<Raidernick>
NathanKell|TwitchLOADING, you fixed the zond and soyuz masses also?
<NathanKell|TwitchLOADING>
I did not
<NathanKell|TwitchLOADING>
I just want to plaaaay :P
<Raidernick>
ok will you fix them then?
<Raidernick>
i don't want to be messing around with the same files
<NathanKell|TwitchLOADING>
I don't have numbers for them
<NathanKell|TwitchLOADING>
I'll push what I have if this works
<Raidernick>
i don't either lol
<Raidernick>
i dont think the soviets kept records on this old stuff
<Raidernick>
especially for individual parts
NathanKell|TwitchLOADING is now known as NathanKell|Twitch
<NathanKell|Twitch>
7K-OK SA mass should be findable
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|Twitch, for all individual parts?
<Raidernick>
i'll mess around with it now
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<Ramh5>
Yes!!! I landed on Venus(finally) lol cheated the temperature and pressure :( my parachute also just ripped off at 20 m/s, go figure and I crash landed, only destroyed the heat shield and the bottom of the tank fortunately
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<Bornholio>
you want the parachute to open at no lower than 5atm range and it should be small. yup hard to get all parts that take the heat and pressure.
Pap|GoT is now known as Pap
<Ramh5>
no lower as in not below in altitude or not lower than 5atm as in high in altitude?
<Ramh5>
I opened my parachute like 5000 m above ground
<Ramh5>
at 20 m/s speed
<Bornholio>
you need to open high enough that dynamic pressure doesn't rip it off, 2-300m/s in the 70km range is very safe
<Ramh5>
hum I see I had in mind to let speed drop but I guess the pressure is more important
<Bornholio>
at 5km 70xthe air is hitting it for a given speed
<Bornholio>
compared to sea level or on venus about 70km up
<Ramh5>
ok thanks
<Bornholio>
or land with out 'chutes :)
<Ramh5>
yea
<Ramh5>
that is what I did, not by choice though
<Bornholio>
oh drogues can get you below landing leg speed easy
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<Ramh5>
ok
<Bornholio>
the worst thing about venus it that even at x4 speed it takes forever and a day to get down
<Ramh5>
yea I whent once and probably won't go again!!
<Bornholio>
i did all biomes manned landing and recovery using baloons for ascent to 72km
<Bornholio>
painful
<Ramh5>
omg
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|Twitch, should the descent module mass include the mass of the heatshield?
<Ramh5>
was a mod for balloons?
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQFp9
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master e270ae6 NathanKell: Fix some RN 7K-LOK issues, now reentry-certified!
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Raidernick: when given online, yes it includes the heatshield. Your heatshield is 256kg.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
You parachute is ~70kg ingame.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Your*
<Raidernick>
ok
<NathanKell|Twitch>
so the SA partmass should be (web mass) - (number of occupants * 100kg each) - 70kg - 256kg
<Ramh5>
anyway I spend so much time fixing my design flaw I end up reverting 1000 times every mission, like last thing I did I thought I could reduce the electric charge consumption of the 2 man module but it seems I can't while crewed so 2k Watts and I won't make it to the space station
<Ramh5>
is there a way to rollback and edit or do I have to recover and rebuild from scratch?
<Bornholio>
yes
<Ramh5>
I just can't find any button to rollback on KCT
<Bornholio>
select the * and a menus has edit on it once you rollback
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|Twitch, i'm redoing all the fuel for everything and fixing those masses then
<Ramh5>
I revert to launch maybe it is too late to rollback
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Raidernick: Awesome! :)
<Bornholio>
no on the launchpad select the KCT icon
<Ramh5>
hAAAA
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Your attention to detail puts us all to shame :)
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|Twitch, well apparently I missed this for like 4 years
<Raidernick>
i completely didn't notice it was even using irfna
<NathanKell|Twitch>
heh
<Pap>
NathanKell|Twitch: I have come across some data that makes it look like we have configged the RL10 too small
<NathanKell|Twitch>
too small?
<Raidernick>
Pap, yes it is i have the one EJ made for ula pack
<Raidernick>
it's much larger
<Pap>
For example, the large skipper that we config from Squad comes out to an engine bell diameter of 0.8382
<NathanKell|Twitch>
The modern one has a huge nozzle
<NathanKell|Twitch>
The early ones not so much
<Pap>
The real RL10A-3 has a 40 inch diameter which is 1.016m
<Pap>
The SSTU one is even worse
<Bornholio>
rahm5 the mod i used for balloons, most are cheaty, but there is one version that is close enough to realworld lift http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/49443-airships-in-13-hooliganlabs-mods/
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQFjT
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master 354f1f0 NathanKell: Missed one line
<Raidernick>
i did the calculations based on the size of the tanks
<Pap>
OK, i iwll
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<Pap>
Those of you that play with RSSVE, Any good advice to get it to run a bit faster?
<ProjectThoth>
Pap: Daily exercise in the morning, maybe running a kilometer or two a day, should get it to run faster over the course of a couple months.
<xShadowx>
Pap: better pc :)
<Pap>
lol
<regex>
Yeah, better PC.
<xShadowx>
plug your pc into 240v, double the voltage youll get double the speed!
<Pap>
^^^ This seems like sound advice
<xShadowx>
;D
<xShadowx>
funny thing is, in a lot of modern devices, they wont even care anymore ;/
<Pap>
Europe is 240v, right?
<xShadowx>
they just convert X down to whatever the pc wants, so 120, 240, etc is mattering less and less
<xShadowx>
no cue what euro uses :|
<xShadowx>
google says 220
<Pap>
so where is 240v used?
<taniwha>
240 is 220
<taniwha>
as far as devices are concerned
<taniwha>
the only actual oddball I know of is Japan at 100v
<xShadowx>
US uses 110/120 for small stuff, larger stuff like washing machines/driers/ovens use 220/240
<xShadowx>
for the most part its just due to line loss, 110 to 120 you land anywhere
<taniwha>
north american devices claim 110-120, Au/NZ devices claim 220-240
<taniwha>
not sure we have anything old enough to care about voltage to check japanese devices
<taniwha>
but my various wallwarts say 100-240
<xShadowx>
same, not even a switch to pick
<xShadowx>
prolly all made in china anyways so 1 design fits all :3
<Pap>
I was lied to, I cannot see the aurora borealis tonight
<xShadowx>
:(
<xShadowx>
where you at?
