which were derived from it...
<NathanKell>
Pap: Ah, that's a great question. It feels weird to have a whole tree just for it, but it _is_ a hard technology so maybe worth it
<NathanKell>
something spawned from attitude control and avionics I guess
<NathanKell>
but they're at opposite ends :(
<Pap>
My plan was to group it in in the "Flight Control" that we just renamed
<Pap>
That is a tough one
<NathanKell>
Yeah, that seems fair, the nodes are kinda empty with only RCS
<NathanKell>
(and later wheels)
<NathanKell>
so I guess Orbital Operations maybe fits better?
<NathanKell>
blargh
<Pap>
I will think on it
<Pap>
I gotta get going, leave any other feedback for me, it is invaluable, thanks!
<NathanKell>
or just Attitude Control, Attiude and Translation Control, Docking...?
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<NathanKell>
will do! Cheers!
<lamont>
NK: do you have any magic tricks for fixing the KCT tech tree click bug?
<NathanKell>
lamont: Go to an unlocked node and hover over the green 'unclock all parts' button then move away, then go back to your node
<NathanKell>
you should be able to highlight the button now
<NathanKell>
that has an about 80% success rate in my experience
<lamont>
still not working
<NathanKell>
do it a few more times
<NathanKell>
that's all I know of
<NathanKell>
click unlocked node, mouseover the green, mouse away, click node you want to unlock, hover over and click blue
<NathanKell>
if that fails, close the R&D screen and try again
<lamont>
oh interesting, i don’t have enough funds to actually click on any of the “purchase all parts” buttons
<NathanKell>
then that's why
<NathanKell>
it will not highlight, so it won't reset the highlighting
<lamont>
looks like i need to get paid…
<lamont>
works!
<NathanKell>
Pap: Ah I see what's going on with the NAA75-110 A-6. It's because that particular variant is actually the first "major production" variant and flew in 1957. But it's broadly identical in performance, AFAICT, to the earlier (1954-56 ones). And indeed the A-5 was the first tried with Hydyne.
<NathanKell>
So I think we might want to just remove the model designation entirely and just go with "Ethalox" and "Hydyne-LOX" as the model names
<NathanKell>
lamont: Great!
<Agathorn>
my ui flow is starting to get confusing and hard to follow :(
<Agathorn>
especially given that a lot of time you have to hand off and wait for the user to do something before you can continue, which means a separate method callback
<Agathorn>
so something like saving a stage ends up broken into 3 or 4 functions :(
<Agathorn>
and now i'm running into issue where the logic is in the wrong spot!
<lamont>
does TF research carry over from lower tech engines to higher tech in the same model?
<Agathorn>
if the engine is configured for tech transfer then some of it will carry over and be applied **the first time** you fly the new engine
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<regex>
I look forward to the day when players scream your name like Shatner screams at Montalban.
<Agathorn>
I've seen it happen already..in IRC anyway
<Agathorn>
in videos i've seen though most everyone takes it like a champ
<Agathorn>
Haven't seen any table flips yet :)
<regex>
lol
<regex>
That's the real treat.
<Agathorn>
I think most people playing RO and using TF are too "pro" for that
<Agathorn>
I mean who intentionally adds a mod that can cause loos of mission then flips out when it causes loss of mission :)
<Agathorn>
what I enjoyed was building in redundancy and then achieving the mission despite failures :)
<xShadowx>
BUT BUT you haz to build doubles of every part and and its just a roll of dice and pointless!
<xShadowx>
:P
<Agathorn>
I built rockets that could continue even with faiklures
<xShadowx>
and secondary missions
<Agathorn>
My workhorse rocket in my last major playthrough once put a satellite in its proper orbit despite two different failures in two different stages during ascent
<Agathorn>
it just means not designing a rocket with razonr thin margins .. now some people enjoy that.. but I really enjoyed still achieving mission success even after major failures :)
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<lamont>
“RD-101 failed: Loss of Thrust”
<lamont>
AAAAAAAAAAGATHOOOOOOORRRRRNNNNN
<lamont>
kinda like that?
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<regex>
hahaha
<avi>
question: do I still need any startup flags to make sure KSP runs a) in 64-bit mode b) with the latest graphics API?
