<soundnfury>
Rokker: so he won't have to look at that bloody flag any more?
<SRBuchanan>
It is a pretty ugly flag.
<SRBuchanan>
Like a womb's-eye view of a cheap t-shirt pattern.
<soundnfury>
it's a vexillological vexation!
<soundnfury>
an embroidered embarrassment
<Rokker>
...
<SRBuchanan>
A fluttering failure!
<Rokker>
i hope both of you rot
<Rokker>
the american flag is the best flag
<Rokker>
fuck you
<soundnfury>
Rokker: the guam flag is the worst flag
<SRBuchanan>
The AMERICAN flag is amazing.
<Rokker>
oh
<Rokker>
ohhhhh
<SRBuchanan>
The GUAM flag sucks.
<SRBuchanan>
Hell, I *am* American.
<Rokker>
is that the one with the sandy vagina?
<SRBuchanan>
Just not... Guamish?
<SRBuchanan>
Yup.
<SRBuchanan>
That's the one.
<xShadowx>
soviet flag best flag
<Bornholio>
it represents guam perfectly
<SRBuchanan>
Better dead than red!
<SRBuchanan>
That said, the Soviet flag is kind of cool.
* xShadowx
is surprised Rokker has not yet killed him
<SRBuchanan>
The Soviets made a bunch of stuff that looked cool, actually. That olive-green paint scheme with the big red stars just looks really good somehow. It's a shame it's wasted on a bunch of filthy communists.
<soundnfury>
the best flag ever is the old Union Flag, without the saltire of St Patrick (just the George and Andrew)
<SRBuchanan>
Nah, count that St. Andrew's Cross out too.
<soundnfury>
SRBuchanan: I agree about the Soviets. It's also a shame that that _kickass_ national anthem is red
<SRBuchanan>
Consider that England bungled things to the point that there's more Scots, particularly highlanders, in America now than there are left in Scotland.
<SRBuchanan>
So the verdict is, the Soviets would have been seriously cool if only they were not communists.
<soundnfury>
SRBuchanan: who cares about the highland scots? celtic buggers, send 'em back to Ireland. Scots for the Scots throne, Burns for the Burns god.
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<soundnfury>
(or something)
<SRBuchanan>
Just what even is a *true* Scot though?
<soundnfury>
xD
<SRBuchanan>
Because as I recall the entire northern half of the Island is a heady mix of celt, pict, and norse.
<soundnfury>
Scot (n). An Englishman who can do engineering.
<SRBuchanan>
Ha!
<Rokker>
xShadowx: eh
<Rokker>
xShadowx: the soviet flag isnt bad
<Rokker>
not as good as the nazi flag
<soundnfury>
Hmm, the norse influence is more yorkshire, northumbria, etc
<soundnfury>
Rokker: kriegsmarine flag stronk
<Rokker>
or especially the kriegsmarine/luftwaffe flag
<Rokker>
but you do you
<Rokker>
soundnfury: ey
<SRBuchanan>
The Nazis always were good at appearances.
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: >were
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: that alt right haircut is pretty dope
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: i think its widely accepted that antifa's ideology lies somewhere around communist to anarchocommunist
<Kraken>
yeah
<soundnfury>
SRBuchanan: Fascism and Communism are both socialist totalitarianisms. They fight each other because they're so close, like brothers.
<Kraken>
it's 80% anarkiddies
<Kraken>
>fascism >socialist
<SRBuchanan>
Anarkiddies: The second people up against the wall when the revolution comes.
<SRBuchanan>
Hoist by their own petards.
<Kraken>
i was an anarkiddie for a while
<soundnfury>
Kraken: well, OK, *spanish* (francoite) fascism was a genuinely reactionary and conservative totalitarianism
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah, facism got started primarily as a reaction to communism.
<soundnfury>
(it was also the one that was most peacefully dismantled)
<Rokker>
Kraken: a while
<Kraken>
falange started out as national syndicalism
<SpecimenSpiff>
can we not clutter this channel up with this shit please? trying to keep track of actual ksp stuffs
<Kraken>
good point
<Rokker>
EVERYONE MOVE THE POLITICS TO #MARS
<Rokker>
WOOOO
<Bornholio>
sorry thats rokkers fault :P
<soundnfury>
SpecimenSpiff: this is an IRC channel, on-topic discussions are against the spirit of the game
<SRBuchanan>
Ah, it's like the old joke: What do you call a <insert member of disliked minority> on Mars? A problem. What do you call two <insert members of disliked minority> on Mars? A bigger problem. What do you call EVERY <insert members of disliked minority> on Mars? Problem solved!
<SpecimenSpiff>
NathanKell|Twitch, yep I'm getting a nullref when I try and launch
<NathanKell|Twitch>
ok
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
hoping I’ve fixed it
<SRBuchanan>
Hmm... my current installation has no less than 65 redundant engines, mostly because of just how many mods I installed. Time to do some culling.
<Probus__>
Is there a list of mods that are compatible with RO or RP0?
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7HaK
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 1b293ff NathanKell: Fix mission training times. Hopefully fix NRE in CheckCrewForPart
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah, just look in the Realism overhaul folder in your gamedata. It will have a couple of folders for suggested, recommended, and required mods.
<Probus__>
OK. Thanks!
<SRBuchanan>
There are also a few mods out there that are not listed but still work, mostly just by being so simple that they work regardless.
<SRBuchanan>
Decal mods, for example.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
fingers crossed this works...
<stratochief>
Rokker: T-34 tank is best tank.
<Qboid>
stratochief: xShadowx left a message for you in Private [12.08.2017 21:49:30]: "aluminum"
<NathanKell|Twitch>
FIXED
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<Rokker>
stratochief: even if it WERE
<Rokker>
it would only be because they made a fucking million variants
<awang>
Uhhh
<SRBuchanan>
It was better than the Sherman, but that sure ain't saying much.
<awang>
I have a RealScience question
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah?
<awang>
So I got it compiling for 1.2.2
<awang>
And it's spitting out stuff in the debug console
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: how fucking dare you
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: you are no american
<Rokker>
get out
<SRBuchanan>
Now, the Abrams is a good tank.
<awang>
At what point should I consider it "ready" for 1.2.2 dev?
<awang>
As opposed to "I'm still trying to get this to work"?
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<Bornholio>
it doesn't spam nre, it must be good to go
<awang>
lol
<SRBuchanan>
But the Sherman was a death trap and the only way we crushed German tanks was through a mix of numerical advantage, better parts availability, and more parts commonality.
<Bornholio>
or it boots, hell yeah log it
<awang>
NathanKell|Twitch: KSP-RO adoption time?
<SRBuchanan>
But hey, still better than Japan's tanks I guess.
<Bornholio>
japan? Tanks?
<SRBuchanan>
Exactly.
<Kraken>
they tried
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: if we had built a better tank we wouldnt have had that numerical advantage because technically and production complexity
<Bornholio>
you must be halucinating
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: now the lee
<SRBuchanan>
True enough.
<Rokker>
the Lee was shit
<Kraken>
german engineering was the most overrated thing of the war
<Rokker>
Kraken: eh
<Rokker>
their aerospace engineering was great
<Rokker>
their tank engineering was meh
<SRBuchanan>
The Germans came up with a bunch of great designs, but the fact that they pushed the envelope of what was possible at the time limited the reliability of the finished products. They were also poor about leaving a single version of anything in production long enough to ensure a solid supply chain.
<Kraken>
HO 229 WAS A STEALTH BOMBER
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Kraken: It was the most over-(anything) thing of the war
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<Bornholio>
I was wondering does this mean RO is putting tanks in? who has a git link for RealTANKS repo
<SRBuchanan>
We already *have* tanks.
<Rokker>
Kraken: the Me 262 was a great plane
<Rokker>
a good first attempt at least
<Kraken>
when they had the materials to actually build it properly
<SRBuchanan>
Cryogenic... pressurized...
<SRBuchanan>
The ME-262 was cool.
<Rokker>
Kraken: when they started planning it they had the materials to build it
<Rokker>
and didnt plan to be losing
<SRBuchanan>
Always plan to lose.
<Kraken>
mistake on their part
<SRBuchanan>
Plan to win first, but then plan to lose.
<SRBuchanan>
I mean, a Nazi Insurgency would be like some comic-book-villian level of worst thing ever, so I guess I should be glad they didn't.
<Kraken>
wolfenstein tho
<SRBuchanan>
Not to any real extent anyways.
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: idk, insurgency is a pretty fun game
<Rokker>
id like to see a WW2 one
<Rokker>
actually thats just day of infamy
<SRBuchanan>
Insurgency is just Counterstrike without the Counterstrike players.
<Rokker>
isnt it
<SRBuchanan>
So yeah, great game.
<SRBuchanan>
Yup.
<SRBuchanan>
For WW2 games I prefer Red Orchestra.
