<pianojosh_>
i think i mentioned this bug i ran into before, that i still seem to be having, where procedural tanks loaded from subassemblies or merged into the current craft seem to lose their contents
<pianojosh_>
but when loading a full craft (not merging into an existing one) seem to work fine
<NathanKell>
pianojosh_ update RF
<pianojosh_>
i had done that, and it seemed to fix that, but then all SRBs including separatrons seemed to be unfueled, and some pods had monopropellant rather than a real fuel, so i rolled back
<pianojosh_>
OH
<pianojosh_>
there was a release earlier today
<pianojosh_>
i missed that completely, i will try that, thanks!
<NathanKell>
oh. Then this may not fix it, if you’re already rolled back
<NathanKell>
hmm
<pianojosh_>
if it helps, the empty tanks always seemed to be node-attached ones, not surface attached
<pianojosh_>
i couldnt figure out why my RCS tanks always seemed fine, but main engine tanks didnt
<pianojosh_>
and that seemed to be the common demoninator, since i changed one of my stages to have a node-attached RCS tank rather than surface attached and it too ended up empty when loaded from a subassembly
<pianojosh_>
regardless, i'll try today's release and report back
<ferram4>
NathanKell, are you still working on proc tank masses?
<NathanKell>
In the back of my mind. Not gonna do anything with it until after RP-0 release
<ferram4>
Well, then kindly file these links in th eback of your mind:
<Starwaster>
nathankell yes to MLI int count... uh let me think about the SOFI... right now it's thickness/conduction factor
<NathanKell>
ok. Just add all the stuff you need to that UI section and I’ll hook it up
<NathanKell>
(to the UI)
<Starwaster>
ok
* Starwaster
automagically clicks on NTRS links...
<ferram4>
All of the SP-8xxx reports are basically "how tos" on designing parts of space vehicles.
<ferram4>
And I haven't found one that hasn't been uploaded yet.
<Pap>
Soooooo, NathanKell, some (most) of these tanks are not supposed to be specific types of tanks. They are designed to be tanks that can be switched to different style of tanks. How do we want to handle these?
<NathanKell>
Frankly I’d just kill most of them :]
<NathanKell>
Like all the stock squad/SXT/VSR tanks
<NathanKell>
I mean, the radial ones are intersting
<NathanKell>
but the FL-T and Xwhatever tanks can die
<NathanKell>
lemme load up
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<soundnfury>
NathanKell: btw, I note that you can't take a Refresher course until your proficiency has expired. In particular, that means you can't take it just as you're _about_ to expire
<soundnfury>
probably not a problem, but I thought I'd mention it
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: Yeah. I agree that’s problematic.
<NathanKell>
I guess we need a ExpireLog as well as RewardLog
<NathanKell>
But we don’t have OR prereqs, only AND prereqs
<NathanKell>
hmm
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
gonna do the orbital launch I think
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<soundnfury>
NathanKell|Twitch: question, is training enabled in sandbox/science games?
<soundnfury>
(maintenance isn't, and since the training UI is reached through the maintenance UI...)
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
soundnfury: It’s disabled in sandbox, enabled in science sandbox
<NathanKell|Twitch>
check the enum cast at the top of CrewHandler
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7QwO
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 0d7b0c6 NathanKell: Add sounding payloads back to Tank-I
<github>
[RP-0] ec429 opened pull request #751: Training UI (Developmental...maintUI) https://git.io/v7QwG
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* soundnfury
doesn't know the enum values by heart, so can't parse that 120
<soundnfury>
but yeah, the maint UI (and thus, indirectly, the training UI) can only be opened in Career games, so we need to do something about that
<Bornholio>
settings screen.
<Bornholio>
like TACLS or some others
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: this isn't a settings thing, it's for selecting 'nauts and sending them on courses.
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
soundnfury: Sorry, I meant to look at the enum definition, but I forgot you probably just use vim or emacs :]
<soundnfury>
no, I use MonoDevelop
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<soundnfury>
(because I have yet to see a command-line build system for .NET that doesn't blow goats)
<soundnfury>
besides, I wouldn't use vim *or* emacs, real programmers use ed ;)
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<Gus>
what is the altittude for geosync? I get two seperate numbers from the interwebs
<NathanKell|Twitch>
soundnfury: :D :D
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Gus: wherever 23h56m4.096s is
<Gus>
NathanKell|Twitch: ,rude :P
<ferram4>
Gus: 35786 km altitude. The other is probably that plus the 6378 km that Earth's radius is so it's not altitude above SL so much as radius from center of mass.
<Gus>
thanks ferram4 , you the man
<Gus>
nott that NathanKell|Twitch ain't, haha.
<Gus>
You guys have wasted hundreds of my hours, and I salute you all for it :)
<soundnfury>
Gus: you could waste even more hours by joining in with the development ;)
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<Gus>
Well I need a better list of what you guys want, that'd help me.
<Gus>
I can't think of what kinda stuff I should model for you.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Buttless engines is the common denominator atm
<NathanKell|Twitch>
aka ‘engines’ not ‘engine plus part of a tank’
<Bornholio>
NTR! with correct nozzles :P
<Gus>
NathanKell|Twitch: I totally agree - the one that really breaks my heart is the KW ariane parts
<Gus>
that upper stage engine's butt just does not STOP
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<ProjectThoth>
!tell Rokker beach
<Qboid>
ProjectThoth: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Rokker>
no
<Qboid>
Rokker: ProjectThoth left a message for you in #RO [14.08.2017 01:37:25]: "beach"
<SpecimenSpiff>
gah, it wants to do spins on the runway
<SpecimenSpiff>
i've re-placed all the landing gear three times in different spots, still cant get it to go straigh
<NathanKell>
there we go, going live
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<ProjectThoth>
Star Clipper was a cool concept.
<SpecimenSpiff>
I love the star clipper
<SpecimenSpiff>
I should really stop playing with planes, they hate me
<SpecimenSpiff>
I just rolled over the divot in the stock runway and the runway blew up
<ProjectThoth>
I wanna, like, see the straight winged DC-3 in that config.
<ProjectThoth>
No pain in the ass lifting bodies, all the advantage of drop tanks.
<ProjectThoth>
I just have no idea how to estimate pmf in a winged vehicle like that.
<Gus>
Hey lamont I noticed your autopilot repeatedly got very confused when I was trying to get it to fly the Atlas 2AS
<Gus>
It wouldn't transition through the steps correctly - stayed on "waiting for launch" even several seconds into the flight
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<Gus>
lamont: on the plus side, it just flew Ariane 5 PERFECTLY.
<Gus>
20t payload to 330km circular orbit, over 800 meters per second of spare delta v. Not that one can actually use that, with a non restartable engine.
