<ProjectThoth> !wpn ProjectThoth
* Qboid gives ProjectThoth a dorsal type
<ProjectThoth> Oh.
<Dasm> I'm still having problems http://i.imgur.com/QBe8Ikt.png
<Dasm> Oh wait
<Dasm> That was my fault
<Bornholio> .kerosene in engine like fasa 105
<Dasm> No I loaded the tank, but not the engine tank
<Starwaster> lamont, how do you feel about altitude based as an alternate trigger for starting PEG? (thinking mostly of spaceplanes here where they might not necessarily want a pitch program)
<Starwaster> or do you have any other thoughts on how spaceplanes could be handled?
<Dasm> When I have to do an ejection burn but I forget to add a ullage
<lamont> sure?
<lamont> i don’t do planes much so haven’t thought about that at all
<lamont> seems reasonable-ish tho
<Bornholio> dasm if you have enough manuever rcs tro spin you could rotate in x or z (y is along rocket) you can get ullaged
<ProjectThoth> PEG?
<Qboid> ProjectThoth: [PEG] => Powered Explicit Guidance
<Bornholio> or if somehow you have enough sas
<NathanKell|Twitch> lamont: you around?
<NathanKell|Twitch> regarding MJ's now detecting HTP
<NathanKell|Twitch> The issue is that fuelFlow is computed using the *old* Isp
<NathanKell|Twitch> so yeah you do need to jigger it. Not Isp, but it.
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<NathanKell|Twitch> lamont: I'm getting 2m13.5s burn time on the boosters
<NathanKell|Twitch> I didn't notice on the prior launch, but it's here in the VAB
<NathanKell|Twitch> Basically maxFuelFlow is lying to MJ because of ignoreForIsp
<lamont> ah so the mass flow is wrong
<NathanKell|Twitch> so you need to multiply it by that ratio I computed
<NathanKell|Twitch> yeah
<NathanKell|Twitch> and mass flow is wrong because mass flow is computed from Isp and Thrust, OnLoad
<NathanKell|Twitch> so MJ does have to do the thing, just to a different field :]
<NathanKell|Twitch> That means the dV *is* wrong, btw
<NathanKell|Twitch> since it thinks it runs longer than it does
<lamont> yeah that makes sense
<Bornholio> Proc avionics is very cpu hungry in VAB when selected.
<Dasm> Is 77 HTP a lot?
<Dasm> High test peroxide?
<Bornholio> yes.
<Raidernick> ferram4, i have a solar panel that says it's blocked by aero shielding while in space, does that have anything to do with far?
<ferram4> Very possibly. I need more info though. What clever thing have you created this time?
<Raidernick> nothing new it's from a part i've had forever, a non tracking static panel
<Raidernick> you just stick it on the side of a satellite
<Raidernick> i know it used to work
<Raidernick> i just noticed that now it says it's blocked
<Raidernick> all the time
<ferram4> Okay, so how have you attached it?
<ferram4> And what have you attached it to?
<ferram4> And are there any exceptions?
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn ferram4
* Qboid gives ferram4 an irritating ellipse
<Bornholio> see that when you exit and return on some solar panels near or previously inside fairings
<ferram4> If it's happening on solar panels that were inside fairings, but the fairing parts are now gone, then the issue isn't with FAR.
<Raidernick> no exceptions that I see, at least not in the immediate scrollback, no fairing just spawned it on the pad
<ferram4> Something has broken completely within KSP and vessel events aren't firing properly then.
<Raidernick> it's a plain rectangular panel
<Raidernick> single part
<Raidernick> and surface attachs to the side
<Raidernick> of the terra satellite
<ferram4> And it uses ModuleDeployableSolarPanel, yes?
<Raidernick> yes but it has no animation or tracking obviously so that's omitted
<ferram4> What modules does the thing it is attached to have?
<Raidernick> the satellite has another tracking animated panel on it, and several of the stock probe science like bar pressure, temperature etc..
<egg|zzz|egg> so NK aside, would there be any interest in principia livestreaming if I magically happen to find time out of thin air
<NathanKell|Twitch> I mean, I'd love to watch it :)
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<ferram4> Does it have built-in RCS?
<egg|zzz|egg> NathanKell: that wasn't very clear :-p
<NathanKell> Ah :]
<leudaimon> NathanKell, are all RealEngines gimbals borked like that?
<NathanKell> leudaimon: No, yours (NK-9V) is clearly not
<Raidernick> ferram4, yes it does
<Raidernick> no engine though
<leudaimon> lol
<NathanKell> leudaimon: Just a few are
<ferram4> THat's the problem then.
<leudaimon> the models are so nice...
<ferram4> And that is not fixable on my end, the RCS will need to be made into separate parts.
<ferram4> FAR allows engines and RCS to override everything else.
<ferram4> To prevent those from being blocked.
<Raidernick> ferram4, the panel modules that are built in work though are only surface attachable panels the issue?
<leudaimon> the RD253 single axis thing is intentional, right? it makes its use so difficult
<ferram4> Yes, because what they would voxelize is overridden by the I HAVE RCS AND PRIORITY voxels of the main probe.
<ferram4> Either make everything one giant part, or separate it further.
<NathanKell> blowfish: Found the flag, trying
<ferram4> But I can't fix this without introducing worse issues.
<NathanKell> brb
<blowfish> flipYZ ?
<NathanKell> Yeah
<Raidernick> NathanKell, does stock support multiple recast transforms now?
<Raidernick> raycast*
<Raidernick> oops
<NathanKell> I don't remember, sorry
<NathanKell> Probably not? Dunno. Gotta ask someone current.
<NathanKell> Leudaimon I don't know if it's intention
<NathanKell> Check config cache
<NathanKell> Blowfish dang I worry I might have implemented the flipping wrong
<NathanKell> We'll see
<taniwha> just did a quick look. seems to be one raycast per thrust transform
<blowfish> taniwha might be able to help with editing the mu if that's the case :)
<NathanKell> Taniwha, raidernick is talking about solar
<blowfish> or just use Bobcat's I guess
<NathanKell> Yeah
<taniwha> ah
<blowfish> the RealEngines ones annoy me anyway - the fuel lines don't actually exist
<taniwha> and yes, I certainly /can/ help with mu editing
<blowfish> like, the place they're supposed to connect is just empty on the model
<Dasm> The payload fairing won't release my probe http://i.imgur.com/uVwGbbb.png
<blowfish> presumably because that's how it was in the reference screenshots
<Dasm> Can I edit the persistence.sfs ?
<blowfish> does the short payload fairing have a built-in decoupler
<Bornholio> stopped trusting the fairings to do so, always put decoupler in place
<Bornholio> dasm you could edit the fairing base into a decoupler
<taniwha> um, I thought proc fairing bases never had decouplers
<Bornholio> they say in VAB that they have that ability
<Dasm> Bornholio: This is the only time the fairing decoupler hasn't worked for me
<Dasm> I've used it 30+ times
<taniwha> only fairing bases I can think of that had decouplers were KW and maybe that old website driven one
<taniwha> Bornholio: relatively new
<Dasm> taniwha: I've been using it without a problem
<NathanKell> taniwha welcome to RO
<taniwha> Dasm: wasn't there when I started using proc fairings, and I failed to notice the addition
<NathanKell> Where things are sane
<taniwha> or they were added by RO
<taniwha> :P
<taniwha> I consider non-decoupling to be sane
<taniwha> but then...
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<Dasm> Bornholio: So how can I edit this thing apart?
<blowfish> editing the save file might be right at this point
<blowfish> be sure to back it up
<taniwha> also, better to edit a quicksave the the persistent
<taniwha> just plane easier if you need to iterate
<blowfish> see if you can find the module, edit isDecoupled to be false
<Bornholio> dasm you can find the proc fainring base and change it to a decoupler. I never Pers edit myself. others are better experts
<Raidernick> ok ferram4 combining the parts into 1 fixed it thanks I'll make sure to do that to all the other parts, you said it was unfixable by you right?
<NathanKell> blowfish: FlipYZ isn't working :(
<blowfish> Bornholio: based on discussion here it looks like it already is a decoupler
<blowfish> NK :(
<blowfish> risks of untested code I guess
<Dasm> blowfish: I found the vessel I think VESSEL { pid = 27e9752702264f3baecaee963dd6a7af name = Mariner I type = Probe sit = ESCAPING
<taniwha> NathanKell: case? looks to be flipYZ
<NathanKell> it's lower case in my patch too
<NathanKell> just auto-capitalized the sentence
<blowfish> Dasm: cool, now find the procedural fairing base and it should have a ModuleDecouple
<blowfish> if you send me the file I can follow along line by line
<Dasm> blowfish: Found it https://pastebin.com/yCAr74Tv
<Dasm> MODULE { name = ModuleDecouple isEnabled = True ejectionForcePercent = 100 isDecoupled = True stagingEnabled = True EVENTS
<blowfish> yeah, try changing isDecoupled to false
<blowfish> I don't /think/ capitalization matters
<Bornholio> False :)
<blowfish> for false vs False that is
<NathanKell> it does not matter when parsing a bool, AFAIK
<NathanKell> ok, put the NK33/NK9 in from BobCat. Let's trust there are no other issues.
<NathanKell> leudaimon: Yeah, it's another gimbal bug. RD253 has 2-axis gimbaling per cfg.
<Dasm> blowfish: Okay, I'll try
<NathanKell> leudaimon: Alcentar *really* needs to fix this stuff.
<NathanKell> I guess we should just descend en masse on the thread :]
<leudaimon> NathanKell, damn, I've done a big contraption with verniers thinking it was intended behavior
<leudaimon> lol, good idea
<Bornholio> Point your sword and say the word captain :P
<NathanKell> I mean, on the *real* Proton they probably do have only 1 axis gimbaling
<NathanKell> but RO supports 2-axis for them
<leudaimon> yeah, my 4-engine LV works fine
<leudaimon> for the 1-engine and 2-engine LVs I need verniers, and as there is no UMDH vernier, I have individual tanks for each vernier (and lots of verniers to allow MJ to control it)
<NathanKell> http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/154624-13-realenginespack-v16-superdrago-first-us-engine-in-rep-data-27052017/&do=findComment&comment=3116166
<NathanKell> leudaimon: You will be happy to know that the RD-8xx series verniers exist, on the Rocketry line :)
<NathanKell> They have crappy models however
<NathanKell> (they use the 24-77 model and the Model 55 model)
<leudaimon> well, I really don't like the idea of needing separate verniers in the first stage... and my uppers should work well with the RD-0110 vernier or even RCS
<NathanKell> When you only have 1 engine in the first stage, you need verniers
<NathanKell> How it works...
<NathanKell> Or turbopump exhaust but you're using closed cycle engines :]
<NathanKell> err, gg exhaust*
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<Dasm> blowfish: didn't work
<leudaimon> yeah... I'm aware of that... I frequently go without roll control in the first stage, even though it's not realistic at all
<Dasm> blowfish: I think its the probe that is making it stuck
<blowfish> Dasm: are you sure they're still attached
<Bornholio> Dasm is it stuck on an internode instead of the base?
