<Hypergolic_Skunk>
soundnfury: I see your Merlin, and raise you by an HWK 109-509A :P
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<soundnfury>
you can't see _and_ raise
<soundnfury>
one or the other
<soundnfury>
(or so I'm told)
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I never played poker :P
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<soundnfury>
nor I
<soundnfury>
o/ rsparkyc
<rsparkyc>
\o
<Pap>
Bornholio: strange, might be a setting I have with the scientists unable to remove data. Something weird with Mass Spec not storing anything. Hmmmmm, I'll take a look in an hour or so.
<Bornholio>
one time it will allow transfer then not other times
<awang>
What is the reason to use the Junkers Jumo 213E over the 213A?
<awang>
The latter has more power, and has pretty much exactly the same stats, and is less expensive
<awang>
Also, are B9 proc things supposed to have tooling costs?
<Bornholio>
pap its not that it doesn't store its that there is no transfer data or ability to use the science box collect data function
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<Pap>
Bornholio: you couldn't send it back by clicking on transmit?
<Bornholio>
neither device did a transmit
<Bornholio>
i'll look again though
<Pap>
I am loading up a test now as well
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v5erc
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 277e9c5 NathanKell: Don't report length in tooling string GetDimensions() if length is 0
<NathanKell>
Pap: Anything I can help with before starting a new campaign?
<Bornholio>
NathanKell you use [X] science normally?
<Pap>
Let me test this before you start NathanKell, otherwise, you might not need to restart if it doesn't work
<NathanKell>
I haven’t restarted yet tho
<NathanKell>
haven’t started with new science
<Pap>
That is what I am saying, the new science has come across a bug
<Pap>
Bornholio: That is working as intended then, correct?
<Pap>
My test just went smoothly
<NathanKell>
\o/
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<Pap>
NathanKell: Start it up!
<leudaimon>
o/
<Pap>
o/
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<leudaimon>
so, what will NK start up?
<Pap>
He is restarting his career
<NathanKell>
firin mah lazers
<NathanKell>
(and waaaaaiting)
<leudaimon>
cool
<Pap>
But at least the pictures are pretty while you wait
<leudaimon>
guess I'll start a test again
<leudaimon>
lol
<leudaimon>
I can't remember the last time I loaded MM cache
<Pap>
lol, nor can I!
<leudaimon>
just RP-0 needs to be redownloaded, right?
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<Pap>
leudaimon: yes, and make sure you have DMAgix Orbital Science and DMagic Module Science Animate mods
<leudaimon>
ok, I'll find out what is DMagic Module Science Animate
<leudaimon>
Pap, version 0.16?
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<NathanKell>
oh (*#*%@
<NathanKell>
forgot the plugins
<NathanKell>
Pap do you have links to those required mods/plugins?
<NathanKell>
nm found
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<ferram4>
NathanKell, is it time for a no-hydrolox US program? :P
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<xShadowx>
how about a - send man beyond earth orbit program :|
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<SpecimenSpiff>
o/
<NathanKell>
ferram4: Uh....no? :P
<ferram4>
WHY NOT
<NathanKell>
ferram4: Although them kero Aerojets are tempting
<NathanKell>
what you got against hydrolox?
<ferram4>
NathanKell, I don't like hydrogen. It's expensive and not-dense and boils off fast and it gets everywhere.
<NathanKell>
Ah.
<NathanKell>
Orbit is the highest ground, it’s true.
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<Pap>
Sorry, stepped away. Are you good leudaimon?
<ferram4>
Come on, what other kind of response did you expect?
<leudaimon>
I guess so
<leudaimon>
starting up
<leudaimon>
(this thing takes ages)
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
Pap: blowfish suggests, I think with reason, to eliminate flying-low Earth science just as we’ve eliminated landed/splashed
<NathanKell|Twitch>
thoughts?
