<NathanKell|WORK>
Starwaster: yes, because when we are doing onload on a prefab, we don't want to set a modifier, we want to clobber the mass
<Starwaster>
so that couldn't possibly be the reason behind negative engine mass
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<NathanKell|WORK>
negative engine mass?
<egg>
NathanKell|WORK: Sarbian's jenkins builds are for 1.3 I think?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Starwaster: for clarity, we could check if partInfo is null, and if it is, set mass, and if it isn't, don't set mass and set delta instead. But I'n confused what you mean by negative engine mass
<NathanKell|WORK>
egg: no, his rss-dev jenkins builds
<egg>
ah
<egg>
dunno
<egg>
!wpn
* Qboid
gives egg a comma
* egg
pokes lamont with a comma
<Starwaster>
NathanKell|WORK An engine part has its mass being set negative both in the VAB and in flight... not sure where the confusion is
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<NathanKell|WORK>
Starwaster: What engine?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Because I have never seen this, and do not see how it could happen from our code alone.
<Starwaster>
it's the Terrier, configs are stockalike configs
<Starwaster>
info says 0.2, RF sets it lower to something like 0.009 and eventually negative when TL is upgraded in VAB
<NathanKell|WORK>
That sounds like the issue is elsewhere than the lines you mentioned then.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Sounds like it's in the TL logic
<NathanKell|WORK>
wait a sec
<NathanKell|WORK>
is this the terrier-with-a-tank?
<NathanKell|WORK>
what other modules are on it?
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<Starwaster>
yeah it does have tanks on it... it's not the origina it's Porkjet's
<leudaimon>
Pap, I was wondering... any reason for the lunar sample return to be have just one completion? Lunar landing/orbit/flyby etc all have some completions...
<Rokker>
NathanKell|WORK: well ill be fucking damned
<Rokker>
NathanKell|WORK: the brits might be re-entering the aerospace community
<Rokker>
Black Arrow 2's designer is claiming they have secured funding
<Pap>
leudaimon: There was no good reason
<Pap>
Mostly because I didn't think it had been done more than once
<leudaimon>
ah I see... well, one reason would be that bio sample, that is a science return experiment is not biome specific, but even though, it would be nice to have at least 2/3 completions like orbit and landing I think
<Pap>
The Soviets did it once, but now I am pretty sure that the Chinese have done it as well, right?
<Bornholio>
done all LEM missions, and planned for 3 more cancelled as a primary focus, but you are saying as an unmanned then only once
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<leudaimon>
afaik the chinese are planning it, but didn't do yet
<leudaimon>
point is, sample return in different locations is pretty relevant irl
<Rokker>
Pap: chinese and soviets have done what
<Bornholio>
I thought it was only luna 20 all this time :P
<Pap>
OK, so it should change to 3 completions, I agree
<Pap>
Thanks leudaimon and Bornholio
<leudaimon>
cool
<leudaimon>
btw, it's a shame surface samples are manned only
<Rokker>
leudaimon: someone made a part long ago
<Rokker>
that could scoop samples
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<Rokker>
dunno if its up to date
<Bornholio>
i think thats appropriate but there needs to be a different sample because trained geologists can pick the important parts out and be selective
<leudaimon>
well, I think some kind of high yield experiment should be manned only, it's just that surface samples are the main thing with robotic sample return missions
<Bornholio>
in seti mod
<leudaimon>
ninjaed
<Bornholio>
lots of stuff in seti
<Bornholio>
probe wise its a good addition but its tech tree portion confilicts
<github>
RP-0/master d26c53f pap1723: Change Lunar Sample and Lunar Rover to Complete 3 Times
<Pap>
leudaimon: add it to the Science Document
<Pap>
I think we should have it as well
<Pap>
Coatl Aerospace has the Surveyor Soil Scoop
<leudaimon>
what science document Pap?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Sarbian: is the new PEG capable of performing a timed launch into the Lunar plane? when I pick the Moon as the target, click 'Launch into target plane' and engage Autopilot, there is no more countdown and the engines are ignited immediately
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
uhm, actually none of the launch options offer a countdown anymore
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: I had that same thing happen as well
<leudaimon>
oh, didn't know about this doc Pap
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
\o/ it's not me
<Pap>
However, it worked the first time I did it, so maybe it is not resetting the value it uses to determine the time to wait to launch?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
(for a change)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
if I click 'launch to rendezvous', there is a timer
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I usually don't use that option because I don't know what it does :p
<Pap>
!tell lamont There is some strange occurance with new MJ when trying to launch into the Plane of a Target. It seems to work the first time, but then some value is not getting reset and if you do it again, it will launch automatically
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Pap>
Raidernick: Good news, almost every single one of those parts are placed in the tree (costs are a whole different story)
<Raidernick>
isn't cost a major part of that though?
