<Dasm>
I dunno what it was, they were fine when I tested on the pad
<Dasm>
Game just crashed and I'm super frustrated with it.. I'll call it for now
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<NathanKell>
o/
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<ProjectThoth>
\o NathanKell
<taniwha>
o/
<soundnfury>
Nathao/ell
<Dasm>
!tell Pap|Away If you're working on the FASA stuff, take a look at the baby sergeants and the decouplers for them.
<Qboid>
Dasm: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<ProjectThoth>
What's the rule of thumb for delta-v to LEO in RO?
<NathanKell>
Depends on your time to orbit
<NathanKell>
(and liftoff TWR)
<NathanKell>
also your latitude obvs
<NathanKell>
range is probably something like 8700-9700
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQde3
<github>
RealismOverhaul/pap1723-ROupdates 3f1858f NathanKell: Up some max temps. Note @PhineasFreak didn't touch the Marsy stuff (CMES, BHD, etc), or Coatl.
<ferram4>
And inclination and destination orbit.
<Qboid>
ferram4: Pap left a message for you in #RO [14.07.2017 14:03:07]: "How do Grid Fins need to be setup to work with FAR?"
<ferram4>
Pap: You're outta luck.
<ferram4>
!tell Pap: You're outta luck, FAR doesn't support grid fins
<Qboid>
ferram4: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<ProjectThoth>
NathanKell: Best-case, equatorial launch, launch into same inclination?
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQder
<github>
RealismOverhaul/pap1723-ROupdates af90dcc NathanKell: Fix deletions in Mercury Nose Fairing (If you delete item 2 from a 3 item set, *there will no longer be* an item 3 to delete)
<NathanKell>
ProjectThoth: Again, depends heavily on TWR
<ProjectThoth>
I'm just curious if there's any agreed-upon ways to estimate that (outside of using Silverbird Astronautics).
<NathanKell>
Try simming some stuff in Schlling's calculator
<NathanKell>
Hah
<NathanKell>
Yeah, that
<NathanKell>
I mean, once you've done it for a while you get a feel
<ProjectThoth>
The only thing I'm not sure about with that calc is how the delta-v to orbit is calculated.
<ProjectThoth>
Er, I should say, sans penalty.
<NathanKell>
?
<NathanKell>
Dasm: Try the cap now, with that file from Pap-ROUpdates. It'll probably be fine now.
<ProjectThoth>
NathanKell: The methodology described in the PDF requires calculating delta-v to orbit and then applying the ascent penalty.
<NathanKell>
ProjectThoth: Yes
<ProjectThoth>
I reverse engineered it because I was curious (and wanted an offline copy), but I'm not sure if it's calculated as a Hohmann transfer (minimum), a two-burn (maximum), or the average of those two.
<NathanKell>
If you ignore drag, it's just the velocity in LEO minus the rotational advantage
<NathanKell>
s/drag/penalty/
<Qboid>
NathanKell meant to say: If you ignore penalty, it's just the velocity in LEO minus the rotational advantage
<ProjectThoth>
Yeah, that'd be minimum, as I understand it.
<NathanKell>
Yes
<NathanKell>
The penalty combines gravity, drag, steering for getting to LEO height and velocity
<ProjectThoth>
I think that the payload figure (not the range) is given as some weight of the average of the two possible ascent profiles.
<ProjectThoth>
But I unno what that weight is based off of.
<NathanKell>
Not on my reading, I thought it was a range based on inaccuracy in the model, i.e. vary the assumptions a bit to get a range
<NathanKell>
not ascent profiles as such
<NathanKell>
given the range of vessels it has to sim, you can't presume anything about ascent profiles, it simplifies rather further
<ProjectThoth>
Yeah, because using the maximum value always lowballed the payload (compared to what the calculator produced).
<NathanKell>
maximum value?
<ProjectThoth>
Penalty-less ascent to orbit.
<NathanKell>
but that's kinda meaningless, no?
<NathanKell>
That's using like 1+ km/sec less velocity than needed even on an insane LV
<ProjectThoth>
Wait, I'm probably not explaining it correctly.