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<Gus>
NathanKell: I'm gonna go to bed shortly, but would you guys mind if I went through your ariane 5 configs tomorrow? Your numbers seem off, based on the payload planners guide.
<Gus>
Also, is there a way tto make GH2 or GO2 thrusters for reaction control?
<NathanKell>
Gus: Please do have a look!
<NathanKell>
And yes there is
<NathanKell>
RF can generate GOX/GH2 from boiloff, and you can set the thrusters to use that
<Gus>
Okay, I'll get on that tomorrow - have a good evening, folks!
<Gus>
o7
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<lamont>
hmmm 4GB KSP.log, probably should have turned off PEG debugging while i was out having dinner tonight…
<Qboid>
lamont: egg left a message for you in #RO [13.08.2017 19:11:40]: "Чебышёв has been tagged, can you make a macintosh build at that tag before the egglipse so we can include it in the main release?"
<lamont>
Gus: if it didn’t get past “waiting for launch” then it got stuck somehwere in the non-PEG parts of the autopilot code
<lamont>
i’d suspect that’s another manifestation of the “MET” bug where physics jolts on reloading a scene at the launchpad and all kinds of shit behaves weirdly
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<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn lamont
* Qboid
gives lamont an int bot
* egg|zzz|egg
pokes lamont with principia
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to dev: https://git.io/v773O
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to dev: https://git.io/v773S
<github>
RealismOverhaul/dev d296d40 Pap: M55 RSSRO Tag Missing
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<borntosleep>
I like how Pap does RO pushes in his sleep
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<Pap|Sleep>
Bornholio: probably why it needs to be fixed so often!
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<Bornholio>
The sleeeper wakens
<Pap>
lol
<Pap>
Bornholio: I have not looked into the RSS issues, going to take a look now
<Bornholio>
haven't had time to try and duplicate in clean install
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<Pap>
Bornholio: The configs look correct. I will try to test this evening as well with a clean install. Were you on 1.3 or 1.2.2?
<Bornholio>
1.2.2
<Pap>
ok
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<awang>
egg|afk|egg: You're logged in on two computers?
<Bornholio>
egg is a bunch of bots, yes for sure bots
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
o/
<Pap>
Bornholio is telling the truth
<Pap>
o/ Hypergolic_Skunk
<a_schack>
First ever TF engine explosion :o
<a_schack>
And Agathorn had been so nice to me and only gave me two failures in 51 launches...
<Bornholio>
.cheers.
<Bornholio>
don't worry agathorn gave me the failures you didn't get
<a_schack>
Compared to what I normally get, especially with the god awful WAC, this has been a blessed playthrough
<Bornholio>
a couple playthroughs ago i had 19 straight one or more failures doing a A-9/XASR bumper
<a_schack>
Ouch
<Pap>
Bornholio: That would be a scary-expensive issue nowadays
<a_schack>
But yeah, a couple of playthroughs ago I had nine failures in the first 11 launches
<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* How are you finding the money situation to be? I think 450% is too much (that is what I am playing with now). What are you at and how are you finding the balance? Have I maybe just not purchased enough upgrade points?
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Bornholio>
half of them still did the mission. Kind of wish you could get more than 10k dpu and push the failure rate down somewhat further. But i guess thats what additional lower failure rate motors are
<a_schack>
But I suspect some hidden code to only fail when you've got approaching expensive contracts - like now
<Bornholio>
I found that triple mounts are safer than dual, as they can usually gimbal a bit and still go straight. Sometimes on a tight design, the low throttle one is worse since its seems like its consuming full fuel rate
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
450% was definitely too much. I toned it down to 400%.
<Bornholio>
yeah after the first few missions more than 400% is plenty cash
<Bornholio>
300% was painful so i quit that :)
<Pap>
So 350-400% might be looking like the sweet spot?
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
sounds reasonable to me. the next time I have to start a new career, I'll try 350%
<Bornholio>
which .dll should i change out for testing RSS on aclean install pap?
<Pap>
Bornholio, Hypergolic_Skunk, EVERYONE...I am looking for some science ideas on what can be done in Science Labs that is not the current system. The current system makes balancing science returns basically impossible, so I want to come up with a new system. Has anyone played with M.O.L.E? I know he uses a little different system. I also know that Station Science is different, but it is not based on realism so can't be used.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
never heard of it
<Bornholio>
are you mainly trying to eliminate the unlimited repeats for more points from new labs?
<Bornholio>
or is even a basic lab once too many points?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
maybe have payload-types like 'hamster's, 'cats', 'mice' etc.. you get the idea.. to perform station-science experiments with them. have a module to which you need to transfer the different life-payloads, and then get slow science from that
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
that would make repeated flights to the station necessary and rewarding
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
(obviously inspired by Dragon :P)
<Pap>
Bornholio: Essentially Science is unlimited through the labs. I can bring all of the science experiments (there are a lot more now) to the station, leave them there and let them generate science for me, basically forever. I know there are some limitations since Life Support will need to be brought up there, but otherwise, once you hit Station timeframe, you are generating unlimited science
<Pap>
I like Hypergolic_Skunk idea, it is similar to Station Science
<Pap>
Essentially, you have to generate science from running specific experiemnts with plants or animals, etc
<Bornholio>
skunk likes grinding :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
YES! :D
<Bornholio>
I think that labs should just increase the one pass max amount from science by 50% or some other amount that is reasonable. Otherwise the have little use outside of an easy to get to orbit
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
the journey is the goal, or however that proberb goes in English
<Bornholio>
ie LEO
<Pap>
The problem Bornholio is that I cannot transfer that science properly. 99% of all science is done with unmanned probes. How does it then transfer that data to the station instead of back to the ground?
<Bornholio>
that part of science labas never made sense to me. a manned lab is able to make adjustments on the fly to what tests are run and what is important.
<Bornholio>
probes + labs seems like you would get even less usefull results, except maybe with speed since you don't have things like curiositys long delay between commands
<Bornholio>
but thats not even true when the probe sends data to an LEO lab
<Pap>
Yeah, at that point, it just makes sense to send the info back to Earth since the labs can be much more powerful. Labs are only used to test how microgravity and space environments affect physical things
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<Bornholio>
or they represent local human control and extended adjustablity. Ability to correct for discrepencies on the fly instead of limited to what is installed in firmware.
<Bornholio>
needs planet name assignment and lots of result cleanup if you don't want kerbal humor
<Bornholio>
which .dll should i change out for testing RSS on aclean install pap
<Pap>
Correct Bornholio, but to begin, I will probably just default all of them to one thing. Does anyone actually read the science descriptions, or are you all too busy trying to transmit as fast as possible like I am?
