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<Bornholio>
so i can duplicate it upgrading from level 4 to 5 R&D as soon as it completes i start gaining 1.2mill per tick
<Pap>
So it might be that KCT can only handle 4 levels of building as of right now
<Pap>
Does anyone know what the first Polar Orbiting satelltie was?
<Bornholio>
Polar-orbiting Satellites: The First to be Launched. The world's first meteorological satellite was launched from Cape Canaveral on April 1, 1960. ... The last two TIROS were the first polar-orbiting meteorological satellites
<Bornholio>
DB does not like my log at 277mb that bug fills it with KCT spam
<Bornholio>
KCT settings are save outside the indiviual save
<Bornholio>
pap is there an issue open for this KCT upgrade problem?
<Bornholio>
Pap i put up an issue for the Upgrade bug, my logs are in the comments just a bunch of KCT Spam for bagillions of lines. Time to start a new career!
Bornholio is now known as Born|toParty
<Rokker>
we need to start launching polar from the cape again
<Rokker>
because screw cuba
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<Pap>
!tell NathanKell|WORK I have some bad news about the new upgrade tiers, they are not registering correctly
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* It would appear taht the new building tiers are not working correctly. Will discuss when you are around
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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NathanKell|AWAY is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [26.06.2017 12:13:43]: "where's this dev branch I should be switching to? Or do you want me to just make one?"
<Qboid>
NathanKell: lamont left a message for you in #RO [26.06.2017 19:53:44]: "you found a good example of terminal guidance wiggles"
<Qboid>
NathanKell: Pap left a message for you in #RO [27.06.2017 01:00:19]: "It would appear taht the new building tiers are not working correctly. Will discuss when you are around"
<Pap>
o/
<NathanKell>
lamont: Surely about the same as Atlas?
<NathanKell>
Pap: Not working how?
<Pap>
So, I upgraded to the 40t launch pad, but in the VAB, I was albe to create and launch a craft up to 320 tons
<NathanKell>
...that's weird
<NathanKell>
I think we have to test sans KCT to see if things work stock
Born|toParty is now known as Bornholio
<NathanKell>
if not, it's JPLRepo's problem now :D If so, it's magico's
<NathanKell>
well, or sarbs, but I looked at his code and it looks sane
<Qboid>
[#708] title: KCT R&D upgrade from level 4 to level 5 induces KCT to cycle repeated upgrade downgrades | Still adding details<><><><><><><><><>... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/708
<taniwha>
NathanKell: though I left a tell for him, my apologies to blowfish: I was blind last night and did not see his KSP_1.3 branch, otherwise I would have merged my stuff with it
<taniwha>
I blame tiredness (way past when I should have gone to bed) and having had trouble getting github to work on my laptop
<taniwha>
(had the changes there)
<NathanKell>
ah, it happens, I'm sure it's ok :)
<NathanKell>
I think we need to test sans KCT definitely, ensure just the CBK config works
<NathanKell>
does it still occur if KCT is disabled for the save, but installed?
<NathanKell>
try letting all nodes finish researching and then disable KCT and try upgrading the building
<NathanKell>
(or, not finish researching, cancel them all to get the science back)
<NathanKell>
lamont: Is there an update or still that release?
<NathanKell>
I wanna play with it more :D
<taniwha>
wow, pimsleur is /good/
<taniwha>
used it when learning Japanese, just got it for Russian. went from "huh" for lesson 1 to "yup, I understood that" for the beginning of lesson 2 :)
<NathanKell>
\o/
<Bornholio>
used it for my trips to japan
<taniwha>
used their techniques when teaching english here, too :)
<lamont>
i can cut you an update but the edit box for apoapsis that isn’t wired up to anything might make you sad..
<NathanKell>
I'll be fine :)
<NathanKell>
please do cut it
<NathanKell>
For that kind of orbit I can turn RSS/RO special handling on and disengage the AP before circ and just burn prograde
<taniwha>
NathanKell: Early Bird is 1.2/1.3 agnostic
<taniwha>
same dll works in either
<taniwha>
(just tested)
<NathanKell>
coolz!
<taniwha>
released 0.1.1 last night, too
<taniwha>
I'll update the thread title to indicate that
<NathanKell>
Pap, Bornholio: Testing rocket building now with KCT disabled, we'll see (tm)
<Bornholio>
\o/
<NathanKell>
Bornholio, Pap: Merely disabling KCT ingame (unset 'Mod Enabled') solves the issues you both describe. It seems fairly clearly a KCT problem. :\
<Pap>
ah, damn
<lamont>
i just rubbed a little vis viva onto it and should have functioning apoapsis control soon
<taniwha>
vis viva is the good sauce :)
<NathanKell>
I'll make a combined issue on the KCT repo I guess?
<NathanKell>
Pap: Is the pad bug described anywhere?
<taniwha>
bakes in well
<Pap>
No it is not, I just found it out in a REAL quick test
<lamont>
should be able to insert at other true anomalies fairly easily as well
<NathanKell>
\o/
<NathanKell>
Pap: I had noticed it myself but hadn't thought much of it
<Pap>
I didn't either until I realized the 40t craft I was building was 56t
<Bornholio>
So is CBK inducing the problem in kCT? or RP-0 configs
<taniwha>
lamont: mixing vis viva, the conic radial equation, and a bit of implicit differentiation results a a surprisingly simple equation for the velocity vector at any true anomaly :)
<NathanKell>
Oh huh. I wonder.
<NathanKell>
Does someone have a non-dev RP-0 install? Can they check if KCT, with multiple pads, only uses the higher limit?
<lamont>
or i could build an Orbit object and be lazy…
<taniwha>
KCT just would not work for me the other night
<taniwha>
lamont: heheh :)
<taniwha>
lamont: I imagine you've been looking at Orbit. that's where the vel vector comes from :)
<taniwha>
(ie, that above concoction)
<Bornholio>
ok non-dev RP-0 install, what mods on/not on it
<taniwha>
now, if only there was pimsleur quenya ;)
<Bornholio>
Magico13 did not seem to fond of supporting switcher
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<Ram>
hi
Ram is now known as Guest94389
<Pap>
hi
<Guest94389>
how can Ram be already used in this chanel :(
<Guest94389>
anyway I have a quick question maybe it is a bug, then I won't keep trying for hours
<NathanKell>
Upgrading the pad also goes to ifininte
<NathanKell>
infinite monies*
<Guest94389>
I am trying to do the Early Communications Network (4 satellites) mission and I have 5 sats up now only one of them is picking up
<Guest94389>
the others are still saying (TBD)
<taniwha>
Guest94389: as for "ram": it's a fairly big irc network, not just this channel, so getting a short name is up to luck
<Bornholio>
they are not meeting one or more of the requirements
<NathanKell>
Bornholio, Pap: Yep, any building upgrading past 4 causes the bug.