<ProjectThoth>
So the penalty's applied *to* some delta-v value, right?
<ProjectThoth>
And that value is either the theoretical (airless body) minimum delta-v (a Hohmann transfer) or a maximum delta-v (a two-burn ascent).
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<NathanKell>
ProjectThoth: No, it is not, AIUI
<ProjectThoth>
When I tried to recreate it in Excel, my payload numbers were always slightly lower than what Schilling's calculator produced.
<NathanKell>
It is simply applied to the velocity in LEO
<NathanKell>
(AIUI)
<ProjectThoth>
NathanKell: Aw, crap, I learned orbital mechanics for nothing.
<NathanKell>
Yeah...
<NathanKell>
For higher orbits, then yeah, you'd use the equations to see the extra delta V needed
<NathanKell>
For optimal it assumes probably something like 100x100 and then a Hohmann transfer to desired
<ProjectThoth>
Interesting.
<NathanKell>
The paper explains that IIRC
<ProjectThoth>
Yeah, I'm reading it over right now.
<NathanKell>
(BLEO orbits)
<NathanKell>
cool
<NathanKell>
ok, streamytime!
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|Twitch
<taniwha>
ProjectThoth: learning orbital mechanics is never for nothing
<ProjectThoth>
taniwha: Nah, it was a good way to learn.
<ProjectThoth>
I've just been irked by not being able to replicate Shilling's results until recently.
<ProjectThoth>
Presently, I'm using a non-weighted average to approximate the delta-v to orbit, which seems to work reasonably well.
<ProjectThoth>
Yeah, previous estimates were spitting out total delta-v to LEO as being in the 9.920 - 9.970 km/s range.
<ProjectThoth>
Now it's more in the 9.100 - 9.600 range, which *seems* more reasonable.
<ProjectThoth>
I have no idea if an ascent with under 9 km/s is possible.
<taniwha>
the absolute theoretical minimum ΔV to 150x150 orbit seems to be 7996.5m/s
<taniwha>
however, that's doing the equivalent of a hohmann from the surface
<taniwha>
so you're doing 7767m/s at sea level :)
<ProjectThoth>
Yeah, that seems... hard.
<ProjectThoth>
Really can't wait to get RO up and running.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
!tell Pap* why is the Astris in a docking node?
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
!tell Pap* KVD-1 is hydrolox, needs to be in hydrolox
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
!tell Pap* where are the tiny wheels?
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
!tell Pap* never mind >.>
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
!tell Pap* um the LR87-LH2 configs unlock early, but the engine itself doesn't unlock until 1968 (!) hydrolox.
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Pap>
Just in time for some tells!
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [15.07.2017 02:31:38]: "why is the Astris in a docking node?"
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [15.07.2017 02:32:46]: "KVD-1 is hydrolox, needs to be in hydrolox"
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [15.07.2017 02:38:18]: "where are the tiny wheels?"
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [15.07.2017 02:38:38]: "never mind >.>"
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [15.07.2017 02:39:54]: "um the LR87-LH2 configs unlock early, but the engine itself doesn't unlock until 1968 (!) hydrolox."
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<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* Fixes have been made
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<lamont>
o/
<taniwha>
hi, lamont
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQdJo
<github>
RealismOverhaul/pap1723-ROupdates 4f561cf Pap: Change name value of HG-3...
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<NathanKell>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: Pap left a message for you in #RO [15.07.2017 03:21:44]: "Fixes have been made"
<NathanKell>
there we go
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<taniwha>
I'd say that Venus is hard even with Traveler tech level 15
<Bornholio>
Hmmm I think SD at TL 12 cures most of what ails you on venus
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<taniwha>
NathanKell|NOMZ: a thought about part pressures: 90atm is nothing, that's only 900m underwater. We've sent subs (manned, even?) into Mariana
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<taniwha>
(might not be quite linear but 1atm/10m)
<ProjectThoth>
I think it's linear.
<taniwha>
ProjectThoth: not if the water itself is compressing
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
It's not nothing, Balao crush depth was only like 200m
<ProjectThoth>
taniwha: Yup, beat me to it.