<blowfish> like, are they two separate vessels?
<Dasm> blowfish: Positive, I can still control the engine
<blowfish> hmm
<Dasm> Bornholio: Like.. somethings up with the probe that isn't letting it decouple
<blowfish> still control the engine and the probe?
<Dasm> Raidernick: Are you around?
<Raidernick> yes
<ferram4> Raidernick, it is fixable... if I want to unfix engines and RCS having the same behavior.
<Raidernick> ferram4, ok i'll just combine the parts then I only have like 3 spacecraft that are separate
<Dasm> Raidernick: I have the mariner probe attached to the procedural fairing base and its not coming off, this is the only object I haven't been able to decouple, any ideas?
<Bornholio> Dasm i think you need to also edit the State = 1 but not sure
<Raidernick> Dasm, dunno
<NathanKell|Twitch> Pap: I just forgot to move the PARTUPGRADE I guess
<Dasm> Ohhh
<Dasm> If I turn the probe around it detaches
<github> [RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQiFf
<github> RealismOverhaul/pap1723-ROupdates ecb7e16 NathanKell: Fix RD-58 config PARTUPGRADE
<Bornholio> Good deal Dasm
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<github> [RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQiF6
<github> RealismOverhaul/pap1723-ROupdates 4f4e3a1 NathanKell: Passive antenna for Mariner core fixes
<NathanKell|Twitch> Dasm: SXT Mariner?
<NathanKell|Twitch> or Raidernick's?
<Dasm> NathanKell|Twitch: Raidernick's I think
<Dasm> http://i.imgur.com/bpqtTVH.png that one NathanKell|Twitch
<NathanKell|Twitch> ok, then I got nuthin, sorry
<NathanKell|Twitch> yep
<Dasm> NathanKell|Twitch: Well, it works when I flip it around
<Dasm> Any one know why backspace isn't working to focus back on my ship?
<Raidernick> it's ~
<Raidernick> not backspace by default anymore
<Dasm> Oops
<Dasm> Thanks Raidernick
<Dasm> I made a bird :D https://youtu.be/Z5wNeaf2mUQ
<Bornholio> did you just flip me the bird a couple of times
<NCommander> I SUCCESSFULLY WENT TO THE MOVIES
<NCommander> IT'S A MIRACLE
<Dasm> I keep breaking things
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<NathanKell> NCommander: \o/
<blowfish> NK: where those engine explosions part overheating or melting internals?
<Pap> ferram4: Did you open KSP and look at the ALT-F10 screen?
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<ferram4> Pap, no, I did not. I've checked KSP.log, I assumed any errors would be in there.
<ferram4> And I didn't see any.
<Pap> They are not in there, they are actually in the Contract Configurator folder
<NathanKell> ferram4: THe contract just doesn't show?
<ferram4> Nope.
<NathanKell> ferram4: if you made a new group, did you add it to the groups list?
<ferram4> I did.
<ferram4> THe Military Sats group shows fine
<Pap> NathanKell: that happens quite often when you have an error, the contract will just not show up at all
<ferram4> THe Military Missiles one does not
<Pap> But, the ALT-F10 screen tells all
<NathanKell> any exceptions should be in the main log...
<NathanKell> Check for all exceptions?
<ferram4> Well, in THOSE logs it says there's an error.
<ferram4> Doesn't way what though.,
<NathanKell> can you hastebin the error, and the contract?
<ferram4> I mean, as for errors in the logs, the most I've got to work with is:
<ferram4> [WARNING] ContractConfigurator.ContractType: Errors encountered while trying to load CONTRACT_TYPE 'FirstBallisticMissile'
<NathanKell> no exceptions at all, above that?
<Pap> No, NathanKell, CC stores them inside of its own log seperately
<NathanKell> didn't use to
<NathanKell> weird
<NathanKell> Ah, that's just what it displays
<NathanKell> the actual EXCEPTIONs should be in the main log, or were
<ferram4> There were no exceptions.
<NathanKell> ...
<NathanKell> ok
<NathanKell> lemme order dinner, brb
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<Pap> @ferram4 I will check them on restart. Give me 10 minutes or so and let you know what I find out
<Pap> o/ rsparkyc
<ferram4> Alright.
<rsparkyc> o/ Pap
<Qboid> rsparkyc: leudaimon left a message for you in #RO [08.07.2017 16:06:49]: "the proc avionics parts prices have a problem, the minimum price is always somewhere *not* at minimum utilization. For some configs it's even above 100%. My guess is this is due to the "tank" cost. Is there a way to fix this in the configs?"
<Qboid> rsparkyc: egg left a message for you in #RO [08.07.2017 20:48:41]: "FYI I got phl to review principia#1459, so principia#1452 is fixed at current head"
<ferram4> Pap, remember that I have already created an agency and a group for these, so you'll want to change those.
<Pap> yep, i will do that
<Dasm> I'm about to throw my computer out of the window, for some reason my engine wouldn't cut throttle when I hit X, and I can't focus view Venus when I have a maneuver node
<rsparkyc> leudaimon: i noticed that (about tank prices). that will be fixed when you can configure the amount of electric charge a probe core can hold
<rsparkyc> but that's not just a config fix
<leudaimon> ah ok rsparkyc cool
<Dasm> Its not letting me focus- this is definitely a bug
<leudaimon> it gets weird when minimal price is at 125% utilization
<rsparkyc> yeah, the more i've payed with that, the more i noticed that
<leudaimon> do you know the cause of that?
<Dasm> And I can't click the X on the maneuver node thing
<acharles> blowfish: KER lets you select your target from a list, if that’s what you were asking yesterday?
<blowfish> there may be more than one mod that does so. I was just commenting that there must be at least one.
<taniwha> NCommander: a LOT of progress on AdvancedInput
<taniwha> NCommander: have an in-flight debug window and my bindings are affecting actual flight controls :)
<Pap> ferram4 I screwed up the load, going to have to give me 15 more minutes to load it again
<Bornholio> there is a MJ suicide burn dV countere somewhere?
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<taniwha> Bornholio: yes
<Bornholio> remeber which topic its under?
<taniwha> not sure where (surface info? landing guidance?)
<taniwha> or even landing AP
<Bornholio> haven't used landing guidance in so long, should i trust it :/
<Bornholio> need to squeeze every last ounce of dV this time
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<NathanKell> ferram4: Apologies, back now.
<taniwha> Bornholio: Better Burn Time has a very good suicide burn indicator
<taniwha> dunno if it works for RO, though
<ProjectThoth> How does it calculate suicide burns?
<NathanKell> don't see why it wouldn't
<ferram4> Don't worry, I took the opportunity to do some paperwork.
<taniwha> gives only est burn and time to impact, but if you burn at just over 1/2 impact time, you'll be right
<taniwha> NathanKell: nor do I, really, since it assumes 100% throttle
<ProjectThoth> That was one of the biggest PITA problems when it came to modeling my own stuff.
<NathanKell> ferram4: Is there an existing contract that you based the waypoint bit off?
<NathanKell> ferram4: OH
<NathanKell> OH
<NathanKell> index = 1
<NathanKell> but it's zero-based AFAIK
<NathanKell> change that to 0
<ferram4> No, 1 is correct.
<NathanKell> wat
<ferram4> THere are two waypoints defined.
<ferram4> One on the KSC.
<NathanKell> ...oh
<ferram4> And another created near that to be a set-distance target.
<NathanKell> Is there an existing contract you can compare to?
<ProjectThoth> With a terminal velocity and a fixed acceleration (throttle), it's easily solvable. I'm guessing it's one of those weird iterative solution problems, if you're trying to solve for the delta-v exactly.
<ferram4> I don't believe we have anything that is based off the KSC, but the thing is, I tried this with a random waypoint as index 0 and it still borked.
<taniwha> need some deadzone support: http://taniwha.org/~bill/screenshot4167.png
<ferram4> Possibly I'm missing something for the RANDOM_WAYPOINT_NEAR block, but I don't know what it would be.
<ferram4> Oh. I think I know.
<ferram4> index should be nearIndex
<Pap> ferram4: This is a different kind of error, all of the contracts are gone, usually CC just hides the one that is an error
<Pap> ferram4: yes, that is what it needs to be, shouldn't kill the whole pack though
<ferram4> Uh, then you broke something different.
<ferram4> Because I don't get that.
<Pap> ah, must have been a copy / paste issue
<ferram4> Pap, are you adding your weathersatbus and comsatbus resources to RP0 or to RO?
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<Bornholio> landed on moon, 787dV in base, 1479dv in ascent get home stage Unknown DV in RCS in return pod...Looks grim
<Pap> ferram4: they are in RO
<Pap> ferram4: the issue is I didn't move over your agencies so that is why nothing is showing for me
<ProjectThoth> Bornholio: I thought lunar return was like 1.5 km/s.
<ferram4> Ah. Okay, so we will need to define a new resource then.
<Pap> 3rd time is the charm
<ferram4> Warhead
<NathanKell> ferram4: also, try with a different waypoint icon, like 'marker' ?
<ferram4> Custom is exactly what's used in the other things that work.
<ferram4> So that's not it.
<ProjectThoth> Wait... I'm an idiot, it's closer to 3-4 km/s with ascent losses. :<
<Pap> ferram4: the nearIndex will break the contract and not let it load, that is most likely the issue
<NathanKell> ferram4: line 98, change to nearIndex = 0
<NathanKell> ?
<ferram4> Yes, I've done that.
<ferram4> I am waiting for it to load.
<NathanKell> ok
<ferram4> My HDD is very slow
<NathanKell> also you betta hope that terrain alt is <=5km :P
<NathanKell> unless altitude = 0 is in AGL
<ferram4> An altitude set for 0.0 is placed on terrain level or water level.
<ferram4> Yes, I have checked these things.
<NathanKell> \o/
<Pap> lol
<NathanKell> then I'll shut up, cuz I have no more ideas :D
<ferram4> Besides, it's not like you'll find a 5km high plain anywhere.
<NathanKell> I was digging through GAP, since that uses RANDOM_NEAR
<NathanKell> and they work
<ferram4> Even in the Himalayas, you can land between the mountains.
<Pap> GAP is a detailed and sprawling Contract Pack and is a really good one to use ideas from
<ferram4> Do we have a way to detect when the player has access to storable fuel tech for engines, and when they have access to large solids?
<NathanKell> yes
<NathanKell> check if a tech node is unlocked
<Pap> ^^^ this
<ferram4> Excellent. The missile contracts can be made more strict.
<ferram4> Early ones will be okay with kerolox.
<ferram4> Later, well, don't be stupid.
<NathanKell> GLUSHKO UBER ALLES
<ferram4> I'm also going to add contracts for cruise missiles.