<Bornholio>
what is this reading thing?
<soundnwork>
Pap: I read some of them
<Pap>
Good to know
<Pap>
Bornholio: it would appear that the **fixed** DLL for 1.3 was removed from RSS. You should be able to run it in 1.2.2 with the current files in Master
<Bornholio>
then i'm having problems with it. doesn't even load it. i'll troubleshoot more
<Bornholio>
i should only need RSS +Textures right?
<Pap>
Bornholio: Kopernicus and ModuleFlightIntegrator as well (MFI is bundled with Kopernicus)
<Bornholio>
ah, thats what i was missing. using this link seeing a lot less .dds in the folder 4 files instead of 42 from my dev install is this an append i should install over an existing?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: I used to always read every description, until I encountered generic non-changing descriptions too many times
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Scott Manley also always reads them :)
<Pap>
Bornholio: delete all previous textures before installing the new ones
<Pap>
All the textures got moved into PluginData (other than Earth and the Moon). That means they should not load until needed, thus freeing up some memory
<Bornholio>
k
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<Pap>
OK, this new information I just got about the science experiments from Angel-125 can be ground breaking. I can set experiments to require any resource we create. I can set the experiments to have to be above / below a certain altitude. I can set them to only work while ORBITING, or ESCAPING, etc.
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
\o/
<Pap>
Therefore, I could create a resource called MassSpectrometry. I could have an experiment called Planetary Mass Spectrometry that requires the following resource MassSpectrometry, 50. The science experiment part could generate the MassSpectrometry resource at 1 unit per day once in orbit. That means that as soon as 50 days have passed, the experiment would be considered "complete" and the science could then be returned.
<Bornholio>
lots of featureless planets and moons in tracking station, scrub and try again this evening
<Pap>
hmmmm Bornholio that doesn't make a lot of sense. I will try this evening as well
<Bornholio>
adn completely missing mercury :P
<Pap>
^^^ Very small, not that important of a planet ;)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it still packs a punch, being as heavy as it is :p
<Rokker>
stratosleep: wake up
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
SpaceX webcast is live
<Pap>
sURE IS
<Pap>
Rokker: SpaceX!
<Rokker>
stratosleep: WAKE UP
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<Rokker>
stratosleep: I will call ur damn phone
<Pap>
This commentator seems to be much better than the guy before? Is it the same guy?
<Bornholio>
crap missing it
<Bornholio>
you cannot do that with Tank,I
<a_schack>
That landing never seizes to amaze me
<Pap>
Nailed it
<Pap>
for sure a_schack
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<Rokker>
Pap: holy shit man
<Rokker>
Pap: which stream were you watching
<Pap>
Not the technical one, I didn't look for one since they haven't had them
<Rokker>
Pap: nasa or spacex i mean
<Pap>
Oh, SpaceX
<Rokker>
Pap: dude go back and watch through the footage from the nasa stream
<Pap>
Damn, better>
<Rokker>
Pap: they filmed stage sep FROM THE FUCKING GROUND
<Pap>
Woah
<Sarbian>
Not the first time
<Rokker>
Pap: IT WAS LIKE WATCHING KSP
<Rokker>
Sarbian: idk, this was better quality than in the past imo
<Sarbian>
A past one even had the 1st stage turning on camera
<Bornholio>
rokker they film all of the new video in KSP :)
<Rokker>
Sarbian: this one did too
<Pap>
How much delta-v does the Dragon have? Is it all done with the SuperDracos?
<Rokker>
Bornholio: who do they think they are, the CBC?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I'm actually happy I'm launching like SpaceX now, using PEG
<Rokker>
Pap: dragon doesnt have superdracos
<Sarbian>
oh, let me check that then :)
<Rokker>
only dracos
<Pap>
Ah, regular dracos
<Rokker>
Pap: and it doesnt have much, a few hundred m/s maybe?
<Rokker>
Pap: nasa tv footage is showing the s2 flipping for deorbit burn
<Rokker>
looks like
<Pap>
It has to raise the AP another 200 km and then is going to return, how much does that require?
<Rokker>
Bornholio: idk, they like hearing indians talk about them
<Sarbian>
go back 12 mins
<Pap>
Jesus, now I need to mute these NASA people.
<Rokker>
and thats not racist, its literally like 80% indian
<Bornholio>
and flat earthers and
<Rokker>
yeah
<Rokker>
Bornholio: the iss livestream is worse
<Rokker>
its like 50-60% people looking for UFOs
<Bornholio>
most of the ISS "Live" streams i have seen are spoofed by someone making money off them and looping it
<Rokker>
Pap Bornholio yeah go back like 13 minutes on the nasa stream to see stage sep
<Pap>
Just watched it. Awesome
<Sarbian>
Indeed. Thx for the heads up Rokker
<Rokker>
its like a ballet with kNs of thrust and tons of fuel being burned
<Rokker>
a really weird ballet
<Pap>
Can someone answer this for me...Why does the SpaceX telecast always sound like they are recording the audio from the cafeteria as they are cleaning up the utensils after breakfast?
<Bornholio>
they are
<Rokker>
Sarbian: they also had some good footage of it falling through the air supersonically
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: did you ever watch a Blue Origin launch? I LOVED the sounds from the booster... so guttural
<Pap>
No, never saw one Hypergolic_Skunk
<Rokker>
Hypergolic_Skunk: i never realized how high the angle of attack is was the F9 comes in
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Rokker: it's like a parabola, reversed
<Rokker>
Hypergolic_Skunk: nah the angle of attack
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ow
<Rokker>
like that was 15 degrees from the velocity vector
<Sarbian>
Seems I have some work to do on SmokeScreen before I can fake their videos :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but Falcon 9 isn't really a lifting body?
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but I guess any little bit will help
<Rokker>
Sarbian: nah, what do you think they used to fake this footage
<Sarbian>
My dev release ? ;p
<xShadowx|2>
Sarbian: need ice particles floating off at decouple too ;p
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
xShadowx|2: you mean birds
<xShadowx|2>
and coolrockets to work on PParts ;3 /nudge
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
they're really confident in the structural integrity
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<Theysen>
Hypergolic_Skunk, I think I can't get it right because of the super high densities they put in their rockets, we don't have those in RO right
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<Bornholio>
yeah if anything i'm disapointed in current tanks is i have no option for a stronger tank, any slight maladjustment and the whole thing pops apart so i can't use and higher drag aspect ratio even after speed drops a lot
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Theysen: also I guess you need kOS or kRPC to program first stage return and landing?