<Bornholio>
tech tree is easy just know the year, cost is... hard research in depth or estimate and guesstimate
<Pap>
Yes, but for example, how much does a decoupler that was on the Soyuz LK-OK cost? There is no information about that, so then it becomes a guess Raidernick
<Raidernick>
that would be impossible to find even for US stuff
<Raidernick>
soviet stuff has no info at all for anything ever
<Pap>
For fuel tanks, it requires building teh equivelent tanks with procedural parts and then determining what the cost of those are to then attribute those costs to the pre-built fuel tank
<Bornholio>
limited info. project costs are sometimes available
<Raidernick>
but you can geuss based on the weight of the part and what it's made of for how much it costs sorta
<Pap>
I know, that is what I am doing, but it takes a long time
<Raidernick>
Bornholio, most of the project costs that do exist are late soviet era projects and mostly propoganda lies
<Raidernick>
getting real info about the real important stuff is murder
<Starwaster>
pap actually I just tried it and it didn't even do a timed launch the first time
<Bornholio>
costs from some of the design groups are ocassionally realistic
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<NathanKell>
o/
<NathanKell>
Pap: Are you using lamont's release or sarbian's?
<NathanKell>
Pap: (and Hypergolic_Skunk): I have had no trouble launching to plane with lamont's #15
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vQhcE
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master a67628b PhineasFreak: Reduce the maximum wheel speed
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master acaaee2 NathanKell: Merge pull request #1721 from PhineasFreak/RO-Squad-Wheels-Updates...
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I think Lamont's
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
the one that Sarbian linked yesterday
<NathanKell>
I am going to keep using it since it mostly works, I'm waiting to hear from them both as to if the one from sarbian's jenkins is more up-to-date
<NathanKell>
:)
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<Raidernick>
NathanKell|Loading, sarbian has a build from yesterday #15 is from a week ago
<Raidernick>
don't think that means anything though
<Pap>
NathanKell: I used the one that Sarbian linked to us yesterday
<Starwaster>
pap: re: your launch to plane issue, assuming you're using the PEG right? Did it throw a bunch of exception warnings? If so, switch back to another guidance mode and then back to PEG AGAIN, and this time it shouldn't throw anything. THEN try the launch to plane
<Pap>
Ahhhh StarwasterI did see a bunch of Orange exception warnings on the top of the screen
<Pap>
Thanks
<NathanKell|Loading>
I'm still using the one from a week ago and it's working fine. I'm scared to change :D
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<Starwaster>
yeah NathanKell|Twitch, change. That one has far worse bugs
<Pap>
Change is bad, avoid change
<Bornholio>
change is a vacation
<Starwaster>
though frankly, (and not to be mean) this was no way near ready for prime time... it's still got issue and is too easily confused by different designs.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
I have yet to hit a serious issue with the one I am using tbh
<Starwaster>
yeah, it likes to plunge my rockets into the ocean and they're not anything particularly unusual
<Starwaster>
I've suggested that just maybe defaulting to an unguided gravity turn might not be the best thing to do when it can't come to a solution but what do I know
<Raidernick>
Starwaster, it can't control high twr, low control authority rockets like the delta ii at all
<Raidernick>
it can't hold prograde even a bit
<Raidernick>
and the second these rockets pull even slightly off prograde they disintegrate
<Raidernick>
it's a shame
<Raidernick>
so far i've only gotten it to work with the proton
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
anyway, good night all o/
<Starwaster>
I don't thik I gave it anything particuarly high TWR... except maybe once with a high twr third stage... I tried varying that but it did even worse with a lower twr engine. I think I gave it something equivalent to an rl10
<Bornholio>
?
<Raidernick>
Starwaster, the proton has a perfect twr balance on all stages and remains even throughtout flight
<Raidernick>
and i got it to work with that sorta
<Raidernick>
but anything without 100% ideal stats i've been having a lot of trouble with
<Bornholio>
just have to have the burn time to do it
<Bornholio>
if the rocket needs to coast it can't PEG
<Raidernick>
Bornholio, i almsot never coast
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<Raidernick>
the only rockets i've used that do are juno derived ones and the scout
<Raidernick>
but neither the ksp or mechjeb pid are good enough to control those at all
<Raidernick>
they need to be manually controlled
<Raidernick>
pid doesn't work too well on delta ii either actually
<Raidernick>
it wobbles all over
<Raidernick>
manual control is easier
<Bornholio>
? I don't usually use anything purely historical except atlas mercury and PEG has handled most of the weird crap i've tossed at it, barring too high TWR and not enough burn time
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<Raidernick>
Bornholio, yeah the 9 booster delta ii kills it
<Raidernick>
it can't even remotely handle that
<Raidernick>
the stage state freak out
<Raidernick>
and it immediately loses prograde and explodes
<Raidernick>
i don't think it's PEG's fault though I think the PID is just bad
<Raidernick>
whether i tell the stock sas or mechjebs to hold prograde neither can they start to slowly wobble and get worse and worse until it flips
<Pap>
So !CONFIG[RL10A-4] {} is the stnyax to delete one Engine Config, but what is the proper syntax to delete all configs except one that matches what I am looking for?