<Pap> NathanKell: is Maxsimal working on the tagging of the parts, or is he doing something else for Launch Costs?
<ferram4> Less because they were a big thing back then, more because it'll be a good challenge.
<NathanKell> he's trying them out I think. But it's worth tagging them in the xls regardless
<NathanKell> ferram4: They led to the big engines on both sides, IMS
<NathanKell> at least for us they did
<ferram4> Get to X point without going over Y altitude with Z time carrying W units of Warhead.
<NathanKell> for them, IIRC Buran had some serious early tech
<NathanKell> (that-Buran)
<Pap> So ferram4 and NathanKell, I think we should have the Military RP-0 contracts as a separate contract pack inside of RP-0. What I mean is that when you are starting up a new save, you can pick and choose which contract packs to have through the difficulty settings. By moving the military contracts "outside" of the RP-0 core contracts, we can set them as completely optional to even show up
<ProjectThoth> RS-440 was kinda like a Soviet Navajo, then?
<NathanKell> I'd say yeah that or a submod
<ferram4> That works, I guess.
<NathanKell> cool
<ferram4> In that case, should the Warhead resource be included in that, or still in RO proper?
<Pap> ferram4: let's get these integrated with BD armory and config it for RO and get some real weapons!
<ferram4> Because I'm gonna need something to act as payload.
<Pap> NathanKell: shouldn't be a problem to config it in RO, correct?
<ferram4> nearIndex was not the only issue
<Pap> It doesn't hurt anything if it sits there not being used
<Pap> ferram4: I only have 5,000 more MM patches to load to help figure it out
<ferram4> It informs me that the error is in WaypointGeneration
<Pap> alright, let me look at your waypoint generation again
<ferram4> Pap, NathanKell, what is the exact name for the KSC PQS_CITY?
<Bornholio> 620dV left+RCS 786dV to return home from moon. Can i get a cheaper return than mj?
<ferram4> Is it just KSC?
<Pap> KSC, but it is case sensitive and yours is lowercase
<ferram4> Then that is the only one remaining, I think
<NathanKell> I would say, if you don't mind, let's do it as a submod then, and it can MM in the resource. That *also* means we can MM-modify various other costs and payouts and things based on the presence, or not, of the pack.
<ferram4> Excellent.
<NathanKell> pizza here, back later!
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<ferram4> Yep, I'm gonna load in a fixed version and confirm.
<ferram4> If it works, I'm gonna launch a V-2 to complete that.
<Pap> Nice!
<ferram4> Well, assuming that waypoint is in the right spot.
<ferram4> I should be able to use similar configs to set the recovery site for the film buckets for spy sats as well.
<Pap> Shit! I already created a contract like this 3 years ago, I should have shared it with you! Completely forgot about that until now
<ferram4> *shurg*
<ferram4> I'll add a timer for how long the vehicle has from launch to get there, and possibly a height requirement to avoid cruise missiles.
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<ferram4> Timer should probably force ballistic missiles though.
<Pap> ferram4: just add a ReachState Parameter that it must go SUBORBITAL
<ferram4> Well, that requires getting out of the atmosphere, right?
<Pap> yes
<ferram4> Depending on the design of the SRBM or IRBM, they might actually not.
<ferram4> Up to 80-100 km, certainly. But 130 km? Not necessarily.
<ferram4> Yes for ICBMs though.
<Pap> You could set a ReachState minAltitude = 85 km
<ferram4> That'd probably work.
<Pap> Would stop cruise missiles
<ferram4> I'll set it nice and low at 65 km. Too high for cruise missiles, well below any kind of ballistic missile.
<github> [RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQiA7
<github> RealismOverhaul/pap1723-ROupdates affc309 pap1723: Probe Core Overhaul...
<github> [RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQiAb
<github> RP-0/Pap-TechTree 652c08e pap1723: Probe Core Overhaul, Flyby Contract Fixes...
<ferram4> It loads, but there is a problem.
<ferram4> It assumes that you must have completed SoundingRocketLow
<ferram4> Unfortunately, I blew right past all of those.
<Pap> Ah, you can uncheck that requirement for testing in the ALT-F10 menu
<ferram4> Well, unfortunately I didn't see that before I exited, so I just went and added a check to see if the 130 km altitude record that ends low sounding rockets is hit and open it on that as well.
<ferram4> Pap: So, as it turns out, based on the location that was generated, the first trajectory isn't necessarily even going to go to space.
<ferram4> Considering that I'm controlling range by cutting the engine.
<Pap> Too close?
<ferram4> Well, yeah.
<ferram4> But I'm setting the initial contract close
<ferram4> Hmm... maybe 5km leeway is too little.
<github> [RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQipU
<github> RealismOverhaul/pap1723-ROupdates cfdc1d8 pap1723: Early Controllable Core Tank Needs to Be Fuselage
<Pap> Yeah, that might be too easy
<ferram4> No.
<ferram4> It seems too difficult
<ferram4> I've thrown 3 V-2s at the target, and they've all failed to get close enough
<Pap> ohhhhh, yeah, in RL the V-2 needed to hit London, so that is a large target area
<ferram4> But it's still really difficult.
<ferram4> Remember, the waypoints don't give us coordinates.
<ferram4> Nor do we have any good tools for quickly figuring out which long/lat we'll hit.
<taniwha> waypoints might not give lat/lon, but there /are/ tools
<github> [RealismOverhaul] pap1723 closed pull request #1677: BDB Apollo Configs (master...pap1723-BDBApollo) https://git.io/vH7fC
<github> [RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQipZ
<github> RealismOverhaul/master bac3a47 Pap: Merge pull request #1677 from KSP-RO/pap1723-BDBApollo...
<github> [RealismOverhaul] pap1723 deleted pap1723-BDBApollo at ebd5849: https://git.io/vQipn
<taniwha> CelestialBody has some, and there's a LatLon class that may be of interest
<taniwha> (I know because I worked on them :P)
<Pap> ferram4: Waypoint Manager and Trajectories might be necessary to accomplish some of the missions
<taniwha> well, the CB ones.
<ferram4> Trajectories can't be required.
<ferram4> It has weird buggy behavior.
<taniwha> you sure? the only issues I know of are it's lack of knowledge of staging and the massive amounts of PEBCAK because nobody tells it to check retrograde using the AoA setting
<ferram4> Also, I can't tell if the actual waypoint is at the point of the marker, or if it's somewhere else.
<ferram4> Because the point seems to be off by a bit.
<ferram4> taniwha: It's recently been causing NaNs to be thrown from FAR, at least in 1.3 dev. No idea how bad it is in 1.2.2, but I imagine not much has changed and I'm only getting reports because people are looking now.
<taniwha> ah, well, ok, yeah
<taniwha> I have to admit to last using it back in 1.0.4
<taniwha> ferram4: would it be reasonable to make it so something like Trajectories can tell FAR to ignore certain parts when voxelizing? (for the stage knowledge issue)
<ferram4> No, it's not that.
<ferram4> It's that whatever Trajecotires is doing passes in a NaN at some point.
<taniwha> different thing
<taniwha> stage knowledge issue is that Trajectories uses the vessel in its current state rather than what will actually be entering the atmosphere
<ferram4> And the stage knowledge issue is not something that can be fixed due to the way that vessel aero data is structured.
<taniwha> so it's impossible to accurately use Trajectories to plan a pod reentry
<ferram4> So long as you have other stuff attached, yes.
<taniwha> what about creating a fake vessel?
<ferram4> That sounds like a good way to create fucktons of garbage and break everything.
<ferram4> No.
<Bornholio> pap did you break hydrolox icons or did i
<Dasm> I made a space thingie that has 5 SaturnV engines... and it broke the launch pad
<taniwha> ferram4: well, that makes Trajectories pretty useless for anything but aerobraking :(
<taniwha> (for space-atmo interfacing)
<taniwha> great for planes etc if used appropriately
<Pap> uh oh, what do you mean Bornholio?
<Bornholio> i am missing them in R&D screen but they are in my folder
<Bornholio> rl10 for one, see it in the branch in the right place also
<Pap> let me exit out of this test and look
<Pap> Bornholio: looks like I screwed up Orbital Rocketry 1961 and all the RL10 nodes as well
<Pap> It is a case sensitivity issue
<Bornholio> ok i was going insane trying to figure out what i messed up this time
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<Bornholio> didn't help when notepad++ RL10 looks just like R110
<Pap> ever notice in Windows that when you sometimes change the case of a filename, it stays the same as it was?
<Bornholio> want me to make the changes? you go back to your test
<Pap> I was testing parts, not school test (this time)
<Pap> But yes, that would be great
<Pap> it should be RL10
<Pap> and H1
<Bornholio> k
<Dasm> Can one of you please show me a picture of Venus with RVE installed?
<Dasm> SVE?
<Pap> Dasm: don't use it, sorry
<Dasm> The visual enhancement thing
<Bornholio> i can in 15 or so
<Bornholio> RSSVE you mean
<Dasm> cool Bornholio thanks
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<github> [RP-0] Bornholio opened pull request #718: fix lost of capital RL and H inicon references (Pap-TechTree...patch-2) https://git.io/vQihz
<ferram4> Pap: So I need to do more testing, because I don't know if I'm missing the target or not.
<ferram4> But so far, 10+ V-2s thrown and no successes.
<Pap> hmmmmmmmmm, that might be a contract error then
<Pap> Might not even be on your end
<ferram4> *shrug*
<Dasm> Can someone please help me? Something is.. bad https://youtu.be/HsKykXe-O1k
<Bornholio> do you have parts that are clipped into the ground on start, move the whole thing up
<Dasm> Fixed
<Bornholio> venus https://imgur.com/a/KvdU6
<Bornholio> added a surface shot from 50km
<Bornholio> .poke dasm
<Dasm> Covered in acidic clouds
<Dasm> To be expected
<Dasm> That atmosphere is thick AF
<Dasm> Thanks btw :D
<Bornholio> yes it is adding one more
<Bornholio> lower level clouds
<Bornholio> blew up at 15km do to pressure and heat :)
<Dasm> That 15KM shot looks cool
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<NathanKell> o/
<Bornholio> can't wait to get enough tech to try manned landers in Paps tech tree
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<Pap> \o/ borntosleep
<Pap> NathanKell: what is the most ComSatBus on a contract? Ballpark it, don't look
<NathanKell> 10k
<Pap> Woah, that will be a big satellite ;)
<NathanKell> Wait, I think I halved it
<NathanKell> it'll be the max of the RepeatComSat
<Pap> ok
<NathanKell> I don't think you generated anything larger than that
<taniwha> Pap: Space Cowboys ;)
<taniwha> (slightly silly movie, but it was rather fun)
<NathanKell> Pap: I also suggest setting Category = -1 for the deprecated parts if you haven't yet
<NathanKell> that'll make them not show up in sandbox either
<Pap> ahh, great, I did not do that
<NathanKell> sorry, category
<NathanKell> lower case c
<NathanKell> Should also add entrycost modifiers just to ease the pain :]
<NathanKell> I'll do that now
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<Pap> I cannot wait to play with these and launch them for real contracts
<NathanKell> :)
<Pap> Has 10,000 EC, 4000 ComSatBus, 1200ish units of Bi-Propellant
<NathanKell> \o/
<NathanKell> nice!
