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<Slavi_> I uh, forgot how to get to the dev branch?
<Slavi_> thanks Bornholio
<Slavi_> u da best, homie
<awang> ...I just got offered the "first launch" contract
<awang> Again
<Bornholio> your welcome slavi, good luck :P
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<Slavi_> Uh, so I downloaded the latest RO dev branch and the RD-108 was still borked and I fixed it by adding a little bit of code [using the 107 config as reference]
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<lamont> soundnfury: PEG is also technically applicable to any other finite burn problem
<lamont> and the integration + newton’s method approach handles pretty much anything from ascents, on-orbit burns, landings, sequences of burns, optimization of coast periods, criteria for adding additional burns, along with interplanetary trajectory planning
<lamont> just maybe not low-energy crazyballs n-body stuff
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<ProjectThoth> Okay, round two of installs.
<ProjectThoth> What parts packs have RL-10s?
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<blowfish> well, with some tweaks my weird early launch vehicle worked
<blowfish> Redstone + 5 AJ10-27 + 1 AJ10-27, looks like it can orbit about 70 kg
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<awang> blowfish: How much does the LV weigh?
<blowfish> I forget exacly, somewhere around 31t
<awang> Surprisingly light
<awang> Did you have to push burn times?
<blowfish> a bit yeah
<awang> By how much?
<blowfish> well, the 2nd and 3rd stages were +5s each
<blowfish> the first stage was actually underburnt
<blowfish> (because it wouldn't lift off otherwise)
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<awang> 5 seconds over on AJ10-27s doesn't seem that bad
<awang> Under by how much?
<awang> And what was your liftoff TWR?
<blowfish> liftoff was 1.2
<blowfish> A6 (redsone has 2:25 rated burn time) ... I think mine was about 2:12ish
<blowfish> I can tell you exactly once KSP starts up
<awang> Sounds like an LV I'll need to try
<blowfish> you definitely need to upgrade the launch pad before doing it but that's relatively affordable
<awang> Yeah, it's relatively cheap, it just takes FOREVER
<blowfish> yup, have to ancipate it
<blowfish> I ended up achieving orbit in April 1955, which isn't bad but probably could be optimized somewhat
<blowfish> also worth noting, I waited for the 20 inch X-Ray rather than orbiting the sounding rocket core
<awang> I usually get a Black Arrow launch off before my pad finishes upgrading
<awang> Don't remember the date
<awang> Oh?
<awang> I usually use the sounding rocket core for first orbit, and use one of the later probes for first polar and/or solar-powered orbit
<awang> That way I can get all the science at once
<blowfish> yeah, definitely could have gone to orbit ealier if I hadn't waited for that
<blowfish> okay, actual stats: mass = 30.2t, first stage burn time = 2:12.8
<blowfish> if you unlock the 1956 solids node you can add a couple of castors and stretch the first stage to its rated burn time
<jclishman> Passed the Karman line with my second launch
<jclishman> \o/
<blowfish> cool, I got to 77 Mm by adding a solid kick stage
<blowfish> welp, just unlocked 1956 tech, so one more launch and it's goodbye to this LV
<awang> I was just going to say, shouldn't it take a similar amount of time to get 1956 tech as it does to get 1956 solids?
<blowfish> well, sort of
<blowfish> 1) they're different nodes that each individually take time to unlock
<blowfish> 2) as far as liquids go I also unlocked the upgraded tanks (Tank-III)
<blowfish> but yeah, the only launch I actually did which took advantage of the solids was one with a kick stage
<blowfish> (again, if I hadn't waited for the early satellite cores, it would have been earlier and more useful)
<awang> Well, right, they unlock separately
<awang> I thought they become available at more or less the same time though
<awang> After early satellite era materials science
<awang> So might as well go for liquids first?
<awang> And aren't tank-IIIs in early satellite era materials science?
<awang> Need to pull up R&D...
