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<leudaimon> \o
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<soundnfury> NathanKell|AFK: something in RP0.KCTBinderModule.Update() is throwing IndexOutOfRangeException
<soundnfury> (I am tempted to distrust your i-- loops)
<leudaimon> hey soundnfury, did you get the linux fix to work?
<leudaimon> I'm loading ksp now to test it
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<soundnfury> leudaimon: yeah, works fine
<leudaimon> cool!
<leudaimon> oops, got one MM error
<leudaimon> 1 error related to GameData/RP-0/PartHacks.cfg 1 error related to GameData/RealPlume/000_Generic_Plumes/Hypergolic-Upper.cfg
<leudaimon> NathanKell|AFK, any ideas? ^
<soundnfury> NathanKell|AFK: apparently if I quit to main menu then reload, the indexception goes away
<leudaimon> yeah, there is something very wrong... got these errors during loading, and apparently MM got completely crazy... mostly no parts in the tech tree
<leudaimon> and some CC errors too
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<leudaimon> ok NathanKell|AFK, I'm not sure what was borked, but it's fixed now... however I'm getting some weirdness with the RP-0 gui, and also some duplicated things... the TF R&D engine button is duplicated in the right-click, and also there are two identical "stock" aerobee engines available to unlock
<leudaimon> the engine cfgs are correct though
<leudaimon> also, there are two buttons for the RP-0 gui
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<awang> What's the recommended difficulty settings nowadays?
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<Bornholio> master/release? or dev
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<Bornholio> master/release? or dev
<awang> dev
<Bornholio> choose any setting you want but multiply the rewards to x5 the setting baseline
<Bornholio> just the reward tho
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<Bornholio> Hard is quite difficult now, i normally play hard and i'd say it really is difficult and requires more grinding missions
<SRBuchanan> I have been playing Hard. Funding is a bit tight but I would characterize it as increasing grind rather than actual difficulty.
<Qboid> SRBuchanan: soundnfury left a message for you in #RO [08.08.2017 23:44:54]: "that f(x) simplifies to (x+8)/(2x+8), if that helps"
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<awang> Funds rewards only?
<Bornholio> yes
<awang> hm
<awang> Last time I played I also played on hard, but that was probably more than a year ago
<awang> Moderate sounds like a good idea
* soundnfury has been playing moderate, 400% funds, and that seems entirely reasonable so far
<soundnfury> (just preparing to launch my first satellite, on a twin-A-9 monstrosity)
<awang> That's pretty decently far, isn't it?
<soundnfury> (but not *right* now, because |zzz)
<soundnfury> awang: I play rather fast, I guess
<awang> At least until the next commit is made and you have to start over :P
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<SRBuchanan> Heh.
<awang> Wonder what a KSP speedrun would be like...
<SRBuchanan> It has been done in Stock.
<awang> Oh?
<awang> What was the end goal?
<SRBuchanan> Basically you just due a 'grand tour' with as few part unlocks as possible and max out the tech tree in a single absurd mission. This was more easily-done before building limitations were introduced.
<SRBuchanan> Er, do.
<SRBuchanan> One of those words. Do due dew...
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<awang> Huh
<awang> That sounds fun
<SRBuchanan> Eh.
<awang> Quick aside - am I supposed to leave the other options (e.g. CommNet) alone?
<awang> And Kerbal level-up
<Bornholio> run with whatever comnet/rt/none options you want
<awang> Although I suppose the latter will stop mattering once Kerbal training is implemented
<SRBuchanan> RemoteTech is generally best for Realism Overhaul.
<awang> Yeah, that's what I'm planning on using
<awang> Just wondering if the CommNet options affect anything
<Bornholio> its proc heavy so sometimes i don't play with it
<awang> Or if RT ignores them
<awang> Really?
<Bornholio> RT ignores
<awang> I had no idea
<awang> Oh ok
<Bornholio> make sure you select the RPo kct config
<awang> Right
<awang> I've forgotten that more than once
<awang> "Oh, I'll take care of this later"
<awang> "Why are my rockets building so fast?"
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<ferram4> !tell NathanKell* relevant to our previous discussion on page 346-351 of the pdf: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19710019929.pdf
<Qboid> ferram4: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Bornholio> nice book
<awang> Wait
<awang> Do you still have to maually select your starting KSC?
<Bornholio> if you have sitcher and don't want the start at cape canveral, you need to switch before assigning points
<Bornholio> since the points are zero :) no problem until you have some
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<Bornholio> switcher
<awang> Ah
<awang> Also, what are these newfangled integration costs?
<Bornholio> annual maintence costs that increase as your facilities increase
<Bornholio> and note that proc parts have a tooling cost that reduces greatly the build/rollout costs
<Bornholio> based on size of the part (not shape, just larger diamter and length)
<Bornholio> also there is a starting contract to give you the node with all the starting parts
<awang> Oh, I thought the integration costs were separate from regular facilities cost
<Bornholio> if you play with don't display unpurchased parts you can keep VAB clean of those parts you don't purchase
<awang> Hm
<awang> Looks like I have quite a bit to learn
<ferram4> Bornholio, the only problem with it is that everything is in IMPERIAL
<awang> Hmmm
<Bornholio> well being an engineer i can hate that, but the pain is real and i have coping skills
<awang> Something about the R&D building is **really** slow
<awang> Almost like super-long GC pauses
<Bornholio> .shrug. not on my end but i have few part packs
<awang> idk
<awang> I'm pushing my computer pretty hard, so it isn't entirely unexpected
<awang> KSP doesn't have a profiler, does it?
<Bornholio> it has a crappy usage monitor that seem to lie
<awang> Sounds helpful
<Bornholio> or i don't know what its trying to say
<Bornholio> memory usage it states is greatly lower than task manager
<Bornholio> Ferram4 Rankine is the one that hurts me no intuition about the temp unless i convert it to C/K
<awang> Hm
<ferram4> Bornholio, take Fahrenheit, add 450, see what you think then.
<xShadowx> gcmonitor mod
<ferram4> Or just add 400 if 2 sig figs is too much
<xShadowx> was another similar mod that 'claims' to help fix gc somewhat
<Bornholio> memgraph and it does help if GC is the problem
<Bornholio> and you have enough memory
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<leudaimon> !tell Pap* I'm seeing there were some changes in the non-proc avionics placement in the early tree. I'll see if I can change the procedural ones to match better... I think the first upper should go to avionics prototypes and the second booster to early avi and probes
<Qboid> leudaimon: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<leudaimon> !tell NathanKell* Fairing tooling (and tooled part) prices are veery high... is this intended?
