<ProjectThoth>
Like, if you throttled the engines like that... wouldn't it keep going straight?
<ProjectThoth>
There's no unbalanced vectors.
<ProjectThoth>
Unless the thrust vector is angled in some weird way because aerospike.
<NathanKell>
eh? Looks like it should work fine
<NathanKell>
what am I missing
<NathanKell>
Ah, roll, yeah
<NathanKell>
was looking at P/Y
<NathanKell>
Yes, unless they get some reshaping out of the spike, it's weird
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] smo351 opened pull request #1734: Support for p5 truss piece (master...CxAerospace_StationParts_p5Truss) https://git.io/v7ITl
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<ProjectThoth>
Rokker: What do you think?
<Bornholio>
how are they expecting to cool a full ramp. I can see the roll, if they do the gimbals on those engines
<Rokker>
ProjectThoth: i think ur cancer
<ProjectThoth>
Rokker: Cylindrical SSTO over conic?
<ProjectThoth>
It'd be easier to build.
<Rokker>
ProjectThoth: i think ur cancer
<ProjectThoth>
Rokker: I just wanna know. :(
<Rokker>
ProjectThoth: cylindrical
<Bornholio>
rokker you are so nice .... and mean
<Rokker>
Bornholio: its how i show my affection for ProjectThoth
<ProjectThoth>
Bornholio: I like him.
<ProjectThoth>
Rokker: Stout or long? I'd like to keep the aspect ratio lower than 10, I think that's doable.
<Rokker>
ProjectThoth: iunno
<ProjectThoth>
Rokker: Yeah, the preliminary design is like 778 tons wet.
<Rokker>
ProjectThoth: the less frontal surface area the better i think
<ProjectThoth>
Rokker: Only issue is sidewall heating on reentry... but retro should take care of that.
<Bornholio>
Dropped them into biomes not over biomes.
<Bornholio>
its assign collect science to 0 button, push button profit
<NathanKell>
OHHH
<NathanKell>
Smrt!
<NathanKell>
:)
<NathanKell>
Man you minmax way better than I :P
<Bornholio>
you grind sats like coffee beans, i get bored of those things and do silly things instead
<Bornholio>
note to self, X-1 cockpit is NOT orbital rated
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<Raidernick>
NathanKell, you around?
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<acharles>
Raidernick: Do you maintain the test flight configs for your parts, by chance?
<Raidernick>
i dont' like testflight
<Raidernick>
so i don't use it
<Raidernick>
so nope
<acharles>
Ah
<acharles>
I guess that would explain it.
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<smartdummies>
I seem to be having an issue with the probe core procedural avionics. When selecting the stability config to allow a science container upon launch it does not include the science container so I cannot transfer science results to it. Am I missing something?
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<NathanKell>
Rokker: You around?
<Rokker>
NathanKell: im a square
<NathanKell>
Gimme some good numbers on LR87-AJ-9
<NathanKell>
I have learned a healthy distrust for b143numbers
<Rokker>
NathanKell: 2 9 103 9532
<NathanKell>
...
<Rokker>
NathanKell: gimme a mo
<NathanKell>
Thanks. Ed Kyle's numbers on the Titan baseball cards aren't making sense either
<NathanKell>
He's got very bad performance listed for 3C's 87s, rather worse than 3A's. Weird.
<Rokker>
NathanKell: what numbers are we looking for
<NathanKell>
...oh, because he's just using 11 performance.
<NathanKell>
>.>
<NathanKell>
b14nums >.>
<Rokker>
NathanKell: i also learned that im probably distantly related to to someone who is largely responsible for the success of NAA post-depression
<NathanKell>
coolz!
<Rokker>
during this line of questioning
<Rokker>
NathanKell: very distant
<Rokker>
but the kindelberger and gindelberger line are rare
<Rokker>
so
<Rokker>
we crossed over at some point
<Rokker>
NathanKell: and he was the guy who was president of NAA during and post depression and hired a fuckton of researchers and stuff
<NathanKell>
"Dutch" Kindelberger, yeah
<Rokker>
yep
<Rokker>
NathanKell: i was flipping through my engine history book with occaissionally lists engine numbers and came across his name
<NathanKell>
:)
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<NathanKell>
Ah, one other question. Do you have data on the -3's O/F ratio?