<NathanKell>
Ouch.
<taniwha>
Guest94389: antennas set properly?
<Guest94389>
do they have to be in the specific same order they were launched? to meet the "direct connection to" ?
<taniwha>
(sorry, I don't know much. I'm here just for mod support)
<taniwha>
(and hanging out with some friends)
<Bornholio>
no, they just have to meet the each requirement, go to each and check that that one has all met
<Guest94389>
ha really is it cause I can't have a direct connection with omni antenas?
<Guest94389>
pls no fml
<Bornholio>
ok build level 2 pad in cape, went to wallops and it wont let me build above 40t, as expected
<Bornholio>
you can have direct with omnis if they have the range
<NathanKell>
Bornholio: That's not expected
<NathanKell>
oh wait you mean in existing-RP0?
<Guest94389>
they are in range and the line is traced
<NathanKell>
not techtree-RP0?
<Bornholio>
yes nathankell
<NathanKell>
ah ok
<NathanKell>
then yes it's our using >4 tiers, looks like
<Bornholio>
guest is any other requirement not met for each?
<Bornholio>
you could post a screenshot and link it in here
<NathanKell>
I am happy to report, Bornholio, Pap, that if you backup your whole save folder before encountering the bug, restoring the whole folder fixes it. Well, assuming you had saved before upgrading anything to 5.
<Bornholio>
lol
<Bornholio>
scrub new install yeah for testing
<acharles>
Is this bug something I should try to avoid?
<Bornholio>
upgrading to level 5 is not freindly in KSC buildings
<NathanKell>
yes, because it destroys your save.
<NathanKell>
^
<NathanKell>
so you can only play the tech tree up through level 4 buildings
<acharles>
Ok, don’t upgrade buildings, got it :P
<NathanKell>
...
<acharles>
Joking
<NathanKell>
:)
<NathanKell>
Hopefully magico makes a fix soon
<acharles>
Which buildings even go up to 5?
<acharles>
I think my pad is up to 3?
<Bornholio>
R&D was what broke for me
<NathanKell>
Pad and R&D
<NathanKell>
(and runway but no one uses that)
<Bornholio>
quick config fix refactor before a new build?
<acharles>
Well, I guess I’ll stop at 4
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<acharles>
Perhaps it’s a sign that having a sense of progression is bad? :P
<acharles>
Pap: I replied to your reply on github.
<Guest94389>
yea thanks it is the excentricity that was not refined enough, so the contract system is not even considering that satellite until that orbit is set
<NathanKell>
aha
<NathanKell>
good luck! :)
<Bornholio>
good deal. little rcs work and you should have it :)
<Guest94389>
yea im all good I have 18 m/s left on that one :D
<rsparkyc>
o/
<Guest94389>
on a 10.3 km/s budget :D
<rsparkyc>
!tell leudaimon when you use tell, don't add spaces after the comma, otherwise not everyone will get the message
<Qboid>
rsparkyc: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Bornholio>
i'm sloppy i always do a couple hundred extra dV
<rsparkyc>
!tell leudaimon and i'm going to make it so you can add and remove science containers on the fly, but that might not make it into pre-1.3 releases
<Qboid>
rsparkyc: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<acharles>
My first attempt at orbit with the new tree got Agathorned, via A-9 shutdown just after launch.
<JPLRepo>
o/ S'up? a problem with upgrades or somethin'?
<NathanKell>
JPLRepo: Turns out it's just KCT at fault
<JPLRepo>
<Phew>
<NathanKell>
Although if you have a sec you could check if I made the facility right-click 'upgrade' button a delegate so magico could override it. I thought I did, but I can't remember :\
<Qboid>
[#156] title: Issues with extra building levels | For the save-destroying update of RP-0 we've added way more building levels via CBK.... | https://github.com/magico13/KCT/issues/156
<NathanKell>
turns out KCT gives you infinite money if you upgrade past level 4 :D
<Bornholio>
shall i close 708 in RP-0 then?
<NathanKell>
Close it in favor of KCT:156, yeah
<Bornholio>
and logs spam like no other
<lamont>
184.996km x 1.00095Mm
<acharles>
I thought it broke your save… infinite money seems like indefinitely unbreaking your save. :P
<Guest94389>
I am having a small but annoying issue with my ksp ro install, anyone heard of game hang at precise interval for maybe half a second every couple seconds
<acharles>
Guest94389: Yeah, it’s called Garbage Collection.
<acharles>
The crutch of noob programmers the world over. :P
<Guest94389>
any fix?
<Bornholio>
one mod MemGraph will let you increase the time but not eliminate it
<JPLRepo>
NathanKell: No they aren't.
<acharles>
play a different game? Or more seriously, restart, depending on how long you’ve been running.
<Bornholio>
reduce the number of craft you have in space also
<acharles>
it tends to get worse the longer the game runs.
<taniwha>
JPLRepo: I've got one for you, too (pm)
<acharles>
But 1.2.2 doesn’t seem anywhere near as bad as 1.1.3 was.
<Guest94389>
Bornholio: ha ok makes sense I tend to let my ksp run all day since it takes about 10 minutes to load with those mods :(
<Bornholio>
yup longer it has run, more parts in space, more craft in space and more base memory used by mods worse it gets. Memgraph can make it managable, but so can reloading and craft management
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<acharles>
Yeah, don’t let KSP run all day.
<Guest94389>
:(
<Bornholio>
lol, like 8-9hours at a time!
<Guest94389>
but I am farming hours on steam, Kappa
<Guest94389>
that and I don't know how to set a nickname on IRC, such a noob
<Bornholio>
oh god seperate your play installs from steam! .pain
<Guest94389>
yea it is seperate :/ hence the Kappa
<Guest94389>
I use steam install for clean version backup
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<NathanKell>
lamont: Grabbing and trying. Think I'll stream if that's ok
<lamont>
well, you’re certainly brave...
<lamont>
go right ahead...
<taniwha>
Guest94389: why farm hours on steam?
<taniwha>
(and what is kappa?)
<Guest94389>
why not?
<acharles>
I’d only consider him brave if he’s streaming RiS to test the new PEG stuff
<Guest94389>
Kappa is a twitch.tv thing, it means light sarcasm
<ferram4>
NathanKell, incoming MechBugStream? :P
<acharles>
Guest94389: I use twitch.tv to watch people sometimes, Kappa… did I do it right?