<Pap>
taniwha: Yeah, but to fight against that pressure, all you have to do is fill your tanks with air, not launch a rocket
<ProjectThoth>
But water's fairly incompressible.
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<Bornholio>
water is an incompressable fluid
<ProjectThoth>
Submarines can't really go very far down.
<taniwha>
yeah, probably not significantly off linear
<taniwha>
Bornholio: not really
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
Or a U Mk VII
<taniwha>
Bornholio: for most intents and purposes, yes
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
Err, Type
<taniwha>
but not when you get into hydraulics
<Bornholio>
water comprsses 1% at 150atm
<taniwha>
1.5km
<taniwha>
NathanKell|NOMZ: 200m sounds like it would have been manned
<taniwha>
a /little/ awkward to work with due to the funny angles, but not too bad
<Pap>
taniwha: wouldn't you want to include some nice, easy Cubic shapes as well? :)
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<taniwha>
have triangular ones
<taniwha>
also, 3 and 4 way with sane angles are planned
<Pap>
taniwha: what would cause an RCS unit to not thrust foward when it shuold?
<Pap>
FASA part issue it would seem that I am trying to debug
<ProjectThoth>
blowfish: I know, I'm looking forward to it.
<Bornholio>
shielded?
<ProjectThoth>
But, yeah, modular SRBs. Really wish we had 'em.
<Pap>
Or, better question, how should the S-IB APS Flight Pack work?
<Bornholio>
yes, don't they right now?
<Pap>
No, i just tested them and they do not thrust forward, well, they do if you ignite the engine, so I guess maybe that is how it is intended? only has RCS control for Pitch, Yaw and Roll, but to ullage need to actually ignite the engine?
<Bornholio>
APS has engine and RCS modules on them, that was what i thought was intended
<Pap>
Yep Bornholio, it seems confirmed that is how it is supposed to operate
<Bornholio>
I used them before and they worked well, though you are right it would be nice if they did forward RCS for TLI tuning.
<taniwha>
Pap: bogus shielding, maybe
<Pap>
Huh, according to Raidernick, the APS fired continuously through the Parking Orbit because the drag on the Apollo and S-IVB stack was so high and the thrust so low, it was needed to maintain an orbit
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<taniwha>
ferram4: FAR does not appreciate missing configs :P
<taniwha>
:)
<ferram4>
Missing configs for what?
<taniwha>
FAR. mis-install on my part
<Pap>
No grid fins ferram4?
<ferram4>
I don't have any good data on how to model them.
<Pap>
Gotcha, do AIRBRAKES work in FAR?
<Pap>
Is Falcon 9 landing possible I guess is my question
<ferram4>
Yes, airbrakes work
<ferram4>
It's possible, but the grid fins will either need to revert to the stock system or just not work
<github>
[RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQdTs
<Dasm>
The body texture is independent of the nose and mount texture
<blowfish>
indeed
<Dasm>
I can change other nose textures, but not the Soyuz nose
<blowfish>
hmm that one might only have one texture in this version of SSTU
<blowfish>
1.3 versions support full recoloring at least
<blowfish>
at least you can change the lower part to match
<Dasm>
Yup
<Dasm>
Pap: I figured out why I'm having such issue getting to the Moon right now
<Pap>
Dasm: what is it?
<Dasm>
Pap: I'm stuck trying to balance the ∆v requirement to get my TLI stage into orbit with the weight of the avionics required to support the stage to get the TLI stage into orbit
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<Pap>
Dasm: Yes, that is always the rub! Each KG in RO makes a HUGE difference
<Pap>
Alriight, I have to crash, night all
<Pap>
o/
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<NathanKell>
urff just missed Pap|Sleep
<NathanKell>
Dasm, you try that fix to the Mercury cap?
<Raidernick>
NathanKell, i just want to confirm something, the lem has tank bladders and csm doesn't right?