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<NathanKell>
ah nm I can calc from loadings
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<Rokker>
NathanKell: wait...
<Rokker>
... wtf astronautix
<NathanKell>
Calc'd it from the NASA LV handbook
<NathanKell>
2.25
<Rokker>
NathanKell: astronautix says the IIIC used an 11
<NathanKell>
Wiki claimed 1.91, which was clearly bunk; someone must have applied -5's MR to -3.
* NathanKell
imagines kerolox Titan IIIs
<NathanKell>
<3
<ProjectThoth>
NathanKell: A happy thought, innit?
<NathanKell>
This was all to try to figure out -9's performance on kerolox, yeah
<NathanKell>
looks like 266/305 with only 13% reduced thrust due to lower mass flux
<ProjectThoth>
Not bad.
<NathanKell>
And the 91-9 gets 325.5s
<acharles>
NathanKell: I noticed that RN’s RD-107/8 and the supporting vernier engines aren’t configured properly for the new tech tree.
<acharles>
Seemingly because they actually have verniers as separate engines and therefore, don’t share the same config as the other engines, which gimbal instead.
<acharles>
I think one of the issues is that the new tree doesn’t update the techs required for the various engine configs, but I’m not entirely sure.
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so, uhm, Rokker
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it seems like NASA has heard my unspoken prayers for footage
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NK also gave me an extra part from some other part-pack, for the LR105
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but I don't remember the name :(
<Bornholio>
ok time to load and load and load is that on the craft?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
what? :D
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yes, the LR105 is on the craft, several times
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bluedog
<Bornholio>
if you have however you installed it i can just do the same
<Bornholio>
ok
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I am not sure whether this craft is the original one, prior to my changes recommended by NK, though
<Bornholio>
i'll fly it in ten or so .sigh
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
there's a mirrored science-part which was clipping which I repositioned without clipping, and relaunched the vehicle. then, when I restart KSP and switch to the vehicle in interplanetary space, the kraken strikes
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
thanks Bornholio, very much appreciated
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
none of this is your or anyone's fault, but if this cannot be fixed, I am done with KSP
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: are you on the RO Discord?
<Bornholio>
not right now
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah. could have answered any questions in the voicechat :P
<Bornholio>
darn it has locked part :(, must be something else included
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
let me load it up
<Bornholio>
KzprocFairingCnegg and KW.PF.Interstage.123
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ah, KW Rocketry
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
my bad :(
<Bornholio>
k
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
didn't mean to waste 10 mins of your life :)
<Bornholio>
just 11 minutes of watching videos
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
oh no
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I resized the structural girder that holds the solar panels - with TweakScale. could this be a TweakScale bug?
<Bornholio>
less likely for a girder but possible
* xShadowx
scrolls up to look for a log file
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
xShadowx: this would show in a log file?
<Bornholio>
ok i don't see the KZprocFairingConegg in KW's git, is it in another mod?
<xShadowx>
thats PF
<Bornholio>
wonder why it errored for me
<xShadowx>
Hypergolic_Skunk: dunno, i just always check logs first ;p
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
my interstage fairings are 'Soyuz (Gamma) Procedural'
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
sorry Bornholio, I didn't think they'd cause a problem :(
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
let me just put normal fairings on there, and re-send you the craft file, if that's okay with you
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<Bornholio>
no they shouldn't but wondering why they would myself. sure. just started loading again but a craft can be dropped
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Payload Fairing Conic (White) should be safe?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
there are also Interstage Fairings, but they do not eject visually, and do not stage
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I will test the craft without a tweakscaled girder now
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
your help is so very much appreciated. I love KSP RO/RP0 to bits, but seeing the work of weeks go down the drain is just so crushing
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it's actually not rescaled...