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<Guest94389>
if you actually don't use twitch to watch people sometimes you did it right
<NathanKell|Twitch>
lamont: In a sandbox save :P
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<acharles>
Guest94389: I use twitch to watch people alot…
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Pap, Bornholio, et al: Magico's gonna look into it tomorrow, if you didn't see yet. Fingers crossed :)
<Guest94389>
haaa that too
<Bornholio>
I'm setting up a clean 1.2.2 KCT/CBK and our MM patch for it i'll get to running it in the morning and if he pushes any commits
<acharles>
NathanKell|Twitch: You’re streams are becoming the highlight of my day and I’m not sure if that’s saying something about me, you or both.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
acharles: Dawww :)
<taniwha>
acharles: join the club
<acharles>
NathanKell|Twitch, taniwha: Exactly, to both of you!
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<acc>
o/
<Pap>
hey acc
<acc>
hey Pap
<acc>
you guys cloned NathanKell, so he can work and stream at the same time? :D
<acc>
smart move
<Pap>
We determined that it would get everyone the best ROI
<acc>
true, true
<acc>
I welcome that
<acc>
heh
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<Ramh5>
/msg NickServ identify 7777
<acc>
someone needs a new password
<Ramh5>
/msg NickServ identify 7777
<Ramh5>
WTF
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<UmbralRaptor>
Oh my
<UmbralRaptor>
I, uh, was expecting that to be like hunter2.
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<acc>
:>
<Ramh5>
ok how do I identify?
<UmbralRaptor>
Ramh5: I, er, was expecting that to be like hunter2, not your actual password.
<UmbralRaptor>
Ramh5: get rid of the leading spaces in the /msg
<acc>
it was the right command. maybe there was a space before /msg ?
<Ramh5>
ok I will try
<UmbralRaptor>
Yeah, there are multiple leading spaces.
<UmbralRaptor>
Also you probably want to look into changing the password.
<acc>
yep
<Ramh5>
I just put a dummy password not like I care :D
<Ramh5>
it worked good
<UmbralRaptor>
yay
<Ramh5>
if someone want to impersonate me go right ahead :D
<Ramh5>
anyway I have a bug, tried to reload my game just to fix some of the garbage collection hangouts and it helped, but now I have lost all my contracts for some reason
<Ramh5>
as if I have no more contracts in my archives so I can now take the "launch first rocket" despite having 5 comsat in orbit just about ready to complete a huge contract I had before I reloaded
<acc>
uh
<acc>
tried to restart/reload again?
<Ramh5>
yea
<Ramh5>
same
<Ramh5>
I have 41 on 41 loaded mods as usual
<Ramh5>
everything else seems to be working
<acc>
do you have any errors in the log
<acc>
I'd expect contract configurating being not happy with something
<Ramh5>
in the console of the alt F12 menue?
<acc>
could be also a bug in cc or a interfering mod
<acc>
yes
<Pap>
Ramh5: when you load up the game, can you ALT-F11 and take a picture of the CC interface window after cliicking the + next to eh RP-0 contracts?
<Ramh5>
I have some exception:nullreferenceexception: object rerefence not set to an instance ofand object
<Ramh5>
but I always had those and dtones of them
<acc>
yeah, but NROs usually indicate that something is not working right
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<Ramh5>
perhaps but it is way too vague for me and I had that since the install or realism overhaul, maybe has to do with EVE clouds not working either
<Ramh5>
ok I am in the alt F11 menu trying to find the RP-0 contracts
<Ramh5>
the window that pop up is for scatterer anything I am doing wrong
<Ramh5>
?
<Ramh5>
ok alt F10 is the contract configurator not Alt F11 for me
<acc>
Pap :>
<Pap>
Ah, sorry, yes ALT-F10. my mistage
<Pap>
s/mistage/mistake
<Qboid>
Pap meant to say: Ah, sorry, yes ALT-F10. my mistake
<Qboid>
[#904] title: WIPTASTIC: Ascent Guidance overhaul - DO NOT MERGE | - breaks up Ascent Guidance extracting out features like tracking heading and AoA from pitch control.... | https://github.com/MuMech/MechJeb2/issues/904
<Pap>
All ears
<lamont>
but that is against KSP 1.3.x MJ
<NathanKell>
Pap: we can use scrapyard, and manually add parts to its store when they are 'manufactured'. Then we can have a massive decrease in time for building things from parts in inventory.
<Pap>
So we'd (read: you) would have to figure out how the player would trigger the "manufacturing" of lines and then those parts (would it be like an assembly line function where you could queue up multiples?) would be added to the inventory
<NathanKell>
yeah
<NathanKell>
well, would be added in x months
<Pap>
Yes, this will work
<NathanKell>
lamont: Try getting it from "this stage's burn time" instead of 120s?
<lamont>
yeah, that — also the atlas-centaur paper didn’t use 0.0 for A or B
<lamont>
“0.0"
<acharles>
NathanKell: You could let people buy a line of parts that produces a new part every X days.
<NathanKell>
yep!
<NathanKell>
exactly! :)
<acc>
cool :)
<taniwha>
NathanKell: that idea feels like my survey stakes idea
<acharles>
Like buying a line of S3 (I think) turbopumps?
<lamont>
they used A = -0.4, B = 0.0036 for entirely unexplained reasons...
<taniwha>
ie, one of those door-opening ideas
<acharles>
lamont: Which paper did you read to develop the code?
<NathanKell>
well, of engines. Sadly we can't really model things on the subpart level
<acharles>
NathanKell: I remembered? Apparently things do sink in!
<Pap>
This could work very well NathanKell
<NathanKell>
acharles: Indeed! :)
<taniwha>
NathanKell: might EL's recipe system help with the subpart level?
<lamont>
i started with the orbiterwiki guy and then as i got confused with him i’ve been reading the atlas-surveyor paper closer which has generally been more successful
<NathanKell>
lamont: if I had to bet I would bet it's T. This stage is so long burning that I think it confuses PEG
<NathanKell>
Given you already know the stage burn time, you might as well use it
<lamont>
heh kinda?
<NathanKell>
taniwha: Ah?
<taniwha>
NathanKell: per part, and per part module recipes. designed for resources, but it should be a good bases for non-resources
<NathanKell>
I'm not sure I follow
<NathanKell>
Like you would say, part x and part y require subpart z, so have a line for subpart z?
<NathanKell>
we can treat creating a line just as the part entrycost
<acharles>
lamont: Integrals are not my strong suit :P
<lamont>
heh, i’m cool with integrals
<lamont>
calculus of variations… well i took a graudate level applied math course in that…. 20 years ago…
<taniwha>
NathanKell: but yeah, that would be the idea
<acharles>
I only did calculus in uni and it turns out that none of my jobs need calculus. :P
<lamont>
yeah, i used poisson statistics once at work
<lamont>
we had 50 servers, about 25 of them needed to be rebooted the week before, about 20 of them handn’t, and 5 of them had been rebooted more than once, with one like 4 times.
