<lamont>
nothing much but it reverts the edit boxes to being type | global so it doesn’t reset to defaults every new ship
<Pap>
Nice lamont
<Pap>
Oops Rokker, I guess if you are going to host porn, just fess up
<Rokker>
Pap: their building caught fire
<Pap>
They also just got caught being almost exclusively funded by Porn
<Rokker>
Pap: whatever people wanna spend their money on
<Rokker>
not my place to judge
<Pap>
Oh, I am fine with it as well, but the CEO just denied it in public and now is in a little bit of PR trouble
<Rokker>
Pap: im more concerned about their decisions to remove peoples patreon based on certain political opinions
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<Pap>
Yeah, I think it is all part of the same issue now, not necessarily running your business with honesty to the public
<xShadowx>
that same 'public' also watched said hosted porn, and poo poo on them after the trouble starts, another reason to not listen to 'the public'
<Pap>
Once again, let me state clearly, I do not care at all. I was just commenting
* xShadowx
doesnt care either aside from pointing out people are idiots
<xShadowx>
:)
<Pap>
lol
<ProjectThoth>
What'd I miss? Pornhub got sued?
<Pap>
lol, no, Apparently, the Patreon building caught fire, on an (I think) unrelated note, their CEO got caught lying about the fact that most of their proceeds come from porn sales
<ProjectThoth>
Ohh.
<xShadowx>
you missin the big fire - governments removing all porn from the net, go cry!
<xShadowx>
aww i type too slow :(
<ProjectThoth>
So where do they get their money from?
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<xShadowx>
[18:24:26] <@Pap> They also just got caught being almost exclusively funded by Porn
<xShadowx>
since you logged in after :)
<xShadowx>
now onto a more important note - why does my kerbal not walk on the ocean floor......
<Bornholio>
need thatn bouyancy mod
<xShadowx>
oooooo another LS effect, the bends
<lamont>
nitrogen narcosis
<Bornholio>
another patreon mod, the Bendovers
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<lamont>
oxygen toxicity
<ProjectThoth>
xShadowx: Oh, I misinterpreted that statement as the CEO said most of their proceeds *did* come from porn.
<lamont>
hypercapnia
<Pap>
Yeah, I didn't write that very clearly
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<Bornholio>
when i went for flight training we got to go in an altitude chmaber, pretty cool, but the also had a hyperbaric chmaber for treating bends and other conditions
<Starwaster>
so like pages 7-10 is the good stuff as far as general apperance and layout of structures
<Starwaster>
I can actually model well enough but I don't know how to do animations and the time I'd have to spend learning how would detract from other things I need to do, such as getting back to Deadly Reentry
<gazpachian>
Yeah, that's sort of my weakness too
<gazpachian>
Like, I can get the animations done, but not entirely sure how to port it into Unity
<xShadowx>
blender makes anims fairly simple, <- -> keys to a frame, adjust model to new position, click button to make key frame heh
<xShadowx>
gazpachian: dont port to unity, blender + export script, right to ksp :)
<gazpachian>
see, I just need to read up on a step by step guide! I thought you had to go through unity to set up part tools bindings for actions and whatnot, but you're saying that's the roundabout way?
<xShadowx>
blender+script is 'my' way, and i consider it good enough, unity scary and headachy ;p
<gazpachian>
starwaster: I'd probably sink way too much time getting a cloth-like deployment like on page 9
<gazpachian>
most ksp inflatables have fairly dull animations, but that looks really cool
<xShadowx>
ya, most anims people do are 2 keyframes, fully packed vs fully deployed
<gazpachian>
65 tons, oh my
<xShadowx>
shouldnt have eaten that donut
<Starwaster>
not all of that is going to be landed mass
<Starwaster>
also it has two HIADs... the first one is just for aerocapture and then they ditch that one
<Starwaster>
the reason they ditch it is because once it captures into Mars orbit it's going to sit in a parking orbit waiting for the crew and once the first HIAD has deployed they're worried it will become brittle sitting in space for long periods
<Starwaster>
the air leaks out of it and if it's become brittle then they worry it wont survive a second inflation
<gazpachian>
So that would require two models, since the one for entry sits in line with the rigid heat shield?
<Starwaster>
not necessarily, you could use the same model for both. Except maybe a blander hard cap for the aerocapture model
<Starwaster>
or not
<gazpachian>
I mean, you'd want the protruding legs, gaps for the engines and whatnot
<Starwaster>
yeah
<Starwaster>
maybe the cap would be a separate piece? Or not?
NathanKell|AWAY is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<gazpachian>
I'm also curious if the engines are exposed for descent? Heat load shouldn't be that many orders of magnitude higher than F9
<gazpachian>
o/
<Starwaster>
Exposed for at least part of the descent since it will be doing supersonic retropropulsion
<gazpachian>
yeah, but will they ditch parts of the rigid heat shield to expose the engines or are they exposed from the start?
<Starwaster>
I'm assuming shielded part of the time and then the covers jettison to expose the engines and legs
<gazpachian>
I would think so as well
<NathanKell>
lamont: Woot on not having 75/55 !
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<Starwaster>
page 11: heating of cargo may be possible... and people keep posting in DRE's thread that the small heat shield doesn't protect their entire stack on reentry
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<Starwaster>
WHY STARWASTER WHY???? I CANT LAND MY 0.625m SCIENCE STAAAACK
<Starwaster>
ok some dramatization there but even so
<Starwaster>
also, that's not even DRE's fault so get a bigger heat shield!
<Pap>
BTW, I got all the costs and entryCosts added to the sheet from the Engine Configs. I left comments for you on the ones to look at
<NathanKell>
HURRAH
<NathanKell>
<3
<NathanKell>
Ok I think today I'm going to go through the engine parts and try to assign sane entrycosts
<NathanKell>
For instance we have through 1964 J-2 totals of ~140,000
<NathanKell>
~250mil for the M-1.
<NathanKell>
(90 paid, rest projected)
<NathanKell>
~500mil for F-1
<NathanKell>
(wow)
<NathanKell>
That was over like 7 years tho
<Pap>
Yeah, the numbers that we know accurately from sources are very high compared to those that we do not
<blowfish>
hey, developing the largest thrust chamber ever is no trivial task
<blowfish>
I'm developing a set of modular upper stage SRBs for SSTU. Not sure how RO compatible they'll be, at least initially, but I wanted to see if y'all had any input on the lineup
<NathanKell>
Ugh I guess we're going to have to limp through release with the entrycost system I have, not a rewrite. Really need to rewrite it but don't have the time :(
<NathanKell>
I was designing it in my head last night instead of sleeping. Same with a manufacturing line system.