<NathanKell>
correct
<Raidernick>
ok, there seems to be constant confusion with people about pressure fed engines
<Raidernick>
they seem to think that means it doesn't need ullage
<NathanKell>
Forget if the descent stage did, but I know the ascent one did
<Raidernick>
and that the parts are broken because of that
<blowfish>
IIRC Orion's SM is planned to use 4 big surface tension tanks
<Raidernick>
NathanKell, do those tanks work similar to a candle wick or something to draw the fuel to where it needs to be in the tank?
<blowfish>
or does I guess, since it actually flew once
<ProjectThoth>
I'd imagine it works like that coffee cup.
<blowfish>
a coffee cup will definitely slosh around in 0g
<NathanKell>
Raidernick: yeah kinda IIRC
<NathanKell>
it's a thin mesh, so it does wicking
<NathanKell>
!tell Pap* is the omnidecoupling necessary?
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQdtF
<github>
RealismOverhaul/pap1723-ROupdates eacf054 NathanKell: More RD-253 configs, tweak base RD-253 config to be original (UR-500) config.
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQdtN
<github>
RP-0/Pap-TechTree 7c7deff NathanKell: RD-253 extra configs. Note @pap1723 it probably makes sense to move the costing here too if we're already doing the techs. So I did for this.
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
!tell Pap* Rover contract COMPLETED! \o/ One issue: It said I was supposed to get science from the sites, but I did not, only got science from completing the contract. Also, uh, you have Alpha/Beta/Charlie. If you want NATO phonetics, that'd be Bravo not Beta. ;)
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
!tell Pap* also why are Phobos and Deimos different reward levels?
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
borntosleep: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
[#5] title: R&D and pad with higher than normal levels reverts to base graphics | Found using RO/RP-0 originally, duplicated on stock+CBK and modded default config.... | https://github.com/sarbian/CustomBarnKit/issues/5
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<Theysen>
hiring new astronauts from the Astronaut Complex nullrefs and makes you having to restart the game with no other option than to not kill your current roster. I'll provide a log later on the githebs
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
is there a way to fix the Launch Pad upgrades? testing RP-0 doesn't really work if even after two upgrades the launch-pad can still only handle 20t ...
<Theysen>
thats correct
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it's not
<Theysen>
you start with way lower tonnage limits but many many more upgrades
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
no
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
they even say 'can handle 150 tons'
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I know the intervals are smaller, but you *start* with 20 tons
<Theysen>
did you build a second lp ?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
and Pap even said it's a known bug
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
uhm
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I went to Kourou and spent some upgrade-points on the VAB there
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I might have upgraded the launch pad there... once...
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
then went back to KSC :[
<Theysen>
gotcha.
<Theysen>
I have a slight feeling somehow KSC Switcher is screwy
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hm. let me check if the Kourou LP can handle more..
<taniwha>
KSC Switcher is very screwy
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
nope, same: 20t
<Theysen>
dang
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
what does KSC Switcher actually do? does it *create* launch sites, or does it just enable you to switch?
<Theysen>
it switches the coordinates iirc
<Theysen>
no idea how rp-0 handles it with KCT
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I don't think they work together well
<taniwha>
it just moves KSC
<taniwha>
but the problem is more in its save state handling
<taniwha>
I tried replacing it, but that broke KCT and it wasn't the time to start messing with KCT so I had to revert that
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hm. I'm not far in my career. if KSC switcher is causing these issues, I'd have no problem trying a new careeer without it
<Theysen>
Hypergolic_Skunk, do you have Kerbal Renamer?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
let me check, but I think yes
<Theysen>
Hypergolic_Skunk, would you mind open a sandbox save and spam new hires and see if it locks up for you
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
sure, np
<Theysen>
because I also switched sites before hiring and now I don't know if it happens when you do it in KSC instanty
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
uhm. I just created the sandbox save, went into the Astronaut complex, and hired all available personnel. is that what you meant? :)
<Theysen>
yeah
<Theysen>
can you leave the complex?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yeah
<Theysen>
rip
<Theysen>
can you before unhire everyone so you're at 0 astronauts and then hire some?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
before?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
new career? :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
errr, save
<Theysen>
oh sorry no
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
too late :P
<Theysen>
:D
<Theysen>
no worries, I'll see myself to recreate it
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so you want me to go into the Astronaut Complex, fire everyone, then hire?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
still works
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
only had a weird graphical bug
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
oh well. every KSP install is unique :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
going to start a new career without KSC Switcher now
<borntosleep>
did you try upgrading two things at once
<borntosleep>
two pads at once?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it could be.
