<Bornholio>
very cool rokker my dad is a bridge engineer. he would scoff at the steel girders but will like the supports.
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<Rokker>
Bornholio: and a few hundred feet away from the start and end of the ramp are concrete murals one of the Wright's first flight and the other is the about Apollo 11
<NathanKell>
I just cleaned it out, sadly some went back like 2 months :]
<NathanKell>
I'm, uh, bad.
<Pap>
Alright, I just set it to be Low, should be much better now
<NathanKell>
\o/
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/vQABl
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master 6fd3d5f NathanKell: RD-253 gimbal: @PhineasFreak I notice the stock-cline RD-253 we have has 2-plane gimbal but this does not. For now I'm harmonizing this way, but we could also harmonize the other way. Thoughts? (It's the usual historical-accuracy-vs-flexibility dealie, IMO...)
<NathanKell>
<3
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<leudaimon>
\o/ NathanKell I totally support two-axis gimbal for the RD-253 :)
<SpecimenSpiff>
ANyone have suggestions for starting node sounding rocket for high? I've done wac-corporal, got to space. did bumper-wac, got to about 700k. stuck an xr-11 stage in the middle of bumper-wac, get to about 2m. Can 4m be done on this node?
<NathanKell|TwitchLoading>
Easily
<NathanKell|TwitchLoading>
4x WACs are a better bet for second stage than XLR11
<Bornholio>
yes but not worth it on its own
<NathanKell|TwitchLoading>
A-4, 4x WAC, 1x WAC
<NathanKell|TwitchLoading>
Spin up prior to A-4 burnout and start the WACs about a second before burnout
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<Bornholio>
rocket launch # two for new Hard career, bomb oklahoma for science
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<leudaimon>
Pap, I wonder what balance we should aim for, given this utilization thing. If we aim for balance at 100% (more or less what I intended initally), going for 200% might allow for too good stuff, especially now that cost is bugged
<Pap>
I agree with you leudaimon, I would think 100% would be the goal, but I just don't know. I am not a player that worries about min-maxing, I am playing for the fun / recreating missions, so I am a bad person to ask I think
<leudaimon>
I don't know exactly how utilization works, but I think the cap should be lower than 200%...
<Pap>
Bornholio: Did you add information to the Science Experiments document?
<Bornholio>
yes the cosmic ray science stuff
<Pap>
Dasm: Did you add information to the Science Experiments Google document?
<Pap>
OK, thought so, thanks
<Bornholio>
I designed and built said experiments for terrestrial use :)
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<Pap>
!tell lamont Thank you for PEG, this is awesome!
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
!tell Sarbian I know all of the work was yours, so thank you for PEG! /s
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<regex>
Thrust plate looks like a decent early heatshield.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
!tell lamont,sarbian the only issue I have with PEG is that as of a couple releases ago it stopped remembering settings at all, and always goes to 5/.75/55
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Rokker>
Pap: i hate to ask, but can you remind me how to install ur stuff again
<Pap>
Rokker: Now there is nothing special. As of last night, NathanKell|Twitch pushed it to the master RO and master RP-0, so get both of those Developmental repos and you are good to go
<Rokker>
thank god
<Rokker>
Pap: donkey shin, looking forward to starting a new career using ur tree
<Pap>
Good luck Rokker, I am having a good time with it!
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<Rokker>
Pap: yeah but ur biased
<Rokker>
so
<Pap>
Truth
<Pap>
If it really sucked thought, I would have just stopped coming around and slipped away into the night
<Rokker>
now
<Rokker>
time to wait 10 minutes for KSP to load
<Rokker>
only to get bored 20 minutes later after my 10th failure in a row
<Pap>
Rokker: too bad you don't have Maxsimal's Sounding Rocket contracts, they are awesome
<Rokker>
where do i get them
<Rokker>
just google that shit?
<Pap>
They are not fully completed yet
<Rokker>
0/10
<Pap>
I can send you what he has working, but they might have some bugs (haven't been tested a lot)
<Rokker>
nah
<Rokker>
ill wait
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<leudaimon>
hey NathanKell, have you talked to soundnfury and rsparkyc recently? are we still playing RIS? I've managed to mostly reach you guys...
<Dasm>
Alt+left click isn't working to copy things in the VAB... why?
<Dasm>
Wait, its working sometimes and sometimes it isn't
<Raidernick>
NathanKell, you there?