<taniwha>
NathanKell: the recipe system was my solution to supporting the idea of a "real EL"
<lamont>
i managed to stop project managers from sending us down the route of scouring the servers to determine what made the ‘good’ ones ‘good’ and the ‘bad’ ones ‘bad’.
<lamont>
(if i could do that, i could clean up at Vegas and quit)
<taniwha>
also, that manual is still very WIP
<acharles>
lamont: haha
<acharles>
So, T is cutoff time, according to the appendix
<lamont>
yeah
<acharles>
And I assume it’s an estimate that is refined each iteration
<lamont>
but you have to initialize it
<acharles>
What does the paper say it should be initialized to?
<lamont>
there’s one function that given the cutoff time derives the A and B steering parameters, then another function that given the steering figures out T and dV remaining
<lamont>
yeah it looks like it initializes it with the estimated burn time of the stages
<ferram4>
You can make a rough assumption of the cutoff time based on the dV available and the burn time of the stage(s) and use that to initialize.
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|NOMZ
<lamont>
so for now just taking mechjeb’s deltaTime of the stage
<acharles>
is mechjeb’s deltaTime the time until all delta-v is expended?
<lamont>
stage.deltaTime is the same number MJ’s delta-V stats window gives you
<acharles>
I was only asking cause Unity has a deltaTime which is the time since the last update :P
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<regex>
o/
<regex>
I need write access to the RP-0 repo, first round of descriptions are ready
<regex>
Pap, NathanKell? ^^
<Ramh5>
Pap: anyway thanks for your help, I backed up my saved game completely reinstalled from scratch KSP 1.2.2 but my contracts are gone, I might have to give up for a while
<Pap>
regex: create a fork and put it up there
<blowfish>
regex: pr no worky?
<Qboid>
blowfish: taniwha left a message for you in #RO [26.06.2017 23:57:26]: "sorry, I didn't notice the branch when I updated"
<regex>
I was told I could write directly to Pap
<regex>
's but okay
<Pap>
yeah, best to do it that way and we can merge it in
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<Pap>
Goodnight all o/
Pap is now known as Pap|Sleep
<taniwha>
blowfish: yeah, very sorry about that. tired and I'd been fighting getting github to work on my laptop (where I had the changes)
<taniwha>
so I failed to notice
<acharles>
lamont: Haha, I apparently can’t get MJ building in VS
<lamont>
yeah i use mac and vim and make so i can’t help ya there…
<acharles>
I have a mac
<acharles>
I use vim
<acharles>
But I’ve never done C# on a mac
<acharles>
:P
<github>
[RP-0] jbengtson opened pull request #709: Contract Descriptions: Human Milestones. (Pap-TechTree...Pap-TechTree) https://git.io/vQZt3
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<lamont>
i can’t remember what i had to do
<taniwha>
I use vim and make on linux
<lamont>
i think i got to building stuff on my mac via building other stuff like krpc or kos
<lamont>
i think krpc may have a .travis.yml that builds it under linux, and mac is close enough it gives you an idea of the junk you need
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<Qboid>
lamont: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<acharles>
On line 164, there’s a “B = B;”, that’s correct?
<lamont>
!tell NathanKell i gave that a test with a 5m50s 0.72 TWR upper and such a bad initial pitch program that it had to pitch up from 10 to 60, and it converged immediately
<Qboid>
lamont: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
NathanKell: lamont left a message for you in #RO [27.06.2017 05:53:56]: "i gave that a test with a 5m50s 0.72 TWR upper and such a bad initial pitch program that it had to pitch up from 10 to 60, and it converged immediately"
<NathanKell>
heh good timing
<lamont>
lulz
<lamont>
so that
<taniwha>
NathanKell: did you get that pdf? (I know someone did)
<lamont>
acharles: yeah the compiler complains about that, its a vaguely useful comment though, should probably make it a real comment
<acharles>
haha
<NathanKell>
i did not get the pdf yet taniwha
* taniwha
likes -warnaserror
<NathanKell>
--pedantic
<lamont>
yeah MJ would not compile with that
<taniwha>
NathanKell: anyway, as to "Like you would say, part x and part y require subpart z, so have a line for subpart z?"... yes
<lamont>
i need to fix a few of them that i think i introduced
<NathanKell>
taniwha: Ah, neat! Probably a bit beyond what I'd have time for, but very very neat :)
<NathanKell>
!tell regex* I guess you had push for RO but not RP-0? I'll sort it out
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
gotta try out the PEG
<lamont>
i’m seeing it converge right away as soon as the upper stage ignition hits full thrust
<lamont>
even when i make it solve some hard problems with terrible booster pitch programs
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<lamontzzz>
yeah so still need more tweaking, i went overbudget a little bit and had to light my TLI stage to finish orbit, and that failed to coverge, but it only needed a few secs, and it was initializing it with the full 4m of the stage burntime
<acharles>
ah
<lamontzzz>
so we probably need to estimate the dV neglecting gravity losses and then take that fraction out of the tank
<lamontzzz>
or maybe that plus some kind of SWAG for gravity losses
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
for stages close to orbit that estimate ignoring gravity losses will be close lamontzzz
<lamontzzz>
alright though time to wind down brain or i’ll never sleep...
<NathanKell|Twitch>
:D
<NathanKell|Twitch>
o/
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* xShadowx
should do less things and find some time for ksp
* soundnfury
yawns
<soundnfury>
morning all
<taniwha>
hi, soundnfury
<soundnfury>
lo taniwha
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<taniwha>
wow, the formula for fraction of a sphere visible from a point is /trivial/
<taniwha>
h/(2*(R+h))
<taniwha>
0 = none, 1 = full, but always < 0.5
<taniwha>
of course, network coverage is not as simple as just adding up the coverage of all the satellites
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<Shoe17>
taniwha: that sounds way too easy
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<Theysen>
moin o/
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so... using Pap's RP-0 branch, everything's working fine. except when I upgrade the launch pad... suddenly I get a bug, receiving millions of kerbal dollars per second, and the message 'Facility is already being upgraded'
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
which means this career is over
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
second career with the same bug since using Pap's branch. the universe clearly doesn't want me to enjoy KSP the way I want to :(
Pap|Sleep is now known as Pap
<Pap>
o/
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hola papinho o/
<taniwha>
Shoe17: doesn't it
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: that bug has been experienced by me and Bornholio it is due to a conflict with the new 5 tiered buildings and KCT. Magico13 (from KCT) is going to be looking into it today
<taniwha>
but physics and geometry are often like that
<Theysen>
Hypergolic_Skunk, yes already reported
<Pap>
It is unfortunately a career killer
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
that's good to hear
<Theysen>
otherwise... Ditch space life and run off with the millions of dollars :D
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I can't look at one more sounding rocket :D
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: If you disable KCT, you can still use the save
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
no way :D
<taniwha>
Hypergolic_Skunk: btw, seen early bird? :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
early bird?