<Qboid> leudaimon: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Bornholio> yes :P
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<NathanKell> o/
<Qboid> NathanKell: ferram4 left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 02:44:26]: "relevant to our previous discussion on page 346-351 of the pdf: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19710019929.pdf"
<Qboid> NathanKell: leudaimon left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 03:52:39]: "Fairing tooling (and tooled part) prices are veery high... is this intended?"
<NathanKell> leudaimon: Define ‘very high’
<xShadowx> o/
<NathanKell> I juuust turned them down some
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<Pap> o/
<Qboid> Pap: leudaimon left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 03:41:05]: "I'm seeing there were some changes in the non-proc avionics placement in the early tree. I'll see if I can change the procedural ones to match better... I think the first upper should go to avionics prototypes and the second booster to early avi and probes"
<leudaimon> NathanKell, 6k for the fairing base and 5k for the fairings
<ferram4> Not necessarily relevant wrt conic frustums, but it does have math for elliptic ends and some considerations for handling other things and whatnot
<NathanKell> leudaimon: To tool, yes?
<NathanKell> Did you tool them?
<NathanKell> ferram4: Ah, neat!
<leudaimon> yeah, build prices are 76 and 31
<NathanKell> Then that’s fine
<leudaimon> but rollout cost of a RD-101 with 3 biosamples is 1.2k
<NathanKell> sounds about right
<leudaimon> ouch
<leudaimon> 37d build time, from a 4d for a XASR is also heavy
<NathanKell> leudaimon: Check if you have only the right TF dlls, too, for that doubling
<leudaimon> ok, I'll have a look
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<leudaimon> the RP-0 gui is very strange... I can't change the time, only year works, and the other buttons don't look like they are working correctly
<leudaimon> in the TF plugins folder I have: TestFlight.dll TestFlightAPI.dll TestFlightContracts.dll TestFlightContracts.dll.mdb TestFlightCore.dll
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<leudaimon> yeah, I might have something wrong with TF, I didn't transfer tech from the WAC to the XASR, and strangely I had no failures in this career yet
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<leudaimon> well, it's late... I'll grab a fresh install of TF tomorrow... NathanKell if there is some new TF dll I have to download separately, please send me a tell...
<leudaimon> o/
<ferram4> NathanKell, apparently you can use hydrazine... to oxidize pentaborane?
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<NathanKell> !tell leudaimon nope, your usual TF install
<Qboid> NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell> !tell leudaimon which engine precisely?
<Qboid> NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell> ferram4 that’s...freaky
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<NathanKell> Borntosleep: I think I made it unlock all techs on open RD complex \o/
<NathanKell> We’ll see.
<NathanKell> !tell born* yep, now currently-queued nodes appear unlocked whenever you enter R&D.
<Qboid> NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<SpecimenSpiff> oooh, all hail our lord and master
* xShadowx hails
<SpecimenSpiff> NathanKell, is it possible to make parts read-only in the vab? Or perhaps to associate tag data with them that would be persisted?
<NathanKell> eh?
<NathanKell> what do you mean?
<SpecimenSpiff> if either of those is possible, then I see a path to tracking submodules out to the pad
<xShadowx> make controls etc unchangable?
<SpecimenSpiff> say for example I drag a submodule out to into the vab. catch that event, and run through the tree of parts attaching a note "this part is attached to parts x,y,z"
<xShadowx> ie no changing fuel tank
<SpecimenSpiff> then when you tell KCT to build it, it can run through the list and say "yep, this still matches" or "nope, it got edited"
<SpecimenSpiff> and then when you roll out to the pad, we have knowledge if it matches the pad
<SpecimenSpiff> then all you have to do is define the cutoff point where changes are allowed
<SpecimenSpiff> and maybe you let the user do that
<blowfish> how does KCT currently determine how much a craft has changed?
<SpecimenSpiff> presumably its trapping a part drop event
<xShadowx> only thing i can think is make a partmodule that during (submodule) save, grab part stats from various partmodules on the part, save em, at roll out it compares itself
<SpecimenSpiff> ideally I'd like to be have a mechanism where you create a new pad, and up pops a window asking what lv submodule the pad is designed for. then when you build a rocket, we use that tag data on the submodule to verify that your rocket fits the pad. if you can trap submodule load/save and attach data to the parts, that should be possible
<blowfish> honestly it could just save the entire craft and do a recursive compare of the parts and what they're attached to
<SpecimenSpiff> as long as you can define where the lv ends and the payload beings
<SpecimenSpiff> begins*
<SpecimenSpiff> basically say "this is the part of the rocket that the pad cares about" above that, whatever is fine
<SpecimenSpiff> id be fine with letting the user define that threshold honestly, with maybe a reality check based on fraction of mass
<SpecimenSpiff> so just let the user define a given interstage as the top of the lv
<SpecimenSpiff> and as long as nothing below that changes, we can roll it out to that pad
<xShadowx> my style has always been to not edit an LV after i save it, just attach heh
* xShadowx is too lazy to edit
<NathanKell> scrapyard does this on an individual part basis.
<NathanKell> IIRC it knows if you change something.
<NathanKell> How, however, do you make a separation between untagged parts in payload, and untagged parts attached elsewhere?
<NathanKell> I guess you could declare anything ‘below’ the first subassembly PLF base is not payload?
<SpecimenSpiff> if the tree doesnt go through that desingated decoupler, its not ok
<NathanKell> below as in ‘below in the tree’
<xShadowx> a partmodule with a button 'tag as lv' lol
<SpecimenSpiff> I havent looked at a tree, but I would assume its coherent enough that you can find the first tagged part your untagged parts touch. and that tagged part must be the designated decoupler
<SpecimenSpiff> thats a little too restrictive actually, but probably necesary to make it work
<SpecimenSpiff> but this is actually sounding like pure kct changes at this point, is kct a ro-owned mod at this point or do I need to be talking to other people?
<xShadowx> mod idea - 'soft welding' like the welding mod but only for in vab, keeping parts still individual parts, but clicking to move/remove acts as thoughparts a b c are together :)
<xShadowx> ie use on saving a submodule, cant split those parts up anymore
<SpecimenSpiff> it needs ot be a little more than that, otherwise I associate a pad with a collection of 5 parts and make sure I have that 5 part submodule on all my rockets
<SpecimenSpiff> and then ideally you have logic to make the pad build cost relative to the rocket
<SpecimenSpiff> so you can make aerobee pads easily, but a saturn v pad is a huge undertaking
<NathanKell> SpecimenSpiff: THis also doesn’t protect against *remove* parts from a placed subassembly I think?
<NathanKell> And yes, our proxy is a lot of pads, gated by mass. But ideally Delta 3000 and Atlas-Centaur wouldn’t be on the same pad.
<SpecimenSpiff> well, if the tag was "this part has properties y, and is attached to parts a,bc" it does
<NathanKell> Ah, fair.