<borntosleep>
go to the other and see if it is building
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
if it happened, it happened earlier in the career
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I just deleted that career, btw
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
restarting KSC without KSC Switcher
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
because, to be honest, the only purpose it had for me was to be a little bit more lazy for geostationary launches
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<taniwha>
!tell NathanKell* I am really looking forward to getting ModularStorageContainer up and running :P
<Qboid>
taniwha: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
Pap|Sleep: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
Pap|Sleep: Dasm left a message for you in #RO [14.07.2017 05:49:25]: "I loaded them into the game and they're both around 2.5m"
<Qboid>
Pap|Sleep: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [15.07.2017 06:15:55]: "is the omnidecoupling necessary?"
<Qboid>
Pap|Sleep: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [15.07.2017 08:44:44]: "Rover contract COMPLETED! \o/ One issue: It said I was supposed to get science from the sites, but I did not, only got science from completing the contract. Also, uh, you have Alpha/Beta/Charlie. If you want NATO phonetics, that'd be Bravo not Beta. ;)"
<Qboid>
Pap|Sleep: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [15.07.2017 08:50:43]: "also why are Phobos and Deimos different reward levels?"
<taniwha>
Pap|Sleep: o/
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<Pap>
o/
<taniwha>
just fixed MFT
<Pap>
Nice!
<taniwha>
the changes were simple, but finding them...
<taniwha>
(well, /initially/ finding them)
<taniwha>
this time, I think I'll test a bit before releasing
<taniwha>
pushed, though
<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* I changed it to omnidecoupling because the similar part (Gemini Nosecone Cap) had it and it worked great, this seems to work well, so I don't want to touch it ;)
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<taniwha>
and fortunately, there was a workaround: just use the tank-fill buttons in the PAW
<Pap>
What was the actual issue?
<taniwha>
tanks being initialized unnecessarily post 1.2
<taniwha>
and then various fixes dealing with 1.2/1.3
<Pap>
Ah, nice
<taniwha>
the "fixes" were just calling a certain function with false instead of the default true
<Pap>
^^^ I'll learn how to do that all someday :)
<Maxsimal>
I hate CC. Half the time I don't even know what I'm fixing with fixing syntax errors, just pulling apart functions more and more till the thing parses.
<Pap>
Maxsimal: I feel your pain
<Maxsimal>
I'm trying to fix a bug where the same line in one contract is throwing a syntax error that in another works fine :P
<Theysen>
Gif ze Vau-2 zurück, you sssiieef! LOL Hypergolic_Skunk
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:'D
<Pap>
Are you calling the data from a different place on either of them Maxsimal (internal or external?)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
oi le Pap o/
<Pap>
o/ Hypergolic_Skunk
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] PhineasFreak opened pull request #1707: [Maintenance] NAA-75-110 global engine config (master...RO-NAA-75-110-global-config-updates) https://git.io/vQdBa
<Theysen>
okay that career from plestsek turned out rather dark and nighty.
<Pap>
Which one Theysen?
<Theysen>
Russia, quite far north and thus dark
<Pap>
Ah
<Theysen>
ill go with vostochny
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: I removed KSC Switcher following some hints I received in the channel. even after several upgrades of the Launch pad, in the VAB the limit would still be 20t
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
let's see if the upgrades work now :)
<Pap>
Ahh, interesting, I didn't know there was a conflict there
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Could you take a look at these? I'm really close - I just have a contract that should be available, all its conditions are met, but it's not showing up, and there are no errors in the log, it parses.
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<Theysen>
are there any youtubers NOT doing SSTOs these days? We get it you're cool but it is boring af
<Pap>
lol
<Pap>
Theysen: Do you know of any good Solid Real Plumes for vacuum?
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<Theysen>
Pap, like already created ones`
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<Maxsimal>
Back, net trouble.
