<Starwaster>
it pointed straight down at the ocean and kept burning until it took the plunge?
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<Dasm>
Starwaster: It went terminal before it made the correct orbit
<Starwaster>
so what was the end result? did you GET an orbit?
<Dasm>
I disabled autopilot and circularized myself, but when I disabled autopilot- It just out the J2 engine so I didn't have enough ignitions to make my TLI burn
<Dasm>
cut out*
<Starwaster>
I turned off limited ignitions after MJ burned through all of them (24 ignitions in a landing engine) machine gun stylew
<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* I am looking for your opinion on including more Science experiments to RP-0, I have a list of them that we can add and want to know what you think / which we should include
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<NCommander>
soundnfury, it's with "with", except for the one library that doesn't support it and what I'm suspecting is leaking.
<Dasm>
Starwaster: Yeah, the S-II stage puts the thing nearly in orbit, I dunno what happened
<soundnfury>
NCommander: How sad. /me wishes you luck
<CobaltWolf>
soundnfury: alright sounds good. I don't know anything about that stuff so I wasn't sure how big of an 'ask' that was
<Starwaster>
dasm how was its actual end mass? Did you have a lunar module or equivalent mass?
<taniwha>
o/
<Dasm>
Starwaster: I'm not completely sure
<Bornholio>
Hi Mumbles :P
<Dasm>
Did the Apollo mission boost to a high AP before TLI?
<ProjectThoth>
Dasm: It was direct, iirc.
<ProjectThoth>
Actually... yeah, it had to be direct, the J-2 on the S-IVB only had three ignitions. One for launch, one for TLI, and one reserve.
<ProjectThoth>
Woohoo, my watch pins are on their way!
* NCommander
is slightly torn between playing OpenTTD for awhile or his KSP file
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<soundnfury>
NCommander: huzz and ah.
<soundnfury>
also, yeah that does sound like a hard decision
<Pap>
Both are really good choices NCommander
<soundnfury>
maybe you should use !choose
<Pap>
I created a map of North America for OpenTTD in a past life
<soundnfury>
!choose steam|diesel|electric
<Qboid>
soundnfury: Your options are: steam, diesel, electric. My choice: steam
<soundnfury>
good bot!
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<Ramh5>
Is there a way to use KRASH to simulate a reentry? I set up the simulation to start orbiting Venus but as soon as I enter the atmosphere it stops the simulation
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<NCommander>
Ramh5, you have to set it in the advanced options that the simulation continues on situation change
<Dasm>
How the hell am I supposed to ullage thelunar ascent engine
<ProjectThoth>
Dasm: It's not pressure-fed?
<ProjectThoth>
Dasm: And RCS, for the record.
<ProjectThoth>
Hmm, pressure-fed engines do need ullage. Dur, my bad.
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<NCommander>
RO wins
* NCommander
isn't going to stream though
<Dasm>
ProjectThoth: From the ground?
<Bornholio>
Dasm LDM should not need ullage just pressure.
<Pap>
The Descent Engine you can ullage, you said Ascent above
<Dasm>
The ascent at the same problem.. and I'm using whatever tanks came with the LM
<Bornholio>
FASA or Vens?
<Dasm>
FASA
<Dasm>
OH! I bet its because I'm falling
<Bornholio>
as friggin usual docking in the dark
<acharles>
I just tried krpc and it works
* taniwha
glares at blowfish
<blowfish>
yo?
<taniwha>
C# 7 and fueledByLaunchClamp :P
<taniwha>
both resolved but meh
<blowfish>
can't compile c# 7?
<taniwha>
can now
<taniwha>
had to update mono
<taniwha>
so, really, it's a very short-lived glare :)
<taniwha>
the worst bit was figuring out why csc couldn't find Assembly-CSharp
<taniwha>
(needed to add .dll)
<blowfish>
ah yeah
<Starwaster>
bornholio: docking in the dark... the struggle is real :/
<taniwha>
really, you responded too quickly. I would have softened my comment
<taniwha>
blowfish: also, moved that field into the base class
<Starwaster>
taniwha mono or xamarin?
<taniwha>
mono
<Bornholio>
all the fasa & vens ports suck too. too problematic, rather have roation locked pico's
<blowfish>
glad mono updated so quickly really
<blowfish>
and glad they're finally using roslyn now
<taniwha>
yeah, me too
<taniwha>
though those two lines would have been easy enough to work around, I felt it better to go with the flow if possible
<taniwha>
blowfish: those changes, along with an NRE fix for filter by module pushed
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NathanKell|AWAY is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: Pap left a message for you in #RO [13.07.2017 00:11:16]: "I am looking for your opinion on including more Science experiments to RP-0, I have a list of them that we can add and want to know what you think / which we should include"
<NathanKell>
Pap: YES PLS
<NathanKell>
Pap: There's an RP-0 issue on it mebbe?
<NathanKell>
Pap: As of Advanced Capsules the science instrument picking gets thin. I'd love to have a reason to do more Earth Science
<NathanKell>
(and also it would prevent us needing to down-cost nodes)
<ferram4>
WOuldn't an obvious one be an atomic clock?
<Dasm>
Shoot.. I just realized I have to rendevous the Ascent module with the CM
<NathanKell>
ferram4: Ah, hmm. For verifying relativity?
<ferram4>
Yes.
<ferram4>
And likely for extra gravity readings at any point you place it at. Because, ya know, extra data always good.
<ferram4>
Also, good for GPS sat reqs. :D
<NathanKell>
yeah
<Pap>
OK, here are our options (I know some are duplicates of what we have, these are dedicated models if we wanted to use them) Also, disregard the values, that is just how they are currently setup...
<NathanKell>
oh huh, RP-0 is a thread of the month!
<ferram4>
>_<
<ferram4>
Incoming
<Pap>
Surprised they would do that since it is not 1.3...
<taniwha>
hi, NathanKell
<taniwha>
have you had time to see that vid?
<NathanKell>
taniwha: Alas no! :( We watched anime for supper, and then I was fighting with the modem after. And I just got home from work and a doctor's appt.
<NathanKell>
I hope to do so tonight! :)
<taniwha>
:)
<taniwha>
I hope all is well
<NathanKell>
yep, yep, nothing serious at all
<taniwha>
ah, cool :)
<taniwha>
but get well soon
<NathanKell>
Not sick
<NathanKell>
checkupy thing
<ProjectThoth>
NathanKell: Aw, heard you were sick. Get well soon!
<Pap>
NathanKell: Yes, I have looked at that (BTW, that Dropbox link is dead)
<Pap>
UV Scanner is a nice one that would be useful
<NathanKell>
oh, btw, Pap, what was PhineasFreak apologizing about? I'm confused
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<NathanKell>
think maybe I missed an email
<Pap>
^^ exactly
<Pap>
I had told him I was working on RTG's and like an hour later, he pushed the RTG's
<NathanKell>
aha
<Pap>
He didn't want me to think that he started working on them when I said I was going to
<Pap>
Saved me a bunch of work!
<NathanKell>
\o/
<NathanKell>
Good egg, that Phineas
<NathanKell>
ok, so, assuming the moon is in the right phase and the wind don't rise, I'm gonna try to stream again
<NathanKell>
my upload bandwidth seems back to normal
<NathanKell>
anybody about to push?
<Pap>
nope, all pushed
<stratochief>
NathanKell is sick, and so was his internet?
<Pap>
o/ stratochief
<NathanKell>
stratochief: HEYO
<stratochief>
o/
<NathanKell>
stratochief: Ah, you did some stuff with Chaka Monkey, yes?
<NathanKell>
or was that SirKeplan?
<stratochief>
NathanKell: IIRC, phineas freak did most of it? I did like the ares 5, and that was about it
<stratochief>
I did test and merge plenty of the stuff that PF did, though
<stratochief>
IMO, Ares V > SLS, still. does cheap hydrolox engines, if only they had invested in making them clusterable instead of tossing the whole idea
<ProjectThoth>
Would have been a pain, though. Ablative engine bells.
<ProjectThoth>
I like DIRECT's Jupiter series.
<NathanKell>
kk, cuz I just got a PM from Yanfret saying he's abandoning stock and making Chaka Monkey designed-for-RSS
<NathanKell>
and asking about how to go about it
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|Twitch
<stratochief>
NathanKell: ahh, interesting. well, he could probably load up the old CMES with RO and look at his config cache, that would probably be the easiest way to steal native RO/RF configs, eh?
<taniwha>
ugh, I hope I get my machine up soon
<Pap>
SWEET!!
<taniwha>
updated debian and X/nvidia broke again :/
<ProjectThoth>
There was some concept I saw a long time ago that basically just capped the Shuttle ET (tankage was the same shape) to turn it into an in-line LV.
<stratochief>
I'm not sure if I've ever caught an NK twitch stream live before, since his triumphant return
<taniwha>
just a matter of getting it to NOT start X on boot
<NathanKell|Twitch>
stratochief: you're the mostest welcome to :)
<NathanKell|Twitch>
<3
<stratochief>
NK: welcome to who? welcome to what?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
0 dropped frames so far so...
<NathanKell|Twitch>
welcome to join the twitchery :)
<stratochief>
ahh, triple T. I get to see the legendary new tree in action
<Pap>
legendary, or infamous?
<taniwha>
I should be there soon
<stratochief>
NathanKell|Twitch: adapting the CMES RO configs to be native to the parts, rather than doing all that @ and ! would be a big pain, nearly as bad as just creating them from scratch IMO (unless one can think more dimensions of code chess than I can, which is entirely possible, I'm not a terribly seasoned programmer)
<taniwha>
Pap: notorious :)
<stratochief>
notorious T.R.E.(E.)
<Pap>
stratochief: you should just be able to copy the MM Config Cache of the part and paste it into your part config and make some small changes here and there
<stratochief>
that is why I think just nabbing existing configcache would be the most straightforward
<Pap>
ah, yep, we are on the same page :)
<stratochief>
Pap or NK, feel free to suggest that to Yanfret. it will still be many days until I get anywhere near up to speed again, and that is only if life doesn't swallow me again, which it very well might.
<stratochief>
I just had a meeting tomorrow cancelled at the last minute, which means that I won't be a broken man on thursday and friday \o/
<Pap>
We need you around! You are the only reason I know anything about what I am doing :)
<ProjectThoth>
I'm just a fly on the wall.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
stratochief: o7
<NathanKell|Twitch>
And fingers crossed to see more of you soon! :)
<stratochief>
Pap: thanks! you were (and are) a surprisingly fast learner. you also had a lot of previous mod experience under your belt before you joined us
<stratochief>
NathanKell|Twitch: also thanks! I also hope to have more KSP time, eventually
<stratochief>
but for now I will KSP vicariously through twitch :)
<taniwha>
having problems getting it to boot now :(
<stratochief>
taniwha: that is why I don't linux, or at least I tip-toe around it gently
<lamont>
i don’t know about Ap < Pe, the code looks completely correct and i’m confused
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Ah, next time I quit I'll grab that, thanks lamont! :)
<NathanKell|Twitch>
lamont: Yeah, it's super weird
<NathanKell|Twitch>
I'll give a holler when next I see it
<taniwha>
stratochief: problems with nvidia. probably incompatible somehow
<lamont>
oh i wonder if its beause its an editablethingamagig class and i need to call value on it to compare it or else C# does something mildly asinine like compare it by memory location or something…
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<taniwha>
stratochief: was pebcak
<taniwha>
I'd messed up the procedure for updating nvidia's drivers
<Dasm>
Is it possible to get an orbit like LCROSS in KSP?
