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<awang> \o
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<ProjectThoth> Well, I got my rig up and running. :D
<Bornholio> .cheers
<ProjectThoth> I should install RO.
<ProjectThoth> I'm already gonna hate myself from gen chem this semester, might as well go the whole nine yards...
<Bornholio> might want to start with KSP and work your way up :P
<ProjectThoth> Hah!
<ProjectThoth> I can't believe how smooth KSP is now.
<Bornholio> gonna have to wait closer to christmas before any new rig for me
<ProjectThoth> Aww.
<Bornholio> new job is gonna give me a very nice laptop, but i normally don't put games on company hardware
<Bornholio> It will have my favorite CAD on it so i may model NTR's on it though. Have Taniwha walk me through turning them into proper.mu's
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<NathanKell> o/
<Qboid> NathanKell: blowfish left a message for you in #RO [04.09.2017 05:41:28]: "I just experimented a bit with Thor-Vanguard, and the results were pretty good. You should be able to put a fair bit into orbit with it. Have to underburn the first stage to get it to lift off, but only by about 5 seconds."
<NathanKell> blowfish: Awesome!
<blowfish> I'm optimistic about it getting 400 kg to orbit
<NathanKell> Wow, that's really quite good!
<blowfish> (I was able to do more, but in sandbox)
<ProjectThoth> Gonna try a jaunt to the Mun in stock.
<blowfish> good luck! Try not to accidentally hit Eeloo
<Bornholio> NathanKell testing RSS on 1.3 any must test mods? (currently adding RSSVE and Principia)
<NathanKell> To make it playable, add ROMini or SMURFF
<Bornholio> wasn't going to play it much just see if i can break the RSS portion in anyway
<NathanKell> yep, but it'll still make life easier if you don't have to build whackjob stuff to go to orbit :)
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<NathanKell|Twitch> Pap you around?
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<Pap> yes NathanKell|Twitch but on mobile, what's up?
<awang> I started a KRASH simulation and all of a sudden got ~3500 funds o_O
<NathanKell|Twitch> Pap: nm, Bornholio explained it to me (what the photography levels were, I saw 600kg for what I thought was a Corona camera and freaked, Bornholio explained it's meant to be KH-5/SAMOS)
<Pap> Ah, NathanKell|Twitch Yes, the first Film Return is the weight of Corona (IIRC)
<NathanKell|Twitch> Pap: Second one's mass is actually too heavy for KH-5, turns out. Thor Agena B could only loft ~500kg to polar LEO
<NathanKell|Twitch> If it's meant to be something launched on Thorad, then the 600kg makes sense
<NathanKell|Twitch> but if it *is* meant to be something later, it should probably unlock later?
<Pap> That is a good question, let me look at that
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<NathanKell> Pap: Coolio :)
<NathanKell> ok, suppertime! o/
<SpecimenSpiff> NathanKell, please test when you get a chance: https://github.com/dgeastman/RangeSafety/releases
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<NathanKell|AFK> SpecimenSpiff: ok!
<awang> Level 1 runway weight limit is too small for B29 + X-1 :(
<awang> Unless I'm doing something horribly wrong
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<awang> I mean, it's *technically* enough
<awang> I just get ~20 minutes of flight time out of the B-29
<awang> Which isn't as much as I would like
<Starwaster> what like a B29 superfortress?
<awang> Yeah
<awang> Or as close as to one as I can get
<awang> Since I don't have a B-29 cockpit
<awang> (I think)
<awang> So it's really just a super huge He-111
<Starwaster> yeah 20 minutes doesnt sound like nearly enough
<Pap> NathanKell|AFK: whenever you get back, do you know Thor Agena D would work for 600 kg?
<awang> I can get to maybe 10000 mters if I'm lucky
<awang> And that's not including fuel for the descent
<SpecimenSpiff> I had a "kick myself" moment this morning. Been doing sounding contract after sounding contract, a few suborbital manned flights, otherwise just waiting for bigger and better techs. Then decided "well, lets go ahead and see what I can do with the A-9." And reached orbit. I've had all the tech I used for about a year in my career.....