<NathanKell> Oh, and *extra* points for spelling it deprecated, not depreciated...
<Pap> And last image, that is the Large Boeing 702 Satellite below it: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/329685702247841792/333841676235964418/unknown.png
<Pap> Ok, my geeking out has ended
<Pap> lol, yeah depreciated is the value of my car the second I drive it off the lot, deprecated is old, bad parts that need to go bye bye, :)
<github> [RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQPeC
<github> RP-0/Pap-TechTree 0346cd7 NathanKell: ECMs for the deprecated cores, and also the Surveyor <-> 1t bus
<NathanKell> wow, that's a big ol' thing!
<Pap> 2m x 3.2m x 3.6m, those things are huge!
<NathanKell> Pap: Indeed. But some people just like to play the rouge [sic]
<NathanKell> (that's the other common one)
<Dasm> Burning to the Moon on an AJ10 service module engine ><
<Dasm> 1.3 TWR
<Dasm> .13*
<Pap> Funny you should post that, my uncle said the one thing that he could not grasp and is still awed by, is the sheer size of things that they work on
<Pap> Jesus, these Boeing 702 sats (in RL) have a dry mass of 3800 and a wet mass of 6400
<NathanKell> That's...quite dense
<NathanKell> Oh! Before I forget, and while you have your xls open
<NathanKell> can you shift the RD-8xx verniers back to 1964 Rocketry?
<NathanKell> 855/856, they are
<NathanKell> they're currently in 67
<Pap> both of them?
<NathanKell> yeah
<NathanKell> they're technically 65 engines, the '64 model of the R-36 used other things, but that's better than 67 IMO
<Pap> ok, I don't have a part that uses these engines
<Pap> nevermind, yes I do
<NathanKell> please also do the same for 'RO-RealEngines-RD-856' which is about to exist
<github> [RP-0] pap1723 pushed 3 new commits to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQPeS
<github> RP-0/Pap-TechTree 11c2b17 pap1723: Move RD-855/866 to 1964 Orbital Rocketry
<github> RP-0/Pap-TechTree 3940387 pap1723: Merge branch 'Pap-TechTree' of https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0 into Pap-TechTree
<github> RP-0/Pap-TechTree e31f8d8 pap1723: Revert "Move RD-855/866 to 1964 Orbital Rocketry"...
<github> [RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQPed
<github> RP-0/Pap-TechTree 52ad10f pap1723: Move RD-855/856 to 1964 Orbital Rocketry
<github> [RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQPep
<github> RP-0/Pap-TechTree 602979f pap1723: Add RO-RealEngines-RD-856 to Tree
<Pap> Alright, that is done, and I am going to sleep now, have a good night all!
Pap is now known as Pap|Sleep
<NathanKell> Pap|Sleep: Good night!
<github> [RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQPeh
<github> RealismOverhaul/pap1723-ROupdates 70ff351 NathanKell: Add RD-856 clone from RealEngines (clone of RD-0110 vernier)
<NathanKell> !tell leudaimon* if you pull, you'll now have a non-ugly RD-856. Enjoy!
<Qboid> NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Dasm> NathanKell|Twitch: I'm getting a weird bug in the VAB where I can't click and move my parts, you want an output?
<NathanKell|Twitch> alt-f12, clear input locks
<NathanKell|Twitch> also check console for anything being spammed
<NathanKell|Twitch> beyond that, dunno, sorry
<Dasm> I tried that
<NathanKell|Twitch> then it's probably time to start stripping uncecessary mods, if it keeps coming back
<NathanKell|Twitch> does it keep recurring?
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<Dasm> NathanKell|Twitch: I restarted and it was okay
<Dasm> That thing had like 4600Dv
<taniwha> neat
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<NathanKell> Dasm: Congrats on the landing!!! :)
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<Dasm> :D
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<Starwaster> really? Really bornholio? Only 6 hours and 9 minutes of sleep?
<Bornholio> children
<Bornholio> more like cat and son, cat had to be retreived at midnight and sone got up at 4:30 :/
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<soundnfury> !tell Dasm I've seen something like that before, hover over a part and the controls freeze up. Zooming in tends to fix it; maybe something is occluding
<Qboid> soundnfury: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Pap> o/
<taniwha> hey, pap
<Pap> Hey taniwha
<taniwha> debug/test window, but it works for analog input :)
<Pap> Joystick controller interface?
<taniwha> (and some buttons9
<taniwha> yeah
<taniwha> talking as directly to the linux kernel as C# can
<taniwha> (very thin layer doing the ioctl/select stuff stuff)
<taniwha> (C layer)
<Pap> brb
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<taniwha> Pap: if you're interested in looking under the hood: https://github.com/taniwha/AdvancedInput
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<Bornholio> !tell pap,leudaimon Proc Avionics has a serious lag issue in VAB when selected (rightclick) not sure what made it start. Getting to improved avionics or some recent change. Took 2-3minutes to be able to deselect it by right click outside of it.
<Qboid> Bornholio: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap> Bornholio: that sounds like a fun bug!
<Qboid> Pap: Bornholio left a message for you in #RO [10.07.2017 13:18:58]: "Proc Avionics has a serious lag issue in VAB when selected (rightclick) not sure what made it start. Getting to improved avionics or some recent change. Took 2-3minutes to be able to deselect it by right click outside of it."
<Bornholio> yeah for bugs
<Bornholio> yeah and it really needs to work because the fixed hardware it too specific to diameters and doesn't ugrade over tech. (or does it?)
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<Pap> Bornholio: did you see the Probe Overhaul?
<Bornholio> was it last night?
<Pap> yes
<Bornholio> yes i think i got that in.
<Bornholio> It deprecated the slim ECC?
<Pap> Yes, it wasn't setup correctly as it basically had free avioinics. We also deprecated the Surveyor Core
<Pap> Essentially the models got flipped as it makes more sense now
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<Bornholio> I can't see usin the Early Cube Sat bus so heavy for what you get. If i add a Proc upperstage with ECC or even just use an able. does it do something i'm missing?
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<Maxsimal> !tell NathanKell* Btw, I left some notes in a new issue on the git. I'll still test out tag usage for the BP formula, but I'm not sure if rollout costs is the best place to do encapsulate integration cost variability, after I gave it more thought. Let me know what you think.
<Qboid> Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Theysen> http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/158851-130-commnet-constellation-v102-3-june-2017/ I wish we could do this stuff with RT. Especially the subnetwork stuff limiting GEO constellation e.g. for TV communication or other specific uses.
<Theysen> would expand nicely on contracts and we could give satellites for actual communicating purposes more spice
<Pap> Bornholio: The Early Cube Sat is more for the looks than anything else
<Pap> Theysen: according to the OP, it was designed by one of the RT developers as a test bed for what they are rolling out in the new RT (if that ever gets created)
<Theysen> Pap, oh right. I should read the OP fully :D
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<Theysen> then that's even better
<Pap> If that is the case, that would be awesome
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<Maxsimal> Pap: o/
<Maxsimal> Theysen: Btw, I'm thinking of advancing my timetable to be on the moon by the end of 1951 for a real challenge.
<Theysen> Maxsimal, manned?
<Theysen> I don't understand how you get around the dev times with the new tree :D
<Pap> o/ Maxsimal
<Pap> Theysen: I think they are launching these things without the proper "safety" procautions and engines
<Bornholio> do not tune RP-0 to maxsimal :P other people playing consistently ask if they should be running time forward
<Theysen> Pap, no I did the math with every cent put into R&D and you can't have the capsule in 1951
<Maxsimal> Theysen: Yup
<Theysen> so that's what I don't get
<Pap> Theysen: That is true, he must be sending the X-1 Cockpit
<Theysen> Oh right I forgot. And what under it? Aerobees? lol
<Bornholio> you can 70 science in the first week, and make multiple sounding contract per day if you have no value for your life
<Maxsimal> Theysen: I'm almost up to 1 science point of research every 3 days, and it's mid April.
<Theysen> Maxsimal, what's the eta then on orbital rock and capsule? Or really X-1?
<Pap> Maxsimal is essentailly speedrunning the game, his goal is not to play a simulation, but to see how far he can push the bounds of the game to accomplish goals as quickly as possible
<Maxsimal> Bornholio: I haven't been quite that bad. I did ¬ 1 sounding rocket per 2-3 game days.
<Pap> Just like the guy who just beat Zelda without getting a sword (or some crazy shit like that)
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<Maxsimal> Theysen: My eta is still in 1952, but I figure in May or June I'll get to the juicy commercial satellite contracts and I'll be able to get my research speed up quite a bit higher.
<Theysen> Maxsimal, I hope you don't get agathorned then on the lunar lander!
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<Theysen> looking forward to it
<Maxsimal> Theysen: Possible, but I'll just send another capsule, I never claimed I wouldn't kill any astronauts :P
<Theysen> I like your approach :D
<Theysen> I also love how the reputation is basically -infinity after you kill one
<Maxsimal> Theysen: Hahah. Well, rep is meaningless now other than free funds from fundraising.
<Theysen> Maxsimal, oh you're using the admin building?
<Bornholio> pap can the comsat/weathersat bus requirements round from -.5 below contract listing, so rounding does not catch someone off guard. (ie i have 113.96 units of weathersat bus (shows114) but contract cannot complete.
<Maxsimal> Theysen: Yeah, 25% fundraising.
<Theysen> Maxsimal, aye then things slowly make sense to me!
<Hypergolic_Skunk> ok. Luna orbit, here we go. third time's a charm.
<Maxsimal> Theysen: Yeah, it can add a fair bit of money from certain milestones and contracts.
<Pap> Bornholio: The contract is stating that it requires 114, but it doesn't actually?
<Pap> Hypergolic_Skunk: You aren't streaming, so it didn't happen
<Bornholio> it does require exactly >114, but i have what displays as 114 but is not exactly >114.0000
<Hypergolic_Skunk> Pap: I won't stream before I have comsats in place, and I wont build comsats before I have reaction wheels :p
<Pap> Hypergolic_Skunk: get the new update with the Probe Edits
<Pap> Bornholio: I always go 1 unit higher for that very reason, but I do not think that we can set that limitation using CC
<Hypergolic_Skunk> I wanted to reply, forgot I was still in the KSP window, and staged....... early...... grrrrrr
<Hypergolic_Skunk> Paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap :D
<Bornholio> required units are integer?
* Pap looks non-chalantly around and backs away from Hypergolic_Skunk
<Bornholio> muhahaha
<Pap> Bornholio: ah, you are saying set them as an integer only?
