<NathanKell>
I'd be seriously tempted to write a tiny version of PR that works as a vessel module
<NathanKell>
but TF...TF needs some chainsawing
<NathanKell>
maybe a bandaid for 1.3 compat could be done tho?
<Bornholio>
TF needs optimizing not chainsaw
<Bornholio>
but yes a 1.3 fast patch would be nice
<NathanKell>
That's why it needs the chainsaw
<Pap>
NathanKell: A recompile will probably work for 1.3, right?
<NathanKell>
Pap: No idea :\
<NathanKell>
Bornholio: Much of the slowdown is from design choices
<Bornholio>
I'm sure, using timers and such, too fine of a time step possibly
<NathanKell>
No, the design choice where every config needs its own core and its own set of failures, each of which is a partmodule
<NathanKell>
that's the thrashing
<Bornholio>
is TF dev open for 1.3 work or just in process improvements/changes
<NathanKell>
I don't know-- Agathorn hasn't been seen in a looong time
<Bornholio>
!seen agathorn
<Qboid>
Bornholio: I haven't seen the user agathorn yet.
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<ferram4>
NathanKell|Loading, how long is the loading and when does the twitching begin?
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
ferram4: naow
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<SpecimenSpiff>
o/
<Qboid>
SpecimenSpiff: awang left a message for you in #RO [02.09.2017 02:37:30]: "StageRecovery seems to think the Cape has latitude/longitude of ~-1.74/-75.82, respectively"
<Qboid>
SpecimenSpiff: awang left a message for you in #RO [02.09.2017 02:37:56]: "Vessel coordinates of ~28.608/-80.599"
<Qboid>
SpecimenSpiff: awang left a message for you in #RO [02.09.2017 02:38:46]: "So seems something's off with where it thinks the KSC is, since the vessel coords are bout right. Don' think it's just a degrees/radians thing, though, unfortunately"
<Qboid>
SpecimenSpiff: awang left a message for you in #RO [02.09.2017 03:10:20]: "And StageRecovery seems to think that Vandenburgis at 9.96/-134.5, while the vessel is at 34.58/-120.6"
<Qboid>
SpecimenSpiff: awang left a message for you in #RO [02.09.2017 03:10:34]: "Vessel coordinates are approximately right"
<Qboid>
SpecimenSpiff: awang left a message for you in #RO [02.09.2017 03:11:34]: "KCT has basically the same code for calculating distance from the KSC, so it may not be just StageRecovery"
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<blowfish>
!tell NathanKell* I just experimented a bit with Thor-Vanguard, and the results were pretty good. You should be able to put a fair bit into orbit with it. Have to underburn the first stage to get it to lift off, but only by about 5 seconds.
<Qboid>
blowfish: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Kiwivogel>
Thanks again for all your good work. Finally got around to playing some RO again last weekend on my new rig. Works like a charm <3
<ProjectThoth>
kiwivogel: What's your setup?
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<Kiwivogel>
ProjectThoth I now have a ryzen 5 1600, 32 GB's of ram and a 1080 :P
<ProjectThoth>
kiwivogel: Nice, nice.
<Kiwivogel>
and an ssd finally, so now I can mod my KSP to oblivion :P
<ProjectThoth>
How big?
<Kiwivogel>
and have decent loading times
<Kiwivogel>
it's a sizable tower
<Kiwivogel>
oh, the ssd :')
<ProjectThoth>
SSD size, heh.
<Kiwivogel>
250 gb only, but It's backed up by a 3 TB HDD
<ProjectThoth>
What kind of case?
<Kiwivogel>
requires a bit more managment of what goes where but I was allready straining the budget so I just minmaxed
<Kiwivogel>
be quiet! Pure Base 600 Zwart
<ProjectThoth>
Nice!
<ProjectThoth>
For a second, thought you were telling me to hush. :P
<ProjectThoth>
As coincidence would have it, I'm actually in the middle of a build myself (Amazon lost the damn CPU fan in the mail though >__<).
<Kiwivogel>
I have yet to build something really big, last thing I launched was a Castor 120, Castor 30XL, Castor30, RD-0105 upper stage. That ran very very smoothly.
<ProjectThoth>
I am so excited to have a proper rig, I'm currently using a Mac that's bordering on a decade old.
<Kiwivogel>
the 1600 runs fine on the stock cooler as far as I've noticed. I might slap on a bigger cooler and OC a little in the future but for now I'm very happy with it
<Kiwivogel>
could probably OC to 3,5 Ghz on the stock cooler without messing with the voltages too much
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<ProjectThoth>
I'm *really* fond of Phanteks's Mini-ITX case so far. The mesh over the fans slides off for cleaning.
