<leudaimon>
smells like a well-intentioned bomb to me
<Pap1723>
Yes leudaimon, I contributed, but mostly because I love his normal stuff he does. I fully expect to lose out on my $35, but I've enjoyed myself with his work for free, so no worry about a donation if that is all it turns out to be
<SpecimenSpiff>
anybody here understand PEG enough to help me figure this out? with my current settings, it's not even lighting the throttles on launch
<leudaimon>
yeah Pap1723, just seems so amateurish it's weird
<Pap1723>
leudaimon: yes, I contributed almost day 1, the stuff coming out from the Kickstarter since then has been underwhelming to say the least
<leudaimon>
just saw it, and was underwhelmed... considering how good is his stuff in other fields I would expect more
<leudaimon>
SpecimenSpiff, have you used ascent guidance without PEG before? if you didn't ask it to launch into target plane or rendezvous, you usually have to stage yourself, and that includes the initial engine startup
<SpecimenSpiff>
ive used ascent guidance tons
<SpecimenSpiff>
and with those settings, I set throttle max, turn on autopilot, stage for launch, throttles go to zero
<leudaimon>
engine startup should work the same
<SpecimenSpiff>
change the settings a bit, and they light up and off we go
<leudaimon>
weird
<leudaimon>
what are your settings?
<SpecimenSpiff>
bu tno matter what I do, I never get peg to do more than an unguided gravity turn
<SpecimenSpiff>
other than air lighting the core, is pretty standard staging.
<SpecimenSpiff>
4 stages to orbit, all liquid
<SpecimenSpiff>
and its got plenty of dV
<Pap1723>
Hot staging confuses PEG, after you hot stage, you need to hit Reinitialize
<Pap1723>
Did you look at the thing I pinged you on in the Discord?
<SpecimenSpiff>
hm, didnt see a ping
<leudaimon>
pardon my ignorance, but what is discord?
<Pap1723>
leudaimon: Discord is an advanced messaging app similar to IRC, but a generation ahead of IRC
<NathanKell|AWAY>
I can't type much but you'll want a sharper turn than what I suggested on discord
<Pap1723>
@SpecimenSpiff look at #general
<leudaimon>
hehe, mostly anything is at least a generation ahead of IRC
<SpecimenSpiff>
yeah, I see your message in general now. and thats what Ive been doing
<SpecimenSpiff>
I think the nan for stage 4 is the problem, and no idea what causes that
<SpecimenSpiff>
DOH! it wants km, not m
<SpecimenSpiff>
default value had 6 digits, so I just assumed...
<SpecimenSpiff>
yeah, I dont think this lv could reach a 170,000km orbit...
<Pap1723>
lol, yep, that will cause some problems!
<SpecimenSpiff>
it populated that by itself from classic ascent guidance values
<SpecimenSpiff>
so thats a bug
<SpecimenSpiff>
...and we have stable peg guidance \0/
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<leudaimon>
cool
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<SpecimenSpiff>
Now for the fun part. I just put my third comms satellite in orbit with that launcher, and the tracking station has upgraded so I can try for the moon. But I also just unlocked the next node of orbital rocketry and have lr87 etc.... Not sure if I want to make a bigger and better rocket to do it the easy way, or do it with this one just to prove I can...
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<Pap1723>
ferram4: Are you around?
<ferram4>
Yes
<Pap1723>
Nevermind, I was going to tell you that the wiki for FAR wings is missing images, but the Blender tutorial is still tehre
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<lamont>
re: “it populated that by itself from classic ascent guidance values” => the Pe value is literally the same value from the other box though — like i just use autopilot.desiredOrbitAltitude everywhere for “periapsis”
<NathanKell>
...why are we having you do MM rather than art :P
<Pap1723>
lol, not an artist, that was all done in code, I can do code once I learn it :)
<Pap1723>
Thank you
<NathanKell>
so...how bout dem kspedia pages
<NathanKell>
^_^
<Pap1723>
:) I might get into those down the road, I could make those look sharp and I would enjoy that I think
<NathanKell>
:)
<Pap1723>
Quick question for you ferram4 on FAR wings
<NathanKell>
Yeah, you're doing a lot of support work so you might as well do it only once ^_^
<NathanKell>
Actually, also--you wanna do some tuts with me? On my longer-term todo list is write RO tuts for KSP, since I wrote the KSP tuts with Dave (triggerau)
<NathanKell>
well, rewrote some, some new
<NathanKell>
and RO makes many invalid
<Pap1723>
I have Shuttle Wings with the Strakes combined so it is all one part, how do I treat that with the different sizes I need to measure on it?