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<Bornholio>
up to 50k patshes again ... still no luck with the fairing i'll try your other craft next
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ok
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I still see 'clipping' in the Alt-F12 Console menu
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
xShadowx: would this be logged?
<schnobs>
3h43min to minmus and back.
<xShadowx>
whats a minmus
<schnobs>
xShadowx: a stock thing.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
xShadowx: would you need the output_log.txt from the KSP_x64_Data folder?
<xShadowx>
Hypergolic_Skunk: or ksp.log, i think shows all the same stuff now, plus looks cleaner
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I so hope we can find something. something that I'm doing wrong, so I can refrain from doing it in the future :3
<xShadowx>
dang a lot of texture not found stuff :|
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I installed a rather old texture-pack. have a hundred or two different textures available.
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<Bornholio>
fasa has lots of texture crap un fixed, i'm going to manually remove this fairing and try loading that
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: for the last craft file I sent you I took out all the fairings and replaced them with the standard Procedural Fairings (Conic)
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
not sure why that's bugging out for you :/
<Bornholio>
and i have those...
<Bornholio>
is it only top stage that is in space bugging?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yes
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
although i have not tried loading it with its second stage, only when everything was staged already
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so I assumed there's something wrong with the top stage
<xShadowx>
i see no errors related to cliping, but plenty of error spam for other stuff o.o
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
xShadowx: I saw this: "[RealSolarSystem]: Watchdog: Setting camera Camera ScaledSpace near clip to 7 so camera now has 7"
<Bornholio>
yeah thats why i was asking about kopernicus getting messed with
<xShadowx>
https://pastebin.com/gmTFczvf just the error portion ;p everythin from mission tech nodes, textures, models, bad patches, eek
<xShadowx>
missing*
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
not sure what I can do about that. I can certainly remove all those textures.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but about EVE/RSSVE... well, it supposedly is ready for 1.2.2, iirc
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
is it a reasonable hope that Take Two will make RO/RSS/RP-0 (or something similar) a DLC, so it'll be official and supported and all?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
because one cannot expect you guys to spend all your free time bugfixing stuff without pay
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<xShadowx>
so.......you want T2 to take 8383447 mods people made, tell them they can no longer have that mod distributed, and sell a DLC for $?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
no
<xShadowx>
thats whatd happen ;p
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
just the framework of the Real Solar System, as well as RO physics
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
as a sort of baseline
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
which would also make T2 make Earth and other bodies prettier
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
8k resolution textures of Earth look nice from space, but not from nearby. which T2 would probably do something about, although I am talking out of my butt and have no clue what they would do :P
<xShadowx>
player made mods arent often absorbed into a game, and i cant think of any giant pack like RO made by so many, license issues would be nightmare ish, and many different code styles
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
but you agree that RSS would be a logic extension of KSP?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
*logical
<xShadowx>
not so much, if anything id incorporate kopernicus basicly, to me ksp should just be framework, not data (leave planets, parts, etc to mods)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yeah, that makes more sense :)
<xShadowx>
contracts and resources for example, the framework is there, but its up to configs to set them up and apply to the game
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: any success loading the craft? :)
<Starwaster>
Does anyone here regularly use Procedural Parts SRBs with RO?
<Bornholio>
yes and a weird fairing float issue
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
no. every second time I use them they bug out in the VAB and produce infinite cost
<Bornholio>
I may have caused it but some payload fairing conic are floating away from the craft but attached
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
hm
<Bornholio>
pretty sure thats the problem, i didn't touch and conic fairings only egg
<Bornholio>
any
<Bornholio>
sorry egg
<egg|zzz|egg>
moo
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
^
<egg|zzz|egg>
but you pinged me with float before anyway
<Bornholio>
thats not my fault you ping on float :P
* xShadowx
is starting to think pings on everything
<Bornholio>
soi'm deffinetly duplicating problems with teh craft
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: pity you're not streaming :)
<Starwaster>
infinite cost?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yes, Starwaster. playing around with the size and thrust of the Proc. SRB can end in the VAB showing 'Cost: inf'
<Starwaster>
has that ever been reported? This is the first time I've heard about it :(
<Starwaster>
of course it's only recently become my business :(
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it's been months since I tried it the last time. maybe it has been fixed, I don't know.