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: how are you liking RS2
<Kraken>
if nazis won, they'd probably end up trying to damn gibraltar sooner or later and accidentally turn europe into a desert
<SRBuchanan>
'You are cannon fodder.'
<SRBuchanan>
Actually have not messed with it much yet.
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: i love it
<Rokker>
a bit buggy but fun
<Kraken>
i've been finding it pretty fun
<Rokker>
Kraken: yeah but fuck you
<Rokker>
so
<Kraken>
im still kinda bad with it
<Rokker>
Kraken: im not good but im not bad
<Kraken>
i hate the M16 in the game tho
<Kraken>
AK is much better
<Rokker>
Kraken: what
<Kraken>
at least for me
<SRBuchanan>
Well, that's true-to-life.
<Rokker>
are you legitemately retarded
<xShadowx>
dam gibraltar would prolly make a ton of power
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: what
<Rokker>
are you legitemately retarded
<SRBuchanan>
Early M16 was trash.
<Kraken>
it really was
<Rokker>
nah
<Rokker>
fuck you
<SRBuchanan>
Even the mature M16 is still pretty underwhelming.
<Kraken>
my KD with the AK is a lot higher than with the M16
<Rokker>
Kraken: the M16 is absolutely better in RS2
<SRBuchanan>
5.56 is like 5.45 with more kick for not much more effect.
<Rokker>
Kraken: then stop using it like a retard
<Kraken>
how do i use it then
<SRBuchanan>
Both are garbage rounds only good for carbines.
<SRBuchanan>
Now, they are good for carbines.
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: we arent talking about AK74s
<SRBuchanan>
But not for actual, say, rifles.
<Kraken>
AKMs
<SRBuchanan>
I am aware.
<Rokker>
we are talking about 7.62 AK47s
<SRBuchanan>
I'm just saying that the 5.56 has similar terminal performance to the 5.45.
<Kraken>
hurr durr technically it's not a AK47
<SRBuchanan>
The 7.62 has better performance than either.
<Rokker>
Kraken: the recoil is way fucking worse than AKs in the game
<SRBuchanan>
Actually the AKM can be viewed as a subtype of AK-47.
Pap|Mobile is now known as Pap
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: full power rifle cartridges are unnecessary
<Pap>
o/
<Rokker>
so go shush
<SRBuchanan>
The AKM doesn't fire a full-powered round though.
<SRBuchanan>
7.62 x 39mm is a short rifle cartridge.
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: well the AKM is what the dipshits in RS2 use
<wb99999999>
It's still a big bullet
<Rokker>
so
<Kraken>
i think the AK in RS2 is the Type 56
<SRBuchanan>
The AKM is the name on any 'modern' AK-47, 'modern' meaning cold-war era.
<SRBuchanan>
Type 56 is the Chinese-made AKM, yes.
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: id say that the 7.62 X 39 is pushing the intermediate category a fuckin bit
<Kraken>
true AK47s are the very early models without the milled reciever, iirc
<SRBuchanan>
Oh it's definitely not an intermediate round.
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<SRBuchanan>
It's just a short rifle round.
<SRBuchanan>
For a high-powered intermediate round you're looking at stuff like 6.5 Grendel.
<Rokker>
also can we talk about how the russians really fucking liked the number 7.62 apparently
<SRBuchanan>
They aren't the only ones.
<wb99999999>
trivia: when introduced, type 56 was categorized as a "machine gun" (as in sub machine gun) in the PLA
<SRBuchanan>
7.62 is just the metric way of saying .30 caliber.
<Kraken>
wait no AKMs had a stamped receiver
<Kraken>
AK47 was the one with the milled receiver
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: dont explain guns to me please
<SRBuchanan>
I can and I will dammit!
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: im just saying that for a long time all 3 of the main rounds they used in their guns were all 7.62 mm in diameter
<SRBuchanan>
That's because standardization is great.
<Rokker>
my ass it is
<SRBuchanan>
Also if I recall the PPSH barrel was designed by just sawing a Mosin barrel in half.
<Kraken>
i dont think your ass is standardized
<SRBuchanan>
My ass sure isn't.
<SRBuchanan>
Way too beautiful for that.
<SRBuchanan>
Now if only my face could get with the program...
<Rokker>
it just doesnt seem worth it at all
<Kraken>
well im gonna go play some RS2
<SRBuchanan>
It is if you want to arm a massive horde of peasants. Make it all cheap and simple.
<Rokker>
Kraken: you stopthat right now
<SRBuchanan>
Wars are won by production capacity. The more you can standardize things the better. That was the logic behind the M1 Garand, the Sherman tank, the T-34, the Spitfire and P-51 Mustang...
<Pap>
The T-34 was the most simple, standardized thing ever
<Pap>
AK-47
<SRBuchanan>
Meanwhile the Germans tried to make a perfect device for every single little scenario they could think of and ended up with a terrible supply situation.
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: ...
<Kraken>
...
<Kraken>
i can do that too
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: the americans didnt standardize nearly as much as you seem to be thinking
<Rokker>
at least with planes
<SRBuchanan>
I would also point out the Russians have been operating variants of the R7 since the dawn of the space race.
<Kraken>
americans just had the production capacity to manage a million different models
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: and look where thats gotten them
<Rokker>
a shitty all steel rocket
<Rokker>
and proton
<Kraken>
i mean soviet metallurgy was better than ours for the vast majority of the cold war
<SRBuchanan>
And yet it still flies, and they're the only ones that can put a man in orbit reliably right now.
<Kraken>
modern russia simply doesnt have the capital to redesign their launch systems
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: i mean id argue that proton still flies
<Rokker>
sometimes it does
<Rokker>
but soyuz, sure
<SRBuchanan>
Don't get me wrong, they're ABOUT to get paved over, brutally, by the American private sector, but only after 60 *years* on that platform.
<Kraken>
rokkman play RS2 with me
<Rokker>
"paved over"
<Rokker>
Kraken: that was the plan you dumbass
<Pap>
America, Germany and the Soviet Union all had the production capacity to manage a ton of different models, but the biggest difference is that the American infrastructure was untouched during the war and no money or time was needed to repair and defend
<Kraken>
mic or no
<Rokker>
Kraken: what do you think i am, gay?
<Kraken>
my mic is terrible btw
<SRBuchanan>
What year is it?
<Rokker>
Kraken: :P
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<Rokker>
Kraken: well at least its not a webcam
<Rokker>
because i dont think i could survive that
<SRBuchanan>
You kids these days and you micro-telephones and weebcams.
<Kraken>
my mic is some shitty little thing inbuilt into my headphones
<Kraken>
>weebcam
<SRBuchanan>
I need to get a mic.
<Kraken>
no thank you
<SRBuchanan>
That'sTheJoke.jpg
<SRBuchanan>
I hear good-ish things about the ModMic. Anyone that can confirm or deny?
<SRBuchanan>
I need something that will attach to my JBL's.
<SRBuchanan>
Because I am NOT replacing these headphones any time soon.
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: i can confirm that you hear good things about the modmic
<Rokker>
idk if its actually good, but i do think you have heard it
<SRBuchanan>
Can you though? Can you really confirm what *I* hear? Maybe I was lying to you. Did you ever think of that?
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: no
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: ive heard its pretty good
<Rokker>
or at the very least it gets the job done
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<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7HVd
<github>
RP-0/Developmental fa55cbc NathanKell: Don't show irrelevant training missions.
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7HVx
<github>
RP-0/Developmental f5cc8c5 NathanKell: Refactor training string getter
<lamont>
NathanKell: do you still have that centepede 1 R-7 thingy anywhere?
<Bornholio>
is there need to update TACLS? saw new commits?
<NathanKell>
Pap: link sent
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7Hr3
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 4848786 NathanKell: Fix bug with conflicts not being checked
<Bornholio>
should i remove the mdb and pbd entries in my Real fuels plugins?
<egg>
NathanKell: speaking of RealFuels, Iskierka was complaining that it packaged Gamedata instead of GameData, which is an issue on linux
<egg>
s/Fuels/Plume/
<Qboid>
egg meant to say: NathanKell: speaking of RealPlume, Iskierka was complaining that it packaged Gamedata instead of GameData, which is an issue on linux
<egg>
that might be stock realplume though
<Iskierka>
I believe it was
<Iskierka>
if packaged by the same person I wouldn't be surprised at the same issue though
<Bornholio>
nathan is twitchy right now
<Bornholio>
oh nevermind i'm dumb
<awang>
lol case sensitivity
<Iskierka>
There was another mod to also do it but it was a contract pack that I think probably only works stock anyway
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<awang>
RP-0 had a case sensivity bug too
<awang>
Wonder if Microsoft isever going to switch
<wb99999999>
What is the functional difference between Agena and Delta upper stages in history?
<Iskierka>
it's based on the filesystem. If windows used ext* or another sensitive filesystem it'd be a problem on windows also
<awang>
So whenever NTFS dies, I guess
<awang>
If it ever will
<Iskierka>
FAT32's still going
<Iskierka>
probably even FAT16 in places
<awang>
True
<blowfish>
NathanKell: I think you're right about RF, but does this mean we need two more version for 1.2.2? Also you or taniwha made any progress on figuring out what the intended behavior is with respect to filling tanks?