<Theysen>
Hypergolic_Skunk, I just wanted to build it, not return it :D :D But I'll ask on CRP or RF if we can add those as resources and specify the engine configs to those
<Theysen>
the Merlin 1D++
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Theysen: and then launch it with PEG? sounds epic!
<Theysen>
I see if that works
<Theysen>
it has so high thrust you can't fail it basically manually XD
<Theysen>
Falcon is a very good beginner rocket like Titan
<Theysen>
for RO
<Theysen>
gosh it's ugly because it's so long
<Theysen>
Hypergolic_Skunk, did you catch that bit about the trajectories they showed? It looked like they launched into a huge inclination difference for ISS
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Theysen: but then the launch window wouldn't be instantaneous, would it?
<Theysen>
do they have so much delta v on the drgagon to change on orbti?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I don't think so
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
SpaceX launches into the ISS plane, for sure
<Theysen>
so if that *was* the ISS trajectory there was like 15° difference
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Theysen: can you make a screenshot of what you saw?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I think they adjust for the rotation of Earth
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so that second trajectory you see is Dragon on its second orbit
<Theysen>
that was when it was in orbit
<Theysen>
and thus it wouldn't change by 15°
<Theysen>
normally their graphics are 100° correct
<Theysen>
s/°/%
<Qboid>
Theysen meant to say: normally their graphics are 100% correct
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
an inclination change makes no sense, as they launch from a lower latitude than the inclination of the ISS
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so I always assumed that's just the second time Dragon comes around
<Theysen>
yes, what I didn't catch during stream was IF this line is the inclinatio of the ISS
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I don't think so :) but better ask Rokker
<Rokker>
can we ban NASA from naming things
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
speak of the devil :P
<Theysen>
Rokker, you know what that line shows?
<Rokker>
Theysen: pretty sure its just the ground path of the launch
<NathanKell|WORK_>
That shows their original launch azimuth I presume, not the resultant orbital plane
<Qboid>
NathanKell|WORK_: Pap left a message for you in #RO [14.08.2017 15:06:06]: "How are you finding the money situation to be? I think 450% is too much (that is what I am playing with now). What are you at and how are you finding the balance? Have I maybe just not purchased enough upgrade points?"
<Theysen>
Why should there be such a huge difference
<NathanKell|WORK_>
Pap, Bornholio I find 300% to be too much, personally. But I did a fair few suborbitals with a Bumper + X-1 cockpit so that's like 50k funds right there easily
<NathanKell|WORK_>
Theysen: because there's about 350m/s from the Earth at that latitude
<NathanKell|WORK_>
15 degrees (66 instead of 51) sounds about right
<Theysen>
NathanKell|WORK_, I'm not talking about the faint little line under the actual dragon path but the one which seems to be an orbit around the earth many many degrees off from dragons path
<Rokker>
Theysen_: flightclub's predictions seem to imply that its a groundtrace
<Theysen_>
but that's strange then, why would the orbit change it's inclination that much
<Theysen_>
welp whatevs, we know it launched into 51,6° and whatever they show there doesn't matter
<Rokker>
Theysen_: that is a 51 degree inclination
<Rokker>
or at least flightclub says it is
<Theysen_>
The one where it says stage 2 definitely, but the other orbit?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Theysen_: they cannot really show the Earth rotating in the same picture
egg|afk|egg is now known as egg
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so they project it onto the orbit
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
unless they used animated stuff
<Theysen_>
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
<Theysen_>
screw this, the orbit wouldnt change god damnit :P
<Theysen_>
mind blown now, thanks
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:P
<Rokker>
Theysen_: thats the rotation of the earth
<Theysen_>
they just show the ground path where dragon comes along on the next orbit in the same reference frame of the current one but with earth's rotation
<Theysen_>
of that one orbit ^
<NathanKell|WORK_>
Pap: I would definitely reduce the sounding rocket payouts slightly, Crewed Karman by a *lot*, and the crewed suborbitals by a good bit. If we can limit X-Plane High to planes only that will also help a ton
<Rokker>
Theysen_: idk, doesnt look weird to me
<Theysen_>
Rokker, of course because if they let earth rotate under the orbit line (think like KSP) you wouldn't be on that orbit line on the next time you come around without a plane change
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<egg>
!seen lamont
<Qboid>
egg: I last saw lamont on [14.08.2017 06:52:33] in #RO saying: "i’d suspect that’s another manifestation of the “MET” bug where physics jolts on reloading a scene at the launchpad and all kinds of shit behaves weirdly"
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<egg>
awang: yes, I have a webchat tab open at work
<egg>
awang: and a client on my phone
<egg>
Theysen_: you can see the same thing with principia if you select the right frame :-p
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
woah
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I just discovered Atmospheric Autopilot
<Pap>
You hadn't used it before?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
no, i trimmed manually D:
<a_schack>
Hypergolic_Skunk: That thing is the best thing since aerodynamic bread
<Pap>
Great, now when you report on your career, it is just going to be be....Well, I flew a plane here. I flew a plane there.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:D
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
'Atlantic Crossing: check'
<awang>
egg: Ah. I never noticed you having two clients at the same time before
<awang>
Hypergolic_Skunk: I agree with a_schack
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
this game just keeps on giving :')
<a_schack>
Yes, it gives so much I'm resolving to manually taking... like forgetting 500m/s on a GTO stage and having no RCS fuel for the insertion stage :s
<a_schack>
In fact, I'd say RO is pretty good at making me feel like a spanner
<NathanKell|WORK_>
So you're saying you find it a...wrenching experience?
<a_schack>
I guess bad puns are allowed on mondays... :]
<a_schack>
Btw, did the RD-0105 have terrible verniers IRL too? I find that they can hardly hold any attitude
<a_schack>
My upper stage just flipped three times before PEG managed to stabilise it
<a_schack>
Or well, I should say MJ attitude control
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
a_schack: show us your craft ;)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
how high was MECO and sep? when did the fairing come off?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
and do you use ullage motors or RCS?
<a_schack>
MECO is at ~90km, and I found I don't need active ullage for the upper stage - MJs autostage does it fast enough it lights before fuel becomes unsettled
<lamont>
.
<Qboid>
lamont: egg left a message for you in #bottorture [14.08.2017 17:54:09]: "Чебышёв has been tagged, can you make a macintosh build at that tag before the egglipse so we can include it in the main release?"
<a_schack>
Fairing sep is after upper stage ignition
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
then i don't understand why it would flip
<a_schack>
Well, it flips because PEG is still actively pitching when staging, but it's very little and the verniers should be able to catch it I'd think
<lamont>
good job git handles UTF-8
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
a_schack: what if you decrease the pitch-time?