<Rokker>
im ashamed guys
<Rokker>
i made a stabilo as my first sounding rocket
<Rokker>
in this save
<lamont>
NathanKell: the biggest issue with PEG is that it isn’t really PEG
<Qboid>
lamont: Pap left a message for you in #RO [18.07.2017 03:37:24]: "Thank you for PEG, this is awesome!"
<Qboid>
lamont: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [18.07.2017 03:46:52]: "the only issue I have with PEG is that as of a couple releases ago it stopped remembering settings at all, and always goes to 5/.75/55"
<Qboid>
lamont: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [18.07.2017 03:47:03]: "otherwise it's amazing! <3"
<blowfish>
heh, looks like a launch escape system that ran away from its pod
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<Rokker>
blowfish: now the real design was made by a bunch of drunk romanians pretending to be a real aerospace company called ARCA
<Rokker>
and they thought it would work because of the pendulum fallacy
<Rokker>
but they accidentally ended up making a somewhat aerodynamically sound vehicle that didnt need fins
<blowfish>
the pendulum argument makes sense if your rockets have the structural strength of wet spaghetti
<blowfish>
but nothing to do with aerodynamics, yeah
<Rokker>
blowfish: yeah im aware, i use it for orbiting like large interplanetary transport ships
<Rokker>
with a lot of pieces
<Rokker>
but yeah, this is a good way to attain stability without fins
<blowfish>
what makes it stable anywhat? The fat bit at the bottom?
<blowfish>
plus heavy stuff (engines) at the top?
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<Rokker>
blowfish: yes
<Rokker>
blowfish: more bit at the bottom
<Rokker>
blowfish: anyways, i can beat 150 km for like 40 funds
<blowfish>
nice
<NathanKell>
o/
<NathanKell>
Pap: I thought that was for stock KSPish stuff?
<NathanKell>
(Angel's BARIS alike)
<Pap>
NathanKell: He is building it to work with stock, but based on the stuff that he is including, I don't see why we cannot fork off of it for our uses (obviosuly depending on what he does with it)
<NathanKell>
leudaimon|zZzZ: My understanding is rsparkyc is still busy. Dunno about soundnfury
<Pap>
It could be something very interesting and Angel does good work
<NathanKell>
Yep! Worth looking at as it firms up I think
<Pap>
Yeah, he was saying about 3 weeks or so for a full-featured release, so nothing for a while, but that screenshot was what I saw that got me excited
<Pap>
NathanKell: would you believe that problem after problem has put me at Pioneer 5 (except still the 0-1-2 Probe) with my final attempt to even come close to the Moon?
<NathanKell>
That...sounds very real :D
<Pap>
So with my PEG that I have set, after the Pitch Program, it sorta "falls" to get to the gravity turn, does that mean I need to set my Booster Pitch rate higher?
<NathanKell>
Um, does it say unguided gravity turn, or does it say stable PEG?
<NathanKell>
because if it's pitching down after the pitch program ends, that sounds like PEG engaging
<NathanKell>
and that means your ascent was too high
<Pap>
It said unguided gravity turn, then "catches" itself and says Stable PEG
<NathanKell>
and when it's in stable PEG, is it above or below the prograde marker?
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<Pap>
We are now at the top end of the marker, but still inside
<NathanKell>
If you're above the marker, then the pitch program was too severe
<NathanKell>
(well, if you're above the marker in the first ~20s after PEG start)
<NathanKell>
That said, to minimize grav+steering losses, it's possible you *want* to do that.
<NathanKell>
It's tricky :P
<Pap>
OK, I understand, thank you, this is a nice little LV with PEG :)
<NathanKell>
Weird, I wouldn't think 4m45s would be enough time to get to orbital alt
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] PhineasFreak opened pull request #1721: [Bug Fix] Squad wheels maximum speed (master...RO-Squad-Wheels-Updates) https://git.io/vQAXK
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<KevinStarwaster>
!tell lamont "coasting to circularization burn" <--- on a sub-orbital failed injection burn... :)
<Qboid>
KevinStarwaster: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Probus>
How quickly after launch does a real rocket start it's gravity turn?
<Theysen>
Probus, what rocket? It's too specific most of the times
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<Probus>
Theysen, You know how we default to 100 m/s (sometimes 50 m/s) or 1000 m. Is that close? Specifically the Titan II.