<Bornholio> I'm saying set them half a unit low so they always round up in display
<Pap> Bornholio: You will have to let Nathan Kell know, he has modified them to a point where I don't want to touch them and mess up his numbers
<Bornholio> lol, k
<Pap> Bornholio: even if you round up, won't you run into the same problem? (or as so often happens in this channel of smart people, am I missing something?)
<Bornholio> if the requirement under the hood is 113.5 but displays 114, as long as my value (wich is also rounded) shows 114 them will meet requirements
<Pap> Oh, you are just saying to display a higher number than what is required? That might get tricky for NK, but is possible (with some work)
<Bornholio> I'll take a looke at how it rounds and displays and see if what i'm asking is sane
<Maxsimal> I think what Bornholio is asking for makes a lot of sense. If the requested amount is always X.500001, then it will always display as X+1. And if your display shows you have X+1, even if you have X.54, then you're ok.
<Bornholio> either way the safe thing is as you say pap, overprovision a tiny bit :)
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<Hypergolic_Skunk> OKAY.
<Hypergolic_Skunk> fourth time's a charm.
<Hypergolic_Skunk> ...
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<Theysen> Hypergolic_Skunk, quicksave exactly for those goofups
<Hypergolic_Skunk> you're right. I should make use of that. Reverting is disabled, but not quicksaves..
<Hypergolic_Skunk> parking orbit achieved :p
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<Pap|Work> o/
<leudaimon|work> o/
<Qboid> leudaimon|Work: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.07.2017 05:44:56]: "if you pull, you'll now have a non-ugly RD-856. Enjoy!"
<leudaimon|work> I wonder where in the (old) tech tree is this vernier NathanKell|AWAY mentioned...
<Pap|Work> in the old tree?
<leudaimon|work> yep, for the RIS game
<leudaimon|work> he said it is a UDMH vernier, but I never saw it...
<Pap|Work> heavyRocketry I believe (don't know what that node is called, but that is the nodeName)
<leudaimon|work> ah, ok... probably correct name, as it exists
<leudaimon|work> probably not very useful for me in that node, as I want to use it as a vernier for the rd253... but once I unlock it will use
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<Pap|Work> Anyone use Quassel?
<regex> yes
<Qboid> regex: egg left a message for you in #kspacademia [09.07.2017 10:30:47]: "sure, sounds convenient (re. gamedata with save)"
<Qboid> regex: egg left a message for you in #RO [09.07.2017 17:45:59]: "so it turns out your was Proc SRB's, not mine, I have redirected as needed; you'll want to track Starwaster/ProceduralParts#3 for the continuation of this saga"
<Bornholio> yes but NAE
<leudaimon|work> funny thing Pap|Work is that I had looked for it in the tree.yaml in master... probably with a different name, right?
<Pap|Work> leudaimon|Work: yeah, it is one of the modified engines I think
<Pap|Work> I need to figure out how to set up Quassel as a server so I can just log into it at work
<regex> and now I finally have an idea for what to do with that useless Pine 64 board I have...
<Pap|Work> Thanks regex
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<Theysen> http://imgur.com/a/5CrLY is that worth playing?
<regex> Speak 3 Client is pretty boring unless you have some friends online at the time.
<Theysen> dang i knew it
<Theysen> :(
<Theysen> that free ripoff / clone of BARIS I have there to be specific :D
<regex> Never played it or BARIS but if its a ripoff/clone I've heard BARIS was pretty good.
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<Dasm> Hullo!
<Qboid> Dasm: soundnfury left a message for you in #RO [10.07.2017 11:44:05]: "I've seen something like that before, hover over a part and the controls freeze up. Zooming in tends to fix it; maybe something is occluding"
<Dasm> tell soundnfury Thanks
<Dasm> Wait
<Pap|Work> Theysen: I was first introduced to BARIS through that game. It is a direct port without Buzz Aldrin's name attached. If you like killing astronuats, it is the game for you
<Bornholio> dasm did you have a proc avionics selected?
<Dasm> Bornholio: Nope
<Dasm> But restarting the game fixed it
<Dasm> Bornholio: Do you ever use flyby finder?
<Bornholio> have not always use MJ
<Dasm> MJ does multiple body launch window finder?
<Bornholio> if you look at the porkchops you will see the single flybys
<regex> Dasm, no, get KSP TOT for that
<regex> Pay attention to the instructions for getting it working with RO/RSS.
<Dasm> Trajectory Optimizarion tool confuses me even more
<regex> It's pretty easy to use if you're looking for flybys.
<regex> I've done some crazy fun stuff in stock with it, in RO it should be even mroe fun
<Dasm> I want to fly by Venus>Earth>Jupiter or Venus>Mars>Jupiter
<Dasm> Get them gravity assists
<regex> And KSP TOT can do that.
<Dasm> It looks like Pioneer 10 went Earth>Mars>Jupiter
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<regex> !tell egg I'll package up the GameData and save file tonight, although I'm not sure if Dropbox can handle it, might have to put it on one of my company servers.
<Qboid> regex: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<KevinStarwaster> and here comes the weather to knock out my electricity. I hate Talquin
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<Dasm> 14.5k m/s Dv seems a bit excessive
<Dasm> Unless that's for capture orbit
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<Starwaster> dasm it does have departure and arrival deltav selected
<Starwaster> your earliest departure time is after the earliest arrival time...
<Dasm> OH!
<Starwaster> dunno how TOT deals with that. Hopefully it waould have some sanity checking but it's been awhile since I used that
<Starwaster> can it also calculate gravity boost flyby? I forget
<Starwaster> looking down below it does look like it picked sane departure and arrival times for you in spite of what you entered
<Starwaster> in the output window
<Dasm> Wait, I entered something bad?
<Starwaster> well you entered a departure time in year 6
<Starwaster> but an arrival time in year 3
<Dasm> Ohhh
<Starwaster> but like I said, in spite of that it plotted a departure time in year 2 and arrival in year 5 so it doesnt look like it caused any problems
<Dasm> Earliest arrival should have been year 8
<Dasm> http://i.imgur.com/kRmmlA4.png this Starwaster
<Starwaster> sweet. I'll have to try that again
<Starwaster> can it also handle Earth itself as one of the flyby points
<Dasm> My CPU is crying, I think I put in bad parameters
<regex> yes, it can
<TonyC> hi everyone
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<regex> That probably does include capture Dasm. You can quite easily perform some orbital ballet off Callisto, if you're willing to spend the time, to reduce that considerably.
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<Dasm> regex: I think I just gave it bad info https://pastebin.com/n1NpEWF8
<regex> huh
<Dasm> That's Earth>Mars>Earth>Jupiter
<regex> You might have to widen the departure window if you have one set
<regex> I've done direct Hohmanns for less
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn regex
* Qboid gives regex a stinger
egg|zzz|egg is now known as egg
<egg> Qboid: you have mail for me
<Qboid> egg: regex left a message for you in #RO [10.07.2017 16:50:34]: "I'll package up the GameData and save file tonight, although I'm not sure if Dropbox can handle it, might have to put it on one of my company servers."
<regex> succinct
<Dasm> regex: I'll give it a 6 year search window
<Dasm> What is a reasonable transfer time earth>jupiter ? About 3-4 years right?
<regex> vOv sounds about right. Give that departure window like, 12 to twenty years, Jupiter has a twelve year orbit
<regex> and give the travel time something like, I don't know, six to ten years since you're going to get some bounces.
<regex> set it for like, four to ten years.
<regex> should encompass a lot of scenarios
<Dasm> I can just insert the travel time between each node individually
<Starwaster> Juno took like 5-6 years didnt it?
<Starwaster> 5 years
<Starwaster> 4 probably isn't unreasonable then
<Dasm> I'm allowing for 200 days between earth and mars and 4.2 years between earth and Jupiter
<leudaimon|work> how does it deal with the parking orbit plane? flyby finder put me a litittle off because it assumes an equatorial orbit
<NathanKell|WORK> I didn't think flyby finder did assume one. I know TWP does, which is why I don't use it
<Qboid> NathanKell|WORK: Maxsimal left a message for you in #RO [10.07.2017 13:42:19]: "Btw, I left some notes in a new issue on the git. I'll still test out tag usage for the BP formula, but I'm not sure if rollout costs is the best place to do encapsulate integration cost variability, after I gave it more thought. Let me know what you think."
<NathanKell|WORK> you're using the RSS version of flyby finder yes?
<Sarbian> NathanKell|WORK: I ll have a look at that ISP. I might me able to get the proper value if I save the propellant mass somewhere
<leudaimon|work> NathanKell|WORK: last time I used it, it gave delta-v from a equatorial orbit, or from a given orbit it considers ideal, but it doesn't give the LAN or anything to help finding the actual orbit in a sane way
<regex> KSP TOT should allow you to enter an inclinations/ArgP/etc... when asking for the burn information
<regex> but I see you're talking about something else.
<leudaimon|work> regex: my question is, when it calculates departure delta-v, can you state what is your parking orbit?
<NathanKell|WORK> Sarbian: It's quite simple actually, I looked more last night
<NathanKell|WORK> Sarbian: When you calculate RatioDensitySum, calculate it twice. once while ignoring ignoreForIsp stuff, and once without. Then multiply maxFuelFlow by (ratioWith / ratioWithout)
<Dasm> regex: Starwaster Does this seem more reasonable? https://pastebin.com/6JjGGbfj
<Sarbian> NathanKell|WORK: You smart. Me not smart ;)
<NathanKell|WORK> Sarbian: :]
<NathanKell|WORK> I had to spend a while proving in my head that was correct :P
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<regex> dasm why is the ejection burn so much?
<regex> does that include getting to orbit?
<Dasm> regex: Looking at the Earth ejection.. it looks like I'm supposed to launch and not even go to orbit
<Dasm> Straight to Mars
<regex> leudaimon|Work, if you're talking about KSP TOT then the tutorial for it indicates that you can specify the initial orbital conditions when asking for an ejection burn. For Flyby finder, I have no idea. My confusion, sorry.
<regex> Dasm that makes more sense then, seems pretty good to me
<Dasm> But I think I did it wrong again http://i.imgur.com/vh4OQQ6.png
<leudaimon|work> cool regex, I was talking about KSP TOT... that seems very nice, I'll give it a try for a venus -> mercury flyby sometime, my next objective in my current playthrough
<Dasm> OH!
<Dasm> leudaimon|Work: You can edit the initial orbit parameters with TOT
<NathanKell|WORK> but the problem is we want *it* to tell *us* the initial orbit parameters :P
<Theysen> import it live from a test probe you got in orbit
<regex> pfffft.
<Dasm> NathanKell|WORK: No kidding, How do I do this? regex What should my SMA be?
<regex> vOv
<regex> seriously, I always think of the tools as tools, it takes me to make sense of them.