<NathanKell> Yep, workable
<NathanKell> KCT is not an RO-owned mod, although I’m cooking up a special variant atm
<NathanKell> It’s very tempting to fork it tbh
<SpecimenSpiff> the hard part would be allowing detla variants on the same pad
<SpecimenSpiff> eg 0-5 boosters is ok
<SpecimenSpiff> possibly allow multiple "this is the attach point" tags, and the decouplers are there whether boosters are or not
<ferram4> ALL SHALL BE RO, IN TIME
<xShadowx> ^
<xShadowx> plz add to topic
<SpecimenSpiff> change of topic, I was reading up on wac-corporal, aerobee, etc this afternoon. as best I can determine, aerobee cost $10k in 1957 dollars, and in some years well over a hundred were launched, sometimes multiple in one day, often on consecutive days. the current rp-0 price and rollout seems...excessive
<NathanKell> They’re about 3x that cost in RP-0 yeah?
<NathanKell> ~30 funds rather than 12
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<SpecimenSpiff> id have to double check, but I got the impression I was wll over 100 funds last night
<NathanKell> As to multiple in one day...well, have you tried building a WAC with 1957 level BP/s ?
<NathanKell> err, tried rolling out*
<SpecimenSpiff> I know my simple single stage rd100 lv went to something like 214 days of build time, which seemed way too painful to me
<NathanKell> yep, ya need more upgrades
<SpecimenSpiff> from the book I was reading, I think it was 60 aerobee launches in their first year of production
<lamont> NathanKell: if you want a pre-PEG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-guidance
<SpecimenSpiff> yes, more upgrades would be nice, how do I get them at that point in my career? I did 5 aerobee launches, spent all I could afford on vab upgrades, then it would be nearly a year to build the next rocket in line
<NathanKell> lamont: Interesting!
<SpecimenSpiff> even if thats realistic, its no longer fun
<NathanKell> SpecimenSpiff: What year are you?
<NathanKell> How many launches have you done?
<NathanKell> lamont: Can it be adapted for ascent? I presume so
<SpecimenSpiff> this was start. as I said, I launched 5 aerobees, then tried to launch a russian a-4. each aerobee launch was taking me about a month
<lamont> IDK i just randomly found it last night
<SpecimenSpiff> although I should clarify, closer to an astrobee than aerobee, I added a third stage of 3x boosters
<NathanKell> SpecimenSpiff: Hmm.
<NathanKell> Maaaybe we’re starting with too few upgrades now. Dunno.
<NathanKell> Cross your fingers all!
<SpecimenSpiff> is upgrade points the correct dial, or the ratio between cost and build time?
<SpecimenSpiff> let me fire up ksp and see what those rockets cost
<NathanKell> dang, no work
<NathanKell> SpecimenSpiff: Possibly the best dial is the flat BP cost of building anything
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<SpecimenSpiff> ok, im currently in 9/1951, 16 points spent on build rate. astrobee costs 222 funds and takes 8 days to build, 166 funds to roll out. r-1 costs 2281 funds, 75 days to roll out, and 2595 funds to roll out. the 214 day build was before I spent the 4 upgrade points that flight earned me
<SpecimenSpiff> is it supposed to cost more to roll out than to build?
<SpecimenSpiff> those numbers are about what I'm used to seeing for very first launches, btw. so this version is effectively 16 bp harder than the old version, it seems
<NathanKell> SpecimenSpiff: That sounds like something isn’t tooled.
<NathanKell> Did you tool all parts?
<SpecimenSpiff> I believe so, let me check
<NathanKell> YES!
<SpecimenSpiff> ah, my boattail fairing myst have gone out of spec, I remember tooling it but it was showing me the tool option
<NathanKell> You can only fill parts with crew members trained for them!
<SpecimenSpiff> ooh nifty
<xShadowx> :D
<xShadowx> NathanKell: its own mod? or combined into somethin?;3
<SpecimenSpiff> so fully tooled r-1 is down to 1,140 cost, 52 days build, 1773 rollout cost
<SpecimenSpiff> one fairing boo-boo doubled the cost of the rocket
<NathanKell> sounds about right yeah :]
<NathanKell> xShadowx: I’m hijacking KCT
<NathanKell> and some old stuff magico wrote
<xShadowx> on a side note, one mod Crew Queue auto fills seats with type if crew available, would be nice if worked with it :P
<SpecimenSpiff> last night these costs and times seemed really horrible, but I was only able to play for an hour or so. if keeps going down this fast, might be fine
<SpecimenSpiff> sounds like flight school would want the same submodule tracking logic. pilots aren't trained on the lander can, they're trained on the lem
<NathanKell> SpecimenSpiff: Indeed yes.
<NathanKell> That’s next major release tho not this one :]
<xShadowx> training = spawn test part outside ksc and climb out :P
<xShadowx> must be 'landed in ksc'
<xShadowx> oh, underwater training at beach! simulate zero g!
<NathanKell> Ok, what else do we need to change in KCT?
<xShadowx> the lack of sims :P
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<SpecimenSpiff> how do you roll back a vehicle from the pad? that used to be an option in kct but I dont see it now
<NathanKell> click the * to the left of its name
<SpecimenSpiff> but kct doesnt even show the rocket anymore
<SpecimenSpiff> its on the pad, but kct doesnt tell me about it
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<NathanKell> SpecimenSpiff: Ah, in the flight scene, while still in prelaunch, click the KCT button and choose VAB tab, then ‘recover active vessel’
<NathanKell> SpecimenSpiff: Sorry to be late.
<NathanKell> Was adding global mults :]
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<NathanKell> Well, here we go, the final test
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<github> [RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7Mwz
<github> RP-0/Developmental d9b035f NathanKell: Add real training support. Autogenerated for parts. Later make parts match with a lookup db.
<NathanKell> !tell Maxsimal,Pap,leudaimon,soundnfury,SpecimenSpiff,born* Ok. I have added training!!!! You will need to train pilots before they can be placed in parts. Training is about 60 days per 1000f of unlock cost of a part. All parts with EC 1 have proficiency checks ignored. YOU NEED THIS KCT DLL. Replace yours https://github.com/KSP-RO/KCT/blob/1.2.2-Backports/GameData/KerbalConstructionTime/plugins/
<Qboid> NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell> KerbalConstructionTime.dll?raw=true Also get latest Dev, obvs.
<NathanKell> !tell Maxsimal,Pap,leudaimon,soundnfury,SpecimenSpiff,born* To train a crew member, go to the RP0 button, click astronauts, click training, select a part on the left, enroll crew on the right, click start course. Wait until course completes. Then they will be proficient in that part. You can assign *only* proficient crew to parts in the KCT launch window, others won’t be available.