<a_schack>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Oh, this is after the manual pitch program when PEG's taken over
<a_schack>
Hypergolic_Skunk: I've actually resorted to sticking LR-101's on the upper now, because the RD-0105's 0.8kn verniers just aren't enough to counter it
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<lamont>
does the pitch actually change when you stage? like is nonsense in the lower stage causing PEG to issue weird commands?
<a_schack>
Well, it seems that up until the point of staging, PEG is slowly pitching down, which causes the "downwards roll" when staging
<a_schack>
Then of course PEG wants to adjust trajectory based on the new stage, but can't get the attitude control, which seems to be because the verniers are so weak
<a_schack>
Mind you, after 3 flips, it regains control and I have enough excess dV in the upper to get into a perfect orbit
<lamont>
so my guess there is that there’s lift going on and the rocket is not stable so it aerodynamically fips
<a_schack>
Because tbh, PEG is amazing and the big reason I finally came back to KSP
<awang>
PEG?
<Qboid>
awang: [PEG] => Powered Explicit Guidance
<awang>
Ah
<awang>
Handy
<lamont>
what altitude is the flip happening at?
<a_schack>
~90km
<lamont>
hrm
<a_schack>
If I stick LR101's on it, it doesn't flip
<lamont>
ahhhh
<a_schack>
I'm pretty sure it's by no means PEG's fault
<lamont>
yeah, i think you’ve diagnosed it correctly then
<a_schack>
It's just the verniers on the RD-0105 being so weak
<a_schack>
The LR101s are 6 times stronger
<lamont>
there still might be something that could be done with PEG to zero out the lift and freeze the pitch before staging
<lamont>
although in this case probably just freeze the pitch
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<a_schack>
Yeah, that's the only thing I can think of - which might generally be a good idea
<a_schack>
Just a quick freeze of pitch ~5s before staging
<a_schack>
Maybe even less
<lamont>
yeah i’ve thought about that, because that is what the actual rockets tend to do, something similar is mentioned in a lot of papers
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<NathanKell|WORK_>
oh huh
<NathanKell|WORK_>
I had two clients
<Bornholio>
NathaKell|WORK is a bot, i can tell
* egg
pokes lamont with a stick
<lamont>
its compiling, takes awhile...
<egg>
\o/
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<egg>
thanks
<egg>
have a wpn
<lamont>
all your 87 integrators...
<egg>
!wpn lamont
* Qboid
gives lamont a honed parabolol/license hybrid
<egg>
lamont: only 57 :-p
<xShadowx|2>
NathanKell succeeded in cloning himself, but he clone didnt last long :(
<egg>
lamont: also your PEG is good
<Bornholio>
is PEGAS?
<lamont>
i’m still fighting with shuttle-PEG
<Bornholio>
.sad
<egg>
lamont: what about IGM
<lamont>
PEG is simpler and better than IGM
<egg>
moar libraries though :-p
<lamont>
heh, yeah, i doubt i’m going to do that
<lamont>
i’m never going to fully finish the existing Atlas-Centaur PEG
<egg>
lamont: speaking of which we'll have to write some more integrators (we only have integrators for ODEs of the form y"=f(t,y) atm, and we need support for y"=f(t,y,y'))
<lamont>
hah yeah
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<soundnfury>
NathanKell|WORK_: what's the next feature request for UI? ;)
<Rokker>
soundnfury: you should have tried ustream
* soundnfury
stabs Rokker
<soundnfury>
(it's fine, I'm watching it now)
<Bornholio_>
wonder who i am right now
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<Rokker>
soundnfury watch both the nasa and spacex footage
* soundnfury
grumbles about plebcast km/h
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
km/h is still tons better than mp/h
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but yes, m/s would be noice
<Bornholio>
need it in furlong/minute
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<Gus>
Does anyone know how best to put AEIS into 1.2.2?
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: s/minute/fortnight
<Qboid>
soundnfury thinks Bornholio meant to say: need it in furlong/fortnight
<Bornholio>
yeah for those who drink more than me
<Bornholio>
but in base 12/5
<NathanKell|WORK_>
soundnfury: hmm! A way to get around the proficiency/refresher issue we discussed yesterday, although that's not a UI thing per se.
<NathanKell|WORK_>
For smaller potatoes, going through and killing off all mentions of "course' and replacing with training. This is not a school. :]
<soundnfury>
... well, it's a _training_course_
<NathanKell|WORK_>
for bigger ticket UI, a list of all active toolings since I'd like to add maintenance costs to them
<NathanKell|WORK_>
so also a button per tooling for removing it
<soundnfury>
ah yes
<SRBuchanan>
Huh. SSTU's textures for the standard and spherical fuel tanks are not loading... trying to see if SSTU works with a stock installation next.
<NathanKell|WORK_>
maintenance would be shown as a big sum per diameter, and then little bits per length
<Sarbian>
o/
<NathanKell|WORK_>
yo!
<NathanKell|WORK_>
or do I mean goodnight?
<Sarbian>
Not yet, only 10pm
<NathanKell|WORK_>
soundnfury: Hmm. That would make things a bit unfair however, so we probably also need maintenance per unlocked part. Because keeping toolings for the LR79 should also cost.
<NathanKell|WORK_>
you know...I think this is a can of worms we shouldn't open right now
<soundnfury>
NathanKell|WORK_: fairy nuff
<NathanKell|WORK_>
Really has to be done as a manufacturing mod, I think, not as maintenance for tooling but not other parts we use
<NathanKell|WORK_>
otherwise it heavily penalizes procedurals
<Bornholio>
UI showing what tooling i have.
<NathanKell|WORK_>
Ah, true
<NathanKell|WORK_>
*that* at least we do need
<NathanKell|WORK_>
and it should be available from the VAB/SPH too
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<Gus>
So, I went through the Ariane 5 configs from the Real Scale Boosters pack, and I think they have about 6% too much fuel in their tanks
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<awang>
Wait, how frequently are instantaneous launch windows required?
<awang>
Today's launch is the first I've heard of it
<Pap>
awang: Pretty much always for ISS missions (I think)
<soundnfury>
yeah basically unless you have some spare performance for a dogleg, the planes have to line up (after accounting for differences in nodal precession during phasing/chasing orbits)
<Bornholio>
game is not happy if you accidentally use RP-0 master with RO dev
<awang>
Ah
<Pap>
Help needed please...What are some experiments that would /should require long term (not instantaneous) operation?
<awang>
I thought that there almost always was enough spare dv for a dogleg
<awang>
Pap: Moonquake?