<Bornholio>
no reason to fly planes
<leudaimon>
In a realism perspective I tend to agree... and it's not like we lack science at game start
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Bornholio: Planes, like other things involving crew, are mostly for money and rep
<Pap>
Hmmm, makes things hard for first launch only really
<Bornholio>
money from planes? sad case if grinding that
<NathanKell|Twitch>
first launch should clear 50 easily, no?
<awang>
Were WWII-era fighters supposed to be statically stable?
<soundnfury>
awang: yeah, just not very
<soundnfury>
remember that they had to be flown in battle by people with about ten flying-hours on them
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<awang>
10 hours of training?
<awang>
Ouch
<Pap>
NathanKell|Twitch: yes, it should. I usually launch it without a tiny Tim just to get to the next contract.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
awang: Literally *everything* is designed to be statically stable. Except fighters with flybywire controls (F-16 was, AFAIK, the first--see ‘relaxed static stability’)
<Rokker>
WHY U PING
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<awang>
NathanKell|Twitch: Makes sense, I guess
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<Rokker>
NathanKell|Twitch: the first fly by wire aircraft was the lunar landing research vehicle
<awang>
Atmosphere Autopilot is spoiling me
<Rokker>
NathanKell|Twitch: F-16 was the first production fly by wire combat aircraft
<github>
[RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v5eDt
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 7361474 Pap: Re-did All The Science...
<xShadowx>
Pap: famous last words ;p
<Pap>
I am aware :(
<NathanKell>
Pap: WOOO!
<NathanKell>
Pap: Including crew stuff?
<Pap>
God no NathanKell that was my plan to include tonight, but will have to wait until tomorrow
<NathanKell>
ohhh I see
<Pap>
:(
<NathanKell>
Anything I can do with that so I can do the suborbs tonight?
* xShadowx
gives Pap a cookie
<lamont>
Tanegashima is only at 30.37N, i tend to visualize Japan as being at a higher latitude
<Pap>
NathanKell: SubOrbs you will be fine. There won't really be anything added to that (except maybe limiting Crew Reports) all of the crew experiments will require Orbit
<NathanKell>
Ahhh I see
<Pap>
NathanKell: They didn't have much time to accomplish things other than go up and come down :)
<NathanKell>
Hehe true!
<Pap>
Off to bed for me! See you all tomorrow
<Pap>
o/
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<NathanKell>
Night Pap!
<SpecimenSpiff>
wow, that jaxa rocket sure has some starting twr
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
!tell Pap* I think Crewed Karman pays *way* too much. Sound barrier too perhaps.
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<NathanKell>
!tell Pap* adjusted.
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v5e9c
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 7178747 NathanKell: Adjust down the early milestones
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v5e9R
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 70616d9 NathanKell: Dashes for X-Planes (fix your saves if you have current training)
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v5e9g
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 4440d06 NathanKell: Missed these. These parts are *not* X-15 parts, they're Mk1 Spaceplane, 2.22m, parts (equivalent to Dynasoar or so). @pap1723 these don't have X-15 ECMs do they?
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<a_schack>
Sometimes I get the feeling Agathorn has joined forces with Murphy :|
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<Pap>
o/
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [19.08.2017 07:05:31]: "I think Crewed Karman pays *way* too much. Sound barrier too perhaps."
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [19.08.2017 07:21:52]: "adjusted."
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
\o
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: are you planning on playing at all today?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hey Pap, maybe after 9pm (it's almost 3pm now) .. checking out a place in Amsterdam later
<Pap>
Good! I have some things to fix but it will take a few hours before I can do it
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ok :)
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
btw Pap ... I use the Medium Landing Gear for all my planes, because I can tweakscale it. but I have yet to see any of the Advanced Landing Gear from Kerbal Foundries.. is there a reason why none of them are available right away ? :)
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<borntosleep>
!tell NathanKell|Away Isn't First Karman Line supposed to pay out the Astronaut Center or entry costs for mercury capsules? Sure its a large payout but we are also doing these missions unreasonablly early with x-1 capsules
<Qboid>
borntosleep: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: I have not been able to configure them for the tech tree yet
<Pap>
Do we have RO configs for them, or are they listed as nonRO?