<avi>
(it's been quite a while since I've spent more than a few minutes in it)
<regex>
run the x64 exe
<regex>
no flags, IIRC.
<acc>
nah, just make sure to run the 64... yeah, what regex says
<regex>
at least here on Win10
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<avi>
yeah, I'm on Win10 with Steam
<avi>
and I recently saw that RSSVE seems to be working again, and because I am a shallow person, that has prompted me to try to get back into KSP
<avi>
also, btw, is activetexturemanagement still a thing, or have updates made it unnecessary?
<avi>
certainly, now that I'm on 64 bit, it isn't as essential
<lamont>
believe that is not a thing
<acc>
no ATM anymore since quite a while
<lamont>
according to the forums it is esentially just baked-in now
<avi>
okay, that's good news
<avi>
you can see my knowledge is a bit dated
<lamont>
yeah i think in the 1.1/1.2 era all those texture memory mods were rendered unnecessary
<avi>
awesome, and yeah, that's basically when I wasn't playing much
<avi>
I did a lot during beta, and then the launch broke every mod and so I didn't really come back to it, but it looks like RO is in decent shape right now
<avi>
and also I've basically done everyting on WoW I am going to without joining a raiding guild
<avi>
except that KSP crashes now :/
<avi>
the last things in the log are failures to compile parts for AJE because the firespitter parts don't exist
<avi>
error.log basically just tells me there's been a segfault and then core dumps
<avi>
oh, of course, verison 1.3 just came out and every mod is 1.2.*. I joined at just the wrong time
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<xShadowx>
RO is only 1.2.2 and will be for a while
<lamont>
(he left)
* xShadowx
headdesk
<lamont>
yep, and he last played long before squad let you download old versions so probably assumes he’s just hosed…
<acc>
what? no more old versions?
<lamont>
you can still download 1.1.3 and 1.2.2 from steam — but he likely doesn’t know that
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<NathanKell>
o/
<rsparkyc1>
\o
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<NathanKell>
o/ rsparkyc
<rsparkyc>
NathanKell, you now have a date for lunar impact
<NathanKell>
Agathorn: Interestingly, the planned upgrade for the E-1 was even _more_ OP than what I speculated it might be for the speculative upgrade
<NathanKell>
rsparkyc: \o/
<rsparkyc>
it's far enough out, i'm sure you'll get it
<rsparkyc>
i still used principia
<NathanKell>
So...do I try to beat it, or retake the lead after and get some moolah?
<NathanKell>
rsparkyc: Wow, kudos--how did you get around the probe issue?
<NathanKell>
Use a different probe?
<rsparkyc>
there's a few things you can do
<rsparkyc>
1) you can disable that fairing piece
<rsparkyc>
(i did that for orbit)
<rsparkyc>
2) for the moon, i used procedural avionics
<rsparkyc>
it's had an equivalent for the early controllable probe
<rsparkyc>
i need to update procedural avionics to have unlock costs like engine upgrades do
<NathanKell>
ah, I meant the 20in Xray--the early controllable core should be fine, no?
<NathanKell>
and, uh, yeah, you kinda do or it's crazy OP :]
<rsparkyc>
yeah, for the 20 in, you can right click in the vab and disable the decoupler part
<NathanKell>
Ah, very smart!
<NathanKell>
Nothing else bugged out I take it?
<rsparkyc>
i heard principia had a hard time with actual soft landings on the moon
<rsparkyc>
so that may become an issue for me
<rsparkyc>
other than that, no
<NathanKell>
Ah, ok. Well, if you don't mind I miiiiight just let you be guinea pig for a bit :]
<rsparkyc>
haha, no prob
<NathanKell>
Though I for one am 100% fine with you reverting/savescumming if that proves to be a bug
<rsparkyc>
yeah, we'll see what happens when we get there
<rsparkyc>
as for me, time for bed
<rsparkyc>
night all
<NathanKell>
o/
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<rsparkyc>
i just remembered: one more bug
<rsparkyc>
my fairings sometimes get messed up on physics init
<rsparkyc>
they'll get all misalligned and stuff
<NathanKell>
Hmm
<rsparkyc>
best way i found around that is go to the pad, then exit to space center before physics init
<NathanKell>
They're independent parts, but it's possible proc fairings parents them or something
<rsparkyc>
then go back to your vessel on the pad
<NathanKell>
kk
<rsparkyc>
so: if you see that, maybe try it
<NathanKell>
o7
<rsparkyc>
or maybe i have a bad install, who knows :)
<rsparkyc>
ok, actually time for bed, later!