<ProjectThoth>
It's also shorter than my monitor.
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<Maxsimal>
o/
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<Sigma88>
if any of you feels like upvoting this issue
<wb99999999>
note to self, don't arrive moon retrograde XD
<Bornholio>
hah, does make it harder :)
<wb99999999>
expect about a 200m/s increase for the braking burn
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<wb99999999>
ah, I saw what you did there
<wb99999999>
there's gotta be a name for this...
<Bornholio>
If you come in aiming at lunar center you can pretty much do whaterver you want for 150m/s at SOI edge, thats how i plan mapping missions and high lat biome landings, or come in from polar and you are going to be at least 60deg inc generally
<wb99999999>
if I'm looking for a polar orbit for mapping I'd just do some adjustment after TLI to make myself arrive in a polar trajectory
<wb99999999>
but I did notice you can change plane easily on the edge
<wb99999999>
after all SOI is just imaginary isn't it
<Bornholio>
I like to waste my dV in landing phase to break orbit steeper so i can use lower twr landers
<wb99999999>
how low did you go?
<wb99999999>
I like to have at least .3G
<Bornholio>
starting i'll gip just below 1 luna, but final only needs to be 1.5 luna if you are comming in from high and allow for long enough, problem is gravity losses are higher, so its a trade off, but then they are easy to land even without throttle
<Bornholio>
dip
<Bornholio>
cavea-B and 2kN thrusters are really where it gets easy to land lunar missions
<wb99999999>
hmm, 1.5 lunar should be abobut 0.25 G if my head is right
<wb99999999>
I don't play RP-0 to late game really, but about when do you get cavea-B?
<Bornholio>
pretty early 60's tech
<Bornholio>
think in stability? maybe the one after it
<wb99999999>
what is it IRL anyway
<wb99999999>
I tried to search for it before, but got almost nothing
<wb99999999>
just some nebulous thing about "new clean fuel"
<Bornholio>
its a high energy partial monopropellant, it neets hydrazine to ignite technically
<wb99999999>
do you know anything about its chemical composition?
<wb99999999>
so there was a cavea, and then they made cavea-b
<wb99999999>
but out of every other experimental propellant why is this in RO?
<wb99999999>
was it done to satisfy gameplay variety?
<Bornholio>
prbably because the table of RCS propellants is straight out of ignition!
<Bornholio>
there is also a good .mill pdf somewhere that has good info including Cavea-b i'll dig in my library a bit
<Bornholio>
Thermal Sesitivityies of Explosives and Propellants 327866.pdf is what mine is named
<wb99999999>
talking about RCS propellant, which one should have higher Isp, MMH or AZ50?
<wb99999999>
I remember reading about MMH has higher Isp than most of the Hydrazine based hypergols
<Bornholio>
not sure but i bet its a really design trade off of combustion speed (chamber size) versus energy content. Generally the one with the higher final molecular weight is the ISP looser, but if a much higher temp is reached because of energy content then it reverses
<Bornholio>
I'll leave the thermochemistry to others :) I like simple.
<wb99999999>
for deep space mission I noticed it's either straight hydrazine, hyrdazine+oxidizer or MMH+oxidizer
<wb99999999>
it is very rare to find anything other than these 3
<wb99999999>
not even UDMH which the Russians prefer very much
<Bornholio>
hydrazine is pretty easy, comercially transportable and all so its an easy choice in the real world for a storable.
<Bornholio>
of course its still a 443 hazard
<wb99999999>
yeah hydrazine and an oxidizer is a sensible choice if you want high performance storables
<wb99999999>
which sadly we can't yet replicate in RO
<wb99999999>
but who cares about puny probes when we can have UR-700
<Bornholio>
.sigh well launching that would break the bank in our current dev RP-0
<Bornholio>
but so would apollo and N-1
<wb99999999>
Earth orbit rendezvous is the way to go
<wb99999999>
I did make an UR-700 analogue in sandbox and it's actually very good
<wb99999999>
structural efficiency is high because of the parallel staging
<wb99999999>
oh wait, it is also a pseudo-asparagus design so it's even better
<Bornholio>
its one of the designs that may have used a rd-400 series is the only reason i know anything about it
<wb99999999>
I have not heard of rd-400
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<Bornholio>
the russian NTRs, the only one built and run to full spec is the RD-0410
<wb99999999>
oh right
<wb99999999>
yes, forgot the weird naming system
<Bornholio>
I should say РД-0410
<wb99999999>
dude there's a proposal for a hydrolox NK-15?