<a_schack>
Uuuuh Pap. I think it might be a good idea to add a disclaimer to contracts, which can be invalidated by other contracts - case in point, I completed 2nd gen weather sat, which instantly failed my Early Weather Sat contract and cost me 40k
<a_schack>
I had a hunch I wouldn't be able to do the early weather sat contract after I completed 2nd gen, but no idea it'd instantly fail it and cost me
<Bornholio_>
A red Giant Ready to go SuperNova. Start burning silicon!
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<Bornholio>
On a altenate note, my ISP needs a kick to the #%$#%
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<Pap>
Yeah, you kept dropping in and out yesterday
<Theysen_>
they usually require one once every month
<Pap>
Just as bad in Europe Theysen_ ?
<Theysen_>
although I better not complain in germany since I informed myself on ISPs in US
<Bornholio>
all things said i'm happy not to have Germany's big brother ISPs
<Theysen_>
Your from US and say something about Big Brother ISP? :D :D
<Theysen_>
*youre
<Theysen_>
Dude we are all getting recorded and mass storaged
<Theysen_>
country doesn't matter
<Bornholio>
I can download TB of stuff on bittorrent and not get shut down
<Theysen_>
Why shouldn't I ß
<Pap>
That is correct Theysen_ and most of us opt in for it
<Bornholio>
As our true government type shifts more solidly to Corporate Fuedalism we should be happy to serve our masters with our data
<Theysen_>
haha
<Bornholio>
can't sense any bitterness can you?
<Theysen_>
All I know is that one good friend of mine got his ass kicked by Sony one time when he torrented music .. feelsbadman
<Pap>
Yay America! (we are all screwed)
<Theysen_>
are there any basic guidelines on what and when to upgrade in new RP-0? LP, AC and MC and TS
<Theysen_>
I don't feel safe by judging it purely on: oh yeah I have good funds let's upgrade
<Pap>
Theysen_: I don't know, but I always upgrade launch pad first, but according to NK, I am better off purchasing one first
<Bornholio>
I do the MC and TC with first orbital money, and AC with first Karman line
<Theysen_>
Pap, that would require me to plan missions parallel to other ones already in early game. XD
<Theysen_>
Bornholio, gotcha that was my approach so far as well
<Pap>
How much would you two guess the Hasselblad Camera used on the Apollo missions weighed? I cannot find anything about the weight online, other than they removed the leather casing to make it lighter
<Bornholio>
For pads i Add the first one and upgrade the initial as i did the first SO return cash
<soundnfury>
Hmm, why am I being offered training courses in "Proficiency: SXTMerlin46Prop"? NathanKell|AWAY?
<soundnfury>
ah, but I'm _not_ offered that in spacecentre (just the SXTBuzzard courses, which make sense). Only in the SPH.
<soundnfury>
and SXTBuzzard course takes 0 time, probably because pilots are assumed already to know how to fly a prop plane.
<soundnfury>
(ok, actually about 2 hours. Which the GUI can't really display, it only does days)
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<awang>
Hmmm
<awang>
I'm getting IndexOutOfRange spam from RP0.MaintanceHandler
<awang>
And NRE from KCT_Utilities.ProgressBuildTime
<soundnfury>
Pap: 9.8 science from first sounding rocket (which just cleared 50km).
<Pap>
Thermometer, Telemetry and Barometer?
<soundnfury>
yup
<soundnfury>
and three Flying Low biomes (poles, shores and water)
<Pap>
awang: not updated KCT plugin maybe?
<Pap>
I think those are the only experiments that allow for Flying Low science now
<awang>
Pap: Nope, just updated before starting up
<awang>
Unless the Dropbox link is out of date
<Pap>
No clue :(
<Bornholio>
awang when are errors occuring
<awang>
Bornholio: Literally every scene
<Pap>
Hmmm, anyone else with errors?