<Theysen>
TWR of around 100m/s nudge it over to 85
<Theysen>
TWR of around 1.2
<Theysen>
Higher needs adjustment, also if your booster burnout TWR gets insanely high I'd turn earlier
<Theysen>
but for general , yes
<Probus>
What about something like a Falcon 9?
<Probus>
(just curious)
<Theysen>
IIRC it has a very 1.2ish TWR off the pad
<Theysen>
how far it follows prograde through the atmo I don't know - because of the rtls and all
<Probus>
I bet its gravity turn is pretty steep for returning to Kennedy.
<Theysen>
and the upper is so darn powerful too
<Theysen>
Hypergolic_Skunk, yes have the same launchpad bug now too with a new career. Was there a fix?
<Theysen>
worked the second time I clicked it.. nvm then ( just gonna cheat back my 15k funds)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
not really a fix. despite the message in the Engineer's Report, I was able to launch it anyway
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<Theysen>
When you launch straight up on KSC and go very high > 27.5Mm you get every biome except tropics and poles, for those who don't want to spend long times warping around LEO for science grind
<Starwaster>
anyone noticed problems stabilizing propellant on craft where the engine has builtin tanks and the tanks are empty?
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<Pap>
o/
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<Sarbian>
NathanKell|WORK: that may be of interest ^^^^
<Sarbian>
(the whole video is full of great advices)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NathanKell|WORK: if only I had known the LR105 to have such a long burn-time... :P
<Rokker>
Hypergolic_Skunk: why the hell did you think we were suggesting it
<Rokker>
Hypergolic_Skunk: it was the sustainer engine for the atlas for a reason
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Rokker: in my head, Atlas is a modern rocket of the 90s. and most importantly: the only LR105 in my install was the hideously fat one :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
what I mean by that is that I don't know all launch vehicles of the US by heart.
<Rokker>
Hypergolic_Skunk: "90s"
<Rokker>
get away from me
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:D
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I asked you for documentaries
<Rokker>
dont talk to me or my son ever again
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
if you don't help educating people, you can't complain when they're ignorant :D
<Rokker>
Hypergolic_Skunk: there arent enough documentaries out there that i know of that go into any kind of depth
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
a shame
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: there is a halfway decent short info video on Atlas recently posted in the last couple of months by Scott Manley
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hey Pap
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but that's only Atlas
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
what about Able-whatsthename, Mercury, Gemini, etc?
<Pap>
oh, you want more info on things? Yeah, unfortunately, that doesn't exist (from what I can find)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:'(
<Pap>
Actaully, wait...
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
there's a 40m-video-compilation of rocket crashes and explosions, but that's not quite the same thing :p
<Bornholio>
google wants you to watch flate earth and moon hoax videos why do you want those things
<regex>
Sarbian, let me guess, that's used all over KSP?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: garbage! give me a break :P
<Sarbian>
not all over, but used. And I am not surprised as this one is quite tricky
<Bornholio>
scott manley was loving on principia in that video
<egg>
he's not using it though :-p
<regex>
Scott's pretty picky about things having bugs.
<regex>
not that Principia is buggy, just that I recall him complaining about RO in general.
<Maxsimal>
Tbh it's more that we're very NOT picky about having bugs :P Most users are less tolerant than Scott.
<egg>
yeah
<regex>
Right, but a lot of us a modders and just understand that modding a game brings bugs.
<Maxsimal>
Oh sure. I'm just saying, we can't judge by our own standards.
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<regex>
vOv
<egg>
just understand that modding a game brings bugs. <<< defeatism! :-p
<egg>
something something product eggscellence
<regex>
lol
<NomalRaptor>
If Principia suddenly gets kubernets as a dependency…
<regex>
no
<regex>
just don't
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Half the stuff Scott thought was bugs was him not RTFMing tho :P
<regex>
lol
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<egg>
Bornholio: nice, mentioning us for axial tilt
<egg>
NathanKell|AWAY: speaking of which, Cayley will come out on the new moon
<egg>
need to get a journal going
<regex>
is there a changelog available at the moment egg?
<Bornholio>
the tilt does weird a lot of people out.