<Pap>
Just west of Chicago
<xShadowx>
ive never seen it ;/ aside from movies or youtube
<xShadowx>
or ksp ;3
<Pap>
Yeah, I was shocked when I heard it might be seen from here today, I thought you needed to go much further north
<Pap>
I'm sure I'll see video tomorrow of some jerk that managed to see it from around here
<xShadowx>
depends how much crap flies at earth
<taniwha>
Pap: I've seen them twice, both times in Calgary
<taniwha>
first time, they were just barely on the northern horizon
<taniwha>
(and red)
<taniwha>
second time, directly overhead and green
<taniwha>
didn't know they were happening, looked up and thought the clouds looked funny. then realized what I was looking at wasn't clouds
<taniwha>
(was about 4am, had been out delivering newspapers)
* xShadowx
goes to google to find paperbo jokes
<xShadowx>
jk
<xShadowx>
first job?:)
<xShadowx>
my first job was programming -.- after i swore i wouldnt do programming as a job
<Pap>
lol
<taniwha>
xShadowx: no, trying to keep food on the table while between jobs
<xShadowx>
used to be paperboys around here, but internet is killin em off :(
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<github>
[RP-0] pap1723 created Pap-TechTree at acabf3d (+0 new commits): https://git.io/vQbk8
<github>
[RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQbkR
<github>
RP-0/Pap-TechTree a06dd15 pap1723: Fixed Rover Name for Site Bravo
<github>
[RP-0] pap1723 opened pull request #726: Fixed Rover Name for Site Bravo (master...Pap-TechTree) https://git.io/vQbk0
<github>
[RP-0] pap1723 closed pull request #726: Fixed Rover Name for Site Bravo (master...Pap-TechTree) https://git.io/vQbk0
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<NathanKell|AFK>
Pap!!!!
NathanKell|AFK is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
Pap: I just closed that branch :P
<NathanKell>
That's why I put the issue up, saying I had done so :]
<NathanKell>
!tell Pap* please push to master, not the dev branch; per the issue I had merged it down and deleted the dev branch. I'll go ahead and merge what you pushed down to master. As you mentioned, it was about time to do so :)
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell>
!tell Pap* Ah I think I misunderstood. You made the commit and then did a PR for it? I'm confused. All this proper gitiquette that I don't normally follow :D We'll catch up tmr and figure out the right process :)
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn NathanKell
* Qboid
gives NathanKell a duck
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<github>
RP-0/master 5af5850 NathanKell: p/p new 2kN thruster
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<Theysen>
wow that FASA apollo is so shiny <3
<Theysen>
and I forgot the landing legs , really bro.
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<Guest02240>
hi ? :D
<taniwha>
:)
<Guest02240>
Anyone using rp-0 with RSS ? ^^
<taniwha>
I won't be able to help you further, though, sorry
<taniwha>
but if you can keep your client open, you'll get an answer eventually
<Guest02240>
thanks :)
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<Guest02240>
i'm struggling to get visual enhancements on RSS ^^
<Guest02240>
i know people did it ^^
<Theysen>
RSSVE Guest02240
<Theysen>
you need 1.2.2
<Guest02240>
I know but for rp-0 i have to use 1.1.3 :(
<Maxsimal>
No, RP0 works on 1.2.2
<Guest02240>
oh é_è
<Guest02240>
Installing it right now
<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* I had one commit to push and I couldn't get my desktop Git client to push it to master. It was late and isntead of figuring out the command line, I pushed it to the old one, merged it and deleted it. I should be good pushing to master only now
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [17.07.2017 07:01:29]: "please push to master, not the dev branch; per the issue I had merged it down and deleted the dev branch. I'll go ahead and merge what you pushed down to master. As you mentioned, it was about time to do so :)"
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [17.07.2017 07:02:40]: "Ah I think I misunderstood. You made the commit and then did a PR for it? I'm confused. All this proper gitiquette that I don't normally follow :D We'll catch up tmr and figure out the right process :)"
<Maxsimal>
o/ Pap
<Pap>
o/ Maxsimal how is it going?
<Maxsimal>
Still no word from nightingale unfortunately
<Maxsimal>
Doin ok otherwise, kinda sleepy, one of the cats decided 4am was a perfect time to lick my arm and my gf's face :P
<Pap>
Yeah, he used to be extremely quick in his responses, now he seems to do things in bunches. So you might not see him for a week or so and then he is responding to multiple things
<Pap>
Just a cat doing cat things!
<Maxsimal>
Yeah, she is a brat. And no worries. I'm gonna start on figuring out how to add those part tags NathanKell put in for the integration cost stuff. How's your stuff going?
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hola Papinho o/
<Pap>
o/ Hypergolic_Skunk
<Pap>
Maxsimal: I have been really busy with the end of the semester for school, so my downtime has been spent playing (and when that frustrates me, adding part configs)
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<Maxsimal>
Pap: I know how that can be. Good luck with your exams!
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
IRL comes first
<Maxsimal>
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply you would be working on something right this moment. No guilt trips from me, I'm too lazy and not enough of a hypocrit to do that :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
anyway, I have killed three Kerbals yesterday trying to land my 50s supersonic jet.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
time to do something about the design :p
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
3 Kerbals in 3 separate flights. FYI.
<Maxsimal>
Parachutes? :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
no! that's a cop-out...
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I mean, I placed two additional super-long runways....
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
that are not bugged..
<Maxsimal>
So you're running off the end of the runway still, or something else?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
nah, my contraption drops like a stone below 130m/s, and I was impatient trimming it out for a proper approach...
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
maybe slats will help...
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<Maxsimal>
That's a pretty crazy stall speed, even for a jet :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
two-engine design, because they're the first jet engines, and rather weak.. and not so much wing area... yeah :D
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<leudaimon|work>
o/
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hola leudaimon|Work
<leudaimon|work>
hey Hypergolic_Skunk
<leudaimon|work>
I'm looking at github updates... the new tech tree has been merged into master, right?
<leudaimon|work>
Pap: ^
<Pap>
yes leudaimon|Work
<Pap>
lol, I getted pinged by Tree as well :)
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<leudaimon|work>
lol
<darsie>
What KSP versions does RSS+RO+RP0 work well with?
<Maxsimal>
1.2.2
<darsie>
thx
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ok... changing to one engine.. less weight should mean easier work for the wings...
<leudaimon|work>
ah Pap and Maxsimal, any news from proc. avionics? do you know if that bug with the part weight has been looked into?