<Pap>
NathanKell: Not enough time to do what you want to do?
<NathanKell>
Yeah. I need to rewrite the whole entrycostmodifier system (in RP-0 and RF both)
<NathanKell>
So it operates on a tag system, and any given thing is made up of children
<Pap>
Ah, where is that located?
<NathanKell>
i.e. S-3 would be Navaho_turbopump as well as LR79_base. S-3D would be S-3 (i.e. Navaho... and LR79_base) and S-3D. LR79-NA-9 would be...and so forth. And then LR89-NA-3 would be Navaho_turbopump, LR89_base, LR43-whatever, and LR89-NA-3.
<NathanKell>
so you could easily state what 'sub entry costs' make up an entry cost (for parts and configs both--perfect interoperability)
<NathanKell>
Then we could just assign costs to each of those things.
<NathanKell>
the current stuff is in the ECM cfg file and the EntryCostModifier stuff in the RP-0 plugin (for parts) and in RF (for configs).
<NathanKell>
Wait, this might actually be simpler than rewriting things, although (SORRY BLOWFISH) I would need to release RF for 1.2. taniwha, would you hate it if we had a version file?
<NathanKell>
Starwaster, you too--I ask taniwha cuz I know he was opposed before, dunno if you and blowfish are :)
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<NathanKell>
Actually, even if I just rewrite it RP-0 side it'll be worth it I think
<NathanKell>
At least it can reference RF configs and their entry costs
<Pap>
How do we then determine all of the parts that make up the other parts? Just tag them in the Sheet?
<NathanKell>
It's not parts that make up other parts, it's just virtual things
<NathanKell>
like the turbopump on all the early Rocketdyne engines
<NathanKell>
or the RD-107/8 turbopump
<NathanKell>
Or LEO-rated ablator
<Pap>
Sorry, that is what I meant, we'll just have to add the "pieces" that make up each part?
<NathanKell>
Yeah
<NathanKell>
But that's frankly easier than the current ECM system
<NathanKell>
because with this we can just reference things
<Pap>
Yes, the current system is a little tedious
<NathanKell>
we can decouple part IDs from costs
<NathanKell>
and don't have to write tons of modifiers
<NathanKell>
so I could just go in and change LR79 costs and it'd be applied to all LR79s
<Starwaster>
wait whut? opposed to what?
<NathanKell>
Starwaster: Right now RF doesn't have a .version file
<blowfish>
NathanKell: the far one is pretty heavily based on the Castor 30/XL, althrough the RCS placement is different
<Starwaster>
I don't have particularly strong feelings about a version file, though if we do have one, we can't forget to maintain it when we do releases or it confuses things that use it
<NathanKell>
Different Antares :P
<NathanKell>
Starwaster: Indeed.
<blowfish>
ah yeah, "me and my modern stuff"
<Starwaster>
... don't swim inside pyrosomes...
<NathanKell>
I barely get past 1965. You expect me to make it to Castor 30!?
<blowfish>
wonder if we could make the version file part of the build system
<Starwaster>
probably... that's been done before.
<NathanKell>
blowfish: Easily
<NathanKell>
PP does it, no?
<Pap>
blowfish: I believe that Agathorn has done something like that
<NathanKell>
RO does it
<NathanKell>
RP-0 does it
<Pap>
Ah, ^^^ there you go
<blowfish>
I got 100% automated builds working with B9 Part Switch (and no dedicated server) but I'm not sure how much we want to depend on a specific CI system
<blowfish>
also haven't solved packaging dependencies yet
<lamont>
3 solid days of transcribing space shuttle PEG from NASA/MATLAB/kOS into ruby/kRPC and its starting to take shape
<lamont>
i might have my first syntax error to debug tomorrow
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<Pap>
What is the reliabilityMidH in the Engine Configs for Test Flight?
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<NathanKell>
Pap: It sets the midpoint of the curve
<NathanKell>
The reliability curve has x = data, y = lerp between min and max reliability.
<Pap>
got it, thanks
<NathanKell>
By default the curve has a midpoint at x=0.25, y = 0.75
<NathanKell>
so you get 75% of the increase at 25% of the data
<NathanKell>
you can vary that X value that way.
<NathanKell>
(you can also vary the Y value with V instead of H)
<NathanKell>
I wanted to represent those engines requiring more flight testing
<Pap>
Ah, ok, so it pushes it back further, got it
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<NathanKell>
Ah crud.
<NathanKell>
RF doesn't declare a KSPAssembly.
<NathanKell>
should be fine tho
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<NathanKell>
yeah, this is fairly fast
<NathanKell>
Pap: Also I figured out how to handle batteries changing mass over time :)
<blowfish>
since when do batteries do that?
<Pap>
That is great NathanKell!
<NathanKell>
We can use the partupgrade system and RF's support of tank overrides
<NathanKell>
so the ec TANK in a ServiceModule proc part can get better mass/cost numbers later
<blowfish>
oh, changing with tech level
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<Pap>
That should work perfectly
<NathanKell>
maaaan I wanna convert RF over to this system now...
<NathanKell>
oh well
<NathanKell>
it's needed less there
<NathanKell>
only the RL10 really suffers, IIRC.
<NathanKell>
and that only for CECE
<NathanKell>
and who gets there in RP-0 :D
<NathanKell>
Pap: do you recall any other entry cost multipliers in engine configs?
<Pap>
No, the RL10 was the only one that was different like that
<NathanKell>
ok
<NathanKell>
cool
<NathanKell>
then we're safe (ish)
<blowfish>
Why are all the versions in RF's AssemblyInfo preceeded by a zero? (I see where, I'm wondering if there's a specific reason)
<NathanKell>
Same as in RP-0, we don't have a MAJOR
<NathanKell>
just a minor
<Starwaster>
.... movie called Twelve Feet Deep... about a pair of women who get trapped in a swimming pool... and can't escape..... wtf are movie makers really this desperate for ideas?
<blowfish>
but why?
<NathanKell>
not sure, I was just copying common practice at the time I think (and KSP's own practice at the time, this was pre-1.0)
<NathanKell>
Starwaster: wut
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<xShadowx>
Starwaster: 100 years of making every idea into film, past 50 years of remaking those ideas, past 20 years of remaking those remakes, original ideas dont exist anymore :P
Pap is now known as Pap|Sleep
<Pap|Sleep>
Goodnight all
<xShadowx>
\o
<NathanKell>
night Pap!
