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<SlainteMaith> lamont: exactly so. I took umbrage and someone saying MJ was 'the most useless thing ever' (since I've found my children to be so far more often) and because I've submitted proper bugs to Sarbian (with him even nodding to my bug-writing prowess) and feel like it's at least in part--part of my project, too.
<SlainteMaith> I apologize if I got snarky on a project that wasn't mine.
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<Pap> o/
<Qboid> Pap: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [29.07.2017 23:29:36]: "give me a test craft?"
<SlainteMaith> Never ask for a test craft. The problem is, invariably, someone will give one to you.
<SlainteMaith> Charlie Duke said that.
<SlainteMaith> (Actually, I just made that up. I said that.)
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<SlainteMaith> Actually Tyler Raiz said that.
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<SlainteMaith> Seriously. He didn't. I just made that up.
<SlainteMaith> Really thankful for margaritas and mead tonight.
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<leudaimon> o/ Pap
<Pap> o/ leudaimon
<leudaimon> I'm doing the first space station contract... just found out an issue
<Pap> uh-oh, what is it?
<leudaimon> the "stable orbit" requirement is reset whenever you do some maneuver to adjust attitude or anything like that
<Pap> hmmm
<Pap> Alright leudaimon I changed around some values, should work better this way now
<leudaimon> and something unrelated but weird is that I'm just finishing 30d, according to KAC, but the mission timer says the mission has lasted 37d already... considering I took less than a day to rendezvous, something weird is going on
<leudaimon> thanks
<github> [RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7lUQ
<github> RP-0/master 6c9c6cf pap1723: Fix First Space Station Duration Parameter...
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<leudaimon> another contract I'll have to cheat to complete...
<Pap> Ugh, annoying
<leudaimon> np
<Pap> How is the glorious Brazilian space program operating?
<leudaimon> best way to debug these contracts
<leudaimon> pretty well... that's for the RIS gameplay... finishing year 4 with the first space station contract completed
<leudaimon> now I have to wait for some new techs to go for the moon landing
<leudaimon> btw, do you have any idea on how to configure CLS? I'd like to config the gemini capsule to allow passing through a dock on the nose
<Pap> leudaimon: I do not know much about the CLS
<leudaimon> Pap, I tried to find these configs for the Apollo capsule to compare, but had no success
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<NathanKell|Twitch> leudaimon: we have the Gemini set up so you can't pass through the nose because that's all solid avionics (and rather narrow for humans anyway); the actual plans for Gemini were always through the real, and we do support transfer through there
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<leudaimon> oh, through the heat shield?
<NathanKell|Twitch> http://imgur.com/a/HvHQh
<leudaimon> didn't know that
<NathanKell|Twitch> There's Ravenchant's version
<NathanKell|Twitch> VA (TKS) is nice because there's a hatch on *both* ends :)
<leudaimon> nice, will try something similar next time
<NathanKell|Twitch> (IMS)
<Bornholio> CLS always makes me pay in blood
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<Pap> taniwha: you on here as well?
<taniwha> yeah
<Pap> Ok, so, we would want them to be about 0.9m x 2.7m and they would hinge and fold like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mariner_2_inspection.jpg
<taniwha> ok, I should be able to come up with something
<Pap> you are the man!
<taniwha> how thick, though? 5mm? 10mm?
<Pap> 20mm
<taniwha> thanks
<NathanKell> taniwha: awesome! :)
<taniwha> just a simple hinge ok?
<Pap> All we need
<Pap> It basically fell into place
<taniwha> ok, I'll just put a simple hinge in the middle of one end
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<Starwaster> what should the mix ratio be for a methane airbreather? anyone know offhand? Or do I have to google it?
<Bornholio> stochiometric ratio 17.2
<Bornholio> but for what, in ramjet its a lot of times rich
<Starwaster> oh hmm yeah didnt htink about that.
<Bornholio> what engine type?
<Starwaster> scramjet
<Bornholio> out of my wheel house plasma physics gets screwy there.