<taniwha>
new mod (by me)
<Pap>
So if you turn off the RP-0 requirement of upgrading buildings, the save will still be fine
<taniwha>
doesn't work so well if KSCSwitcher is installed, though
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: ok, good to know, but that's not much of a career :p
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I never launch at night, except for, well, timed launches
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
does it work with KSC switcher if I stay in KSC?
<taniwha>
not reliably
<taniwha>
however, it should work well when in a landed vessel
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hm, ok. I'll continue to do this manually, then
<taniwha>
it's only in the space center and tracking station scenes that it should have any trouble
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but it's great to know it's out there. maybe some day it'll be smart enough :p
<taniwha>
Hypergolic_Skunk: but you can always wtm on the pad :)
<taniwha>
(then it will work reliably because it takes the vessel's lat/lon)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but then I have to take care of power and boiloff refill and all, and with planes that only works if the plane is hooked to a launch clamp, iirc
<taniwha>
planes don't normally have cryogenic fuels
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
no, but they run on batteries
<taniwha>
anyway, can always use a flag
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
a flag?
<taniwha>
plant a flag somewhere convenient
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
then switch to it, then timewarp? ^
<taniwha>
yup
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
think I'll pass for now. I typically timewarp from the Space Center.
<taniwha>
just needs a fix to KSCSwitcher
<taniwha>
I'll take a good look at it on the weekend
<taniwha>
it /sometimes/ works with KSCSwitcher installed
<taniwha>
not sure about the triggers
<taniwha>
the problem is the SC lat/lon aren't updated properly
<Pap>
taniwha: you have probably thought of this, but is there some part or piece of the space center that you good look at? Instead of trying to get the PQS information?
<taniwha>
there is, but I /really/ want to fix it properly
<Pap>
ah, ok
<taniwha>
I'm one of those "fix the root cause" types
<taniwha>
I despise band aids
<Pap>
oh, you mean, do it the right way, what an overachiever /s
<taniwha>
:p
<taniwha>
there's a reason my threads have low traffic :/
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<leudaimon|work>
o/
<Pap>
Hi leudaimon|Work
<Bornholio>
pap we have updates to tech tree in master last two days?
<Pap>
Don't think so Bornholio, but let me see if I forgot to push anything
<Pap>
Nope, you are good with what is up there
<Bornholio>
RO branch still same thing?
<Bornholio>
scrubbing this install to start testing again :P
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<leudaimon|work>
hey Pap!
<Theysen>
Bornholio, you see when there was the last commit in the RO master branch
<Pap>
RO is sitll the same
<Bornholio>
Good, Going to try and CKAN everything else but the two branches
<Bornholio>
theysen i did not looking now
<Bornholio>
looks like master doesn't have any significant changes that will bother Paps RO Branch
<Pap>
Bornholio: if you want to use the new Tech Tree, you have to have the Pap1723-ROupdates branch
<Bornholio>
Yes sir
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<Pap>
kk, just wanted to make sure there weren't any issues
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* Theysen
wants to do a proper mission to Mars but has no inspiration or motivation
<Bornholio>
lol
<Bornholio>
HIAD
<Theysen>
guess I'll do some mission where I send the returner first empty, then the crew and then fuck off again
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<Pap>
Bornholio: I unfortunately have to remove a lot of the detail on your icons :(
<Bornholio>
not sure why they artifacted so bat when rotated
<Bornholio>
bad
<Bornholio>
want me to re-run them from higher resolution first?
<Bornholio>
Wish ksp would accept a higher resolution icon.
<Pap>
No, it is not that, I have to overlay that 233 gray color on them otherwise they stick out as obviously different from all other icons we have
<Bornholio>
ah, yeah edges will mess that up bad
<Pap>
I am using an 80% opacity (instead of the 100% I used on the others) as it allows more of the detail to be kept. My plan for the other icons will be to do the same
<Bornholio>
well if you want off load the work back to me if you want.
<Bornholio>
ah isee why they did that, the rotate tool didn't select all the lighter pixels on edges
<Pap>
No need Bornholio, I have a macro setup in Photoshop that automates the process for me :)
<Bornholio>
Okay
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<blowfish>
Well, I hope this person is satisfied with my reply
<Bornholio>
you might have something generating phantom forces being clipped inside something else, I had the DMagic science universal storage items do that once
<Starwaster>
blowfish... :D
<Bornholio>
yo uguys are harsh
<Rokker>
Bornholio: nothing is clipped
<Bornholio>
does it start at pad or some higher stage
<Rokker>
fuckin nazi ghosts are in my rocket
<Rokker>
Bornholio: cant tell if it starts lower cause the stage fights it with gimbal
<Rokker>
ill try it in space without sas on
<Bornholio>
cheat it into space an let the force guide you
<Rokker>
Bornholio: ima have to cheat and give myself my testing money back because ill be damned if i let a bug steal 3 grand from me
<Starwaster>
seriously though, were we going to do a final 1.2.2 release for Real Fuels considering that Realism Overhaul users still on 1.2.2 still need it? There's a serious overheating bug that I pushed a fix for
<Theysen>
Sounds awesome
<Starwaster>
Rokker, they were consulting fees, not a bug :P
<Theysen>
I betcha you get purged and left with a warning for that thread.
<Rokker>
Starwaster: seriously tho, this is the weirdest fucking bug ive ever seen and it makes the game literally unplayable
<Starwaster>
The gimbal thing you mean?
<Rokker>
i wouldnt call it gimbal
<Rokker>
cause none of the engines have gimbal
<Rokker>
its just a phantom force that varies in proportion to how close the pitch is to 90
<Rokker>
until the rocket is facing straight up
<Rokker>
and only while the engine fires
<Bornholio>
I'd save your career and do a scrub and reinstall unless someone has a good idea for you. I had phantom probelms with A-9 engines that had no explaination
<Starwaster>
bornholio, does that engine part have resources in it?
<Starwaster>
or actually let me rephrase
<Starwaster>
CAN it accept resources but maybe does not have any?
<blowfish>
Starwaster: difficult now that the 1.3 changes are on master
<blowfish>
not impossible of course
<Bornholio>
yes
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<Rokker>
ok so
<Bornholio>
starwaster I probably had HTP on it
<Starwaster>
hmmm. Do a release with the current repo but using a compiled 1.2.2 dll.