<Pap>
Yes, I want to fix the Baby Sergeant ones as they make me want to vomit and I wanted to post screenshots, but refuse to with that ugly plume
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<Theysen>
FASA Baby sergeants are screwed?
<Pap>
The real plume is very, very bad. I'll show you a screen
<Theysen>
Is it inside of the rocket?
<Theysen>
Use the single one from Ven's or wherever its coming from and build the stack yourself
<Theysen>
they are good
<Pap>
Ah, thanks
<Theysen>
But yeah, I think the position is off on the FASA's pap
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Any luck with those? On mine, after I do a flight past the karmen, SoundingDifficult is not available even though all conditions are met.
<Pap>
Maxsimal: HAven't tried yet, was in the middle of a save, will try soon
<Maxsimal>
Pap: No worries. :) I'm gonna go actually play for a bit instead of reloading the game over and over. I think there's just this one weird bug left and it should be done - I left a message for nightingale as well to ask what might cause it.
<Pap>
Maxsimal: I have had that same issue happen with contracts, I cannot remember how to fix it
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Sacrifice a chicken?
<Pap>
That's not the worst idea I have heard
<Pap>
As long as we can fry it and each it afterwards
<Pap>
s/each/eat
<Qboid>
Pap meant to say: As long as we can fry it and eat it afterwards
<Maxsimal>
Waste not... but yeah, I dunno. I'm happy with how it works, besides this, hopefully others will too. It's a nice workaround to trying to guage what people can manage just by their tech unlocks, and give progression within a set of contracts. Plus adding some delay to them will help with the pace of the early game.
<Maxsimal>
If you like them we should add a repeatable delay to some of the early manned contracts.
<Rokker>
UmbralRaptor: nothing like illegally breaking into a launch site to get some cool drone footage
<Rokker>
an active launch site
<UmbralRaptor>
:D
<Rokker>
UmbralRaptor: won't be long before someone decides they want to break off a chunk for a souvenier
* UmbralRaptor
imagines the security agencies being especially confused. "They did this to make a game?"
<Rokker>
souvenir*
<UmbralRaptor>
D:
<Rokker>
UmbralRaptor: and then another
<Rokker>
and another
<Rokker>
because people are disgusting and care more about taking something for themselves than helping preserve it for the future
<Rokker>
UmbralRaptor: you should see the wing of the F-22 at the museum
<Rokker>
it's grimy and worn down
<Rokker>
because people can't not touch ir
<Rokker>
it
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<Rokker>
UmbralRaptor: and the tail of the B-24
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<Starwaster>
nathankell|away, did the gimbal transform Z axis requirement exist prior to KSP 1.1? Is it possible that old models might have Z aligned differently and still be functional prior to 1.1?
<Theysen>
Pap, just a cosmetic issue: Can you tie the "first solar" satellite to the unlocking of the panels, so the contract progression doesn't render this contract parallel to the first artificial satellite :)
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<Pap>
!tell Theysen That is a great idea about the polar satellite
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
Maxsimal: I completed a 120km altitude contract. Nothing was available, so I simmed ahead 4 days and they were available again
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Check in your 'all' contracts under the sounding rocket set - there's supposed to be a sounding rocket (difficult) one available too
<Pap>
Maxsimal: yep, now I see the issue. It is showing as all requirements met, but as a Red X as not available
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Yeah exactly, and I don't know what the issue is, my ksp.log is not showing any errors for it.
<Maxsimal>
Pap: can you see if yours has an error?
<Pap>
No errors, I am looking at the actual contract now as sometimes there are no errors but CC doesnt linke somethign
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<Pap>
Maxsimal: I have no idea why this is not working
<Pap>
Hopefully Nightingale can shed some light
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Ok thanks. The only thing particularly different between that one and the soundingrocket Intermediate and Easy ones are the extra behaviours to store off the new difficulty setting and (possibly) a new max altitude. I don't know why it's not working either
<Pap>
The issue definitely has to be in one of those areas then
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Yeah but I've looked over those 3-4 times, nothing I see in there looks wrong.