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<NathanKell>
!tell Pap* wow that didn't take long. All done.
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell>
!tell Pap* well, apart from the configs and the testing that is. But this is sooooo much cleaner \o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7gGE
<github>
RP-0/Developmental e66d1e0 NathanKell: Rewrite RP-0's entry cost modifier system to something much cleaner. NOTE: no dll since I'm not actually shipping binaries until the configs are ready.
<NathanKell>
blowfish ^ that's what I want to change RF's system to.
<NathanKell>
Argh missed one thing.
<blowfish>
what does it do exactly?
<NathanKell>
blowfish: Redoes how ECMs work.
<NathanKell>
Are you familiar with how they work now?
<blowfish>
sadly no, haven't looked into RP-0's code much
<NathanKell>
RP-0 and RF use identical code
<NathanKell>
that's why I ask :)
<NathanKell>
I didn't figure you'd know RP-0's code
<NathanKell>
basically, you can have certain entry cost subtractors (and optionally a maximum for subtraction) and then certain entry cost multipliers
<blowfish>
ah
<NathanKell>
a thing's entry cost is, [its original entry cost - min(maxsubtract, sum of each subtractor where the subtractor's key is itself already unlocked)] * product [ each multiplier, where that multiplier's key is itself unlocked]
<NathanKell>
It's often used as follows:
<NathanKell>
consider configs a, b, and c.
<NathanKell>
b has ecm subtractor of (entry cost of a) from its entrycost.
<NathanKell>
c has subtractors equal to both a and b.
<NathanKell>
In the case of, say, the LR79 it's more complicated, since it gets a moderate subtraction from equivalent LR89 configs and the full value of predecessor LR79 configs, up to a maximum of [all previous LR79 configs + some portion of its equivalent LR89 config]
<NathanKell>
the multipliers are mostly used for parts, we set equivalent parts (SSTU H-1 vs FASA H-1) to have 0 multipliers with respect to each other.
<blowfish>
make sense
<NathanKell>
This system is super cumbersome, and every part's copy of it has to be changed when another identical part is added.
<NathanKell>
And you can't easily represent the LR79/89/105/H-1 lineage
<NathanKell>
Because they all shared the same turbopump, and that had upgrades over time (until H-1)
<NathanKell>
but they also had individual components
<NathanKell>
So I rewrote it completely.
<NathanKell>
Now, each thing's entry cost is computed from its ecm tags.
<NathanKell>
so you'd say, e.g. LR79-NA-11 ecm = LR79-NA-11_ecm.
<NathanKell>
And LR79-NA-11_ecm would be defined as: navaho_turbopump_1961, LR79-NA-9, LR79-NA-11_base.
<NathanKell>
Ah wait I can simplify it
<NathanKell>
remove the 'base
<NathanKell>
instead it'd be something like ECM_LR79-NA-11 = 5000, navaho_turbopump_1961, LR79-NA-9
<NathanKell>
so the 5000 is the actual indepent cost of that upgrade.
<NathanKell>
the turbopump_1961 would be defined as, e.g., 20000, navaho_turbopump_1960
<NathanKell>
and so forth back to the first navaho turbopump which might cost 150000+
<NathanKell>
It's basically just a tree, where each leaf can be locked or unlocked
<NathanKell>
make sense?
<blowfish>
I think so
<NathanKell>
It means parts and configs can easily share entry cost data, too, now
<NathanKell>
because the entry cost to a given engine config is the exact same thing as a part that has only that config...
<NathanKell>
and vice versa
<NathanKell>
It solves, e.g., the problem of the SSTU Agena.
<NathanKell>
Where there's a different part for the first two configs and for all other configs.
<NathanKell>
It makes that case super simple: instead of having to do some pretty crazy hijinks, you can just rely entirely on the engine configs.
<NathanKell>
so an engine part's entry cost becomes no more and no less than the entry cost of its first engine config.
<blowfish>
well, it solves the cost problem, I guess sorting the engine configs is still a question
<NathanKell>
sorting?
<blowfish>
well, not sorting
<blowfish>
but figureing out which ones to include
<blowfish>
since the engineType system mostly relies on every version having the same configs
<NathanKell>
Ah yes
<NathanKell>
that's a different ball of wax, but (happily) would no more have entrycost implications.
<NathanKell>
because the system would handle those cases transparently as I mentioned :)
<NathanKell>
(as long as pap's sheet records what the first engine config available to that part is, and we set the part ecm tag to that config)
<NathanKell>
The main advantage is building upwards rather than subtracting downwards. That makes life *so* much simpler.
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<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7gnu
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 89b5a0b NathanKell: Haha whoops. Actually unlock things. Also clean up how tags are defined so you can just implicitly have a cost, you don't have to define a leaf explicitly.
<blowfish>
yeah, additive entry costs are probably a lot easier to deal with
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<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Developmental: https://git.io/v7g4O
<github>
RP-0/Developmental 6b3c97f NathanKell: Start writing some new-system entry costs
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<Maxsimal|Work>
o/
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<Maxsimal|Work>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Added my planes contract ideas issue to Pap's on RP0, feel free to contribute
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
cool!
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<SlainteMaith>
Wow. I got banned from the X-Plane.org forum for seeking support of a product I Paid For. Just saying that their policy was silly that I had to make two posts (about nothing I cared about that needed to be 'approved' by a moderator) in order to get 'approval' to make the post I wanted to make. I got a warning for this. Then I defended myself further (and at no point was foul language used--nor was I even rude about it) and got banned. Hope Pay
<SlainteMaith>
s
<SlainteMaith>
Eh?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
make a new account, apologize (even if you have nothing to apologize for), explain your case calmly, wait for a result, rinse, repeat
<SlainteMaith>
Already did calmly explain my case. I got banned.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yeah, but how calmly?
<SlainteMaith>
Only I criticized their silly policy for being ...silly.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
don't insult when you want something
<SlainteMaith>
I said, "your silly policy..." That's as offensive as it got.
<SlainteMaith>
Welp, I'll be nice to Paypal, then.
<SlainteMaith>
Because they can cancel payment.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I have to admit - SSTU tanks not only increase the frame-rate, they also look gorgeous!
<SlainteMaith>
I don't think I've ever wrapped my head around SSTU.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
took me a while as well
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<SlainteMaith>
And currently I don't have a functional version of RSS/RO installed. I'm not sure what versions are current.