<Rokker>
phantom forces only seem to happen to aerobee engines
<Rokker>
and aerobee variants
<Starwaster>
can all of the aerobee engine parts be configured for resources?
<Starwaster>
or at least the ones with phantom forces?
<Rokker>
dont think so
<Bornholio>
Rokker do you have the alternate model installed?
<Starwaster>
because what it sounds like is maybe the mass is zero or negative. And that can happen if the engine has MFT. There should probably be an issue created for it but I don't think it happens very often because most engines don't have that capacity
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<Starwaster>
other weird things I've seen happen are the entire stack being unable to launch at all. That happened ONCE and I as able to make the entire stack pivot around an upper stage engine that I forgot had that problem
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<Rokker>
Starwaster: engine seems to have mass in the VAB
<Rokker>
one last test to make sure its the aerobees
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<Rokker>
um
<Bornholio>
no resources in the RO configs
<Rokker>
all gimball-less engines apparently
<Bornholio>
how about no engines, cheat int o orbit and see what happens
<Rokker>
Bornholio: well like i said, it only happens when engines are firing
<Bornholio>
Use an RCS unit
<Rokker>
THIS TIME however, something did show up on the torque
<Rokker>
differential thrust
<Rokker>
nope, there it is
<Rokker>
all engines
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<Rokker>
Bornholio: any thrust at all produces this phantom force
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<Bornholio>
I know i would scrub and start install over again, anything special about the install?
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<Rokker>
im lazy and dont like effort?
<Rokker>
thats the only special thing i can think of
<Bornholio>
you've put Install + effort in troubleshooting by now
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<Bornholio>
<--intalling TTT fresh cause KCT blew up my saves
<NathanKell|WORK>
Rokker: is Principia installed?
<Qboid>
NathanKell|WORK: leudaimon|Work left a message for you in #RO [26.06.2017 23:59:12]: "soundnfury, rsparkyc I'm considering creating a proc. avionics similar to the centaur avionics for RtS, as well as adding a science container in the Ranger I level proc avionics, is that ok?"
<Qboid>
NathanKell|WORK: Pap left a message for you in #RO [27.06.2017 00:59:41]: "I have some bad news about the new upgrade tiers, they are not registering correctly"
<NathanKell|WORK>
leudaimon|Work: seems fine
<Rokker>
NathanKell|WORK: aye
<NathanKell|WORK>
Rokker: update to Cauchy
<Rokker>
NathanKell|WORK: will cauchy work for 1.2.2
<NathanKell|WORK>
I thought so
<NathanKell|WORK>
dunno
<NathanKell|WORK>
anyway, that was a known bug in the previous release
<NathanKell|WORK>
although it shouldn't have been happening in an atmo
<NathanKell|WORK>
anyway, try with principia removed and see if you still get the bug
<Rokker>
egg|anbo|egg: does cauchy work in 1.2.2
<Pap>
Bornholio: want to be a guinea pig for your icons?
<Rokker>
NathanKell|WORK: i figured it was either principia or persistent rotation
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<leudaimon|work>
ok NathanKell|WORK!
<Rokker>
NathanKell|WORK: well, lets see if chauchy works
<leudaimon|work>
I'll try to get some play later today
<Rokker>
cauchy*
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<Bornholio>
pap yes
<Pap>
actually, I am confused by where you think the engines should be associated with which technologies
<Rokker>
nuclear jet engines wen
<Bornholio>
either Kiwi should be Prototype, Early should be NERVA NRX/XE or the Pheobus 1, Basic should be RD0410, Improved should Pheobus 2 or Pewee
<Bornholio>
Unless you add finer grain increments
<Rokker>
i want to be able to fly for a month straight
<Starwaster>
how would you use a flightless engine?
<Pap>
Got it, thanks born
<Rokker>
Starwaster: flightless engine?
<Bornholio>
starwaster yup the kiwi's were named that becasue the assumptions it that they would never fly and were only for process/prototyping
<Starwaster>
Kiwi never flew. Yeah technically it's a prototype but why would it have a presence as an actual engine ?
<Rokker>
ah, yeah
<Rokker>
i was thinking u meant my nuclear jet comment
<Starwaster>
or for that matter, Phoebus.... also never flew so why would it show up as an advanced engine?
<Bornholio>
TWR and power density is much greater than the NRX/XE Kiwi derived NERva
<Bornholio>
and PEWEE is even higher, and it becomes the notional BNTR
<Starwaster>
so make a NERVA 2 or Pewee 3 with that power
<Bornholio>
The current config for NERVA 2 is based on Phoebus 2
<Starwaster>
that's would likely happen IRL rather than making a flight ready version of either one
<Rokker>
NathanKell|WORK: lets see if this works\
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<Bornholio>
starwaster the TTT techs are align a bit differnetly Prototype Nuclear Propulsion1967-1968
<Bornholio>
Basic Nuclear Propulsion1981-1985
<Bornholio>
Improved Nuclear Propulsion1986-1991
<Bornholio>
Early Nuclear Propulsion1972-1975
<Bornholio>
Advanced Nuclear Propulsion1998-2003
<Bornholio>
Efficient Nuclear Propulsion2009-2018
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<Rokker>
NathanKell|WORK: SUPREME VICTORY
<Rokker>
NathanKell|WORK: donkey shin for the help
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<Graf>
o7 all
<egg|anbo|egg>
NathanKell|WORK: yes, Cauchy works for 1.2.2, it's written in the /topic, the thread title, the readme, the faq, where else do I need to yell at people
<github>
[RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQn0U
<Pap>
^^^ Bornholio
<Graf>
egg|anbo|egg: hey egg, is principia available for 1.3?
<Bornholio>
k
<Rokker>
egg|anbo|egg: can you park an advertising truck outside my window saying it in bright flashing letters?
<egg|anbo|egg>
Graf: no
<Rokker>
egg|anbo|egg: does principia work for 0.13.3
<Graf>
well, luckily I can still principia all over the place in 1.2.2
<Starwaster>
rooker bright flashing NEON letters. Don't forget the neon
<Starwaster>
rokker ^^
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: I don't know if you have played any of the Hearts of Iron games, but they simulate manufacturing lines, paralell runs and serial runs in a way you may borrow from
<Rokker>
SON OF A BITCH
<Bornholio>
^poke .runaway
<Rokker>
first (non-bugged) attempt at this orbital rocket
<Rokker>
460 x 18 km
<Bornholio>
RCS! save me :P
<Theysen_>
bad piloting LUL
<Rokker>
nope, no RCS on the 3rd stage
<Rokker>
so ima lessen the rcs on the 2nd stage
<Rokker>
try to get a little bit more dV
<regex>
We need a biological cannister that fits on an Aerobee.