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<NathanKell>
tfw your own post is in the google results when you're googling >.>
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<xShadowx>
:)
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<xShadowx>
NathanKell: traveling to the moon without us?^.^
<NathanKell>
no just doing my usual thing of LV design
<NathanKell>
beds tho
<NathanKell>
o/
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<xShadowx>
but bed has no LVs
<xShadowx>
bed boring ;p
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<Rokker>
WHO IS AWAKE
<Rokker>
xShadowx: you?
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* UmbralRaptor
stares at Rokker.
<Rokker>
UmbralRaptor: i wanted to show them the now scrubbed rocket
<UmbralRaptor>
Did you use a brillo pad?
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<soundnfury>
!tell rsparkyc Nice! I think I can beat your flyby date, though I'm less sure about impact. Also, I'm not using principia so obviously it's easier for me ;)
<Qboid>
soundnfury: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<egg|df|egg>
soundnfury: ping!
<soundnfury>
egg|df|egg: ¡gnip
<egg|df|egg>
¡!
<soundnfury>
§‽
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<egg|df|egg>
does someone know whether there's a way to set the date format in RSS/RO's date display to something other than month/day/year?
<egg|df|egg>
!wpn stratochief
* Qboid
gives stratochief a tungsten telescope/polynomial hybrid
<Probus>
That's the only correct way egg|df|egg.
<HypergolicSkunk>
is it just my install, or do the RCS thrusters in the Mk1 Pod really only have 800 degrees heat tolerance and make a pod explode on reentry?
<Probus>
You don't want any of that mamby-pamby European date format, egg. :p
<Probus>
HypergolicSkunk, I haven't had that problem. I use FASA's Mercury capsule a lot though.
<Probus>
But that one has the parachute issue with Real Chutes.
<HypergolicSkunk>
that very RCS thruster that burns up and makes the craft explode also cannot be disabled in terms of staging. the icon stays. you can disable the thruster, at least.
<HypergolicSkunk>
I'm extremly low on credits, otherwise i'd buy the Mercury capsule now :p
<egg|df|egg>
Probus: do you know which mod and which bit of that mod does that, or are you just chiming in to troll
<Probus>
trolling today. Trying to catch something :)
<egg|df|egg>
!wpn Probus
* Qboid
gives Probus a dorsal cow-like trie
<egg|df|egg>
!wpn
* Qboid
gives egg|df|egg a bipolar junction projection-like cocycle
<Probus>
Geeze, you don't have to get all dorsal about it!
<egg|df|egg>
Probus: any idea what mod might be doing the date display though?
<Probus>
RSSDateTime is in my directory.
<Probus>
That looks to be the right one egg|df|egg
<egg|df|egg>
Probus: will take a look, thanks
<egg|df|egg>
ah, it uses Mono's settings, which would work except Unity ignores the computer's culture http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/139335-ksp-113-rss-datetime-formatter-v10/#comment-2570280
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] Max-Q opened pull request #1664: Fix for the NEXT ion thruster (master...master) https://git.io/vH2tN
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<CobaltWolf>
*yawn* mornin' y'all o/
<leudaimon>
o/
<CobaltWolf>
Been at the lab for a couple hours already... woke up to a call at 7 from a classmate, the media network server we were all rendering our senior films to ran out of space last night. Had to come in early to try and clear some stuff off it so the other teams can finish their renders
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<Agathorn>
Morning
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<leudaimon>
that is bizarre! I'm getting the ammount of fuel cut by half as soon as I start my engine
<leudaimon>
never had this bug before
<CobaltWolf>
@Agathorn mornin'
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<Agathorn>
CobaltWolf: did you ever get a chance to put those models together?