<Bornholio>
yeah except the russians didn't go all in for NTR so they didn't develop a proper hydrogen infrastructure early enough to use it when they should have. Pumping coolwhip is not trivial
<wb99999999>
the Soviets really do view engines differently I guess... for them switching propellant for an existing engine seems to be less of a horrible nightmare
<Bornholio>
well LR-87...
<Bornholio>
kerolox, hydrolox and tox
<wb99999999>
tox is a nice rhyming abbreviation
<Bornholio>
if only they had done a Methalox :P
<wb99999999>
Methalox wasn't a thing back then
<wb99999999>
They have barely started on hydrolox, and I'm impressed how much performance they got from an existing engine
<wb99999999>
I mean it's literally the 2nd ever functional hydrolox engine
<wb99999999>
and wouldn't you look at the spec
<wb99999999>
brb XD
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<probus_>
Does anyone remember the name of the mod that lets you dock one supply ship to a station, then it repeats the process automatically adding a new supply ship regularly?
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<Probus>
Dang if I can remember it...
<Probus>
Found it, Davon supply mod
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<wb99999999>
Bornholio: there is a solid need for a few more Methalox engines
<Bornholio>
In omaha nebraska
<wb99999999>
for example I have always wanted a single version of the BE-4
<Bornholio>
I;m not super positive on them, in fact i think that hydrolox from the ground is a better long term solution since then the body of work grows and its optimized for larger payloads to farther away. Also the reason why i'm a big pro NTR and even to a lesser extent electric propulsion.
<Bornholio>
do you use your ISP DNS or an open one? try changine to 8.8.8.8 for a DNS server and visiting
<UmbralRaptor>
4.2.2.1
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: first-stages should use dense propellants. Anything else is silly.
<soundnfury>
(ceteris paribus, of course)
<Bornholio>
why, not like tank fraction or TWR are the real challenges
<wb99999999>
dense propellant expend energy faster
<wb99999999>
in other word, your TWR increase faster
<wb99999999>
so you lose less to gravity
<wb99999999>
but this is often not as significant as a good Isp
<Bornholio>
yes but this is why keolox benifits as much from a good solid booster as hydrolox
<wb99999999>
you mean kerolox benefits as much as a hydrolox from solids?
<Bornholio>
and methane is not the win from that perspective
<Bornholio>
if TWR=TWR its a win for the higher ISP
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<awang>
\o
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: but dense prop engines _inherently_ get a better TWR, even before the jerk-effect wb99999999 mentioned
<soundnfury>
because Pumps Pump Volume, Not Mass.
<awang>
Are you intended to be unable to reach orbit with the level 1 launch pad?
<soundnfury>
it shouldn't be impossible, just very difficult (with ~1956 tech)
<blowfish>
you could just build Vanguard...
<soundnfury>
blowfish: a payload light enough for Vanguard to launch is... not trivial.
<Bornholio>
in a van guarding the ground with fire
<blowfish>
well, sure, it comes with its own challenges
<Bornholio>
theysen how do you get 1.3 RSSVE working right?
<blowfish>
Vanguard 3 was heavier than Exploerer 1 though
<blowfish>
*Explorer
<wb99999999>
Further points on Methane
<wb99999999>
for me it really is just a better kerolox
<wb99999999>
in the context of KSP it is potentially OP
<blowfish>
Not sure why Vanguard's payload is always quotes as 9 kg given Vanguard 3
<Bornholio>
well technically it orbited its solid motor case also not just he grapefruit
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<blowfish>
ah, maybe that's why the quoted mass is so high
<blowfish>
ehh nope, the solid massed more than that even empty
<Bornholio>
the later 20" was 10kg, and the last one was 50ish
<Bornholio>
ah nope Vanguard three was 23kg
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<awang>
blowfish: I'll give a Vanguard a try as soon as I unlock the right node...
<awang>
Also, how do you guys get early science?
<awang>
Seems to be somewhat limited/limiting
<Bornholio>
I do a small sounding rocket, a small push/pull prop plane and then Wac/Bumpers to all near biomes and low sapce
<Bornholio>
i've been doing all upgrades into build rate till i have 15-16 in VAB
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<Maxsimal>
Would be kinda nice to have stageflight in here so you could carry a sounding rocket with a plane to a biome and not lose pilots when you launch it.