<Starwaster> actually it's whatever hybrid the stockalike configs turned the airbreather component of the rapier into
<Bornholio> its precooled as the SABRE so stochiometric is probably sane
<Starwaster> finding that the airbreather configs are kind of screwy like they forgot that the mix ratios in KSP are volume instead of mass... so they seemed a bit high to me. But as you say they'd be kind of rich so maybe that makes sense
<leudaimon> soundnfury, any reason for the RIS server not to recognize my first space station?
<Starwaster> someone got there first?
<Starwaster> (I dunno I'm just mouthing off, ignore me)
<Bornholio> http://www.brighthubengineering.com/machine-design/15235-the-stoichiometric-air-fuel-ratio/ has a nice little list and explaination of how to find others
<leudaimon> soundnfury nvm, I reentered the savegame and now it worked
<NathanKell|Twitch> !tell Pap* the post-return space station 'keep stable orbit' text doesn't make sense--it talks about transferring crew
<Qboid> NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<taniwha> panel is coming along
<taniwha> have the modeling and animation done
<taniwha> working on UVs and then texturing
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<Starwaster> bornholio ah thank you. very helpful
<blowfish> lamont: PEG doesn't handle throttle limiting, does it?
<Bornholio> like doing it manually during boost phase?
<blowfish> no, like limiting G loading
<blowfish> g loading
<blowfish> MJ can also limit based on dynamic pressure, but that had better be during the booster phase
<Bornholio> lol
<Pap> taniwha: people are giving you a hard time about making the square solar panels from Mariner 2, not the tapered ones from MAriner 4?
<Qboid> Pap: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [30.07.2017 03:38:05]: "the post-return space station 'keep stable orbit' text doesn't make sense--it talks about transferring crew"
<taniwha> Pap: nah, not a hard time
<taniwha> I'll do both
<taniwha> since it's just the shape of the panel
<Bornholio> .cheers
<Bornholio> now if my install would stop crashing
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<github> [RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7lOo
<github> RP-0/master 3d97202 pap1723: Clean Up Completion Text on First Space Station Contract
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<taniwha> Pap: you there?
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<xShadowx> taniwha: i pasted that in gamedata folder, no new part appeared :(
<xShadowx> (disclaimer, joking, want it when done though <3 )
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<taniwha> :)
<taniwha> I'll take that as a "looks good"
<NathanKell|AFK> Looks great!
<xShadowx> o.O transparent solar panels exist
<xShadowx> wonder what thatd do for efficiency
<xShadowx> assuming efficiency of 1 panel goes down, but then you could stack em and extra light goes through to more panels, so maybe more efficiency per area^2 ?
<xShadowx> that would suggest 3d cells could be made as well
<xShadowx> ohhhhhhh no that wouldnt work...entirely ;3 theyre just converting non visible wavelengths, letting visible through
<blowfish> if anything you probably want it to be transparent to wavelengths you don't convert to electricity, or reflective at least
<blowfish> if you absorb light but don't convert it then it's heat
<xShadowx> ya seems they work by absorbing wavelengths you dont see, and emmiting IR (heat) that is directed to the edges, and using normal cells to then convert to electricity
<blowfish> hmm, my silly launch vehicle actually worked
<blowfish> stretched Delta IV core + 2 SRMUs (Titan IVb SRBs), no upper stage, able to put 30t in LEO
<xShadowx> obviously its not silly nough then :)
<blowfish> wasn't even lacking for thrust, could probably stretch the core even more, though it's already over rated burn time
<blowfish> and with that sort of launch profile the engine really begs for a larger nozzle
<ProjectThoth> Kinda sounds like a cousin of Jarvis.
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<NathanKell> o/
<NathanKell> wasn't Jarvis on SSMEs?
<NathanKell> Or an F-1 even?
<ProjectThoth> Jarvis was SSMEs or a J-2.
<ProjectThoth> No, wait, J-2X and F-1.
<ProjectThoth> But I know a two-SRM config was considered.