<egg>
Bornholio: justifiably, Saturn with its satellite out of the plane of its rings looks awful
<egg>
satelliteS
<egg>
regex: not yet; mostly fixing quite a bunch of bugs that were one bug that was KSP changing its mind about where it's off-by-one-frame (that affects Sarbian too, explains why docking autopilot is broken :-p), and trajectory of the selected vessel in the tracking station
<regex>
Gotcha
<egg>
a colour change on a navball for better readability
<Maxsimal>
Pap: So you use this spreadsheet to automatically create MM patches?
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<Maxsimal>
Pap: I'm guessing i'll add a single column with comma seperated tags that we'll eventually use to add the part tags for integration multipliers.
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<Raidernick>
so Pap how goes checking through my 511 parts lol
<Raidernick>
i'd be willing to bet not even half of them are rp0 supported
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, when you get a chance can you help me with a heatshield config
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<NathanKell|WORK>
Raidernick: whatcha need?
<Raidernick>
i have a heatshield using ablator twice as fast as it should be
<Raidernick>
i'm not really familar with the aprtmodule
<Raidernick>
part*
<Raidernick>
so i don't know how to fix it
<Raidernick>
i'm sure you know what value to change immediately
<NathanKell|WORK>
You can try increasing pyrolysis loss flux
<NathanKell|WORK>
that would be your best bet
<NathanKell|WORK>
they're finicky tho
<NathanKell|WORK>
it's not something simple like doubling it
<Raidernick>
before i change it can i pastebin you the config?
<Raidernick>
i don't want to screw it up worse
<NathanKell|WORK>
increase it by, say, 1.5x and then test it
<NathanKell|WORK>
see what that does
<Raidernick>
ok
<Raidernick>
i see a pyrolysis loss factor
<Raidernick>
not flux
<NathanKell|WORK>
yeah, factor
<NathanKell|WORK>
sorry
<Raidernick>
ok loading game
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I am trying to do the 'First Communications Satellite' contract, and one of the requirements is: 'Have a ComSatBus of at least 314 units' - what does that mean? what kind of units?
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<NathanKell|WORK>
Hypergolic_Skunk: use a tank of type Fuselage (or SM if you've unclocked that). Add 314 liters of ComSatbus
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:D
<Bornholio>
like 314 units of htp as fuel, only its a ballast amterial
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: I am inclined to believe you :D
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but yeah, I'll try NK's thing first
<Bornholio>
It is moderately bulky, I find it easy to do both comsat and weathersat in the same mission, make a tank for each so its easy to control it later when you repeat those missions
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
is that 'comsat' resource meant to represent a satellite's RCS for its life-time?
<egg>
"litres of comsatbus" Ꙩ_ꙩ
<NathanKell|WORK>
no, it's meant to represent the electronics
<NathanKell|WORK>
the 'mission payload'
* egg
pours an AstroBus on NathanKell|WORK
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but it has avionics, an antenna, a battery, RCS fuel, solar panels... what else would a comsat need?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
found the ComSat resource, btw... luckily it's not heavy
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yes, into which you can stick ComSatBus
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, it definitely works better
<egg>
>_>
<Raidernick>
but i'd like it to use it slower still
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NathanKell|WORK: yeah, thinking about it, it makes sense.
<Raidernick>
should i increase that number more
<Raidernick>
or change something else?
<Pap>
Maxsimal: Yes, the spreadsheet creates all the MM configs I need for the tech tree
<Pap>
Raidernick: I have not started i yet
<egg>
NathanKell|WORK: but that bus part is a specific bus, much like an engine is a specific engine, what is that thing that you change by pouring in more comsatbus
<egg>
also does RO have a catbus
<Probus>
Has anyone tried CobaltWolf's BDB parts pack with RO yet?
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master 8b70716 raidernick: RN fix craft files for the mass and fuel overhaul previously merged...
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Gotcha. I'll make a copy and start adding the tags then.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Egg does raise a question though. For clarity maybe we rename it to CommsPayload and WeatherPayload?
<egg>
yeah, otherwise it really sounds to me like you're pouring a few litres of RocketEngine into an NK-33 :-p
<NathanKell|WORK>
We have to be careful though, because if we make that change everyone needs to manually update their saves
<Maxsimal>
NathanKell: Do you think it might be worthwhile to add a tank type exclusively for these payload resources, if you're going to change that?
