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<soundnfury>
ferram4: s/flour/fluor
<Qboid>
soundnfury thinks ferram4 meant to say: The M-1 used fluorine injection for ignition?!
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: you could try to break my GUI, I'm sure there will be bugs in there
<leudaimon>
ok soundnfury! I'll download the latest builds and try to break stuff
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<leudaimon>
btw, do I need to redownload the KCT or RF dlls? my versions are from last thursday
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<Pap>
Leudaimon yes, I think some things changed in there.
<leudaimon>
ok!
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<leudaimon>
wow, lots of new tabs in the GUI soundnfury
<leudaimon>
soundnfury, my decoupler tooling is stated as 0.00m x 0.00m... given decouplers have no lenght, and I tooled it with 0.3m, I think it's bugged
<leudaimon>
about available courses, it would be good to know how to unlock them, maybe show in the gui in the same way as engine cfgs still locked, in which it shows "lack tech for XXX" and when you mouseover it shows which tech unlocks it
<leudaimon>
in a more general comment, I don't think it's totally realistic that a given node is unlocked before you are able to train people, considering how these things happened in parallel during the different programmes
<xShadowx>
so......ask KCT if tech node is researching, if so have training unlocked?
<leudaimon>
xShadowx, that would be nice
<leudaimon>
but I think too difficult...
<xShadowx>
no clue not my area, just putting the idea out for mr dev :P
<leudaimon>
I think only NK would be able to say whether it's possible given what KCT allows
<leudaimon>
soundnfury, not really a bug, but that parenthesis after the D M Y buttons seems very out of place... maybe if you make the buttons smaller, only with D M Y instead of the whole words it's less strange
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: hmm, I see decouplers reading 1.20 × 0.00m
<soundnfury>
in any case, that bit's NK's code, pester him :P
<leudaimon>
lol
<soundnfury>
I only display that string, not generate it ;)
<leudaimon>
I had a started save, went for a fresh one now, let's see if it works
<soundnfury>
when you say "available courses" and "unlock them", I'm not quite sure what you mean
<soundnfury>
maybe I have an old version of something, but I thought courses became available when the corresponding part (e.g. X1 Cockpit) was unlocked
<leudaimon>
yeah, I think that's what happens... but I don't know exactly how it happens... if you had all possible courses listed there, and showed which ones are unlocked by turning them into buttons, and then the ones you didn't unlock yet were shown but unclickable it would be nice
<soundnfury>
but isn't there a 1:1 correspondence between "courses" and "crewable parts"?
<soundnfury>
it seems to me like if you're trying to build a Mercury mission, you _know_ which technode the Mercury pod is in
<leudaimon>
I didn't know it was that simple... I thought there were more courses than only the crewable parts
<soundnfury>
idk, I just don't see the use of it, and it seems like it'd clutter up the UI with a huge list of courses most of which are irrelevant to what you want to do
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: I think there will be in the future, but when we know what they'll be like, we can worry about UI then
<soundnfury>
(the bridge is too well guarded)
<leudaimon>
if that is the case, you are definitely right
<github>
[RP-0] ec429 opened pull request #755: Improve UI for untooled parts (Developmental...maintUI) https://git.io/v7AVc
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<SpecimenSpiff>
o/
<soundnfury>
ø
<leudaimon>
yeah soundnfury, the decoupler tooling was buggy probably because I had an old save... It's working right in a new one
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<leudaimon>
Pap, NathanKell found a bug with ProcWings... a small Aerobee-like wing costs -0.1 according to the "show wing data" button
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<soundnfury>
leudaimon: right but it should just show dia. and not × 0.00m :/
<soundnfury>
and, small wings have been costing -0.1 for aaaages
<SpecimenSpiff>
I plan to make a config file for base, recommended, and suggested of the full suite later this week
<soundnfury>
I think some of them might weigh -0.1 too if they're thin enough
<leudaimon>
soundnfury, haven't clicked that button in ages too... didn't remember that
<leudaimon>
about the parts for which length does not apply, it would be good not to show it
<leudaimon>
during flight there is no RP0 GUI, right?
<SpecimenSpiff>
eventually my ksp will finish loading and i'll be able to answer that
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<SpecimenSpiff>
did rcs get nerfed? I'm used to putting about 6k of nitrogen in an early rocket, and this one went through 20k in about one second...
<SpecimenSpiff>
and is it correct that we get the naa-75 without also getting an lr-101 or other means of roll control?