<Pap>
I know I have seen it before, I cannot find it however
<Raidernick>
i didnt know you could do that i've just removed them all 1 by 1
<Bornholio>
Raidernick is that with reduced gimbal? I find if the aero surfaces or gimbal is set too high it will wobble
<Raidernick>
Bornholio, it's with whatever the published values are
<Bornholio>
gimbal set too high is like having too much proportional on the PID loop
<Raidernick>
Bornholio, if you have to deviate the configs from irl values then there is something wrong with the game imo not the rocket
<Bornholio>
yes but you can tune two things, the input strength (gimnbal and control authority) or the PID itself
<Raidernick>
the PID should be the thing to take into account the phase of flight and how to handle the control authority
<Raidernick>
you shouldn't need to manually tune it down until the dynamic pressure drops
<Raidernick>
because later in the flight you need it again
<Raidernick>
some of these rockets have 12 gimbaling engines on a single stage
<Bornholio>
I find i've dropped any engines that matter by that time
<Raidernick>
manually tuning each of them during flight is not practical
<Raidernick>
Bornholio, they matter for the first minute of the flight
<Raidernick>
which is when you have the msot engines on these rockets
<Raidernick>
you even admitted you don't use historical designs
<Raidernick>
maybe yours are simpler
<Raidernick>
like i said i didn't have issues with the proton
<Bornholio>
The A-4 A-9 for instance, always turn it down to 20-30% or wobble fest , but they are gone after a 1:10 so no reseting higher is needed
<Raidernick>
it's just certain designs that don't work
<Raidernick>
but those designs are impractical to tune in real time by hand
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<Starwaster>
raidernick what kind of twr does the proton have on its last stage? The one that it actually inserts with?
<Raidernick>
uh despends on the payload
<Raidernick>
i use it for launches of it's max payload only
<Raidernick>
first stage is 1.43, second is 0.98 and third is 0.99
<Raidernick>
for upper limits max payload
<Raidernick>
all the stages end at around twr of 3
<Raidernick>
it's super easy and smooth to fly
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<Starwaster>
raidernick and those are all tsarting twr right?
<Bornholio>
funny misstype
<Raidernick>
yes
<Raidernick>
Starwaster
<Starwaster>
bornholio don't tsart with me!
<Starwaster>
raidernick trying to fool PEG into flying my Delta IV
<Bornholio>
Revolution you horrible Tsarist
<Raidernick>
Starwaster, the delta iv will make it throw a fit with the dcss
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQhl7
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master 9aa1c87 pap1723: Add 17D12 config to RD-58 Engine...
<Pap>
Raidernick: in case you are wondering, this is the context for that: !CONFIG,*:HAS[~name[17D12]] {}
<Pap>
o/
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<Raidernick>
ok cool
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQhBu
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master cbe22b1 NathanKell: Separate out 2kN thruster plume. Fix missing AZ50 configs for 1kn and 2kn thrusters. Can someone fix the positioning of the 2kN plume? Thanks! ( @Theysen IIRC you fixed the 1kN)
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master 4bfd3ab raidernick: Merge pull request #1722 from raidernick/master...
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<Dasm>
I have a problem.. when I press my alt key, windows doesn't register that I release the key until I press it again- I tested with onscreen keyboard and it does the same thing. Any ideas?
<gazpachian>
that sounds like some windows slow key setting
<gazpachian>
where it will treat mod keys as triggers so you don't have to press them all at once to do combinations
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<Dasm>
Yeah, when I press alt and watch the onscreen keyboard it shows both alt keys lit
<gazpachian>
well, check the ease of access settings for sticky keys
<gazpachian>
don't know which version of windows you're on, so where to find those settings may vary
<Dasm>
10
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<gazpachian>
On 7 it's under Ease of Access Center in the control panel
<gazpachian>
I imagine they'll be calling it something similar in 10
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<Dasm>
I'm not seeing anything
<gazpachian>
huh. Any third party applications that could be responsible then?
<Dasm>
I just did a sfc scan, and I'm pretty sure no
<regex>
I'm noticing a bunch of textures missing, flies by in the upper right of the screen, is that normal for an RO install? Stuff like FASA, BDB, and SXT.
<NathanKell|Loading>
yes
<NathanKell|Loading>
um
<NathanKell|Loading>
maybe?
<NathanKell|Loading>
Dunno
<regex>
The textures are actually missing from the directories.
<NathanKell|Loading>
Depends what
<regex>
weird.
<NathanKell|Loading>
ah that _is_ odd
<regex>
[ERR 22:43:11.755] Texture 'FASA/Apollo/ApolloCSM/FoilBlack' not found!