<Dasm>
I'm not really sure how to describe it, but basically it flings by the moon and gets ejected in a highly inclined trajectory, and then proceeds to loop around moon's orbit until it eventually impacts in 2 months
<ProjectThoth>
Principa, maybe.
<ProjectThoth>
Actually, yeah, it'd have to involve Principa.
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<Dasm>
It opens on the webap, but not the windows app
<Pap>
That doesn't make any sense
<Pap>
I am in it now on the app
<Pap>
lamont: any special version of MechJeb I need, or just the most recent 1.2.2 version with that DLL that you have in the release?
<lamont>
you can use the first zip file which is the whole thing
<Pap>
ah, great
<Dasm>
Oh.. maybe I have to claum my account Pap
<Dasm>
Wait
<Dasm>
No
<Dasm>
I don't get it, clicking the link opens discord, but doesn't join the channel
<Dasm>
I can get to it on the webap
<Pap>
But you joined on the webapp, so it should show on your windows app, right?
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<Pap>
What a damn shame!
<taniwha>
yeah
<NathanKell>
time for nomz anyway
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|NOMZ
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
but yeah it's annoying
<taniwha>
yup, my down is slower than my up
<taniwha>
NathanKell|NOMZ: and youtube vids ;)
<lamont>
NK: what do you think about inverting the UX for PEG and instead of giving it the number of stages to control, give it the number of upper stages to ignore?
<taniwha>
lamont: I think that might be a good idea
<lamont>
that would get hot staging and boosters and drop tanks and all that junk correct
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
Lamont that sounds actually worse sadly, sorry
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
Ah true
<taniwha>
what about doing the inversion internally?
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
But payloads always vary
<lamont>
right
<taniwha>
hmmm, can you check which part(s) will stage next?
<lamont>
that’s the downside of exposing that as UX because some 3-stage contraption as payload means you have to bump that number up and it doesn’t follow the launch vehicle
<lamont>
but yeah i kind of like the idea of doing it internally
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
lamont: But payload stages will vary pretty much every launch
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
meaning you'll have to reset the stage count every time
<lamont>
right that’s what i’m saying
<taniwha>
if you can, it might be worth considering a tag on the stageable part
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
From an internal standpoint, your method is far easier
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
Ah sorry
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
had typed that before but nomzed
<lamont>
lolz
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
but from a UX standpoint yes that's a very big downside IMO
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
anyway gtg for realz, back later o/
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
I would say, PRESETS, and then invert on preset load :)
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
best of both worlds
<taniwha>
and then not staging past that tagged part
<taniwha>
but yes, presets
<taniwha>
always good
<lamont>
so maybe “num stages” remains the UX but internally when that gets updated it computes how many stages to preserve
<lamont>
that may produce weird synchronization bugs tho
<Pap>
It is still being tested, but it is very playable
<Dasm>
time to start my new career
<Pap>
lol, always happens after someone lands on the Moon
<Dasm>
I haven't been playing with construction time or testflight.. I probably should
<Pap>
Ah, that is definitely why you were able to move quickly
<Pap>
How many games of RP-0 have you played?
<Dasm>
A few, not a whole lot
<Pap>
Yeah, it takes a few times before adding the difficult stuff like that should happen
<Dasm>
You think I could do it Pap?
<Pap>
Dasm: You have landed on the Moon, you could attempt a MArs landing in your current career, or yes, I would start over and add some more difficulty/realism mods
<Dasm>
Pap: What goes into the tech trees for Long term Science tech, science outposts
<Dasm>
I've done mars landings on another playthrough
<Pap>
In the current Tech Tree, I don't know. The current tree is not really filled out past Apollo, maybe DMagic parts
<Dasm>
I have dmagic installed
<Pap>
Then there is a good chance, nothing
<Dasm>
Pap: So you'd say the new tree is an improvement over the one I'm using now?
<Pap>
Yes, and I think most people would agree, it plays very differently though
<Dasm>
How so?
<Pap>
So there are a lot more nodes, so you have time to use all of the different Engine Configs since they open at different times now
<Pap>
If you play with KCT, the early game will be longer because there are more nodes to get as well
<Dasm>
So I won't be getting to the Moon in the first year?
<Pap>
Delete the RealismOverhaul and RP-0 folder out of your GameData
<Pap>
Copy the RealismOverhaul folder from inside the ZIP GameData/Realism Overhaul
<Pap>
And the same for RP-0
<Dasm>
I'll make a doccument of important milestones and give it to you when I reach the moon Pap .. I mean, if you'd me interested, it'd be a doccumentation of a playthrough basically
<Pap>
That would be great Dasm, others have done it and it is helpful for sure
<Pap>
Yes on the right side should be a Clone or Download button
<Dasm>
And just paste the stuff from gamedata, right
<Pap>
Only GameData, correct, make sure you delete your old folders first, or you will have issues
<Dasm>
Pap: If I run into any (not supported by RP0) parts, should I let you know what they are?
<Pap>
Not necessary Dasm, anything that you can unlocked was specifically placed by me (even if it is non-RP0) there are no stock node names so unless we put them in there, they cannot exist
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<Dasm>
When playing with testflight and KCT, would it make sense to make multiple test rockets for engines? So I can raise the research level on them? Before sending expensive missions that take a long time to construct
<Pap>
Exactly, you can also spend money to do R&D on an engine to increase it's data as well
<Dasm>
Sort of like doing static fire testing
<Pap>
yes, but TestFlight doesn't give you data if you are on the ground (I tried)
<Dasm>
That makes me sad
<Pap>
:)
<Dasm>
How do I make qboid tell someone something
<taniwha>
using !tell name message
<Pap>
!tell Dasm Hello
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Dasm>
!tell agathorn Static fire testing for TestFlight?
<Qboid>
Dasm: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
Dasm: Pap left a message for you in #RO [13.07.2017 05:54:26]: "Hello"
<Dasm>
:D
<Dasm>
NathanKell|NOMZ: Is playing Unity?
<Pap>
He is always listed as playing Unity
<Dasm>
Does that mean he's working?
<Pap>
He's always working to some degree, but it probably is just open in the background
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
My work machine is on
<Dasm>
Pap: Can you reccoment difficulty settings?
<Dasm>
reccomend
<Pap>
I am playing on Normal right now because I want to enjoy this playthrough, not be as challenged
<Pap>
NathanKell, who is really, really, really good, plays on Hard
<github>
[RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQ9BX
<github>
RP-0/Pap-TechTree faef4c8 pap1723: Change Cost of Lunar Range Comms...
<Dasm>
I don't see a RO config for KCT
<Pap>
It is built in
<Pap>
When you first start, it will ask you for a pre-set, select RP-0
<Pap>
Hmmm, looks like you have an error with your RP-0 install
<Pap>
Can you take an iamge of your RP-0 folder?
<Dasm>
Pap: Yeahh, i don't have your tech tree
<Dasm>
OH!
<Dasm>
I didn't install the new one after I deleted the old one
<Pap>
lol
<blowfish>
NathanKell|NOMZ: sorry, had to leave about when the stream was starting
<blowfish>
just watching now
<blowfish>
what were you asking about AJE?
<Dasm>
Pap: What's rate 1 and rate 2?
<Pap>
Dasm: it is the speed that your craft will build at. Typically with your starting Upgrade points, you want to put all but 2-3 into VAB Build Rate 1, the others go into R&D
<Dasm>
Is rate 2 like a 2nd parallel construction?
<Pap>
Yes, but you can't actually unlock that until you upgrade the VAB (will be way down the road)
<Qboid>
Pap|Sleep: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<egg>
!wpn lamont
* Qboid
gives lamont a shift/reduce hydra
<egg>
!wpn NathanKell|NOMZ
* Qboid
gives NathanKell|NOMZ a Lipschitz iron
<egg>
!wpn stratochief
* Qboid
gives stratochief a frꙮg-like zero
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<Starwaster>
!tell lamont your peg guidance needs to check for lift off event (forget what it's actually named) and reset its clock when it triggers. As it is now, if the MET time starts because of bad physics on the launch pad, it can make it start PEG far too early.
<Qboid>
Starwaster: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Starwaster>
!tell lamont it also needs to respect autostage settings, or at least have enough of a delay to allow for ullaging motors to have an effect
<Qboid>
Starwaster: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Starwaster>
I swear to god Unity and KSP are making me lose my sanity now
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<taniwha>
!tell blowfish why you make life difficult? (no worries, mate: I got things working, just had some "fun" with runtime api versions)
<Qboid>
taniwha: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Pap|Sleep>
nick Pap
Pap|Sleep is now known as Pap
<Pap>
o/
<egg|work|egg>
!wpn Pap
* Qboid
gives Pap a rocky catenoid
* Pap
doesn't know what 99% of egg's weapons are
<Thomas>
!wpn egg|work|egg
* Qboid
gives egg|work|egg a corrosive circle
<Maxsimal>
Pap \o
<soundnfury>
Pap: well, catenoids are on topic, because they're only three Wikipedia-hops away from the RM-81 Agena!
<Theysen>
those days where the nearest thing you do in regards to KSP playing is checking GitHub
* Theysen
votes for 48h days
<Maxsimal>
:P Yeah I know. Thought last night I was just feeling tired from wrestling with unreal, I just played, didn't work on those part tagging MM patches at all :P
<Theysen>
wrestling with unreal? Unreal Engine?
<Maxsimal>
yeah
<Theysen>
ohmygawd updated rssve release soon <3
<Maxsimal>
I've been avoiding it, I hear you can't go back once you have it, but I don't want to lose my framerate :P
<Theysen>
that's the pita :D
<Theysen>
but wurf once you leave LEO
<Theysen>
and generally for LEO too. You need it.
<Pap>
Theysen: won't the updated RSSVE release be for 1.3? Or does Phineas Freak know that RSS is not on it's way there yet?
<Theysen>
Pap, we agreed on "backporting" due to the last part of your ques
<Theysen>
the fixes are too good to be hold back
<Maxsimal>
Guess I will try it out when the new one is out
<Theysen>
newest scatterer wrecks my setup so I think I can't use it unfortunately
<Pap>
Maxsimal: I was considering installing it for my USA playthrough that I started last night (I still might)
<Theysen>
DO IT
<Pap>
Theysen: I feel like every version of scatterer tries to add more = more slow downs. Please just optimize the code instead
<Theysen>
Pap, I disabled the ocean refractions immediately
<Theysen>
testing the port back atm for RSSVE in 1.2.2 atm
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Cool, will you be posting details of your playthrough?
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Btw, not that I'm trying to push or anything, but did you look at those payload-based sounding rocket contracts?
<Pap>
Maxsimal: yes, I think I will be. I will not be as detailed as you are, but I took images of the 2 sounding rockets I have launched so far
<Theysen>
Pap, I hope you're on hard :^)
* Theysen
should actually look at fixing the issue with the RealEngines configs
<Pap>
Maxsimal: I did, but I am not going to lie, I don't know how I want to implement them. I really like your thinking on the payouts, and that is the way we will go. I just need to figure out the payload masses and altitudes and I think tha tis going to require a lot of testing (I am tired of launching sounding rockets, I have run the first 3 years of RP-0 about 10 times in the last month for testing)
<Maxsimal>
Pap: I don't think mine is that detailed either, not compared to some good ones I've seen.
<Pap>
Theysen: hell no, I am on normal, I want this one to be an enjoyable play-through, was getting a little burned out with the testing and failing and failing and pushing as well
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Gotcha. Well let me know if I can offer any help with that part of it. In my playthrough I've done at least 60 sound rocket launches to fill the 'dead time' and I would love to do something more interesting with them
<Bornholio>
why ^
<Maxsimal>
Bornholio: Because I wouldn't be true to doing it as a speed run if I didn't keep my VAB constantly building.