<Starwaster>
so I wonder if anyone would get mad if I totally revamped how PSRB even calculates its thrust, which is horribly unrealistic to begin with
<Bornholio>
those things have not properly detached
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: hm, that's weird. the payload fairing adapter should attach directly to the 1kN-thruster
<Bornholio>
i detached it and it did not fully release
<Bornholio>
just kind of sits sideways
<Bornholio>
oh now it went, still have these fairings floting
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
can you make another screenshot?
<Bornholio>
going away to tracking station and back, yes
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
also, do you folks agree that RO/RSS/RP-0 can now be installed via CKAN successfully? if so, maybe there's a chance I have an off-version required mod somewhere that is acting up and making an entirely new install helps... who knows
<Bornholio>
they went way, https://imgur.com/a/YhUuA. I have gone through 6 RO installs, it helps. Though i prefer installing the individual requirements on CKAN and master RO/RP-0
<Bornholio>
RSS/EVE/Scattere i've never got running fully CKAN, though now i know why, need old version of scatterer
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: isn't she a beauty? :') :pp
<Bornholio>
I'll time warp and stuff to see if i can mess this thing up. very balanced
<Bornholio>
needs a teeny bit more avionics on sep
<Bornholio>
Hypergolic_skunk moving solar panels to surface on proc avionics tank fixed it, i'd say the problem is that
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: :O
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I will give it a shot right away
<Bornholio>
the girder surface is below the model surface
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
argggh! I used to use Proc. Structual Parts for a probe's body, and only recently came up with using girders...
<Bornholio>
I'll hunt down where the girder is (tink vens) and put an issue on it, i'll send the issue link for you to put a comment on
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
awesome :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
how long have you been playing/modding KSP, btw?
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<Bornholio>
Hypergolic_skunk since just before christmas
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
Bornholio: oh wow.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
launching the amended Interplanetary Probe A-1 now :)
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<Theysen>
o/
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
\o
<Bornholio>
.highFives_ALL
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
TestFlight threw a wrench into the test :/
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<Theysen>
Hypergolic_Skunk, you know that one video where they throw a brick into a washing machine?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
maybe. but why not watch it again? :)
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<Theysen>
comment at manleys video of the electron rocket.. "Does it mean that if you attach the Electron to the Russian Proton it'll make hydrogen?" Jeez
<Bornholio>
sounds logical to me
<Theysen>
right?!
<Bornholio>
when working in cosmic ray land, it always annoyed me that they were beta particles and alpha particles not electroncs and helium nuclei
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<egg|zzz|egg>
!u
<Qboid>
U+FEFF ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE ()
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<Bornholio>
whats the method for quickly eliminating non-RP-0 parts from loading?
<gazpachian>
crate a folder called NoNonRP0 in gamedata
<Bornholio>
Thanks gaz
<gazpachian>
bear in mind that doesn't prevent them from loading their assets
<gazpachian>
so manual cleanup is still required if you're looking to save memory
<Bornholio>
don't want to be making issues on parts that i forget to check are RP-0 or not
<gazpachian>
I keep telling myself that some day I'll take on the task of configuring most SXT and VSR parts so that a clean RP-0 install isn't like 40% non-compatible trash
<gazpachian>
But then I realise why it hasn't been done yet
<gazpachian>
cause that is going to be a lot of work.
<Bornholio>
ha yeah but its work :P
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<NathanKell>
o/
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<egg>
o/ NathanKell
<egg>
NathanKell: if you're interested I have a patch to RSSTimeFormatter that implements KSP-RO/RSSTimeFormatter#2 (and sets the default to ISO 8601 in the absence of config)
<Qboid>
[#2] title: Configurable date format | As discussed on IRC, this mod uses the standard date formatting libraries with (implicitly) the `CurrentCulture`, but sadly Unity overwrites the `CurrentCulture` so that this does not properly get localized for those of us who cannot make sense of month/day/year and the like.... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RSSTimeFormatter/issues/2
<egg>
more after nomz
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<NathanKell>
!tell blowfish* for the engine issue, I have the following suggestions that should bandaid it if it's our fault.