<blowfish>
also version numbers are hard now
<blowfish>
no idea what version to call this release or how to ensure that people don't install the wrong version
<blowfish>
unless someone has made progress on adding a .version file to the build process
<blowfish>
(and my knowledge of shell scripting is not sufficient for that. If it were python or ruby then I'd feel more comfortable doing it.
<Iskierka>
add a line to the build script that calls a python script to increment the version?
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<blowfish>
it's more complicated than that
<NathanKell>
blowfish: Yes, taniwha and I did find the issue
<NathanKell>
His rewrite of tank copying wasn’t setting properties, and we rely on property setting for amounts
<NathanKell>
And yes that does mean 2 more releases, but I feel like we need to release one ‘naow’
<NathanKell>
Before the rewrite IMO.
<blowfish>
I don't necesessarily disagree, I just think that there a lot of things to think about first
<blowfish>
doing a messy release could end up causing more damage than the current bug
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7Hou
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 62a4140 NathanKell: Fix some tooling issues with returning early.
<NathanKell>
blowfish: The entrycost and cryo changes will be savebreaking
<NathanKell>
which is why I favor a minimal “just get it back to a working state” release
<blowfish>
no, I mean even a minimal release has a lot of risk at this point
<NathanKell>
It will need to be a dual release, with one for 1.2.2 and one for 1.3 anyway
<NathanKell>
Risk? Sure. But things are *literally unplayable* with this release. I don’t think we can leave things like that any longer.
<NathanKell>
Literally any part on load gets its resources mangled.
<blowfish>
people will install the wrong versions. How do we minimize that?
<NathanKell>
(on load to editor)
<taniwha>
blowfish: by giving up and going home
<taniwha>
(iow, you don't)
<NathanKell>
heya :)
<NathanKell>
Version file and making sure the 1.3 has a higher number
<taniwha>
hi :)
<blowfish>
also what are the correct version numbers at this point?
<taniwha>
blowfish: also, that's the reason I put the version number in every window
<NathanKell>
^ smrt
<blowfish>
if I add a static .version file now, can someone else commit to making it part of the build process later?
<NathanKell>
yes
<blowfish>
and by later I mean soon?
<taniwha>
blowfish: also, why version info is generated from git
<blowfish>
taniwha: you way overestimate the amount of time I have been working with this codebase
<taniwha>
(I had a lot of "wrong version" trouble with EL)
<taniwha>
NathanKell: explicitly = that library method? to explicitly avoid hitting the properties
<taniwha>
or do you mean a = b.a?
<taniwha>
(laziness)
<NathanKell>
Ok as figured :D
<NathanKell>
“convenience” it’s called
<blowfish>
does anyone have a sense of what the version numbers should be?
<NathanKell>
next minor in each case I’d say?
<taniwha>
blowfish: "git tag". pick next one :)
<blowfish>
12.2.2 was for KSP 1.2.2, 12.2.3 was for KSP 1.3
<NathanKell>
oh dang right
<NathanKell>
it was a minor bump for 1.3
<blowfish>
patch
<NathanKell>
I see more why the worry :]
<NathanKell>
patch, yeah
<blowfish>
like, maybe I could have done it differently but it still would have become confusing at some point
<NathanKell>
Oh, I’m not blaming in the slightest!
<NathanKell>
Or even saying you did anything wrong at all. These things happen
<NathanKell>
So yeah, we just have a .4 for 1.2.2 and a .5 for 1.3 I guess
<NathanKell>
or if we want to play it safe, 12.3.0 for 1.3
<NathanKell>
so it’s very visually different
<blowfish>
yeah, I guess that makes the most sense
<blowfish>
(.4 and .5 I mean)
<NathanKell>
then with the savebreaking changes, 13.0 and 13.1
<blowfish>
or not, I have no idea really
<NathanKell>
I’d say 12.3.0 for 1.3 this time
egg is now known as egg|zzz|egg
<NathanKell>
just in case :]
<NathanKell>
(it’ll probably help confusion slightly)
<blowfish>
yeah, it makes the semantic versioner in me nervous but probably slightly less confusing
<blowfish>
I never know what to do with KSP version updates in terms of mod versions
<taniwha>
I tend to go for at least minor updates
<taniwha>
because compatibility is usually out the window
<egg|zzz|egg>
blowfish: NathanKell: what if you put both the 1.2.2 and the 1.3-targeting dlls in the package you ship, and rely on only one being able to load
<blowfish>
we talked about it, I don't think there's a way to do it
<blowfish>
you can prevent the 1.3 one from loading on 1.2.2 but not the other way around
<egg|zzz|egg>
huh?
* egg|zzz|egg
should eggsperiment
* egg|zzz|egg
should sleep though
<blowfish>
KSPAssemblyDependency checks >=
<NathanKell>
^
<egg|zzz|egg>
hm
<NathanKell>
Are there any new dlls in 1.3 we could reference that don’t exist in 1.2?
<NathanKell>
err wait no nm, other way
<NathanKell>
yeah, there sure aren’t any in 1.2 that got removed in 1.3 afaik
<egg|zzz|egg>
dlls no, but stuff that changed signature plenty
<NathanKell>
WOW this is abad bug with training
<NathanKell>
egg|zzz|egg: That’ll just throw exceptions not prevent load, AFAIK
<egg|zzz|egg>
hm
<Bornholio>
what should i look for NK
<NathanKell>
Bornholio: After recovery, training dies
<Bornholio>
kills the training module?
<Bornholio>
i'm just about to land a guy
<NathanKell>
No, the training isn’t seen anymore
<NathanKell>
and you have to retrain in proficiency
<Bornholio>
interesting
<NathanKell>
once you recover, quit
<NathanKell>
I’ll have a new dll
<NathanKell>
for those who have people trained but not flown yet, do *not* upgrade yet.
<NathanKell>
(or if you do, you will have to tweak the sfs slightly)
<ferram4>
I am extremely disappointed in the effect of pump efficiency on Isp. Having the pump efficiency go from 0.33 -> 0.8 on a J-2-alike only saved ~3s or so. I expected more.
<Bornholio>
what do you mean by upgrade in this context
<blowfish>
ferram4: I guess that explains why they were able to put both pumps on the same shaft for the RD-0120 and still get efficiency comparable to the SSME
<blowfish>
ferram4: also is this holding chamber pressure constant?
<ferram4>
Yes
<blowfish>
huh, what's the gas generator vs main cc flow ratio in the J-2? I guess if it's small that result would make sense
<ferram4>
Most of the numbers my sim comes up with have hydrolox gas gens running at less than 1% of the chamber mass flow
<blowfish>
hmm yeah ... so if you have to up the gg flow by 2.5x, still not going to change efficiency thaaat much
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7HKR
<github>
RP-0/Developmental d1101eb NathanKell: Fix a huuuuuge bug with training, from me not understanding the difference between flight log and career log.
<NathanKell>
Pap: ^ Here’s the bug. I was only looking in flightLog, but KSP archives flightlog to careerlog after each flight. So I need to look in career log. BUT that means that people need to NOT UPDATE THE DLL until after they fly all trained kerbals or their training will get lost.
<NathanKell>
Pap: Or they can edit the SFS and move all the FLIGHT_LOG entries over to CAREER_LOG manually, and manually update the indices
<Bornholio>
or just redo the training?
<NathanKell>
err, yeah, or just redo the training
<NathanKell>
all of it
<NathanKell>
Then however you’ll get duplicate proficiencies.
<NathanKell>
Ah, hang on
<NathanKell>
I have an idea
<NathanKell>
nope, nm
<Bornholio>
not a biggy given its all in dev and i'll be restarting this again next week .sigh
<NathanKell>
I *think* we’re past the restart stage
<NathanKell>
I hope.
<NathanKell>
editing the sfs is super simple though, and if you want to retrain, just remove all training flightlog entries
<NathanKell>
anything staring TRAINING_
<NathanKell>
(from FLIGHT_LOG nodes)
<SpecimenSpiff>
I'd just noticed that bug, went for 2nd flight and had no proficiency
<SpecimenSpiff>
opf course I retrained and flew, which means im going to lose it again :(
<SpecimenSpiff>
btw 4 months of training for a suborbital flight seems excessive
<NathanKell>
What part?
<NathanKell>
X1?
<NathanKell>
That should only be 15 days. It *expires* in 4 months IIRC...
<NathanKell>
Even proficiency training is only like a month
<NathanKell>
hey, if you guys upload your saves I’m happy to fix them for the new dll
<NathanKell>
it’s super simple
<blowfish>
NathanKell: if you don't object, I'd rather pull your new changes into a different branch and keep the release on the 1.2.2 Final branch. Does that seem reasonable to you?