<Pap>
Maxsimal: I think that part of the answer to that problem might come with ferram's military contracts he is working on
<Bornholio>
for the love of god and all that is holy STAHP its not a spped run, its a lsow motion run
<Theysen>
^ NO
<Theysen>
If you grind sounding rockets before you do anything serious you get burnt out before you launched your first orbital
<Maxsimal>
Bornholio: I'm almost out of the doldrums. Plus it's not that hard, I just read something in another window and hit 'stage' when it's needed. I wonder if the mechjeb guys could add a SFX to make it go 'ding' when you're 5 seconds from the stage being exhausted.
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<Maxsimal>
Theysen: I've launched my first 5-6 orbitals. There's just a lot of time needed to get to 1956-1957 orbital rocketry
<Theysen>
Maxsimal, absolutely easy to write a krpc or Kos script for the dang sounders
<Maxsimal>
Theysen: I'm sure, but I spend enough of my day writing scripts. :P
<Theysen>
Maxsimal, just 5 lines of code :P :D
<Maxsimal>
Theysen: Even if you need to do hot staging?
<Theysen>
Maxsimal, yeah I'd think so. Just make it ignite a fixed resource amount or even set a timer when the whole stage burns for 50.2 seconds to ignite at 49.2 or so
<Pap>
Maxsimal: sounds like it is worth it for you to write a REALLY simple kOS script for the sounding rockets
<Pap>
Damn, I should have read everything instead! Theysen already mentioned it
<Theysen>
LazyPap
<Pap>
Theysen: I deleted RealEngines from my install (I know I am playing as US, but I wasn't before) There just seems to be too many issues from the actual modded parts on that one before RO configs even touch it
<Pap>
What engine in particular is giving you trouble though? I like bug hunting
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<Theysen>
Pap, it doesn't delete the stock fuels and when you right click to fill the tank it shows the stock fuels besides the real ones
<Theysen>
and I really want to have my Proton perfect. Not bugged
<Theysen>
yeah the R-7 engines seem to have trouble
<Theysen>
we just need to get shadowmage to make some early us engines and we can make sstu the main us line lol now with the capsules
<Pap>
Theysen: which Proton engines?
<Pap>
Theysen: doesn't sound like he is going to. People were asking about the LR91 and he seemed REALLY against it
<Theysen>
Pap, all Proton engines inside of RealEngines, RD-253, RD-0210, RD-0212
<Theysen>
Pap, yes he only seems to make engines fitting for actual NEED performancewise for a gameplay. If it performs like something already there he doesn't do it.
<Theysen>
why he then made all RL-10 variants with 10kN of thrust in a stock solar system is a valid question. :D
<Pap>
lol
<Pap>
Theysen: have you tried a simple hack on the RealEngines? Instead of modifying the resources, delete the resources outright and then add them again?
<Theysen>
yes they are getting deleted, iirc PhineasFreak configged them and usually he doesn't make errors
<Theysen>
I will go ahead and just ! everything and apply the global config
<Pap>
I am looking at the engine now
<Pap>
It looks clean to me
<SirKeplan>
which engine is this?
<Pap>
RealEngines RD-253, RD-0210, RD-0212
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<Theysen>
and iirc the upper stage too, the RD-58M
<Theysen>
I don't know what's happening there, I check the mod config too
<SirKeplan>
hmmm, very odd
<SirKeplan>
looked in ModuleManager.ConfigCache ?
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<Theysen>
will do, i assume something reapplies something after RO had its go
<SirKeplan>
yeah possibly another mod doing something strange
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<SirKeplan>
i think cryotanks(or something similar) used to be problematic in the past, but that should be ok now
<Theysen>
I don't have anything fancy in the install. Just RP-0 and realengines
<SirKeplan>
oh
<Theysen>
should help narrowing it down :)
<Theysen>
SirKeplan, would you have a key word I have to look for in the MM Cache?
<Theysen>
or a general "region" where things get applied or go wrong?
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<taniwha>
almost have a nasty bug in MFT fixed
<taniwha>
(affects RF, too)
<Theysen>
SirKeplan, Pap, fixed it. I just deleted the fuel definitions inside the RO config
<Theysen>
for whatever reason they don't get properly applied though
<Pap>
That is what my recommednation was Theysen, it doesn't make a lot of sense though, why only those engines?
<Theysen>
Really no idea. The other engines are configged the same but still behave normally.
<Theysen>
I don't know why to configure everything inside of the RO patch config when there are the global configs which work perfectly, will PR then..
<Pap>
Theysen: I think it is a holdover from the bygone days. I haven't heard a good explanation otherwise
<Theysen>
yes heard the same.
<Theysen>
Alright then. I am ready then for those GLONASS contracts. Come at me bro.
<Pap>
DON'T DO IT!! You'll never forgive yourself!
<Theysen>
FIRST GPS THEN GLONASS THEN GALILEO.
<Theysen>
I'LL HAVE THOSE IN MY CAREER.
* Theysen
installs TooManyOrbits
<Theysen>
you know, somebody has to playtest them lol
<Pap>
BTW, you cannot do the GPS and GLONASS contracts, they are exclusive from each other
<Theysen>
RP doesn't stand for roleplaying Pap :^)
<Theysen>
I don't want to imagine the backprocessing of all those satellites if you had them up.
<Bornholio>
72 GPS satellites in a contract :) i'll take that
<Bornholio>
Need more functions in object sorting on the map. Need three colors and a couple custom icons to use so i can make constellations and hide them easy
<Theysen>
Bornholio, hopefully in RT in the future. One dev has a testbed for those in stock
<regex>
In the patched conic approximation, used in estimating the trajectories of bodies moving between the neighbourhoods of different masses using a two body approximation (ellipses and hyperbolae), the SOI is taken as the boundary where the trajectory switches which mass field it is influenced by.
<regex>
Forgot quotes, but that's what's used in KSP
<taniwha>
Pap: SoI and patched conics were good enough for Voyager :)
<Pap>
Wow, didn't know that, thanks
<Pap>
well then Bornholio your answer is on that sheet
<regex>
Sure. I remember an anecdote from early KSP development where they basically said they implemented all their equations from Wikipedia. :)
<taniwha>
it was some guy (intern) going through SoI/patch conic exercises that noticed that the voyager mission was possible
<Bornholio>
lol, its not a fixed radius? .sigh
<taniwha>
regex: very believable
<taniwha>
(and sad, considering the amount of acos in there)
<regex>
lol
<taniwha>
acos bad, atan/atan2 good
<Starwaster>
taniwha what nasty bug were you referring to earlier? (in MFT)
<taniwha>
Starwaster: details linked above, but it involved editing a tank (eg, flt-200) to have only monoprop, then cloning via symmetry
<taniwha>
PAW on one tank would be very badly broken and generate an NRE flood
<Dasm>
Pap: I had 2 things... 1) I'm getting a lot of the stock missions (transport x part to x situation) and 2) I upgraded my launch pad, but the visual asset for it didn't change, it still looks like the t1 pad
<Bornholio>
dasm what level
<Bornholio>
and are you suing a save that you brough over from something other than Paps RP-0
<Bornholio>
using
<Dasm>
Bornholio: I started a new game. And level 2
<Bornholio>
level 1&2 use the L1 graphics
<Bornholio>
since there is 7 pad levesl and onlny three graphics
<Dasm>
Ohhhhh
<Bornholio>
and i can't type worth crap :P
<Bornholio>
is there any reason why the part , RO configs, RT configs and other normally MM things cannot be put all in the same config as the original part?
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<Raidernick>
hey ferram4 you around?
<Maxsimal>
o/
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<Dasm>
Bornholio: I didn't delete the mm configs, should I do that?
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<Pap>
Dasm: Are you still getting the RP-0 contracts?
<Bornholio>
shouldn't need to. but the contracts is a option setting page
<Pap>
o/ Maxsimal
<Dasm>
I'll ask Pap about it when he's around
<Pap>
I'm around...
<Dasm>
I wonder when he will be around
<Pap>
Looking for him
<Dasm>
Pap: Should I be having stock contracts?
<Bornholio>
should not need anything except RP-0 radio button on
<Dasm>
Radio button?
<Pap>
Go into Difficulty Settings, Contract Configurator and take a screenshot of what that looks like
<Bornholio>
or maybe Scansat if you hvae that :p pap broke those somehow and its magic when they show up
<Starwaster>
my monitor REALLY needs cleaning when I'm mistaking bits of grime for scatter
<Pap>
Bornholio: Pap broke nothing!
<Bornholio>
MAGIC
<Pap>
CC has overwhlemed the mission control room with too many contracts
<Pap>
DMAGIC?
<Pap>
^^^See what I did there?
<Bornholio>
yes
<Pap>
xShadowx would be proud
<Bornholio>
FM pricinciple of operation
<Bornholio>
principle :/
<Dasm>
Guys?
<Dasm>
Europa has liquid water under the surface of its ice, right?
<Bornholio>
Guysers?
<Bornholio>
didn't know you were making a pun did you
<Dasm>
What's the likely hood of there being life there? I mean... "life will find a way" and all that
<Pap>
Dasm: That is what the Europa mission hopes to find out
<Pap>
We truly have no idea how common life is in the Universe. We are not made up of unique elements, so using that as a basis, it should be relatively common. However, as we know, right now, life has only formed on one place in the whole Universe
<Bornholio>
statistics being what they are even student T can't tell us
<Dasm>
To be fair, we have found fossilized bacteria in Mars rock
<Bornholio>
^ or not
<Bornholio>
like looking at clouds and seeing abunny
<Bornholio>
most of the investigators concluded that that single item was pretty weak. made for gread headlines though
<Bornholio>
great
<Dasm>
Pap: Oh, all of the stock contracts are turned on
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
is it normal that even with six Reflectron KR-7 on the Atmospheric Analysis satellite sending the data from the Film Return Camera from LEO takes about 10 minutes?
<Pap>
That shouldn't have been like that
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: nope, that sounds very wrong
<Dasm>
Which ones do I turn off?
<Bornholio>
Hyper. no don't press transmit!
<Bornholio>
yes it is
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: in the antenna's description it says 'live video from the moon' ... this is just a picture.. doesnt make sense :p
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
the contract actually allows me to use a return probe instead, so no transmitting necessary. but still..
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Do you mind if I take a crack at the sounding rocket contract thing?
<Bornholio>
you said normal not realistic
<Pap>
Maxsimal: Please do!
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Thanks
<Dasm>
Pap: Which stock contracts should be disabled?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: I guess I'll make the sat reenter then :P
<Pap>
Dasm: Every single one of them
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: I believe it is because the Film Return data is huge, so it takes a long time
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
fair enough..
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
not that I'd have any idea regarding the transmitting bandwidth in the early 70s with 60s technology :P
<Bornholio>
it has a huge transmit multiplier "@dataScale = 1000 // i.e. don't try to transmit this.
<Bornholio>
"
<Dasm>
Pap: Uhmmmmm- I disabled them and I'm still getting parts testing contracts
<Bornholio>
thye won't go away immediatly
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: good to know! I guess that's why they call it 'Film RETURN camera' :D
<Pap>
^^
<Bornholio>
same for the big orbital science experiment thingy
<egg>
!wpn Pap
* Qboid
gives Pap a gadolinium ray tube
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Can you point me at the file you made a new resource with?
<Bornholio>
Pap last night i ran my missions like mad and got to year eight, I have almost every tech through early 70's
<Pap>
Bornholio: WHAT! You are in 1959 and you are researched through the 70!'s?
<Dasm>
Do I just earn BP over time?