<Qboid> NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<github> [RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7Mwi
<github> RP-0/Developmental c7f167b NathanKell: Add default utilizations to tanks.
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<Maxsimal> o/
<Qboid> Maxsimal: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 07:52:18]: "Ok. I have added training!!!! You will need to train pilots before they can be placed in parts. Training is about 60 days per 1000f of unlock cost of a part. All parts with EC 1 have proficiency checks ignored. YOU NEED THIS KCT DLL. Replace yours https://github.com/KSP-RO/KCT/blob/1.2.2-Backports/GameData/KerbalConstructionTime/
<Qboid> plugins/"
<Qboid> Maxsimal: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 07:53:25]: "To train a crew member, go to the RP0 button, click astronauts, click training, select a part on the left, enroll crew on the right, click start course. Wait until course completes. Then they will be proficient in that part. You can assign *only* proficient crew to parts in the KCT launch window, others won’t be available."
<ProjectThoth> poke
<Hypergolic_Skunk> \o
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<Maxsimal> !tell NathanKell: Training sounds awesome. There's an RP0 button now? Also, will there be visible data on what parts a crew member is trained in? I don't know what 'EC1' might mean, btw.
<Qboid> Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Maxsimal> !tell NathanKell: Also, I don't think your training formula makes a ton of sense, from what I remember of unlock costs - apollo costs 350,000f to unlock? 60 years of training time to use it then? Even if that was tuned to be faster, I don't think the part piloting complexity mirrors part unlock cost - training to use apollo should be harder than training to use the MPL, but MPL unlock cost is higher.
<Qboid> Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Maxsimal> !tell NathanKell: Thinking about training - I think we should have a per-part training time that we individually tune. I also think we should do it a bit like TF R&D, where there are multiple training times with different funding costs associated - reading about Apollo training, they did seem to spare no expense to set up simulators for those guys. Realistically, the costs should decrease the more often you train astronauts for the same part.
<Qboid> Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<github> [RP-0] ppboyle opened pull request #746: Setting Sounding Low's limit (Developmental...Developmental) https://git.io/v7MbM
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<darsie> hey
<darsie> Wasn't RO/RSS/RP0 already compatible with KSP 1.3?
<darsie> Now it is RO 1.2.2, RSS 1.2.3, RP0 1.2.2.
<darsie> I could downgrade to 1.2.2 ...
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<Probus> Yeah darsie, it is only compatible with 1.2.2 max.
<darsie> ok. thx
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<leudaimon> \o
<Qboid> leudaimon: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 04:49:48]: "which engine precisely?"
<Qboid> leudaimon: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 04:49:19]: "nope, your usual TF install"
<Qboid> leudaimon: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 07:52:18]: "Ok. I have added training!!!! You will need to train pilots before they can be placed in parts. Training is about 60 days per 1000f of unlock cost of a part. All parts with EC 1 have proficiency checks ignored. YOU NEED THIS KCT DLL. Replace yours https://github.com/KSP-RO/KCT/blob/1.2.2-Backports/GameData/KerbalConstructionTime/
<Qboid> leudaimon: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 07:53:25]: "To train a crew member, go to the RP0 button, click astronauts, click training, select a part on the left, enroll crew on the right, click start course. Wait until course completes. Then they will be proficient in that part. You can assign *only* proficient crew to parts in the KCT launch window, others won’t be available."
<Qboid> plugins/"
<Borntosleep> good job NathanKell|AWAY pain point fly away!
<Qboid> Borntosleep: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 05:11:25]: "yep, now currently-queued nodes appear unlocked whenever you enter R&D."
<Qboid> Borntosleep: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 07:52:18]: "Ok. I have added training!!!! You will need to train pilots before they can be placed in parts. Training is about 60 days per 1000f of unlock cost of a part. All parts with EC 1 have proficiency checks ignored. YOU NEED THIS KCT DLL. Replace yours https://github.com/KSP-RO/KCT/blob/1.2.2-Backports/GameData/KerbalConstructionTime/
<Qboid> plugins/"
<Qboid> Borntosleep: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 07:53:25]: "To train a crew member, go to the RP0 button, click astronauts, click training, select a part on the left, enroll crew on the right, click start course. Wait until course completes. Then they will be proficient in that part. You can assign *only* proficient crew to parts in the KCT launch window, others won’t be available."
<Pap> o/
<Qboid> Pap: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 07:52:18]: "Ok. I have added training!!!! You will need to train pilots before they can be placed in parts. Training is about 60 days per 1000f of unlock cost of a part. All parts with EC 1 have proficiency checks ignored. YOU NEED THIS KCT DLL. Replace yours https://github.com/KSP-RO/KCT/blob/1.2.2-Backports/GameData/KerbalConstructionTime/
<Qboid> plugins/"
<Qboid> Pap: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 07:53:25]: "To train a crew member, go to the RP0 button, click astronauts, click training, select a part on the left, enroll crew on the right, click start course. Wait until course completes. Then they will be proficient in that part. You can assign *only* proficient crew to parts in the KCT launch window, others won’t be available."
<Pap> Well, these all sound like great changes! I am going back into the deep, dark world of science experiments today
<Maxsimal> It almost feels like we need a more general version of KCT - since we have R&D for TF parts, astronaut training, and all the KCT stuff happening, and in the future (maybe) science-experiments-over-time, I think post-this-release, it might be good to have a 'management sim' mod that just unifies both the UI and the processing details for it.
<Maxsimal> !tell NathanKell: It almost feels like we need a more general version of KCT - since we have R&D for TF parts, astronaut training, and all the KCT stuff happening, and in the future (maybe) science-experiments&manufacturing-over-time, I think post-this-release, it might be good to have a 'management sim' mod that just unifies both the UI and the processing details for it.
<Qboid> Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<leudaimon> o/ Pap! I mentioned yesterday about updating the node placement of proc. avionics... what is the best way of doing it right now? Just edit https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/blob/Developmental/GameData/RP-0/Tree/ProceduralAvionics.cfg ?
<leudaimon> !tell NathanKell* Most of my issues solved itselves after I reinstalled stuff... still have 2 TF R&D buttons in the WAC though. Also, the default tank utilization values you changed did not apply (Tank-I is still 86)
<Qboid> leudaimon: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Pap> Yes leudaimon that is the best option
<leudaimon> cool
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<leudaimon> Pap, could you remind me where I can find the correct node names?
<Pap> hmmm, they are in the RP0TechTree.cfg file, that is probably the best place (in the RP-0/Tree/)
<leudaimon> yeah, just found it... thanks!
<leudaimon> I might add a new tier for uppers... given there is a non-proc one in the post was era now
<Pap> leudaimon: what was the final discussions with Maxsimal and rsparkyc regarding Procedural Avionics going forward?