<Pap>
I hear ya. I just looked ath they very closely and don not see any issues either
<Maxsimal>
Pap: thanks for taking a look. I appreciate it.
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Hopefully nightingale will get back to me soon.
<Pap>
The rest of the contracts are absolutely awesome though!
<Pap>
Alright, gotta run, have a good one everybody
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<Maxsimal>
Pap: Later!
<Maxsimal>
!tell Pap* The 1.8KS-7800, which I think is from the US rockets pack, belongs in 1958 SRB's, not orbital rockets, I think.
<Qboid>
Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it only took me half a day, but finally I managed to make a custom runway from Kerbal Konstructs the default runway on which planes are spawned <3
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<Dasm>
I came up with the perfect idea for a cheap, efficient orbiter system... The bottom stage would be a human rated SRB- like the shuttle used.. And the orbital insertion stage would be a cryo stage, maybe a J2 variant
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<NathanKell>
Starwaster: Added in 1.2, IIRC.
<Qboid>
NathanKell: taniwha left a message for you in #RO [15.07.2017 13:16:27]: "I am really looking forward to getting ModularStorageContainer up and running :P"
<Qboid>
NathanKell: Pap left a message for you in #RO [15.07.2017 13:29:18]: "I changed it to omnidecoupling because the similar part (Gemini Nosecone Cap) had it and it worked great, this seems to work well, so I don't want to touch it ;)"
<NathanKell>
taniwha: :)
<NathanKell>
Pap|AFK: Ok, best leave it then :)
<Pap|AFK>
Is there an easy conversion from KSP time in seconds to Y-M-D?
<Qboid>
Pap|AFK: Maxsimal left a message for you in #RO [15.07.2017 17:30:05]: "The 1.8KS-7800, which I think is from the US rockets pack, belongs in 1958 SRB's, not orbital rockets, I think."
<NathanKell>
there might be a web calculator?
<NathanKell>
!g convert seconds to years, months, days
<NathanKell>
Pap|AFK: Whatcha think about cost and entrycost and subtractors going in the tree cfg?
<Pap|AFK>
So you want to put all of the subtractors in the spreadsheet? Or are you asking somethign different?
<NathanKell>
Right now we have half the tree stuff (node name) in RP-0's new tree engine config patches, and the other half (cost, entrycost, subtractors) still in RO
<NathanKell>
I think I'd prefer that be united
<NathanKell>
THe reason before was because it would take too much work to add per-config patches in RP-0, but you already did that :)
<Pap|AFK>
Ah, yes, should definitely be in the tree then
<Starwaster>
nathankell ok 1.2 then, but the question remains, would a gimbal transform not oriented properly by current standards still have worked prior to then? Therefore not gimballing properly now?
<NathanKell>
Yes
<NathanKell>
Exactly so
<Pap|AFK>
How do the modifiers work? Are you talking about the ones that are in the Engine configs, or the other ones for the different parts?
<NathanKell>
the engine configs
<NathanKell>
Look at what I did for the RD-253
<Starwaster>
ok so that's probably why ProceduralSRB can't gimbal one one axis.... trying to fix it but the Unity source files don't look like the latest. Like they were scratch files for the final product
<Pap|AFK>
OK, so the cost is the amount you pay extra on the base config of the engine and then the entryCost is what you pay the first time you unlock it?
<Pap|AFK>
And then the modifiers essentially subtract the amount from before becuase it no longer costs as much to unlock
<Pap|AFK>
That makes sense
<NathanKell>
Starwaster: Tiberion did it, if he's still around
<NathanKell>
Pap|AFK: correct
<Pap|AFK>
OK, so I should start the process of moving those values over into the spreadsheet, then deleting them from the RO engine configs?