<Qboid>
regex: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [27.06.2017 05:58:40]: "I guess you had push for RO but not RP-0? I'll sort it out"
<Rokker>
regex: we need space mice
<regex>
Yeah
<regex>
Also space monkeys
<Rokker>
regex: fun fact
<regex>
I'm reading about space monkeys and their mice friends right now
<Rokker>
regex: you can see the cannister used and the mice at the National Museum of the USAF
<regex>
Someday Rokker, someday\
<Rokker>
regex: tomorrow someday?
<Rokker>
:P
<regex>
heh
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: perms sorted
<regex>
Thanks!
<regex>
Although now I have to reset all URLs what I set last night
<regex>
vOv
<NathanKell|WORK>
heh
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: I have, yeah, and remember that system :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
I think we'll only model serial tho
<regex>
At least git makes it easy
<NathanKell|WORK>
you can't really do parallel manufacturing in the HOI style here; at most you can set up multiple serial lines
<Pap>
Will the cost of manufacturing go down the more you manufacture?
<NathanKell|WORK>
yep
<NathanKell|WORK>
definitely need a gearing bonus
<Bornholio>
pap looks good, I'll do BNTR , TRITON, LANTR ICONS for the Later ones and toss them your way
<Theysen_>
can I outsource to cheap child labour states later on?
<Pap>
Ok, so it will accomplish the same idea, perfect NK
<Pap>
Bornholio: Can you send a screenshot? I'm curious and haven't gotten to test them yet
<Bornholio>
man already missing taniwha's early bird mod.
<Pap>
Bornholio: are you still working on integrating Nuclear Rockets, or is that done already?
<Bornholio>
I have a bunch of configs but they rely on Sxt model right now, wanted to make my own so its not dependant
<Bornholio>
what would you want help with
<Pap>
Oh nothing, I just remember that you were working on them and was curious how they will flesh out the tree
<Bornholio>
its nine engines plus configs, adding the rd-0410 for the last and also its methane config
<Bornholio>
found a model that I'll see about permission for the RD
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<acharles>
Pap: I have some feedback about the new tree. It seems there’s a lull in interesting contracts between being able to get to orbit with A-9/XLR11/Aerobee and unlocking the LR89/79/105/etc, just in terms of how long the science takes to unlock. Though, I suspect once your sounding rocket contracts are available, this lull will have slightly more variety.
<Pap>
acharles: yes, that is the problem we are hoping to fix with the sounding rocket contracts. However, I do not know how "exciting the new contracts will be
<acharles>
The biggest issue with that lull for me is that I can’t reliably complete sounding rocket high, so I just end up grinding sounding rocket low with a rocket that has slightly more capability than I need. So, either I make next to no funds or I get lucky and triple my profit by getting a lower apogee from the high contract that I can do.
<acharles>
So, having different contracts that I can reliably complete would be awesome.
<Pap>
Yep! That I need to work on. This week is terribly busy with work, so I am hoping to get a chance this weekend
<acharles>
Work is important :P
<Pap>
My work is not important, but it pays the bills ;)
<acharles>
work is imperative for most people.
<Pap>
Yes it is, that is why I am going to school as well
<acharles>
I’ll be the first to admit that I appreciate pedantry.
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<regex>
Did they get rid of Sounding Rocket: Medium? Low and Medium were my bread and butter back in the day when getting started, and I used to take them on pretty much every launch after.
<CobaltWolf>
Wish I could have a different window but that'd mean completely redoing the capsule geometry...
<regex>
Huh. Well, I pretty much swore off playing career mode anyway so I don't know whay I care.
<Bornholio>
pap is working on a new payload resource requirement for them since you don't care
<Rokker>
Bornholio: WOOOOO 100 YEARS OF WRIGHT FIELD
<Bornholio>
Rokker still no flying cars, thank god
<regex>
A payload resource requirement? Like procedural payloads or just, you need to put this much mass on orbit?
<Bornholio>
like minimum 150 units of weather satbus or commsat bus on new versions of those misions
<Pap>
regex: We asked CobaltWolf to make us some procedural payloads, but none yet :(
<CobaltWolf>
huh?
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<Pap>
Remember when we talked about making a dummy satellite payload?
<Bornholio>
Pap should just make a new tank type that only takes your new resources and electric charge
<Bornholio>
oh and is square :P
<Pap>
Bornholio: If I could figure out how to make procedural parts, I would have definitely done it already!
<Pap>
I have been looking into it, but cannot wrap my head around it
<regex>
I want a proc toroid so bad...
<Bornholio>
that too
<Bornholio>
guess i know the answer
<regex>
I could skip the square but the toroid is badly needed
<Bornholio>
bug NK, oh no digure out myself how to do it.
<Pap>
Yeah, NK is going to be messing with Assembly lines (needed badly)
<regex>
Assembly lines?
<regex>
like for production?
<CobaltWolf>
Pap: I have no recollection of this
<regex>
does that imply a part catalog or something?
<Pap>
regex: yes, he is working on hooking it into the new Magico13 mod Scrapyard
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<acharles>
lamontzzz: I’m attempting to add initial support for multistage PEG to your branch.
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<lamont>
that may be a little delicate due to needing to deal with mechjeb’s staging
<lamont>
in order to make that “centepede” stage-and-a-half launcher work correctly MJ actually needs to get bugfixed
<NathanKell|WORK>
or even KCT's inventory system actually, not just scrapyard. If KCT still has an inventory system at all
<lamont>
plus you need to worry about sep stages that just have solid sep motors
<NathanKell|WORK>
lamont: PEG need only engage after booster sep for R-7/Atlas
<NathanKell|WORK>
but yes, ullage/sep stages you do have to worry about
<lamont>
yeah but all it sees after launch is that one big stage with insufficient dV to orbit
<acharles>
lamont: I’m going to pretend that the MJ bug doesn’t exist and sep motors still provide delta-v, so not ignoring them doesn’t pose an immediate problem.
<NathanKell|WORK>
but it shouldn't see anything *at all* until after Pitch Program completes
<lamont>
sure that’s where human UX input comes into the equation
<NathanKell|WORK>
indeed
<NathanKell|WORK>
and for now that's Good Enough (tm)
* NathanKell|WORK
wants his guidance naow
<lamont>
lol
<acharles>
haha
<NathanKell|WORK>
seriously man, one taste and I'm hooked :P
<acharles>
I’m not going to change any of the equations.
<lamont>
did you try the update with the better A/B/T initialization?
<acharles>
I’m just going to turn everything into arrays.