<CobaltWolf>
.... oops :S
<Agathorn>
Forgot all about me? :(\
<CobaltWolf>
maybe haha. Scrambling to finish senior film AND I was getting bugged to push out 1.3 patches for BDB and SEP
<xShadowx>
he was afraid you'd make a failure for them! :P
<Agathorn>
oh there will definitely be failures in ST :)
<CobaltWolf>
@Agathorn and you can't convert the .dae to .obj yourself? I can send those to you in maybe 5 minutes
<Agathorn>
one sec let me see
<Agathorn>
huh actually yeah I think I can
<Agathorn>
Or at least, Collada is in the import window in Modo so I assume it will work unless there is a version issue or something..worth a try
<CobaltWolf>
<3 modo
<Agathorn>
yeah me too but I use the Indie version which has some resrtrictions and didn't think it would have the full import options
<CobaltWolf>
oh, here see if you can grab them from that. Try the engine or something, see if it imports http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/161526-cobalts-guide-to-how-to-texture-good-and-other-life-advice/
<Agathorn>
cool looks to import.. I randoml;y just grabbed the Able engine.. no texture because that seems to be looking for some PSD on your C drive but thats ok, don't need it really
<Agathorn>
hehe thats kind of why I use Dropbox bnecause I have some insane amount of storage with it
<CobaltWolf>
the textures are all in that folder
<Agathorn>
looks good...maybe a tad slower with the passes
<CobaltWolf>
tbh I can just reencode it at 24 FPS :P
<Agathorn>
:)
<CobaltWolf>
but yeah that shot is basically 100% my work, only thing I didn't do was model those asteroids in Zbrush.
<CobaltWolf>
oh, and the particle sims for the engines and the sparks
<CobaltWolf>
but I did all the modeling for the ship, ALL the texturing, the animation, lighting, and compositing
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<xShadowx>
Agathorn: TF > failure happens > touch ScreenMessages class > big rec/orange flash FAILURE text hahah
<xShadowx>
red/orange*
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<soundnfury>
egg: if you do figure out how to fix that m/d/y shit, ping me
<soundnfury>
'cos it drives me nuts
<soundnfury>
rsparkyc: holy shit you did GEO...
<lamont>
wonder if agathorn is gonna burn me on this contract…
<rsparkyc>
soundnfury i used my same craft for lunar impactor for that
<soundnfury>
rsparkyc: which is? (or aren't you telling ;)
<rsparkyc>
haha, i can post it
<soundnfury>
(inb4 NK uses R7/Luna for his)
<rsparkyc>
though i sorta realized i feel like i'm cheating, since i'm using procedural avionics
<rsparkyc>
there's no unlock cost for new tech on that...
<rsparkyc>
so i need to add that
<Agathorn>
The Date format in RSSDateFormatter should use your local format as set in the OS
<Agathorn>
is it not?
<soundnfury>
yeah, but in the meantime, we all have it available, I don't think it's cheating
<Agathorn>
soundnfury: ^
<rsparkyc>
plus, with principia, you don't need to upgrade the tracking station, so for the moon i was able to use principia's node editor
<rsparkyc>
other than that, i only reverted for legitimate bugs
<soundnfury>
Agathorn: my locale LC_TIME is set to en_GB.UTF-8
<soundnfury>
"date +%x" gives me 03/06/17
<Agathorn>
is that a no? :)
<soundnfury>
so I'm fairly sure my system is set for proper lendian dates
<Agathorn>
ok maybe I misunderstood what I was doing
<Agathorn>
althouigh alos bear in mind that the date is formatted differently in different spots as per KSP
<rsparkyc>
ok, so i want to create a window like we have for engine configs to unlock new tech for procedural avionics, what mod actually controls that?
<rsparkyc>
SolverEngines?
<Agathorn>
for the main PrintDate I have the format set to use {0:d} which according tot he DateTime docs I thought would use the local OS formatting
<Agathorn>
"The "d" standard format specifier represents a custom date and time format string that is defined by a specific culture's DateTimeFormatInfo.ShortDatePattern property."
<Agathorn>
unless perhaps Mono ignores that and just uses InvariantCulture all the time?
<Agathorn>
thats sadly a possability
<Agathorn>
soundnfury: I originally didin't provide any options because I didn't want to mess with making a setting UI
<Agathorn>
I could maybe throw somethign quick together using a text based config though
<Agathorn>
then again people like you and egg you probablty very easily modify the code and recompile :p
<Agathorn>
it isn't exactly a huge mod lol
<leudaimon>
rsparkyc, isn't that realfuels?