<Pap>
awang: There is "some" but doglegs are very expensive
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<awang>
Evidently a lot more expensive than I expected
<lamont>
that thread is suggesting its more about not having “RAAN” steering
<awang>
Huh
<awang>
Didn't expect software to be a limiting factor here
<awang>
Although it makes sense given the apparent complexity tradeoff
<soundnfury>
yeah, as certain people in here could tell you, PEG is hard enough as it is xD
<lamont>
“ Centaur’s heritage of meeting the inertial orbit placement requir ements associated with planetary missions makes it uniquely capable of
<lamont>
targeting to an orbit RAAN (or range of RAANs dictated by actual launch time in a launch window) in addition
<lamont>
to the typical target parameters. “
<Bornholio>
ULA we can throw dV away willynilly cause Hydrolox, :P
<lamont>
actually all these guidance algorithms have yaw steering / RAAN — the original PEG that you’re all using is based on the Altas-Centaur direct launches to the Moon
<Gus>
Does anyone know where we got the numbers for the ariane 5 configs? They all conflict with the payload planners guide.
<Gus>
Or,
<Gus>
half conflictt? Half fit the guide perfectly, the other half fit wikipedia very well.
<Pap>
Gus: you can look at the history, but it was probably from multiple people / sources
<Gus>
Thanks Pap , that makes sense. I'll probably just go with the guide, haha.
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<SRBuchanan>
Hey, SSTU users, what release are you using?
<SRBuchanan>
My SSTU standard and spherical tanks are not loading their textures at all.
<NathanKell|WORK>
It's not compatible with RP-0 dev btw
<SRBuchanan>
They work fine in a vanilla 1.2.2 installation.
<SRBuchanan>
I am aware.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: can you set it to non-RP0 for now actually?
<NathanKell|WORK>
SRBuchanan: ok
<Pap>
So sad :(
<SRBuchanan>
I'm using them in my sandbox.
<SRBuchanan>
I think it may be something about my load order or process. They were working fine yesterday. I have installed some mods since then but none of them should be related.
<SRBuchanan>
I installed KoS and PEGAS. I tried installed the SLS parts pack but that caused a crash on load, leading to my uninstallation of same.
<Gus>
Oh my god I hate this nonsense
<Gus>
I have now found 5 seperate numbers for the thrust of the HM-7B
<Sarbian>
lamont: I made the attitude control modular and selectable from the window. After more testing I think the MJ controller handle itself better in vacuum and the KOS one in atmo
<Pap>
Yep Gus welcome to the world of "fudging" numbers
<Gus>
I think the correct number is 67kn, the number found on the payload planners guide - that number also coincides nicely with the stated burn mass/time of 14.9t in 945 seconds
<Bornholio>
if you can get a test stand ASL thrust and an burn time to empty you can eliminate some of the fudge (salesmen using Ideal ISP etc)
<SRBuchanan>
Wait until you try making a realistic BE-3U or BE-4.
<SRBuchanan>
Doing that properly involves a lot of math and WAG.
<Gus>
Would anyone veto changing the thrust value on the HM-7B to 67kn?
<Gus>
I trust ESA's PPG more than random astronautix websites.
<Bornholio>
written by salesmen
<Gus>
Bornholio: still official documentation, rather than a third party website
<Pap>
And a third party website with no sourcing listed...
<Bornholio>
yes when no source listed (call BS)
<SRBuchanan>
Astronautix is sometimes great and sometimes confusingly sparse.
<Gus>
besides, our current numbers HAVE to be wrong. The burn times are wrong, and we know the burn times from friggin' live footage.
<SRBuchanan>
It also indexes some things oddly. Looking up the RS-25 is a mess since it lists it as the SSME instead and has not been configured to realize that they're the same thing.
<Pap>
Yes it does
<SRBuchanan>
That's a recent update then. I used to have issues with that.
<Bornholio>
burn time for a rocket may not be the burn time they use. since extra for correction and waste must be in the tankage
<SRBuchanan>
It's generally a bad idea to let a rocket run its bunkerage completely dry. Bubbles and vapor in the feed lines can lead to catastrophic failures.
<Gus>
But if we go by their thrust numbers and their burn times we get the mass they specify
<Gus>
if we go with our numbers and our mass numbers we get longer burns
<Pap>
Sorry SRBuchanan I was agreeing with you
<Bornholio>
yup if its internally consistent its better than not
<SRBuchanan>
Heh.
<Pap>
^^^^^ consistency is key
<Gus>
The PPG is very internally consistent. Our numbers aren'.
<Gus>
Again, written by salesmen
<Gus>
but that doesn't mean they're liars.
<lamont>
Sarbian: something to consider is that the space shuttle just directly integrates how fast its angular velocity should be and doesn’t use a PID controller at all
<SRBuchanan>
Once a platform goes operational, they kind of have to be honest about the payload to a given orbit at the very least.
<Pap>
If what is written by their salespeople match the information we have from watching their flights -> Sales person data is good
<Bornholio>
yup. if you can put your cites in the changed configs, that will help someone looking to confirm wheree you came from
<Gus>
But I am getting some major war flashbacks to when I had to actually find multiple coinciding sources for pre-ww2 military vehicles - that was hell.
<Sarbian>
lamont: hum, shouldn't it generate some oscillation ? direct control in MJ did not really work well from what I remember
<Pap>
Gus, may I have you reference some of the Coatl Aerosapce congigs. PhineasFreak does a really good job of documenting sources
<SRBuchanan>
PEGAS is built on the Shuttle guidance algorithms and does not use PID. It actively redefines its own target within the user's set inclination, altitude, and LAN limitations.
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<egg>
Gus: does bnumbers or capcomespace have numbers? they're generally well-sourced
<SRBuchanan>
The biggest misclassification/oversimplification is that a lot of databases list the Apollo SPS exclusively as the SPS and not also as the AJ10-137.
<lamont>
SRBuchanan: PEG and the attitude control in the shuttle are separate
<Pap>
Actually Gus, the file you are editing was done by Phineas. All of his sources are listed on top
<SRBuchanan>
It's an exoatmospheric-only guidance program. You have to give it a preset, explicit gravity-turn program for the early flight. True guidance takes over when you tell it to; generally around 45 to 50 kilometers up.
<lamont>
SRBuchanon if you look at page 4-12 of that PDF section 4.6 on “Steering Commands” the whole section is TBD
<egg>
Gus: hm, inconsistent flow rates from those two sources there
<egg>
(wait what? that figure doesn't even make sense)
<B787_Work>
Ugh
<egg>
that / is probably a typo and it's 14.86
<egg>
so 0.0148 t/s or thereabouts
<Gus>
right, but that gives a full minute of additional burn time
<SRBuchanan>
PEGAS does assume that the Earth is flat and gravity has a uniform direction, though. It corrects for that using an approximation method called conic state extrapolation. I have no idea how well that will interface with Principia.
