<wb99999999>
Suddenly I really wanted a vernier engine that matched the F/O ratio of the staged combustion kerolox engines...
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<Slavi>
o7 everyone
<Slavi>
hotel wifi is _really_ bad
<Slavi>
Can anyone give me a bit of explanation on how burning past your rated burn time influences the chances of an early shutdown?
<Slavi>
Clearly it increases it, but I note that the "100% burn through penalty" is usually at least a minute after the rated burn time. But how does going over by just a few seconds change things?
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<ProjectThoth>
Slavi: Are you talking about real world stuff or in RO?
<ProjectThoth>
Slavi: Best way I can think to explain it IRL is that it's a bit like brake pads on your car. Even though we do have alloys that are capable of handling high temperatures and speeds (for the turbos and the like), those parts can and will wear down during a burn to the point where they become weak enough to be damaged or destroyed by nominal operating conditions.
<wb99999999>
Think about a Russain staged combustion engine
<wb99999999>
they cool the nozzle with kerosene fuel
<wb99999999>
the plumbing is just enough so the polymer-rich kerosene don't clog during the burn time
<wb99999999>
it is measured in seconds
<wb99999999>
they say
<Slavi>
Thanks guys, but I wasn't so much asking about how it works in real life, but how it works in the game mechanics.
<Slavi>
Is there some kind of curve that determines failure chances? I suppose this is mostly a question directed at Agathorn
<Slavi>
Lastly, at least in my RP-0 playthrough I am about to unlock the RD-107&-108. I think I saw someone post that the issue was that the engine configs module wasn't working - is there a way I can fix that sooner rather than later?
<Slavi>
Or I guess, would downloading the most recent dev branch for RO work to solve that problem?
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<Slavi>
o7 SpecimenSpiff
<Slavi>
I was just asking if there's a fix yet for the RD-108's engine configs
<Slavi>
but also, hi
<SpecimenSpiff>
o/
<Qboid>
SpecimenSpiff: awang left a message for you in #RO [29.08.2017 07:35:51]: "Don't have an ideal dev environment set up, but I'll definitely take a look later today. Thanks for the tips! Definitely a good start"
<SpecimenSpiff>
I havent been in the channel much this weekend, so if there was a fix I didnt hear anything
<Slavi>
borntosleep: actually I think there's a strong argument to use VASIMR over an NTR from the perspective that you can use much more storable propellants than you would with an NTR.
<Slavi>
Hydrogen is annoying, yo.
<borntosleep>
not really at this point, brayton compressors and reasonable insulation, plus most fuel is used outbound
<wb99999999>
in theory an NTR is very flexible
<borntosleep>
gravity losses for the Vasmir and low thrust mean that its less efficient than it first appears by raw ISP value, and g'night all
<borntosleep>
plus i think Methane is the comming back fuel :)
<wb99999999>
if in need you can also get it to run on water or CO2
<wb99999999>
yes, Methane is great
<borntosleep>
500-600isp :)
<ProjectThoth>
NTRs poop out whatever you put in.
<ProjectThoth>
It's great!@
<ProjectThoth>
*great!
<wb99999999>
actually if you Kerbal it up, methane is often the best fuel for NTRs
<wb99999999>
density and everything
<wb99999999>
people made SSTOs to Earth orbit in stock style RSS playthroughs
<wb99999999>
with Methane fueled NTRs
<ProjectThoth>
I mean, SSTO to LEO isn't that hard.
<ProjectThoth>
It's just reuse that's the problem. :P
<wb99999999>
meaningful payload is another
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<wb99999999>
so...is it expected that the modular SRBs from SSTU doesn't work?
<soundnfury>
SpecimenSpiff: nobody here but us chickens
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<lamont>
wut? no more firing rockets at cuba or canada?
<wb99999999>
puff
<ProjectThoth>
Who needs Canada?
<wb99999999>
you know when you guys are going 90 deg from Vandenberg
<wb99999999>
the spent stage almost drops at exactly where I live now
<wb99999999>
so think about it
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<soundnfury>
wb99999999: so we're giving you free rocket parts, why complain?
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<ProjectThoth>
"Ow, another one!"
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<awang>
Why are there two different Baby Sargents? One from FASA, one fromm RN US Rockets
<awang>
The latter is ~10x cheaper, too
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<ProjectThoth>
You know how you go to the grocery store and you can find cereal like Honey Nut Cheerios and also Nutty Loops, even though they're the same thing?
<soundnfury>
10 NUTS; 20 GO TO 10
<soundnfury>
(nutty loops)
<ProjectThoth>
Hah!
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<ProjectThoth>
Well, yeah, the cheaper one is the generic version.
<ProjectThoth>
"Child Soldier"
<ProjectThoth>
...wait, that doesn't sound right.
<soundnfury>
"Child Solder". for infantile electronics
<ProjectThoth>
Advanced Snap Circuits.