<leudaimon|work> yeah NathanKell|WORK that would be ideal... but even accurate delta-v for a departure from the lunar plane is better than nothing
<NathanKell|WORK> should ask Arrowstar on his thread
<regex> I use KSP TOT to find the right time to make a transfer, then put stuff in orbit and make all the maneuvers myself.
<regex> I use it for estimation.
<leudaimon|work> regex, but to put the thing in the best possible orbit demands you to know what is that
<regex> so I'm probably not as demanding as you guys in terms of automation because I enjoy setting up maneuvers and such
<Theysen> Get your probe in orbit, import the orbit into KSP TOT via the Plugin, Calculate, Upload the maneuver node into KSP while having the probe active, profit
<regex> There's that too.
<NathanKell|WORK> leudaimon|Work: even if TOT just gave the ejection angle (off Earth's orbit), then you could set up a polar orbit to achieve that
<NathanKell|WORK> so that's fine
<regex> but sorry, I seem to play the game a lot differently that you guys
<NathanKell|WORK> regex: muh delta vees!
<regex> bigger rockets
<Theysen> Dasm, 800km SMA is inside the core of the earth
<leudaimon|work> yeah, I have to understand better how this thing with the polar orbit works... never got to grasp it well
<NathanKell|WORK> ok, so: you get how you generally want to eject forwards or backwards along Earth's orbit, right?
<leudaimon|work> yeah
<regex> Ah, polar ejection burns.
<NathanKell|WORK> ok. So launch into the polar orbit that is aligned with that ejection vector
<Theysen> Dasm, SMA for a standard 180km parking orbit is 6461km
<leudaimon|work> oh, and that doesn't send you off plane?
<NathanKell|WORK> leudaimon|Work: no, the time of burn is used to control that
<Dasm> Theysen: How do I import the orbit into TOT? Is it the Orbital operations console?
<NathanKell|WORK> depending on where along the orbit you eject, that determines your off-plane angle
<Theysen> Dasm, install the KSP TOT plugin which comes with it, then go into the flight scene of the vessel. Then right click iirc on the orbital parameters windows and choose import from KSP
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<Theysen> something like that
<NathanKell|WORK> so you get that component for free (by varying when you burn) instead of having to spend delta V to get it, or launch into the right inclination and LAN
<Dasm> Oh! I can right click the window
<regex> How to translate ejection angle to LAN?
<leudaimon|work> hum, I think I understand... but don't you need the rignt LAN anyway?
<Dasm> This is a pretty powerful tool
<NathanKell|WORK> you do yeah
<leudaimon|work> or you just launch into an orbit paralel to the sun?
<NathanKell|WORK> you could, and then spend normal during the ejection burn
<Dasm> I usually match my inclination with the moon
<NathanKell|WORK> still fairly cheap
<regex> No because your ejection angle will be better off-angle from the sun in most cases.
<NathanKell|WORK> leudaimon|Work: but the nice thing about polar is you can visually match the ejection angle
<leudaimon|work> cool
<NathanKell|WORK> instead of trying to match the LAN+inclination from a different orbit, which is rather harder, in polar you only have to match 1 term
<NathanKell|WORK> that's why it's easier
<Theysen> NathanKell|WORK, I'd love to see some short "off TTT" tutorial for those ejections and transfers if you ever find the time :)
<NathanKell|WORK> shimmy did it better than I
<NathanKell|WORK> find his Cassini livestream
<NathanKell|WORK> it's on youtube, Raidernick linked me it IIRC
<Dasm> Okay! Cool! I think I got it, once my orbit was actually calculated, I got a much more reasonable Dv Cost: Total Mission Delta-V = 7.847 km/s
<leudaimon|work> still higher than a direct trajectory to jupiter Dasm
<Dasm> Hmm
<leudaimon|work> unless that includes orbital insertion
<Theysen> NathanKell|WORK, Oh right! I remember now that je did that, thanks!
<NathanKell|WORK> :)
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<Dasm> leudaimon|Work: I think the plane change is pretty expensive
<Theysen> Mission Architect is even more powerful for those things Dasm, it's all explained in the tutorials
<Dasm> leudaimon|Work: Orbit Normal Delta-V = 2016.174 m/s That means I have to burn 2016 Dv just to correct the plane, right?
<leudaimon|work> yeah, what is you orbit Dasm?
<Dasm> leudaimon|Work: This what you want? https://pastebin.com/7zEjFgwk
<leudaimon|work> my question was more like what did you aim for in your parking orbit... did you align with the moon plane or the ecliptic?
<leudaimon|work> btw, how do you have a negative SMA?
<NathanKell|WORK> hyperbolic
<Dasm> OH! Right, I didn't align with anything - and don't ask me, Its just negative
<leudaimon|work> this is your orbit after departure, right?
<leudaimon|work> eccentricity is also bigger than 1
<leudaimon|work> ninjaed
<Dasm> leudaimon|Work: This is my parking orbit
<Pap> I have some values for you guys to use if you want to work with TOT and multi-flybys
<leudaimon|work> no way
<Dasm> I just imported something I had in orbit to see how this thing works
<Dasm> And the SMA is 6.6k
<Dasm> I don't know where tot got -4400
<leudaimon|work> so what you sent in the link is not your orbit...
<Bornholio> SMA should always be from center
<Bornholio> is ToT altitude
<Pap> Here are some common transfer times from and to planets in RSS with some delta-v estimates: https://www.dropbox.com/s/clhi5v5el1ol6o8/RSS%20Transit%20Times.xlsx?dl=1
<leudaimon|work> NathanKell|WORK: about the cassini livestream you mentioned earlier, any idea how I can find it? who is shimmy?
<Theysen> leudaimon|Work, I can link it
<Pap> I was trying to get to the outer planets, so I skipped Mars, will probably add that later
<Pap> leudaimon|Work: ShimmyTheJJ is a streamer that made a couple of videos on gravity assits in RSS
<leudaimon|work> ah cool, that makes searching easier Pap
<Theysen> leudaimon|Work, 5 hours stream: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/84374639
<leudaimon|work> thanks!
<Pap> Theysen: he also made one specifically for getting gravity assists, he made it as a tutorial
<blowfish> hmm ... we could maybe make the SSTU upper stage tanks useable in RO by removing the RCS and support tank functions. That would require a couple of changes in SSTU's code but not that much
<blowfish> would that be useful?
<Theysen> arent they usable right now? oO
<blowfish> I'm not sure the RCS part works properly
<Pap> blowfish: that would be useful, they work right now and those things are completely eliminated in RO
<Bornholio> screws with solar and other things with far
<Bornholio> alot of times you get items that caount as shielded
<Pap> What would really be useful is being able to use the Support Tank feature as a procedural avionics slider
<Dasm> leudaimon|Work: So my question was- is this right? I'm assuming that this transfer is more expensive than it needs to be because I didn't launch into the correct plane: http://i.imgur.com/zZryGaO.png
<Pap> They currently give infinite avionics
<blowfish> Pap: it looks like RO keeps the RCS module
<Theysen> i can even change the propellants
<Bornholio> how do we fix that with something like a mechjeb module can
<Pap> blowfish: the RCS yes, not the tank setting like stock SSTU, sorry, I should have been clearer
<blowfish> or rather, deletes the current two and creates a new one
<blowfish> okay, so you have integrated RCS but need separate RCS tanks
<Pap> correct
<blowfish> is it helpful to have the integrated RCS even though you can't integrate the tanks?
<Pap> blowfish: that is one of my favorite features of those tanks (which I why I use them as often as I can)
<NathanKell|WORK> yes it is blowfish
<NathanKell|WORK> you can always attach a couple sphere tanks
<blowfish> ok cool
<blowfish> NathanKell|WORK: I guess this means I misspoke during the stream a week ago or so then
<leudaimon|work> Dasm: if you are in a random orbit, it's possible this higher price is due to that
<regex> What's Shimmmy
<regex> What's Shimmy's username on Youtube?
<Pap> regex: ShimmytheJJ
<Theysen> regex, no plan if he exports to YT
<Pap> He does Theysen, well, that is where I saw his gravity assist tutorial
<leudaimon|work> I found a video by him on yt about transfers, not sure if it's the gravity assist one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utCurLS1Xlo
<NathanKell|WORK> leudaimon|Work: that is exactly the video I was thinking of.
<NathanKell|WORK> That demonstrates the 'hyperedit a dummy craft into the right plane' method
<Theysen> ^ although you have to make sure you manipulate your eccentricity to something =/= 0 by hyperedit, I had issues without doing that in the past
<NathanKell|WORK> yeah, needs to be like 0.00001
<leudaimon|work> man, that's complicated
<Pap> huh, good to learn
<regex> Oh, it's basically a "launch sat", nice
<Pap> This GPS Network contract is the most complicated contract I have ever written—by far
<Pap> 24 satellites that need to commmunicate with each other and the ground in 6 different orbital planes
<leudaimon|work> how much of a payout will you give for that?
<Theysen> Can we have the payout of that in real money and probably a new nerve system? :D :D
<regex> lol
<regex> Do it in six launches
<Pap> 10,000 per satellite advance (240,000)
<Pap> 750,000 reward
<Pap> 5 years to complete,
<Pap> 360,000 penalty for failure
<Theysen> Did you cut the early 4 sat payout ?
<Theysen> because if not that's no motivation at all :D
<NathanKell|WORK> I did
<Theysen> Ah roger
<Pap> ^^
<Theysen> props to everyone who will ever have that constellation up and running
<leudaimon|work> ah, that was so awesome
<NathanKell|WORK> It now pays, what, ~60k advance, ~130k finish on hard?
<Pap> Don't worry NathanKell|WORK you will get to launch GLONASS instead
<NathanKell|WORK> Pap: :D
<Bornholio> HALFASS?
<leudaimon|work> btw, I see you guys got these comm arrays to contracts to work, what is the trick?
<Theysen> That's the part of KSP where a "manager" system comes in handy.. fly the basic mission once, let the rest be done by AI with a certain amount of funding or so..
<Pap> Theysen: that mod used to exist
<leudaimon|work> that would be nice, I'm able to output one comm sat and one wheather sat every 10 days or so, but it's soo boring to make this much launches
<NathanKell|WORK> I'd like a system where you design an LV and then contracts can use it
<Theysen> it would have prevented me from destroying that 4 satellite single stack launch upon payload "separation" where I brutally killed all 4 by crashing the upper stage into it. went all proton with the direction of sep motors on that one..
<Theysen> NathanKell|WORK, exactly this
<regex> you specify a payload and it puts it on the LV
<regex> That would be great
<Theysen> A tycoonish function
<regex> KSP desperately needs that
<Theysen> build and proof the functionality, let the rest work in the background
<regex> career mode fails because you have to tend every launch and maneuver
<Theysen> especially with the big and many sat contracts we have now. But then people might argue to just give a monthly funding *simulating* the contracts by paying you money..
<Bornholio> realfuels guys can you peak at my boiloff_disable config i'm working on http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/88409-realism-overhaul-discussion-thread/&page=62#comment-3116779 don't normally write these things.