<NathanKell> Ah, no, it was both
<NathanKell> Original was F-1s/J-2s.
<ProjectThoth> Ahh.
<NathanKell> Redone proposal was inline solids and SSME
<NathanKell> sorry, I mean inline instead of shuttle C sidemount
<NathanKell> not solids in line like Ares I
<NathanKell> Good god, 525s burn time.
<ProjectThoth> Jarvis would've been neat.
<NathanKell> It's weird, it's got quite a light second stage for 2 F-1s
<NathanKell> C-3 had a whole S-II as a second stage, then S-IV
<NathanKell> This thing musta *hauled*
<ProjectThoth> Scaled-down S-II, for what it's worth.
<NathanKell> One J-2 tho
<ProjectThoth> Hmm.
<NathanKell> Yeah, scaled down on C-3, but still
<NathanKell> One J-2 on Jarvis
<ProjectThoth> Guess it wasn't intended to be man-rated, so...
<NathanKell> Only a bit heavier than S-IVB
<NathanKell> On C-3, it was still like 4 minutes of 4 J-2s for the second stage
<NathanKell> Hmm I think I make C-3.
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<blowfish> I think 525s would have been split over multiple burns though
<blowfish> well, two
<NathanKell|Twitch> blowfish: For GTO? Yeah
<NathanKell|Twitch> I mean, S-IVB was nearly 8 as I recall
<ProjectThoth> Hm, haven't heard of a couple of these concepts. https://www.nap.edu/openbook/0309102472/xhtml/images/p20010c31g121001.jpg
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<Rokker> NathanKell|Twitch: i have found something absolutely disgusting
<Rokker> even for naval aviation its disgusting
<Rokker> NathanKell|Twitch: its unnatural
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<Rokker> Bornholio: UNNATURAL
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<APlayer> Is this place appropriate to ask about part modding?
<darsie> APlayer: You could ask in #KSPOfficial
<APlayer> Okay, thanks.
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<Probus> Is it just me or does Test Flight cause engines the likeliness of engines breaking much higher in physics warp?
<Probus> Let me try again...
<Probus> Is it just me or does Test Flight cause the likeliness of engines breaking to be much higher in physics warp?
<Pap> taniwha: That is looking great!
<Lyneira> Is there a basic autopilot that works with FAR planes? I'd like to just be able to punch in a heading and pitch and hold that for long, slow, boring parts of a flight. Or tell it to hold level flight at altitude X. Neither stock SAS or Mechjeb seem to be able to handle holding an attitude with FAR
<Pap> Lyneira: There is a mod called Atmosphereic Autopilot (or something like that), but I have never used it, so I don't know how it works with FAR
<Sarbian> NathanKell|AWAY: sorry was away for a while. Slinq is mostly a drop in replacement. Some linq method are not in slinq but it did not bother me with MJ
<Lyneira> That atmospheric autopilot mod looks quite advanced :O Flies statically unstable planes apparently
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<Bornholio> rokker whats unnatural?
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<Rokker> Bornholio: whats wrong with this picture https://zippy.gfycat.com/BaggyMammothBantamrooster.webm
<Rokker> video
<Bornholio> not my fault you post videos of seamen, and firemen.
<stratochief> Rokker: why chear that an airplane took off? isn't it supposed to do that?
<Rokker> Bornholio: this steamless picture is an abomination against gawd
<Bornholio> I have a funny one for that a friend of mine was a LT at the time. had a group of people as a staff officer on carrier. One woman, last name Gargler. Fastest career change ever , to fireman.
<Bornholio> linear motors should have been on carriers twenty years ago
<Bornholio> and they should launch assist at most USAF bases also
<Rokker> Bornholio: planes should fly on their own merits
<stratochief> planes should pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. why does the government have to give them fuel, payed for by the tax payer? filthy communist planes
<Bornholio> Those planes do fine.
<stratochief> Rokker: do you have a good video of a steam assist? does any steam escape, or is it fully captive?