<wb99999999>
I am losing track of the humor
<wb99999999>
probably for not being an native English speaker, or for not being a programmer
<ProjectThoth>
wb99999999: The generic rocket thing is true, everything else is a lie.
<wb99999999>
one of the two
<ProjectThoth>
20 GOTO 10 was a command from one of the really old programming languages that would endlessly print out (on screen) the same thing over and over again.
<wb99999999>
well that's called a loop...okay I get it
<ProjectThoth>
"Generic rocket parts" would be a really stupid mod.
<ProjectThoth>
Like, make 'em 10x as cheap but also 10x more likely to fail.
<soundnfury>
ProjectThoth: that's not "Generic", that's "Aldi Own-brand Rockets"
<ProjectThoth>
soundnfury: Hah!
<soundnfury>
factory seconds discount outlet
<soundnfury>
"I Can't Believe It's Not Hypergolic!"
<ProjectThoth>
LV-T45 "Swivel"? More like "Twisty Rocket Engine"
<soundnfury>
In store today, 3 for 2 on Folded Cloth Deceleration Devices
<wb99999999>
you know going with the logic
<ProjectThoth>
"Airtight Box for Kerbal Safekeeping, small" and "Airtight Box for Kerbal Safekeeping, large."
<ProjectThoth>
See also: "
<ProjectThoth>
A
<wb99999999>
something you can't believe that it is not hypergolic should be something even worth to one's health than hypergolic fuels
<wb99999999>
but I can't think of any
<ProjectThoth>
"Airtight Can for Kerbal Safekeeping, small" and "Airtight Can for Kerbal Safekeeping, medium."
<soundnfury>
wb99999999: "well it stinks and it poisons everyone, you'd _think_ it would catch fire but we just can't get it to burn"
<ProjectThoth>
Comes in the world's largest blister pack.
<wb99999999>
well that's very good
<soundnfury>
ProjectThoth: no, it's in 1.3, that's the badly-translated-from-Chinese instructions
<wb99999999>
like a radiotherapy without the cancer killing part
<soundnfury>
"can of keeping kerbal in safe with air"
<ProjectThoth>
soundnfury: "We exuberant delight over providing this NEW SAFE product..."
<soundnfury>
ITYM "exubelant deright"
<ProjectThoth>
"DO NOT ingest, DO NOT insert into pool"
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<soundnfury>
do not attempt to stop rocket with hands or genitals
<ProjectThoth>
"AVOID EYE CONTRACT. Not reprehensible for gravy injury."
<soundnfury>
"for indoor or outdoor use only"
<soundnfury>
"wash dark colours separably"
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<ProjectThoth>
"Do not eat silica gel packet"
<soundnfury>
"if symptoms persist more than two weeks after launch, insult a medical professional"
<wb99999999>
I knew this would come up
<ProjectThoth>
wb99999999: What, did you eat the silica gel packet too?
<ProjectThoth>
Tasted like mothballs.
<wb99999999>
I've never had the privilege to enjoy that
<ProjectThoth>
Oh.
<wb99999999>
*of enjoying that
<wb99999999>
I am sick of my own grammar
<ProjectThoth>
I-I mean, who would eat the silica gel packet, even out of curiosity! Totally not me!
<wb99999999>
Last time I check someone has "Goodenough" for last name
<wb99999999>
Now I am reeducated on how far last names can go
<soundnfury>
still better than Featherstonehaugh or Cholmondely
<soundnfury>
(pronounced "fanshaw" and "chumley" respectively. Because England)
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<awang>
How bad of an idea is it to try for a lunar impact by going straight up?
<wb99999999>
from the pad?
<soundnfury>
awang: uhh, if you're thinking that'll make the guidance easier, think again
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<wb99999999>
I mean if you can nail the Coriolis effect and the window, it is in theory possible
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<wb99999999>
anyway what is the motivation of doing such thing?
<ProjectThoth>
This was addressed in From the Earth to the Moon.
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<ProjectThoth>
The guidance issue is actually well-addressed in the book. The Moon swings back and forth so that it returns to the same zenith point every 18 years or something like that.
<ProjectThoth>
Damn, now I wanna try and build the Columbiad in KSP.
<awang>
wb99999999: Yes
<awang>
soundnfury: :(
<awang>
Didn't want to bother with figuring out launch windows
<wb99999999>
where are you launching from?
<awang>
Although now that I think about it it isn't as good as an idea as I originally thought
<awang>
wb99999999: The idea was to be lazy and not have to worry about getting the window perfectly right
<awang>
wb99999999: Cape Canaveral
<wb99999999>
cape is easy, because has a lower latitude than the moon's inclination
<wb99999999>
so you can totally launch into the plane and pick any point on the orbit
<awang>
It's the "launch into the plane" part I didn't want to have to think about
<ProjectThoth>
awang: Straight out over the ocean.