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<leudaimon> Pap, we are kind of depending on rsparkyc fixing the issues, or someone else figuring out how to solve it... the utilization slider must be reworked to don't have the weird situation we have right now
<rsparkyc> i know we had talked about removing that for a bit until it can get reworked as well
<rsparkyc> i just haven't had time to mess with it :/
<leudaimon> that's another option rsparkyc
<leudaimon> also, now with payload resource, it would be very nice to be able to add it to the proc avionics parts too
<rsparkyc> removing the slider would also be pretty easy for someone to tackle
<Pap> rsparkyc: So an easy fix would be setting Avionics to occupy 100% of the space in a shape right now?
<rsparkyc> right now it does occupy all the space, the slider adjusts the "efficiency" of the avionics
<leudaimon> ^ that would be the simplest I guess... but you would have a single volume possible for a given tonnage right?
<Pap> Ah
<Pap> And then the different tiers increase the amount of controllable mass with the same size?
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<github> [RP-0] leudaimon opened pull request #747: Adjust Proc. Avionics to keep with non-procedurals (Developmental...patch-3) https://git.io/v7DZe
<rsparkyc> yeah
<leudaimon> that's how it works right now, but the utilization slider allows you to trade-off cost and weight
<leudaimon> only that this trade-off does not work properly
<Maxsimal> We should also change the tank type that the proc avionics are using - ideally to its own tank type, or maybe service module - the biggest problem with it afaik is that the proc battery costs are messing with any ability to tune and size it properly
<Maxsimal> It'd be cool if proc avionics could use it's own tooling values - tooling proc avionics being more expensive than other tanks.
<leudaimon> now that we have different SM tanks, proc avionics could borrow directly from them, with the different tiers. would that be difficult?
<leudaimon> also, leaving part of the SM tank empty to put some payload resources as an option would be nice
<Maxsimal> leudaimon: It would be nice, but to me it's more important to be able to tune the thing appropriately rather than have the nice addition of being able to use 'spare' space.
<leudaimon> sure Maxsimal... do you think the only issue with the utilization slider not trading-off properly is the tank cost?
<Pap> ^^^^^ All of these are great ideas, but nothing can be implemented until down the road when rsparkyc gets a little more time to look at things
<Pap> This is the same issue we keep coming up against right now in RP-0. Great ideas, no one to code them.
<leudaimon> given the nature of proc. avionics, I think the "tank" could have 0 weight... the part is eletronics after all
<Maxsimal> leudaimon: I think rsparkyc's formula probably needs a fix too, I remember there are issues but tbh I forget what his formula was right off the top of my head. That should be an easy fix though.
<Maxsimal> Pap: Yeah I know. I was hoping the tank change might just be a config fix though.
<Pap> Maxsimal: That probably is, it is just a duplicated part
<Pap> The problem with making it duplicate off of another tank is that it will have the ability to store those Fuels. Procedural Battery worked cleanly because only one resource was configured for it
<Maxsimal> Pap: Btw, please please don't you or NK think that just cause I'm suggesting 'nice to haves' that I think they should be worked on, I know coding resources are short, and I'd like to jump in there to help. I know there's always a feeling like there's pressure when someone suggests something, but that's not my intent at all.
<Maxsimal> Pap: Hrmm true. But normal probe cores also store all kinds of fuels anyway, so if we did the 'spare space' thing, that should be good, yes?
<Pap> Maxsimal: I appreciate you saying that! I agree with you that these changes would all be great, we just need to figure out how it will be done. I do not have the coding skills unfortunately. Really, only NK is coding for it right now and he has his ideas of what he is implementing, so he is tied up with that stuff. It is just too bad we don't have others who can contribute and that I don't have the knowledge (yet)
<Maxsimal> Pap: I think the big problem is that the proc avionics code has costs associated as if the whole tank was 100% battery EC, and then rsparkyc lowers the actual EC amount to 10% of what it would normally store. So if the 'eletronics' are low density, as they are with upper stages, the dominant cost of the avionics is the 'battery'
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<Maxsimal> Pap: Yeah some day I'll jump on the coding bandwagon. My biggest problem is life commitments, and that I sleep a reasonable number of hours unlike yourself :P
<Pap> The sleeping is really making you weaker ;)
<Maxsimal> Pap: Blame my gf, I used to sleep less before she kept demanding I come to bed. ;) I'm sure she'll get tired of me someday and I'll get to stay with my PC more.
<Pap> :) Come November, I am going MIA for a long time as baby #2 will be here
<Maxsimal> Yeah I dunno how you manage.
<Maxsimal> But congrats on being a father again!
<Pap> Thanks!
<leudaimon> well, got to go... If I can help with anything in this issue let me know... I don't think I can manage the code though
<leudaimon> o/
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<awang> Looks like IRL VASIMR engines are coming along well. Or at least that's according to the developer's press release
<Bornholio> As much as i love VASIMR they are pretty bad at overstating, plus when i see NASA willing to develop a small nulear power supply I'll see the need for the big one.
<Bornholio> Hope their ISS booster works well too. Avoid a bunch of booster flights
<awang> I mean, it's not entirely unexpected that they really try to sell their tech
<Bornholio> yes but its like fusion always 20 years in the future
<awang> Didn't NASA contract out for development of a nuclear engine?
<awang> True
<Bornholio> not so bad for vasimir
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<awang> That's a rather depressing way of looking at it :P
<Bornholio> nasa has lots of nuclear under its belt all terminated pre flight except snap-10a
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<awang> :(
<awang> NASA pls
<awang> Is SpaceX looking at any interesting new tech besides LOX/Methane?
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<Bornholio> well besides Hydrolox and Methalox everything high ISP is nasty hypergolics. The re-usable upper is what i want to see work
<Bornholio> even just to get parts back to destructively test
<awang> Recovering the upper stage would be interesting
<awang> Wouldn't it require a heat shield of some kind?
<awang> IIRC the first stage used the engines as a heat sheild
<awang> but idk if that would work for a second stage
<awang> Might be interesting to see how far downrange the second stage ends up, too
<awang> Unless they just delay for an orbit
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<Bornholio> my training course for conic cockpit is 359 years 13 hours 20 minutes :)
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<Starwaster> does RO have any support for the FUR rovers?
<egg|afk|egg> !tell NathanKell* so we'll be releasing чебышёв for both 1.2.2 and 1.3 then, and that way once you release RSS for 1.3 you can check it against чебышёв, ensuring that there is no principia gap
<Qboid> egg|afk|egg: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Starwaster> and no, the SPace X engines are not used as heat shields, they propulsively decelerate to safe speeds. (they're not going very fast as it is)
<awang> Ah
<awang> Oops
<Starwaster> I think the source of that is that the nozzles have an ablative lining, but that's to protect them from the exhaust
<awang> Is that in addition to or instead of regenerative cooling?