<Starwaster> holy shit how come I never heard of this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FICON_project#/media/File:Boeing_B-29_TomTom.jpg
<Bornholio> how many pilot crapped themselves docking that way :P
<Starwaster> probably a few of them, considering they lost some planes that way
<Starwaster> an F84 flipped over and smacked into the wing of the B29 and both planes were lost
<Bornholio> yeesh, yeah no thanks said the pig
<Starwaster> loss of all on board :(
<Starwaster> it's amazing though the things we've tried over the past few decades
<Bornholio> now everything is tied up in superprojects. .givesFinger to F35
<Starwaster> better be worth it
<Starwaster> probably isnt
<Starwaster> you know they that they had to repaint fuel trucks because of the F35 don't you, Bornholio?
<Bornholio> same worn out paradigm, a racehorse designed by commitee
<Bornholio> don't know
<Bornholio> they were upgrading fire trucks to have titanium peircing bits when i left but that was for 22/23's
<Starwaster> USAF fuel trucks are (were) routinely painted green
<Starwaster> the F35 uses its fuel as coolant
<Starwaster> it can't operate properly if the fuel is too warm
<Starwaster> so they had to repaint the tanks white
<Rokker> StarwasterI HAVE BEEN AWAKENED
<Rokker> TIP TOW
<Bornholio> lol yeah
<Starwaster> with a special 'solar reflective paint'....
<Rokker> Starwaster: google XF-85 Goblin
<Starwaster> which I'm guessing is probably just titanium oxide
<Starwaster> or I dunno ,maybe it's impregnated with special reflective shit
<Bornholio> most likely, but maybe they use that mylar/al chip stuff
<Starwaster> rokker yeah I've seen that little guy before
<Rokker> Starwaster: same ficon area of ideas
<Starwaster> why don't we do shit like that anymore?
<blowfish> I'm curious which of the F-22 or F-35 will end up being more cost-effective in the long run
<blowfish> The F-22 was crazy expensive too
<Rokker> blowfish: plz no ping
<Starwaster> is it because we're too busy scrambling to repaint all the fuel tanks white so our multibillion dollar F35 can fly?
<blowfish> Rokker: ahahahahahahah
<Starwaster> one ping only please
<Starwaster> verify range to target!
<Bornholio> f16 blah blah blah rokker
<Starwaster> so are we killing the Warthog yet?
<Rokker> some times i regret making my ping words USAF and USAF planes
<Starwaster> has the Warthog been sacrificed on the altar of Big Bucks?
<Bornholio> rokker did i tell you about F16's eating bunnies
<Starwaster> o.O
<Starwaster> uhm
<Bornholio> sitting on the tarmac in the uk before heading to egypt, watching a F16 taxi
<Rokker> :(
<Rokker> Bornholio: dont tell this story
<Bornholio> bounc bouncy right into the intake
<Rokker> my rabbits are present
<Bornholio> shelled it right out, could see the pilot swearing
<Rokker> :(
<Bornholio> so one other electric lawn dart (f16) in canaries had to sortie with us to do the bi-yearly with egypts military
<Starwaster> I don't think I want to hear these stories either
<Bornholio> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bright_Star it was fun but a lot of work
<Starwaster> there better not be any bunnies or kitties coming to an untimely end in that
<Bornholio> we had a goose go through the nose cone of a C141 of one of the load masters i worked with. and birdstrikes in general along leading edge on Buffs
<Bornholio> those engines though, birds in smoke out
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<ProjectThoth> What's the snap to node keyboard shortcut?
<Starwaster> alt
<Starwaster> you mean snap only right?
<ProjectThoth> ye
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<awang> Is filling up your rocket on the pad using launch clamps to bypass mass limits considered an exploit?
<awang> Or is that expected?
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<blowfish> awang: to my knowlege it's considered an exploit
<awang> :(
<awang> Well, that's entirely expected
<awang> Just somewhat annoying
<lamont> yeah that’s cheatin
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<awang> RF needs a better way of shrinking tanks then
<awang> Partially filling a tank is pretty annoying otherwise
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<ProjectThoth> I wonder why stock doesn't yield more rocket SSTOs.
<ProjectThoth> Anyway, I'm kinda gettin' back in the game... https://i.imgur.com/KDMhsmy.png and https://i.imgur.com/bkFZPF3.png
<ProjectThoth> (stock)
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<awang> Doing a proper X-1 with airdrop is hard
<awang> Even with FMRS
<awang> Planes pretty much start tumbling like wild when FMRS reloads
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<ProjectThoth> M U N K U B E
<ProjectThoth> How the hell would gravity work on those things?