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<blowfish>
NAA-75 = redstone? Nozzle vanes should provide roll control
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<soundnfury>
leudaimon: right, only in spacecentre and editor
<leudaimon>
all ok then
<leudaimon>
about astronauts and training... have professions been made irrelevant now? also, I got 2 engineers in this career, I didn't remember it being random
<Bornholio>
kerbal renamer does that
<SpecimenSpiff>
9650m/sec of dV on the pad, first satellite attempt is go
<leudaimon>
weird, in my memory the first four kept the original roles
<Bornholio>
I have four pilots right now
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<SpecimenSpiff>
Cry 'Agathorn!' and let slip the cluster of failure...
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<Pap>
o/
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<SpecimenSpiff>
yay, orbit!
<SpecimenSpiff>
193x2.06Mm in december 1953
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<SpecimenSpiff>
agena engine is in the basic avionics and probes node?
<Pap>
no, that is the Bus
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<NathanKell>
yo
<SpecimenSpiff>
that what I assumed was intended, but its clearly labeled as the agena engine
<Pap>
o/
<NathanKell>
as suspected, I think that’s the bug
<NathanKell>
ECM parts only
<NathanKell>
gonna push an RF fix
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<NathanKell>
Pap: The LR79s in the tree sheet are set to S-3D not S-3
<Pap>
Oh, you were talking entryCosts?
<Pap>
I thought you meant the Engine Config default
<NathanKell>
I did mean that
<NathanKell>
I was wrong as to where the bug was :]
<Pap>
Ahhhh
<Pap>
Then my mistake
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<NathanKell>
Naw, I didn’t realize that might be the source of the issue
<Pap>
I will accept my firing in a dignified manner
<NathanKell>
Happily in looking in configcache I spotted it right away
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<NathanKell>
Pap: Are you in the midst of something on the sheet? I don’t want to mess with filters if you are
<Pap>
Nope, clear it out
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<NathanKell>
ok, got them squared away I think
<NathanKell>
Pap: When you have a sec, can you make each successive RD-10x config require its previous config (in column D)
<NathanKell>
Like what I have just done for the LR79/89/105
<NathanKell>
so e.g. RD-107-8D74K would require RD-107-8D74-1959
<Pap>
in addition to what is there already? Just another , add?
<NathanKell>
yeah
<NathanKell>
so you can’t skip from the 1958 model to the 1965 model without paying for the intervening ones :]
<SpecimenSpiff>
Pap, since you doubted me, I just double checked. Quite clearly labeled as the XLR81 Agena (vacuum) engine, in the avionics node
<SpecimenSpiff>
want a screenshot?
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7AP4
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 40c4060 NathanKell: Fix S-3D->S-3, fix Rocketdyne progression, change some entry costs on RD-103, A-6, LR101.
<NathanKell>
SpecimenSpiff: From which mod?
<NathanKell>
btw RF dll updated
<SpecimenSpiff>
bluedog
<NathanKell>
should fix entry costs not being correctly debited.
<NathanKell>
leudaimon ping ^
<SpecimenSpiff>
in Basic Avionics and Probes
<leudaimon>
thanks NathanKell!
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell closed pull request #755: Improve UI for untooled parts (Developmental...maintUI) https://git.io/v7AVc
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7APQ
<github>
RP-0/Developmental e3e891f NathanKell: Push da binaries
<Pap>
Done nath
<Pap>
NathanKell:
<SpecimenSpiff>
So I was wondering as I drove home this afternoon: if RP-0 is being renamed to RP-1 to designate the degree of change, is going to be an actual split, or just a pure rename and RP-0 is no more?
<NathanKell>
Well, the problem is (and maybe someone who knows github better than I can help here) -- how do we preserve repo history?
<Qboid>
borntosleep: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Pap>
o/
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
\o\
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<Pap>
Only 2 more days of fun lefy Hypergolic_Skunk
* Hypergolic_Skunk
kicks Pap onto an Escape-trajectory :( :P
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: but tbh, I'm very excited. I started to feel really useless. also, Saturday I'll check out a room in Amsterdam.. if I get it, it will be the long-awaited return that I was hoping for for years..
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<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: I hear you. I was unemployed for almost six months one time. The first month is great (as long as you can afford it), and then you start to feel useless like you said
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
exactly
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
until then, I'mma have me some fun with a Principia-boosted RP-0 career :P apart from the slightly laggy Space Center, it's all good till now...
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
(have only launched propeller planes and sounding rockets so far..)
<Pap>
lol
<Pap>
Want to try out the new science system while you are at it?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
why not :D
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
do you happen to have the link to the new RSS, as well? or is that bound to crash things?