<SlainteMaith>
...and oh the tedium of installing. =)
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<SlainteMaith>
And I got my money back from X-Plane.org. They can suck it. =)
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Pap|Sleep is now known as Pap
<Pap>
o/
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [03.08.2017 06:04:58]: "wow that didn't take long. All done."
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [03.08.2017 06:05:10]: "well, apart from the configs and the testing that is. But this is sooooo much cleaner \o/"
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
\o
<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* I saw a lot of the work that you did! I wish that I knew what pieces went to what engines and I would start placing them in the sheet. (Obviously some of them are easy to determine).
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
o/ Hypergolic_Skunk
<Pap>
SSTU is the single best mod in all of KSP (After MJ, KER, RO, RP-0, RSS)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
^
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I still use Proc Tanks for small spherical RCS tanks, but yeah... for the rest, SSTU is the way to go
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: by the time you get to Space Stations, I should have those configured as well
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Same for me. Except I have found myself using the SSTU Modular Radial Spherical tanks more now
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it's a weird thing... it's late 1977 now, I just missed the Grand Tour of the Solar System window, and I just unlocked Orbital Rocketry 1963
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but things are picking up speed now
<Pap>
Woah, how is that possible!?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I didn't want to start comsats before I had reaction-wheel tech :p
<Pap>
Yeah, if you don't put a ton of points into Research and don't upgrade the R&D Building earlier than you are used to, it can take a while for research
<Pena>
Dang it, no orbit yet.. but at least Jeb's alive :-)
<Pena>
getting those MJ ascent parameters right sure takes some jiggling
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: I also guess the trick is to do stuff with low-tech that I save for later.. such as inner planet flybys, that people like NK can do with ducttape, fireworks and a bit of spit :p
<Bornholio>
If you can do a lunar orbit mission you can do venus and mars flyby, and maybe a orbit/capture
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
except you need a better antenna than the Comm16 for that :p
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but yeah, what's really kept me back in the beginning was that I didn't use KAC, so I only ever really did one thing at a time
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
and maybe not forget to research a proper antenna early on :)
<Pap>
Maxsimal: I am really loving the new Sounding Rockets contracts!
<Pap>
Even though I have managed to game the system a little bit by clicking fast enough
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Hi! What do you mean, manage it by clicking fast enough?
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Oh, collecting more than one contract to do before it clears them - yeah I dunno what to do about that. That seems to be more of a KSP issue, any ideas?
<Pap>
I can select a Sounding Rocket (Difficult) and Sounding Rocket (Intermediate) (or any other combination) at the same time if I click accept fast enough on the second one
<Pap>
That is definitely a KSP CC issue
<Pap>
Here would be my idea, have an Intermediate Payload Resource, Easy Payload Resource and Difficult Payload Resource
<dxdy>
is that really something that needs any fixing or accomodation whatsoever?
<dxdy>
I mean the cheat menu is there anyways, it's not exactly an issue either way
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<Pap>
dxdy: You don't have a bad point, it is probably just over-engineering the thing. If people really want to accept more than one at a time, then it is up to them to police themselves
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Yeah you could do that, I'm not sure if we should have that many kinds of resources though. The best solution would be if the contract could 'create' a temporary part that's there just for that mission, and built with the right amount of resource.
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<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* I am trying to work on the Procedural Parts turning them into PARTUPGRADES like we discussed. In the ProcSizes.cfg file in RP-0, there is @PROCFAIRINGS_MAXDIAMETER, MINDIAMETER and PROCROCKET_MINDIAMETER, MAXDIAMETER. However, I cannot find these referenced anywhere else. Where are these values processed?
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Maxsimal>
Pap: As another option I could require between X and Y amount of soundingrocket payload, which would also fix the cheat in 99% of cases.
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<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: What do you mean?
<Qboid>
NathanKell|WORK: Pap left a message for you in #RO [03.08.2017 15:10:27]: "I saw a lot of the work that you did! I wish that I knew what pieces went to what engines and I would start placing them in the sheet. (Obviously some of them are easy to determine)."
<Qboid>
NathanKell|WORK: Pap left a message for you in #RO [03.08.2017 16:28:37]: "I am trying to work on the Procedural Parts turning them into PARTUPGRADES like we discussed. In the ProcSizes.cfg file in RP-0, there is @PROCFAIRINGS_MAXDIAMETER, MINDIAMETER and PROCROCKET_MINDIAMETER, MAXDIAMETER. However, I cannot find these referenced anywhere else. Where are these values processed?"
<NathanKell|WORK>
(for tell 1, I mean)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: For tell 2, it's in ProcParts in a rando cfg as I recall
<NathanKell|WORK>
err
<NathanKell|WORK>
procfairings*
<Pap>
Ah, thanks I will search
<NathanKell|WORK>
It's something like sizelimits.cfg ?
<NathanKell|WORK>
I forget
<Pap>
That's alright, now that I know where to look, I'll find it.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: : common.cfg in ProcFairings
<NathanKell|WORK>
forgot I had an RO install kicking around here
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: So what did you mean about tell 1? If it's not an obvious engine name it's not something to be assigned, it's backing
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Let me quickly go over the idea of how the new system works then :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: So, instead of the old system where we have a fixed cost and subtract things from it, here we build up
<NathanKell|WORK>
So any part's entrycost at any given time is the sum of the non-unlocked bits that go into that entry cost
<NathanKell|WORK>
So for example an LR79 is defined as, say, 15000 just for itself, plus the Navaho Turbopump.
<NathanKell|WORK>
If you have an LR79 unlocked already, then it's free (obvs) because the 'LR79' tag itself is unlocked. If not, 15,000 gets added to the EC (remember, EC starts at zero) and then we check the LR79 tag's children
<NathanKell|WORK>
It has one child, Navaho-TP
<NathanKell|WORK>
If that's unlocked, EC stops at 15000
<NathanKell|WORK>
if it's not unlocked, then its amount (80000) is added to the running total and its children are checked
<NathanKell|WORK>
It has one child, Navaho-PhaseIII-TP. If that's unlocked, we're done. If it's not, its cost is added (50000) and its children are checked
<NathanKell|WORK>
It has no children, so we're done.
<NathanKell|WORK>
If you then go and unlock an LR89, well, the Navaho-TP was unlocked already so it's cheap.
<NathanKell|WORK>
If you unlocked the NAA75-110 before unlocking anything else, then the Phase III TP will be unlocked. So when you move up you only have to pay for the regular Navaho turbopump, not the PhaseIII.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Because the 79/89/105 all shared TP development, each successive upgrade to them requires a next generation of Navaho TP, as well as a bit of extra money. That's why I have many years of Navaho TP for them.