<Bornholio>
i'll bounce around after leaving vab in a couple
<Bornholio>
yeah lots of IOORE in space center
<Pap>
Ah, damn, that is an NK fix, can someone give him a tell?
<Bornholio>
awang can you post an issue with your log on git
<awang>
Uh
<awang>
idk how helpful it'll be
<awang>
Since I have a bajillion and one mods installed
<awang>
And the log is 42 MB
<awang>
I'll post one once KSP crashes
<awang>
So it'll just be loading then exiting
<Pap>
OK, I'll do it when I load next
<awang>
Bornholio: See any NREs too?
<Bornholio>
yes
<awang>
Uhhh
<awang>
Crew Report while flying over Earth's Shores
<awang>
"Ahh, Roger. Lift-Off and the clock is started.\n\n-Alan Shepard Mercury-Redstone 3"
<awang>
Pap: ^?
<Pap>
Damn, did it not put the line breaks?
<awang>
Apparently not?
<awang>
Unless it's just something with my install
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<Pap>
Nope, it probably doesn't work in that context
<awang>
Have to insert actual newline characters, then?
<xShadowx>
unless text is auto wrap and ignores chars
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<Bornholio>
i was going to point that out last night darn it, looking at commits last night
<xShadowx>
Pap: try just spaces spam to force new line, a bit ghetto but if no other answer :)
<xShadowx>
not sure if diff resolutions will effect it
<Pap>
I'll just leave it all on the same line and use quotation marks for the quotes. It'll look fine I think.
<Bornholio>
lol g limiting crew in a prop plane
<Bornholio>
gettings some [magicore] related "tried to parse..." on entry to space center
<awang>
Uh
<awang>
Are the fins for the Aerobee from the Taerobee mod the right size?
<awang>
They don't seem to be stabilizing my sustainer stage all that well
<Bornholio>
you need a small mount of spin or some control surfaces or if its a bumper RCS
<awang>
They're angled for spin
<awang>
The spin just gets more and more out of control
<awang>
Does that mean not enough spin?
<Bornholio>
launching from a tiny tim, bumper or alone
<soundnfury>
awang: that sounds like too much spin
<awang>
tiny tim
<soundnfury>
that's the usual problem with spin stabbed bees
<Bornholio>
are you spinning by the time they sperate?
<awang>
soundnfury: The spin axis gets further and further from the velocity vector?
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<awang>
Bornholio: Slightly. I didn't tilt the fins on the booster
<awang>
But tilted the fins on the sustainer
<Bornholio>
you want 0.5-3 revs per second, but not much more. personally never spin stabilize any more, go straight to bumpers
<awang>
Bumpers?
<Bornholio>
bee on a v-2
<awang>
Oh wow, that's a lot slower than I expected
<Theysen_>
the taerobee fins seem to induce strange behaviour
<Theysen_>
=go with proc wings
<awang>
Hm
<Bornholio>
or the evil tweakscaled canards
<awang>
Bornholio: As in an aerobee instead of an a-4 engine?
<awang>
Or whatever engine the V-2 is supposed to use
<awang>
I'm not in the VAB right now, so don't remember
<awang>
And I thought TweakScale was not supported any more?
<awang>
Guess it's proc wings for spin stabilization then
<awang>
Theysen_: Would proc wings that are about the same size work fine? Or do they need to be larger?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
awang: I normally use the silver-white stock fins?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
they can be tweakscaled
<awang>
But I thought TweakScale broke a ton of other things?
<Bornholio>
tanks going negative mass is the main problem
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I only ever use TweakScale for structural parts
<Bornholio>
structural is the main use
<awang>
Ah
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
doesn't look like I ever had problems because of TS.