<NathanKell|Loading>
What's it from?
<NathanKell|Loading>
the part that is, that's trying to link that
<regex>
No idea yet.
<regex>
ApolloCSM, I guess
<regex>
There's a ton of them, I'm going to let the game load and see what happens.
<NathanKell|Loading>
If it's a clone of ours, and is outdated, that would explain it
<NathanKell|Loading>
if not, then I dunno :(
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<regex>
hrm...
<NathanKell|Twitch>
See if stuff looks screwy ingame?
<regex>
Yeah, why not
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<regex>
Everything's cool, I just enabled all errors showing on the screen from the debug console and thus never noticed them. Safely ignoring.
<regex>
anyway, o/
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<Theysen>
okay configuring SSTU stuff is a PITA, especially the procedural stuff
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<Theysen_>
!tell Pap*, can you enlighten me about the 300km periapsis requirement for the reentry tests? Thanks :)
<Qboid>
Theysen_: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Theysen_>
!tell Pap*, nvm I can't read.
<Qboid>
Theysen_: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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Pap|Sleep is now known as Pap
<Pap>
o/
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [19.07.2017 07:31:02]: "I noticed the NK-15V is for some reason in the NK-43 node. Pushing it back"
<Qboid>
Pap: Theysen_ left a message for you in #RO [19.07.2017 11:12:28]: "can you enlighten me about the 300km periapsis requirement for the reentry tests? Thanks :)"
<Qboid>
Pap: Theysen_ left a message for you in #RO [19.07.2017 11:13:12]: "nvm I can't read."
<taniwha>
hi, Pap
<Pap>
o/ taniwha
<Pap>
o/ Theysen_
<taniwha>
hehe, 300km pe for reentry...
<taniwha>
30km, perhaps?
<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* Thanks for the NK-15V fix!
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Pap>
I don't think there is any periapsis requirement
<Theysen_>
Pap, I screwed the question up completely... iirc there was a apoapsis requirement before at 300km, it is now 150km which is completely fine. Sorry
<Pap>
Gotcha Theysen_
<Pap>
Are you configging SSTU parts?
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<Theysen_>
i tried to update the interstage decouplers with the inbuilt solids etc but no MM patch works with the custom modules affecting the fuels and thrust.
<Pap>
Theysen_: I use those a ton right now, what were you trying to change about them?
<Theysen_>
they scale way toooooooo big. They then deliver TWR's of > 5 and about 150m/s of delta v because on the smallest step of solid fuel it is soo darn much.
<Theysen_>
can't fine tune them.
<Pap>
ahh, I hear ya, I always shrink the size down, let me peek at it
<Theysen_>
I tried using it for a Sat V build and it went off the roof. You can change all the normal stuff like usual but I can't get the correct fuels nor thrust to work.
<Pap>
The MODULE[SSTUInterstageDecoupler]:NEEDS[SSTU]:AFTER[SSTU] is what you should change, you had no luck there?
<Theysen_>
It has those UseRF = False and fuelPreset = SolidFuel, removing, editing or adjusting them either NRE or just reverts back to SolidFuel
<Theysen_>
I don't know HOW he initializes the propellants and the scaling
<Theysen_>
might be somewhere in SSTUTools.dll and thanks but no thanks
<Theysen_>
nvm the white planets, I installed the wrong DOE confif
<Pap>
Theysen_: SSTU is setting the stuff in FuelTypes
<Pap>
Holy shit, that is unreal looking
<Theysen_>
:)
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<Theysen_>
Pap, and that is where? Don't find that in the mod's config
<Pap>
That is in the SSTU/Data folder
<Theysen_>
Pap, yes and I assume fuelPreset = Solid is referencing this. So it shouldn't do it when I delete the node.
<Theysen_>
*if* we go to 1.3 we can probably start over with SSTU anyways
<Pap>
Theysen_: I have been approaching it from starting over with SSTU for 1.3. By the time it all gets configured, we'll be in 1.3
<Theysen_>
Pap, yeah I don't know if it's worth borthing it for the moment, at least as long one can work around it.
<Pap>
I agree, I have started a spreadsheet for all the SSTU parts
<Theysen_>
would love to help on there
<Theysen_>
It seems frustrating so I can dump my anger there.
<Pap>
awesome, let me get it organized and I willl share it
<Theysen_>
many many parts got deleted
<Theysen_>
switched functionwise and RO configs for anything different than engines is *basic*
<Theysen_>
except Apollo and Orion which stratochief did , my man
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<Pap>
Yeah, it is very band-aided together which is why I decided to go at it from a place of starting over. It is the mod that I use the most and I want it to work the best
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<Theysen_>
upcoming capsule are also gonna be nice!
<Pap>
Oh yeah, Mercury, VA, Gemini and Dragon V2, very awesome!