<Sigma88> fine if you are at the center of any of the faces
<Sigma88> the vertex are basically huge mountains
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<Sigma88> does any of you have any experience rotating vectors?
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<Kiwivogel> Sigma88 I used to do that kind of crap a lot while I was still doing crystalography but that's like 5 years ago and I seem to have forgotten all of it -.-
<Kiwivogel> I would suggest using rotation matrices that was always the easiest for me but I have no idea if that's the most efficient way to do that computationally
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<Sigma88> they say to use quaternion
<Sigma88> but I don't think the results I'm getting are correct
<borntosleep> 6 doF?
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<Bornholio> shoot gotta run
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<Bornholio> quarternation can have times its not stable like when Qx+Qy+Qz <0 (the diagonal) of the matrix
<Bornholio> dang thats been a long time. stupid matrix theory. quarternation is useful because it halves the operations needed vs a rotation matrix
<Sigma88> let me show my problem
<Sigma88> here
<Sigma88> I have this shape
<Sigma88> idk if you are familiar with PQS
<Bornholio> never dug into them
<Sigma88> long story short
<Sigma88> I have a vector which represents one position on the surface of the sphere
<Sigma88> I use math to calculate the shape of the cube
<Sigma88> for how I set up my math
<Sigma88> the faces will always be centered on the 3 main axis
<Sigma88> (1,0,0)(0,1,0)(0,0,1)
<Sigma88> now, I want to be able to rotate the cube
<Sigma88> so, my thought was, I read the original vector
<Sigma88> rotate it
<Sigma88> and then do the math
<Sigma88> but I can't find a way to get the correct result
<Bornholio> is it a left hand rule vector?
<Sigma88> no idea
<Sigma88> would that change?
<Bornholio> the direction of the Y rotation and z axis + would reverse
<Sigma88> it's a cube, I don't think that would matter
<Bornholio> what is it doing that leads you to say its wrong?
<Sigma88> as far as I can tell to move a corner in place of a face I should rotate 45° around 2 axis
<Sigma88> no?
<Sigma88> all corners should move where the center of a face was
<Bornholio> ok dice in front of me, if i translate 90deg Rx&Ry i move from held face vertical to held points
<Bornholio> 45 deg
<Sigma88> yes
<Sigma88> but it doesn't work
<Sigma88> my code is
<Sigma88> vector = Quaternion.AngleAxis(45, Vector3.up)*vector
<Sigma88> vector = Quaternion.AngleAxis(45, Vector3.right)*vector
<Sigma88> I tried all combinations of up, right, forward
<Bornholio> is the angle in radians?
<Sigma88> no it's degrees
<Sigma88> as long as I use only 1 rotation it works fine
<Sigma88> duna from the tweet I posted
<Sigma88> was rotated 45° around forward
<Bornholio> is the base coordinate not in the center?
<Sigma88> they are in the center
<Sigma88> it's a result of the math I use to make the cube
<Sigma88> this is the cube
<Bornholio> yeah and the game thinks its centered
<Sigma88> if you mean the vector
<Sigma88> yes it's the center of the planet
<Sigma88> it goes from the center of the planet outwards
<Bornholio> is eve the one that is not quite right?
<Sigma88> yes
<Sigma88> but that's not even 45° 45°
<Sigma88> I had to eyeballit
<Sigma88> I think it was something like 45°x 55°y 40°z
<Sigma88> something like that
<Bornholio> duna is just Rx 45?
<Sigma88> Vector3.forward
<Sigma88> !g Vector3.forward
<Qboid> Sigma88: https://docs.unity3d.com/ScriptReference/Vector3-forward.html [Unity - Scripting API: Vector3.forward] (16100 results found, took 0.72s)
<Sigma88> z
<Sigma88> z45
<Sigma88> here are all the standard vectors
<Sigma88> might help orientate yourself
<Bornholio> I lose sanity when unity talks vectors
<Sigma88> yup
<Bornholio> how about vector3(.707,.707,0)
<Sigma88> actually I managed to make it work for this particular case, using a different approach
<Sigma88> but I want to find a way to make it customizeable
<Sigma88> I solved it doing this >> vector = Quaternion.FromToRotation(Vector.one, Vector.up) * vector;
<Sigma88> Vector.one is the corner (1,1,1) vector.up is the upper face (0,1,0)
<Sigma88> so I moved the corner to the face
<Sigma88> problem is that I can't find a good way to make it work properly
<Bornholio> That makes more sense than compositing vectors to me, Q' is supposed to reduce number of operations
<Bornholio> deosn't lend its self to giving three R values though
<Bornholio> can you return euler angles?