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: The new RSS should work as well
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ok. not sure where to find it, though..
<borntosleep>
see RO/RSS wiki I put paps scaled RSS texture link in there
<Pap>
I need to hide all the landing gear before I push this update
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:D
<borntosleep>
why no landing gera?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
because he's a veritable sadist
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<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: You will need to download DMagic Orbital Science
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I have it
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
or do I need to d/l a newer one?
<Pap>
nope
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<github>
[RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7xoH
<github>
RP-0/Developmental e9e5ba1 Pap: MAJOR SCIENCE OVERHAUL...
<Pap>
!tell Hypergolic_Skunk, NathanKell*, Born*, Leud* This is a save breaking save. Also, make sure you have DMagic Orbital Science installed. Please give me all feedback to make the system better!
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: It is live
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
sweet :) thank you!
<Qboid>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Pap left a message for you in #RO [17.08.2017 13:59:44]: "NathanKell*, Born*, Leud* This is a save breaking save. Also, make sure you have DMagic Orbital Science installed. Please give me all feedback to make the system better!"
<Pap>
I don't think that tell is going to work
<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* The science overhaul (Part 1) is live. This is a save breaking update. Also, make sure you have DMagic Orbital Science installed. Please give me all feedback to make the system better!
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
!tell *born The science overhaul (Part 1) is live. This is a save breaking update. Also, make sure you have DMagic Orbital Science installed. Please give me all feedback to make the system better!
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
!tell leud* The science overhaul (Part 1) is live. This is a save breaking update. Also, make sure you have DMagic Orbital Science installed. Please give me all feedback to make the system better!
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
Did I miss anyone?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
KSP starting up now
* Pap
fingers crossed
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<Theysen>
Pap, did you write kute kerbalized and kunny science definitions for every experiment? ^_^
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<Pap>
Theysen: I wrote at least one boring, generic description for each. :)
<Theysen>
good :D
<Theysen>
I already take bets on the amount of people who will be hopelessly overwhelmed with the future of rp-0 :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ok, had to restart a second time (my own fault) but now it loaded.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: is the Film Return Camera experiment supposed to be available right away?
<Theysen>
I'd think so.
<Theysen>
but he might as well have broken something, or since it's you... :P :P
<leudaimon|Work>
cool Pap! that's awesome
<Qboid>
leudaimon|Work: Pap left a message for you in #RO [17.08.2017 14:01:26]: "The science overhaul (Part 1) is live. This is a save breaking update. Also, make sure you have DMagic Orbital Science installed. Please give me all feedback to make the system better!"
<leudaimon|Work>
If I get some time tonight I'll give it a look
* Hypergolic_Skunk
straps Theysen to his A-4
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk it is now called Early Film Camera, and yes it should be available from the start
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
cool!
<leudaimon|Work>
btw soundnfury: didn't mention yesterday, but the addition of prices of the untooled parts is nice. It would be awesome if you could also add the tooled price of the tank
<Theysen>
the Film Return we had so far was based on the spy stuff I assume
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Theysen: cool!
<awang>
Pap: Is the science overhaul still waiting on me to get RealScience up and running?
<Theysen>
the more the better :P
<Theysen>
firing up KSP i want to check it out
<Theysen>
nathan can start another career to test then I assume XD
<Pap>
awang: no it is not, that will be completely separate update
<Theysen>
Pap, science rewards and all work on 'hard' with the new tree I assume?
<Pap>
Theysen: they should. At least up through a crewed Moon landing. Values are similar
<Theysen>
Alright, after outer planets flyby you don't worry anyways :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I've just noticed a problem caused by RP-0 recovery of planes saving those planes vertically, not horizontally:
<Theysen>
what?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
when you edit that plane and put it into its normal attitude, just that bit of editing adds days and days to when it can be used again
<Theysen>
lol
<Theysen>
how would that even oO
<Pap>
Theysen: that is correct about the film experiments. They are now based on the Spy Satellite technology. There is a new experiment Visible Imaging that represents the orbital imaging done. Earliest parts are from the Explorer 6, Luna 3 Era that can fully transmit back their science. The film experiment requires returning to fully get the science.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
sorry, meant KCT, not RP0
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
just flipping the plane to the horizontal adds 16 days ^
<Theysen>
what is the recommended Funds Return on the hard preset these days? am I correct I heard NathanKell|AWAY on his stream say 300% ?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
granted, very early career, no upgrades, but still..