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<Rokker> stratochief: havent you ever watch top gun
<Pap> Rokker: When Top Gun is pointed to as means of proof of anything, we have problems in the world
<Pap> I used to get angry when my Flight Sims didn't include a targeting reticule that automatically locked on like in Top Gun
<stratochief> Rokker: too much beach volleybal
<Rokker> Pap: it's not like the faked the F-14 catapult launches tho, is it?
<Rokker> they
<Bornholio> watching video really makes me wish I'd kept my flight helmet
<stratochief> Rokker: ahh, so that is steam rising from the runway?
<Rokker> stratochief: yes
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<Pena> hmm my RO install is missing engine running time limits and engine failures entirely
<Pap> You need to instal Test Flight
<Pena> oh, thanks
<Bornholio> Begin the suffering
<Pap> Remember Pena, it is Agathorn's fault
<Bornholio> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdJRchiKBa8 Rokker because you are so tweaked this morning here is some NSFW porn for you
<Rokker> I rate Agathorn|Away a solid 0/10
<Rokker> Bornholio: I was present for that tho...
<Pap> Bornholio: are you still here?
<Bornholio> yes
<Pap> For your NTR engines, you created Engine Configs for all of them, but then you also have a file called RO_BN_Engines.cfg in the RO_SuggestedMods folder, is this an accidental holdover?
<Bornholio> ah probably
<Pap> Ok, I assumed as much
<Bornholio> oh wait no
<Bornholio> that adds the ignitions and other things to the "Stock" style parts, the configs are for each engineType.
<Bornholio> also so i can add Methane configs when I get to those. Still trying to confirm some nozzle information for those.
<Pap> ah, ok
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<Hypergolic_Skunk> Pap: what is your ideal S1/S2 delta-v ratio for PEG? :)
<Pap> Hypergolic_Skunk: you are asking the wrong person. I haven't figured out any of the nuances of PEG yet
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<Hypergolic_Skunk> :p
<Hypergolic_Skunk> I noticed that when I give S1 more than S2, it wants to go near horizontal right after launch
<Pap> That should be messing with the Booster degrees per second as well as length of Boost Phase more than anything else (I think
<xShadowx> stratochief: the catapult isnt fully sealed along the top, so ya steam escapes, not like they cant make more ;p
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<xShadowx> top gun jokes aside, most video you see (though edited) involving military planes/ships in operation is the military in control, and simply grabbing nice shots, rather diff from hollywood staging everything, hollywood just cuts the scenes and uses best it can - cant just pick up a phone and order a sub to emergency surface at flank speed to see how high itll jump out of water :P
<xShadowx> that said - that scene is so overused :( been flipped, slow motion, covered with other layers, wish theyed get a LITTLE more variety
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<github> [RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7lwl
<github> RP-0/master 8cf0e19 pap1723: Fixed Lunar Orbit Single Repeatable Contract...
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<Pap> !tell Max* There is an issue with the Sounding Rockets contracts...I will try again, but wanted you to see it first: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/329685702247841792/341249372333539331/unknown.png
<Qboid> Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Maxsimal> o/
<Qboid> Maxsimal: Pap left a message for you in #RO [30.07.2017 16:03:45]: "There is an issue with the Sounding Rockets contracts...I will try again, but wanted you to see it first: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/329685702247841792/341249372333539331/unknown.png"
<Maxsimal> !tell Pap Not seeing anything for that link
<Qboid> Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Maxsimal> !tell NathanKell I editted the RP-0\RP0_KCTPresets.cfg formulas in a build, but not seeing those formula changes reflected in my game, even if I switch and switch back, or even if I start a new game and pick the RP-0 preset fresh. Any ideas?
<Qboid> Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<lamont> Hypergolic_Skunk: if it wants to go near horizontal, its probably working correctly, and you’ve likely built your rocket correctly. It doesn’t know anything about atmospheric flight, so it wants to minimize gravity losses for you. You need to give it an initial pitch program to get it to the point where it can take over without flipping the rocket and burning up in the atmosphere.
