<Qboid>
NathanKell|AWAY: soundnfury left a message for you in #RO [11.09.2017 23:10:09]: "Tooling for an Atlas-sized balloon tank costs about 100,000 funds, whereas unlocking the FASA Atlas E/F tank costs 6,000. Which of these numbers is wrong?"
NathanKell|AWAY is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: Starwaster left a message for you in #RO [10.09.2017 14:11:02]: "Sorry I haven't had a chance to work on RF thermals this past week. Been busy preparing for Irma and I'm expecting that I'll probably be without power for awhile"
<NathanKell>
!tell soundnfury the 100,000 number is much closer to correct I think, given the total Atlas program R&D and tooling cost was on the order of 1,000,000 IIRC.
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<ProjectThoth>
1 million USD?
<ProjectThoth>
Huh, cheaper than I expected.
<NathanKell>
In 1965 dollars
<NathanKell>
and that's billion
<NathanKell>
(1 fund = 1000 USD in 1965 dollars)
<NathanKell>
Plus much of the engine R&D fell under the Navaho program R&D anyway.
<ProjectThoth>
Huh, still way less than I'd expect.
<NathanKell>
About 60 billion for the US first and second gen ballistic missiles all told (2006 dollars)
<NathanKell>
Oh lol, I thought Atlas was 5bil, it was 15.
<NathanKell>
s/and second //
<Qboid>
NathanKell meant to say: About 60 billion for the US first gen ballistic missiles all told (2006 dollars)
<NathanKell>
Shuttle was a bargain by these numbers :P
<SpecimenSpiff>
o/
<NathanKell>
Yo!
<SpecimenSpiff>
NathanKell, have you had a chance to play with RangeSafety at all?
<ProjectThoth>
NathanKell: Ah, that does change things. :P
<TheKosmonaut>
Ayyo NathanKell
<TheKosmonaut>
Did you see those rocket engines I linked earlier? https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/154624-13-realenginespack-v18-oms-and-apollo-engine-release-22072017/ they look pretty nice
<NathanKell>
my IRC has been down for a few days apparently
<NathanKell>
so no
<NathanKell>
and no SpecimenSpiff, sorry
<NathanKell>
haven't played since, well, the last time you saw me stream
<NathanKell>
been real busy what with the team here and all
<SpecimenSpiff>
note about halfway through when I enable gimble and turn off ass and it starts spinning like a top
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<ProjectThoth>
That's so strange.
<SpecimenSpiff>
if I take off the quad of a-9 boosters it flies fine
<SpecimenSpiff>
but then its massively short of dV, of course
<ProjectThoth>
Can you try launching one of the boosters by itself?
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<SpecimenSpiff>
the massive overkill option, copy the redstone core into 4 boosters, seems to fly ok
<SpecimenSpiff>
but it gets me no more dV than did the a-9 boosters
<SpecimenSpiff>
I may just accept that and stop bashing my head against this rocket
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<ProjectThoth>
The DH-1 would be pretty expensive to develop IRL, no?
<awang>
Dang, I never realized just how much jet engine fuel consumption varied with altitude
<awang>
Also, is there a "cruise" vs "takeoff"/"boost"/whatever setting for jet engines without afterburners?
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<blowfish>
awang: fuel consuption should be proportional to pressure at the same speed and air temperature
<blowfish>
and there is not any setting - what would that correspond to in real life?
<blowfish>
I think usually the thrust we use is the maximum thrust, though that can't really be sustained over long periods of time since it puts a lot of heat load on the engine
<blowfish>
(however, there is nothing modeling that in AJE)
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<awang>
!tell blowfish I think I've seen somewhere that fuel consumption depends on intake pressure, but I had no idea the effect was so dramatic
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<TheKosmonaut>
SpecimenSpiff: can you do that launch again by with all the visualizers on?
<TheKosmonaut>
Drag, thrust, lift, etc?
<awang>
!tell blowfish As for the cruise jet engine setting, I thought that real-life planes usually throttle back some amount for cruising, and wondered if there was an explicit setting for that. Or if there's some magic number I need to know
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<TheKosmonaut>
In the chest menu. I think FAR also has some visualizers
<awang>
!tell blowfish sort of akin to how 67% throttle is the point where afterburners kick in
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Maxsimal>
o/
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<awang>
Man I really need to start putting spoilers on my planes
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<awang>
Also, around how many degrees should wing angle of attack be?
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<soundnfury>
NathanKell|AFK: ok. sounds like FASA needs some rebalancing for RP-1 then
<Qboid>
soundnfury: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [12.09.2017 03:02:25]: "the 100,000 number is much closer to correct I think, given the total Atlas program R&D and tooling cost was on the order of 1,000,000 IIRC."
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<wb99999999>
I did not know there's a pdf of Ignition! just floting around the internet
<wb99999999>
just how good is lox compared to every other oxidizer in performance?
<UmbralRaptor>
I want to say near the top. In terms of safety, probably the best.
<wb99999999>
it's argubaly less safe than say, H2O2 but H2O2 is so low-performing it doesn't really matter
<wb99999999>
it's impractically low performing for main engines anyway...