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hey Pap, Theysen_ o/
<Pap>
o/ Hypergolic_Skunk What are you planning on breaking today? ;)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: trying to avoid the kraken :(
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
also, I'd like to install the MJ Lamont version NK talked about yesterday, but I cannot find it
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: It turns out that it is the same version
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I knew
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it
<Pap>
Starwaster figured out the issue
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I just knew it! sarbian specifically mentioned Lamont
<Pap>
In order to get the Launch into Plane of Target to work, clikc on the PEG guidance and switch off of it. When you then switch back to PEG, it will work correctly
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I had the countdown appear on me once yesterday, but it was completely off, and launched at 40 degrees relative to the Moon
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
starting KSP now to try it 'your way' :P
<Pap>
Not my way :)
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
streaming now. going to launch for the Moon.
<Pap>
Yay!!!! Let me piut on my heckling shoes
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
^
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
expect from 'eclectic' music from the early 90s
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
s/from/some
<Qboid>
Hypergolic_Skunk meant to say: expect some 'eclectic' music from the early 90s
<Theysen_>
Pap, btw shouldn't the FASA Agena Antenna not unlock with the Guidance Unit?
<Pap>
Theysen_: should technically open with the Agena D
<Theysen_>
aya
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<Theysen>
I would continue chatting with you but you just activated follow to chat mode?!
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<Theysen>
nvm twitch bugged
<KevinStarwaster>
pap see? Starwaster knows shit
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<Pap>
bad news Starwaster, it didn't work for Hypergolic_Skunk
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<Starwaster>
I can get it to work fairly consistently now once it initializes without that error
<Starwaster>
what did I tell him, switch modes away and then back again? Maybe he didn't follow that precisely, I dunno.
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] PhineasFreak opened pull request #1724: [Maintenance] Trim the size and position of some plumes (master...RO-Plume-Trimming) https://git.io/vQjrs
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
did it on the stream while they were watching :p
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<Pap>
!tell Maxsimal I don't know if you have heard back from Nightingale, but try commenting out the REQUIREMENT to wait a certain amount of days to generate the contract again. Let me know if that works
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Maxsimal>
o/ Pap
<Qboid>
Maxsimal: Pap left a message for you in #RO [19.07.2017 16:15:36]: "I don't know if you have heard back from Nightingale, but try commenting out the REQUIREMENT to wait a certain amount of days to generate the contract again. Let me know if that works"
<Maxsimal>
Pap: I'll try that when I get home - but it works on all the other contracts that I have set up the exact same way, as far as that part of it goes
<Maxsimal>
Pap: And yeah I haven't heard back from nightingale yet - he was logged into the forum not too long ago, but I guess he's still busy.
<Pap>
Maxsimal: yeah, I am just trying to eliminate some variables for bug fixing. It really doesn't make a lot of sense
<Maxsimal>
Pap: No worries, I will try it even if it doesn't make sense, who knows :P
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<Maxsimal>
Pap: I would like to have the cooldown period work eventually though. I think it adds something. Actually, one other thing I'd like to do - and I'm not sure if it's possible - is to check if the required payload is onboard, and then have the contract fail if it doesn't reach the required altitude. Might be nice to have some contracts where you actually can't just keep trying them till you succeed. How would you feel about that?
<Maxsimal>
Anyway, I'm heading home, later
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<Theysen>
You'll all shame me as monster when I send that astronaut in a mercury cislunar right?
<Bornholio>
you monster :P
<Theysen>
thinking about missions for later
<Bornholio>
you could have used the gemini lander pod its even smaller
<Theysen>
I think I'll scrap that :D
<Theysen>
oh yes baby
<Theysen>
3 days in practical vacuum with all the radiation and other hazards.
<gazpachian>
cislunar free return is at least 5 days, right?
<gazpachian>
call it conservative tax money spending and you're one of the good guys, maybe
<Theysen>
:^)
<Theysen>
but it would be so kerbal
<gazpachian>
yeah, everyone else does it anyways. Not just in your little RIS challenge ;)
<gazpachian>
but you could always argue that as long as RO doesn't have something like USI LS hab time built in it's fair game
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<Bornholio>
I don't send crew outside earth SOI unless i can generate gravity and have at least 3 spaces per crew. https://imgur.com/a/42RFs
<lamont>
How are you launching into plane of orbit “twice”? And I don’t think I touched that code, so I suspect its a long standing bug in that…
<gazpachian>
bornholio, do I even want to know the part count on that beast?
<gazpachian>
I love it, btw!
<Bornholio>
after welding 174
<Bornholio>
before welding so many i retired 1&2 because of lag and docking
<gazpachian>
yeah, I need to familiarize myself with that welding mod right quick
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
welding mod?