<Hypergolic_Skunk> hey lamont. the thing is that it did not differ from my other launchers, really. only S1 had about 5500m/s and S2 about 3600m/s. whichever values I used for pitch degree per send and total pitch turn length, it was still going almost sideways from the pad :D
<lamont> something like 10 second start, 0.75 deg/sec and about 75 second length will be very agressive with a 40 degree final angle, and if your rocket handles that, it’ll help minimize gravity losses. try to match the final angle of the pitch program up with the angle that PEG wants so when PEG takes over it doesn’t wobble much
<Hypergolic_Skunk> even those settings led to near-horizontal pitch from the pad
<lamont> that’s fine
<lamont> the numbers on the pad are supposed to be wonky
<Hypergolic_Skunk> how is it fine if the rocket tips over 80 degrees within 1 second after launch? it did not even respect the 10 seconds vertical ascent rule after lift-off
<lamont> and if you get near horizontal then you’re seriously minimizing your gravity losses. i’ve had more trouble with higher-TWR upper stages where to do it in one burn PEG wants to burn up at 60-70 degrees, which piles up the gravity losses
<lamont> PEG doesn’t know anything about the atmosphere
<Hypergolic_Skunk> I understand, but not knowing about the atmosphere does not explain PEG not doing the 10 seconds vertical ascent :P
<lamont> if its trying to burn horizontal it is giving you something closer to a hohmann transfer between the ground and orbit
<lamont> that sounds like the MET bug
<lamont> under certain conditions the MET clock starts running on the pad due to kerbal bugginess and the pitch is based off of the MET clock
<Hypergolic_Skunk> ah :)
<Bornholio> make sure you unclamp after spool up on the engines
<lamont> if you use mechjeb autostaging, then that condition also causes mechjeb to immediately autostage past your launch clamps, before you’ve spooled up and your rocket drops into your pad and everything explodes
<Bornholio> lol kerbal
<lamont> yeah
<Hypergolic_Skunk> that would explain why in that very case PEG would ignite the engines after me clicking 'Engage Autopilot', whereas normally - for non-timed launches - I need to do that manually by hitting the space-bar
<lamont> i should really fix that one, it seems to be the leading “i can’t understand PEG” bug
<lamont> yeah
<lamont> that’s just kerbal being kerbal, nothing to do with PEG
<Hypergolic_Skunk> ok :)
<lamont> (i should probably try to work around that bug today)
<lamont> even though its not really PEGs fault it causes so many problems...
<Hypergolic_Skunk> is there a bit of a guide somewhere? one that explains things like... relation between TWR, delta-v ratio between S1, S2, etc., burn-time, pitch-time, etc? I mean, I'm slowly getting there and think I understand now what PEG wants, but that took me days :p
<Bornholio> need a short wiki page for it
<Bornholio> Lamon want me to make a framework for one?
<Bornholio> lamont ^
<lamont> yes
<Starwaster> so how hot would the exterior of an RTG get IRL? Let's say something like what Curiosity carries
<Starwaster> lamont, didn't you incorporate my MET fix?
<lamont> no, not yet, that’s what i was thinking of doing today
<Bornholio> sorry page 8, skin temps
<Hypergolic_Skunk> lamont: this may be advanced, or unnecessary, but for manned launches I'd like to switch off engines to keep the G's low. is that something that PEG can do, or should do? :)
<lamont> PEG doesn’t know about that
<lamont> you should be able to apply G or Q limits normally in the ascent guidance menu and it’ll throttle down
<Hypergolic_Skunk> most engines don't throttle, though
<lamont> oh switching engines off entirely…
<lamont> yeah, you’re getting into the area where i’d probably point you at mechjeb’s scripting interface...