<Bornholio>
no, one each tech or 10kfunds spent on them
<Dasm>
Each tech?
<Bornholio>
Pap yes, playing aggressively doing contracts that pay good, using an aggressive focus on tech speed and basic investment in pad and BP
<Dasm>
Each time I research a tech node I get a point?
<Bornholio>
dasm yes, as you spend science on a tech you get a BP
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Btw I'm just learning to use github now, I may flub things up a bit
<Bornholio>
maxsimal make your fork and smash away
<Maxsimal>
Bornholio: I've done that part at least
<Pap>
Wow Bornholio, so you were actively trying to go as fast as possible?
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<Starwaster>
Has anyone produced any 'realistic' scramjet configs? ('realistic' considering there's too much about them unknown or classified right now)
<Pap>
So, then how does the speed / difficulty feel? Also, what difficulty level?
<Bornholio>
pap moderate, sometimes slow, always way ahead on tech needing to be earned
<Bornholio>
othertimes you have bursts of science or cash
<Maxsimal>
So, I have the github desktop app. I have my fork of RP-0. I've made changes to a file within it, pointing at pap's branch, and I hit 'Repository/push' - but I don't see that file change reflected in my fork on the website. Any ideas?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Hypergolic_Skunk: It's film *return* camera, not transmit camera. Transmission should be nigh impossible. I'm impressed it transmitted at all. IIRC I didn't find a way to fully prevent transmission, or didn't want to, so I just made it take a super long time
<NathanKell|WORK>
oh whoops you already said that.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NathanKell|WORK: that's fine. I don't mind actual recovery, but I'd have preferred not to even be given the choice :)
<waerloga_>
can't model it like the bio experiment?
<waerloga_>
almost no data return via transmission
<NathanKell|WORK>
25% for bio
<NathanKell|WORK>
for film return, I think my thinking was, with a high enough tech antenna transmission becomes possible
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it's not about the amount of data
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
err
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
science
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it's about the amount of data
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
sry, confusing
<regex>
I was looking at costs in RO, it seems that some aren't balanced. Should I assume that the FASA RO craft are correct?
<regex>
^RP-0, rather
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<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: The issue is that RP-0 currently tried to model manufacture cost without modeling launch cost.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Also, there's *extremely* limited data on what stuff actually cost
<regex>
Sure, but that's not what I'm asking.
<NathanKell|WORK>
The former we are trying to fix
<NathanKell|WORK>
FASA craft are liable to be the best-costed
<regex>
I downloaded the RO craft files and the costs for the same craft are all over the place.
<NathanKell|WORK>
because they're from NASA programs of record and therefore there's data
<regex>
thanks, that's what I wanted to know.
<NathanKell|WORK>
You donwloaded different variations of, like, what? Mercury-Atlas? Titan-Gemini? Apollo-Saturn-something?
<regex>
Yeah
<regex>
The RO craft files from CKAN
<NathanKell|WORK>
what versions other than FASA are there?
<regex>
RN, RSP?, and I think another one
<NathanKell|WORK>
Oh, huh, didn't realize they had the spacecraft as well as the LVs.
<regex>
But really I'm just trying to calibrate Monthly Budget, it's no big deal and I totally understand why not everything is priced.
<NathanKell|WORK>
then that sounds wrong, because they should end up the same cost
<regex>
Sure. but if FASA is the baseline then that's great because that's what I was going to go from
<NathanKell|WORK>
yeah, think so, but there will be some issues there too IIRC
<Bornholio>
NK Gieger counters should progress from electroscopes to, ionization chambers, geiger counter, geiger muller, cloud chambers coincidence counters, emulsion counters, Scintilation counters, sCherenkov Detectors, transition radiation detectors, calorimeters oh wait i'm insane and have
<regex>
Of course, but the important thing is that I can see a "somewhat approved baseline."
<NathanKell|WORK>
I can tell you what things cost if made without stock craft--something like 5k for a sat launch, 10k for a 1 person mission, 15-20k for geostationary or a medium capsule or a small lunar probe
<NathanKell|WORK>
Bornholio: :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Bornholio: put it on the sheet :)
<regex>
I have to change building costs too because of how Monthly Budgets works.
<regex>
I might just do some coding ont he mod but ~effort~
<NathanKell|WORK>
hah :P
<regex>
I think I am going to have to do some coding anyway, it doesn't use config files and I really want to change how it calculates, maybe borrow the math parser from KCT...
<regex>
really depends.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: how close to the target area do I have to be in the initial Atmospheric Analysis contract? I've been a degree or two off, and still the game would neither inform me 'you are entering target area' (or something similar) or would the 'Image the target area' condition go green. assuming you created this contract :P
<Maxsimal>
The contract configurator wiki says you can retrieve a persistent stored value with $ but in the contract I'm looking at, it seems to use @/ . Anyone know if both are valid, or is the wiki wrong?
<NathanKell|WORK>
@ means it's in the contract
<NathanKell|WORK>
$ means it's in the datastore alone I think
<Pap>
Maxsimal: ^^^ correct
<NathanKell|WORK>
look at the records contracts if you want to see persistent values used
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: There is no waypoint target area for early Atmospheric Analysis contract
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Just needs spcific orbit parameters and barometer / thermometer
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
bloody hell I'm stupid
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I am not talking about the atmospheric analysis contract, but the Earth observation Imaging Satellite. sry :)
<Pap>
Bloody hell!? That's not a German statement :)
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Blutige Hölle!
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: when was the last time you downloaded the RP-0 ?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I guess two weeks ago or so
<Maxsimal>
NathanKell: That's where I'm looking. Also the soundingHigh contract where it's reading the index - but I don't see a $ in the soundingHigh contract.
<NathanKell|WORK>
then just do what it does there, cuz it works :)
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: yeah, that contract was slightly bugged, if you are close, then you should ALT-F12 yourself complete.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: ^ any way to do this without comprimising my entire career?
<Dasm>
Pap: I should be in orbit during year 2
<Pap>
If you ALT-F12 go to contracts and active, you can mark it as complete and it will give you credit for completeing the contract (with payouts as well) doesn't ruin anything else in career
<Pap>
Dasm: with the X-1 cockpit?
<Dasm>
Yup!
<NathanKell|WORK>
Dasm: TF installed?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Can't see from pic
<Dasm>
Yes
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: ok, I guess that's better than a reinstall :p thank you!
<NathanKell|WORK>
Then cool, best of luck on orbiting :)
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: OK, we need to stop people from doing that!
<Dasm>
Stop people from getting into space with the X1 pit?
<NathanKell|WORK>
or getting into orbit early?
<NathanKell|WORK>
I'm unclear
<Pap>
Getting to oribt without unlocking Capsules
<NathanKell|WORK>
The way we generally stop it was by not allowing life support to unlock until you're nearly at capsules
<Dasm>
Oh no, this isn't orbit, I don't plan on manned orbit without a capsule
<Maxsimal>
You could require a full orbit for the orbit milestone.
<Pap>
It is from the great mod Better Than Starting Manned
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ah, hmm.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yeah, think we do need something like that, although the issue isn't that, it's not having pressure suits
<NathanKell|WORK>
(and melting on the way back)
<Pap>
:)
<Pap>
Melting would be bad
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: is that Earth Observation contract a requirement for other contracts, such as the constellation contract you gave me, or the comsat network contract?
<NathanKell|WORK>
we might maybe set an extra temp limit on cockpits that ignores occlusion
<NathanKell|WORK>
and we can set pressure limits when you don't have basic life support researched
<NathanKell|WORK>
to represent lack of pressure suits
<regex>
Yep, launch X-1 cockpit straight up on an A-4, cut engines when AP reaches about 150km, it'll survive and you can get the Karman Line human achievements.
<regex>
No occlusion needed, just a chute
<NathanKell|WORK>
To be fair, that's realisitc
<NathanKell|WORK>
Well, 90% realistic
<acharles>
NathanKell|WORK: But humans have pressure limits both ways. Too little pressure and too much pressure.
<xShadowx>
whats the high pressure limit?
<acharles>
xShadowx: It depends.
<regex>
well if it's realistic then, awesome, I'm going to keep doing it.
<acharles>
xShadowx: nitrogen narcosis starts at 3-4 atmospheres of pressure, if breathing air
<Qboid>
lamont: Starwaster left a message for you in #RO [13.07.2017 08:47:44]: "your peg guidance needs to check for lift off event (forget what it's actually named) and reset its clock when it triggers. As it is now, if the MET time starts because of bad physics on the launch pad, it can make it start PEG far too early."
<Qboid>
lamont: Starwaster left a message for you in #RO [13.07.2017 08:57:27]: "it also needs to respect autostage settings, or at least have enough of a delay to allow for ullaging motors to have an effect"
<Qboid>
lamont: egg left a message for you in #RO [13.07.2017 18:41:38]: "principia#1468 resolves the Gaillyzip issue"
<Dasm>
Is RP0's tac LS config configured for Kerbal consumption, or human consumption?
<acharles>
Maxsimal: Yeah, which is why I said it depends. :P
<NathanKell|WORK>
Human. And it's in RO not RP-0
<Maxsimal>
acharles: I know, was just adding my own factoid.
<regex>
Dasm, how do we know what Kerbal's realistically consume?
<NathanKell|WORK>
1/4 what a human does, by my fiat.
<acharles>
NathanKell|WORK: haha
<Maxsimal>
regex: The greener they are, the more CO2 they use.
<Dasm>
regex: Calculate consumption based on body mass?
<egg>
lamont: Jean-Loup Gailly made gzip :-p
<Maxsimal>
Dasm: Would you include the pow .75 metabolism rule?
<egg>
s/L/l/ apparently
<lamont>
NathanKell|WORK: you know which event trigger that is that fires on launch?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Alas no.
<lamont>
because i switched that to MET because of all kinds of other awful issues i was having with tracking it myself
<lamont>
!tell Starwaster I’m not sure what “respect autostage settings” means, since the code uses the autostaging module in mechjeb so it should autostage identically. PEG itself gets confused by hot staging, drop tanks and other general weirdness, but that is a much deeper issue than just autostaging (and i autostage all the time with solid ullage motors to test), but that’s why there’s the “reinit staging analysis” button for now.
<Qboid>
lamont: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Starwaster>
lamont this was in PEG-13, haven't retested in PEG-15 but what prompted that report was a series of rapid-fire staging including staging of separation motors that caused my third stage engine to shutdown due to vapor in the feedline
<Qboid>
Starwaster: lamont left a message for you in #RO [13.07.2017 18:53:50]: "I’m not sure what “respect autostage settings” means, since the code uses the autostaging module in mechjeb so it should autostage identically. PEG itself gets confused by hot staging, drop tanks and other general weirdness, but that is a much deeper issue than just autostaging (and i autostage all the time with solid ullage motors
<Qboid>
to test), but that’s why there’s the “reinit staging analysis” button for now."
<Starwaster>
oh FFS qboid I was HERE when he said it
<Starwaster>
anyway it also ignored the delay limits in the autostager. Just fired everything right after the other with no delays at all
<lamont>
lol
<lamont>
uh
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<Starwaster>
re-analysis won't help if your engine shuts down and has no ignitions left. (I turned off limited ignition for exactly that reason - lately MJ has been rapid fire shutting off and restarting the engines. BUrned through 24 ignitions on a lander causing it to crash)
<lamont>
yeah i don’t think that’s anythig to do with PEG
<Starwaster>
MJ never did that before to me
<Starwaster>
the staging thing that is
<lamont>
the PEG code doesn’t touch autostaging
<Starwaster>
it doesn't stage on its own?