<awang>
Didn't know that it qorked for some things
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
though I stopped using structural girders entirely, after those Kraken-waking issues
<Bornholio>
that was the solar that caused it though
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
huh? why did they work fine when attached to the Proc tank, then?
<Bornholio>
yes the structural normal map is too low, but without that janky way solar exerts forces on surfaces it wouldn't have been a problem
<awang>
Solar?
<Bornholio>
extendable solar arrays can cause phantom forces if they clip into a part
<awang>
Ah
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
awang: I had an interplanetary probe that would do the kraken dance, and Bornholio determined that it was the combination of solar panels attached to the structural girder
<lamont>
degrees vs. radians #FML
<awang>
TweakScale'd girder?
<Bornholio>
normal girder
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
awang: no, 100%
<awang>
Hm
<Bornholio>
the normal map for them is below the texture surface for some reason
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<Bornholio>
so if you attach a surface part they clip
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<Bornholio>
lamont never quite sure how spreadsheet programers thought that trig functions should default to radians
<awang>
Uh
<awang>
I'm getting +0 for a KCT upgrade
<awang>
Is that expected?
<Bornholio>
+0 ?
<awang>
+0 to build rate
<Bornholio>
nope should be something other than +0 :/
<soundnfury>
awang: it's not really 0, just < 0.01
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
and wondered whether it jumped from months to years, or something with the time-scale
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
also, how do you get multiple VAB/SPH?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
as soon as I upgrade the first VAB, the second one disappears
<awang>
Hypergolic_Skunk: I had that happen too, once
<awang>
Restarted the save, and it started working fine
<awang>
:/
<Bornholio>
did you try build both at the same time?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
how...would that even be possible? :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it's at the start of every career
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
there are two VABs offered in that window. as soon as I use one upgrade-point, number two disappears
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
has been like that since 1.0.5
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so I thought it was normal
<Theysen_>
doesn't in 1.2.2 dev anymore for me but the second one disappears to upgrade button
<Bornholio>
are you talking about a second build rate in a VAB?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yep!
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<NathanKell>
o/
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<NathanKell|AWAY>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell|AWAY: borntosleep left a message for you in #RO [19.08.2017 13:50:40]: " Isn't First Karman Line supposed to pay out the Astronaut Center or entry costs for mercury capsules? Sure its a large payout but we are also doing these missions unreasonablly early with x-1 capsules"
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
lol
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hey NK
<NathanKell>
Bornholio: No, that’s what Crewed Orbital is for.
<NathanKell>
Had anyone wanted to, they could have done what I had done (see the British plans for a manned V-2, the Russian VR-190, etc)
<Bornholio>
for both capsules and AC?
<NathanKell>
Yes, it should pay for all of that IIRC
<NathanKell>
Although...
<NathanKell>
the Level 1 AC is about right for Mercury/Vostok, you don’t need Level 2 until Gemini era
<Bornholio>
well without that 300k its long long grind to orbital first or do it without manuever nodes
<NathanKell>
? MC and TS can be upgraded from lunar missions
<NathanKell>
giving maneuver nodes
<Bornholio>
don't have lunar missions till after first orbital
<NathanKell>
yes
<NathanKell>
we were talking about crewed orbital I thought
<Bornholio>
its all staged, and you are talking about neutering crewed karman
<NathanKell>
First Orbital (uncrewed) should give enough for pad upgrades + part unlocks. Lunars give enough for MC + TS. Crewed Orbital gives enough for crewed part unlocks and maybe even AC.
<Bornholio>
so your assumption is no node for orbitals
<NathanKell>
?
<Theysen_>
nodes for LEO ops??
<NathanKell>
also soundnfury if you’re playing hard I’d suggest more like 240% funds, certainly not 300+
<NathanKell>
Bornholio: Ah. Yes, absolutely.
<NathanKell>
No nodes
<NathanKell>
Nodes are for orbital maneuvers, not *getting* to orbit, no?
<Theysen_>
thought so
<Theysen_>
so first lunar flyby has this "aim and shoot" character right?