<rsparkyc>
i figured that just was for the tanks
<soundnfury>
also rsparkyc I don't need to upgrade the tracking station either, because konrad
<soundnfury>
(which is basically like principia's node planner but with fewer, crappier integrators ;)
<Agathorn>
I liked the idea of it but the data and how to use it never clicked with me
<Agathorn>
Too stupid I guess
<soundnfury>
rsparkyc: I know, it's 'cos my server-laptop died
<soundnfury>
Agathorn: it's certainly not user-friendly
<Agathorn>
!tell egg RSSTimeFormatter uses the string format that is supposed to use the local cultrue for date display, but it appears that doesn't work and perhaps Unity always uses Invariant culture. Sorry about that, I didn't know
<Qboid>
Agathorn: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Agathorn>
!tell egg I'll see about maybe making a settings option for it in the future
<Qboid>
Agathorn: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<soundnfury>
right, time to fly my second moonshot
<soundnfury>
bet you it gets 'thorned
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<Starwaster>
I wonder if it's possible to make Kerbals just ragdoll instead of going *POOF* when they die....
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<xShadowx>
it is
<xShadowx>
drop one into the ground hard enough
<soundnfury>
Yup, upper stage AJ10-142 got 'thorned. Loss of thrust, then shutdown.
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<soundnfury>
ah well, used the kick stage to turn it into a science satellite, at least I'm getting something out of it.
<Starwaster>
The human body has a specific heat of 3500 J/kg*K
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<Agathorn>
loss of thrust AND shutdown? Did you run them past rated time?
<leudaimon>
Agathorn, given loss of thrust increases burn time, it usually results in shutdown, doesn't it?
<Agathorn>
well that really depends
<Agathorn>
if you designed the rocket with it right against the edge of the burn time, and you keep pushing it through, then yeah likely
<Agathorn>
but if you shutdown manually and stage, no.. or if you give yourself some margin in design
<soundnfury>
Agathorn: but shutting down manually gains me nothing. Running it until it dies might
<Agathorn>
certainl;y
<Agathorn>
just saying to get both failures implies you went past the burn time
<Agathorn>
That's all :)
<soundnfury>
Agathorn: sure. Actually, I think I was redlining it a tad _anyway_
<soundnfury>
so, I'm not actually cross with you. I'm cross with me ;)
<Agathorn>
:)
<leudaimon>
I'm trying to design my low tech moon impactor, and am pretty afraid of you Agathorn
<Agathorn>
so much love :(
<leudaimon>
lol
<leudaimon>
it's a crazy contraption, but I'm trying to stay at most 3-5s above rated burn times
<Agathorn>
ouch
<leudaimon>
the rd-103M is well within, otherwise I wont't have TWR
<leudaimon>
problem is the pair of AJ-10 in the second stage and pair of XSR-1s on the third
<Agathorn>
I'd suggest having either a hotkey to shut down the engines in case of unsymmetrical failure, or a small kOS script to cut the other half in same
<leudaimon>
yeah, makes sense
<leudaimon>
i'm first simulating if I can get to orbit without failures
<leudaimon>
margins are tight
<Agathorn>
did KRASH update with the feature to disable failures?
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<leudaimon>
nope, but I disable in the TF interface
<Agathorn>
hmm that works ok? It weas never really designed to toggle back and forth in the middle of a save game
<Agathorn>
was more just for perm disabling for sandbox games
SirKeplan is now known as SirKeplan|AFK
<leudaimon>
apparenty works
<leudaimon>
as I disable during the simulation, when it finishes it's still enabled in the "real" game
<leudaimon>
if I manage to do it first try I might be first on the moon
<Starwaster>
what, is there a space race going?
<xShadowx>
ya and everyone is stealing NK's glory to first because his rocket ripped over first flight :P
<soundnfury>
dang, despite two successful launches I haven't yet gotten near enough to the moon. May have to use a guided probe
<xShadowx>
s/ripped/tipped
<Qboid>
xShadowx meant to say: ya and everyone is stealing NK's glory to first because his rocket tipped over first flight :P
<leudaimon>
\o/ I'm in orbit! just need to burn the solids correctly now soundnfury
<leudaimon>
Agathorn, you behaved! I can't even believe
<Agathorn>
:)
<Agathorn>
xShadowx: was this last nights stream?