<NathanKell|WORK>
yes, that's why I'm hooked :P
<NathanKell|WORK>
worked a treat for Blackbird (launching a commsat instead of Fireant)
<acharles>
Though, my MJ is throwing exceptions and I don’t know why.
<lamont>
i’m not sure it works to just array-ify everything
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<acharles>
Haha, ‘everything’, no.
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<acharles>
The paper uses subscripts for everything that needs to be multistage
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<lamont>
yeah
<NathanKell|WORK>
anyway, early day (mucho productivo) so see y'all in a bit
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<lamont>
there’s also an N-stage extension in the appendix i think
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<acharles>
I guess I’ll start with a clean install. I copied over my dll that I built and it’s just throwing lots of exceptions.
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<CobaltWolf>
ugh, how do I tell?
<CobaltWolf>
like use the tell command
<soundnfury>
CobaltWolf: !tell nick,nick2,nick3 message goes here
<soundnfury>
!tell CobaltWolf like this, see?
<Qboid>
soundnfury: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<CobaltWolf>
!tell @NathanKell* Did you ever bother Chris about the Living Space stuff? I'll have to set a daily reminder haha
<Qboid>
CobaltWolf: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
CobaltWolf: soundnfury left a message for you in #RO [27.06.2017 22:56:18]: "like this, see?"
<CobaltWolf>
ayy, thanks
<soundnfury>
CobaltWolf: no @
<CobaltWolf>
damn
<CobaltWolf>
!tell NathanKell* Did you ever bother Chris about the Living Space stuff? I'll have to set a daily reminder haha
<Qboid>
CobaltWolf: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<CobaltWolf>
there...
<soundnfury>
:)
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<acharles>
I have mechjeb in a otherwise stock install. I can’t seem to open the delta-v stats window.
<acharles>
Is that not part of stock mechjeb?
<Bornholio>
have a probe core on it?
<Bornholio>
control of some kind or no functiosn
<Bornholio>
even in VAB
<acharles>
I have Jeb?
<acharles>
And the AR202
<Bornholio>
then you should have dV window and a bunch of others
<Bornholio>
hit the MJ on the toolbar
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<NathanKell>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: CobaltWolf left a message for you in #RO [27.06.2017 22:58:00]: "Did you ever bother Chris about the Living Space stuff? I'll have to set a daily reminder haha"
<Pap>
o/
<NathanKell>
CobaltWolf: Yes, check your emails, we spoke about it :)
<NathanKell>
Heya Pap!
<acharles>
Oh, I apparently needed to restore factory default settings
<acharles>
that made the windows come back
<Pap>
How was work today on the Project That Must Not Be Named
<NathanKell>
ferram4 Someone was sarcasmacollateral damage
<ferram4>
I saw.
<acharles>
And I not only got mechjeb to not throw nullref exceptions, but I got it to tell me that my 2 stage rocket has 2 stages
<NathanKell>
then no, not new
<NathanKell>
acharles: \o/
<ferram4>
Wait.
<ferram4>
When did the stock pods get ModuleLiftingSurface added to them?
<ferram4>
For the stock game?
<NathanKell>
for 1.2.
<NathanKell>
same with heat shields
<NathanKell>
I didn't have time to make my body lift behave better so I cheated
<NathanKell>
the lift only activates when the node is open
<NathanKell>
and only for certain dot products
<NathanKell>
but you might as well strip all ModuleLiftingSurface
<ferram4>
...no one told me so I haven't been stripping it away from those.
<ferram4>
On the basis that I don't strip the modules from everything to avoid breaking wings that don't have FAR modules defined for them.
<ferram4>
Dammit.
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<acharles>
NathanKell: I cherish the small victories.
<Pap>
NathanKell: should I make the Satellite Bus Resources equal 1 kg per 1 unit so that it is easier to know what your payload will weigh when looking at a contract?
<NathanKell>
I talked about it on Squadcast, it was in the devnotes, and in the changelog, so...that's on you pal :P
<NathanKell>
acharles: :)
<NathanKell>
Pap: That would be very nice
<NathanKell>
I'd also suggest only adding it to SM and Fuselage tanks, like EC
<Pap>
acharles: If we added expected Delta-v requirements in the contract description, would that help with your understanding?
<Pap>
OK NathanKell, is that because of the extra weight of those tanks?
<NathanKell>
mmm, kinda, but more because it's weird to be able to put electronics in any tank but batteries only in two
<NathanKell>
those tanks represent 'wired' tanks as it were
<NathanKell>
so I guess yeah it's cuz of the extra mass ^_^
<acharles>
Pap: I’m going to sidestep that question for the moment and ask whether my latest reply makes more sense or not?
<acharles>
cause talking about ‘my’ understand of one small, specific thing, doesn’t really help the bigger goal.
<acharles>
And adding delta-v requirements really only avoids the need for people to find a delta-v calculator or cheat sheet for various orbits. It can’t possibly change the learning curve very much.
<soundnfury>
Pap: you put it right next to the phrase "race into space", and you still called it "RtS"
<soundnfury>
it's RIS dammit :P
<soundnfury>
;)
<Pap>
LOLOLOL soundnfury
<NathanKell>
ahahahaha
<Pap>
I have no idea what you are talking about, it was listed correclty the whole time... ;)
<github>
[RP-0] pap1723 pushed 8 new commits to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQcCu
<github>
RP-0/Pap-TechTree d4298ab jbengtson: Interim commit for Contract Descriptions: Milestones.
<github>
RP-0/Pap-TechTree 6d3081a U-DOGFORT\justin: Merge branch 'Pap-TechTree' of https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0 into Pap-TechTree
<github>
RP-0/Pap-TechTree ea51e9d U-DOGFORT\justin: Contract Descriptions: Human Milestones
<ferram4>
...And I am 99% sure RazorFang's "FAR just doesn't work" problem is that his computer won't let FAR's background threads run.
<acharles>
NathanKell: RF thread: :(
<NathanKell>
Pap: I noticed the NK-9/9V are marked RP-0 nocost?
<NathanKell>
didn't they have costs in the old tree?
<Pap>
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, let me look
<NathanKell>
Did you get both the Bobcat ones and the RealEngines ones?
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
think I'll play a bit
<NathanKell|Twitch>
but after an hour or so, if there's anything you want me to do, let me know :)
<Pap>
They do have a price in the old tree for Cost, but not for entryCost. We use 20x cost for entryCost, correct?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Correct
<Bornholio>
dang already more updating
<Bornholio>
am i still piling on that long ass thread for Pap-techtree comments?
<Pap>
Sure Bornholio that is a good central location
<Bornholio>
testing with the Drama Queen Series of sounding rockets is going well
<Bornholio>
"Drama Queen VIII" is go for orbit!
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