<wb99999999>
you can also try to line up the nodes
<wb99999999>
that way you don't have to care about that one precise window for a co-plane insertion
<ProjectThoth>
^
<wb99999999>
this is mandatory for Baikonour or JiuQuan since they have a higher latitude than the moon's inclination
<awang>
wb99999999: Line up the nodes?
<wb99999999>
you don't have to be at the same plane to do a TLI
<wb99999999>
if your AN/DN is of the right longitude, you can just burn at one node and arrive at moon's SOI in the other node
<wb99999999>
I need someone who's better at orbital mechanics than I do to explain this adequately
<awang>
Uh huh
<awang>
I think I see it
<ProjectThoth>
Isn't the delta-v for a plane change factored into a TLI burn from that setup?
<wb99999999>
it is actually not
<wb99999999>
because moon is a huge chunk of rock and it pulls you in whatever angle you arrives at it regardless
<wb99999999>
oh god my grammar is so bad I want to commit suicide
<ProjectThoth>
I didn't notice anything wrong there.
<ProjectThoth>
Oh, I guess it's not considered if your goal is just reaching the Moon, period.
<wb99999999>
you don't "arrives" at moon
<wb99999999>
you arrive at moon
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<wb99999999>
I don't know if I got my point across tho
<ProjectThoth>
I got it, loud and clear.
<wb99999999>
one can launch into a polar orbit and still get to moon
<wb99999999>
and it's not a blind shot either, you very much have control over the arriving angle
<wb99999999>
*still get to moon without changing plane
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<Rokker>
so who wants to recreate the Indian failure in RO?
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<waerloga>
indian failure?
<waerloga>
so behind on lauches
<waerloga>
gah, that was today wasn't it?
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<Bornholio>
nice rokker they fubar'd the fairings. was there a video of launch?
<Rokker>
Bornholio: yeah
<Rokker>
waerloga: yep the fairings left on and you just watched it slowly drift farther and farther off the telemetry course
<Bornholio>
they need to hhire Lamont with his PEG :)
<lamont>
hahahahahaha
<Rokker>
waerloga: next up is a falcon hotfire
<Bornholio>
add to list of things i want to NOT be affected by TF....
<Rokker>
anyways
<lamont>
yeah the biggest problem with PEG is supporting rearranging staging in flight, and the example i always use is moving the fairing stage around
<Rokker>
the fairings didnt release
<Rokker>
the satellite successfully released tho
<Rokker>
inside the fairings
<lamont>
they could have fixed that problem in KSP
<Bornholio>
they need revert to launch option left on :)
<Rokker>
to be fair
<Rokker>
its been like 7 years since their last failure i think
<Bornholio>
the have a great program, very prolific
<Rokker>
Bornholio: especially for india
<Bornholio>
imagine in 1947 you said in london that India would have a larger space program that the UK :P
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<awang>
ProjectThoth: Lunar impact is the goal
<ProjectThoth>
awang: Ahh.
<awang>
Part of the problem is that I have enough total dv to reach the moon, but it's not split right to be able to do a parking orbit then insertion burn
<ProjectThoth>
How long's your on-orbit lifetime?
<awang>
So I was hoping to skip the parking orbit part
<awang>
soundnfury: That certainly makes lunar launches sound easy. I'll try that
<awang>
Konrad?
<ProjectThoth>
I was going to suggest launching into an elliptical orbit in line for departure, then waiting a month.
<awang>
ProjectThoth: What do you mean by on-orbit lifetime?
<ProjectThoth>
awang: How long could your probe idle in orbit?
<awang>
Oh
<awang>
Uh
<awang>
Not long at all
<awang>
Another problem is that I don't have good solar panels yet
<awang>
So avionics won't last long
<awang>
Although I do have Principia installed, so perhaps I can (ab)use that?
<awang>
And I think I'm a bit behind on R&D
<awang>
I'm early 1958, but haven't started researching the corresponding orbital rocketry node yet
<awang>
I swear the limiting factor in how fast I can progress is how fast R&D unlocks
<awang>
Pretty sure I've spent way too much money buying upgrade points to get the unlocks faster
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<Maxsimal>
o/
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<ProjectThoth>
awang: Hmm.
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<SpecimenSpiff>
o/
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<wb99999999>
tap
<ProjectThoth>
pat
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<wb99999999>
what is so special about the Super Draco?
<wb99999999>
It's just another hypergolic p-fed engine isn't it?
<ProjectThoth>
It's 3D printed.
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<ProjectThoth>
Why do some spaceplane concepts have external payload bays?
<ProjectThoth>
I'm assuming it's because of internal tankage.
<Bornholio>
some are because ists a disposable fairing instead of heavy returnable fueselage, makes it easier to adapt for strange cargos. not sure about that shuttle II concept, looks like something more akin to traveller roleplaying game
<ProjectThoth>
Hmm.
<ProjectThoth>
Anyone have any indications of what average payload density is for most LVs?