<NathanKell|WORK>
This basically allows us to set entrycosts for *subcomponents* of parts, and lets parts share subcomponents.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Make more sense now?
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<regex>
Well. I'm lost, lol.
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: on the entry cost stuff?
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: So the tags themselves are going to declare what is a "piece" of them. So the tag that you write of say an LR89 will tell the entry cost that the LR89 is composed of these "pieces". Since those "pieces" might be part of another tag, say the LR79, it might be unlocked already
<NathanKell|WORK>
yep
<NathanKell|WORK>
The Mk1 pod is maybe a better example
<Pap>
So for the engines, you only need to add the LR79 tag and then that tag knows that there are pieces underneath it that you have already set in the file you created?
<NathanKell|WORK>
The Mk1pod would have some cost just to itself, some from avionics, some from heat shield
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Correct!
<NathanKell|WORK>
So you might have EarlyUpperStageAvionics which the Able core requires, but also the Mk1 pod; and HeatshieldLEO, which everything LEO rated requires (including the DRE heatshields and the Mk1 pod)
<Pap>
Alright, this makes things much easier to configure, you are doing all the hard work, the rest of it is just applying one simple tag to the parts we want to set with entry cost mods
<NathanKell|WORK>
indeed :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
well, technically not to the part alas
<NathanKell|WORK>
that's the sticky part
<NathanKell|WORK>
it has to be in that file
<NathanKell|WORK>
so e.g. in that file you'd have liquidEngine1-2 = LR79
<NathanKell|WORK>
and then also SHIP-LR-71 = LR79
<NathanKell|WORK>
(note: all underscores and periods become dashes)
<Pap>
ohhhh, that makes things a little trickier
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<NathanKell|WORK>
I don't think MM can create keyvaluepairs where the *key* is a variable, instead of the value
<NathanKell|WORK>
if it could we'd be set.
<NathanKell|WORK>
However....*you* can
<NathanKell|WORK>
so here's how to do it
<NathanKell|WORK>
In your sheet, add a column for entry cost tag
<NathanKell|WORK>
then when creating your part patch, have the following excel formula create an extra line:
<NathanKell|WORK>
(note: code will not quite be correct, and let's say this is row 2, partname is in col 1 and entry cost is in column 3)
<NathanKell|WORK>
That will create `SHIP-LR-71 = LR79` in the ENTRYCOSTMODIFIER node
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<Maxsimal>
This system sounds cool. Also sounds like we really should be making KSP 2.0 here ourselves :P
<Pena>
hmm attitude thruster weight in the build menu is 0.003t but middle-clicking the part on the craft gives me 103 kg weight.. KER and MJ really disagree on the weights of this craft too.
<Pap>
Is there anyway you can post the current tags in a Hastebin to share with me? I cannot access Github through my work PC and my Teamviewer (to connect to my Home PC) is down right now
<NathanKell|WORK>
Just tag engines by their type, except engines that only start at a certain config
<NathanKell|WORK>
But put a dash in front, so actually the LR79 should be -LR79
<Pap>
Pena: there is a bug that the weight of the crew is added to every part in the VAB. Once you are out of the VAB, all parts are fine
<Pap>
ok, so use the same name as the Engine Config?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ah, I'm wrong.
<Pena>
Pap: oh that makes sense, thanks. Didn't notice that before with the larger parts.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Best to tag by the engine config name.
<NathanKell|WORK>
first engine config
<NathanKell|WORK>
so e.g. the LR79s would get S-3.
<NathanKell|WORK>
That works for the SSTU XLR81s, because one would get XLR81-BA-5 and the other XLR81-BA-11.
<Pap>
ohhh, interesting, that works since I was going to go through each one and set the base engine config with a flag
<NathanKell|WORK>
:)
<NathanKell|WORK>
This is all about making things more maintainable and interlinked :)
<Pap>
Still put the dash in front?
<NathanKell|WORK>
nope
<Pap>
ok
<NathanKell|WORK>
exactly as it is in the engine config
<NathanKell|WORK>
that means that, transparently, once you unlock one engine that has the config, all other engines that start at that config have their entrycost go to 0.
<NathanKell|WORK>
And in this case do *not* replace _ and . with -
<NathanKell|WORK>
it needs to match the engine config name exactly
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Also sadly given up on Saab's stuff, so I'll write a super-lightweight "set up tooling" mod to handle proc part diameters.
<NathanKell|WORK>
(and SSTU diameters)
<NathanKell|WORK>
And I'm reworking the tank types
<Pap>
Yeah, Saab disappeared as quickly as he appeared :(
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<awang>
Has ResearchBodies been considered for integration into RO?
<awang>
Actually...
<awang>
Never mind; planets were all known by then
<awang>
Might be useful with RSS expanded or something though
<Maxsimal>
Only reasonable thing to do with Research Bodies would be if it unlocked Krash sims on other planets early
<awang>
Or if RSS expanded is ever added?
<awang>
Does anyone actually play with that here?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I do
<awang>
Think ResearchBodies would be interesting to add?
<awang>
If you haven't already done so?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
until 5 seconds ago I didnt know about it
<awang>
:P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
sounds very interesting!
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
my installs are becoming more and more realistic anyway. one day soon I will add Principia, so adding ResearchBodies would not be a stretch
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
maybe in the future stuff like solar panels will have low g resistance, so you'll need to stow them for DSMs etc
<awang>
\o/
<awang>
Well, time to add another thing to look at
<awang>
RSS Expanded works fine in 1.2.2?
<awang>
Looks like it may or may not be updated?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
works fine for me, but someone on here said that it only works partially with Principia
<awang>
Oh?
<awang>
Bad starting positions or something?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
well I'd guess so :p Saturn's system alone is full of moons
<awang>
That's true
<awang>
Wonder if performance would suffer
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
14 moons around Saturn, and that's not even near the IRL number
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
lots of science tho :p perfect for a Cassini-style mission
<regex>
There's not a lot that would be hidden at the start by Research Bodies, even including RSS Expanded.
<regex>
The telescope functionality might be cool though
<awang>
What would the telescopes be used for if not to find new things?
<awang>
I suppose that means most of those bodies were discovered before the 1960s?
<regex>
Did you check out the imgur album on the Reaserch Bodies OP?