<NathanKell>
blowfish: sounds fine to me!
<Bornholio>
no worries, gonna lighten up testing time for a week anyway.
<blowfish>
NathanKell: cool, any preference for what to call it?
<Pap>
Woah, that is a scary bug NathanKell
<NathanKell>
blowfish: nextRP0 ?
<blowfish>
sounds good to me, thanks
<SpecimenSpiff>
rp-1?
<NathanKell>
heh
<Bornholio>
RP-1 !
<NathanKell>
It’s tempting. It’s nearly a new mod at this point
<Pap>
I don't think it is even nearly a new mod, it is completely different. I went and played the release version yesterday and was laughing at the differences
<Bornholio>
Just master to dev is pretty high learning curve
<NathanKell>
Pap: Yeah, I think so. Use 95% utilization
<NathanKell>
Pap: Except, uh...
<NathanKell>
it depends on density of propellants :(
<NathanKell>
it won’t be just one number
<Pap>
Ah, damn
<NathanKell>
NTO/MMH will be very different from hydrolox, eg
<Pap>
How do we explain to the players (also to me) the advantages of going from Tank I to Tank II to Tank III?
<NathanKell>
We can mention kg/cubic meter, maybe?
<NathanKell>
that’s more straightforward
<blowfish>
are the different tank tiers separate parts or selectable options?
<Pap>
blowfish: separate parts
<NathanKell>
so I didn’t have to write an upgrade system in MFT-RF
<Pap>
Is DXT-1 the correct DDS format for textures?
<NathanKell>
For loading screens? Yep. No mipmaps. I used 1600x900 to keep sizes down
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<SpecimenSpiff>
I noticed that not all of them are the same size. and at least on my 4k desktop, some of them get pretty pixelated
<blowfish>
if they're taken in-game, probably depends on what screen resolution whoever took them had
<blowfish>
no way to take a screenshot at higher resolution than you have AFAIK
<blowfish>
well, that would make it not a screenshot of course, but I mean to render the current view at higher resolution
<NathanKell>
Pap, did you scale all yours?
<Pap>
NathanKell: I did not, do we need to shrink them down? I am at 1920x1080
<NathanKell>
I was keeping them at 1600x900 to keep size down
<NathanKell>
70% as large as 1920
<Pap>
I will do the same
<SRBuchanan>
There are ways to get 'screenshots' at a higher resolution than your display, but only if the game has a native screenshot function and has that option.
<SRBuchanan>
Basically it renders a single frame at the specified resolution.
<SpecimenSpiff>
earthrise is 1920x1080
<SpecimenSpiff>
so is jupiterflyby
<NathanKell>
KSP does, yes
<NathanKell>
the TEDMODE
<SpecimenSpiff>
so are most of them, actually
<Pap>
SpecimenSpiff: so is Atlas and the Lunar Satellite
<SRBuchanan>
Sweet. I only ever use Steam for my screenshots. I will look in to that, though my PC can not handle rendering things that pretty anyways.
<SpecimenSpiff>
and yeah, its the 1600x900 ones that appear pixelated for me
<NathanKell>
Mine I just pulled from the RO OP
<NathanKell>
Well other than the Molniya
<blowfish>
does anyone have a 1.2.2 RF install that doesn't take forever to load?
<blowfish>
(and if so could I ask you to test something real quick?)
<NathanKell>
depends on if I need to rebuild config cache
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<blowfish>
I think no, it's just making sure the RF bug is fixed before releasing
<NathanKell>
ah sure
<blowfish>
although, if you've got the new RP-0 stuff on your install might it react badly with that?
<NathanKell>
I can load in sandbox easily enough
<NathanKell>
Did you just revert, or do leave the new code but jigger the properties?
<blowfish>
I reverted
<blowfish>
although I guess you already verified that it fixed that
<NathanKell>
Quite :)
<Pap>
Alright, attempting Chicago I, the first Orbital Launch with the new RP-1 mod. It costs me 2075, 6090 to Rollout and will take 75 days to build
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<NathanKell>
Specs?
<Pap>
Thor (S-3) with an Able (AJ10-37) and a cluster of 3 Baby Sergeants with a Sounding Rocket Telemetry Unit and 4 science experiments
<Pap>
4/1/1957
<NathanKell>
Nice!
<Pap>
The timing is about right :)
<NathanKell>
indeed it is!
<blowfish>
welp, this .version file has existed for like half an hour and I already forgot to update it for the next version
<Pap>
.version files are the wors
<Pap>
worst
<Pap>
Would anyone be interested if I added a yellow texture for Proc Tanks to create a WAC Corporal?
<NathanKell>
blowfish: :D
<NathanKell>
Pap: Sounds good to me!
<SpecimenSpiff>
pap only if you also add appropriate textures for the r-100 and skylark while you're at it
<NathanKell>
v-2-a ?
<blowfish>
okay, released the 1.2.2 version of RF
<blowfish>
going to draft the 1.3 version, then wait overnight for NetKAN to index the 1.2.2 version then publish
<blowfish>
and also not say anything in the thread until tomorrow
<NathanKell>
Makes sense!
<Pap>
We have orbit!
<NathanKell>
WOOT
<SpecimenSpiff>
good job
<SpecimenSpiff>
I'm still in 1951, hope it doesn't take me until 1957...
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<SpecimenSpiff>
how hard is it to add textures to proc parts, and proc fairings? I have tons of tank textures, but not many fairing textures, especially interstage
<SpecimenSpiff>
holy shit, I thought I had 150k funds, I had 1.5m funds. time to buy some upgrades
<Pap>
That's....a lot of funds
<NathanKell>
Maybe the contract payouts are too high then
<SpecimenSpiff>
ive been doing lots of souding and suborbital contracts, but sounds like I have reward too high
<NathanKell>
crewed Suborbital contracts reward too much IMO
<Pap>
NathanKell: I am coming to the conclusion that they are too high
<SpecimenSpiff>
Im set on normal and bumped x5, I think
<NathanKell>
also they need to be exclusive with X-Plane High
<SpecimenSpiff>
which would I expect to be better, service module I, or tank II-hp?
<Pap>
SpecimenSpiff: SM-I only has a max 50% utilization
<NathanKell>
For what purpose SpecimenSpiff?
<SpecimenSpiff>
right now, sounding payload
<SpecimenSpiff>
i just noticed that tank ii wont let me pick that
<Pap>
Yeah, it is only in Tank-I-HP or the SM tanks
<NathanKell>
Pap, Maxsimal was suggesting allowing it in Tank-I instead of Tank-I-HP
<NathanKell>
I have no problem with that
<NathanKell>
it doesn’t have to be much protected, unlike electronics
<Pap>
That might make sense, before it was in the HP tanks because it made sense, with the new tanks, doesn't make as much sense
<Pap>
sounds good
<NathanKell>
yep
<NathanKell>
cool
<SpecimenSpiff>
btw, is there a reason the sounding rocket core is .3m, and the aerobee core is more like 0.39?
<Pap>
NathanKell: Did you know that you can set an experiment to require a specific amount of EC to consume per second while it is gathering the science?
<SpecimenSpiff>
would be much easier to upgrade and mix parts if those were the same size
<Pap>
SpecimenSpiff: They are 2 different rockets
<Pap>
The larger one is the Aerobee
<NathanKell>
Pap: Ah cool!
<Pap>
The other one is based off the size of the WAC-Corporal
<NathanKell>
SpecimenSpiff: The WAC Corporal was 1ft diameter. The Aerobees were all 18iin
<NathanKell>
s/ii/i/
<Qboid>
NathanKell meant to say: SpecimenSpiff: The WAC Corporal was 1ft diameter. The Aerobees were all 18in
<Pap>
The confusion comes from the fact they both use the "Aerobee" engine I think
<NathanKell>
Yeah
<NathanKell>
Oh right savebreaking!
<NathanKell>
I can fix that!!!
<SpecimenSpiff>
this has been kind of fun upgrading my sounding rockets over a few generations, as opposed to flying 3 or 4 then going for orbit
<SpecimenSpiff>
this "bumper-wac" clone now has an a-9 in the booster, then the aerojet solid, then an xasr aerobee. reached 1.5Mm empty, going for 900km with a 60unit payload this time
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to dev: https://git.io/v7HXv
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7HXU
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 6883bb3 NathanKell: remove dupe line in CBK config
<github>
RP-0/Developmental d235aad NathanKell: Don't allow doubling up on suborbitals
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7HXk
<Pap>
Alright, off to bed, have a good one everybody
<Pap>
o/
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<Gus>
So I made a pretty good replica of the Angara 1.2, the Atlas V 431, and the Titan II GLV, and used the mega mechjeb to fly them
<Gus>
and I noticed some odd behaviors, but it did get the job done.
<Gus>
It seemed to get confused later in the flights, where the atlas V's centaur stage spent about 5 minute pointing -45' below prograde
<Gus>
the Titan did something similar in its upper stage as well, though only for the last few seconds.