<Hypergolic_Skunk> yeah :) let's say I have three H-1/RS-27 in a line, so I'd want to switch off the outer engines at some point
<lamont> and yeah PEG staging will get confused by that
<lamont> and then the integration of the trajectory will be off
<Hypergolic_Skunk> I noticed that when an engine dies or has decreased performance due to Testflight, PEG stops working
<Hypergolic_Skunk> hence my question :)
<lamont> sometimes
<lamont> i’ve seen it work
<lamont> depends on if it can still hit your target orbit at the end of a single burn or not
<lamont> clicking “reinitialize stage analysis” though will most likely be required
<Hypergolic_Skunk> I tried that, and had more than enough delta-v left, and the gimbal was enough to keep the rocket in line. still didn't stage S2 after S1 burnout.
<Hypergolic_Skunk> which is fine, if you say, that's how it should be :p
<lamont> right, but its not just delta-v
<lamont> you have to be able to follow an optimal trajectory (defined by the linear tangent steering law) in order to end the burn exactly on your target orbit
<Hypergolic_Skunk> hm
<lamont> “still didn’t stage S2 after S1 burnout”? sounds like MJ autostaging issue?
<Hypergolic_Skunk> ah, i guess that's where I get confused.. whether something is PEG or MJ
<lamont> PEG is just the pitch program
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<lamont> it just uses the normal autostating controller
<lamont> so hot staging is busted with autostaging because hot staging has always been busted with MJ autostaging
<Bornholio> did a short wiki structure for lamont's PEG https://github.com/lamont-granquist/MechJeb2/wiki feel free to improve and add more structure
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<Starwaster> lamont sounds like you really need to go to at least Saturn V IGM if not shuttle's PEG
<Starwaster> Saturn V could deal with engine out situations
<Starwaster> scheduled or otherwise
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<NathanKell> o/
<Qboid> NathanKell: Maxsimal left a message for you in #RO [30.07.2017 17:47:41]: "I editted the RP-0\RP0_KCTPresets.cfg formulas in a build, but not seeing those formula changes reflected in my game, even if I switch and switch back, or even if I start a new game and pick the RP-0 preset fresh. Any ideas?"
<NathanKell> Maxsimal: Lemme see the preset?
<NathanKell> Sarbian: Ah gotcha. I'll let taxiservice know.
<NathanKell> Sarbian: Other poke is CBK's visual bug, tho I know you're busy :)
<lamont> yeah, i’m thinking shuttle PEG
<lamont> i was just debating heading to the engineering library to find a journal article i need or not
<lamont> bornholio: hah! i hadn’t thought of putting it there
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<Rokker> I shot some guns today
<Rokker> they were nice guns
<Bornholio> feel free to move it :P
<Bornholio> lamont
<Rokker> very nice guns
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<Hypergolic_Skunk> Bornholio: awesome, nice work on the PEG guide :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk> what kind of G's do you find acceptable for man-rated ascent?
<lamont> Bornholio: i just added a bunch to your wiki page
<Hypergolic_Skunk> nobody has anything to say about 'terminal guidance' ? :p
<Bornholio> it mine now? yeah i can learn me some PEG
<NathanKell|Twitch> Bornholio: added notes to Pe and Ap
<NathanKell|Twitch> because that confuses people
<Bornholio> wow lots of adds thanks
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<Hypergolic_Skunk> sorry to repeat my question, but what kind of G's do you guys find acceptable for manned launches? (the ascent part)
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<Bornholio> 3-4G, if you are too much higher then you should be finding a way to lower G-Force. The game won't care though.
<Hypergolic_Skunk> ok. that'll be tough with early tech :p
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<NathanKell|Twitch> Hypergolic_Skunk: early on, US LVs hit about 7-8 peak
<NathanKell|Twitch> (and Mercury hit 9 on reentry)
<Bornholio> poor bastards
<Hypergolic_Skunk> those poor astronauts D:
<Hypergolic_Skunk> ok, had a max g-load of 6.73. definitely survivable :)
<Bornholio> Thats in the range of lot of peak human activity, sucks but livable. this guy however ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stapp
<Bornholio> he paid in blood sweat and tears for a lot of pilots lives.