<NathanKell>
If you would yes
<NathanKell>
Also, I think you can generate the partupgrades that way too :)
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<NathanKell>
As long as they follow the rule of RFUpgrade_[configname] they should be generateable
<NathanKell>
Since the part name and config name are known by your spreadsheet, then everything can be programmatic :)
<NathanKell>
but I would say it's a low priority, just something to do if you get bored :D
<NathanKell>
it *works* fine the way it is
<NathanKell>
brb
<Pap|AFK>
Sounds good. I like to have multiple projects going on at once so when I get bored, I move to something new. I'll add this to it
<Pap|AFK>
NathanKell: Have you seen Maxsimal's Sounding Rocket contracts? They are even better than we were planning (I think)
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<blowfish>
Shadowmage is making Mercury, Gemini, and the VA capsule
<blowfish>
trying to advocate for accurate proportions as opposed to conforming to stock sizes
<Pap|AFK>
blowfish: he is also making Dragon V2 it looks like
<blowfish>
ah yeah
<Dasm>
blowfish: Is he doing the IVAs as well?
<Pap|AFK>
but yes, accurate proportions are ideal
<blowfish>
absolute size can always be changed, but proportions cannot
<Pap|AFK>
Exactly
<Starwaster>
omg I might have got it right this time... no errors...
<Starwaster>
and nope.... initializes without errors but same problem. Tiberion huh?
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<NathanKell>
back
<NathanKell>
Pap|AFK: Havne't yet, they sound awosome!
<NathanKell>
Starwaster: You could just change the hierarchy so the nozzle is childed to thrusttransform, and thrusttransform is made the gimbal transform as well as the thrust transform? That will ensure correctness
<NathanKell>
blowfish: Fingers crossed!
<blowfish>
NathanKell: sorry, what's going on?
<NathanKell>
your persuasion attempts
<blowfish>
ah :)
<blowfish>
seems to be going relatively well
<NathanKell>
\o/
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<Starwaster>
NathanKell I'll try it, but it's so finicky... PSRB that is.... about where its children are
<Starwaster>
blowfish who's trying to persuade whom of what?
<NathanKell>
ARGH
<NathanKell>
Alcentar fixed the NK-33 but the RD-253/275 is still screwed, and the RD-108 is worse than ever
<NathanKell>
Wait maybe the RD-253 is fixed
<NathanKell>
nm
<NathanKell>
we apparently apply a 1-axis gimbal to it
<Dasm>
Is there a formula I can use to find out how much weight something can send to LEO?
<blowfish>
Starwaster: Shadowmage of making accurately proportioned capsules
<Maxsimal>
Dasm: Not a simple one, but if you've got kerolox only, 3% is a good rough estimate. You can do better once you have hydrolox upper stages, ~5%.
<blowfish>
not much use for throttling or restarts on that particular engine I'd imagine
<Dasm>
I usually have problems getting my R7 into a stable orbit because of high TWR, BUT testflight hit me with a performance loss on the 108 engine and it made things a LOT easier
<blowfish>
just R7 or does it have another stage?
<Dasm>
I have a single AJ10 upper with enough dV for TLI on a small prbe
<Dasm>
probe
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 6 new commits to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQd93
* egg
glares at the one-frame offseting in OrbitDriver
<NathanKell|Twitch>
que
<ProjectThoth>
queue
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hm. despite having uninstalled KSC Switcher, the Launch-Pad upgrade still does not have any effect. still can only launch up to 20 tons.
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap|AFK: do you have a fix, or how did you launch something orbital? :P
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<Bornholio>
look in your save and see the kct data find if its stuck in upgrading something out there
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hey Bornholio :) what do you mean with 'something out there' ?
<Bornholio>
you had switcher before, see if its upgrading another launch site
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it's a new install entirely, new career too
<Bornholio>
hmm
<Bornholio>
CBK is installed correctly?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
CBK?
<Bornholio>
custom barn kit
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
have not changed it. the KCT upgrades worked fine a week ago. I can reinstall it, though.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
thank you :)
<Bornholio>
order of operation for the pads is CBK->KCT-RP-0 config
<Bornholio>
if Swtcher is not there
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah, so CBK enables mods like KCT?
<Bornholio>
yes, it allows modification to building rules
<Bornholio>
RP-0 sets a new config with various level modifiers using it
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
good to know
<Dasm>
Anyone home?
<Dasm>
I did the orbital crew contract.. and it didn't complete