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Less wings = more success
<Pap>
leudaimon|Work: Not much, I know that rsparkyc has been busy with RL
<rsparkyc>
stupid RL
* Hypergolic_Skunk
hits Pap with a medium-sized landing gear
<leudaimon|work>
o/ rsparkyc! don't feel pushed by it... I asked just because I've been away for a couple days
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
1-engine design is looking promising...
<Maxsimal>
leudaimon&rsparkyc: I talked to rsparkyc the other day about, I think he thinks it's a tuning issue though.
<Maxsimal>
I think you two need to have a pow-wow.
<rsparkyc>
no worries, things should calm down again once we're done with the move
<Maxsimal>
Also, btw, leudaimon, I think you need to adjust the tuning on upper-stages so that the formula is more like (constant + per-tonnage-value*controlled tonnage) for cost and weight, rather than just (per-tonnage-value*controlled tonnage*
<Maxsimal>
RIght now I can have, just with that first node that gives upper-stage avionics, something that controls 3T for 54kg, which is SUCH a better deal than the able core which is 5T for 140kg.
<Maxsimal>
And because of the issue with where the ideal utilization percentage is, doing 54kg at 200% utilization is not much more expensive than doing the cost-ideal utlization at 114%
<leudaimon|work>
yeah, Maxsimal, this needs more tuning definitely. With regards to cost, I made the balance with 100% in mind, assuming higher utilization would be much more expensive...
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<Maxsimal>
Yeah, I forget exactly since i'm not at-game, but I think cost was ¬110 for 114% utilization and ¬135 for 200% utlization, not much difference.
<leudaimon|work>
yeah, as soon as this issue is fixed things would be better balanced
<leudaimon|work>
about the weight, if you have a suggestion for the tonnage-per-ton values, or for a formula, please feel free to make a PR... we can work from there then
<Maxsimal>
:P Ok, I'm still a git newb though, need to figure out how to do a PR.
<Maxsimal>
I've cloned Pap's branch, and I have the desktop app at home, with changed files, but I don't know what to do from there.
<Maxsimal>
I'm used to Perforce myself.
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<Maxsimal>
Oh well, I'll sort it, just haven't looked at it much. I tried pushing the files I changed to my cloned branch and didn't see them change in what was on the web.
<Pap>
Maxsimal: are you using the desktop Github app?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I cannot land this plane for the life of me
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
just weeks ago I landed a bloody SR71
<Pap>
After you make the changes to the files, make sure you put in a descriptive summary, click Commit on the bottom and then on the top right click Sync
<Boris>
I still have some flickering when watching earth
<Boris>
atmosphere flickering
<Pap>
Boris: yeah, it isn't a perfect setup, so there are some issues from time to time
<Boris>
Enough for ;em thanks guys :)
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Ok will try again when I get home.
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<Pap>
!tell Agathorn* Miss seeing you around here, I hope your time away will help your burn out with Stellar Trail
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Maxsimal>
What's stellar trail?
<Ezko_>
it's where game stars walk
<Ezko_>
so if you want to hunt stars you should wait by a stellar trail
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<Pap>
Maxsimal: It is a game that Agathorn has been working on
<Ezko_>
oh
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] SirKeplan pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQNke
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master bc714fa SirKeplan: fix RealEngines S5.92 gas gen exhaust thrust and set it actually to 1/100 as stated in code
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<Bornholio>
pap should i keep testing high end tech/parts or need more lowe tech testing on anything in particular?
<Pap>
Bornholio: What point are you at?
<Bornholio>
mid 70's for whole tech tree or little better
<Bornholio>
fasa, vens, sxt for packs
<Pap>
80's are going to be dominated by the Shuttle, modern day might be interesting, but other than that, not much to test. There will be a lot of empty nodes I think :(
<Bornholio>
i got nuclear engines working with vens in stock, so i will have some to pad out that part of the tree soon, so i should look at things like NF then?
<Pap>
Bornholio: that is great. NF would be nice. Here is the problem we are going to run into. The 1980s and 1990's in the US were dominated by the Shuttle and Russia was bankrupt. There is not going to be too much going on in that part of the tree. Things should get better again in the ISS era
<Bornholio>
what packs have jaxa/esa stuff then?
<Pap>
Someone re-did Lionhead's ESA Pack, the parts are placed in the tree, but don't know how the RO configs are working. There is not much in the way of JAXA parts that I have seen.
<Bornholio>
hopefully that changes with more modders comming in due to 1.3 in other languages. I'll keep playing my current play through and add those things.
<Pap>
That sounds great Bornholio
<Pap>
We also need to do a big overhaul of Station Parts
<Pap>
Now that SSTU has a ton cores and modules for stations, those would be useful. CxAerospace has some good stuff (mostly American) Tantares is adding more Mir era stuff
<Bornholio>
do you have a spreadsheet for those parts yet?
<Pap>
Not all of the SSTU station pieces, none of the Tantares ones
<Bornholio>
Nathan is using SSTU right now? if so i'll try tantares
<Pap>
Tantares has ZERO RO configs. Beale decided to re-create the entire pack and changed diemensions on all of his stuff. It will be from scratch for you :(
<Bornholio>
ah. ok i'll wait on that till after my stuff then
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<Theysen>
Pap, I have the SSTU DOS (Salyut Stuff) configured for my own soviet career. Can't balance it well because they're completeldy modular and it is up to the player how far he takes it
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<Maxsimal>
Pap: Wonder what he's building for Stellar trails.
<Maxsimal>
Pap: And yeah, 90's plus would be empty unless we want to put in some more interesting stuff for various science missions/probes/rovers. My personal feeling is that RO should just keep focusing on earlier stuff until the mod feels quite solid for those - and then venture into 'realistic' space colonization, perhaps borrowing from Kerbalism
<Maxsimal>
Anyway, later :)
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<Theysen>
Pap, in general I think we need to give SSTU another pass in the future, it changed quite much from what it was configged for back in the days
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<Pap>
Theysen: I agree about SSTU, and he continues to change it which is a good thing!
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<Theysen>
Just when you think you have launch profiles figured out you build a Titan IV and get screwed. Seriously, this thing is kerbal lol
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<regex>
SRM first stages are crazy beasts.
<Theysen>
the two upper stages never exceed 1G at any point which requires the stupid highest trajectory Ive ever flown for LEO lol
<Theysen>
aaaaaand still reentering
<Theysen>
gotta read up on those.
<regex>
sounds like a serious "lofting", lol
<regex>
I rebalanced my budgets to coincide with NASA's largest yearly budget and the returns are nuts, even with quarterly payouts. Playing at half rep rewards seems to help with the ridiculous gains I experienced in the other save though.