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<Maxsimal>
Pap: Hey, tried removing all the 'wait for contract to cool down' requirements, it didn't help. I need to do a few things, but I'll try to keep removing requirements until they're all gone
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<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap, Maxsimal FYI, IMO we need to get launch costs in before release, because otherwise we will release *two* save-breaking RP-0 updates.
<Qboid>
NathanKell|WORK: Pap left a message for you in #RO [19.07.2017 13:25:37]: "Thanks for the NK-15V fix!"
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<Pap>
Maxsimal: how is it coming along? Would you like some tagging help?
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<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: How close would you say we are to a release?
<Theysen_>
a nyone knows why the PEG MechJeb version doesn't autowarp?
<NathanKell|WORK>
to what?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Once launch costs are in, I think we're good. Between Bornholio and me we're far enough into the tree to have a good long time worth of gameplay
<Theysen_>
maneuver ^
<NathanKell|WORK>
Theysen_: Align to node, then hit . then immediately hit ,
<NathanKell|WORK>
MJ will take over
<Pap>
I would agree
<NathanKell|WORK>
Its threshold for engaging warp is too high
<Pap>
Where are the tags located?
<Theysen_>
NathanKell|WORK, thanks will try..
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: They are added in the form of:
<NathanKell|WORK>
MODULE
<NathanKell|WORK>
{
<NathanKell|WORK>
name = ModuleTagWhatever
<NathanKell|WORK>
}
<NathanKell|WORK>
one per tag
<Pap>
Sorry, I meant where is the list of tags you created? I was looking and couldn't find them
<Maxsimal>
NathanKell|Pap Sorry was afk. I didn't start last night - gf was sick last night. I'll get cracking on it tonight, not sure if there is a good way to divvy work.
<Maxsimal>
Pap: You've put a list of tags in a sheet? I guess I'll be adding just the abbreviation to the tags you've listed in the tag column?
<Pap>
Maxsimal: I actually have a different idea, hold on one minute
<Maxsimal>
Pap: ok sure
<Pap>
Maxsimal: can you jump on the chat in the sheet?
<Maxsimal>
pap: I've replied
<Theysen_>
Pap, would you know if CC is very efficient about condition checking? Since I accepted the commsat network my performance crawls
<lamont>
Thysen: NodeExecutor autowarp is entirely unrelated to PEG. Its very picky about trying to zero out angular rotation before autowarping but the PID seems to have too large of a deadzone, nothing to do with ascents though
<Pap>
Theysen_: I am not positive, I know CC used to have issues, but that was 10 versions ago. Do not know if it still exists. Could be because it is constantly searching for RT connection maybe
<Maxsimal>
NathanKell: Btw, I think we should add a module tag for decouplers. Staging is another thing that should have a high integration cost.
<Bornholio>
you guys are really trying to make cost balance very painful :P
<NathanKell|WORK>
Theysen yes I can imagine it'd be slow
<NathanKell|WORK>
Maxsimal: no worries, hope she feels better soon!
<NathanKell|WORK>
Theysen_: Vessel checks can be quite slow.
<Theysen_>
lamont, gotcha! I guess I jsut had a very "wobbly" vessel on this one, in my mind it worked flawless every other time, makes sense!
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<Theysen_>
Pap, immediately good performance after completion... that's unfortunate :/
<Pap>
Damn
<Theysen_>
there should be a function where you click a button and it then checks the current situation once
<Theysen_>
at least RT related stuff
<Pap>
Theysen_: that would be a good idea
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<Maxsimal>
NTO/MMH is toxic, yes?
<NathanKell|WORK>
yes
<UmbralRaptor>
very yes
<Bornholio>
both of them are toxis
<Maxsimal>
Hrmm - I'm wondering if the toxic tag should be done by directly patch - because it's going to change for RCS based on the config.
<UmbralRaptor>
!w monomethylhydrazine
<UmbralRaptor>
(wikipedia gives MMH the coveted 444 hazard diamond)
<Theysen_>
working around it you also need to carry a detector like a geiger counter and nuclear stuff iirc
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<Bornholio>
its actually very stabile and storable but yeah nasty, you can burn rust off of steel with it
<regex>
How is the toxic tag going to work?
<regex>
Also Cavea-B and a whole host of other shit we added back in the day.
<Maxsimal>
It's just going to apply another multiplier to engines that use toxic propellants
<regex>
cost multiplier?
<Maxsimal>
Well, the point of these tags is to sort out which parts will have what sort of integration costs.
<regex>
Oh, gotcha. Wasn't sure what was being worked on. Awesome.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Maxsimal: Tragically KCT does not support parts changing tags at runtime I fear
<NathanKell|WORK>
Best we ask Magico I guess
<Pap>
What is the MM syntax for adding to the end of the tags info in PART Config?