<B787_Work>
I really should remove bnumbers from my ping list
<Gus>
than the stated amount from ESA
<Pap>
Is there boiloff that needs to be taken into account?
<Pap>
Are our resources masses accurate?
<Gus>
Pap: the fuel masses are
<Gus>
the dry masses aren't
<NathanKell|WORK>
egg: tragically we have been finding bnumberz is *less* accurate than 'nautix :(
<egg>
NathanKell|WORK: what about capcomespace though
<Gus>
NathanKell|WORK: but like, why not just trust official documentation released by the people who build the thing
<NathanKell|WORK>
ah that is probably fine. I've just grown very wary of bnumz
<SRBuchanan>
Alright, SSTU refuses to load those two specific parts properly (the Modular Standard Fuel Tank and Modular Spherical Fuel Tank). The models and performance are fine; they just do not load their textures.
<Gus>
*shrug*
<SRBuchanan>
This issue only appears in my Realism Overhaul game. They work fine on an otherwise-vanilla installation.
<SRBuchanan>
They were working fine for me yesterday as well.
<egg>
Gus: and yes, this page got broken by their newest redesign, but they probably haven't copied the specs of their own engine off astronautix, so that number has some credence to it
<SRBuchanan>
Hmmm...
<SRBuchanan>
Argh.
<Gus>
No I completely agree on that front, egg
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<Gus>
but it still doesn't jive with the burn time. I refuse to believe (without evidence) that they save over ONE MINUTE of fuel in reserve for every launch.
<Gus>
That seems actually insane, even for the french
<NathanKell|WORK>
[14:47] <Gus> That seems actually insane, even for the french <<< first non-superpower in orbit. I wouldn't put anything past them. :)
<Gus>
NathanKell|WORK: drink enough wine on the job and you're bound to accomplish great things
<NathanKell|WORK>
As I recall it was the Russians who had problems with drinking the fuel.
<SRBuchanan>
Ah geez. I hate having to go back to using Procedural tanks. SSTU tanks look better and don't hurt my frames as much.
<SRBuchanan>
Well, they *would* look better if they weren't neon pink.
<Gus>
yeah, but russians have been known to eat shoes, so it isn't too out of character for them
<egg>
Gus: so what figure do you have for fuel mass in the ESC-A?
<SRBuchanan>
'I've burned more alcohol in sixty seconds than you've ever sold across this lousy bar.'
<egg>
(and whence)
<egg>
SRBuchanan: surely the bartender will take that as a challenge
<egg>
serve martinis by the Atlas tank
<Gus>
I have 14.9 tons of hydrolox
<egg>
Gus: I'm seeing 14,4
<egg>
(I'm seeing it from capcomespace, so with a comma :-p)
<SRBuchanan>
I probably messed it up. I can't figure how installing KoS or PEGAS would have changed it, though.
<Pap>
Bornholio: I aim to please (unless you are Hypergolic_Skunk, then I aim to torture)
<SRBuchanan>
I also installed an SLS parts mod, but then completely uninstalled it when it caused a crash on load.
<egg>
Gus: is the second stage burn time constant across flights? maybe they tweak it slightly for heavier payloads (the payload does vary a bit), and the thrust of course remains the same since it's the same engine (so 64.8 it is)
<SRBuchanan>
So I'm at a bit of a loss.
<SRBuchanan>
I may try a total reinstallation... urgh.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: one day...
<SRBuchanan>
Welp, time to clean up my download folder and prepare my internet connection...
<SRBuchanan>
...and my posterior...
<SRBuchanan>
...and probably grab a bottle of ibuprofen for the massive headache I am about to have.
<SRBuchanan>
Since I am doing a full reinstall anyways, does anyone have any good recommendations for crewed command modules mods?
<egg>
so for V183, ESC-A ignition H0 + 9 min 06 s, cutoff H0 + 24 min 52 s; for V157, ignition H0 + 8 min 57 s, cutoff H0 + 24 min 31 s; for VA 225, ignition H0 + 9 min 01 s, cutoff H0 + 25 min 06 s
<soundnfury>
NathanKell|WORK: tooling dia' and lengths are all in metres, yes?
<egg>
Gus: so those burn times are 946 s, 934 s, 965 s (someone please check my calculations), which probably explains things: the burn time varies depending on the mission
<Rokker>
Bornholio: holy shit, the shot at 3:50
<Rokker>
Bornholio: the B-1s taking off with dusktime vegas in the background
<Bornholio>
you getting a Bone-r again
<Rokker>
Bornholio: you know it
<Rokker>
Bornholio: seriously tho, thats a beautiful shot
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: Instead of having Level 2 Crew Reports and Level 3 Crew Reports, what if I instead created special Experiments for the crews to run? So the Level 2 (Gemini/Voskhod) would have Space Adaptation Study, Power Tools Evaluation and Star Occulation Navigation. They would require a specific amount of time to accomplish. Helps with some of the whack-a-mole stuff
<Rokker>
Bornholio: nice roll control for a plane with no ailerons
<Bornholio>
always laugh at the pod they have to mount though, loved doing exercises out at nellis, they got all the russian hardware to test againts
<Rokker>
Bornholio: red flag or something else?
<Bornholio>
yup, they are a really good spectrum of AA systems setup and the guys running them are relly good from practicing
<Rokker>
Bornholio: yeah, ive watched that imax film they made about it in 04
<Bornholio>
Of course they would never lock onto civillian craft flying around LV...
<NathanKell|WORK>
soundnfury: yep, all meters
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Sounds good to me! I don't care how, I just want there to be a point in using advanced capsules and mature capsules
<NathanKell|WORK>
(and anything in an advanced capsule should be available in mature too, so you're not penalized for lacking FASA/RN/etc to give Gemini/Voskhod)
<Rokker>
Bornholio: rip, the norks are getting ready for an IRBM test
<Rokker>
accordign to senior intelligence
<Pap>
Then I think those 3 are good. I will look for other ideas as well
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<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: Did you see any of the earlier discussion about Space Station science?
<NathanKell|WORK>
About resources and times?