<regex>
getting sick of building fucking aerobees and WAC Corporals though...
<Pap>
regex: I got to that point as well. The thought of making more made me angry
<Bornholio>
need a few more first node/early engines
<regex>
I'm just going to continue playing with this setup, seems to be fine.
<Bornholio>
thankfully you leave that era pretty fast with a couple manned launches
<regex>
I really want to build the entire Delta line, that's why I started playing career again, but the stock paradigm just fucks with me so much...
<regex>
Also, do we have a spectrograph experiment?
<Bornholio>
maybe if you include it as part of the "Camera" experiment
<Pap>
regex: not yet, but we are looking into adding a lot more science experiments
<Bornholio>
cosmic
<regex>
Sure, just wondering. i might set one up myself.
<Pap>
No, none of it is, but some (most?, all?) of it will be
<Bornholio>
I've done a lot of cosmic ray experiment stuff so i added my blather. I built about 50 scintilation detectors, no thats a wishlist kind of thing
<regex>
Ah, cool, that's a pretty cool doc.
<Bornholio>
oh i should have said to nathan that my moon in 59 was including DMagic
<Bornholio>
does he play with that?
<Pap>
Bornholio: he does not, but the dMagic parts don't come in until the 3rd or 4th sceince tier, right?
<Bornholio>
yes but they do speed things up fast and have no other requirements, maybe you should require MatsSci also
<Bornholio>
or both the electronics and mat sci
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<regex>
Yeah, those come up quickly (I play with them).
* Theysen
actually came to the conclusion that his weird R-7 a like performance issues might be due to 180° turned procedural tanks.
<Pap>
Bornholio: that is a good point
<regex>
I should update my tech tree...\
<Bornholio>
the first space station lab/orbital science experiment thingy is a giant leap in science points in one mission but its pretty late and hard to launch that much
<Theysen>
you should play sandbox regex :p
<regex>
Why? The Monthly Budgets mod, with a rewrite, is working pretty good for me.
<regex>
Ah, I see the ":p", I should look for smileys first.
<Theysen>
Sorry :P
<Theysen>
anyone know why the RO configs for the RD107/8 all have the 2m20s / 5m40s burn time when any R-7 launcher I find mostly burns 1m58s and 4m58s?
<regex>
haha
<regex>
That might be what the engines are actually rated for, as opposed to used for.
<Theysen>
makes sense. should think first.
<regex>
lol
<Theysen>
because you get a quite good more of payload into orbit using the max time haha
<Bornholio>
maybe the russians have been agathorn before? :P
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<NathanKell|WORK>
regex, Theysen: When I looked up the stuff on bnumz those were the burn times I found (2m5s booster, 5m30s core)
<Qboid>
NathanKell|WORK: Pap left a message for you in #RO [17.07.2017 12:44:19]: "I had one commit to push and I couldn't get my desktop Git client to push it to master. It was late and isntead of figuring out the command line, I pushed it to the old one, merged it and deleted it. I should be good pushing to master only now"
<NathanKell|WORK>
But I've seen 2m10s for some boosters sometimes, and often only 5m core
<NathanKell|WORK>
so I dunno
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Sorry about the confusion last night, I saw what you did after I did the tells :(
<NathanKell|WORK>
Apologies
<NathanKell|WORK>
Also Theysen yes the SSTU configs need a massive redo I'm afraid, at least Soyuz I know does. It's entirely unuseable atm
<NathanKell|WORK>
My guess is Apollo does as well
<NathanKell|WORK>
Not sure about the other spacecraft lines
<NathanKell|WORK>
The engines at least are good
<Theysen>
NathanKell|WORK yes the utility stuff and proc tanks and all, but they've got so many frckn definitions and configs to get right the way we need them
<Theysen>
NathanKell|WORK, gotcha on the burn times :) Better more than less haha
<NathanKell|WORK>
Might trim the core back to 5m, unless someone can find an R-7 deriv that had >5m core burntime
<NathanKell|WORK>
The Soyuz and Apollo stuff should get the first work IMO
<NathanKell|WORK>
since the tanks at least do work, and the engines are fine
<regex>
NathanKell|WORK, I took your words into consideration, the budget is now five times what it was. It will slightly exceed NASA's highest recorded yearly budget at max rep, allowing you to purchase about ten Saturn V Apollos per quarter.
<regex>
I was originally trying to make it more about managing launches than the facilities.
<regex>
So I might write in an overall multiplier for people who want to play that way... Also, half rep rewards seems to handle the ridiculous early gain.
<NathanKell|WORK>
don't be afraid to change up the rep rewards btw :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
they need to be balanced against each other, even if you need a global mult for budget mode
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: I re-did some of the SSTU Apollo stuff, I believe it is all working well, but I will configure
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Ah ok, so just Soyuz then
<NathanKell|WORK>
coolz!
<regex>
I might but I'm mainly writing this for me, not sure how much I'm going to put into it considering I'm already sick of launching fucking aerobees over and over testing it.
<Pap>
I am working through the Saabstory RO parts as they are very nice models and fit a need well
<Pap>
Very easy to do since they were basically built for RO already
<regex>
Does Saabstory have decent Titan engines? The FASA ones are lacking.
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: I noticed that you had to shrink the LR79, was it just built too large?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Unless his dimensions differed from ours of course, maybe he's right and we're wrong
<NathanKell|WORK>
But IIRC when I shrunk it I recompared against drawings
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: Individual models for -3, -5/7, -9, and -11 IIRC
<NathanKell|WORK>
As well as -LH2
<Pap>
I am going to test it to make sure, I found a great table from a NASA PDF that has all of the nozzle diameters
<regex>
fuck yeah
<regex>
I'll grab that tonight
<NathanKell|WORK>
The 91s will need a little bit of jiggery-pokery for the pump exhaust (or, for the -3, the verniers)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Awesome
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<Pap>
The -3, -5, -7 and -9 are lumped together as one model, then there is a separate for the -11, -11A and the LH2
<NathanKell|WORK>
For the 91 or the 87?
<Pap>
The 87
<NathanKell|WORK>
That's fine
<NathanKell|WORK>
Although it misses the expanded nozzle -9
<Bornholio>
stupid tankbutts on 91's....
<NathanKell|WORK>
Bornholio: saab ftw :)
<Bornholio>
nathan i wanted to mention about my manned to '59 that i'm also using DMagic/SCANsat mods so there is some speedup from that.
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<Maxsimal>
o/
<Pap>
o/ again
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so most everyone in here uses Dmagic?