<lamont>
i’ve seen that before when i click “enable” and it immediately starts autostaging before the engines spool up (before i even hit spacebar) and the rocket falls into the launchpad
<lamont>
but only on certain designs and not others
<regex>
grrrrrrrr not logic...
<lamont>
(my atlas-agena never has that problem — the saturn-I-piggy that ferram built does that reasonably frequently though)
<lamont>
it might be some kind of weird SSTU-MJ-staging-physics-init bug
<lamont>
i’m reasonably skeptical that is anything to do with PEG though
<Starwaster>
ok never mind then
<lamont>
and the lander autopilot on latest MJ is a mess, particularly with RO/RF, suicide burn calcs are all over the place, and unthrottlable engines are hilariously bad
<lamont>
it used to do something more like a proper suicide burn so that unthrottlable engines worked better — i suspect that occasionally lithobraked because the math wasn’t correct, and so people started kerballing around with it and make it throttle more again — because stock throttling
<lamont>
i was having that problem with dev builds of MJ before i ever wrote a line of PEG code…
<Bornholio>
^ agree
<Bornholio>
machine gunning 26 ignitions in a second was my favorite one
<lamont>
yeah it was less machine-gunny for awhile, now its back to constant machine gun again
<lamont>
i’ve got a paper which walks through using IGM for lunar descents
<Bornholio>
I just use the TTI and Suicide burn timers and do it myself
<lamont>
the suicide timer was totally busted with the 1kN thrusters for awhile, and i think its still misbehaving
<Qboid>
[#902] title: fix 1kN thruster suicide burn calc | i'm not sure if real fuels changed its API so that this no longer works... | https://github.com/MuMech/MechJeb2/issues/902
<lamont>
i did that to “
<lamont>
to “fix” it.
<lamont>
but now Agathorn’d engines don’t separate properly with autostaging — but that fix i backed out was wrong and hosed the 1kN thruster — but now MJ still needs to be properly taught about Agathorn’d engines. and i believe that the stuff RF does to lie about things beause MJ doesn’t really understand unthrottable engines isn’t quite working correctly. and the solution is probably that MJ really needs to just understand
<Bornholio>
lol, well soldier on lamont, i'm surprised it doesn't need to be its own tool hwhole hog to deal with the ignitions/ullage/throttle thins
<Dasm>
How do I launch an SRB off of the top of my rocket?
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<Dasm>
Best staging method
<Pap>
Dasm: like have a Solid Booster as an upper stage?
<lamont>
Starwaster: do you know what the launch event is? i could take a look at that one — although i switched to MET from my own shitty launch-time-tracking code because that had too many edge conditions where i got it wrong when people switched away from and back to the code. and the fallback will likely have to remain MET if the launch event is missed.
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<Dasm>
ferram4: If I have a very high TWR rocket int he low atmosphere, I will lose Dv due to drag caused by pressure, I would be better off with a heavier rocket with a longer burn time- is that correct?
<Starwaster>
lamont hang on, I used it myself recently; have to pull up my exp branch of MJ
<Dasm>
And yes Pap
<Pap>
Dasm: You will want to spin up the rocket for stability and then I like to stage the SRM at the same time as the decoupler
<Dasm>
And low ejection force on the decoupler?
<Pap>
That is what I ususally do, but others are much better
<Dasm>
others?
<Pap>
other RO players on this channel
<Maxsimal>
Trying to do sounding rocket contracts Dasm?
<Dasm>
Maxsimal: Yeah.. The highest I've gotten so far is 1,700KM
<NCommander>
Dasm, if you have a very high TWR rocket, you need to coast before lighting up your final stage. It's rather similar to stock since in stock you usually have high TWR
<Maxsimal>
Dasm: Yeah, spin up your rockets a bit, be totally unguided, no avionics besides the sounding rocket core, and if you use liquid stages in atmosphere, you want to 'hot stage' your rocket.
<NCommander>
Spin stabilization is life, spin stabilization is happiness
<Maxsimal>
Dasm: You can make a rocket that will reach 6000km with A-4 and XASR-1 for <500 funds.
<Dasm>
O.o do what?
<NCommander>
Maxsimal, even with test flight?
<Maxsimal>
NCommander: Of course with test flight. Failure rate will be about ~20%
<Maxsimal>
NCommander: Assuming max data, of course.
<NCommander>
Maxsimal, huh
<Maxsimal>
3 stages - 1 A-4, 4 XASR-1, 1 XASR 1
<NCommander>
Maxsimal, yeah I can see that working
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<Maxsimal>
Spin stabilize with fins on the A-4. Make sure you don't over-spin it or you'll have precession issues. A *tiny* amount of tilt is all you need. Hotstage the 4-XASR1 stage - that means starting the engines a second before the A-4 burns out, then decouple after the A-4 burns out.
<Maxsimal>
You want between 1 and 3 rotations per second when the A4 burns out.
<Maxsimal>
Oh, and put some very small fins on the 4 XASR stage , none of the top one.
<Dasm>
I don't think I have a XASR1
<Maxsimal>
You must, it's an upgraded version of the WAC corporal, you unlock it in the 2nd rocketry node in regular RP0
<Maxsimal>
Well, if you only have start-node tech you can still do 6000km, it's a little less reliable though.
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<Sarbian>
People, let me spam the chan for a sec.
<Sarbian>
<Asymptote> I'm writing my Phd dissertation about "co-development strategies in the game software industry", I've chosen KSP as a case study and I need to gather some data and insights from its modders'.
<Sarbian>
<Asymptote> Would you agree to complete an online survey? It takes around 10 to 15mn, it's fully anonymous, and it will be a great help!
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Do you know if there's anyway to test for a mod with CC?
<Dasm>
If you're spinning in KSP and you deploy radial decouplers, Do they get flung out by centrifugal force?
<Sarbian>
So, as I just spammed Asymptote is writting a Phd dissertation and needs some feedback from KSP modders. I have met him and it s totaly legit. If you mods please take some time to fill this out :)
<Sarbian>
lamont, would you be kind enough to repeat that message at a more US friendly time ?
<Pap>
like for a contract parameter Maxsimal?
<NCommander>
Pap, ever get a chance to look at the science defs I wrote? I haven't had a lot of free time to write more unfortunately.
<Dasm>
Pap: You said you were doing something with experiments?
<lamont>
this is a US friendly time, prolly not EU friendly? also which messge?
<Sarbian>
lamont: my last 5 messages, 3 mins ago. It s daytime in the US, it might get more read in the evening
<lamont>
ah
<Pap>
NCommander: Yes I did, I thought I told you...I love the crew reports that you did, I thought the surface samples were a little quirky, but as you said, not much to go off of with them
<Pap>
Dasm: Yes, we are looking at expanding the science experiments availaable
<NCommander>
Pap, I meant in terms of merging, since the PR was still open
<lamont>
got it
<Pap>
Ohhhh NCommander I was going to wait as you said there was more coming. I "try" to do larger batches at a time (unless it directly affects testing, like the tree/contracts, etc)
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Yes, as a contract parameter. I wondered if there's a way to check if testflight is installed.
<Sarbian>
lamont: thanks
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Though I guess I can add an MM patch to remove something if it's not installed.
<Dasm>
Pap: How about... microwave and infrared radiometers, cosmic dust, solar plasma and high-energy radiation, magnetic fields sensor, Cosmic Rays Detection, radio occultation and celestial mechanics
<NCommander>
Pap, I keep merging the branch locally, but I haven't had a bit of free time. I don't care that much since merging science defs doesn't conflict (or hasn't), but I didn't know how you wanted to handle it
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<Dasm>
Maxsimal: I tried launching the XASR-1 from the rocket and got vapor in the fuel lines, did you say that I had to hotstage?
<Maxsimal>
Dasm: Yes, you have to hot stage.
<Maxsimal>
Dasm: Fortunately spool up time for the XASR is pretty much instant, so as long as you stage before the A-4 burnout, you're ok.
<Pap>
NCommander: sounds good. Let me know if you have another big batch that you want me to look at as well
<Maxsimal>
Dasm: Make sure you don't have any impulse on the decouplers, that will help. When did the wobble start, soon after launch or toward the end?
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<Maxsimal>
Pap : will that remove the whole {} after the parameter?
<Dasm>
Maxsimal: I just unlocked Atlas equipment, that's GG
<Maxsimal>
Pap: And I'm trying to have a different data field actually, not a parameter.
<Dasm>
Pap: What if I add something that is already a part of the game that I'm not aware of?
<Pap>
Dasm: That is ok, we will know that and not include it. All of the ones on the sheet might not be approved and completely added either
<Pap>
Maxsimal: is it a DATA field?
<Maxsimal>
Pap : Yes. I want to set it to some formula if I have TF installed, and 1 if not
<Pap>
you should be able to use that functionality of :NEEDS[TestFlight] for anything
<Pap>
yes, that should work
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Hrmm - cool - can you do :NEEDS[!TestFlight] ?
<soundnfury>
Asymptote: your licensing question only lets me pick one
<soundnfury>
but I've used different licenses for different mods
<soundnfury>
should I put it under Other?
<Pap>
Yes Maxsimal
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Cool!
B787_Work is now known as B787_300
<Asymptote>
soundfury: yes
<Asymptote>
And explain in the next question why you choose to do that
<Bornholio>
what mod changes my time date to 1951...
<Dasm>
I think RO does it
<Maxsimal>
You have some odd textures
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: mixture of RO and RSSDateTimeFormatter, I think?
<soundnfury>
oh maybe RSS sets the epoch actually
<Dasm>
Maxsimal: Odd?
<Pap>
RSSDateTimeFormatter does it on its own
<Maxsimal>
Dasm: They just look stretched weirdly, am I wrong?
<soundnfury>
Pap: right, but KerbalAlarmClock also knows about it, which is what I was thinking of
<Dasm>
Nope, just bare metal texture
<Bornholio>
ah must be RSSTF that i'm missing
<NathanKell|WORK>
Asymptote, Sarbian Cool, gonna take the survey
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Any idea why reload contracts in the contract configurator debug says "Broken"?
<Pap>
Bornholio: did you ever figure out the FASA antenna issue
<Pap>
Asymptote: All done
<Bornholio>
no didn't pap
<Pap>
Maxsimal: I believe they took it out of there
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Is there another way to do it, besides reloading the game?
<Pap>
Maxsimal: You can ALT-F11 and reload MM, but that sometimes breaks as well
<NathanKell|WORK>
Asymptote: Do you want me to answer as of when I was most active, or as of now?
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<NathanKell|WORK>
Asymptote: also does RO count as one project or as like 6? It's at least six repos
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: I counted it as one, but it is probably more than one
* NCommander
made an entire pizza disappear >.>
<Asymptote>
Thank you guys, the survey counter has ignited. Hope to get plenty, so don't hesitate to spread the word :)
<Dasm>
Agathorn killed my rocket :(
<NCommander>
If rocket murder was a crime, Agathorn|Away would be a mass murderer :)
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Reloading the game is gonna get old :P
<Bornholio>
^ yes
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<NCommander>
But nothing feels like satification when Agathorn|Away strikes, and I still make it to orbit
<Bornholio>
minor change welcome to reparse the whole shebang
<Dasm>
NCommander: WELLL it killed one of my LR81 boosters on my Atlas
<Bornholio>
I've got an Agathorn in my side
<Asymptote>
NathanKell|WORK, I want you to answer the way it "sounds" the best from your viewpoint.
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<Asymptote>
NathanKell|WORK, I don't know what you mean with RO count. I'm a KSP enthusiast but no modder. Does RO count for several project? Are you the maintainer of the 6 repos?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yes, and yes
<Asymptote>
NathanKell|WORK, Depends on how you guys here define RO, I guess?