<Sigma88> I think so, not sure
<Sigma88> gtg
<Sigma88> brb
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<Pap> Bornholio: only a couple of more days left before your job! Ready for it?
<Bornholio> NO! :)
<Bornholio> I need an extra commuter car .sigh
<Bornholio> otherwise i have to drive my wife to work at 6am and i hate mornings
<Pap> Damn, how far from work are you?
<Pap> Everything in Omaha is probably 15 minutes from each other, right? It is a "city" afterall /s
<Bornholio> its a 10 minute drive for both of us
<Bornholio> omaha is moderately big, but yeah 30 minutes is a long drive unless its over the river or stuck in rush for an extra 15 :P
<Bornholio> pap I got RSSVE working with 1.3 RSS+ScaledTextures8k, so principia is next
<Pap> Awesome Bornholio !
<Pap> I think we might be skipping a 1.2.2 RO/RP-0 release as well, but I think it is all up to what NK wants to do with TestFlight
<Bornholio> CKAN wants to leave the config folder out of scatterer for me. Yeah .summon Agathorn !
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<Sigma88> Bornholio: how do I calculate the invers of a rotation?
<Sigma88> I think I might know what I'm doing wrong
<Bornholio> thats a conjugate to norm ratio, wiki might be okay for that
<Bornholio> unity has an inverse
<Sigma88> ok perfect
<Bornholio> egg should have pinged by now
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<github> [RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v5g2w
<github> RP-0/Developmental 153f918 Pap: Updated Improved Film Camera...
<github> [RP-0] pap1723 closed pull request #763: Change "RTG's" to "RTGs" (Developmental...remove-apostrophes) https://git.io/v5ZaH
<Pap> !NathanKell* It turns out there was a missing 0 and the Improved Film Camera was 10 times heavier than it was supposed to be. Thanks for catching it! That one is based on the Corona satellites
<Pap> !tell NathanKell* It turns out there was a missing 0 and the Improved Film Camera was 10 times heavier than it was supposed to be. Thanks for catching it! That one is based on the Corona satellites
<Qboid> Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<wb99999999> click
<Bornholio> afternoon
<wb99999999> still morning here
<Bornholio> pa will the distant object enhancement config need updating for RSS?
<Bornholio> and !NathanKell* should be a command :)
<Bornholio> pap
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<SpecimenSpiff> o/
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<wb99999999> how could Aestus II manage 340s with hypergols...?
<Bornholio> 60bar pressure in chamber long combustion chamber and high Ae/At ratio
<Bornholio> 84:1
<blowfish> wb99999999: pump fed
<Maxsimal> looks like those are stats for RS-72, not aestus II
<Bornholio> they are the same aren't they?
<Maxsimal> no, RS-72 is heavier due to better turbopump and 300:1 expansion ratio. RS-72 has the 340 ISP, according to aeronautix
<Maxsimal> Aestus II is 324 ISP
<wb99999999> pump fed upper stage hypergolic engine sounds so Russian
<Bornholio> I thought the aestus I was 84:1 & 324 :/
<wb99999999> they seriously put pump-fed engines on probes and landers
<wb99999999> guess they don't like heavy pressurization so much huh
<Maxsimal> I think nowadays, a rutherford style electric pump engine for probes would be a great idea.
<wb99999999> If I were you I'd be very scared about the batteries failing
<wb99999999> you can't just reroute the probe's power supply to it either, a pump takes way more energy to run than the electonics
<Maxsimal> obviously I don't know about the battery tech involved, but a mechanical pump seems like it'd have a higher failure rate than lithium batteries - unless they were from Samsung.
<Maxsimal> Plus the rutherford engines have enough battery power to pump for launch engines - you wouldn't need that kind of pumping rate for a probe engine.