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: NathanKell does not
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
good
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
he's my reference :D
<Maxsimal>
Hypergolic_Skunk: I'm not, for my speed run.
<Pap>
I haven't played a game on the new tree far enough yet to get to the dMagic parts
<NathanKell|WORK>
Bornholio: Ah, yeah, SCANSat would unlock early enough to help. Didn't think dmagic did
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
what about Infernal Robotics? anyone playing with that? :)
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: TBH, they are not in the tree, someone didn't place them
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: ok.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Also tweakscale.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
can be very useful for 1. self-storing rovers and 2. variable wings
<NathanKell|WORK>
Tweakscale baaaaad
<NathanKell|WORK>
(and IR needs it)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
no way
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I cannot play with Tweakscale
<NathanKell|WORK>
doesn't IR need it? It used to
<NathanKell|WORK>
I would dearly love robotic parts that work
<Maxsimal>
I use it just for resizing structural parts.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
playing KSP without being able to adjust the size of structural parts? not for me. dunno how you do it.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
exactly, Maxsimal
<NathanKell|WORK>
But it's sooooo buggy. And doesn't play well with FAR.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
lets just agree to disagree :>
<Maxsimal>
Someone needs to write ProcGirders then :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Maxsimal: and procedural landing gear :)
<blowfish>
we already sorta have that
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Adjustable Landing Gear is dead, and three or four predetermined sizes for landing gear is nonsensical
<Maxsimal>
Hahah. Well, don't look at me, I'm trying to make heads or tails of MM now.
<blowfish>
ALG is now part of KerbalFoundaries
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
which I have
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
and they dont work
<Maxsimal>
Planes, feh.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
you have to learn how to walk before you want to run!
<blowfish>
Hypergolic_Skunk: that's different from being dead
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
blowfish: ALG in Kerbal Foundries don't understand symmetry. that's as near to death as can be.
<blowfish>
symmetry worked fine the last time I tried
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
when was that?
<blowfish>
not too long ago
<Maxsimal>
Rockets is walking, planes are hard :P
<Pap>
Maxsimal: Someone is working on ProcGirders (or something that will work similarly)
<blowfish>
maybe a couple of weeks
<blowfish>
Hypergolic_Skunk: and where is this "not working therefore broken forever" attitude coming from
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: does the tree consider ALG from Kerbal Foundries?
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Hah well, that'll be cool.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
blowfish: some mods just die :( it's the circle of life.
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: It does not, does it have RO configs?
<blowfish>
perhaps you should check whether the mods in question are being actively worked on first before assuming that
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
blowfish: jawohl
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: I don't know. I used them extensively in 1.1.3, iirc.
<blowfish>
I think if you had visited the KerbalFoundaries thread you might not get that impression
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: I'll add them to my list and will see what I found out
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
when my current reentry is done, I will check sandbox and see if I can find the parts. I think I have Kerbal Foundries installed, but they don't show up in career.
<NathanKell|WORK>
if the new ALG works, the old configs for Baha gear should be applied to it, the ones that clone them and give them varying temps like the B9 wings.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap ^
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
blowfish: you're right, I didn't check the thread. last time I tried ALG was maybe a month ago or two? many things can change in that time span :)
<blowfish>
also worth making sure the version you have installed is the latest (for your version of KSP of course)
<blowfish>
and can always verify whether they're working vs just not showing up in career by opening a sandbox game
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
true. but that was not the issue.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
the issue was that the mirror-part in mirror-symmetry would turn itself around 180 degrees
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
will check if that's fixed now
regex|curry is now known as regex
<Theysen>
Hypergolic_Skunk I remember linking you the Kerbal Foundries ALG mod a few weeks back and told you they work flawlessly lol :D
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
which I will verify right now ;)
<Theysen>
You said you'd do it right after back then :( u leid.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yeah. instead I tested hours and days of RP-0 career. my bad!
<Theysen>
I don't even remember when I sent you the thread, no worries :P :D
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: my 13 month old daughter says some workd that sounds like Jawohl, so I use my best German accent (which is bad) and I repeat it like the WWII movies I have seen
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:D
<Theysen>
lol
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
do you really want your daughter to develop a German accent? :>
<Theysen>
As long as she doesn't turn them into Jawohl, mein Führer oO
<Theysen>
(probably don't show her the WWII movies :D)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
now I have to think of that scene in 'Eurotrip'
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
which was cut from the German version :D
<Theysen>
Oh yeah man :D
<Pap>
Oh, I will be showing her all of the WWII movies, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Apollo 13, God knows her mother will fail her in those situations
<Theysen>
NathanKell|WORK, I tried to bring a logic into the DOS parts of SSTU (the Salyut inspired ones) and would like some input whether to "lock" one specific layout for an early dockable station core or to leave all the options open to the player.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
blowfish: actually, thank you for updating me on ALG/Kerbal Foundries. I am not the best at landing my winged contraptions, and properly angled landing gear should help a lot :)
<Bornholio>
okay i must have missed this movie
<Pap>
Bornholio: EuroTrip is very funny
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: it is so full of clichées, it's actually kinda funny. definitely if you combust certain plants.
<Theysen>
it's trashy but funny yes. Actually laughed a few good times. ^ exactly this
<Theysen>
the thing with the clichees
<blowfish>
yeah, ALG is super useful, thank Shadowmage for putting in the time to write a completely new wheel module, since the stock one wasn't cutting it
Thomas is now known as Thomas|AWAY
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Shadowmage ... a name I hear a lot but have yet to see around here :P
<blowfish>
not on IRC much
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: he is not an RO person, actually, he dislikes RO
<Theysen>
he's a busy and fragile person from what Ive heard
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
even though I have no idea what 'lamont new launch code' means :p
<Sarbian>
Bugs go to lamont, compliments to me.
<NathanKell|WORK>
PEG
<Sarbian>
MJ ascent AP working properly with limited ignition mostly ;)
<Sarbian>
and many improvements
<regex>
Bah, you'll have to pry the spacebar fropm my cold, dead heand
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hmmm! sounds delicious!
<regex>
!s/ //
<regex>
no?
<Pap>
Sarbian: Can it fix my terribly designed and underpowered craft without enough Delta-v?
<regex>
damn...
<Bornholio>
"oh my robot balls" is a quote, ummm why have you polutted my mind hypergolic :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
haha :D
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
'mes boules!'
<Pap>
Bornholio: Error! Error! Error!
<Sarbian>
Pap: I am sure it can ! if does not complains to the coder ! :D
<Pap>
Sarbian: will do!