<Pap1723>
Yeah, I would like to do that as well
<xShadowx>
Pap: nice pic, but it has other silly wannabe countries listed, US is the only important one, save some effort :P
<xShadowx>
NathanKell: RO tuts? just write mod linking your youtube series into ksp ;3
* xShadowx
is accualy serious, video tut > text
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<xShadowx>
:|
<NathanKell|Twitch>
xShadowx: Interactive > video tho
<xShadowx>
ohhhhhhh the ksp tutorial mode thing
<xShadowx>
oops :x lol kinda forgot it existed
<NathanKell|Twitch>
that's the kind of tuts I meant
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
Pap: Uh... the Crewed Lunar Orbit contract says "for 20 hours" but the orbit stability check is for 2 minutes and there's no duration check
<Pap1723>
Hmmm, someone screwed the pooch on that
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Also it's repeatable
<NathanKell|Twitch>
There used to be a milestone and then repeatables
<NathanKell|Twitch>
this is repeating the milestone (at 270k/270k on hard, so it's a great moneymaker)
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
It's guestorcketsco!
<NathanKell|Twitch>
s/orc/roc/
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch meant to say: It's guestrocketsco!
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Pap: Did you mean to combine them? If not I can restore them if you like
<ferram4>
Pap1723, sorry, was out. Also, I like the 90s Brugge site. It has a functional charm to it.
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7GlU
<borntosleep>
about ten minutes in starts the lif section description
<borntosleep>
lift
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<Qboid>
regex: Theysen left a message for you in #RO [26.07.2017 09:39:43]: "thanks on a sidenote for the mixing up of RSS texture resolutions, took it from some post on the forums of yours. helps the ram no matter what, cheers!"
<regex>
SCIENCE!
<regex>
Sure man. That's an old trick, I think Bevo used to have 8K for the mission planets and 2K elsewhere. He'd swap as needed.
<regex>
Takes a restart but it's better than playing 2K all the time
<Pap>
regex, Theysen that trick won't matter with the next release of RSS, all the textures will only be loaded on demand, so it will essentailly do that for us :)
<kpengwin>
oh that's cool
<Theysen>
Kopernicus got on demand now? Nice
<regex>
That's really good
<regex>
I play with full 8K anyway, but that's cool.
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<regex>
I hate pFairings because once you tear them off you need to spend five minutes figuring out where the fuck to grab them again.
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<regex>
What do you guys do for aeroshells for Earth reentry? My stuff keeps burning up from heat transfer to the fairing base or something.
<regex>
Trying to return a film capsule thing.
<schnobs>
I built air darts: heat shield, capsule, long stick and fins.
<borntosleep>
need to make the heat shield big enough to shadow the capsule
<schnobs>
looks silly but works well.
<borntosleep>
fuel tank buffer is good too
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<borntosleep>
if the shield is too small the sidewall heating is what kills the camera capsule.
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<regex>
Would better skin temp fairing walls help?
<borntosleep>
may standard one without retros is a 1.5m shield, a conic tank 1.5-1.25x300mm then the capsule. it still takes heat somewhat but usually stays low red. Yes
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<borntosleep>
the fairing bases aren't great tho
<regex>
Yeah, I'll throw a tank in between
<regex>
Thanks
<borntosleep>
better is a ECC probe to gatehr the data in and send that down using a 1.25m shield
<borntosleep>
gather
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<regex>
It is an ECC probe. 0.625m shield, fairing base, ECC probe, two chutes, proc SRB. Attached to the base are the aeroshell
<regex>
That seems really stupid but I';ll try it.
<regex>
What about a slightly smaller aeroshell, like a 0.55m?
<schnobs>
Sorry, haven't played RO in a good long while, not sure about measurements anymore.