<NathanKell|WORK>
MODULE
<NathanKell|WORK>
{
<NathanKell|WORK>
name = newTag
<NathanKell|WORK>
}
<NathanKell|WORK>
they are partmodules
<NathanKell|WORK>
just like you'd add a MODULE { name = ModuleEngines }
<NathanKell|WORK>
or antyhing else
<NathanKell|WORK>
If it is easier, you can just write to the preset, instead of using the tags
<NathanKell|WORK>
but that is worse IMO
<NathanKell|WORK>
(there are a variety of issues with that)
<Pap>
Oh no, sorry, I did not explain well
<Pap>
The tags = (search terms)
<Pap>
line in a PART cfg
<NathanKell|WORK>
oh, so not the tag system I added?
<NathanKell|WORK>
(for launch costs)
<Pap>
No a different one
<NathanKell|WORK>
for the part search tags, just use regexp
<Pap>
ah, ok, thanks
<NathanKell|WORK>
look at how we add PART NOT SUPPORTED BY RO
<NathanKell|WORK>
that will give you the syntax for appending
<Maxsimal>
NathanKell: So a config for RCS or an engine doesn't change the part itself? I would have expected it to, and KCT to work off of it - otherwise, KCT wouldn't care about having engines with more expensive costs when you change the config (which I assume it does)
<Maxsimal>
NathanKell: Also, I think you missed my question about hadding a decoupler tag - or maybe you saw it and I missed the response.
<NathanKell|WORK>
missed it
<Maxsimal>
!s hadding/having
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ah, hmm
<NathanKell|WORK>
makes sense
<Maxsimal>
NathanKell: And yeah - I think a decoupler tag would be a good idea, as decouplers should create higher integration costs.
<egg>
hm, it may have been a bad idea to ping on "integration"
<NathanKell|WORK>
egg: with you around, it may have been a bad idea to ping on my name :P
<egg>
NK?
<Qboid>
egg: [NK] => Николай Кузнецов
<Maxsimal>
General question - are there any liquid rocket fuels/oxiders besides LOX, Kerosene, Hydrogen, and Ethanol that wouldn't count as toxic?
<ferram4>
I actually don't know if Cavea-B is toxic. It might simply be unstable.
<egg>
ferram4: ask in kspacademia?
<Bornholio>
dissolved in white fuming nitric acid. the nitric makes it toxics
<Bornholio>
Cavea-B is a dense, stable, viscous solution of an amine nitrate salt
<Maxsimal>
!tell Pap I've done the first 300 lines, gonna go for a little while, will pick up again later.
<Qboid>
Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
Does this look correct NathanKell|WORK... @tags ^=:$:, apollo, apollo-les, les
<Qboid>
Pap: Maxsimal left a message for you in #RO [19.07.2017 20:34:07]: "I've done the first 300 lines, gonna go for a little while, will pick up again later."
<NathanKell|WORK>
can't recall offhand sorry :(
<NathanKell|WORK>
just compare to existing patches I'd say
<Pap>
OK, no worry, that is what I did, testing will prove it out
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<regex>
Yes, finally back into orbital rockets
<egg>
regex: principia \o/
<regex>
is the next version out egg?
<regex>
I need to check on the pparts thing too
<egg>
the next version is not out, I'm trying to get it working :-p
<egg>
seems ok, but brittle unit tests are brittle
<regex>
That's why they're tests
<egg>
nah tests need not be brittle; but the API of the ksp_plugin::Plugin is messy, so it's hard to test
<regex>
make it better?
<regex>
big money, no performances losses...
<egg>
regex: well over time we're mothing things out of the plugin into better abstractions, but it takes time
<soundnfury>
so long as you don't care about _performance_, it's great ;)
<soundnfury>
... and I've just realised you were making a laughing-gas joke. Nvm.
<egg>
:D
<Starwaster>
soundnfury I was about to react incredulously to your claim of non-toxicity on N₂O until I realized I was mentally inserting a ₄ where there wasn't one...
<Starwaster>
derrrrrr
<soundnfury>
Starwaster: /me chortles
* Starwaster
gives himself the Facepalm of Shame
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<Theysen_>
Pap, NathanKell|WORK I love how you now actually have to conduct separate missions landing on the Moon to get significant amount of science to unlock lunar heatshields and bigger capsules. Very very nice
<Bornholio>
tha '56 orbital rocketry is too big of a jump completely opens up orbital work.
<Maxsimal>
Bornholio: Agreed - one reason I made those sounding rockets with ramping difficulty, so there's something vaguely interesting to do before you unlock '56. But yeah it does feel like you go from a crawl to a run just from hitting that node.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
is it normal that my procedural avionics for the booster stage uses 40KW for 118t?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
90% utilization
<Maxsimal>
Which tech node?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
basicAvionics
<Maxsimal>
Doesn't seem normal to me
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
the Saturn Instrument unit can do 1.500 tons, and uses 0.5kW
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
something's fishy :D
<Maxsimal>
The proc avionics cfg says that it should be a lower kw/controlled ton. What I don't understand is why the avionic density changes so dramatically in that tuning file
<Maxsimal>
Message leudaimon and tell him what's wrong, he needs to look at these
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
will do, thank you
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<leudaimon>
Maxsimal, iirc I configged each type of avionics with a fixed "density" (the density parameter) but as tonnage per ton increases, the effective density increases
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<leudaimon>
now, 40kW is way high Hypergolic_Skunk
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:D
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
the weird thing (at least to me) is that the power requirement changes with volume, despite identical tonnage
<Maxsimal>
leudaimon: Effective density? So what does standardAvionicsDensity do?