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: I can do one more
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
if you like Eurotrip, you may love 'Wet Hot American Summer'
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
the movie
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
not the show
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
which I hate
<Pap>
Thanks Bornholio, I will now try that one
<Bornholio>
lol the pope is dead
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
xD
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
damn, it's been too long
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<Pap>
Europe is basically the size of the mall
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
you can swim from London to Paris
<Bornholio>
yeah but watch out for needles from stonerdamn, that pretty close
<regex>
stonerdam, LMAO
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: where are you from, actually?
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<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: A flyover state
<Bornholio>
thats a hard question, I am in Omaha nebraska
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
isn't that where Penny from Big Bang Theory is from?
<Bornholio>
yes
<Pap>
Wow Bornholio that is what Omaha is most well-known for in Europe? That is sad
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
that is the only piece of information my brain could come up with about Nebraska :D
<Pap>
Also Warren Buffet is from there
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: besides the landing-site in Normandy..
<Pap>
And a mail order steak company
<Sarbian>
It s a large beach in Normady, right ?
<Bornholio>
lol, yes warren buffet and penny are the only notable things of omaha
<Pap>
What is the actual name of that beach?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
loading KSP with new Kerbal Foundries and Mechjeb now
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
crash during loadup...... erm
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
lets try that again
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<Sarbian>
Pap: no name afaik, it s the beach between two village
<Sarbian>
I actually never visited. I need to go there...
<Pap>
Sarbian, where are you located?
<Sarbian>
Paris
<Sarbian>
I am from the South of France originaly
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
scary place, Paris
<Sarbian>
Yeah, watch where you walk ;p
<Pap>
OK, I was going to say, be forwarened that all of my knowledge of French geography is based on WWII reading, Hearts of Iron and Europa Universalis
<Sarbian>
:)
<NathanKell|AWAY>
He can be distinguished from natives by being too nice :P
<Pap>
lol
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
crash during load
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hm
<Sarbian>
NathanKell|AWAY: It s because you never get me on a bad day :D
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Hehe
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: Do you have any idea when $REDACTED information will be released to the public?
<Sarbian>
So I am reading some MJ code. Wondering who s stupid enough to write than. And of course when I check the file history I am the only one who ever worked on it for the last 2 years
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
^
* Sarbian
fails at writing proper English again
<Pap>
Sarbian: isn't that how all code looks years later?
<Sarbian>
Often, but I was quite sure I fixed the problem I am seeing a while ago...
<Pap>
Too bad for proper version control, you cannot pass the blame :(
<Sarbian>
Oh, with KSP source I knew who to blame all right ;)
<Sarbian>
Without history most of the time
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Pap year or two maybe? Dunno
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Will all RO/RP0 engines be built into a module with name = ModuleEngineConfigs ?
<Pap>
Maxsimal: I don't understand exactly what you are asking
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Some solids may not
<NathanKell|AWAY>
SirKeplan will know best
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hm, ok, newest Kerbal Foundries only says '1.3.0', nothing about 1.2.2. - it comes with MM 2.8.1, but trying to use that makes the game crash during load. let's see what happens with good old MM version 2.7.6 ...
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Often RCS will not
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Sorry I'm not clear. I'm looking in the modulemanager.configcache at configs for engines to try to figure out what the best way to identify and tag them is. The configs for engines seem to all start as MODULE with name = ModuleEngineConfigs
<Maxsimal>
NathanKell: Gotcha
<SirKeplan>
Maxsimal: not always no. and some use ModuleHybridEngine instead.
<SirKeplan>
possibly only 2 right now
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Ugh forgot about that
<Pap>
Maxsimal: let me save you some work
<SirKeplan>
any dual mode engine should be a ModuleHybridEngine if it's set up right
<NathanKell|AWAY>
They will all, I think, be ModuleEnginesRF ?
<Maxsimal>
SirKeplan: Yeah only seeing two of those in my cache. I guess I can look for anything tagged as pressureFed=True or pressureFed=False, but wanted to be a little more specific.
<Pap>
ohhhh, nevermind, I cannot help much
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Yes, dual mode can be ignored for RP-0 for now
<SirKeplan>
i assume everything has ModuleEnginesRF yeah
<Maxsimal>
SirKeplan: Gotcha
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Your problem will be that sometimes the info will be in mec and sometimes in ModuleEnginesRF
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<Maxsimal>
Gotcha. Ok, another question, maybe Sarbian should answer this. Is there a good example anywhere of a patch that has some HAS qualifications for nested modules and keys? The nodehas.cfg has some good examples for simple things, but I think I'll have to qualify off of more than one feature, since I want to look for both that pressureFed key and then whether there's an oxidizer involved or not.
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<NathanKell|AWAY>
Your best bet is tagging parts in Pap's tree spreadsheet
<NathanKell|AWAY>
And then exporting
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Rather than trying to use mm to auto tah
<Maxsimal>
NathanKell: Oh.. ok well that'd be another way to do that yeah... :P
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Tag
<Sarbian>
Maxsimal: something like @PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]:HAS[#maxAmount[750]]] { ...(stuff) } ?
<Maxsimal>
Sarbian: Yeah something like that, exactly, though NathanKell might have an easier way to do it.
<Sarbian>
As you can see you can use HAS on a deeper node. The first one is on the PART and the second on the RESOURCE. Combine as needed
<Pap>
Maxsimal: Let me get the spreadsheet setup as a Google Doc file. RP-0 and the new tree have gotten to the point where everyone needs access to it now
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Cool, no rush :) That will save me tons of time reloading and checking if my patch was written right.
<Pap>
Jesus, the sheer power of the F-1 compared to other engines of the time is mind boggling
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Von Braun's big baby <3
<Bornholio>
Russians didn't even bother trying to make test stands big enough to do that
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so yeah, uhm, Kerbal Foundries is for 1.3.0, and will make 1.2.2-installs crash, which ends that particular dream of mine :)
<Pap>
Have any of you ever tried to change your well established email address?
<Theysen>
Hypergolic_Skunk, there is a 1.2.2 release wait
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
oh?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
you mean the ones released in March?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but first I'll see about this new and shiny Mechjeb
<Pap>
Theysen: did you get an answer on configuring the DOS parts?
<regex>
Pap, last time I changed my email address it took a long time to propogate, like a few years. Someone gave my old address to the place I now work despite the new one being on my resume.
<regex>
That was about seven years ago so times may have changed.
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<Theysen_>
Pap, don't think so no.