<Theysen_>
solids or unguided kicker
<NathanKell>
Lunar is what you need nodes for
<NathanKell>
Well, you don’t *need* them per se. But they’re good :]
<Theysen_>
Ah yoz mean unlock the TS and MC with the advances?
<NathanKell>
Yeah
<Theysen_>
gotcha
<NathanKell>
that’s why the payouts are so high
<NathanKell>
advances and payouts
<NathanKell>
Pap et al: what’s this I hear about exceptions?
<a_schack>
What are you aiming to balance around for "normal"? Suborbital in X1 cockpit and orbital in Mercury/Vostok?
<a_schack>
Or suborbital in a proper pod too?
<Pap>
NathanKell: They are non-stop Exception: IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range
<NathanKell>
stack?
<Bornholio>
using x-1 for suborbital is pretty much tossed out by sane heads in the real world
<Bornholio>
but there were plans
<NathanKell>
I mean, they were thinking of the capsule from Highball
<a_schack>
Yeah, I agree - but it seems to still be technically possible, even with the changes
<NathanKell>
err, Man High
<NathanKell>
It really doesn’t take much to survive a straight hop up and down to 100
<a_schack>
I wouldn't know about that, I just wonder if the balance is that people should do it or not do it
<Pap>
[EXC 14:46:20.241] IndexOutOfRangeException: Array index is out of range.
<Pap>
RP0.MaintenanceHandler.updateUpkeep ()
<Pap>
RP0.MaintenanceHandler.Update ()
<NathanKell>
Ok. Repro steps? Because I wasn’t getting it
<Rokker>
NathanKell: >confusing man high and highball
<Rokker>
10/10
<Pap>
NathanKell: I was simply sitting in the VAB trying to work out my Crew Experiments probem and it was running non-stop
<NathanKell>
Right. But what level facilities, and what KCT points?
<NathanKell>
And had you switched launch sites?
<Bornholio>
when i go to space center i have a continueous stream of Indexoutofrangeexception
<Theysen_>
here too, sandbox
<Bornholio>
nothing yet upgraded
<Theysen_>
switching to career
<NathanKell>
Bornholio, pap, career?
<Pap>
I was in sandbox
<Theysen_>
no spam
<Theysen_>
in career
<Bornholio>
yes career
<NathanKell>
So it’s a sandbox issue.
<NathanKell>
That’s easy enough to fix
<NathanKell>
also soundnfury: LINQ!? Get thee away from me!
<Theysen_>
RP-0 UI is disabled in sandbox right? Might be connected
<Theysen_>
I like how you can just do some sounders to be on the safe side when you don't know whether to spend money on irresponsable tooling or not :D
<Pap>
:)
<Theysen_>
Rokker, 10/10 logic, how was I so blind all this time
<Pap>
Rokker: That is also the same reason that when you are drunk, you think it is a good idea to call your ex. It is the remaining pieces of gravity.
<Rokker>
someone let egg know that he has to factor this into princip0ia calcs
<SpecimenSpiff>
NathanKell, I had never heard of "man high" and of course google fails me completely. have a link?
<Qboid>
[#922] title: Thrust computation in stage stats is wrong for engines with non-ISP fuel (HTP) | got an RD-108_8D75 here which should have 311 Vac ISP and 936.2 kN thrust, and it has 311.0001 Vac ISP correctly, but has 962 kN thrust reported in stage stats. | https://github.com/MuMech/MechJeb2/issues/922
<awang>
Pap: RealScience pls
<awang>
:P
<NathanKell>
lamont: Uh oh
<NathanKell>
lamont: Looks like the Isp is being kept and not recalculated now?
<lamont>
the isp is fine
<NathanKell>
I thought MJ computed it from flow rates?
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 9c658fc NathanKell: 1. LINQ POLICE. 2. Make maintenance tweakable in cfg. 3. Fix IOORE in KCT pad detection (a building pad has <0 level). 4. Slight optimization in maintenance. 5. add tags for SM and Balloon in the KCT config.