* awang
needs to learn more history
<awang>
Blocked :(
<regex>
Ceres and Vesta, for instance, were discovered at the beginning of the 1800's
<awang>
At least until I can convince management otherwise
<regex>
Oh, well, the telescopes reveal finer details with time. You can grey out planets in the map mode.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hmm... what would it take to go into orbit around Halley... :p its orbit is beyond crazy
<regex>
that kind of thing would be useful, I suppose, but hiding planets, except for a select very few tiny moons, wouldn't really be realistic.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I agree, regex
<awang>
Ah
<awang>
Hm
<awang>
Hiding is probably only useful for Kuiper Belt-ish objects?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
and of course Planet X
<regex>
Yeah, like Sedna was discovered in 2003
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I am looking at Sedna's orbit right now
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
wth
<regex>
or Haumea in 2004
<awang>
lol, getting to Planet X
<awang>
That'd be quite an interesting challenge actually
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I actually wouldnt mind having the Kerbol system some lightyears away from the Solar system
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
have multiple stars, use one for a gravity assist :p
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Just call it TRAPPIST-7
<regex>
If it had a realistically dense star and planets, and the system was properly integrated for stability, I wouldn't mind that either
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: :))
<egg>
Hypergolic_Skunk: no, it's just that we have initial positions for only some bodies, additional ones will cause a check failure
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
egg: what does a check failure result in?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
is the object just left out?
<awang>
Hm
<awang>
67P was discovered 1969
<awang>
Although not using a space telescope
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
great, now I'm dreaming of a mod or an update to KSP that simulates planetary collisions. some future tech should then enable me to direct an asteroid towards Earth :D
<awang>
Hypergolic_Skunk: That's called HyperEdit :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
awang: I mean all the kinetic and thermal implications of collisions :p do a little Shoemaker-Levy, watch the fireworks
<awang>
Hypergolic_Skunk: In that case, Universe Sandbox 2 :P
<awang>
But yeah, that'd be interesting
<awang>
That'd have to introduce quite a few new mechanics, though, right?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
have the Bugs throw an asteroid at Buenos Aires
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yeah, I guess so :))
<awang>
Debris/destruction
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Kerbal Universe Simulator
<awang>
Don't get the tsunamis/etc.
<awang>
At that point it's pretty much a different game
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yeah, just day-dreaming
<awang>
I think Principia might do some interesting things, though
<awang>
If it treats planets the same way stock does by having them just pass through each other
<egg>
Hypergolic_Skunk: a check failure results in the application exiting and a FATAL log file being emitted in glog\Principia
<awang>
Gravity slingshotting a planet
<egg>
it is a logic error and treated accordingly :-p
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
that does not sound healthy, egg!
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: Alright, all the known engine parts are tagged properly. The Raidernick parts are not fully completed yet as I need to finish the RD-107/108
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
egg: I wonder if we'll ever stop calling Luna 'the Moon'
<regex>
Can anyone provide a reasearch link regarding when to launch for the moon based on launch site latitude? In other words, finding those "two times per month"?
<Pap>
regex: I cannot link to it, but check the RSS Flyby Finder forum post. I believe that there is a spreadsheet that was posted there about exactly what you are looking for
<Starwaster>
when did the shuttle start its closed loop guidance?
<lamont>
booster sep i think
<Starwaster>
yeah figures...
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<regex>
I wonder if that spreadsheet will work with Principia...
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: AWESOME! :)
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<Pap>
I tell ya, Microsoft Excel is a wonderful, wonderful program
<NathanKell|WORK>
indeed :)
<Pap>
I just created a function to generate all of the Test flight Configs for the new RD-107/108 engines based on the previous data using other multiple formulas, this must be what you programmers feel like when you figure out the code to fix a problem :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
:D
<NathanKell|WORK>
Nice!!
<NathanKell|WORK>
So, question to the body: Will people be too annoyed at having 8 different PP tank parts?
<dxdy>
do we get less boiloff from the new types?^^
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
the more realism, the better
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, i think it definitely will annoy people
<Raidernick>
they already complain
<NathanKell|WORK>
Well unless they want to write code to support it, I don't see much other way.
<Raidernick>
but they will probablly complain no matter what
<Raidernick>
screw em
<Pap>
^^^ This guy is correct
<Raidernick>
just be prepared to field support requests for ignorance
<xShadowx>
wouldnt the new ones just be effectively moving the RF tank types to their own part so no selecting? or am i misunderstanding :P
<xShadowx>
cuz could keep the single + make all the individual :3
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
the first and only comment on youtube about my Real KSC-tutorial: "Any chance to give a download link for additional runways you have created? I am too lazy to place them on my own." .. yeah.. people :D
<Pap>
^^^ second comment, Send Nudes
<NathanKell|WORK>
xShadowx: No, there are rather more tank types than just that
<Bornholio>
woulnd't tech advances be better than new tank types
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: would it be worth it to use PARTUPGRADE functionality, like we were talking about for EC mass?
<Pap>
For example, TankStart mass = 0.1, PARTUPGRADE then makes TankStart mass = 0.08?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Bornholio: No, because unlock cost.
<xShadowx>
ohhhhhh
<Pap>
Ah, but PARTUPGRADES can have unlock costs
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Ah, hmm. Not sure if JPLRepo fixed that
<NathanKell|WORK>
As of 1.2 that was broken.
<Pap>
oh, damn
<NathanKell|WORK>
JPLRepo: is that fixed in 1.2.2, or just 1.3 ?
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, is this only going to affect rp0
<NathanKell|WORK>
It's my fault :D
<Raidernick>
or is it going to break ro stuff
<NathanKell|WORK>
Raidernick: RP-0.
<Raidernick>
thank you for not making my life harder
<Raidernick>
lol
<Pap>
lol
<NathanKell|WORK>
:)
<JPLRepo>
It was fixed in 1.3
<Pap>
Raidernick: why did you choose to go with the small pieces approach for your rockets, etc?
<Raidernick>
small pieces?
<Pap>
lego style
<NathanKell|WORK>
JPLRepo: Ah dang :\
<NathanKell|WORK>
JPLRepo: thanks tho
<JPLRepo>
NPs
<Raidernick>
Pap, anything that needs to be a separate part is a separate part otherwise it's not
<Pap>
alright NathanKell|WORK looks like we need to pressure ferram4 now ;)
<Raidernick>
not sure what you mean
<ferram4>
For?