<Theysen>
that's stupid
<Pap>
Yes Theysen 300%
<Theysen>
Awesome. this and new rssve and all will make for a good evening
<Theysen>
inb4 bug galore /s
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<awang>
Pap: Oh good. I was worried that I was holding something up
<awang>
I just finished moving in, and classes start in 5 days or so, so I should have a good amount of time to bang my head against the wall getting RealScience to work
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<Theysen>
I assume not having the avionics window means I fucked something up =
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<Pap>
Theysen: did you add a control part? Doesnt pop up unless you do
<Theysen>
the sounding rocket one like usual
<Theysen>
alt I doesn't give me anything either
<Theysen>
so I asked
<Pap>
Figured you knew that, but always have to ask as the first question in IT, "Is the computer on?"
<Theysen>
no no :D
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<NathanKell|AWAY>
Theysen avionics now in RP0 window. Click RP0 button on app launcher
<Qboid>
NathanKell|AWAY: borntoflee left a message for you in #RO [13.08.2017 18:59:02]: "you rock thanks for the colored R&D icons change. very helpful"
<Qboid>
NathanKell|AWAY: Pap left a message for you in #RO [17.08.2017 14:01:09]: "The science overhaul (Part 1) is live. This is a save breaking update. Also, make sure you have DMagic Orbital Science installed. Please give me all feedback to make the system better!"
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Woot
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<borntosleep>
wishlist: feature diable settings for RP-0 additions. Asking the improbable, its what i do best
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<Theysen>
wait a sec: In RP-1 ? Pap
<Theysen>
Grind mode on: encourages players to send multiple missions to different planetary bodies and biomes to gather all the science available.
<Theysen>
this reads all very very well and thought through
<Theysen>
you're a machine man
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<Pap>
Theysen: it has been discussed that it might be worth it to change the name with the major changes at this point. That is a nod to that
<Pap>
Thanks for the compliment!
<Theysen>
RP-1 fueled gameplay, haha
<Bornholio>
there is a serious learning curve from current relaease->master->dev; Whole new contract systems, tech trees, major feature and cost changes, massive
<Bornholio>
paradox would have charged me 20 bucks four times by now
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:D
<Pap>
Bornholio that is one of the greatest comments I have ever read
<Bornholio>
:) gald you're amused. I'm usually a paradox early adopter, so i've paid them my share.
<Bornholio>
glad
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
"oh hey, we made this WW2 tactics game in which you can play Germany. and here is our DLC called 'Blitzkrieg'" :3
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
*strategic, not tactics
<leudaimon|Work>
Pap, just saw the science wiki, you are awesome!!
<Pap>
Thanks leudaimon|Work !
<leudaimon|Work>
does the "total science" field refer to 1.0 multiplier?
<Pap>
Yes, that is correct
<Pap>
So, a Surface Sample from the Moon is actually worth 160 science
<leudaimon|Work>
nice, that's what I thought
<leudaimon|Work>
will this system work with [x] science?
<Pap>
Or, 40 science if transmitted from the Soil Mechanics part, or 80 science if returned after using the Soil Mechanics part
<Pap>
leudaimon|Work: It "should" however I forgot to test that last night!
<leudaimon|Work>
ok, that would be nice but not essential
<Pap>
I deem it to be essential :)
<Pap>
I love that mod
<leudaimon|Work>
;)
<Pap>
Alright, time to get to work on implementing Advanced Capsule and Space Station science experiments like Sea Urchin Egg Growth
<awang>
Pap: Wait, was that an actual experiment?
<Pap>
Yep, on Gemini 3
<Bornholio>
poor laika
<awang>
Bornholio: RP-0 is no longer PETA approved :(
<Bornholio>
hah
<awang>
Pap: What other interesting ones do you have planned for implementation?
<Pap>
Just getting started on it, but there will be Start Occulation Navigation, Orbital Maneuvering, Power Tools Evaluation, Crystal Growth Summary, Plant Growth Experiments
<Pap>
And of course, Synergistic Effect of Zero Gravity and Radiation on White Blood Cells
<Bornholio>
Need a late 2000's VIIP experiment, pretty much guarantees that NASA won't do mars human rated without artificial Gravity of some type because of it.
<Pap>
BTW, Bornholio tested the new RSS with Principia and it works great
<Bornholio>
works
<Bornholio>
great is very relative :P
<Bornholio>
must have science experiment for cosmonaut Ivan Ivanovich :)
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<egg>
Pap: well, you said egg :-p
<Pap>
Lol, yes, I sure did!