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<SpecimenSpiff>
gus, sounds like your pitch program may need work
<SpecimenSpiff>
its a good idea to do the stage analysis, and see what pitch it wants, then adjust your pitch program to be at that pitch when it ends
<Gus>
SpecimenSpiff: Well, I think I understand that, but this is during the orbital phase, near the end fo the burns
<Gus>
Well, the centaur wasn't, that's true, lol
<blowfish>
it could be that final pitch angle is highly sensitive to the initial pitch program in PEG
<Gus>
One other question, is it uncouth to have two seperate fuel tanks for the same stage? One cryogenic for the LOX and one default for the kerosene?
<blowfish>
i.e. small changes in booster pitch can cause large changes to the angle to prograde at orbital insertion
<Gus>
rgr that blowfish I'll try to amend my pitch angles
<Gus>
I will say, I do like being able to run using the data from actual nasa missions. I recall seeing the pitch program for the Atlas-Mercury launcher
<Gus>
that was years ago,
<Gus>
but I'm sure I could find it and plug it in
<SpecimenSpiff>
I know lamont is still working on that plugin, I don't think he expects it to exactly match a real nasa profile yet, if ever
<Gus>
SpecimenSpiff: No but it would match the pre-calculation phase perfectly
<Gus>
I remember it saying something to the effect of "after X seconds, the vehicle pitched over at 2 degrees per second until Y heading.", though I'm not sure what all the numbers were.
<Gus>
It was in some manual somewhere
<Gus>
Kudos to lamont , it does do a very good job flying itself compared to either my best guesses or MJ's stock ascent system.
<Gus>
I'm often shocked when a flight path that seems rather arbitrary ends up being remarkably efficient
<lamont>
yeah, for the next rev i’m going to make the pitch program stop once you hit the pitch that PEG is predicting, then there’s no “lining it up” — considering making zero or negative values of pitch end just mean go until you meet up with the PEG prediction...
<Gus>
for example, I just flew an angara to a 200x250 orbit, and it flew it so that at meco the vehicle was at almost exactly 200km. literally only 7 meters too high XD
<Gus>
200007 meter perigee, 251860 meter apogee
<Gus>
that's just shocking to me
<Gus>
I don't think it flew centaur or titan very well, but I think I must have done my pitch program badly - this vehicle had a pitch program that I think was more accurate.
<Gus>
Anyway, I'm off to bed .Moving day tomorrow, and then once my computers are set up again I might fire up blender, max, or maya - maybe make an engine or two, NathanKell|NOMZ ;3
<lamont>
titan i think has issues with being too high TWR and too short of a burntime
<Gus>
yeah, I always have to say that Titan is my favorite rocket to build, least favorite to fly - damn bat out of hell!
<lamont>
the atlas-centaur low TWR upper stage should fly fine, that’s what i typically test with
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<lamont>
yeah titan would need a coast period
<Gus>
lamont: I think I just flew it badly, haha. Or I didn't trust your program. a -45' pitch was too scary so I changed some of my target numbers, hoping to slap some sense into the thing.
<SpecimenSpiff>
I laugh at nathankell's suborbital death contraption, then I cause valentina to black out from g's in mine...
<lamont>
-45 pitch sounds wrong, i think that sounds more like it was having issues converging
<Gus>
Upon realizing that it was dead set on whatever it was doing, I shut down the guidance system and used the standard mechjeb maneuver planner to execute the circularization, yay centaur.
<Gus>
I'll try that mission tomorrow just to see if I can make it work better, or replicate the problem.
<Gus>
Spiff, it's all wing. OF course it flies well!
<Gus>
Remind me of an Me-163 from hell!
<SpecimenSpiff>
I sent valentina up to 240km in that, and a few hundred km out to sea
<Gus>
chutes to come home?
<SpecimenSpiff>
re-entry wasnt that hot, but I pulled up too much and pulled too many g's
<Gus>
death or discomfort?
<lamont>
well this paper i thought wans’t useful turned out to have the whole PEG-4 block diagram pseudo-code buried in the last appendix
<SpecimenSpiff>
she blacked out, but recovered, not its gliding back towards home
<SpecimenSpiff>
ill pop chutes soon
<SpecimenSpiff>
it's maintaining speed at a 10 degree glide slope, but that wont get me anywhere near land
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<ProjectThoth>
Does it float?
<SpecimenSpiff>
im about to find out
<SpecimenSpiff>
yep, it floats. and wow, 20g+ to black out, and she's only inactive for 11 days
<ProjectThoth>
Jeez.
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<NathanKell>
!tell Pap* I would suggest not using the new tank types outside RP-0 so far. Also, looks like the SSTU RCS commit reversed the RCSNozzle stuff I did?
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Theysen>
NathanKell|Twitch, is twitch failing on me or issues?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
I had to restart
<NathanKell|Twitch>
starting now
<Theysen>
gotcha :)
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7HyG
<github>
RP-0/Developmental d52f141 NathanKell: maxcount didn't work, using min and invert.
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
!tell Pap* those contract changes don’t seem to work after all. Dang.
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7H9x
<github>
RP-0/Developmental e6a4dca NathanKell: Lower tank tooling mults
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<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7HH3
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7HHn
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 4647b6f NathanKell: Reducer between IB/PF base and proc decoupler
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<Pap|Sleep>
!tell NathanKell* Yep, those SSTU changes have been sitting on my PC for a while. I forgot that you fixed / changed the RCS! I will fix them and re-push
<Qboid>
Pap|Sleep: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
Pap|Sleep: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [13.08.2017 07:12:08]: "I would suggest not using the new tank types outside RP-0 so far. Also, looks like the SSTU RCS commit reversed the RCSNozzle stuff I did?"
<Qboid>
Pap|Sleep: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [13.08.2017 08:56:15]: "those contract changes don’t seem to work after all. Dang."
<Pap|Sleep>
!tell NathanKell* I also forgot that the new tank types are created in RP-0. I'll change the Atlas tanks back. That was more meant as a test on my end.
<Qboid>
Pap|Sleep: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
\o
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to dev: https://git.io/v7HAt
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Did you download the newest RO and RP-0 Dev before starting up KSP today?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
haven't even started up KSP yet, so no!
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
should I? :P
<Pap>
Always, every single day (Unless someone tells you it is savebreaking)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
got it
<Pap>
NathanKell fixed some nasty bugs with the tooling / crew training
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
do you think the SSTU tooling will be save-breaking? does it make sense to continue my current new career before that is implemented?
<Pap>
I was working with NK on the SSTU tooling yesterday, It does not look like it is going to happen until version 1.3. SSTU has changed a lot of things from 1.2.2 to 1.3 and will need to be completely re-written. There is a lot of coding to get it to work right with the way it works, so it was decided to wait and only do it once
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ok, I get that, but I'm not going to go back to Procedural Tanks. they induce crazy lag, and i'm trying to spread the word. others confirm my observation.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I'd say that needs fixing first :/
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
and it's your fault! you were the one to get me to try SSTU in the first place :p
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
now I'm enjoying my near-30fps too much
<Pap>
Oh trust me, I am the biggest SSTU fan there is!
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but then RO/RP0 1.2.2 seems like a DOA
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
i don't want to be in your shoes :(
<Sarbian>
The new MJ build has now a selection of attitude controllers. You can switch between the MJ and KoS controller (and a 3rd WIP controller)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Sarbian: cool
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I have a small idea/request, not sure whether it's doable or not
<Sarbian>
From my few test I think the KOS controller works better in atmo and MJ's in space. But I ll let you make your own opinion
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
an on/off-toggle that controls whether MJ uses RCS thrusters for attitude control
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it would come in handy for very specific cases, such as the deployment of comsat constellations, or very precise maneuvers
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
(anything but urgent, though)
<Sarbian>
There is something like that already in the attitude adjsutement windows. It should toggle the RCS only when needed but I forgot the exact conditions
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
SmartRCS only works for manual attitude control, not for MJ doing the control, if that's what you mean
<Sarbian>
It may needs some love but the ground work is there
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<Bornholio>
.
<Pap>
Everyone safe Bornholio ?
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<Bornholio>
storm fell apart before getting to us :)
<Pap>
Great news
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<Bornholio>
you release 40 commits and 3 major changes to dev last night?
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<Pap>
Bornholio: That sounds like what NK did, yep. I added some small SSTU stuff
<awang>
Man you guys were busy last night
<Bornholio>
it was only 11 commits i exagerate
<Pap>
Some were fixes I made to bad updates I made o.O
<Bornholio>
pap whats left for new release of RSS?
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<awang>
Still
<Pap>
RSS, I don't think anything. Well, we have to decide on the Moon biomes
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<Bornholio>
I was hoping for the moons of Uranus soon :)
<Bornholio>
so many jokes to be made
<Iskierka>
easy enough to start with the mares and work from there?
<Bornholio>
27 is a lot though, by the time i get to 10 i'm tired of the moon
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<Iskierka>
so combine a few of the smaller ones into like "east mares"?