<NathanKell|WORK>
muh updates
<ferram4>
1.3. Alright.
<Pap>
:)
<NathanKell|WORK>
I admit to being in the glassest of houses here :D
<Bornholio>
your just a stones throw away
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: would the amount of work to get to 1.3 be less than re-doing all of the tank types? (and in turn easier for the player)?
<xShadowx>
anywho ya i dont mind multiple tanks PP tanks :) only multiple fixed-sized cylinder tanks piss me off
<regex>
Why exactly is that needed?
<NathanKell|WORK>
It's less work to redo them than to use partupgrades :P
<Pap>
:)
<JPLRepo>
I wouldn't expect the work to update to 1.3 is that great. you don't have to localize stuff. it will work without it.
<NathanKell|WORK>
indeed
<regex>
Would there be a way to create a new tank from the old one? Or swap parts?
<NathanKell|WORK>
yes
<regex>
Because multiple parts makes upgrading an LV an absolute pain.
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: would things like the FASA pre-made tanks need to be changed?
<Raidernick>
Pap, i've been thinking of redoing the fasa tanks
<Raidernick>
they look liek crap
<Raidernick>
with all the stacking for RO
<Raidernick>
it looks like a bunch of stacked tanks part welded
<NathanKell|WORK>
That would be great Raidernick!
<Raidernick>
and it's not good
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: I'll deprecate the old types
<NathanKell|WORK>
so they won't need changing
<Pap>
Raidernick: is it worth it to re-do them, or is it better to move away from FASA to BDB?
<NathanKell|WORK>
they have set costs and masses, so they don't need the changes
<Pap>
got it
<Raidernick>
Pap, bdb doesn't look real at all
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: BDB is ~~stockalike~~~
<Raidernick>
so no not really?
<Pap>
That is true
<Pap>
Good points
<NathanKell|WORK>
Also, butts.
<Pap>
Too many butts
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, is that f1 engine mod open source
<Raidernick>
the fasa one is a bit low poly
<Raidernick>
we can probably combine them
<NathanKell|WORK>
No it's not, it's ARR :(
<Raidernick>
damn
<xShadowx>
could set old tanks to no longer show in catalog, so old LVs still work, no need to swap to new parts, just cant spawn more of the old? less grouchy people complaining their LVs borked :P
* xShadowx
is a perfectionist and rebuilds everything anyways
<regex>
Old "inventory" is needed for realism.
<NathanKell|WORK>
A major reason I am doing this is to support a 'light' manufacturing model
<Pap>
xShadowx: so do I, except Sounding Rockets, those get moved from save to save now. I have built waaaaay too many sounding rockets
<NathanKell|WORK>
So that not just tank types, but tank dimensions of that given type, will have entry costs
<regex>
But if I want to take my old Thor craft file and upgrade it I should have to rebuild it from scratch
<NathanKell|WORK>
If you haven't paid the entry cost, the tank is 'hand built' because there's no manufacturing line.
<regex>
^shouldn't
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: Yeah. I tried to be super-minimalist with tank *part* types for that reason.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Only when we need an entry cost for the materials change.
<regex>
So long as there's a way to move to new LVs without starting from scratch I'm for it.
<regex>
That's one of the reasons I'm actually doing an American playthrough rather than just building whatever, I want to ~:experience:~ Delta.
<ferram4>
So, is there anyone here who has been playing with FAR dev in 1.3?
<NathanKell|WORK>
I can get it down to 3 tanks, with some RF improvements.
<NathanKell|WORK>
one tank, one balloon tank, one SM tank
<NathanKell|WORK>
ferram4: taniwha might
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<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: Engine PARTUPGRADES should ideally be removed from the RO side of things and put into the RP-0 side of things since it is only for the Tech Tree, Correct?
<Pap>
Raidernick: would you like me to ask Shadowmage for the SSTU F-1?
<Raidernick>
Pap, nah i don't want to combine active packs
<Raidernick>
only if it was abandoned
<Pap>
ok
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
has anyone here made a Venus glider/plane yet?
* Pap
grumbles something about planes, even at Venus
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: do you remember any electric-propeller in your tech-tree?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:PP
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: In Refined Turbofans, there is an Electric Propeller from Firespitter
<Pap>
It will be listed as WIP-RO
* xShadowx
cheers for quadcopters
<dxdy>
the new techtree is great btw
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so there's a reason to install more than the Firespitter plugin after all!
<Bornholio>
what will i loose if i completely part with firespitter including core?
<xShadowx>
install all the mods~
<Pap>
Bornholio: This is an important question you ask...
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<Bornholio>
my install is starting to crawl again, tempted to shed some things that aren't really adding to my gameplay and planes are at zero use right now
<Pap>
Can someone please tell me the origMass of the RD-107-117 Engine_Config?
<Bornholio>
origMass = 1.19
<Pap>
Thank you!
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Correct. In fact you can generate them in your sheet.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Since you already know the config name, the engine name, and the tech level, and you're only ever using one model, you can just generate all the PARTUPGRADEs from your sheet.
<Pap>
That is what I am going to work on, I just wanted to confirm before I did
<NathanKell|WORK>
You can also do the *@ deleteme lines in each cfg when you cost it.
<NathanKell|WORK>
then it's all done in the sheet.
<Pap>
Excellent
<NathanKell|WORK>
i.e. @CONFIG[whatever] {
<NathanKell|WORK>
%techRequired = foo
<Pap>
Cost Mods will be done from the sheet as well, cleaning it all up! Gonna be great!
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<NathanKell|WORK>
blowfish: what changes actually had to be made for 1.3, in RF?
<blowfish>
replacing BaseEventData with BaseEventDetails and adding an additional parameter to PopupDialog.SpawnPopupDialog
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ah, kk
<blowfish>
I think the PopupDialog.SpawnPopupDialog change might be backwards compatible but the BaseEventData/Details one is not
<NathanKell|WORK>
we use BaseEvent a fair amount yeah?
<NathanKell|WORK>
it's not just like one place
<blowfish>
I think there were about 6 occurrences
<NathanKell|WORK>
yeah
<blowfish>
Since the 1.3 changes where merged to master a while ago there is a 1.2.2 final branch that I was cherry picking changes to
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yes that's what I'm on locally
<blowfish>
the last couple of 1.2.2 release tags point to commits on that branch rather than master
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yeah. I'm really really sorry, but I don't really see how to avoid doing another 1.2 release, unless we want two save-breaking updates of RP-0 more or less back to back. :\
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<NathanKell|WORK>
I didn't realize how easily I could do the ECM stuff--I thought it'd be a few months off. But because it's so easily done, I really don't want to have to do two save-breakers.