<Starwaster> we might be thinking of different engines, I dont think they'd need both
<awang> I wouldn't know
<Starwaster> ok let's see... merlin is regeneratively cooled
<Starwaster> ok FIRST Merlin had an ablatively cooled nozzle
<awang> Ah
<Pap> Bornholio: That seems like a long time :)
<Pap> Starwaster: What is FUR?
<Starwaster> FUR = Feline Utility Rover
<Starwaster> (so, FUR rover is redundant...)
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<Starwaster> not finding documents on the NTRS servers liquids me off....
<Starwaster> CobaltWolf, show our contestants what prizes await them!
<Starwaster> (hmmm I'd guess... Kestrel?)
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<CobaltWolf> And no, not a Kestrel
<CobaltWolf> older
<Rokker> CobaltWolf: Europa!
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* xShadowx loves the rocket but gives it 1 star due to missing download link ;3
<xShadowx> purty engine detail
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<Bornholio> starwaster what doc are you looking for?
<Bornholio> better to be liquided off than liquided on
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<CobaltWolf> Rokker: close!
<Bornholio> I found this doc iteresting since its focus was scaleing engines https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20090001888.pdf
<CobaltWolf> oh, well the rocket is sorta Europa... it's a Blue Streak with the first stage of the Black Arrow (yay KSP scaling?)
<Rokker> oh
<Rokker> cool
<Rokker> CobaltWolf: what can it carry
<Rokker> CobaltWolf: I've just discovered an interesting launcher
<Rokker> blue streak-centaur
<Bornholio> or the brown srtreak-ceentaur with man rating :)
<Bornholio> and yet again typing sideways on a crooked keyboard fails me again and i wonder why.
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<Starwaster> bornholio 19790048206
<Starwaster> Space Shuttle ascent guidance, navigation, and control
<Bornholio> its paywalled, have one of the edu guys grab it if you can't
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<Maxsimal> o/
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<NathanKell|WORK> CobaltWolf: Black Prince!?
<Qboid> NathanKell|WORK: leudaimon left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 13:48:32]: "Most of my issues solved itselves after I reinstalled stuff... still have 2 TF R&D buttons in the WAC though. Also, the default tank utilization values you changed did not apply (Tank-I is still 86)"
<Qboid> NathanKell|WORK: egg|afk|egg left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 15:37:25]: "so we'll be releasing чебышёв for both 1.2.2 and 1.3 then, and that way once you release RSS for 1.3 you can check it against чебышёв, ensuring that there is no principia gap"
<NathanKell|WORK> egg: We must not have, we cannot afford, a principia gap.
<NathanKell|WORK> Maxsimal: Yes, absolutely we'll have lookups for training costs. Just this mult works ok for the X-1 cockpit and Mercury and Vostok so I pushed it
<Bornholio> also have double buttons on wac
<NathanKell|WORK> Bornholio: thanks, leudaimon too. I'll try to figure out what's going on when I get home. Meanwhile can you upload the ROAerobeeSustainer portion of your configcahce?
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<Maxsimal> NathanKell: Gotcha! So I put in that .dll for the KCT branch, and am getting latest off dev from RO and RP-0 - anything else I should update?
<egg> NathanKell|WORK: eggsactly
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<NathanKell|WORK> Maxsimal: Re-get RF, I think I rebuilt that for some reason
<Maxsimal> NathanKell: The dropbox .dll?
<NathanKell|WORK> yeah
<Maxsimal> NathanKell|Work: Done, now to do some testing. Not sure I'll even have anything astronaut-worthy at the moment though.
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<Pap> o/
<Maxsimal> o/ pap
<Pap> Maxsimal: you get to finally play? Nice!
<Pap> Is it worth it for me to drive 11 hours round-trip (total drive time) to see the eclipse in totality?
<Maxsimal> Pap: Have you seen an eclipse before?
<Pap> Saw a partial when I was younger. Last one is the US was 1979 and I wasn't born yet. Next one is in 2024, also 6 hours away.
<Maxsimal> Hrmm, sounds like a plan then. Could see if they have any last minute flights to the carolinas though.
<leudaimon|work> o/
<leudaimon|work> if I had the opportunity I definitely would drive 11h for that
<awang> Bornholio: Still need that paper?
<Bornholio> starwaster was trying to get it
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<awang> Hm
<awang> Looks like ResearchGate isn't as straightforward as I thought
<Pap> I requested the full text of the paper, will let oyu know if it is approved
<leudaimon|work> what paper?
<awang> Same here
<leudaimon|work> I'm at a university now, maybe I have access
<Pap> A Space Shuttle Guidance paper
<awang> The authors are going to be so confused
<Bornholio> starwaster Lamont has a paper copy of that i believe
<awang> 3 or 4 requests all around the same time
<Pap> Probably the first time it has been requested in months, lol
<lamont> heh, i went to the engr library yesterday and photocopied it
<dxdy> if you have university access you can try getting it from the arc site they have institutional subscriptions
<Pap> link dxdy ?
<dxdy> that is if it's the same actually^^
<dxdy> just looked around for the title
<lamont> no different paper
<leudaimon|work> that's what I was looking for, the publisher site has only from 2006
<lamont> the 1979 paper isn’t even available behind a paywall, the journals scanned articles don’t go that far back
<Pap> I tried before to get access to ARC, so I signed up for a student membership of the AAIC and still didn't get access!
<leudaimon|work> too few institutions subscribed in their database
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<leudaimon|work> lol, I should be looking for ecological beta-diversity papers not ascent guidance ones >.>
<leudaimon|work> it's fun to look at the papers that cite this one: https://scholar.google.com.br/scholar?cites=11955415928933666629&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0,5&hl=en
<leudaimon|work> man, there is a Journal of Guidance Control and Dynamics
<Maxsimal> NathanKell|WORK: I'm getting this warning on my screen a lot, on the top right, when I click parts in VAB - weird, especially since all my tanks are tooled. http://imgur.com/a/34IH6
<CobaltWolf> Forgot to come back to this... NathanKell|WORK Rokker The engine I posted was the RZ20, the Rolls Royce cryogenic engine. Nearly as I can tell it would've been maybe twice as powerful as RL-10?
<CobaltWolf> and yeah, the launcher I posted was sort of a pseudo Black Prince... Beale only has the first Black Arrow stage in game right now
<Rokker> CobaltWolf: boy there is almost nothing on the RZ20 like at all
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<awang> o/
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<awang> Hmmm
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<awang> New planets discovered around tau ceti
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<Pena> nice
<Rokker> NathanKell: oi
<xShadowx> that was his away nick being d/c :P
<CobaltWolf> Rokker: yeah it was fun to find stuff... because there wasn't anytihng...