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<Maxsimal>
Liquid fluorine is obviously the way to go :P
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<UmbralRaptor>
Yay, fluorolox
<Kropotkin>
I use metallic hydrogen.
<Maxsimal>
Well obviously metallic hydrogen, but he was asking about an oxidizer, not a fuel.
<Kropotkin>
:(
<Maxsimal>
Though really metallic hydrogen is a great monopropellant all by itself, so you don't need an oxidizer anyway.
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<Maxsimal>
I guess you'd call it a reactant, then, since it's not eletropositive or electronegative... not sure. Anyway, I didn't mean to snip at you Kropotkin, just carrying on in the spirit of absurdity
<Kropotkin>
It's quite all right. I find it all educational.
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<Ezko_>
i oxidise with steel
<Ezko_>
vapor
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<soundnfury>
Pap: Why do none of the science parts (and particularly the film cameras) have DataIsCollectable = true? i.e. I have to disable realism mode on ShipManifest to be able to transfer the film to my RV...
<Pap>
soundnfury: I didn't know that was necessary for ShipManifest to work correctly
<Kiwivogel>
I have a proton m with TWRS of 1.49 for first 0.94 for second, 0.76 for third and 0.07 for the spacetug (that needs to complete circularisation). It's all hypergolic with hideous burn times and garbage isp -.-
<Kiwivogel>
total burning time for first 3 stages is 9,5 mins e.e
<Kiwivogel>
currently at a pitc rate of .6 and pitch end time of 150 but I cannot verify wether the ending angle is correct because I'm getting an NAN for the predicted engine cutoff angle
<lamont>
that’ll probably work better if you can circularize with the third stage
<lamont>
it would probably need a proper calculus-of-variations analysis of the launch trajectory
<Kiwivogel>
wonder if there's any english literature on russian rocket guidance :/
<Kiwivogel>
my russian is abysmal :p
<lamont>
we’re missing that algorithm from our launch planning. it should be run pre-launch and the trajectory fed into PEG
<lamont>
the russians copied us i think. at least someone on the forums found a russian translation of space-shuttle PEG
<Kiwivogel>
haha
<Kiwivogel>
the only thing I know about the guidance on the proton is that it's hard to mount the gyro's upside down but someone still managed to do that out of spite :P
<Kiwivogel>
and that this results in a proton M not going to space
<Kiwivogel>
thanks for the input. I'll try building an angara instead, those have more reasonable TWRs
<Kiwivogel>
also RD-191's are great :P
<soundnfury>
these tanks aren't respecting my utilisation
<Kiwivogel>
is there anyway to re-add the button that disables the decoupler in interstages?
<soundnfury>
I lowered it to 45% and on launching the thing it appears to be back at max :(
<Kiwivogel>
at least we get a soyuz launch in 35 mins :p
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<leudaimon>
o/
<soundnfury>
\o
<leudaimon>
hey soundnfury!
<soundnfury>
heya leudaimon, how goes?
<leudaimon>
fine, living in europe for some months, still settling down...
<leudaimon>
how are things around here?
<soundnfury>
well, RP-0 has been totally re-written, there are a few bugs I'm running across, but mostly my playthrough seems to be working
<soundnfury>
still getting used to the bigger numbers for funds, muchly sticker shock xD
<leudaimon>
yeah, things were almost done when I disappeared... the new construction/rollout cost stuff is working now?
<soundnfury>
(including Nathan's magic KCT and RF dlls)
<leudaimon>
I had a install working with tooling etc. before leaving...
<soundnfury>
ok well the main changes since then are probably the science stuff, you now need DMagicOrbitalScience and WildBlueTools (specifically v1.19)
<leudaimon>
and the wonderful KCT tree with the unlocked nodes highlighted!
<soundnfury>
yaaaaaay ^
<leudaimon>
nice, has Pap got it working then? he was trying to solve some issues with Dmagic
<taniwha>
o/
<soundnfury>
it mostly works yeah
<leudaimon>
cool
<taniwha>
rather early, but not as bad as it could be
<soundnfury>
can't transfer science in ShipManifest without turning realism mode off, but Pap's working on that (as of 2 hours ago when I reported it)
<leudaimon>
I see... and you said balancing seems fine too?
<soundnfury>
but yeah if you don't mind a few rough edges and having to workaround bugs everything's ok
<soundnfury>
(I haven't tried the crew-capsule-science stuff yet, because I haven't got that far)
<soundnfury>
mostly fine, yeah. Beware of FASA parts, they're way too cheap to unlock
<soundnfury>
(e.g. atlas tank is 6k whereas tooling the equivalent proc tanks is about 100k)
<leudaimon>
I use only proc. tanks...
<leudaimon>
use FASA for capsules and similar stuff
<soundnfury>
(and FASA's Castor I is about a tenth the price of ours)
<leudaimon>
well, it will be another couple weeks before I get a proper computer
<leudaimon>
is NK doing any series right now? do you guys intend to start a new RIS to show up the new campaign?
<soundnfury>
I think new RIS will wait until we've tested it a bit more. Also I'll need to rebalance RIS rewards
<soundnfury>
afaik NK hasn't had time to play/stream recently
<leudaimon>
I see... well, I'll have time to join then!