<NathanKell|WORK>
RO is both a mod itself (a collection of module manger configs and other things), and a suite of required mods (a number of which I maintain[ed] or am otherwise involved in)
<NathanKell|WORK>
so, like, it requires (and has configs for) Real Fuels, Real Solar System, RealHeat, FAR, AJE, etc
<Asymptote>
I see, but FAR is a different mod maintained by Ferram if I'm not mistaken
<NCommander>
Dasm, that happened to one of my R7 boosters, but I was able to pump fuel out of it and into one of the other tanks and kept burning longer
<NathanKell|WORK>
But RF, RSS, RH, and a good few others are or were mine :)
<Asymptote>
So count it like RO + the other mod projects you're currently involved in
<NathanKell|WORK>
Well, already submitted anyway, put '6'. Which seems about right
<NathanKell|WORK>
(Fewer things than I've actually ever maintained or released, but many have fallen by the wayside now and many are subsumed under RO)
<NCommander>
Asymptote, RO is essentially a modpack, and a mod itself that changes KSP to match reality. There are a lot of third party components like ferram4's FAR, plus the stuff Squad gave us in stock, like physics.
<Asymptote>
I'll understand that you are very busy with those :)
<NCommander>
Asymptote, there's also a lot of optional third party mods that is popular in the realism overhaul community, like principa n-body physics
<NathanKell|WORK>
It's basically the only Total Conversion that KSP's ever had, but part of the way it does that is by leveraging existing mods
<Asymptote>
NCommander, interesting. Isn't that the logic of a lot of mods in KSP? Being interoperable I mean.
<NathanKell|WORK>
It's an enitrely different ecosystem.
<NathanKell|WORK>
s/enit/enti/
<Qboid>
NathanKell|WORK meant to say: It's an entirely different ecosystem.
<NCommander>
Asymptote, well, yes and no. Because RO makes some rather fundamental changes on how engines work (ulliage, and (lack of) throttling), a lot of mods are incompatible w/ RO
<NCommander>
Asymptote, you could theorically drop in any engine pack you want, but it won't work properly or be balanced because the balance of most mods is for stock physics.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Plus the fact that it's a total conversion towards realism (the real solar system, real parts with real stats, etc), so all the SOKERBAL mods don't fit at all
<Asymptote>
NathanKell|WORK, SVE wasn't considered a Total conversion, sort of?
<NathanKell|WORK>
That's a graphical improvement pack.
<NCommander>
Asymptote, that just makes the game pretty, it doesn't change the solar system.
<NathanKell|WORK>
We change gameplay fundamentally.
<Asymptote>
I see
<NCommander>
Asymptote, a big thing about stock KSP that isn't obvious is the fact that real life rocket engines don't work like they do in KSP
<NathanKell|WORK>
^
<NCommander>
Asymptote, a lot of them can't throttle at all, and of those that can, most can only shallow throttle
<NCommander>
As far as production deep throttling (that is can go from 100%-~20% burn) engines, only the LM Descent engine comes to mind
<NathanKell|WORK>
the front page of the wiki has a tldr
<NCommander>
Asymptote, for example, SpaceX's Falcon9 can't deep throttle at all. What they do is simply only burn three of nine engines to come back.
<NCommander>
and because they have a +1 TWR even on three engines due to !fuel, they have to hover slam.
<Dasm>
TF is going to kill my AJ10.. isn't it
<NathanKell|WORK>
Odds are good
<NathanKell|WORK>
or bad, depending.
<NCommander>
Dasm, TF is going to kill your everything :)
<NCommander>
Asymptote, another way to look at it is with a bit of skill, getting usable (and useful) SSTOs in stock is quite doable
<NCommander>
Asymptote, in RO, it's barely possible, and not with useful payload
<NathanKell|WORK>
And HTHL SSTOs are worse :P
<NCommander>
Esp. HTHL VTOLs
<NCommander>
er, SSTOs
<NathanKell|WORK>
haha
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, right, technically Falcon9 is SSTO capable, it just can't take any payload with it
<NCommander>
(or so says Elon Musk)
<regex>
The existence of SSTO Spaceplanes in quantity and styling is evidence that stock KSP is not realistic.
<Asymptote>
NCommander, Thanks for the explanation. So RO is basically putting realism back into the core mechanics.
<regex>
SPEISPLAIN
<NCommander>
Asymptote, that's a decent way to put it. Don't get me wrong, stock KSP has a LOT of science. Even with only a 1-body physics simulation, you get a damn good understanding of orbital mechanics
<Asymptote>
Should install it someday. Plain 1.3 compatible?
<NCommander>
Asymptote, we're still on 1.2
<NCommander>
Not that 1.3 really added much.
<Asymptote>
Alright
<Dasm>
Not having fuel pressure killed my AJ10 fml
<NCommander>
Asymptote, the way to think of KSP stock is it's a fun game based on real life orbital mechanics
<egg>
<Asymptote> NCommander, Thanks for the explanation. So RO is basically putting realism back into the core mechanics. << and ferram4's FAR into the aerodynamics, principia into the gravity :D
<NCommander>
Asymptote, realism overhaul adds real science (and planet sizes) to launch and landing. Once you're actually in space, the basic gameplay is the same.
<Asymptote>
NCommander, But not an n-body physics simulation
<NCommander>
egg, RO doesn't ship principia out of the box.
<regex>
Principia adds that
<NCommander>
egg, you can add that to stock if you want crazy orbits :)
<NCommander>
er, Asymptote
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<NCommander>
Asymptote, honestly, once you have a big enough rocket, going to the moon in RO from LEO isn't super different than in stock except the moon is on a 24 degree inclination.
<egg>
Asymptote: same for FAR, you can add it to stock, getting sensible air but still tiny planets
<NathanKell|WORK>
NCommander: Technically the earth is the one that's tilted :P
<egg>
also principia adds axial tilt
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, I'm aware of that and the fact that the moon is inclined in game because of engine limitations
<egg>
the reason why that's principia's purview is lost to the ages :-p
<NCommander>
unless you have egg's insanity.
<NathanKell|WORK>
egg: ages or aigues
<egg>
NCommander: btw I implemented your feature request
<NCommander>
egg, do you have the GIF of Val being ejected from the Joolian system for Asymptote
<egg>
hm I can find a bunch of principia vids, not sure I have Valls ejection
<NCommander>
Asymptote, when you apply real world physics to KSP, Val either gets ejected out of the solar system or crashes into Tyro
<Maxsimal>
Wish KSP had some sort of file-packing system.
<NCommander>
Asymptote, not that RO/Principia is completely accurate, we don't have atmospheric decay, nor do we simulate mascons, so low lunar orbits are stable
<Asymptote>
Did I just activate the old debate about should KSP be based off real Earth and reflects its entire physical properties, or based off a fictional non-tilted planet with frogs as its denizens ?
<regex>
lolno
<regex>
not in this channel
<regex>
we all know what the game should look like
<NCommander>
In stock RO, the solar system is inclined relative to earth because stock can't handle axial tilt. Principia does unholy things and changes the reference point of the solar system back to Sol :)
<Asymptote>
regex: could you tell me?
<xShadowx>
:)
<Maxsimal>
Asymptote: I don't think so, I would guess that most people even here know KSP made the right choice for broader market appeal - and let us mod it to have what we want too.
<egg>
NCommander: so principia#1469 implements your feature request principia#1457
<regex>
NCommander, the best way to mod KSP is to decompile it
<NCommander>
I learned what I know about KSP modding by reading other people's code
<NCommander>
I never bothered to see if there was an official doc
<NathanKell|WORK>
There wasn't
<NathanKell|WORK>
there kinda is now cuz Mike and I snuck it out during 1.2
<egg>
"kinda" though
<NCommander>
egg, Danny actually used that bug to create a jetsky
<NathanKell|WORK>
Always before the official (well, official from devs, if the actual officials ever heard of it it'd be unofficial) line was, decompile
<NCommander>
*jetski
<NathanKell|WORK>
but as of 1.2 we published the doxygen
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, so KSP has doxygen, but no actual life supprt? :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
although...it's still not that good, although all the new code I wrote I *did* try to document
* NCommander
ducks
<egg>
if you want to know anything about the details of a function's contract you end up eggsperimenting for a few hours (and decompiling, but that's not always enough)
<NCommander>
Asymptote, oh right, we have life support
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yeah, or you ask a dev
<regex>
Yeah, but the amount of reflection that goes into the average mod is pretty crazy
<NathanKell|WORK>
or you become a dev
<NCommander>
Asymptote, I've been playing with a LS mod for so long I forgot its not stock.
<egg>
NathanKell|WORK: that way madness lies
<egg>
let me shun that
<egg>
no more of that
<NathanKell|WORK>
shoo shoo
<egg>
moo moo
<NCommander>
egg, NathanKell|WORK works at valve. Don't you think the first thing they did was lobotimize his sanity, and inject a few kg of patience and perfectism
<NCommander>
It's the only thing that can explain HL3
<NathanKell|WORK>
I will say, though, that (well, most of) the devs did and do care about moddability
<NathanKell|WORK>
but not in the sense of an API, in the sense of directly exposing as much as possible
<egg>
NCommander: frankly I worry less about his sanity here than at squad :-p
<NathanKell|WORK>
Very true.
<NCommander>
egg, yes, but our sanity is based on real life physics
<NathanKell|WORK>
Fewer grues.
<NCommander>
Just because real life physics can be a WTF doesn't mean they're wrong :)
<Pap>
I think you huys have scared poor Asymptote away
<egg>
meanwhile I battle the gods of internationalization
<Pap>
s/huys/guys
<Qboid>
Pap meant to say: I think you guys have scared poor Asymptote away
<egg>
L'International[isation]
<Asymptote>
NCommander, never had more than FAR (for realism sake). Definitely gonna try Principa.
<NathanKell|WORK>
C'est la lutte finale...
<NCommander>
Pap, ... maybe that's why we have trobuel getting people to play RO
<NCommander>
Asymptote, you might as well dive in fully and try the full RO experience. We don't bite. Much.
<NCommander>
Asymptote, once you go procedual tanks, you'll never go back.
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: ELI5, why do ModuleFuelTanks get baseMass = -1?
<egg>
(random pseudoloc generator found online)
<NathanKell|WORK>
means 'RF, don't you go changing my mass'
<Pap>
got it
<Asymptote>
egg: are you the eggrobin with 3,599 commits on Principia's?
<egg>
yes
<egg>
and phl is my father, hence the last names being the same
<NathanKell|WORK>
It's technically not the best, because it means you don't have to pay for what you put in (e.g. on a Mk1 pod, 3600 EC costs as much mass as 360,000 EC, i.e. both cost 0)
<regex>
MUH LEGOS
<egg>
um pleroy
<NCommander>
Asymptote, we're mostly convinced that egg is a bot that eventually gained sentience and now demands people use Principia because virtual universes require n-body physics.
<egg>
that, too
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: That is why the probe cores have basemass equal to their mass, that means for RF to not calculate base mass from volume, but still 'charge' for anything you add
<Asymptote>
egg: you say pleyroy is your father?
<Asymptote>
*pleroy, sorry
<egg>
pleroy on github, whom I often refer to as phl
SirKeplan|AFK is now known as SirKeplan
<egg>
yes
<NCommander>
egg, so how goes implementing quantium physics for KSP :)
<NCommander>
... though I suppose kraken attacks is a decent implementation of that.
<Qboid>
egg thinks NathanKell|WORK meant to say: Oie https:exactement
<egg>
>_>
<NCommander>
Asymptote, where's home for you?