<NathanKell|WORK>
I basically want to stick as much save-breakery in as I can, so we don't have to break them again in a month or two
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<blowfish>
naming might be a question ... it would have to sit between 12.2.2 and 12.2.3
<blowfish>
really though the reason I didn't want to do another release is to avoid confusion
<NathanKell|WORK>
No, it'd be 13.0 and 13.1 I think
<NathanKell|WORK>
It's a major change
<blowfish>
ah
<NathanKell|WORK>
ECMs and a new tank setup
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<NathanKell|WORK>
(and supporting purchasing tank upgrades)
<blowfish>
yeah the real problem is going to be making sure that no one installs the wrong version
<NathanKell|WORK>
hence .version
<blowfish>
(or at least minimizing, because they will)
<NathanKell|WORK>
but for the manual-install folks yes it's a danger
<NathanKell|WORK>
Long as we version-lock with checkers it should at least prompt on KSP start
<NathanKell|WORK>
I've been thinking about how we could try to include both dlls. We could make the 1.3 one not load on 1.2, but I can't think how to prevent the 1.2 one from loading on 1.3.
<blowfish>
yeah I don't see a way to do that
<NathanKell|WORK>
yeah, KSPAssemblyVersion is "newer good"
<Analog>
Hey, everyone first time here. I have some issues with my RO install that I need some help with. Not sure if this is the proper place for that.
<NathanKell|WORK>
yo!
<Analog>
Sorry didnt intend to interrupt your conversation.
<NathanKell|WORK>
no probs. What's up?
<Analog>
I have a fresh ckan install with all of the dependencies and most of the suggested mods and I've noticed when using the Saturn v in the fast pack that the co2 scrubbers don't appear to actually function. They consume The lithium hydroxide but not the co2
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ah. Hmm.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Is the rate of CO2 accumulation unchanged, you mean?
<NathanKell|WORK>
or is it just not eating up existing CO2?
<Analog>
By the time I encounter the moon the co2 is full yet doesn't kill the kerbals either
<NathanKell|WORK>
TACLS doesn't kill based on full waste resources
<NathanKell|WORK>
it just dumps the excess
<NathanKell|WORK>
so that's as expected
<NathanKell|WORK>
As to why it's not converting right...
<Analog>
The accumulation rate doesn't change nor does it seem to reduce it if kerbals are on eva
<NathanKell|WORK>
That I don't know. Pap might know, or stratochief if he's around
<NathanKell|WORK>
if all else fails maybe JPLRepo could look at the configcache copy of the converter and see if it's correct (he does TACLS)
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
is it cheating if I use TAC Fuel Balancer to dump waste (water)? (not CO2) is that something historical craft were capable of?
<Analog>
I also noticed that if initiated on launch it doesn't consume the hydroxide until a certain altitude is reached. Intended?
<NathanKell|WORK>
TACLS doesn't model closed life support systems until a certain minimum air pressure
<NathanKell|WORK>
so yes
<Analog>
Okay one less concern lol
<JPLRepo>
hey ho
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<JPLRepo>
sup
<Analog>
Ahoy
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Not that it was 100% accurate, but the funny quote from Apollo 13 is "There goes Constellation U-rine" when he has a waste dump
<JPLRepo>
TACLS yeah. closed system. if in space.
<JPLRepo>
but yeah it dumps excess waste.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: a-ha!
<JPLRepo>
it opens the windows if atmosphere contains O2 and pressure > 0.3 for O2. But that requires EC.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
that's a consideration for my impending Manned Lunar Orbiter mission
<JPLRepo>
Once the pressure > 0.5 it does not require EC
<JPLRepo>
also for EC same deal if pressure >0.5
<Analog>
It's not gamebreaking that it doesn't seem to actually affect the co2 levels. I'm still able to complete missions but you know, realism etc. lol
<JPLRepo>
(it doesn't use EC)
<JPLRepo>
so there's a problem with a converter?
<JPLRepo>
if you could chuck a report in github if there's a converter issue. would be great.
<Analog>
Yes at least from my experience. The co2 scrubber in the Apollo cm in the fast pack consumes resources without affecting co2 rates/levels
<Analog>
Sure will do. At work ATM so will be a couple hours yet.
<JPLRepo>
ok. yeah busy meself. so if you can put into github. I can take a look over the weekend.
<Analog>
I have another issue with water behavior but seeing as that's more related to rsve I don't think this is the appropriate place for it.
<NathanKell|WORK>
We don't know from this if it's TAC or just us configuring it wrong JPLRepo
<NathanKell|WORK>
that's why I wondered if you could have a peek at the configcache
<Pap>
I think there are some configuration issues with the TAC converters. It is something with how the specialistBonuses are configured (i think)
<Analog>
Would those appear in a sandbox save? That was where I noticed the Saturn v issue
<JPLRepo>
NathanKell|WORK: ah I see. so the CO2 scrubber in RO cfg?
<Analog>
Yes
<Pap>
Analog: what mod, FASA?
<JPLRepo>
I'll give it a look a bit later.
<Analog>
Yes
<JPLRepo>
In the middle of some other stuff.
<Analog>
Before submitting my report I will test othe pod and standalone converters to give a better idea of causality
<Pap>
Analog: was your waste full?
<Analog>
Also where would you prefer the issue raised. RO, tac, or fasa?
<Analog>
Not initially but it was approaching end of tli
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<NathanKell|WORK>
Issue should be in RO to start, make one in TAC if the config is fine but the code is busted
<Analog>
Okay well I'm winding down my day here so I will post that issue on th RO git repo soon. Thanks everyone for their assistance here, and also thank you to everyone who contributes to the suite. I won't play without it!
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<taniwha>
ferram4: I have been
<ferram4>
Is it borked in any way?
<taniwha>
I think I have seen the odd nre, but nothing that broke things while playing
<taniwha>
firing up KSP to see if anything shows up
<taniwha>
hmm nothing showed up this time
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<taniwha>
getting FAR to work involved only fixing the api changes (and disabling tweakscale support)
<ferram4>
Oh, absolutely random question: I know there was a picture of the RD-107 cycle in detail posted not too long back; anyone have a link for it?
<ferram4>
Or otherwise able to answer if the H2O2 turbine also powered an H2O2 pump or not?
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<blowfish>
ferram4: I recall there being an H2O2 pump, yes
<ferram4>
Okay. Well, then there goes the plan for implementing H2O2 powered gas gen cycles first on the basis of them being simpler.