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<Pap>
I am thinking of maybe combining all of the craters into Major Craters
<Pap>
Leave all the Mares?
<Iskierka>
I feel like the mares are supposed to have geologically significant differences so it'd be worth differentiating the important ones
<Iskierka>
craters are all impacts of various types, so shouldn't be too dissimilar?
<Pap>
That would be 8 less Biomes which is a good start
<Pap>
That leaves 19 biomes with the Oceanus Procellarum and 11 Mares
<egg>
Pap: Bornholio: I thought you were going to add the moons of Uranus in the next release?
* egg
is increasingly confused
<Pap>
egg: They are included
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<egg>
ah, good
<Pap>
We are trying to decide how to handle the additional biomes of The Moon
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
we should all just agree to call Uranus 'Caelus' from now on
<egg>
Pap: you did check that it works with Principia?
<egg>
(works as in doesn't crash on load at least)
<Pap>
I have not tested it yet
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* Pap
ducks for cover
<Bornholio>
egg i'll make that a task for today
<Bornholio>
anything badly broken with your branch right now pap?
<Pap>
Bornholio: The dev version (in master) should work. You "might" have to use the current RealSolarSystem.dll as I think the one in there is for 1.3
<egg>
Bornholio: the version of Principia that's currently out is Cayley, which targets 1.2.2
<egg>
Bornholio: but the next RSS release is targeting 1.2.2 too if I understand correctly
<egg>
(at least that's what NK told me)
<Bornholio>
yeah at least one n=more 1.2.2 but maybe also a 1.3
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* egg
failed to parse what Bornholio said
<Bornholio>
lol and 'holio failed to type what was intended (sounded like RSS 1.2.2 and 1.3 release at the same time, since master has a 1.3 .dll in it now
<egg>
uh
<Bornholio>
see pap pointing me at 1.3 textures and noting to change dll :P
<Pap>
Well, the textures version number is "kinda" a coincidence, but I agree on the DLL
<egg>
right, but now I'm confused as to how to proceed
<Bornholio>
NK said we release 1.2.2 next right? but 1.3 version is qued up soon after
<Pap>
I think it would make sense to release both 1.2.2 and 1.3 at the same time. There is most likely nothing that will change with RSS anytime soon to create another release. It just gets tricky with versioning
<egg>
Pap: it makes things really shitty from our viewpoint
<Pap>
Oh really egg, how so? I didn't know it would
<egg>
Pap: because we do not currently support 1.3, so if you release it before чебышёв is out, users that switch to 1.3 will not have principia, therefore won't get the reminder that there's a new version, etc.
<egg>
(we cannot allow a Principia gap!)
<Pap>
Ah, I see
<egg>
Pap: чебышёв will be dual-released for 1.2.2 and 1.3, so once that's out (at the time of the eclipse), you can release for whichever version you want
<egg>
(versions even)
<Pap>
So we have about 8 days or so?
<Bornholio>
ok on to testing
<egg>
Pap: for about 8 days you shouldn't release anything for 1.3
<Pap>
I think we should hold off and release both then after you release for 1.3. We are not in a hurry, RO/RP-0 will not be ready for an update by then, no need to rush RSS IMO
<egg>
Pap: you're cleared to release for 1.2.2 if you test with Cayley, and in 8 days you can release whatever you want if you test with чебышёв
<egg>
(чебышёв being dual-released, it will cover users on the existing version of RSS)
<egg>
Pap: that sounds like a plan
<Pap>
Obviously NathanKell has final say, but he hasn't seemed to be in a hurry up to this point
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<Starwaster>
NathanKell|AWAY I thought there was also going to be support for editing number of layers of MLI?
<Bornholio>
1.2.2 dev RO/development RP-0/RSS(Master no dll changes) Boots with principia(Cayley) at least :)
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<egg>
Bornholio: yay
<egg>
Bornholio: have a look at the axial tilt of Uranus and check that it matches the moons
<egg>
(also Saturn while you're at it, enjoy the view :-p)
<Bornholio>
okay, inspecting my tilit of uranus to enjoy the view :P
<awang>
egg: If you've been testing Principia with dev RP-0, count me in
<awang>
I've had both installed for a bit
<awang>
Didn't know you were testing
<Bornholio>
it needs RSS changes included also
<awang>
Oh?
<awang>
Didn't know there was a new version of RSS
<awang>
Oh wait
<Bornholio>
added moons of uranus and other things
<awang>
I misread what you typed :(
<awang>
Read "RP-0/RO"
<awang>
Oops
<Bornholio>
regardless if you want to test new RSS changes vs principia that would be great. I copied my dev install to do it and made RSS changes against that copy
<awang>
git ftw
<awang>
Who needs copies :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
just watching a streamer who took the Galileo planet system and scaled it up to Solar System scale..
<Bornholio>
x10 GPP has been around for a while
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
epic!
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
for when i've done everything in RSS, which will be never :P
<Bornholio>
earths forest :) pap .SHOCK!
<awang>
Has anyone done x10 RSS?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
^^
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
'here, look at my N1 sounding rocket'
<Bornholio>
and thats assuming you reduce the gravity to 1
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
oh, true
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<Bornholio>
egg pap I see no defects as of yet using current master RSS/textures1.3 vs principia Cayley
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
"the following crew members will be on leave: Jebediah Kerman" for an entire month :O :D wth
<egg>
borntoflee: confused by that 1.3 in your sentence, that's still on KSP 1.2.2 right?
<egg>
cc Pap
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<Maxsimal>
o/ Scott - or a Scott impersonator
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
oh Scott will so have to make an RP0 video series once released
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
all those new features...
<Maxsimal>
hahaha yeah it'll be 30 minutes of "What, how does this work now?"
<awang>
s/RP0/RP-1
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
and .. 'why did my main kerbonaut just request Christmas PTO..?'
<awang>
lol
<awang>
Or "What do you mean government shutdown"
<awang>
Kerbal strikes?
<Maxsimal>
!tell NathanKell: Btw, after thinking about the staging stuff - I think having formulas like yours that keeps the intergration multiplier low is the best way to go. Another option, and I'm not sure if you can do this, would be to ignore stages & parts containing things like RCS, SRB's and chutes - that would bring it less bad for people who don't understand it.
<Qboid>
Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<borntoflee>
egg yes still on 1.2.2 KSP
<borntoflee>
!tell NathanKell|AWAY you rock thanks for the colored R&D icons change. very helpful
<Qboid>
borntoflee: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: not only colored R&D icons, but also the bugs seem to have been fixed :)
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<Bornholio>
pap is saturns rings being a big white disk an artifact of not rolling back my RSS .dll? Guess i should set up a clean install and check
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<egg>
!seen lamont
<Qboid>
egg: I last saw lamont on [13.08.2017 05:56:06] in #RO saying: "well this paper i thought wans’t useful turned out to have the whole PEG-4 block diagram pseudo-code buried in the last appendix"
<egg>
!tell lamont Чебышёв has been tagged, can you make a macintosh build at that tag before the egglipse so we can include it in the main release?
<Qboid>
egg: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<SpecimenSpiff>
o/
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<NathanKell>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: Pap|Sleep left a message for you in #RO [13.08.2017 12:16:23]: "Yep, those SSTU changes have been sitting on my PC for a while. I forgot that you fixed / changed the RCS! I will fix them and re-push"
<Qboid>
NathanKell: Pap|Sleep left a message for you in #RO [13.08.2017 12:17:46]: "I also forgot that the new tank types are created in RP-0. I'll change the Atlas tanks back. That was more meant as a test on my end."
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<soundnfury>
heya NathanKell
<soundnfury>
just started working on that training GUI
<NathanKell>
\o/
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: You can steal the training string, since I refactored it to a separate method in CrewHandler
<NathanKell>
that will get all relevant training
<NathanKell>
(and their expirations)
<NathanKell>
Pap: coolz :)
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: what I really want right now is a way to get "Has PCM naut taken CourseTemplate course, and if so what's the expiry date?"
<soundnfury>
(where rather than a CourseTemplate I actually have the ActiveCourse from OfferedCourses but if the lookup is based on course.id that should be fine)
<NathanKell>
It’s not tho
<NathanKell>
the id has nothing to do with what’s in the flight log, sorry
<NathanKell>
this is because a given course may have all sorts of effects
<NathanKell>
What matters is the effects
<soundnfury>
ok, so is there no way of matching a naut's training-effects to a specific course?
<NathanKell>
At the moment maybe, but it’s really not a good idea IMO--why would you want to?