<Asymptote>
Paris
* NCommander
has been
<NCommander>
Took the chunnel from London to Paris after overlanding from Dublin (ferry to Holyhead, rail to Chester, another train to London)
<Asymptote>
Where are you from NCommander ?
<NCommander>
Asymptote, New York, NY, The New World originally
<NCommander>
But I've lived all over the world
* NCommander
has been to ~45 countries, and lived in 7, as well as at least 8 states
<NCommander>
States I've lived in: New York, Connectuit, Mass, Flordia, Texas, Oregon, Alaska ... and probably another one I'm forgetting
<NCommander>
Countries lived in: USA, Mainland China, Panama, Dominican Republic, Costa Rica ... and ....
* NCommander
brainfarts
<NCommander>
Damn it, I know I've lived more places than that
<ProjectThoth>
NCommander: Military?
<NCommander>
Visited: good chunk of SE Asia, northern Europe, large chunks of the Balkins, Ethopia, Eygpt, Iraq (as a tourist),
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, no, I'd be classified F-4, medically unfit to serve.
<Asymptote>
Impressive
<NCommander>
Asymptote, yeah, I'm an American with a passport :)
<NCommander>
By definition I'm already a white unicorn
<NCommander>
or elephant
<ProjectThoth>
Yeah, that's quite the traveling.
<ProjectThoth>
I'm from New Jersey... I went to Ohio once... that's about it.
<NCommander>
The funny thing is Iraq was by far one of the easiest places to get in and out of
* NCommander
has had more trouble going to Canada
<NCommander>
Even had free wifi and coffee in the terminal
<NathanKell|WORK>
NCommander: Whereabouts in CT?
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, currently I'm living in South Norwalk
<Maxsimal>
I'm only on my 5th country lived in, congrats NCommander :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
NO WAY
<NCommander>
I lived a year in Greenwich
<NathanKell|WORK>
Born and raised in Rowayton, spent all my life there until like 8 years ago
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, oooh, I use that train station all the time because it knows the definition of reasonable parking rates
<NCommander>
($7 dollars a day vs SN's $4 dollars an hour)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Dad commuted from there for, like, 30+ years
<NathanKell|WORK>
yep
<xShadowx>
i hereby retract any claims of love i have for the navy, navy sucks :(
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, ... small world.
<NathanKell|WORK>
indeed!
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, I love going to the Dutchess right off Route 1 near there
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ah yeah!
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, they're currently doing a massive amount of road work on 95 though in Stamford, so it's become an epic parking lot as of late, plus the usual backup for the Tappen Zee traffic
<Dasm>
ANOTHER AJ10 failure. :facepalm
<NCommander>
Dasm, make sure you research your engines
<NathanKell|WORK>
95 in the rush hour direction just isn't ever worth it
<Ezko_>
we have a lot of free parking next to train and metro stations in and around helsinki
<NathanKell|WORK>
happily the only times I drove it I was opposite the traffic
<Ezko_>
7 dollars per day sounds like a lot
<NathanKell|WORK>
would go up to New Haven a lot and then back, so opposite
<xShadowx>
so friend (whos in the navy but not deployed) gets to go visit an aircraft carrier, and the bastard wont lemme come :P
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, when I brought my BFF from Oregon out, we got the experience both THAT and LI traffic at rush hour
<NathanKell|WORK>
Oh jeez
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, he now knows why PDX/SEA traffic never phased me
<xShadowx>
so /hatefornavy :P
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, granted, SEA can be a fairly decent parking lot near the I-5/I-90 interchange where the express lanes branch off
* NCommander
doesn't know where Valve's corporate office is exactly but I know Seattle better than I care to admit
<xShadowx>
NCommander: thats what google maps is for ;p
<ProjectThoth>
One of the strangest things is listening to people on the internet talk about things that are fairly local, I have to say.
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, I've lived in so many places, my definition of local is weird
<NCommander>
9 times out of ten dealing with English speakers, I've been to their area so I know what it's like. The only major exception is Australia/New Zealand. Just haven't made it there yet
* NCommander
has driven all the way from Anchorage to just north of Mexico City
<NCommander>
bringing a car into Mexico is an interesting experience
* NCommander
actually has to admit I was rather underwhelmed with driving on the Autobahn
<NCommander>
Though I did find I can bring a ford focus to about 180 km/h before it tops out
<NCommander>
The rental company had issues with me. They weren't used to foriengers with the right paperwork to do that :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
NCommander: I've never not seen 405S a parking lot during any workday.
<NathanKell|WORK>
NCommander: Downtown Bellevue.
<ProjectThoth>
NCommander: What model year Focus?
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, ah, yeah that's a decent way to go around it, but I sometimes had to go into Seattle proper near the space needle
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, 2015
<NathanKell|WORK>
Hmm?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Sorry, I mean, Valve is downtown Bellevue, and going over the overpass of 405, S is never not a parking lot
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, I-5 can just stop north of Boeing Field
<NathanKell|WORK>
(we live a mile east of Valve, just over the highway)
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<ProjectThoth>
NCommander: Aw, darn, I own an '06, always wondered what the top speed was.
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, I'm currently drving a '04 Toyota RAV4 with Alaska license plates
* NCommander
notes he had a woman ask me how I drove from that large island up north, not realizing that Alaska is actually physically connected to the rest of the United States
<NCommander>
er, conencted to North America
<ProjectThoth>
NCommander: Hah!
<Maxsimal>
Pap: CC isn't liking this line inside a data node - techFactor = Max(.7, 1 - UnlockedTech().Count() /100) Any ideas? Using the tech count function from your comm sat contractt.
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, it was in Texas too to boot :(
<NCommander>
*American sterotypes :/*
<xShadowx>
try 0.7? (random guess)
<Maxsimal>
Ok
<ProjectThoth>
NCommander: You should have said you drove it up through Mexico.
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, hindsight being 20-20, I *really* should have.
<Pap>
Maxsimal: I have found in CC it is also better to do them as separate variables
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, I also saw a set of Hawaiin license plates on that drive
<ProjectThoth>
NCommander: But how tho?
<Pap>
Maxsimal: Something like techs = UnlockedTech().Count()/100
<ProjectThoth>
Probably, again, drove up through Mexico.
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, it's actually relatively easy to put a car on a cargo ship and ship it that way. I've looked at doing that before
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Ok, though I've already subdivided my function a lot ;)
<Pap>
Maxsimal: techFactor = Max(0.7, 1- @/techs)
<NCommander>
You can ship a car from Florida to Brazil for about $2k. Less if you can find RORO ship, or a shipping budy for the container.
<ProjectThoth>
NCommander: Stupid question, cars can fit inside a TEU?
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, TEU?
<NCommander>
Oh yes
<ProjectThoth>
Twenty-foot equivalent uit.
<NCommander>
Or mine does
<ProjectThoth>
*unit
<NCommander>
A lot of American cars won't :)
<NCommander>
But you could easily cram two RAV4s or similar in a TEU
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: just re-started the career. :P had to, because I couldn't get the First ComSat contract to appear.
<Ezko_>
ProjectThoth: you know there are different kinds of ford focuses
<Ezko_>
multiple engine options etc
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, I also note I drive a proper car, with a manual transmission
<ProjectThoth>
Ezko_: Oh, I know, but I figured the year was a good starting point.
<NCommander>
It's an incredibly effective anti-theft device in this country.
<ProjectThoth>
NCommander: Hah! I've been meaning to learn.
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, you're an Estados Unidosarian?
<ProjectThoth>
Yup.
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, manual transmissions are life
<NCommander>
And they're great making sure your car doesn't go on walkabout
<NCommander>
I can park in Harlem, and live in full confidence that my car ain't going anywhere
<ProjectThoth>
Also because I really want a vintage VW Beetle.
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<NCommander>
I want to drive teh Pan-AMerican Highway, from Prudhoe Bay Alaska to Tierra Del Fuego, Argentina
<NCommander>
in a VW Bus
<ProjectThoth>
Meh, "fried-out Kombi" works better in the song, I think.
<Ezko_>
a drive like that would be really cool
<Ezko_>
in theory it would be cool to drive from here to vladivostok too but in practice probably not
<NCommander>
Ezko_, it's not actualyl as difficult as you think
<Ezko_>
pan american could probably be nice even in practice :P
<Ezko_>
NCommander: mostly i'm thinking about the roads in siberia
<NCommander>
Ezko_, it's easier to use E-40, and stay in Southern Russia, crossing into Kakistan and such, then going into Mogolia and back up.
<ProjectThoth>
I'd love to just do a cross-country road trip.
<NCommander>
Pity its so hard to get a vechile into China
<Ezko_>
my sister took the trans-siberian to baikal and then a train from there to beijing through mongolia
<Ezko_>
that could be fun too but i think driving would be more my thing :P
<NCommander>
Ezko_, generally speaking, you'd need to fully own your vechile (no liens), your vechile green card, and for some countries, a Carnet de Passage
<NCommander>
Ezko_, I went from Mognila to Vietnam by rail.
<NCommander>
(Ulaambataar, Beijing, few days in Beijing, then to Naming, and then onto Hanoi)
<Ezko_>
driving to russia isn't that big of a problem, i have friends who have done it multiple times
<NCommander>
I got very sick in Vietnam, else I would have taken the train down to Ho Chi Mon, and then bus into Cambodia
<NCommander>
Instead, I cut that leg out of my trip, flew to Siem Reap, and then bussed into Thailand. That border crossing was special
<NCommander>
It's one of the only times where I've walked over an international border
<Ezko_>
i've been to 29 countries but never russia
<Ezko_>
:S
* NCommander
hasn't been to Russia either
<NCommander>
It's annoyingly difficult for an American to get a visa for Russia
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Did you re-download and update?
<NCommander>
Not quite as bad as it used to, but I've had the process described as the last frontier of the cold war
<Ezko_>
and the train from helsinki to st. petersburg goes on a track like 200m from me
<NCommander>
oooh, I loved Helsinki
<NCommander>
I'd love to go back to Finland
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: I made a new install, and simply replaced the entire RP-0 folder with the one from your branch
<Ezko_>
NCommander: i live here :P
<NCommander>
Helsinki probably is the nicest airport I've been to in Europe
<Pap>
Don't forget to do the same for the RO folder Hypergolic_Skunk
<Ezko_>
10km from the centre though
<Pap>
Be Back in a While
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: oh!
Pap is now known as Pap|Away
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
thanks for the tip :)
* NCommander
notes it's a toss between LIS and CDG for the crappiest airport I've been to in Europe
<Pap|Away>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Get the one that is Pap-ROupdates (or something similar
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
will do!
<Ezko_>
anyway the problem with going to russia for me is that you need a visa and that costs probably as much as the rest of the trip would cost
<Ezko_>
well not quite but as much as the train tickets to st. petersburg
<NCommander>
Ezko_, for Americans, the visa is $220 for a three year multi-entry visa
<Ezko_>
i think it's like around 100e for single visit for us or just under 200 for half year multi-entry
<ProjectThoth>
I wanna go to New Zealand.
<Ezko_>
me too
<NCommander>
Ezko_, standard $49 for a RUS single entry tourist visa for European nationals.
<NCommander>
Ezko_, maybe.
<Ezko_>
NCommander: yeah but you need to get invited for the visa to be approved so basically you need to go through a travel agency
<NCommander>
Ezko_, the most expensive country to get a visa for based on trading notes is Belarus.
<NCommander>
Ezko_, oh, they dropped that requirement for Americans.