<regex> Theysen, I'm considering adapting some mods because I can
<regex> t bear to play contracts anymore
<Theysen> regex, sorry I fail to follow the meaning of that statement :(
<regex> So I'm really liking KCT and I want to have money and upgrades and all that management stuff, but I don't care for contracts in the least. They piss me off for some reason.
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<regex> I've been playing with KCT formulas trying to solve this and I know there's a budget mod out there which I'm thinking of trying out as well.
<NathanKell|WORK> yep, please do try out the budget mod :)
<regex> Pap, it's not you, seriously. Would you rather me in here complaing about how boring the career is or would you rather I try to solve my problem?
<Theysen> both, i like the mix ^
<regex> lol
<Pap> regex: I was just kidding around, I agree that something like monthly budgets along with milestone contracts would be ideal
<regex> I could handle that, to build up rep, but I really, really, really hate grinding sats or sounding rockets.
<Pap> regex: the funny thing is, so do I, but I like have the milestone contracts to "guide" me along
<leudaimon|work> general exploration and science gathering is nice too... it's just the grindy contracts you do just because you have nothing better to do right now that is a little boring
<Theysen> you can warp through that :^)
<regex> yes but /when/ do you warp?
<leudaimon|work> my min-max mind doesn't allow me
<regex> when I get bored?
<regex> Oh look, it's 1999
<Theysen> regex, nah after unlocking all nodes I need until I get them (and after I spent enough points into dev rates)
<Pap> 1999! Prince tells us it is time to Party!
<Theysen> do the next big milestone, build upon that.. in the old tech tree it gets you far fast, new one might actually benefit from more money
<Bornholio> it does not matter what year it is just party like its 19999
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<Pap> Humans will be extinct by 19,999
* Theysen doesn't give humankind another 200 years
<leudaimon|work> yeah, the video by slimmy is nice, but his second method is not worth the effort, it doesn't make that much of a difference to have an LV that allows you to get into an inclined parking orbit
<regex> vOv I guess my ming just doesn't work with RP-0 career mode. Doesn't work with stock, either. I don't need "ideas", I have tons of them and all those contracts are getting in the way of launches.
<NathanKell|AWAY> Regex you need programs and monthly budgets
<Dasm> Theysen: I opened up mission architect and my mind is exploding
<Theysen> Dasm, yes I should have warned you XD
<Dasm> Theysen: Soooooo you said there's a tutorial for this huh
<regex> NathanKell|AWAY, yeah, science mode fills the void somewhat though.
<regex> but I enjoy the complexity of KCT with upgrades, quite fun
<Theysen> Dasm, for stock yes :D it comes in the folder
<regex> So i'll be shopping around and report back
<Pap> regex: Take a look at the State Funding mod (taken over by Linuxguru) as it is customizable and will reward based on certain acheivements
<regex> Nope
<Pap> Don't like that one?
<regex> I want a straight budget based on rep milestones, I don't want "guidance".
<Theysen> OOoooo Shadowmage going to do Gemini, Mercury, TKS, VA capsules series *_*
<Pap> Theysen: I want the engines, not the Capsules :)
<Theysen> na dude, I want one suite which has it all for RO/RP-0. And SSTU clearly is the favorite atm.
<Dasm> Theysen: The mission architect only has stock engines available.. sooo
<Pap> Theysen: I actually 100% agree with that
<Sigma88> anyone here knows how to get which renderer objects I am seeing on the screen?
<NathanKell|WORK> Sigma88: there must be a way but I don't know it
<NathanKell|WORK> regex: Problem is for rep-based funding to make sense, you need some system of increasing rep based on what you do
<NathanKell|WORK> and for that you either need something like 'contracts that pay only in rep' or you need a Programs setup that pays lump sums on completion
<NathanKell|WORK> (programs very like our _major_ milestone contracts)
<NathanKell|WORK> oh and that reminds me, since we're talking about BARIS now
<NathanKell|WORK> Theysen: that isn't a clone of BARIS, that **is** BARIS
<NathanKell|WORK> with the 'BA' stripped off for copyright reasons, but that is the same codebase and assets.
<NathanKell|WORK> it's FOSS now.
<NathanKell|WORK> (and had been in active development for decades)
<Sarbian> Sigma88: did you try Renderer.isVisible ?
<NathanKell|WORK> Sarbian: but that requires iterating over all objects no?
<Sarbian> it does. it depends on the use case :)
<Dasm> Yup, my mind is broken now
<regex> NathanKell|WORK, yes, milestone contracts are fine.
<NathanKell|WORK> Sarbian: Oh, there is one danger. Make sure you compute revised flow *after* you check for zero flow and then compute it from thrust and Isp.
<NathanKell|WORK> Which you would be, but...just be aware :)
<Sarbian> I am still fighting with GCMonitor code and KSP asset loading/unloading for now...
<regex> RP-0 still does the basic milestones, right? In which case you can award rep for those instead of having contracts.
<Sarbian> I wish I knew what the hell is going on when Main Menu is reached and a bunch of asset seems to be unloaded
<NathanKell|WORK> regex: yes those could easily be rep only
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<Pap> NathanKell|WORK: Why continue to use RemoteTech instead of CommNet? Is it still very different?
<NathanKell|WORK> Yes. It has cone angles for dishes, it has flight computer, it has signal delay
<NathanKell|WORK> (note: the latter two are the same thing internally)
<Pap> Signal Delay is the worst
<Pap> lol
<Pap> That makes sense though
<NathanKell|WORK> But there are some things in commnet I really like
<NathanKell|WORK> especially the antenna-relay distinction
<NathanKell|WORK> antennas are easy
<NathanKell|WORK> relays are hard
<NathanKell|WORK> we *need* that in RO
<regex> ^^^
<Pap> I am really hoping the RT guys are still working towards the integration / re-write
<Sigma88> Sarbian: no I didn't try that
<Sigma88> thanks for the suggestion
<regex> NathanKell|WORK: question about the rep, if you remember, is it capped? What's the meter's scale?
<NathanKell|WORK> Ah! Sarbs is here!
<NathanKell|WORK> Sarbian: I don't suppose CBK overrides the rep curve, does it?
<Bornholio> its http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/47632-forum-feature-highlight-the-reputation-system/
<NathanKell|WORK> that's in GameVariables too
<Sarbian> No. I noticed that I don't override a few things. Anything is possible :)
<NathanKell|WORK> because it would be veeery nice if it did. Then we could make rep linear
<NathanKell|WORK> and not *(@%@ stupid.
<NathanKell|WORK> :]
<Sarbian> Yeah, those damned devs !
<NathanKell|WORK> Bornholio: yeah, I snooped in the dll after you talked about it the other day
<NathanKell|WORK> Felipe~~~~~
<NathanKell|WORK> it's capped at +/- 1000
<regex> Thanks NathanKell|WORK
<NathanKell|WORK> it's also some crazy thing where it applys it in grains
<NathanKell|WORK> bleh
<Bornholio> which one NK
<NathanKell|WORK> (and via the curve)
<NathanKell|WORK> Bornholio: KSP's
<Sarbian> Crap, I can't even hope to complain in person then
<Bornholio> ah
<NathanKell|WORK> Sarbian: ikr
<regex> Bornholio, I have a substantial amount of forum points, the forum is not capped.
<NathanKell|WORK> he makes the stupid game and then skeedaddles before we can cuss him out
<NathanKell|WORK> regex: Haw
<Bornholio> ha ha at least it has a sane formula
<NathanKell|WORK> Sarbian: you'll *probably* also need to reflectively clobber the range in the ReputationSystem scenariomodule
<NathanKell|WORK> iirc it's a protected
<NathanKell|WORK> >.>
<Sarbian> As if it has ever stopped me
<NathanKell|WORK> ikr
<NathanKell|WORK> just obnoxious
<Sarbian> And I am sure I could get it changed for 1.3.1 if needed
<regex> It's hilarious that privacy scoping means effectively nothing
<NathanKell|WORK> Sarbian: True, true. In fact it'd be nice if it were in GameVariables
<NathanKell|WORK> a certain named-after-a-NASA-spaceflight-center dev might be able to help
<Sarbian> It means more complex code, which make support a pain
<NathanKell|WORK> ^
<Sarbian> And for your rep unit I think it is in Mega Pence
<NathanKell|WORK> As with many things in code, it works by making one's life harder :P
<Sigma88> hmmm I don't think the object I want is between the "visible" renderers
<Sigma88> >_>
<Sigma88> I need to get the green part
<Sarbian> There is a green part ?
<Sigma88> the grass
<Sigma88> out the window
<Sarbian> oh
<Sigma88> it has a fog effect
<Sarbian> Did you try DebugStuff to get the object name ?
<Sigma88> yes
<Sigma88> shift does nothing
<Sarbian> :(
<Sarbian> no collider I guess
<Sigma88> do you see the blue rim on the horizon?
<Sarbian> barely
<Sigma88> I can change that using RenderSettings.fogcolor
<Sigma88> but the ground still eludes me
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<Sigma88> this is the list of visible renderers
<Sigma88> I thought it was "Plane"
<Sigma88> but nothing I do to it seems to matter
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<lamont> sarbian: i think i want to get the PEG PR merged soonish
<lamont> i need to track down a couple of bad exceptions the caching code throws though
<lamont> and then push all the new work on my branch
<Sarbian> ok, we should merge it in the rss branch I guess ?
<lamont> what about just dev?
<Sarbian> I ll try to set up jenkins today
<Sarbian> dev works
<lamont> working off of long-lived feature branches makes me very twitchy and eventually produces horrible merge conflicts and trashed histories...
<Theysen> NathanKell|WORK, I figured so yeah. I still have to try playing it properly, just skipped a few minutes and got overwhelmed :D
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<NathanKell|WORK> Theysen: http://peyre.x10.mx/BARIS/
<NathanKell|WORK> read that
<NathanKell|WORK> and its tutorials etc
<NathanKell|WORK> o/ Maxsimal
<NathanKell|WORK> responded on git
<Theysen> NathanKell|WORK, thanks Awesome!
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<Maxsimal> Hey, just reading that now
<Maxsimal> NathanKell: And testing out the tag-based multipliers
<Bornholio> pap RL10 think the Vens version is not surface attaching
<Bornholio> http://imgur.com/vTWZqDh grey center one
<Dasm> Theysen: This is hard
<Theysen> Bornholio, Ven's ist the one with the tank ring
<Maxsimal> NathanKell: After a quick test, setting KCT_Preset_Part_Variables { Module_Variables { ModuleTagAvionics = 10000000000 }} in RP0_KCTPresets.cfg didn't make a difference in build times for avionics units. I don't see a [X] variable in KCT that applies this multiplier in the EffectivePartFormula either, though there could be an undocumented one.
<Bornholio> !tell pap http://imgur.com/vTWZqDh grey center one (not vens) SXT or Fasa? does not surface attach.