<lamont> I tend to abuse my kerbals with G forces
<lamont> i also poison my oceans with toxic rocket fuel
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<Maxsimal> NathanKell: https://pastebin.com/wKSXkhy4 was just a test. Couldn't see the formulas set correct in KCT>
<Starwaster> http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/142213-pegas-powered-explicit-guidance-ascent-system-devlog/&page=2#comment-3135689
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<Maxsimal> Also off to bed now, will be around later
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<Dman979> Oi
<Dman979> Who linked my post?
<Dman979> >:(
<Dman979> Starwaster, I bet it was you.
<DuoDex> Ha ha ha.
<Hypergolic_Skunk> reentry with the Mercury Reentry Module peaking at 5.8 g ... acceptable :)
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<Starwaster> uhm no, why? is that bad? if it was bad then it was DuoDex
<Starwaster> if it was good then, why yes, it was me
<Starwaster> :P
<Starwaster> oh you know what though I actually meant to link the one abo9ve it
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<dxdy> Hey there, quick question, playing with RO+RP0+Principia, whenever I try to land on the moon, it bugs around and goes rolling around. This roll never stops. I've tried several of the landing legs as well as a couple of modded ones (like the falcon like ones) and using none at all, whatever I do, the craft just basically never comes to a rest. it almost rests and then it picks up speed once again for no good reason. Anyone have any idea what could ca
<egg> dxdy: hm, at what altitude are you trying to roll?
<dxdy> on the ground^^
<egg> uh to land I mean
<egg> dxdy: yes, but what is the altitude of the ground there
<dxdy> 8860 at the moment
<Bornholio> sounds like above 5k :P
<dxdy> I'm not sure I follow
<dxdy> what's the deal with 5k?^^
<egg> context: KSP-RO/RealSolarSystem#111
<Qboid> [#111] title: Moon min timewarpAltitudeLimits dip below the surface | currently 10x timewarp is set to 5km, which is below the surface in many cases. This causes you not to be able to land on the moon when using principia. (see: https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/1440, https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/1346, https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issu
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<egg> dxdy: do you have the latest RealSolarSystem?
<egg> NathanKell: was there a release since June?
<NathanKell> egg: no
<NathanKell> bad me
<egg> well there's your problem
<Red5> \o NK, egg
<egg> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<NathanKell> yo Red5!
<dxdy> ah, you're a saint, that would explain it, I was going mad
<egg> Red5!
<NathanKell> and also dxdy, good to see you!
<egg> all glory to the Red Iron Crown!
<NathanKell> egg: We were holding on biomes but I think we might as well just go
<egg> NathanKell: there's also the additional moons of Pap
<egg> might want to get that merged
<dxdy> I'm surprised you remember, to be honest^^ but good to be back indeed
<NathanKell> course I do! :)
<egg> NathanKell: or you could go with our method of just releasing whatever is there from time to time so this doesn't happen :-p
<egg> NathanKell: of course that requires being a lunatic :D
<egg> yes, our good friend the element of surface dxdy :-p
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<NathanKell> dxdy: you were doing KSPedia things, as I recall, and I was busy crunching on 1.2 and sadly ignoring you.
<dxdy> correct on the KSPedia stuff, as for ignoring I didn't feel particularly ignored so no problem there
<egg> also, glad to see principia users :-)
<Red5> There are dozens of us!
<NathanKell> :)
<egg> Red5: rather a lot more since manley made his video
<dxdy> actually principia being usable and convenient brought me back to ksp
<dxdy> was on a bit of a pause and the manley video about it being released for public use got me back interested
<egg> Red5: we have what *checks counters* 1389 downloads of Cayley, which released a quarter (moon :D) ago
<Red5> Yeah but I downloaded it like 1200 times.
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<egg> aah that explains things
<Red5> J/k, didn't realize your mod had experienced the Manley effect.
<egg> yeah it was surprising tbh
<egg> we used to have ~300 downloads
<egg> over a lunation
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<egg> Red5: then this happened http://i.imgur.com/LvsqwYg.png
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<Red5> I take it maley's video was around June 21?