<Agathorn>
missed that one
<xShadowx>
Agathorn: no his first first rocket ripped, lost i think 7 days?:|
<xShadowx>
tipped
<xShadowx>
wedgaertgeryaerye
<Agathorn>
oh very first
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: wait, you're launching moonshots at y1d240? You've got me beat if you succeed, Nathan too probably
<xShadowx>
YA :|
<Agathorn>
missed that one too :)
<xShadowx>
it was kinda funny but also sad :(
<xShadowx>
speaking of which......need launch clamp failures
<leudaimon>
:)
<leudaimon>
yep soundnfury!
<leudaimon>
I must gather my screeshots to share with you guys
<leudaimon>
derp, I forgot to add the tracking station I put in a PR into my game... if the maneuver were 3-4 minutes earlier I would be with no connection
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<leudaimon>
damn, spin stabilization didn't work well enough
<leudaimon>
the second baby sargent burn went crazy
<soundnfury>
dang, these kick stages keep giving more dV than konrad says they should. Either that or my integrator's errors are just too big. Either way we keep overshooting
<leudaimon>
my luna2 will have a liquid TLI stage... found out it doesn't make difference in weight
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<NathanKell>
o/
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<NathanKell>
what's this about holycrapthat'searly :D
<NathanKell>
leudaimon: It's Saturn Nova Textures on CKAN, IIRC
<NathanKell>
I probably should change the name in the modlist
<lamont>
mass: -39.37kg
<lamont>
^ proc avionics may not be entirely balanced
<lamont>
percent utilization: 1441.9%
SirKeplan|AFK is now known as SirKeplan
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: on R-7/Luna..aaaaactually :]
<NathanKell>
I think I'm going to make a US R-7
<leudaimon>
weird lamont, it should be capped at 200%
<NathanKell>
I can get 7.5t to LEO with it, using only the tech I have plus Basic Avionics
<NathanKell>
And I won't be locked into the (comparatively upgradeless) RD-107/8 line
<NathanKell>
(they would give me 8/8.5t tho)
<NathanKell>
If I get balloon tanks I can probably do 8+ on US engines, for a price
<NathanKell>
(it's already 10k/launch)
<leudaimon>
wth, when I changed SOI the camera keeps rotating
<leudaimon>
ok, nvm... solved itself
<NathanKell>
rsparkyc: SolverEngines is basically an abstract class in DLL form. It's a basis for the engine modules themselves, not the GUIs or how the engine modules actually perform
<rsparkyc>
yeah, looks like its in RealFuels
<NathanKell>
yep
<rsparkyc>
lamont, what did you do?
<lamont>
just shrank it down to the smallest it goes
<lamont>
still supports 15t at negative mass
<leudaimon>
the amount of science you get on moderate is ridiculous
<soundnfury>
rsparkyc: yeah I noticed that too. When you shrink the part, because the minimum tonnage is capped,
<soundnfury>
it goes way past 200% util.
<rsparkyc>
ahh, hmm
<soundnfury>
DAMN!
<rsparkyc>
i would have to try to rescale the part up if that happens
<soundnfury>
My Agena died :(
<NathanKell>
man, you know what I just realized? This feels like the Wonder race in early Civ games
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: heh, true
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: Ohnoes! You're having some baaad luck
<soundnfury>
I _really_ hope one of the two LVs I've got in the VAB now makes the Moon, or my career is DITW
<NathanKell>
You can't say grind without grrr
<Olympic1>
It is already updated for the 1.2 version
<soundnfury>
(I kept punching Rush Build, thinking "the next one will surely work".)
<NathanKell>
Olympic1: Ah k. I was skeeeered after I mis-merged your RP-0 one :D
<NathanKell>
Olympic1: I'll merge it in
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 3 new commits to master: https://git.io/vH22w
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master 3a66482 NathanKell: Merge pull request #1648 from Olympic1/Netkan...