<blowfish> I think yes
<blowfish> oh heh, probably should have waited for the satellite era materials science node to unlock first, since the 1956 solids node depends on it
<blowfish> I guess KCT allows you to prioritize nodes ahead of their dependencies
<awang> Cheater :P
<awang> Yep, definitely does
<awang> I definitely haven't abused that in the past
<blowfish> well *shrug*, it would have meant I didn't get the space high science + 9000 m/s record when I did
<blowfish> nothing major
<blowfish> the bug where you don't pay entry costs seems to be much more serious
<blowfish> (have been trying to notice that and anti-cheat myself the funds, but probably haven't noticed 100%)
<awang> Yeah, only reason I'd worry about the KCT thing is missing early interplanetary launch windows, if that's a thing
<awang> Does anyone know the cause for the bug?
<blowfish> damn, should have upgraded the tracking station earlier
<blowfish> I probably have the capability to go to the moon now, but without maneuver nodes it's impossible to set up
<awang> Solution: Principia!
<awang> Also, why the heck are the Taerobee parts so expensive
<awang> 20 funds for a nose cone?
<awang> 32 funds for the tank?
<awang> Uhhh
<awang> Recovered a plane using KCT
<awang> Launched again
<awang> Spawned pointing straight up
<awang> Hmmm
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<awang> Yeah, guess that's a bug for KCT
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<BadRocketsCo> Wait
<BadRocketsCo> Do I need to have 1.2.2 for RO/RP0?
* BadRocketsCo pokes soundnfury
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<awang> Yes
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<blowfish> hmm, I might be able to get the sputnik core to orbit on my LV, saving a few unlocks
<blowfish> it's 10kg above what I expected it to be able to orbit, but it might work, or only require minor tweaks
<blowfish> something to investigate tomorrow
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<BadRocketsCo> o/ TonyC
<TonyC> \o BadRocketsCo
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<soundnfury> lamont: sure, but given (a) it's more complicated and (b) you have to tune something somehow to get it to converge sometimes
<soundnfury> it's just _easier_ to extend konrad than PEG. Not saying the latter is impossible,
<soundnfury> but note how much konrad _already does_, and I've probably not spent any longer on writing it than has been spent on MJ's PEG
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<soundnfury> :| bloody rain
<Bornholio> slayer?
<soundnfury> :?
<Bornholio> oh no thats raingin blood...
<soundnfury> that's what I get for trying to get some fresh air and exercise…
<Theysen> germany went from nice 22° to 8° in like one night.. thanks earth
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<BadRocketsCo> Hiiii
<soundnfury> o/
<BadRocketsCo> Do I need to install all the mods for RO manualy?
<BadRocketsCo> Or can I still use CKAN?
<soundnfury> nope, most of them you can get from CKAN
<BadRocketsCo> Ah, okay
<Bornholio> unless you want master or dev versions
<BadRocketsCo> Even when on 1.2.2?
<soundnfury> just then install RO-dev and RP0-dev and a handful of patched DLLs over the top
<soundnfury> yeah, I'm on 1.2.2 and I got most of the bits from CKAN
<BadRocketsCo> Ah, aight
<BadRocketsCo> I read something about CKAN installing 1.3 mod versions instead but maybe I mixed something up
<soundnfury> It sometimes does, but I think the bad metadata that was causing that has been fixed
<BadRocketsCo> Okay, good
<Theysen> yeah ckan works agaib
<Bornholio> I'll take jokes that are ruined when you know too much nuclear physics for 800 Alex.
<BadRocketsCo> Hah, yeah...
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<soundnfury> we should probably not call them atoms really, given that we've managed to τομος them :P
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<blowfish> awang: turns out this LV can orbit the Sputnik core, although just barely
<blowfish> so I guess I'll remember that for my next career
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<ProjectThoth> Texture question - why wouldn't new part textures be showing up in my install?
<ProjectThoth> I've got a bunch of parts (i.e., Centaur guidance) that just look like stretched and warped stock parts.
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<Theysen> how does single ccb delta IV with RS-68A control roll? RCS or do they have verniers from the main engine?
<blowfish> Theysen: one of the turbine exhaust nozzles gimbals
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<Theysen> darn I knew it thx
<Theysen> it has two right?