<NathanKell|WORK>
Bornholio: ya but what's his last name?
<Bornholio>
What he is famous he needs no more names, flew into space before Yuri Gagarin!
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ah yes, right.
<NathanKell|WORK>
derp
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<awang>
Does reloading the database using the debug menu also reload dlls?
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<dxdy>
that seems highly unlikely
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<awang>
:(
<soundnfury>
leudaimon|Work: in my experience the tooled prices of tanks are usually pennies and can basically be ignored
<soundnfury>
(especially now we have these big rollout costs and everything)
<Bornholio>
make sure you teir up your pads seperately so you can still launch cheap rockets
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
now you created this image of LC-39 being prepared and crewed and maintained and controlled by hundreds or thousands of people... to launch a sounding-rocket :p
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<Bornholio>
i mean canada launched 3500 rockets from churchill its not like you use LC-39 for anything smaller than a small skyscraper
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<NathanKell|WORK>
soundnfury: A Tank III for a stage will usually cost about what the engine does, in my experience
<soundnfury>
NathanKell|WORK: ok, then I guess my instincts aren't yet calibrated to the new costs
<NathanKell|WORK>
soundnfury: Yeah, in release they're super cheap
<NathanKell|WORK>
I increased cost a fair bit
<NathanKell|WORK>
I basically tried to get pricing about right for Thor, Titan, Atlas, and R-7 (although R-7 is...iffy, obvs)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: is dmagic the thing that's situation-aware?
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: No, to become situation aware, we need to include WildBlue Tools (form Angel-125). DMagic is the thing that allows the parts to only be able to achieve a certain percentage of the maximum science
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ah I see
<NathanKell|WORK>
Is there a reason not to include it?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Something like Orbital Perturbation really shouldn't even *work* except in orbit...
<Pap>
No, it will 100% be needed for the Lab experiments
<NathanKell|WORK>
So might as well add it now? Can I help with that?
<NathanKell|WORK>
I *think* I've done most of my todos, short of the Cryo stuff
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<Pap>
So, what we need to figure out, is if we can hook the WildBlue Tools science experiment information into the DMagic Science Experiment information. That would give us the best of both worlds. Otherwise, we have to choose whether one system is better or worse for the particular experiment we want to model
<egg>
NathanKell|WORK: icymi, the Чебышёв eclipse, in Чебышёв; integrated all the way from 1951! http://i.imgur.com/7NeKv6L.png
<xShadowx>
eggclipse?
<xShadowx>
egg: does it darken the 3d view in flight mode / darken terrain?;3 havent payed attention sorry ;_;
<ProjectThoth>
Bornholio: Thanks for the pdf!
<NathanKell|WORK>
egg: that's awesome!!
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<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: Are you directly in the path on Monday? I am making the 7 hour drive Monday morning to see it
<awang>
One thing I noticed is that first time you hover over the RealScience button the game freezes for a moment
<awang>
After that, it's fine
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: i'm sure the version of RealScience I have now is already obsolete, but just wanted to report that it seems like the Early Film Camera does not contain any experiments :p
<awang>
Hypergolic_Skunk: All the configs are going to need to be rewritten :P
<awang>
Or at least if I remember correctly
<awang>
Er, brb
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk we will not be switching over to RealScience for quite some time. You are good with what you have. I will look at the Early Film Camera to see what I broke. :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: ah ok :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Do you have RealScience installed?
<NathanKell|WORK>
It will conflict, I think
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I do
<NathanKell|WORK>
uninstall it then, or have it in a separate RealScience testing install
<NathanKell|WORK>
it's something awang resuscitated, not something we're using right now :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ok :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
(and awesome on the resuscitation, awang !! :) )
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
wait a minute
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I don't have RealScience installed.. I merely installed Pap's new RP-0 thing which I assumed was the same thing
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ah.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap's thing isn't "a thing", it's just "the latest commits to the RP-0 dev branch" :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah :D
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so I can stick with it?
<Pap>
Definitely
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
\o/
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I thought I had wasted another day launching sounding rocket after sounding rocket :p
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk it would appear that you need to download the mod DMagic Module Science Animate mod as well. I thought it was included with DMagic
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah!
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
will try it right away
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
thank you :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
which one did you download? the one for 1.2.1 or for 1.3?
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<Pap>
1.2.1
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
dank je wel :)
<Pap>
I actually have it as a dependency from Coatl Aerospace
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I take it everything in your installs is RO-compatible?
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<Pap>
Yes it is
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
works now :) thanks again!
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