<wb99999999> you points are solid
<wb99999999> but I think we can agree on the fact that a probe's power supply is orders of magnitudes samller than what is required for even the smaller pumps
<Pap> Bornholio: Distant Object will be completely optional
<Bornholio> pumping power to weightof a turbopump could be around 100-150kW.kg, very good electrics are in the 10kW/kg range, then there are fuels vs batteries say good bats 400kj/kg vs 13.4MJ/kg (x40% efficient)
<Bornholio> pap thats true but will it need changes because RSS adds planets?
<Bornholio> nevermind i just looked at that config and it already has an Oberon so it should be good
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<Maxsimal> wb99999999: Well, back of the envelope calculations from 37kw to drive a 22kn pump say you could drive a 60kn aestus-style engine with a ~18kg li-S battery for 300 seconds. And 60kn is overkill for most probes. Also if you don't need to do everything in one burn, you can recharge the battieries between
<wb99999999> what is the gain compare to a pressure-fed system?
<Maxsimal> If RO numbers are to be believed, you might save 7 percent on dry mass of the tanks for switching from modern pressurized to modern unpressurized - anyone know better? So could be quite significant. Plus you could 'stage' off your batteries if you really wanted, popping off a battery has to be easier than disconnecting a tank after all.
<Maxsimal> Oh, I mean, 7% of the fuel mass, not 7% of the tank mass.
<Bornholio> If the batteries up the availablity of Ion propulsion at the same time the do higher TWR chemical i can see a use being extended. but both batteries and power system would have to be radiation hardened and the polymers in the advanced batteries are suseptable to GCR damage, plus temp is critical for batteries https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20090023862.pdf
<Maxsimal> I doubt you'd use ion propulsion and a liquid rocket on the same probe. But yeah - batteries have to be temp stabilized, but usually the inside of a probe is maintained at certain temperatures away, it's not like they don't already put batteries on probes.
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<wb99999999> ion drives is frequently used with liquid thrusters on the same probe
<wb99999999> see Dawn
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<Maxsimal> Nothing I'm reading said Dawn had anything besides ion thrusters on the probe
<Maxsimal> Do mean the RCS on it?
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<darsie> ion drives may get probes to a target and chemical thrusters may be needed for landing.
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<leudaimon> o/
<darsie> .
<Pap> o/
<leudaimon> hey Pap! how is it going?
<Pap> Going well, how about you?
<leudaimon> I moved to czech republic for almost a year, still getting things settled down
<Pap> Ah, I was going to ask you when you were moving! Nice
<leudaimon> yeah, arrived last thursday
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<egg> happy user! forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/0--&do=findComment&comment=3165610
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<blowfish> Ariane V launch in about a minute
<blowfish> no wait, that's the start of the broadcast
<blowfish> why would they count down to that?
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<Hohman> launch show at 2130 utc
<blowfish> actual countdown shows 14 minutes now
<Hohman> idk wtf goin on
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<blowfish> launch aborted
<egg> and scrubbed
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<dollabills> RAKING IN THE DOLLA DOLLA BILLS
<dollabills> RAKING IN THE DOLLA DOLLA BILLS
<dollabills> DONATIONS ARE NEEDED FOR THIS GREAT WORK!!
<dollabills> PLEASE VISIT #WEECHAT
<dollabills> IRC.FREENODE.NET FOR MORE INFORMATION!!
<dollabills> type !donation in channel for donation info
<dollabills> lamont WetLemons Hohman qwertyy_ blowfish awang stratochief_ Rokker VanDisaster TechnicallySleeping TonyC1 BasharMilesTeg Maxsimal darsie acharles_ Asymptote ferram4 aradapilot zilti1 Raidernick Bornholio Kraken JPLRepo mkalte acc Sarbian Addle Daz Probus Olympic1 SirKeplan soundnfury Ezko egg
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<aradapilot> ./ban
<Raidernick> ban this fool
<Raidernick> Pap
<blowfish> there seem to be some spambots making the rounds today
<egg> had the same issue in #FAR, different IP; at this point this is something for the network operators to deal with, no real use in banning that particular IP (and potentially harming some actual user sometime later when that IP gets given to someone interested in RO)
<blowfish> Freenode invasion?
<blowfish> yeah, I don't see any commonalities in the /whois info
<Raidernick> egg, kick the bot from the channel at least?
<egg> Raidernick: it left
<Hohman> At that point you reach out to the server admins and get the channel ops glined
<Raidernick> ok
<egg> drive-by spamming
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