<Theysen> RSB model doesn't
<blowfish> yeah, each turbine has a separate exhaust port
<Theysen> yes, it is even modeled but I guess the config for RO went poof
<Theysen> because I remembered it like this
<Theysen> and was confused when i saw ot
<ProjectThoth> Damn, still having the same problem.
<ProjectThoth> I'll upload a screenshot.
<ProjectThoth> Can't make heads or tails of it.
<Theysen> You have Ven's installed?
<Theysen> It's pretty much essential
<ProjectThoth> Ven's?
<ProjectThoth> Nope, didn't do that yet.
<Theysen> and i totally meant CBC for Delta and CCB for Atlas . creative naming
<Theysen> Install Ven Stock Revamp
<Theysen> it helps tremendously with looks
<ProjectThoth> That'd probably fix the texture issue, I'm assuming?>
<Theysen> still "stock" parts but not stock ugly
<ProjectThoth> Also, some (FASA, I think) parts have "NOT SUPPORTED BY RO" stamped in the corner.
<soundnfury> … why does my FASA Mercury pod not have a heatshield? (It always used to.)
<Bornholio> It reenters fine
<soundnfury> it has no Ablator any more
<soundnfury> and looking at my logs, I suspect the WildBlue stuff
<Theysen> It had pretty sure yes
<Theysen> I'm doing it, flying the awkward Atlas V511 ..
<soundnfury> found it
<blowfish> you have to upgrade both the tracking station and mission control to get maneuver nodes right?
<Theysen> Yes
<blowfish> damn ... since the 1st orbit contract I've just been bleeding money
<Theysen> dev?
<blowfish> maybe that's kind of the idea, since it's also the point where you need to start upgrading everything
<blowfish> yeah
<ProjectThoth> Hmm, now parachutes aren't working.
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<ProjectThoth> Correction, the window for RealChutes is the size of a postage stamp.
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<ProjectThoth> Installed the mod wrong. Gah!
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<github> [RP-0] ec429 opened pull request #766: Don't remove Ablator from crew pods. They're likely to need it. (Developmental...podfix) https://git.io/v5F8m
<ProjectThoth> What does "utilization" refer to?
<soundnfury> ProjectThoth: tank volume / part volume
<ProjectThoth> Oh, so a higher utilization would be closer to being a full cylinder?
<ProjectThoth> And a lower one would represent, say, an intertank?
<soundnfury> yeah I guess
<soundnfury> but in dev RP-0 you can't change them any more, they're fixed depending on tank type
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<ProjectThoth> Is that true for sandbox, too?
<ProjectThoth> And if yes, do you have the numbers handy/are they public?
<soundnfury> !tell NathanKell|AFK wow, is a mercury-atlas really supposed to cost nearly 200k to roll out‽ yikes.
<Qboid> soundnfury: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<soundnfury> ProjectThoth: Dunno, never play sandbox
<jclishman> ok question
<jclishman> I forked over the funds for an upgraded launch pad
<jclishman> time warped to completion
<jclishman> and.... nothing happened
<soundnfury> jclishman: you're sure? the graphics don't change every level
<jclishman> yep, I right click on it and it says "level 1 launch pad"
<jclishman> doesn't let me launch 100t vehicle
<soundnfury> weird
<jclishman> reverted back to previous save, will just try again and see what happens
<soundnfury> yeah I've been running into a few glitches with pad upgrades, used the same workaround
<ProjectThoth> I should use this to test my spreadsheet stuff.
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<Pap> Nice catch on the ablator soundnfury!
<blowfish> soundnfury: is everything tooled?
<blowfish> actually not sure if that affects rollout costs
<blowfish> or maybe crewed stuff just costs a boatload?
<soundnfury> blowfish: it is tooled, and that does affect rollout costs
<soundnfury> and clearly crewed stuff costs a boatload, but it seems said boat is the friggin' QE2 :P
<awang> What's with the cost disparity between pre-made and proc parts?