<NathanKell|WORK>
I saw it in scrollback yes
<Pap>
Yes, essentially using the MOLE system instead of the stock system
<Bornholio>
well rokker i'm out of the loop but i did hear a lot of air traffic today
<Rokker>
we really need to do more than just shouting at eachother over it
<Rokker>
and they dont care about sanctions
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<Pap>
I thought John Oliver explained it rather well last night (until the weird ending)
<Bornholio>
US upped a lot of assets to QRF positions. My Naval buddies are getting threatened with lengthened cruise times also
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Yes, anything to sanify the lab would be good
<Rokker>
NathanKell|WORK: I hate this russian company, MKB Fakel
<Rokker>
they make fakel
* Rokker
waits to see if anyone gets the brilliant wordplay
<Bornholio>
.sigh
<Rokker>
Bornholio: what would you rate that joke
<Bornholio>
just below dirty uncle
<Pap>
^^^^ that is really low
<Rokker>
ill take it
<Bornholio>
mx X-15 orbital pod LV is solidly at 1.5xshuttle total cost with rollout :/
<Bornholio>
my
<Rokker>
nice
<Bornholio>
costs x12 to rollout the parts cost now
<NathanKell|WORK>
That seems excessive yes
<NathanKell|WORK>
Oh! For the todo list Pap. We need to go through those combined parts and set special multipliers
<Bornholio>
7k build cost 84k rollout
<NathanKell|WORK>
I did one for the Mk1 pod but obvs others are needed
<Pap>
Ah, to put all the pieces of the X-15 together as one rollout cost?
<NathanKell|WORK>
No, I mean like parts that have avionics, habitable, reentry, and other tags all together
<NathanKell|WORK>
They multiply the total cost of the part
<NathanKell|WORK>
(in BP)
<Bornholio>
best ratio a 1 fund aerobee core laying on the pad costs 6593 funds to rollout yeah!
<NathanKell|WORK>
What the heck level pad?
<NathanKell|WORK>
so consider a Mk1 pod that doesn't have any avionics or heat shield. It's only 2x cost. Add a heatshield and it's 4x cost (2x habitable, 2x reentry rated)
<NathanKell|WORK>
add avionics and now it's 8x cost!
<NathanKell|WORK>
Whereas if you made it out of an avionics ring, a habitable space, and a heat shield, the whole shebang would only have a 2x multiplier
<Bornholio>
level 6, but its my only pad, so what else can i do :P
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pay 20k funds to buy a new pad :P
<NathanKell|WORK>
they're dirt cheap
<NathanKell|WORK>
Frankly 6 million is a steal for a launch from a level 6 pad
<NathanKell|WORK>
it might be too low
<NathanKell|WORK>
Basically you're launching an aerobee from LC-34
<Bornholio>
where do you buy a pad
<NathanKell|WORK>
in the KCT VAB tab in space center, at the bottom, it has < Padname (Rename) (New) >
<NathanKell|WORK>
click New
<NathanKell|WORK>
once it's built you can swap between them with the arrows
<NathanKell|WORK>
and rename as desired
<NathanKell|WORK>
you can upgrade them individually
<ferram4>
NathanKell|WORK, I have good news on the F-1 efficiency front! I know where it sucks balls! I found a paper on injector design that had the reaction efficiencies for various engines. Nearly everything else had 95-98%, the F-1 had only 92%.
<NathanKell|WORK>
This playthrough I've been building a new pad for every new LV :]
<NathanKell|WORK>
ferram4: : Aha!
<NathanKell|WORK>
Was that to combat instability?
<ferram4>
And I think it's just that the orifices are too large.
<lamont>
how much to launch an Estes Alpha III from LC-34?
<ferram4>
So the droplets are larger, so they don't burn as quickly.
<ferram4>
I don't think it's to combat instability, they had much worse reaction efficiencies with injectors that introduced instabilities.
<github>
[RP-0] ec429 opened pull request #752: Add UI to display unlocked toolings (Developmental...maintUI) https://git.io/v75X2
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<ferram4>
NathanKell|WORK, but anyway, if I add a 95% mixing efficiency, and set the nozzle throat to 0.882 so that the nozzle exit is actually the internal of the bell rather than the 3.7m external, guess what numbers I get? :D
<NathanKell|WORK>
Noice!
<ferram4>
Overall, I think that if I can nail down the mixing efficiency to... something reasonable, I'll have brought the errors in the resulting values down to < 2%.
<Pap>
If anyone can find out how much the different experiments cost on Galileo and Cassini, I will give you a virtual hug (or fist bump if that is your thing). I have searched and searched and cannot find anything
<ferram4>
The turbopump values are far more error-prone, but thatnkfully those are small.
Pap is now known as Pap|AFK
<SRBuchanan>
Hey, what's the save location for custom part categories?
<Rokker>
Bornholio: Mattie just made a statement prolly related to the reported mobile missile launchers
<Rokker>
mattis
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<Bornholio>
yeah, mattis is the man too. Combination of sanity and balls of cast iron
<SRBuchanan>
One of the few folks in this administration I actually unreservedly respect.
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<Bornholio>
well hatred of public officials without actually understanding what they are doing seems like the common mode for both sides or the party system.
<Bornholio>
media induced frenzy of stupidity
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<SRBuchanan>
Never said I hated the current officials (well, except maybe Ajit Pai). Just that Mattis is one of the few I fully respect.
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<Bornholio>
well considering i participated in FCC ISP nuetrality study in the past i'm going to agree with that one :)
<Bornholio>
he's not corrupt he's just from chicago
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<Rokker>
Bornholio: it's a requirement of living in Chicago to be corrupt
* Rokker
stares at the governors of illinois
<Bornholio>
yeah one of my good friends is a lawyer there, his comment is always you don't want a good lawyer, you want one who is friends with the judge
<Rokker>
Bornholio: when your states governors have a 57 percent incarceration rate over the last 57 years, you might wanna look at who you are voting for
<SRBuchanan>
That's a lot of 57's considering Heinz is from Pittsburgh.
<SRBuchanan>
Illinois also has the nation's second-highest federal spending per capita.
<SRBuchanan>
Alaska is higher due to its combination of small population and large amount of infrastructure for fossil fuels.
<Bornholio>
how do i select my newly created launch pad in VAB?
<SRBuchanan>
I think the button for it is in the lower-right menu.
<SRBuchanan>
I've never done it myself though. Try at your own peril.
<Bornholio>
hmm
<Bornholio>
guess i'll have to watch Nathan next time he's twitch, cause i got nothin
<NathanKell|WORK>
Bornholio: in the KCT VAB tab in the space center
<NathanKell|WORK>
at the bottom, where you chose to build a new pad
<NathanKell|WORK>
there are now < and > buttons
<NathanKell|WORK>
(as I mentioned above, I thought?)
<NathanKell|WORK>
use that to select the new pad, then choose 'rollout'
<NathanKell|WORK>
it will roll out to the selected pad
<NathanKell|WORK>
k, gotta go, o/
<Bornholio>
i would love to say i can see that looking at the scree and seeing no arrows
<NathanKell|WORK>
is the pad done building?
<NathanKell|WORK>
check the Tech tab to see when it completes
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<NathanKell|WORK>
Bornholio: When it completes there will be << and >> buttons at the bottom of the VAB tab