<NathanKell>
The question is not “what have they taken” but “what can they do”
<soundnfury>
I want to have, when a course has been selected, a table of kerbals
<soundnfury>
that indicates things like "currently taking $otherCourse, won't be done until $completeTime"
<NathanKell>
Ah
<soundnfury>
and "doesn't need to take this course, because already did, and will have these skills until $expiryTime"
<NathanKell>
if they’re *currently* taking courses, then you can get that from the activecourses list
<soundnfury>
and the latter looks like it may not be a thing
<soundnfury>
Yeah, the currently part I've done
<NathanKell>
Right now, yes, you could hardcode it because we only give one flight log entry per course. But that will not be a thing for long
<NathanKell>
Oh
<NathanKell>
what you *could* do is go through each reward in the rewardlog and see if it’s in a naut’s log
<NathanKell>
and if it is, say *that reward* has already been taken
<NathanKell>
basically the actual effects (and expiration of effects) are per reward, not per course
<soundnfury>
ok, then I have to rethink my UI slightly
<soundnfury>
my design was based off the assumption that expiration was per course
<soundnfury>
thanks for correcting me before I went too far :)
<NathanKell>
Ah, yeah. Basically for RP-0 it didn’t make sense to do the “course” model at all, so that’s only internal right now because that’s how magico wrote it (as a SOKERBAL thing). In reality you’d select the pod(s), the environment(s), the duration, and hit ‘train for that’
<NathanKell>
fully procedural courses
<NathanKell>
“courses”
<NathanKell>
I need to find all hits on ‘course’ and change them, too, although not while you’re in the file :D
<soundnfury>
This would be a lot easier if training was all in an actual relational database :|
<NathanKell>
I was thinking of rewriting it to do that, and only serialize/deserialize
<NathanKell>
searching in logs is slow anywya
<NathanKell>
s/wya/way/
<Qboid>
NathanKell meant to say: searching in logs is slow anyway
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<soundnfury>
NathanKell: can I use the id to detect whether a 'naut is currently _on_ a course?
<soundnfury>
i.e., match an ActiveCourses id to an OfferedCourses id
<NathanKell>
There can be multiple activecourses of the same ID I believe
<NathanKell>
but the activecourse has all the data that a template would have anyway, no?
<soundnfury>
yes but are all activecourses of the same ID derived from the same coursetemplate?
<soundnfury>
what I want is, you're currently looking to select kerbals to go on course X. it's displaying all the kerbals, and for some of them saying "currently on course Y". I want to display them differently when X == Y
<NathanKell>
Ah
<NathanKell>
But as soon as kerbal goes on a course it goes inactive and therefore should not show up for selection in any other course
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: it's ineligible for selection, but I want to display *why* ("currently on course Y")
<NathanKell>
Ohhh
<NathanKell>
I see now
<NathanKell>
Yeah I’d just look through activecourses for the one they’re on and print the name of that then I guess?
<NathanKell>
I need to also do that in the astronaut complex
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<soundnfury>
yeah I've found the ActiveCourse that the kerbal is currently on (I build a reverse-map), that's fine
<soundnfury>
the question is whether I can use matching IDs to determine "yeah, that course is the one you're currently picking people to add to"
<soundnfury>
because that _same_ tab of the UI is _also_ used for just "I want to find out about this particular course"
<NathanKell>
Ah. Yes, in that case, **for now**, yes
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7QlJ
<github>
RP-0/Developmental eb90b3b NathanKell: Display training as label in AC tooltip
<NathanKell>
soundnfury ^ I don’t think that will conflict since it only touches the tooltip bit
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7Qlm
<NathanKell>
Hypergolic_Skunk: I know you get better framerates with SSTU. But I simply can’t invest 3-4 days in writing a wrapper for it (it’s super complex) only to have to do it again for 1.3.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NathanKell: it's all good, i totally get it :)
<NathanKell>
If you absolutely *must* play with it, then place proc parts beside your SSTU parts in the editor of the same width-height and tool them :P
<NathanKell>
Also the SSTU parts don’t use the new tank types either
<NathanKell>
so there’s that
<NathanKell>
Pap you around?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
will the current SSTU not work with a 1.2.2 RP-0 release? as in, will Proc Tanks be mandatory?
<NathanKell>
Well, we’ll see how much we get done in the next little bit
<NathanKell>
maybe I’ll have time for a barebones SSTU integration
<NathanKell>
which tank(s) do you use?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
just the modular one
<NathanKell>
there’s 5.
<NathanKell>
Which
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Modular Standard Fuel Tank
<NathanKell>
ok
<NathanKell>
not the upper stage one?
<NathanKell>
how do you get your burn times right, then? It’s not super flexible I think?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
no :) smaller tanks are fine with Proc Tanks, but a stretched First Stage tank is really a performance killer (I'm exaggerating)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
oh it is. you have length, diameter, and vertical scale, + utilization
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so in terms of burn time, it's easy. the only 'down side' is that you don't have different shapes, but that's actually not a problem
<NathanKell>
ah, utilization
<NathanKell>
because when I checked last night the vertical size, even with the scaling, wasn’t at all continuous
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
one question about that: do you generally leave that at 86%, or do you put it lower?
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<NathanKell>
For the new proc tanks use Tank-I/II/etc, it should be 100% for balloon, 97% or so for common bulkhead (assuming you do tank domes), 95% for split bulkhead, and ~90% for early pressure fed. That’s all assuming a normal aspect ratio stage, for shorter/fatter ones utilization goes down.
<NathanKell>
for the old setup, 86% assumes a split bulkhead stage about the height of Titan II first stage.
<NathanKell>
Shorter/fatter it goes down, taller it goes up, and common bulkhead it goes up. If you build the domes, then it also goes up
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I think I'm a bit too lazy to meddle with that, as I don't have enough engineering/historical knowledge to know what is what, really. so I typically leave 86 as a compromise :) but a couple of nights ago ProjectThoth calculated ideal delta-v ratio between S1 and S2 for me, and said that the PMF is crazy high.
<ProjectThoth>
hai errbody i have ben sumoned
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so I was wondering if 86% was crazy-high, which it doesn't seem to be
<NathanKell>
I wouldn’t go lower than 86% except in a short-and-fat stage
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ok, sanctioned by the Thoth and the NK, I feel blessed in my endeavours!
<NathanKell>
Hypergolic_Skunk: What *is* your stage pmf btw?
<awang>
Ah
<NathanKell>
maybe it’s some other stuff that’s at issue
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NathanKell: iirc 95% is what ProjectThoth came up with
<NathanKell>
that’s not that high
<NathanKell>
Certainly for a first stage
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but how can it be more than the utilization of the tank?
<NathanKell>
It’s high for modern LVs or hydrolox, sure
<NathanKell>
but 5% is about where Titan I first stage was
<NathanKell>
maybe a bit better
<NathanKell>
err, 95%
<awang>
"Added Ariel, Miranda, Oberon, Titania, Umbriel to the planet George"
<Pap>
Damn, thought I set this to AFK earlier
<Pap>
o/
<awang>
"George"?
<Pap>
Yes, George
<awang>
Uh huh
<NathanKell>
yo
<Pap>
That was the official name of Uranus as said by Herschel when he discovered it (named after King George who the USA rebelled against)
<ProjectThoth>
NathanKell: I think 0.94 is in the right range for LOX/RP-1 S1, generally.
<NathanKell>
ProjectThoth: Titan I-1 was 5.3%
<awang>
Oh
<Starwaster>
NathanKell, I thought we were also going to make the number of layers in the MLI configurable as well?
<NathanKell>
using 1958/9 tech
<awang>
Interesting
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Uranus should be called Caelus
<egg>
Pap: but then there was also a push to call it Herschel at some point, and to call Neptune Leverrier
<ProjectThoth>
NathanKell: Titan is weird.
<NathanKell>
ProjectThoth: Also Thor?
<Pap>
Ah egg, didn't know the later push for it
<egg>
Le Verrier probably
<ProjectThoth>
NathanKell: Everything is weird.
<NathanKell>
ProjectThoth: Stuff Von Braun designed doesn’t count because he overbuilt :P
<ProjectThoth>
NathanKell: I tend to be a bit too conservative in my estimates. :P
<egg>
Pap: that push to call it Herschel was mostly after Le Verrier's prediction & the discovery of Neptune iirc, they wanted to name it after the discoverer, and to justify that, do the same to Herschel :D
<NathanKell>
You build to Titan tolerances with Al-Li tanks and you’ll hit 4.8 or so I bet. Let alone with a single NK-33 instead of the LR87.
<egg>
After all we have the Galilean moons, why not the Herschel-Le Verrier planets :-p
<ProjectThoth>
I like balloon tanks.
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<NathanKell>
With balloon tanks you’d be down to 4.3% easy.
<NathanKell>
I mean, Titan II first stage was under 4% anyway :P
<ProjectThoth>
Balloon tanks make me happy.
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<Bornholio>
pap quick guess am i seeing biome maps on some of the planets instead of regular textures from not using correcct dll for 1.2.2 in new RSS?
<NathanKell>
shouldn’t have any effect
<NathanKell>
the dll just handles timewarp IIRC
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
does utilization mean the actual mass of the entire tank, or how much the actual tanks inside the tank structure are filled?
<NathanKell>
the latter
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah!