<awang> Aerobee tank is ~32 funds
<awang> Tank-I with equivalent volume is ~1 fund
<awang> Tank-I with equivalent dimensions and greater volume is also ~1 fund
<awang> Aerobee nose cone is 20 funds
<awang> Proc nose cone is <1 fund
<awang> Doesn't seem right
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<awang> The proc tanks is lighter too
<awang> s/tanks/tank
<Qboid> awang meant to say: The proc tank is lighter too
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<jclishman> well that didn't go well. https://imgur.com/BeiEYd3
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<blowfish> after 3 launches it looks like my Thor-Vanguard works pretty well
<soundnfury> blowfish: 'zat vanguard upper?
<blowfish> yeah, Thor first stage, then Vanguard 2nd, then Delta/Able type 3rd stage
<soundnfury> seems an odd choice. Does it fit on the 60t pad? And what kind of payloads/orbits do you use it for?
<soundnfury> jclishman: how did that happen?
<blowfish> it's considerably under 60t, with upgraded engines it might get closer
<blowfish> (although I'll probably have the pad upgrade before then anyway)
<blowfish> I did have to underburn the first stage by about 15s to get a decent liftoff TWR
<soundnfury> ah yes but launching from the 150t pad increases your rollout costs a bunch
<jclishman> soundnfury: messed up the staging. released the launch clamps before igniting the engines
<jclishman> rocket fell to the ground ... boom
<soundnfury> jclishman: I shouldn't laugh at you… but yeah, I am.
<jclishman> hahah fair enough
<jclishman> i laughed too
<soundnfury> blowfish: so how does it perform? I'm guessing it can throw a reasonable probe at the moon?
<soundnfury> probably not _much_ more payload-to-LEO than without the Vanguard, because the able twr will just get too low
<blowfish> I think it can get about 300 kg to LEO, with engine upgrades it'll be more
<blowfish> about to start a lunar build, I think I can include a bio sample
<blowfish> (needs a solid 4th stage for that)
<blowfish> so far used it for a couple of comm sat contracts, it can get those with 470 units of payload
<blowfish> it can also use PEG, which isn't the case with Thor-Able
<awang> Why can't Thor-Able use PEG?
<jclishman> so, for some reason when fast timewarping for science or such, i'm losing funds
<awang> jclishman: Maintenance costs!
<blowfish> awang: IIRC you need to coast between stages
<blowfish> I could be remembering wrong though
<jclishman> awang: wait what
<awang> PEG doesn't like coasting?
<blowfish> it does not
<awang> jclishman: New RP-0 feature
<awang> Or "feature", depending on how much you like it
<awang> blowfish: Ah, makes sense
<awang> jclishman: KSC takes funds to maintain
<awang> Gotta pay for facility costs
<awang> employees
<awang> etc
<jclishman> ah, ok
<jclishman> thanks!
<awang> There should be a British pound symbol with a wrench in the toolbar
<awang> That should have more info on costs
<jclishman> is it a constant rate, or does it increase as you have more things in orbit/upgrade facilities/etc
<awang> Don't know; never got far enough in a save to really notice. But I'd imagine the cost goes up as you upgrade facilities
<blowfish> soundnfury: problem with Thor-Able is that Thor really just demands a larger 2nd stage
<blowfish> (IRL, this was Agena)
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<soundnfury> awang: btw, that pound and spanner (*not* "wrench", damn Yanks) is my fault.
<soundnfury> NathanKell got me to do the GUI, so I made that icon as a way to imprint my Britishness on RP-0 ;)
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<darsie> hi
<soundnfury> blowfish: yeah, but I'd've thought Vanguard was _too_ big (and also too low-Isp) for the job.
<soundnfury> But then, I haven't tried it
<blowfish> I think it gets better Isp than the 3rd stage
<soundnfury> (mainly because I think original (pre-Vega) Vanguard probably shouldn't be airlightable anyway)
<blowfish> the air light thing is also possibly true
<darsie> I calculated NSTAR to have 108 mN thrust. If anyone feels like verifying that this would be nice.