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<Pap>
Maxsimal: Adding a new tank type is not going to work very well, there are a lot of parts configured already that have tank room for ComSat and Fuel, Batteries, etc, a new tank is more complex
<Pap>
The whole point of these resources was to force satellite sizes and weights to be larger. Otherwise, a player can simply launch a probe core with an antenna using a Vanguard sized rocket for everything and lose that differentiation
<NathanKell|WORK>
Especially since you should be able to add them to cores
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Ok true - though at least in the case of batteries, there's also a unique tank just for them. Thought it might be a nice touch.
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: I would be ok with changing the name. Do Resorces break if they have spaces in them?
<Maxsimal>
Pap: And yeah I know that - I suggested them. :P
<Pap>
Maxsimal: yes, that is true, but the Procedural Battery does not make a lot of sense with RF and RO
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Many things break if they have spaces in them
<Pap>
Maxsimal: :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Please don't :]
<Pap>
I willn't
<Pap>
^^^ why isn't that a real contraction?
<Bornholio>
you gave birth to it
<Maxsimal>
Pap: You know you can make add EC to a pressurized tank too, in RO, so it works just like a proc battery then?
<Pap>
Maxsimal: Correct, that i why I am saying the the Procedural Battery is a part that is not needed any longer
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: Who was asking about SSTU and working on it?
<Pap>
Was it Theysen?
<soundnfury>
ooh, thunder.
<blowfish>
resources have a displayName, I think you should be able to put spaces in that
* soundnfury
has had a lot of thunderstorms this summer
<blowfish>
the displayName may not be used everywhere though, not sure
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<Bornholio>
how do you move a rocket to a diferrent site
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: yes
<Pap>
Users should be able to figure out CommsPayload and WeatherPayload
<NathanKell|WORK>
Bornholio: you don't
<Maxsimal>
Bornholio: Launch it, go to tracking station while it's still on the ground, switch KSC sites, fly it again and recover it to VAB through the KCT menu
<NathanKell|WORK>
soundnfury: leudaimon was asking yesterday about RIS, and continuing it, since he's almost caught up
<NathanKell|WORK>
Maxsimal: Filthy cheater :P
<Maxsimal>
NathanKell: Extra-large DHL package.
<soundnfury>
NathanKell|WORK: yes, I saw he was catching up
<soundnfury>
I actually played a few days of mine recently too
<NathanKell|WORK>
\o/
<soundnfury>
but atm I believe the back-marker is rsparkyc, who has been rather busy moving and stuff iirc
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yeah
<Maxsimal>
Drat, I'm almost caught up to NathanKell's RIS videos, taking forever though :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
is there a way to change the amount of zoom I can apply in the VAB? since 1.2.2 it seems like I can only get so near to the center of the VAB.
<Raidernick>
Hypergolic_Skunk, 3d mouse
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Raidernick: wat :D
<Raidernick>
it's a mouse that lets you move on all axis
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<Raidernick>
generally it's used for cad modeling and such
<Raidernick>
but ksp supports it
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ooooooor ... there may simply be a value in a config file somewhere regulating how far to the center of the VAB one can get with the mouse-wheel
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
^
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
because it definitely changed from 1.1.3 to 1.2.2
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<gazpachian>
skunk, just import the craft into the SPH then, make your changes and port it back!
<gazpachian>
Not the smoothest of things, but quicker and cheaper than a niche peripheral
<Raidernick>
gazpachian, it's not quicker if you already have the device
<Raidernick>
maybe he has it
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I don't want to have to switch to the SPH or buy a 3D mouse to do in the VAB what I could do in every version before 1.2.2 oO
<gazpachian>
if his response is "wat" he probably doesn't.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
imagine the fun of having to unload and reload and unload and reload a 100-part vessel in RO/RSS just to 'get a little bit closer'
<gazpachian>
oh, I can.
<gazpachian>
not very fun.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
a quicker workaround is to physically move the entire craft closer to the camera
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but come on... seriously
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
why limit the zoom in VAB?
<Raidernick>
to annoy you?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
that was my first assumption :P
Hohman has joined #RO
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: there is also the option to use the WASD Camera mod
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Pap: thanks. :)
<egg>
NathanKell|WORK: hm, I might be misreading the UI's pink light; it's controllable but through ModuleSPU delaying things, which means the RTLocks are in place (and make the light pink)
<egg>
also, RT is commendably well-commented
<Maxsimal>
They probably limited zoom because they didn't want people having their near-clip plane inside the rocket as often. If I need to find something in my rocket though, I just tilt the camera to face directly down so I can be inside it.