<Bornholio>
I use Stage recovery so i could do that, but dang thats a long flight
<Maxsimal>
well, depends on your launch site if it's worthwhile.
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: I generally only put a handful of points into VAB early, maybe 7 or so. Rest go to R&D
<awang>
What'd I miss?
<Bornholio>
nothing
<awang>
That's good
<awang>
Maxsimal: Stageflight?
<Theysen>
Bornholio, 1.3 branch
<Maxsimal>
Mod that auto-recovers craft that have sufficient parachutes and are going under a certain speed - mostly for recovering things like spent boosters, but you could use it to recover say, a B52 after it airdropped the X-1. It test for recovery anything in atmosphere and going outside phsyics sim range
<Bornholio>
why didn't i see that .sigh
<wb99999999>
I think it's called stage recovery
<Bornholio>
thanks Theysen
<Maxsimal>
oh sorry, stage recovery, yes, my mistake
<Theysen>
Bornholio, but as i said, most likely outdated I think
<wb99999999>
but FMRS is also a good one
<Bornholio>
Stage Recovery works great with FMRS so if you want to flyback planes its pretty easy
<wb99999999>
the soyuz-5, it really looks gorgeous
<Bornholio>
with the old biosample pods, i'd strap one or two on my first bumper and put enough chutes to recover it, so that woud get me those samples back, then only needed one for space on the wac stage
<awang>
Ah, StageRecovery
<awang>
Great mod, if it didn't get the recovery distances wrong :(
<awang>
(Still a great mod, but that's just really annoying)
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<awang>
Bornholio: Bumper?
<Maxsimal>
You can change the settings to a flat recovery percentage. Tbh, with rollout costs, it's not that valuable as a cash-saving mod anymore, and without scrapheap it's not good for saving building time either.
<awang>
I didn't realize rollout costs were such a cash hog
<awang>
That would explain why I'm so low on funds...
<awang>
Bornholio: So, so *that's* what it's called....
<Bornholio>
if you make a cheap efficient bumper (no avionics) you can us it for a bunch pf early rocket missions and it builds very fast, tolling cost for only two tanks, a .4m and a 1.65m for a cone tank use a parachute as the cone on the top stage and you get first recoveries out of it also
<awang>
I've just been calling it "Sounding Rocket 1"
<Bornholio>
lol, yes has a real name :)
<awang>
I need to make a mod that tells me what the actual name is for whatever it is I create
<awang>
You can get a cone parachute the right size? I thought none of the sizes RealChutes provides was right for the Aerobee
<awang>
Unless I'm using the wrong core
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<awang>
Since there's two of them
<Bornholio>
We need to start the campaign 3 years earlier so i have some leftover WW-2 free V-2 parts in scrapyard
<Bornholio>
one of the sizes is slightly small, no bigg though
<soundnfury>
awang: there's a 30cm chute, that's the one I use
<soundnfury>
but then I use a 30cm body on my bees too
<awang>
I thought the Aerobees are 38 cm
<awang>
Or 40
<awang>
Depending on the body
<awang>
Taerobee's is 38cm, I think?
<awang>
Bornholio: I thought the slightly too small one would seriously mess with the aerodynamics
<soundnfury>
awang: yes, but proc tanks exist :P
<awang>
But perhaps I'm overestimating the effect FAR has on rockets?
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<Bornholio>
.shrug, never had problems,
<awang>
soundnfury: True... I've been avoiding them for the first few launches, due to tooling
<awang>
But that would work, too
<Bornholio>
usually tuck a biocan up under it also for the first launch at least
<soundnfury>
awang: I find I launch enough bees for it to be worth it
<soundnfury>
but then, I start with plain bees then work up to A4-boosted
<awang>
Bornholio: Yep, did that too. Also had a film canister
<soundnfury>
and do silly things like Aerobee Heavy
<awang>
soundnfury: I usually just so a normal Aerobee, then go straight to the Bumpers
<Rokker>
yayyyyy launch week
<awang>
Any way to get more sizes for RealChutes?
<Bornholio>
yes mod the part config and add or change a size
<awang>
:(
<Theysen>
lithobrake it, chutes for noobs
<Bornholio>
x-37b on the 7th
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<wb99999999>
transtage is a good stage but it's often forgotten...
<Bornholio>
forgotten, not for anyone who dynasoars
<blowfish>
ehh, it's ok for a pressure fed stage
<wb99999999>
which of the 3 uppers is the most common for Titan 4?
<UmbralRaptor>
Centaur?
<wb99999999>
I mean I can totally pull out some tables and check, but I want to hear other people's guess