<blowfish> it's a bit big, hence having to shorten the 1st stage a bit
<blowfish> I do have the launchpad headroom to stretch and add 2 castors if I needed to though
<UmbralRaptor> darsie: somewhere around there, though I suppose on would need to dig into NTRS? http://www.astronautix.com/n/nstar.html
<soundnfury> 278s... yeah that's a bit better than Able, not quite as good as Agena. Same as Delta.
<soundnfury> (AJ10-104 that is. Obviously later Deltas with 50-50/NTO get more)
<blowfish> I will certainly replace it with Vega when I get that node
<darsie> I did p=mv=Ft; F=mv/t; NSTAR uses 0.0006 l/s, turned that to mass via the volume and mass that fits in a procedural tank. Accelerated it to 3100*9.81 m/s. t=1 s.
<darsie> F=108 mN
<darsie> UmbralRaptor: What's NTRS?
<UmbralRaptor> NASA Technical Report Server
<darsie> Not sure if the 0.0006 l/s are accurate.
<darsie> UmbralRaptor: I mean the nstar of RO/RP-0.
<UmbralRaptor> Well, presumably you want it to match the real one?
<darsie> I want to know how much the game engine has.
<UmbralRaptor> Ah
<darsie> Cause it's listed at 0.0 kN ...
<UmbralRaptor> o_O
<soundnfury> darsie: apparently KSP cannot into SI prefixes
<darsie> mhm. But I haz math ;).
<darsie> and physics :)
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<darsie> Hmm, maybe I find something in the config file.
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<Rokker> is anyone else kinda disappointed that amy shira teitel didnt mention the X-15's Q-ball in her Apollo LES Q-ball video?
<darsie> Hmm, 92 mN in the config file.
* darsie wonders where his math is off.
<darsie> or physics.
<UmbralRaptor> !wa 108/92
<Qboid> UmbralRaptor: 108/92 = 27/23
<UmbralRaptor> !wa 108/92.0
<Qboid> UmbralRaptor: 108/92. = 1.173913043478260869565217391304347826086956521739130434782...
<UmbralRaptor> That's a lot, even if the l/s only has 1 sig fig.
<darsie> The config file doesn't say 0.0006 l/s. Maybe that's calculated and rounded for display.
<UmbralRaptor> Could explain it.
<darsie> With 92 mN I get 0.51 l/s.
<darsie> Hmm, I could verify my math/physics with a different engine.
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<darsie> math is good.
<darsie> Must be rounding 0.51 to 0.6
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<awang> Anyone around that can answer a balancing question?
<soundnfury> awang: sum of moments about the hinge is zero
* soundnfury runs
<awang> !wpn awang
* Qboid gives awang a split pigeon with a mechanism attachment
<awang> soundnfury: Prepare to face the wrath of my... pigeon
<soundnfury> It's really the… mechanism… that scares me?
<soundnfury> !wpn awang
* Qboid gives awang a flammable atom which strongly resembles a blurglecruncheon
<awang> A huh?
<awang> !g blurglecruncheon
<Qboid> awang: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogon [Vogon - Wikipedia] (237 results found, took 0.52s)
<awang> ...
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<soundnfury> !wpn
* Qboid gives soundnfury a trihexaflexagon/mathematician hybrid
<soundnfury> no Qboid, that's useless. The mathematician will be too busy fascinatedly playing with the *flexagon to ever attack anyone :|
<awang> !wpn
* Qboid gives awang an ultramatic port †
<soundnfury> stabbity!
<awang> !g ultramatic
<Qboid> awang: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramatic [Ultramatic - Wikipedia] (24800 results found, took 0.53s)
<awang> Something tells me that isn't the "ultramatic" that Qboid was referring to
<awang> In any case, does the proc part pricing feel a little exploitable to anyone?
<awang> Like B9 proc wings for fins have a *negative* cost
<awang> Or proc tanks being an order of magnitude cheaper
<soundnfury> !wpn
* Qboid gives soundnfury a quagma lattice
<soundnfury> quagma (n.) A pragmatic quagmire; or, equivalently, a quagmiric(?) pragma
<Rokker> Northrop Grumman is planning to buy Orbital ATK on Monday apparently
<UmbralRaptor> soundnfury: quark gluon plasma (or magma >_>)