<Bornholio>
if you can use google to accumulate the old one to your new one. I had a road runner account and they did not give the option as they are bastards
<Pap>
They are both Gmail accounts and I would just have forwarding setup so I can filter out the crap I don't wnat anymore I guess
<NathanKell|WORK>
Theysen IMO as I mentioned if you can best do Soyuz first, then DOS (but as you said, hard to 'configure' DOS since it's modular in SSTU)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: I have like five nested Gmail addresses under my main account. should be easy.
<Pap>
Sounds good, thanks Hypergolic_Skunk
<Theysen_>
NathanKell|WORK, are we talking Soyuz Capsule or Soyuz Tank parts and adapters?
<Bornholio>
pap are you getting tired of cialis ads in your inbox :)
<Theysen_>
That's strange I built one yesterday myself and it worked okish
<Theysen_>
any pointers?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Off the top of my head, the SA doesn't have any RCS, the heat shield will need work, the parachute needs configuring (it's stock-sized), the BO has a 750 watt antenna, and I didn't even check the PAO
<Theysen_>
Ah! Yes the Reentry Capsule needs some love right!
<NathanKell|WORK>
I'd suggest using Raidernick's as a base since they're all few-part vessels
<Bornholio>
throttleResponseRate = , throttleStartedMult = and throttleStartupMult = how do i vary these to get 10 second linear startup
<NathanKell|WORK>
Bornholio: look at RF's throttle method? that should show how each is used
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Sarbian: do I still need to enter a super-high Orbit Altitude? I tried putting in 200km for fun, but the rocket shoots way past that, and Stage2 then keeps a pitch angle of 23 degrees to the very end
<NathanKell|WORK>
I don't recall the formula offhand
<NathanKell|WORK>
Hypergolic_Skunk: if you're using PEG, no.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ok
<Sarbian>
Hypergolic_Skunk: did you change the mode to PEG ( last line of the window )
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
the first launch I left it disabled, trying with PEG now
<Sarbian>
I found a bug when testing it here that I am trying to fix. If you get some error spam it is most like that
<Sarbian>
(My guess is that it only show on high end CPU since it s a freaking thread race problem that I was sure I had fixed)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
oh, NathanKell|WORK - one minor question... how probable is it that there'll be some kind of Runway fix for 1.2.2? and is it more probable than RO/RSS/RP-0 for 1.3? :p
<Sarbian>
Update for 1.3 should not be hard. nearly nothing changed...
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
just so many dependencies...
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
<3 my second stage is pitching properly
<Sarbian>
Yes, but the code change are minimal. It should not take as long as 1.1=>1.2
<Bornholio>
nathan is there a good place to look for that
<Pap>
Alright, be back later all
<Pap>
o/
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
\o
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Sarbian: Stage2 is showing 'Unguided Gravity Turn' and stops steering. is that something you encountered? what am I doing wrong ? :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
also:
<Bornholio>
have the stage nubmer set correct?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
AAAAAAAAAGAAAATHOOOOORN!
<Sarbian>
IDK :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: two stages
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Sarbian: ok :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
will continue trying things out, pressing random buttons, especially big red ones
<Bornholio>
and does it say 1 stage after staging>
<Sarbian>
Do you have NaN in the PEG config window ?
<Bornholio>
that also
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
sometimes. the text is flickering occasionally.
<Bornholio>
if you don't have enough fuel or twr to make it to the orbit...NAN and unguided gravity turn
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I wonder if Testflight confused it
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: enough fuel for a normal MJ Ascent Guidance
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but it needs to point into the proper direction for that :p
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
S1 has about 6km/s, S2 about 3.2km/s
<Bornholio>
what is your pitch after pitch program
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
let me try again
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
should I activate the stream so you see what I'm doing (wrong)? :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
RO/RSS specific settings are enabled
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<Bornholio>
when I set it up I always make the pitch end at the same time as stage burn out and aim for a 20deg ending pitch
<Bornholio>
otherwise looks fine, plenty of twr
<NathanKell|WORK>
make sure to click reinitialize if anything goes wonky
<NathanKell|WORK>
Hypergolic_Skunk: and 1.3 will depend broadly on FAR, everything else should be simple
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ok, just changed the Booster Pitch end to be exactly as long as Stage 1 burn time
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
and 'ending pitch' is 20
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NathanKell|WORK: ok :) I can live with 1.2.2, now that I made Kerbal Konstructs work for me
<Bornholio>
after a run adjust the pitch whatever way the PEG moves
<NathanKell|WORK>
Hypergolic_Skunk: OH
<NathanKell|WORK>
OH
<NathanKell|WORK>
Your Pe is waaaaay too high
<NathanKell|WORK>
PEG is for launching into parking orbits
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
my Periapsis is way too high?
<NathanKell|WORK>
(or a high-Ap transfer orbit)
<NathanKell|WORK>
remember it has to fly *directly* to the Pe, hit insertion at Pe
<NathanKell|WORK>
You need a lot of delta V (and a very long ascent burn time) to hit a 400km Pe
<NathanKell|WORK>
Also your pitch program in the pic is quite severe
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I'm confused :p so I cannot use this to just enter a circular orbit?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Oh good lord, your burn time will be lucky to reach 150x150
<Bornholio>
you can as long as it can do it in a single burn
<NathanKell|WORK>
PEG does not support coasting.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah!
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NathanKell|WORK: but it works with the previous Ascent Guidance :( but yeah, I do coast to Ap
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yeah. PEG is not for coasting. So that's why.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
TIL :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Why on earth do you want to use that LV for that orbit?
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
what :D
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it's just meant for generic LEO
<NathanKell|WORK>
So why is the Pe (and Ap) so high?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
because I just changed them to fit the flight profile of this PEG thing
<NathanKell|WORK>
generic LEO is usually either 185x185, or 150x150 (parking) or 150x280 (Mercury, Gemini, etc)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
before that I typicall have an Ap of 200km
<NathanKell|WORK>
"changed to fit the flight profile" ?
<NathanKell|WORK>
I'm confused, the flight profile follows what you put in :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
unless it doesn't coast and doesn't change pitch :p
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so these were kneejerk-settings
<NathanKell|WORK>
Also for the love of all that's holy, stretch that upper stage
<NathanKell|WORK>
or add a third stage
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
this is early tech!
<NathanKell|WORK>
so add a third stage
<NathanKell|WORK>
This is a 3x LR89 lower, yes?
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<NathanKell|WORK>
What's the upper?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
4 x AJ 10 early
<Bornholio>
quad aj10-37?