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v5vRm
<NathanKell>
No, the Isp is wrong.
<lamont>
isp matches what TF says it should be
<NathanKell>
The whole point is, taking all resources into account, the engine does *not* have 311s.
<NathanKell>
It has more like 308s or something
<NathanKell>
(technically it has flow_LOX_kero / (flow_LOX_kero + flow_HTP) Isp)
<lamont>
oh yeah, its busted againt then
<NathanKell>
yep
<blowfish>
the problem is that the HTP propellant has ignoreForIsp=true which makes MechJeb think it's a "free" resource (like air on jets)
<NathanKell>
blowfish: Right. But I fixed that.
<NathanKell>
The fix must have gotten unfixed.
<blowfish>
hmm
<blowfish>
I wonder if a less hacky solution would be to remove ignoreForIsp=true and change the way RF displays Isp
<soundnfury>
why not just put the proper Isp in the cfg and not use ignoreForIsp? /me doesn't understand
<NathanKell>
Because that data isn’t given as such
<NathanKell>
we have the lox/kero Isp, and *if we’re lucky* we have an HTP flow rate
<NathanKell>
but sources differ on both
<lamont>
doesn’t look like MJ changed
<NathanKell>
lamont: Weird.
<NathanKell>
wait, how does it compute thrust then?
<lamont>
maybe someone modified RF trying to fix it there?
<NathanKell>
nope
<NathanKell>
RF doesn’t touch that
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<lamont>
dunno, maybe the fix never quite fixed it
<NathanKell>
could be
<NathanKell>
hmm
<NathanKell>
where does MJ calc thrust?
<NathanKell>
or does it just take maxThrust at face value?
<NathanKell>
(but if thrust is changing, it must calc it)
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: I'm just saying, whatever numbers we're currently using and feeding to KSP, we could just do (for ourselves) the calculations KSP would do
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: *that* I agree with
<NathanKell>
that’s what we did before ignoreForIsp
<lamont>
hmmm, so i think what you fixed was the actual fuel flow simulation which is used to compute dV, but the thrust and isp numbers returned in the stage stats are computed by this branch of code separately?
<NathanKell>
lamont: Yep
<NathanKell>
that method needs to be fixed somehow
<NathanKell>
lamont: Wait...
<NathanKell>
lamont: Ah.
<NathanKell>
Yep, just cache the *original* min and max flow
<NathanKell>
and use them in that method, instead of the modified ones my code calculates.
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v5v0B
<github>
RP-0/Developmental b35c74d NathanKell: Actually hook up the settings.
<awang>
What's with the disjointed attachment node on the Ven's LVT15?
<NathanKell>
Ok. All, please get the latest RP-0 and regrab the KCT dll from the dropbox folder.
<Pap>
SpecimenSpiff: I will tell angel-125 about that. That is part of the hard code
<Pap>
\o/ all bow down to NathanKell.... We're not worthy, we're not worthy ;)
<NathanKell>
:P
<NathanKell>
Note that per the commit logs, maintenance costs are tweakable now
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<Pap>
awang: that is why the X-1 I didn't get built. Too expensive
<awang>
Pap: >:(
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
god i will miss this
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk you aren't dying, just getting a job. :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:P
<awang>
Pap: Same thing
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
that 'multiplayer' thing that you guys played where your progress was uploaded to some kind of shared database.. is that still a thing?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
and will it ever be a thing-thing? :)
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v5v0h
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 34529f6 NathanKell: Support an exponent for facility costs
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
maybe even a thingy?
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<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: I think it will make a comeback after the new release
<NathanKell>
Once we’re no longer restarting, I’m sure a RIS game will start up
<NathanKell>
Ninjapap!
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
cool :)
<NathanKell>
Speaking of: anything else about to be committed or do I restart? :)
<Pap>
NathanKell: The new crewed science stuff will be ready soon, but it shouldn't affect you in your first playthrough
<NathanKell>
ok!