<Rokker> CobaltWolf: maybe its just a fairy tale engine that RR engineers tell their interns when they put them to bed at night
<CobaltWolf> it was test fired twice
<Rokker> im sure thats what the fairy tail book says
<Rokker> :P
<Bornholio> Royce posted any information on something they don't sell? likely
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<NathanKell|WORK> Maxsimal: What part is that from?
<NathanKell|WORK> Maxsimal: and what modules are on the part per the partlist tooltip modules list?
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<NathanKell|WORK> \o/
<Pap> I think this new science system is going to be really nice
<Pap> But holy shit is it a deep hole of information
<awang> Pap: RealScience?
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: next stop on the GUI train, if you're willing, is a tab to list all toolings. Then we can make toolings have maintenance, and the ability to untool things.
<NathanKell|WORK> Then you have to decide what toolings to keep active
<awang> Oh yeah
<awang> What exactly are the tooling costs for?
<NathanKell|WORK> I also need to add some modifiers so you get a bit of a rebate if you already have the diameter tooled for a different type of thing
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<awang> I've seen it mentioned a lot but never quite understood what it was
<NathanKell|WORK> awang: Think about it like entry costs for proc parts
<NathanKell|WORK> We generally use entry costs to represent R&D and setting up manufacturing
<Pap> awang: Nope, but something that will work nicely while we wait for someone to finish RealScience
<NathanKell|WORK> but for proc parts/fairings/whatever, you could create any part you like and not pay a dime of that.
<awang> Ah
<awang> Makes sense
<awang> Is it applied once for a particular set of dimensions/types?
<soundnfury> The startup picture with the S-II separating from the S-IC has a little bit of UI in the top left corner
<soundnfury> needs shoop
<awang> Pap: I'm tempted to try to work on it some
<awang> Sleep be damned
<awang> lamont: Do you use Xamarin for modding?
<Pap> awang: 5 hours is enough, 6 hours is a lot, you should be good with that knowledge :)
<lamont> no
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<lamont> vim
<soundnfury> NathanKell|WORK: hmmm. perhaps, but not tonight
* soundnfury gives lamont an ed
<lamont> hard mode
<awang> Pap: Sounds good to me
<awang> Until classes start
<awang> lamont: lol
<awang> I normally do the same here
<awang> But idk how compiling C# on mac works
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<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: np
<lamont> gotta install mono
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: I have more to do on training first anyway
<awang> Does mono have something like gradle/cmake/make/etc. which takes care of the actual compilation details?
<awang> mono --version
<awang> Dangit
<lamont> make works fine
<awang> You don't need .sln files then?
<Pap> Nice, we have permission from Coatl Aerospace and BDB to use their models
<soundnfury> ummm, training time for X-1 cockpit is apparently 359 years.
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<awang> Oh huh
<awang> That's going to be really helpful
<lamont> that makefile works fine on osx/mono, and i think should work on linux
<leudaimon|Work> Pap, what is the design of this new science system you are developing?
<lamont> oh yeah definitely works on linux because that’s how jenkins builds the dll
<awang> soundnfury: I could have sworn someone else said that too but it's not showing up in my logs
<awang> lamont: Great!
<awang> Guess I'm stealing that
<awang> Or at least parts
<lamont> and i’ve never figured out what *.sln files really do other being some kind of IDE turd files, which yeah since i use vim i don’t think i need/use at all...
<lamont> and yeah, i’ve stolen bits of that makefile before as well
<Pap> leudaimon|Work: It is nothing super fancy, but it works in a progression. So there are different tiers of some experiments. So I'll use Mass Spectrometry as the example...
<Pap> leudaimon|Work: We have Ion Mass Spectrometer (10% of science), Neutral Mass Spectrometer (25% of Science), Gamma Ray Spectrometer (50% of Science), Quadropole Mass Spectrometer (75% of Science), Gas Chromatograph-Mass Spectrometer (100% of science)
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: eh? That's...weird. It should be ~60 days.
<Pap> They unlock at different times and encourage players to send multiple missions (or to wait for the better experiment) to different planets, The Moon, etc
<xShadowx> lamont: sln = solution files, visual studio (not sure if else) uses a solution, to group up projects
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: I'm at work, but feel free to check the code and push a fix.
<NathanKell|WORK> OH
<NathanKell|WORK> OH
<NathanKell|WORK> OH
<NathanKell|WORK> I know what I did wrong
<NathanKell|WORK> I used entry cost not cost.
<NathanKell|WORK> Heh.
<lamont> no hablo windows
<NathanKell|WORK> So no wonder it's extreme.
* xShadowx pulls the chain to turn on the light bulb over NathanKell's head
<NathanKell|WORK> ooops :]
<leudaimon|Work> nice Pap! probably the same for cameras, x-ray detectors, etc. right? will be interesting, but I guess a balancing hell >.>
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: can you change the factor from 5....whatever to something 1/2000th that?
<NathanKell|WORK> it's in CrewHandler.cs
<soundnfury> 5177?
<soundnfury> (so, 2.5885 then)
<NathanKell|WORK> Yeah, go with 2.6
<xShadowx> lamont: for the most part you dont need solutions in windows either, as said just a way to group / control multiple projects, TF for example which has half dozen diff projects, nice to have em all together :)
<lamont> yeah i just like to give windows shit
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<soundnfury> right, restarting now
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: wait 359 days or years?
<NathanKell|WORK> you said years but I think maybe you meant days?
<Pap> leudaimon|Work: exactly, right now we have the following that are tiered: Photographs (spy satellties), Mass Spectrometry, Cosmic Ray Science, SIGINT, Imaging Spectrometry, Infrared Radiometers, Magnetometer (only 2 tiers), Orbital Imaging (Digital Images from other planets)
<soundnfury> no, years
<NathanKell|WORK> ah, ok
<NathanKell|WORK> then this will be correct
<soundnfury> let us hope so :)
<awang> lamont: I'm going over to the dark side
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<lamont> i’ve gone over to so many dark sides now i’ve lost count…
<leudaimon|Work> very nice Pap!
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<soundnfury> NathanKell|WORK: nnnnno, it still says "359 years 13 hours 20 minutes" -_-
<soundnfury> I wonder if it has anything to do with having updated the DLL _after_ unlocking the part
<soundnfury> could that mean it has a bogus saved entry cost?
<soundnfury> nvm, that doesn't make sense, just reread how the code works
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: did you start the course already?
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: or is it on the offered list?