<NCommander>
Forgot about that
<NCommander>
I had to deal with that bullshit for my first China visa
<NCommander>
Plus I needed a residency permit due to my lenght of stay exceeding 7 days
<NCommander>
Ugh
<NCommander>
Ezko_, from a friend of mine, the most expensive place he ever went was Belarus. Visa came out to be $490 dollars.
<NCommander>
Because American's can only do Visa-on-Arrival there, and VOA is twice as expensive as standard Belarusian visas
<Dasm>
!Tell Agathorn|Away It would be a neat feature to add explosions to failure modes.
<Qboid>
Dasm: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
* NCommander
has learned since that despite the official policy, the embassy in Lithuanian will issue a Class B tourist visa to Americans at something much more reasonable
<Ezko_>
NCommander: ugh
<NCommander>
Ezko_, American passports are great for 75% of the world, but the remaining %25 will bleed us dry.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Dasm: There already are.
<NCommander>
Ezko_, I've been tempted to try and do a trip to Iran. Despite the common belief, it's POSSIBLE though very difficult to visit Iran as an American.
<Ezko_>
NCommander: yeah finnish passport is one of the best ones for going around aswell
<NCommander>
Ezko_, (the hardest country in that region in the world is Saudi Arabia. There's no good way to get in)
<Ezko_>
basically only need visa for some old soviet countries
<NCommander>
Ezko_, yeah, I met a fin in Vietnam who was amused the American had to fork up a lot of money for a VIetnemese visa
<NCommander>
Ezko_, at least they made it very painless. By far the easiest visa I ever applied for
* NCommander
was in an out in an hour same day processing.
<Ezko_>
i've only been to two countries outside europe so far
<Dasm>
NathanKell|WORK: You weren't kidding about "GL getting orbit" I'm getting tons of AJ10 fails, Last mission LR81 fail.. and now a LR105 fail
<NCommander>
Ezko_, don't come to the United States, its a silly place.
<ProjectThoth>
I mean, back the 60s, you didn't need a visa to go to Vietnam from the US.
<Ezko_>
NCommander: i've been
<ProjectThoth>
/badjokes
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, I didn't need one for Iraq in 2011 :)
<NCommander>
Ezko_, :(
<NCommander>
Ezko_, how many people mistook you for Russian, or Canadian?
<Ezko_>
i'll probably visit the east coast at some point but i'm in no hurry :P
<Ezko_>
no one
<NCommander>
Ezko_, ... you sure you visited the United States?
<NCommander>
:)
<Ezko_>
yes
<NCommander>
And not say the United Mexican States?
<Ezko_>
we went to see a finnish comedian there :P
<ProjectThoth>
Why not go to Finland?
<NCommander>
Ezko_, heh. I've lived here for most of my life but I've tried to spend as much time not here as possible.
<NCommander>
Unfortunately, life shat on me about two years ago so I haven't been overseas in awhile. I was originally intending to emmigrate if we got a specific person as president
<Ezko_>
we flew to and from los angeles, drove around for 5 days and then stayed 2 days in los angeles
<Ezko_>
turns out there's not much to do in los angeles
* NCommander
snorts
<NCommander>
Ezko_, they also can't drive in LA
<Ezko_>
should have taken the car for an extra day :P
<Ezko_>
didn't seem like they could anywhere else on the way either
<NCommander>
Ezko_, well, it is California. Their license system basically consistences of putting money into a vending machine.
<Ezko_>
we drove la - palmdale - death valley - las vegas - hoover dam - grand canyon west - some small place on arizona/california border - march field air museum - la
<Ezko_>
spent two nights in las vegas
<Rokker>
MUSEUM
<Ezko_>
and went to see that finnish comedian there :P
<NCommander>
So in short, you went somewhere borning, hot, fake, interesting, deep, boring, long, and boring?
<NCommander>
:)
<Rokker>
Ezko_: shot the shooty shoots
<Rokker>
shoot
<Ezko_>
what
<NCommander>
Palmdale didn't have much there if memory serves
<Rokker>
Ezko_: did you shoot anything at the MG ranges
<Ezko_>
no
<Ezko_>
NCommander: blackbird air park or something
<Ezko_>
and a shuttle carrier and other planes
<NCommander>
Death Valley is hot, Las Vegas is filled with fake stuff, Hoover Dam is interesting, the Grand Canyon is deep, the border is empty, and the march field air museum has a long runway
<NCommander>
:)
<Rokker>
NCommander: um what the fuck
<Rokker>
NCommander: they have blackbirds and one of the 2 shuttle carrier craft
<Ezko_>
we just went there for the first night cause it was at a convenient distance from LA
<Rokker>
"didnt have much"
<Ezko_>
yeah
<Rokker>
gtfo
<Rokker>
and vegas is great
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<NCommander>
Rokker, can I come back now? :)
<Rokker>
machine gun ranges and beautiful sites
<Ezko_>
vegas could probably be fun if you had like 500 per night to spend
<Rokker>
sights*
<Ezko_>
A-12, SR-71 and D-21 or whatever the drone was next to each others at blackbird place
<NCommander>
Rokker, I might be getting my sites mixed up. I remember going to an air museum in that area that had very little.
<Ezko_>
in palmdale
<Rokker>
Ezko_: D-21 is right
<Ezko_>
though it was closed on the day we were there :(
<NCommander>
It was also in 2007.
<Rokker>
NCommander: nothing else in that area
<Ezko_>
but mostly it was just a place to stay for the night for us
<Ezko_>
then we noticed that there's a blackbird there
<Ezko_>
and then that there are some other planes too
<NCommander>
Rokker, huh. Might just be bad memory then. I've been to far too many places :/, I occassionally get them crossed.
<Rokker>
next closest air museum is an hour away, and thats edwards
<NCommander>
Rokker, apologizes
<NCommander>
*apologies
<Ezko_>
we looked at going to edwards but apparently you need to be a US citizen for that :P
<Rokker>
NCommander: pretty much every aerospace museum in cali is great and its my dream to visit em
<Rokker>
only good thing about cali actually
<NCommander>
Rokker, as long as I don't have to drive on I-5 to get to them.
<Ezko_>
the scenery was cool
<Ezko_>
since we dont' have that in europe :P
* NCommander
rather enjoyed driving US-101 from SF -> Washington
<Ezko_>
north europe at least
<Ezko_>
here we mostly have trees and lakes
<NCommander>
Ezko_, pity you didn't get to see I-19, the only interstate in America signed in metric with kilometerposts, and metric speed limits.
* NCommander
notes the American metric speed limit sign is *weird*
<Ezko_>
why does that exist?
<NCommander>
Ezko_, because the United States was actually going to switch to metric in the 70s when I-19 was built
<Ezko_>
ah
<NomalRaptor>
Is it in m/s?
<NCommander>
Obviously that didn't happen, but I-19 was built with metric signs in preperation of the switch.
<NCommander>
NomalRaptor, km/h :P
<NomalRaptor>
=(
<Ezko_>
so what's the speed limit
<NCommander>
Ezko_, 88 km/h :)
<NCommander>
Cause that's what 55 MPH becomes.
<NCommander>
(yes, they didn't round it.)
<Rokker>
remember what happened last time a north american country switched to metric?
<Rokker>
didnt end well
<NCommander>
Rokker, Canada?
<soundnfury>
NCommander: so, not 88 mph then :(
<Rokker>
NCommander: yes
<NCommander>
soundnfury, highest speed limit in the United States is 80 MPH
<NCommander>
Well, Montana technically did, because it didn't have speed limits until 2003
<Ezko_>
we only go to 120km/h here and only during the summer
<Ezko_>
and there's probably like 500km of motorway with even that :P
<NCommander>
Fastest in Mexico is 110 km/h
<NCommander>
KSP == teaching Americans that the metric system is NOT evil
<NCommander>
Rokker, right, we're smart enough to do unmanned metric screwups
<Bornholio>
the legal unit of measure in the US is SI and us unit outside of it are defined by law in SI units
<Bornholio>
an inch in the US is defined as 2.54cm :)
<NCommander>
Bornholio, that was due to the push for metrification in the United States. We could actually switch over easier than the two other countries that are !metric
<NCommander>
Because our laws are already codified in SI terms.
<Bornholio>
plus major industries already are metric in the US like Auto industry
<NCommander>
Most of I-95 and many side roads in Maine for instance are dual-signed in both imperal and metric.
<NCommander>
That being said, it would be nice if they believed in rounding
<Bornholio>
now the penny, that gets me rolling, ban that peice of crap
<NCommander>
Bornholio, Canada already did that :)
<ProjectThoth>
I already work in metric, I just don't have the ability to relate to it in the real world.
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, I have the opposite problem, I spent so much time out side the United States, I forget how to relate in Imperal. My phone shows temperature in centigrade, so people look at me funny when I say its 25 degrees out
<ProjectThoth>
NCommander: I have zero concept of what a kilogram feels like, but I can guess pounds pretty easily.
<Bornholio>
so halve it, a big guy is 100kg
<NCommander>
ProjectThoth, for quick and dirty, 2 pounds is a kilogram.
<NCommander>
... ninja'd
<ProjectThoth>
Bornholio: For you.
<NCommander>
What's funny is in the world of avaiation, imperal unites still are used world wide
<NCommander>
Such as knots, and flight level (which is feet above MSL)
<ProjectThoth>
(and the joy of nautical miles, to which all I know is that one nautical mile is 1,852 meters)
<egg>
(it depends, what about the UK admiralty nautical miles)
<NCommander>
egg, to be fair, the UK is the last people we should ask anything about measurement or demicial based systems
<NCommander>
MI5 caught a lot of german spies due to the failure to understand old pounds
<egg>
ProjectThoth: also, you're off by a factor of a thousand, it's 1852 m :D
<egg>
(thou shalt use neither . nor , for thousands sep)
* NCommander
expects if/after BrExit, there will be a big push to get rid of contential metric units :)
<egg>
there's a CGPM re-yelling that
egg is now known as egg|zzz|egg
<NCommander>
I need to take a shower and actually do work
<Ezko_>
i just realized i need to wake up in like 5,5h
<NCommander>
Ezko_, :(
<Ezko_>
4 hours of work in the morning/noon then like 9 hour break and back to work :P
<Bornholio>
i really need a good example of a part config that uses another mods part model and textures to work
<Bornholio>
everytime i try and use another moedl for an engine i either have stuck shrouds or tank butts or emmissives .sgh
<Bornholio>
model
<Pap|Away>
Bornholio: you need to do a mesh delete and a model delete
<Bornholio>
can you think of one that does that (using the same model as another part it is not replacing)
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<Maxsimal>
Pap : CC is driving me nots. One contract that I altered doesn't error but doesn't show up, another now has no errors besides a warning that the contract doesn't load.
<Maxsimal>
Ugh
<Pap|Away>
Maxsimal: There has to be something to the error
<Bornholio>
yeah not alone in frustration!
<Pap|Away>
What does the CC log say? It is in the CC folder in GameData
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
has anyone encountered the bug where KSC facilities become unclickable? any workaround/quick-help/fix known other than restarting KSP?
<soundnfury>
Hypergolic_Skunk: input locks?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
soundnfury: how do you mean?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap|Away: The CC folder in gamedata is *not* where the good stuff is, sadly
<NathanKell|WORK>
it's in KSP.log
<NathanKell|WORK>
only the tl;dr is in the per-contract log files, the real exception (or whatever else) is in ksp.log
<soundnfury>
open up the console (mod-f12?), find Input Locks
<soundnfury>
hit Clear Input Locks
<soundnfury>
see if that helps
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
soundnfury: <3 <3 <3
<NathanKell|WORK>
Maxsimal: search KSP.log for "SoundingRocketDifficult" and eventually you should find the actual info