<Red5> *manley's
<egg> yup
<xShadowx> axial tilt was when?
<egg> it shoots off pretty much instantly
<egg> (it cuts off when we release Cayley, people go to the other link)
<egg> xShadowx: oh that was added back in Cardano
<egg> the first lunar release
<egg> and the first 1.2.2 release too
<smartdummies> i'd get it just for the axial tilt, but I can barely manage to plot decent rendezvous now, trying to figure out in the correct reference frame hurts my head
<smartdummies> is it possible to limit the amount of data that is stored in the science container of the probe cores? feels a bit cheaty to store a bunch of film samples and any experiments taken out of comm and not have to worry about running out of storage space
<NathanKell> There might be
<NathanKell> I'm not sure.
<smartdummies> especially in the ecc
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<dxdy> just checked, applying that patch did indeed resolve my problem, so thanks again!
<blowfish> NathanKell: what do you think about making ModuleEnginesSolver generic, e.g. ModuleEnginesSolver<T> where T: EngineSolver, then ModuleEnginesRF : ModuleEnginesSolver<SolverRF>
<blowfish> I think it would save a bunch of casts/keeping track of a separate variable
<NathanKell> Makes sense. Can you do that with part modules? Also how do AJE props work, do they use two solvers?
<blowfish> KSP can't instantiate a generic class, but ModuleEnginesSolver will never be directly instantiated, and all the subclasses would be non-generic
<acharles> NathanKell: http://imgur.com/a/NC34y
<blowfish> AJE props only have one solver, the piston part uses a different interface
<blowfish> but that can be taken care of in CreateEngine()
<blowfish> I probably won't make this change immediately even if we agree on it, just something that's been at the back of my mind for a while
<NathanKell> acharles: Dunno what to tell you, it doesn't do that to me
<NathanKell> neither does it do that for the other folks in the twitch chat, IIRC
<acharles> Weird
<NathanKell> So you've got something fishy with your install
<NathanKell> try wiping RP-0 and redownloading from master fresh?
<acharles> yeah, I’ll try that.
<acharles> Perhaps I’m in a wierd state cause have those PR’s that I’m using locally.
<egg> smartdummies: dunno, some people have told me they find rendez-vous with Principia's tools more intuitive than stock's
<NathanKell> acharles: Ah have you not merged from master recently?
<acharles> I am right now. The last time I did completely was just before I submitted the first of my PR’s to fix RN’s soviet rockets.
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<acharles> NathanKell: I updated RO and RP-0 and nothing changed.
<lamont> NathanKell: so i’m on like a month or month and a half old version of RO/RP-0 before Pap-Tech-Tree
<lamont> what things should i be upgrading from git?
<lamont> or whatevs?
<NathanKell> lamont: RO and RP-0 master, both.
<NathanKell> Don't think anything else
<lamont> looks like there’s an RF release on CKAN
<lamont> that is probably safe
<NathanKell> acharles: check config cache?
<NathanKell> lamont: Ah right sorry. That too.
<lamont> other CKAN things look suspicious
<NathanKell> RealEngines is the only other thing that updated recently
<NathanKell> IIRC
<acharles> It seems to not have ModuleAvionics...
<NathanKell> Yeah. Verify the patch exists in RP-0/Avionics.cfg
<lamont> CKAN claims i am up-to-date on RealEngines
<NathanKell> lamont: Cuz the new ones are tagged 1.3
<NathanKell> but they're safe for us
<lamont> ahhh
<blowfish> NathanKell: hmm, RF engines shouldn't be producing any part flux unless extHeatkW is set somewhere, and I can't see anything in RF setting it
<acharles> It’s there.
<blowfish> sorry, anything in RO setting it
<NathanKell> acharles: Then I am very, very confused.
<NathanKell> Do a text search for all cfg with ModuleAvionics in them
<NathanKell> (in gamedata)
<NathanKell> see if you have some patch that strips them?
<blowfish> so I don't think it ca be part flux causing the engines to explode