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master 146540e Arne Peirs: Update netkans
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master 0fc7f50 Arne Peirs: Add new mods
<Olympic1>
thx. The RP-0 one is only for AFTER the 1.2/1.3 update
<NathanKell>
yep
<soundnfury>
ah but mission control is about to upgrade, so I'll be able to suck in more advances
<rsparkyc>
does anyone want to make procedural avionics work like engine configs?
<rsparkyc>
because i'm feeling really lazy
<NathanKell>
Just use PartUpgrades
<NathanKell>
that's what RF needs to be ported to anyway
<NathanKell>
means you can do 90% of it in cfg
<rsparkyc>
If you use PartUpgrades, can you go back to a previous version?
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<NathanKell>
Um, not unless you handle it that way in your code
<NathanKell>
so yeah I guess you need the swappy interface anyway
<rsparkyc>
ok, i guess i'll find some time to put it together eventually, i gotta run meet with a potential client now
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<rsparkyc>
which may cut into my ksp time, but we'll se
<rsparkyc>
later all
<NathanKell>
o/
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<NathanKell>
leudaimon so what's this about lunar flybies in late 1951? :]
<Agathorn>
afternoon
<NathanKell>
heya
<leudaimon>
so NathanKell, My LV is RD103M, double AJ-10, double XSR-1
<Agathorn>
SpaceX scrubby again?
<Agathorn>
or did I miss irt cxompletely
<Agathorn>
damn I think I had my time wrong
<NathanKell>
landed fine
<NathanKell>
not sure if Dragon's sep'd tho yet
<Agathorn>
yeah I had the launch time wrong :(
<NathanKell>
leudaimon: Ah, yeah. Should be quite viable.
<NathanKell>
Sinking money into building upgrades early and BPs and makes perfect sense
<NathanKell>
leudaimon: Hope you have/had better luck than I did in my tutorial campaign :)
<NathanKell>
(IIRC that was about 6-7 launches)
<leudaimon>
tried a TLI stage with baby sargeants 3 then 1, but the second baby lost its way and I just got a change of SOI
<leudaimon>
trying with a small XSR1 liquid stage for TLI now
<NathanKell>
Yeah, I did it with sergeants in the tut campaign
<leudaimon>
the weight is basically the same
<NathanKell>
RD-103M, 1x AJ10, sergenats
<leudaimon>
IIRC you were trying direct ascent, right?
<NathanKell>
IIRC it had 4km/s+ on the sergeants so I couldn't park
<leudaimon>
I don't have that ability
<leudaimon>
went for a parking orbit with 3 stages
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: I'm currently on moonshot number 6
<NathanKell>
much saner. And means you can launch every day not every month
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: :(
<leudaimon>
for this second launch I have a default tank on the RD103M, so I might get to orbit without freaking out
<NathanKell>
good luck!
<lamont>
are pad upgrades science rate or BP rate?
<NathanKell>
and to you too leudaimon
<NathanKell>
lamont: BP
<NathanKell>
buildings cost money, so BP
<lamont>
based on the BP/s of all the pads at the launch site?
<NathanKell>
based on the BP/s of all the VAB tiers IIRC
<NathanKell>
(but maybe just the first--I forget)
<NathanKell>
pads don't have BP
<NathanKell>
VAB/SPH do
<NathanKell>
Ah, maybe it combines SPH BP too
<lamont>
i thought you had to spend point on 2nd launch pads to bring them up
<Agathorn>
the shape of the F9 exhasut during entry burn is very interesting
<NathanKell>
lamont: Nope, upgrade VAB
<NathanKell>
pads mean you can have mutliple rolling/rolled out at once
<soundnfury>
nope, overcompensated, this one underperformed and only goes to Ap=180Mm. Which given all the others went to like 500Mm, is getting frustrating.
<soundnfury>
soundnfury cannot into space :(
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|Twitch
<NathanKell|Twitch>
soundnfury: :\
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Fire someone? Perhaps atop a rocket?
<soundnfury>
NathanKell|Twitch: got no-one to blame but myself
<egg>
Agathorn: thanks :-)
<egg>
(I got the messages in another channel)
<egg>
!wpn Sarbian
* Qboid
gives Sarbian a meccano solution/router hybrid
<egg>
Agathorn: and yeah, I saw NathanKell|Twitch's message that it used the standard libs (and I have myself run into Unity's stupid reassignment of the CurrentCulture)
<Agathorn>
I didn't see his comment
* Agathorn
scrolls back
<egg>
twas on the fora
<Agathorn>
oh
<Agathorn>
linky?