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
that's why :P
<NathanKell>
90% utilization means only 90% of the part’s volume is used for tankage
<Pap>
Bornholio did you switch your textures back after your testing? Or are you seeing issues in the testing branch?
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<Bornholio>
testing using the 1.3 link you gave
<Bornholio>
v1.3 that is
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<Pap>
Hmmm, it could be config issues on my end. Any planets in particular?
<Bornholio>
mars. jupiter saturn for sure, i'll load after dinner and check them all. I was thinking of making a clean 1.2.2 and just checking RSS alone next
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: so with the existing UI, you can remove a single 'naut from a course
<soundnfury>
which kinda makes the seatMin limit pointless, no?
<NathanKell>
yes
<NathanKell>
I think we should only have a cancel button
<NathanKell>
not a remove button
<NathanKell>
or, hmm, that should be a bool
<NathanKell>
because you should b[aris]e able to remove someone from basic training early
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<soundnfury>
NathanKell: shirley it should just be that you can remove someone as long as the course doesn't have a seatMin > 0?
<soundnfury>
(and otherwise you can only cancel the entire course)
<NathanKell>
Yeah could use that
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<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7Q0E
<github>
RP-0/Developmental ef14684 NathanKell: Redo tanks to use tank mass mostly instead of basemass. @ppboyle \o/
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7Q06
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 07eb1c5 NathanKell: blergh, do that right
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<NathanKell>
Pap: I have a task for you when you have time :)
<NathanKell>
Starwaster: so for the insulation types, we want an int layer count for MLI but a float sprayAmount for SOFI?
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<xShadowx|2>
i just had a thought - for simplicity lets assume just a basic cylindrical rocket, for RCS to spin it up, ksp is doing the calcs as if fuel was just a solid / immovable (in relation to part its in), but in the case of liquid fuel IRL, fuel would try to stay stationary making RCS more effective?
<xShadowx|2>
atleast to begin with?:|
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7QEv
<github>
RP-0/Developmental f97b9b8 NathanKell: Move TF RnD config to RP-0, modify for current RP-0 where entrycosts aren't reliable.
<Bornholio>
you would get viscosity effects that ould put a dervite term into the equation of motion. It would act as a damper or inductor in electrical terms. but not change the total energy to turn
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7QEk
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 8abc15d NathanKell: Increase TF RnD cost by 5x to account for rollout cost.
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: I’ll add you as a contrb I think that makes the most sense
<NathanKell>
don’t have to deal with PRs
<Pap>
Do I dare ask the task NathanKell ? :)
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: I'm not sure that's wise xD
<NathanKell>
there’s 2 actually. One is fix the suborbitals. I thought I had, but it doesn’t work :(
<NathanKell>
they need to be mutually exclusive
<soundnfury>
I feel much safer knowing you'll be reviewing my patches before merging them…
<NathanKell>
the other is to look through the new startnode and its tanks, and measure their max diameters and lengths and record that, so we can set entry costs based on tooling
<NathanKell>
soundnfury :^
<Pap>
OK
<NathanKell>
thanks!
<NathanKell>
I revised proc tank entry costs on the sheet just now
<NathanKell>
I’ll try to audit the rest of the non-tank early parts for cost/ec
<Pap>
So regular tanks will have no tooling, their tooling is what you are paying in entryCost, correct?
<NathanKell>
yeah
<NathanKell>
err
<NathanKell>
yeah
<NathanKell>
Oh, hmm
<NathanKell>
no, you’re right.
<NathanKell>
For now, just make the EC the tooling cost
<NathanKell>
later I’ll try to do better with that
<NathanKell>
we need to have interaction between entrycost and tooling...
<NathanKell>
but not now (tm)
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<Pap>
Yeah, because if someone wants to have a tank, but only use it once, they shouldn't necessarily need to pay the full amount, but that will come later, for now. Use procedurals or pay for tooling of pre-made tanks
<NathanKell>
yeah
<NathanKell>
Also if you unlock Titan I first stage you should get 3m tooling (and Atlas, get 3m balloon)
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<Pap>
Yeah, that interaction makes sense
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<Pap>
Would it be better for you, if I wrote some values into config files for these tanks diameter and length, and you wrote a simple wrapper that read those values and then we can accomplish that?
<NathanKell>
Not something I can easily do with MM, easier to do it on the spreadsheet
<Pap>
Would that be better than me doing the entryCosts, or is that too much work for you short-term and would rather tackle that later?
<NathanKell>
if you add another three columns to the sheet (type, diam, length) I’ll do the formula sure
<NathanKell>
they’ll all be Tank-I or Tank-I-HP I think
<NathanKell>
wait sorry
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<NathanKell>
they’re all tank-i or (if decouplers) IBPFBase or (if solid) Stringers
<NathanKell>
right, gotta do decouplers too sorry
<Pap>
GUI Request -> We cannot currently close the Maintenance window in a sandbox save. It should not pop up at all, but the toolbar icon is not there in Sandbox so it cannot close
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7Qug
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 2710c1d NathanKell: Move crew training out of the tree folder
<soundnfury>
Pap: good point, I'll fix that at some point probably I expect
<Pap>
OK, no rush soundnfury I just hadn't seen it mentioned
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7QuK
<github>
RP-0/Developmental c564d53 NathanKell: Make the crewed suborbitals not-accepted-other like sounding (I hope works now)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hey.. I am trying to launch my X-1, but I cannot select any of the kerbalnauts to pilot it. They are not on holiday as far as I can tell. I even trained the pilots on X-1, but still no dice. what am I doing wrong/missing? :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
erm, I am actually not using the X-1 cockpit, I just notice
<NathanKell>
did you train them for a _mission_ ?
<NathanKell>
did you get the latest pull?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
no! just for 'proficiency'
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I updated this morning
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: hmm, how's the LEM gonna work? Because, you don't assign 'nauts to its seats in the KCT launch GUI
<NathanKell>
proficiency is for years, but you also need to train for each mission
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah!
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: later I’ll be checking what kerbals are in a part and if they’re not trained for the part (or the SITUATION then...do something)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
that only takes 4 months :D
<soundnfury>
ah 'k
<NathanKell>
Hypergolic_Skunk: No, it *expires* in 4 months
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
gosh
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
only 10 days, that's much more acceptable :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I LOVE this feature :P
* NathanKell
rechecks his sarcasm detector
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:D I mean it! it's not your fault that I cannot read
<NathanKell>
:)
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<NathanKell>
note that mission training time is a function of average crew stupidity
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:O
<NathanKell>
(and proficiency expiration is, too)
<ferram4>
NathanKell, absolutely random question: let's say that I want to have a resource on a part that normally can be pumped, but I don't want it to be pumpable on this part. Is it possible?
<ferram4>
At least with what's in KSP now.
<NathanKell>
ferram4: per resource, hmm
<NathanKell>
you may be able to jigger stuff in the PartResource
<ferram4>
Not necessarily. Just, "nothing shall be pumped in or out of this part, even if it normally could be"
<NathanKell>
like flow_in and flow_out
<NathanKell>
ohhh
<ferram4>
Say, for having untouchable onboard nitrogen or helium for engine starts.
<NathanKell>
hmm. can’t toggle crossfeed because you still want it to go past yes?
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<ferram4>
Well, I dunno. All I want is to avoid RCS from being able to grab it or an engineer being able to pump it to another tank somewhere.
<ferram4>
This way adding weight for starts can be really easy to do and obvious to the player, because I doubt they'd have thought of the complications before.
<ferram4>
At least the more casual ones.
<ferram4>
Also, fuck turbopumps are complicated.
<NathanKell>
set the FlowMode on the partresource
<NathanKell>
you’ll have to manually draw from the partresource instead of using requestresource tho
<Pap>
NathanKell: You are good with all fairing bases, correct? Since RO converts them all to procedural
<NathanKell>
yep
<Pap>
Great news
<NathanKell>
:)
<NathanKell>
oh can you put the boattail along iwth the other bases?
<Pap>
Move it to the unlockParts node?
<Pap>
Did you find it at least in your game?
<NathanKell>
yeah
<Pap>
Sure thing
<NathanKell>
i didn’t remmber to looka fter you told me :]
<Pap>
OK for the "Tank Type" for Decouplers, it is IBPFBase?
<Pap>
And Solids are Stringers?
<NathanKell>
Solid whats?
<Pap>
This is what yo wrote earlier, trying to decipher it: they’re all tank-i or (if decouplers) IBPFBase or (if solid) Stringers
<NathanKell>
Ah sorry
<NathanKell>
1sec
<NathanKell>
I was wrong about decouplers
<NathanKell>
they should be type Decoupler
<NathanKell>
by solid I meant something like a structural part
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<NathanKell>
i.e. something of reasonable size but that doesn’t contain fuel, it’s just structural
<NathanKell>
or nosecones
<NathanKell>
nosocones are also Stringers
<Pap>
Ah, ok, I have been calling those Structural, will switch over