<leudaimon>
ah Hypergolic_Skunk, there is a typo in the config for this node
<leudaimon>
should be 32, and it's 320
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ahaha :D
<leudaimon>
i thought I had fixed that, soundnfury noticed it some days ago
<Bornholio>
blessed be the HTP RCS as it saves yet another mission.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
RCS is so underrated
<leudaimon>
Maxsimal, I don't understand exactly what standardAvionicsDensity does, but afaik it is the density of the avionics, so if your part has 1T, it will have a given total volume. But as tonnage/Ton increases, you need less avionics mass for a given controlled tonnage
<Maxsimal>
Yeah I'm doing a spin-stabilized moon orbiter probe that's only done with RCS
<leudaimon>
and then the part size goes down
<github>
[RP-0] leudaimon opened pull request #729: fix typo in procedural avionics (master...patch-2) https://git.io/v7eDJ
<Bornholio>
I think alot of the confusion would go away with utilization number removed. just make it a fixed density and give it tonnage per unit at a tech
<Maxsimal>
I guess I should ask rsparkyc what all these parameters do, easier to understand when I see the specific formulas he's using
<leudaimon>
as I see Bornholio, rsparkyc really values this utilization mechanic...
<leudaimon>
if I had to make a proc avionics from scratch, I would have gone in a much simpler route, and less elegant... just a "avionics juice" resource, with tech levels for tonnage/Ton and energy comsumption, possibly with additional cost for being able do disable, and add a science container
<leudaimon>
the system created by rsparkyc is nice... it just needs some refining
* soundnfury
also really likes the utilisation control
<leudaimon>
utilization should work in a more tight band I think, it's a nightmare to balance things right now. And I think you should be able to add an empty tank to the part, for batteries and RCS
<soundnfury>
hmm... should I go for a venus lander in the 1954 window (in the RIS game)?
<soundnfury>
decisions, decisions...
<leudaimon>
part of the balancing problems is that cost and utilization is not working as intended
<leudaimon>
I'm going for it soundnfury
<leudaimon>
and an altimeter also
<soundnfury>
altimeter?
<soundnfury>
atmosphere probe? (I'm doing that one already)
<leudaimon>
also went for a mars orbiter in the 1954 window
<leudaimon>
from scansat
<leudaimon>
atmosphere probe will be my lander
<soundnfury>
ohh, that
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<soundnfury>
that must be a heavy probe, then
<soundnfury>
if it's gonna get a radar scanner into low orbit
<leudaimon>
two probes, one with the lander and other with the altimeter
<leudaimon>
I'm not going for low orbit, unless I take the time to aerobrake...
<soundnfury>
... then your altimeter won't be much use ???
<leudaimon>
I'm hopping to manage to get "half" of the planet below 500km
<soundnfury>
ah, 'k
* soundnfury
has his doubts about that plan
<leudaimon>
yeah, me too
<soundnfury>
but "good" luck
<soundnfury>
;)
* xShadowx
usually has doubts about plans
<soundnfury>
anyway, I think I'll leave the cytherean surface to you for now
<soundnfury>
as I have no reason to believe I'll beat you to it
<leudaimon>
but the contract deadline is huge, so I can send a backup with more delta-v later
<leudaimon>
well, launch windows are pretty random about who gets there first
<leudaimon>
I still have months before launch
<leudaimon>
did you go for mars soundnfury?
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<soundnfury>
leudaimon: yeah, I've got two probes heading there
<leudaimon>
yeah, me too
<soundnfury>
one is a hella expedited transfer, the other should be able to get orbit
<leudaimon>
I couldn't keep up with the forum posts... too busy
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<leudaimon>
soundnfury, what about the jupiter window? are you going for it?
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: haven't made a decision yet. Depends how busy I am with other things
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<Pap>
o/
<leudaimon>
o/
<leudaimon>
I'm definitely going for it soundnfury
<leudaimon>
Pap, how close to the waypoint do I have to be in the GEO weather sat contract?
<Pap>
leudaimon: when was the last time you updated the contracts?
<leudaimon>
long...
<leudaimon>
I'm just above it and the contract didn't complete
<Pap>
Then it probably won't work...but, 42736000 meters
<Pap>
There is an issue with it where horizontal distance needs to be set, basically if you are within 1/16 of the globe radians, you would complete it