<Qboid> Bornholio: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<NathanKell|WORK> maxsimal did you add the tag to the part?
<NathanKell|WORK> Maxsimal: @PART{*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAvionics]]:AFTER[RP0] { MODULE { name = ModuleTagAvionics } }
<NathanKell|WORK> then change the preset cfg, then in KCT swap away from RP0 and back to it to reload the preset
<NathanKell|WORK> then try building something
<Maxsimal> NathanKell: Hrmm, ok - sorry where do I add @PART{*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleAvionics]]:AFTER[RP0] { MODULE { name = ModuleTagAvionics } } ?
<Maxsimal> NathanKell: I'm a newb when it comes to modding KSP, everything I know is based on conjecture rather than experience.
<NathanKell|WORK> ok, lemme back up then :)
<NathanKell|WORK> I only created the modules in code
<NathanKell|WORK> you will need to add them to parts as you see fit
<NathanKell|WORK> Pap is talking about, in the medium term, using his spreadsheet to do the tagging. But for now, for testing, you will need to do the tagging yourself
<NathanKell|WORK> so create a new cfg file in the RP-0 folder and call it, say, Tags.cfg
<NathanKell|WORK> put that bit of MM code in there
<Maxsimal> Ok, with you so far
<NathanKell|WORK> sorry, not AFTER[RP0] but AFTER[RP-0] I think
<NathanKell|WORK> anyway, the main point is you want it to run *after* RP-0 adds avionics to eveyrthing
<NathanKell|WORK> avionics patches run on FOR[RP-0], see https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/blob/master/GameData/RP-0/Avionics.cfg#L15
<NathanKell|WORK> so you want yours to run AFTER[RP-0]
<NathanKell|WORK> hastebin me the cfg you make and the changed KCT preset and I'll have a look
<Maxsimal> Ok gotcha. I think I need to do some reading on how MM actually works as well.
<NathanKell|WORK> brb
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<Sigma88> I feel like KSP is trolling me
<Sigma88> :D
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<Bornholio> taste the rainbow feel the rainbow one color at a time :KSP
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<Sigma88> hehe
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<Theysen_> i like it, it's a launchpad in the middle of a rape field
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<Maxsimal> !tell NathanKell* https://pastebin.com/Gfvd6CiY
<Qboid> Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Maxsimal> !tell NathanKell* That made no difference.
<Qboid> Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Sarbian> NathanKell|WORK: I m to tired to make sense of the math tonight. Push me the ISP changes later or I ll do it when I am actually awake on an evening...
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<Starwaster> theysen a... rape field?
<NathanKell|WORK> Sarbian: make a new temporary float, call it d2. Assign it using the *old* propellantDensitySum thingie you had, that you replaced. Then do your current propellant density sum thing. Then say maxFuelFlow *= (propellantratiodensitysum / d2)
<Qboid> NathanKell|WORK: Maxsimal left a message for you in #RO [10.07.2017 21:04:53]: " https://pastebin.com/Gfvd6CiY"
<Qboid> NathanKell|WORK: Maxsimal left a message for you in #RO [10.07.2017 21:11:20]: "That made no difference."
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<NathanKell|WORK> Maxsimal|AFK: use this as your cfg https://www.hastebin.com/xovahakoqa.rb
<NathanKell|WORK> Sarbian: I can send you the real thing when I get home
<Maxsimal|AFK> NathanKell: K, will try it.
<soundnfury> btw, am I the only one annoyed that the only single 275N-class RCS thruster part is the 'conformal' one with heat shielding?
<soundnfury> I often use the 138N-class single RCS thruster on satellites and probes, because it's so much lighter than the 1.1/1.78kN Thruster.
<soundnfury> But sometimes it's just a _little_ bit too low-TWR, when orbital maneuvres start to take twelve minutes.
<Maxsimal|AFK> soundnfury: Agreed. Proc RCS would be great someday. I'm always buiding weird little RCS subassemblies on a twea-scaled octagonal strut that would be nice to have in just 1 part.
<Bornholio> yes so make a 275N clas quad and Atitude :)
<Maxsimal|AFK> Ok now really afk.
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<Bornholio> or tweakscale .... .duck
<soundnfury> also, has mediumDishAntenna (Comm DTS-M1) been deliberately nerfed?
<NCommander> I ate a really tasty cookie
<soundnfury> it used to have range enough for opposition-class Mars missions, but now it's tight even for conjunction
<Bornholio> is that the one with the careful to mars notes
<soundnfury> no, that's the HG-55
<soundnfury> which _is_ well-capable of conjunction-class missions
<soundnfury> but it used to be that the DTS-M1 was the "ok, you can stop worrying now and just go to Mars whenever" dish
<soundnfury> Another thing: there are hardly any techs in the range (50, 75] science points (i.e. R&D facility level 3).
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<Dasm> I did it!!! WIth 6483Dv I can go Earth>Venus>Jupiter
<Dasm> January 18th 1954
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<regex> soundnfury, it should be quite easy to add another RCS module, they use a standard template in the configs.
<Dasm> Oops, maybe I didn't
<regex> That's still more than a direct hohmann, IIRC.
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<Maxsimal> !tell NathanKell* Tried the config in your pastebin, still no luck
<Qboid> Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<soundnfury> Pap: I notice the Castor-1 is in solids1956. Are you sure that isn't a bit early? It first flew in 1960.
<NathanKell|WORK> Maxsimal: ok then I guess ask magico
<Qboid> NathanKell|WORK: Maxsimal left a message for you in #RO [10.07.2017 22:30:16]: "Tried the config in your pastebin, still no luck"
<NathanKell|WORK> Maxsimal: verify ingame that the tag was applied to the part?
<NathanKell|WORK> Maxsimal: it's in the part info tooltip side menu, it should say something like "Contains Avionics")
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: No, it flew earlier
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: the Baby Sergeant was derived from the Sergeant after all
<NathanKell|WORK> and Castor is just the civvie name for Sergeant
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: DTS-M1 wasn't supported before AFAIK. It's new. THe one you're thinking of has a similar model but appears later in the tree I thought
<Maxsimal> NathanKell: Will do, tomorrow, off to sleep in a moment.
<NathanKell|WORK> Dasm: How do you have an antenna capable of Jupiter in 1954?
<soundnfury> ... nope, the DTS-M1 was definitely supported before. It was in the 160 point node
<NathanKell|WORK> Weird
<soundnfury> same node as the Voyager ant
<soundnfury> s/Voyager/Pioneer
<Qboid> soundnfury meant to say: same node as the Pioneer ant
<NathanKell|WORK> ok so what's the new one that wasn't supported that was only slightly better than HG-55?
<soundnfury> HG-5
<NathanKell|WORK> ah
<NathanKell|WORK> then yeah sounds like a config got swapped
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<regex> Oh speaking of solids, the Altair early in RP-0 seems a little too elongated.
<regex> maybe it's just the model.
<soundnfury> NathanKell|WORK: ok, looks like it was changed by RO:c52fe44
<soundnfury> which was (among other things) an intentional rebalance
<Dasm> Why is mechjeb spinning my centaur stage?
<Dasm> Wait.. why is my roll stuck
<regex> trim?
<leudaimon> NathanKell|WORK, I looked into TOT's tutorial, it does give a RAAN and inclination for the ejection burn orbit... and the mission planner looks really powerful, with lots of optimization options.
<Qboid> leudaimon: Bornholio left a message for you in #RO [10.07.2017 13:18:58]: "Proc Avionics has a serious lag issue in VAB when selected (rightclick) not sure what made it start. Getting to improved avionics or some recent change. Took 2-3minutes to be able to deselect it by right click outside of it."
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<Dasm> regex: I'm pretty sure I didn't touch anything
<Dasm> Maybe I'm having problems with proc avionics
<Dasm> If its being buggy
<regex> vOv
<regex> o/
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<leudaimon> Bornholio, unfortunately there is not much I can do, I just made the tech node configs, the person to ask is rsparkyc, or you can make an issue on RP-0 repo
<Bornholio> I'll make an issue if i hear someone duplicate it or i get more information like exceptions
<Dasm> Bornholio: I was having the same problem yesterday
<Dasm> With my probe in the VAB
<leudaimon> Dasm, was it procedural?
<Bornholio> ok i'll make an issue if you can duplicate it and send a log to the issue that would be good
<Dasm> Yes: this is the probe- http://i.imgur.com/EaLynFf.png and yesterday I was having a lot of problems with it in the VAB and had to restart KSP
<Bornholio> https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/issues/1699 dasm if you want to add comments or logs
<Qboid> [#1699] title: Procedural Avionics serverly laggy when selected in VAB | Proc Avionics has a serious lag issue in VAB when selected (rightclick) not sure what made it start. Getting to improved avionics or some recent change. Took 2-3minutes to be able to deselect it by ri... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/issues/1699
<leudaimon> that is curious... I've been using procedurals exclusively in my RIS gameplay
<Bornholio> didn't start for me until i bought more upgrades or along with other new commits to pap's tech tree
<Bornholio> i'll try and find an old save, but i did cleanup
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: Argh, yeah
<NathanKell|WORK> Pap: Guess we need to reorganize the antenna branch then.
<leudaimon> Bornholio, I didn't play in PTT, but the configs shouldn't affect it
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<Bornholio> the slowdown begins exactly as i change it to upperstage, in this case interplanetary probe config.
<Pap> NathanKell|WORK: I just read backchat, sure seems like it
<Qboid> Pap: Bornholio left a message for you in #RO [10.07.2017 20:25:27]: "http://imgur.com/vTWZqDh grey center one (not vens) SXT or Fasa? does not surface attach."
<NathanKell|WORK> We'll have to sit down and redo the entire string I fear...
<Pap> It is probably worth it to re-balance all of them and modify values to fit the necessary parameters and techs
<Pap> Bornholio: We can just add a 1 to the engine in the attach rules
<Bornholio> I'll dig and find it, add it to the pr i opened if its sill open
<Pap> Done Bornholio
<Pap> sorry, I didn't see your message
<github> [RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQXjo
<github> RealismOverhaul/pap1723-ROupdates 71577e2 pap1723: Add BDB Apollo Configs, Surface Attach FASA RL10
<Bornholio> thanks
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<ferram4> Pap: So I found why hitting the target was so difficult. Somehow, it had loaded the distance allowed at 500m and horizontal distance at 0m (whatever that means)
<Pap> ferram4: How did that happen!?
<ferram4> It looks like distance is stuck at default unless horizontal distance is set?
<Pap> Huh, had no idea, I think that "might" be a newer feature
<Pap> Working now?
<Bornholio> pap did you see the icon fix PR from me or did i do that wrong
<ferram4> Seems to be
<Bornholio> dasm if you have time can you try and repeat you lockup with the Proc avionics? I was able to repeat it by selecting the upper stage interplanetary tech config and get rid of the problem by selecting anything else