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<Rokker>
NathanKell|Twitch: send help
<soundnfury>
is it supposed to be possible to roll out to a pad that's being upgraded?
<Rokker>
NathanKell|Twitch: dayton is being invaded by Canadians
<soundnfury>
'cos I feel like it shouldn't
<awang>
AGATHORNNNNN
<Bornholio>
i can train my pilots for all kinds of parts? basicly everything i purchased, this has streched out my RP-0 UI window well off of the screen
<awang>
Where's the training UI again?
<Rokker>
Bornholio: send the BUFFs, we need to cleanse the area
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: you in the VAB?
<Bornholio>
you are telling that to someone that was born in canada
<soundnfury>
I found that it was fine in the spacecentre
<Bornholio>
no in space center soundnfury
<soundnfury>
huh
<Rokker>
Bornholio: ew
<Rokker>
Bornholio: actually, it's always inspiring when someone overcomes a disability and becomes successful. good for you
<Rokker>
:P
<Bornholio>
yeah i'm sorry
<Bornholio>
you're trying to insult me eh.
<awang>
Hmmm
<awang>
Still getting IOOREs
<awang>
RP0.MaintenanceHandler.updateUpkeep()
<awang>
RP0.MaintenanceHandler.Update()
<awang>
Not sure how to reproduce, though :(
<Bornholio>
did you udate the .dll
<awang>
Yep
<awang>
Pulled RP-0, updated KCT
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<awang>
What's the proper way to land a plane with two wheels in front and one in the back?
<awang>
Like WWII-era fighters
<awang>
Front wheels touch down first?
<soundnfury>
awang: taildraggers you mean?
<Bornholio>
yes, or you wheelbarrow
<awang>
soundnfury: Sure? Haven't heard that term before
<soundnfury>
the "perfect" landing is a three-pointer
<awang>
Bornholio: I don't like the sound of "wheelbarrow"...
<soundnfury>
but in a crosswind you can't so you touch down on mainwheels first
<awang>
I see
<awang>
Good thing RO doesn't have crosswinds
<awang>
(yet)
<soundnfury>
:D
<soundnfury>
I'm sure some clever fellow somewhere is working on it...
<soundnfury>
along with Upper Level Winds and Wayward Boats
<awang>
Wayward boats?
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<Bornholio>
launches get shut down when boats go in offlimits areas
<Bornholio>
since maybe the rocket will crash into them (i wish)
<awang>
Oh
<awang>
I thought the Coast Guard would have had that under control
<Bornholio>
the do, but people can be stupid at times
<Bornholio>
they
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<Rokker>
NathanKell|Twitch: send the national guard, an army of stratochiefs is invading the American territories of ohio
<NathanKell|Twitch>
I’ll tell them to bring flowers and chocolates.
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<awang>
Wait, when was the last time a boat caused a launch scrub?
NathanKell|Twitch is now known as NathanKell
<Bornholio>
in june a sounding rocket
<NathanKell>
awang: I remember it causing a Falcon 9 scrub last year
<NathanKell>
dunno if there was one since
<Bornholio>
at wallops
<awang>
Woah, that recently?
<awang>
Wow
<Bornholio>
a Terrier/Malemute got scrubbed because dorknobs founf it funny
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: is it supposed to be possible to roll out to a pad that's being upgraded?
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v5vVM
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 256cbaa NathanKell: Tweak Karman Crewed rewards from 1000 to 10001 to fix weird parse issue.
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: Tragically yes.
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: I can look into disabling that in KCT
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|AFK
<Bornholio>
obviously you should build a new pad every time ./sarcasm off
<Rokker>
awang: wallops constantly has boat range issues
<Rokker>
like I'd say a 6th of the launches I watch for wallops have boat range issues
NathanKell|AFK is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: After thinking about it...do we want to do that?