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<schnobs>
But won't the early returnable core fit pretty exactly behind a 0.6m shield?
<Bornholio>
and get a ton of sidewall heating
<schnobs>
IIRC the problem is the core sticking out slightly, or not being tolerant of even the slightest angle during entry.
<schnobs>
anyhoo, gotta quit. See you.
<regex>
No, the core fits behind the 0.625m shield just fine.
<regex>
vOv
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<regex>
I'll go with the 1m shield
<Bornholio>
I usually do a 1.25 since its going with a camera or agena anyway
<regex>
I don't return the camera though.
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<Bornholio>
regex you saw my lunar return sample using aLEO rated shield in the what did you do thread...thing took two reentries and still had half ablative
<regex>
Oh sure, I'm never worried about the ablator, it's the other parts.
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<BadRocketsCo>
Err
<BadRocketsCo>
The explorer probe core flies suprisingly well...
<BadRocketsCo>
As if in
<BadRocketsCo>
Flies
<BadRocketsCo>
In the atmosphere.
<BadRocketsCo>
Like it has wings
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<regex>
Nice, 1m shield did it.
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<regex>
Really starting to love the early Atlas Agena, such a great combo.
<Bornholio>
easy to do all the orbital stuf with atlas
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<stratochief>
Atlas agena is great. Even as a target vehicle, it was used to push Geminauts higher above the earth than anybody before them
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<Bornholio>
how do i do a slightly out of earth soi and back again launch to do solar sample return, short of thrusting back
<regex>
burn radially maybe? raise out of SOI then drop back into it.
<regex>
BRB, hard reboot needed.
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<BadRocketsCo>
o/ stratochief
<darsie>
Bornholio: Plan a maneuver.
<darsie>
Or adjust your attitude before leaving SOI.
<Bornholio>
seems like there should be a loop forward and out that would return me but i'm having fun finding a starting orbit that works well
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<Rokker>
stratochief: you know whats impressive
<Rokker>
stratochief: the inflation rate of eclipse glasses in an eclipse yeart
<Rokker>
year
<Bornholio>
for some reason they are more valuable?
<Rokker>
Bornholio: i mean i get why, but when i bought them for the partial a few years back, they were like a 4th of the price
<darsie>
Buy low, sell high, get rich.
<Bornholio>
also for some reason my lunar lander with 45 2kn thrusters is laggy
<Bornholio>
they are in clusters of nine on pods, even cheatier
<darsie>
Bornholio: Must me the increased rendering effort.
<NathanKell|WORK>
no it's pretty clearly TF
<Qboid>
NathanKell|WORK: Pap left a message for you in #RO [27.07.2017 14:10:48]: "Launch Cost tags are added to all parts that are RP-0 cost configged. Also fixed the contracts we discussed yesterday"
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Woot!
<Bornholio>
TF forced my hand and now it makes me slow, dang you agathorn!
<darsie>
TF?
<darsie>
The Force?
<Bornholio>
Team Fortress?
<xShadowx>
testflight
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<Pap>
regex: I love Atlas-Agena, I just cannot figure out how much Delta-v I acutally have. Anyone have any tips on that?
<regex>
lol no
<regex>
I drop the boosters at 30 seconds left in the tanks and then I end up with like, 2:30 left for the sustainer.
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<regex>
I'd have to count the actual delta-V
<Bornholio>
FM principle
<Pap>
I always drop around 2:15 of flight, once I get to about 6 TWR
<regex>
That's about 30 seconds left for me
<regex>
well, wait, my Atlas has a burn time of around that if I leave the boosters on.
<regex>
Anyway...
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<soundnfury>
Pap: well usually I have konrad calculate it, but a good rule of thumb is to look at the dV with the booster engines on, and with them dropped but the tanks full, and interpolate
<stratochief>
IIRC, I drop boosters at ~6.5G of accel, or something. that standard works alright no matter the payload or even upper stage for Atlas
<soundnfury>
so for example you might see 6500/7600, in which case I'd estimate 6940 ( = 6500 + 0.4 * 1100)
<Pap>
Ah, that makes sense
<Bornholio>
atlas does not make sense it makes magic
<soundnfury>
as for when to drop the boosters, I often go by the tanks hitting 23% fill level (or some similar value adjusted for how I want to trade TWR against Δv)
<soundnfury>
(e.g. if I'm lofting a heavier upper I might stage later to reduce total burn time and thus gravy losses)
<Pap>
These are all good rules of thumb :)
<soundnfury>
it gets a lot harder if you use LR79s or E-1s instead of LR89s, as I've been doing in RIS,
<Pap>
Why did you do that, better ISP?