<soundnfury> on the offered list
<soundnfury> but I had started it and then cancelled it already
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<soundnfury> curiously, if I calculate what the original code (with 5177) should produce, it is 359 days 13 hours 20 minutes
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: that's weird. Check your sfs to see if it's saving data there?
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: I agree that's why I asked if you meant days not years, cuz I did that calc :]
<soundnfury> suggesting that KSPUtil.PrintDateDelta() is just broken
<NathanKell|WORK> Or the sigfigs I'm passing are wrong
<soundnfury> ?
<soundnfury> NathanKell|WORK: don't see anything in the sfs from any searches I could think of to do.
<NathanKell|WORK> Oh right sigfigs are for PrintTime
<NathanKell|WORK> maybe it's date delta that's screwed then
<NathanKell|WORK> can check how we implement it in RSSDateFormatter
<soundnfury> ah and the reason it didn't change is because I copied the wrong DLL across to my install
<Maxsimal> NathanKell: The highlighted tank was a tank 1
<soundnfury> (from GameData/Plugins rather than Source/bin)
<Maxsimal> NathanKell: but the error is coming up wheenver I right click a part on this rocket
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<NathanKell|WORK> Bornholio: sure enough, double modules
<NathanKell|WORK> will fix this evening
<NathanKell|WORK> soundnfury: Hah yeah that would do it
<Bornholio> didn't see to inflict anything tragic, i did notice the very long training time also
<NathanKell|WORK> Yeah, it's screwy. Will fix that too when I get home, set up the dictionary
<NathanKell|WORK> see y'all later, o/
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<Ophidius> Hi. If I wanted to offer some help, what would I do?
<Bornholio> what would you like to work on?
<Bornholio> can you model?
<Ophidius> Art isn't my thing. I was a database engineer. So scripting, coding would be better.
<Ophidius> Sonmething simple to start with because the size of this thing scares me.
<Bornholio> points to Pap and NathanKell
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<Pap> Ophidius: Is there anything in particular that you would say you are most interested in?
<Ophidius> Not too sure. What kind of things need doing?
<Bornholio> never ending testing :P
<dxdy> maybe have a look at that github todo issue
<dxdy> that has a good overview
<Ophidius> I'll take a look. Thanks
<Bornholio> what version of RO/RP-0 are you running
<Ophidius> Release atm
<Ophidius> I could set up dev version
<Bornholio> try out master at least, we have a pretty aggresive Dev branch right now
<Ophidius> I've tinkered with other peoples mods before, but I'm pretty clueless about the workflow
<Pap> There is a partially finished mod RealScience that will probably need a lot of work. There is Procedural Avionics mod that needs some tweaking, there is Issue RP0#680, There is the need for looking at Strategia and how to implement it into the mod
<Qboid> [#680] title: Current To-Do List | I have started a to-do list of things that I know need to be completed, I was going to keep this locally, but it doesn't make any sense to do that.... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/680
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<Bornholio> !Tell NathanKell now that you fixed the KCT Science node thing, is there a way to Note that they are still not granted inside the R&D scene, maybe turn the icon Red instead of green or Put an X instead of an available parts Circle note
<Qboid> Bornholio: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<SpecimenSpiff> There is always a crying to need to research costs and such on stuff later in the tech tree and fill that out
<Qboid> SpecimenSpiff: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 07:52:18]: "Ok. I have added training!!!! You will need to train pilots before they can be placed in parts. Training is about 60 days per 1000f of unlock cost of a part. All parts with EC 1 have proficiency checks ignored. YOU NEED THIS KCT DLL. Replace yours https://github.com/KSP-RO/KCT/blob/1.2.2-Backports/GameData/KerbalConstructionTime/
<Qboid> SpecimenSpiff: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [10.08.2017 07:53:25]: "To train a crew member, go to the RP0 button, click astronauts, click training, select a part on the left, enroll crew on the right, click start course. Wait until course completes. Then they will be proficient in that part. You can assign *only* proficient crew to parts in the KCT launch window, others won’t be available."
<Qboid> plugins/"
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<Ophidius> @SpecimenSpiff Yes, that sound like a good slow start. I was thinking that and testflight configs.
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<Pap> Ophidius: Sounds good! We welcome all the help we can get. If you wanted to look at TestFlight for other parts (other than engines) we have long talked about how that is sorely missing
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<Ophidius> Pap: If you guys don't mind me asking questions to start with I'd be happy to look at it.
<Ophidius> For example, how to determine reliabilty for an engine/part which has never failed.
<Pap> Ophidius: Let me get you the formula
<Ophidius> Theres a formula \o/
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<soundnfury> Ophidius: something something Beta distribution something bayes ;)
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<Pap> Ophidius: Still here?
<SpecimenSpiff> I thought that formula was derived by running a small rodent through a represantative turbine and counting the parts?
<Ophidius> Yes. Bayesian estimation?
<Pap> I added a couple of notes and I have to run, but can explain the whole thing later, sorry I don't have more time now!
<soundnfury> Ophidius: yeah, the Beta distribution is the conjugate prior to the Bernoulli distribution
<soundnfury> so if you assume that failures are independent with constant p,
<Ophidius> pap: thanks. It's more than enough to be getting on with
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<soundnfury> and most people take a prior of either Β(1,1), Β(½,½) or Β(0,0) (that last one is an improper prior and is a bit controversial)
<soundnfury> and for each success you add one to α and for each failure you add one to β, and then you get an appropriate estimator from the posterior (e.g. maximum likelihood, or umvu)
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<Pap|AFK> soundnfury: do you have a link to what you are describing?
<Ophidius> I think it's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_distribution#Bayes.27_prior_probability_.28Beta.281.2C1.29.29
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<soundnfury> Ophidius: yup, that
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<Ophidius> Been a long time since I did any statistics, but it seems simple enough. I'll have a look over some other configs and see if I can come up with something.
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<soundnfury> orbit in dec '53 on my 2×A9 monstrosity
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<awang> First RealScience PR in a while: makefile -> Makefile
<awang> Priorities
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<soundnfury> :D
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<SRBuchanan> Hey, what's up with the reported failure on the latest development build of RP-0?
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<awang> Does KSPUtil.dll exist any more?
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<awang> It's referenced in RealScience's .csproj, but nothing matching *ksputil* (case insensitive) is present
<awang> And at least for 1.1 a reference to KSPUtil had to be added, so...?
<awang> And RenderingManager has been removed entirely?
<xShadowx> ksputil was a split off from assembly-csharp
<xShadowx> it went bye bye
<xShadowx> stuff should be in assembly-csharp
<xShadowx> no clue what RenderingManager is tho :P
<awang> Huh
<awang> Well that's one more thing gone
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<Pap|AFK> soundnfury: I am finally considering giving Telemachus a try. Any advice?