<Agathorn>
I generally don't visit the forum much
<egg>
the link is in the scrollback, someone else complaining about the date format a while ago
<egg>
Agathorn: I'd gladly contribute a patch to add a cfg setting or somesuch, but I'm drowning in principia bugs right now
<egg>
also my day job
<egg>
(yay I haz a job)
<Agathorn>
yeah and i'm trying to work a day job and build a game on my spare time :)
<leudaimon>
what a noob! I forgot ullage for the TLI stage
Agathorn is now known as Agathorn|Food
<egg>
Agathorn|Food: basically same here :-p
<egg>
(I mean, principia isn't a standalone game, but we *are* working on adding our own rendering code)
<Agathorn|Food>
its certainly a large project no doubt
<egg>
(yes there's a good reason for it, but still, it does a whole lot of things from the physics to the rendering :-p)
<Agathorn|Food>
I'm almost doing the opposite
<egg>
speaking of which, once more unto the principia#1421
<Qboid>
[#1421] title: Child transforms move on load flight state with RSS | This (a) may be a duplicate of the Proc SRB Bell issue, if that's been reported, and (b) may be an issue, albeit smaller, with stock size systems (why would I touch stock, so I don't know).... | https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/principia/issues/1421
<Agathorn|Food>
making a space game but keeping the physics to almost nil :p
* egg
draws sword
<Agathorn|Food>
(because I no haz maths)
* xShadowx
stabs Agathorn with an egg
<Agathorn|Food>
anyway need to order some food before I die
<egg>
Agathorn|Food: maths are fun, if you want to be drowned in them ask a question in #kspacademia
<Agathorn|Food>
That doesn't look like a robin's egg :)
<egg>
hah
<egg>
robin is just my name, that doesn't mean I'm a robin egg though :-p
<xShadowx>
hes a goose egg
<egg>
(also that's the only kind of egg I had lying around when Majiir said that)
<Agathorn|Food>
^ Is what I figured
<Agathorn|Food>
didn't expect you to go steal some poor bird's egg for a picture
<Agathorn|Food>
or else..you monster
<egg>
Agathorn|Food: well I could have had quail eggs lying around in the fridge, or duck eggs; robin... implausible
<egg>
Agathorn|Food: american robin even more, but the red-breasted kind is easily found around here
<egg>
Agathorn|Food: anyway, thanks for considering that date format issue; do you want me to open a github issue to track it, or is it ok for you if you keep track of it yourself?
<Agathorn|Food>
you can open an issue yeah
<egg>
ok, will do
<Agathorn|Food>
will try to sneak it in one day when i'm bored at work :)
<Agathorn|Food>
given my boss is away this week thats actually good timing
<egg>
I certainly do look at principia bugs when there are lulls in the i18n chaos :D
* egg
works on YouTube i18n
<Agathorn|Food>
no idea what that is
<egg>
internationalization
<egg>
for YouTube
<egg>
(it's a video thing :-p)
<Agathorn|Food>
:p
<egg>
Agathorn|Food: KSP-RO/RSSTimeFormatter#2
<Qboid>
[#2] title: Configurable date format | As discussed on IRC, this mod uses the standard date formatting libraries with (implicitly) the `CurrentCulture`, but sadly Unity overwrites the `CurrentCulture` so that this does not properly get localized for those of us who cannot make sense of month/day/year and the like.... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RSSTimeFormatter/issues/2
<acc>
ahoy hoy
<soundnfury>
moonshot number 7(? I think?) now in orbit. I finally caved and built one with a trim stage
<egg>
acc: groot!
<acc>
hey magic handed egg
<egg>
:D
<acc>
how are things goin?
* egg
plonks Iskierka's lute
<egg>
acc: gut
<acc>
good :)
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<egg>
acc: Principia has new releases every new moon now :D
<acc>
oh, nice. how so?
<egg>
well, we just cut the release every new moon
<egg>
with whatever we have
<acc>
yeah, why not
<egg>
instead of planning to have features in the next release and then releasing when we're done, which sometimes takes 8 months :-p