<NathanKell|WORK>
why not LR105?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
let me check if I have that available
<NathanKell|WORK>
3 89s is perfect for a 5 minute 105 upper
<NathanKell|WORK>
if you have the 89, you do
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
also, I'm not a historic crack like you guys :P I grew up in a country with negligible spaceflight history... not in the glorious USA :P
<regex>
Fly it how you want man.
<Theysen_>
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yeah, just saying, you will struggle badly to have a Pe over 150km with that high a TWR and low a burn time
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
LR 105 is a sustainer..
<NathanKell|WORK>
Even if you coast, you're taking fairly severe gravity losses doing so
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NathanKell|WORK: with the old MJ Ascent guidance, i can easily fly to 500x500km ... what am I missing?
<NathanKell|WORK>
that bit I just wrote :P
<regex>
fuck that, I've used RD-171Ms for an upper stage engine
<Bornholio>
just keep two aj's in reserve for a second burn. :P
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yeah, the gravity losses will be very, very severe going to that kind of orbit
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but... why?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Um. Lemme back up
<NathanKell|WORK>
Do you get how gravity losses work?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I think it's all the time you do not fly horizontal, a part of the thrust is wasted
<NathanKell|WORK>
No, it's rather more than that
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
oh ? :D
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yeah.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ok, so
<Rokker>
Hypergolic_Skunk: jesus
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Rokker: wat :D
<Rokker>
3 89s an 4 aj10s?
<Rokker>
and
<Rokker>
gitgud
<regex>
fuck
<NathanKell|WORK>
Basically, the longer it takes you to achieve orbit, the more gravity losses you take. Your effective ('perceived') gravity is inversely proportional to horizontal velocity
<Rokker>
regex: i agree
<NathanKell|WORK>
basically, when you look at things in a rotating frame, the faster you're going, the higher the (fictitious) centrifugal force becomes, and that counteracts gravity
<regex>
Nah, rocket's fine
<Rokker>
regex: nah, i just agree with randomly saying fuck
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NathanKell|WORK: that I understand. so where is my design going wrong? :P
<NathanKell|WORK>
So basically, even if you spend most of the first stage going horizontal, you're still nowhere near orbital velocity at burnout
<NathanKell|WORK>
you're at, like, half orbital velocity
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
true
<NathanKell|WORK>
Then you coast for a while
<NathanKell|WORK>
taking large gravity losses all the while
<NathanKell|WORK>
because you're at half orbital velocity
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but if I start the second stage right away, I will have to pitch downwards to keep the Ap in check
<NathanKell|WORK>
That means your ascent wasn't flat enough
<NathanKell|WORK>
Fly PEG to 150x150
<NathanKell|WORK>
with the pitch program you have
<NathanKell|WORK>
see how much more you can loft
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ok, I'll do that now :D
<NathanKell|WORK>
stop the pitch program after 60 seconds
<NathanKell|WORK>
so basically use the pitch program you have there, set stage count to 2, hit reinit, set ap/pe to 150
<NathanKell|WORK>
click engage, launch
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
also, 4 x AJ 10 is a redundancy thing for TestFlight :p
<NathanKell|WORK>
if it still says awaiting launch in PEG< click reinit again
<NathanKell|WORK>
But even then you'll still be far under capacity for the LV's tonnage and cost, IMO, the problem is the burn time just isn't long enough for a reasonable orbit
<NathanKell|WORK>
Recall that Vanguard/Thor-Able/Thor-Delta (which used that AJ10 stage burn time) also had a sizable kick motor
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Theysen_: ALG for 1.2.2 doesn't seem to do Wheel Alignment... so ... yeah :D
<Dasm>
Pap|AFK: Wake up
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Theysen_: never mind I'm stupid
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
the LR105 has a burn time of FIVE MINUTES? :O
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<schnobs>
Hypergolic_Skunk: shouldn't it at least be, like, seven? Five minutes to orbit seems very tight.
<Theysen_>
Hypergolic_Skunk, yes it was used in a 3 engine setup of Atlas. It had the sustainer in the middle and 2 booster engines on the side which decoupled 2min45s into the flight. The core then burned on
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
schnobs: only talking about the engine. it has a rated burning time of 5m30s
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
for one reason or another, I used AJ10's for the second stage, up till now
<schnobs>
Hypergolic_Skunk: same difference. LR105 was lit on the ground and kept running almost to the very last.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
not in my rocket :P
<blowfish>
yeah, for a sustainer you'd expect it to burn for a long time
<schnobs>
So it's reated burn time should be enought to take an Atlas to space.
<blowfish>
you can definitely take advantage of 5:30 in a second stage though, assuming you have enough first stage
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
schnobs: NK and others told me to use it as the Stage2 engine, instead of 4 AJ10's
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
blowfish: I am just now discovering the advantages of doing that :P
<Sarbian>
Going to space is the easy part. Staying is the core problem ;)
<blowfish>
in real life it was used as a sustainer and has a corresponding burn time. That doesn't mean you can't use it effectively as a second stage engine
<schnobs>
Sarbian is picking nits.
<Sarbian>
It s late ;)
<blowfish>
the terminology matters though, see Rocketlab's first launch
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
one tilted runway for takeoffs, the very left one for landings. the one in the background is the Space Shuttle landing runway, which comes with Real KSC
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] raidernick opened pull request #1719: RN fix craft files for the mass and fuel overhaul previously merged (master...master) https://git.io/vQAUF
<regex>
man, I would love to use some of Real KSC's assets and move them to Wallops...
<regex>
might be my next project.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
regex: if you need help, let me know. took me a while to figure out the interface and inner workings of Kerbal Konstructs
<regex>
Yeah, don't know if I'll do anything with it.
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<Sarbian>
People, don't git pull --force past midnight. You ll mess up your project....
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<soundnfury>
Sarbian: ... don't git pull --force *ever*, it shouldn't be necessary
<soundnfury>
ohai rsparkyc
<Sarbian>
I know :-
<Sarbian>
But it looked so easier...
<xShadowx>
its ok to do it when said project belongs to a your boss who already planned to fire you for reasons of 'cutting back' ;p
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<Sarbian>
That's ground for legal action .
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Pap|AFK is now known as Pap
<Pap>
o/
<Dasm>
Pap: I'm using your stock system historic progression pack
<Pap>
Dasm: It should work with RSS, but the payouts are going to be high, make sure in the difficulty settings you nerf them
<blowfish>
I don't pull --force , but I do often reset --hard
<blowfish>
(to another branch, or a remote branch)
<Dasm>
Pap: I'm playing stock because RSS/RO gives me awful frame locks