<soundnfury>
because then the mixture ratios don't match and you have to stage at _just_ the right time to avoid residuals
<soundnfury>
nah, I just wanted to use the same engine as on Thor
<soundnfury>
I'd already flown a bunch of Thors so I had TF data
<soundnfury>
Also, E-1 boosters for bigger more powerful Atlas-alikes
<soundnfury>
One advantage the '79 _does_ have over the '89 is that you get longer burn times at earlier tech; even the early '79s can run for 2’45” whereas the early '89s only do 2’15”
<soundnfury>
in practice I seem to end up around about 2’25” or 2’30” on my '79-ed Atlases
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: what triggers the GPS constellation contract? :)
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Once you have completed enough Communications Contracts
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah!
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
good to know :>
<Pap>
Are you really going to attempt it?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
of course!
<Pap>
Oh man, better have a lot of your green friend around for that ;)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
never without :p
<regex>
Does the "skunk" in your name mean what I think it does?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
(sorry, busy right now.. can talk in 10 )
<regex>
lol
<regex>
<spark one up, throw on some desert rock, launch 24 rockets>
<mkalte>
can i describe a gravity turn with a logistic function? Well im doing this atm and it works, but is there something better?
<mkalte>
(scripting with krpc n stuff)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
regex: yes it does.
<regex>
nice
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
makes RSS just that much more enjoyable and beautiful :P
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<regex>
lol. I wish it didn't turn me into a ball of anxiety, used to really enjoy that past time. Hard to launch rockets drunk too.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I know what you mean. can't smoke myself into oblivion like I used to.
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<regex>
What's the altitude for "high above" science?
<Pap>
35,000 km or therabouts
<Pap>
It is just below GEO
<regex>
damn.
<leudaimon|work>
o/ Pap
<leudaimon|work>
I just saw you changed the crewed lunar contracts... I think the same approach could be applied for other lunar contracts that have more than 1 completion right now... the uncrewed ones
<leudaimon|work>
they have a fairly high payout for multiple completions... there could be a repeatable for those instead of allowing multiple completion of the milestone one
<Pap>
o/ leudaimon|Work
<Pap>
That is a good point
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<leudaimon|work>
Pap: not sure how it could be done... for the landing contract, requiring a specific biome would be nice
<leudaimon|work>
for the orbiter, maybe requiring some specific orbit parameters, such as minPe/maxAp and inclination range
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
does anyone of you play with Real Solar System Expanded?
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<regex>
I play with the Pricipia approved parts of it
<regex>
^Principia
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Principia scares me
<regex>
Why?
* soundnfury
oblates regex
<regex>
It's like any other change in the game. I didn't like the idea of limited ignitions, now playing without them is literally easy mode.
<regex>
Same with Test Flight, you just get used to it.
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hm. a year ago or two I watched a video, and the interface scared me. not sure if things have changed.. much
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<egg>
regex: Hypergolic_Skunk: images from the latest version http://imgur.com/a/XC6iL (note: all the windows on the left are from MJ, only three on the right are mine)
<egg>
the interface is arguably clumsy, but I'd say MJ's is scarier :-p
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
thanks! I may try it in a separate install. my current career has certain goals (Cassini-copy, Ice Giants) that I want to reach first, though
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
when I did Cassini for the first and last time, i had RSS Expanded installed, and I got a ton of flybys... superfun :)
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<xShadowx>
egg: nobody is scarier than you :P
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<NCommander>
Ugh, morning
<NCommander>
Pap, I asked this question this morning, but did your RP-0 branch merge to master? I tried to do a pull and I can't see to find it on github
* NCommander
doesn't want to look through his logs, too groggy