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell>
!tell blowfish* 1. On line 166 of SolverRF, change `chamberTemp = Math.Max(partTemperature, chamberTemp * declinePow);` to `chamberTemp = Math.Max(Math.Min(1000d, partTemperature), chamberTemp * declinePow);`
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell>
!tell blowfish* 2. In ModuleEnginesRF, on line 495, change it to just `heatProduction = 0f`
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<egg>
NathanKell: back
<NathanKell>
egg!
<Bornholio>
egg not even the us military uses that stupid method for time/date
<NathanKell>
egg: PR sounds good
<ProjectThoth>
I prefer to use DD/HH/YYYY/MM/MM for the date/time.
<ProjectThoth>
See, right now it's 23/16/2017/07/44. Makes perfect sense!
<NathanKell>
Rokker: Got any cites for LR87-LH2 performance?
<Rokker>
NathanKell: afaict the wikipedia numbers are fairly accurate
<NathanKell>
451s!?
<NathanKell>
That's waaay more than anything else I've seen
<ProjectThoth>
ferram4: Mass, keep the TWR roughly similar.
<Rokker>
ferram4: lets call up the author and find out
<ferram4>
No, we're not trying to make it work.
<ferram4>
We're trying to make it match the given specs.
<Rokker>
ProjectThoth: get out
<ferram4>
That conflict
<ProjectThoth>
Rokker: why tho
<Rokker>
ferram4: well, you know what they say
<Rokker>
ferram4: a picture is worth a thousand words
<Rokker>
and that picture is saying volume
<ferram4>
SO volume then.
<ferram4>
Well, they have difficulty with fitting the Agena.
<ProjectThoth>
But volume's too fluffy. :/
<ferram4>
ProjectThoth, also, if we worked with keep TWR constant for the 2nd stage, the entire thing won't take off.
<ferram4>
It'll be too heavy.
<ProjectThoth>
ferram4: Oh, lame.
<Rokker>
ferram4: idk, 2 LR87-7s is a lot of thrust
<ferram4>
It's a good amount of thrust, but I think Titan II Gemini still only had a 1.2 TWR at liftoff and adding 50% more mass to the second stage might bring that down too much.
<Rokker>
ferram4: yeah but ur missing the part where he says the first stage has twice as many engines
<ferram4>
Also, probably a larger interstage because I doubt that second stage would work as a 3.05m diameter stage.
<ProjectThoth>
Rokker: Wasn't that Barbarian?
<Rokker>
ProjectThoth: apparently not
<ferram4>
I've honestly been confused about whether 1x LR-87 has 2x nozzles or not. It always seems inconsistent.
<ferram4>
And don't they have individual pumps anyway?
<acharles>
NathanKell|Twitch: Hi, did you see my message about the RN R7 engines? No rush, just curious if you can tell me enough so I can try to fix it myself.
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
acharles: Ah I missed that I think
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Sigma88: awesome you found it!
<Sigma88>
NathanKell|Twitch: yes I just went through all planets and printed the name of the pqs shader
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<NathanKell>
ah :]
<acharles>
I noticed that RN’s RD-107/8 and the supporting vernier engines aren’t configured properly for the new tech tree.
<acharles>
Seemingly because they actually have verniers as separate engines and therefore, don’t share the same config as the other engines, which gimbal instead.
<acharles>
I think one of the issues is that the new tree doesn’t update the techs required for the various engine configs, but I’m not entirely sure.
<NathanKell>
acharles: The other engines also implement verniers. The difference I guess is RN's verniers are separate *parts*
<NathanKell>
Most RD-107/8 models now have the verniers as part of the model, as a second engine (RealEngines) or using code I added in 1.2 to support verniers natively (SSTU)
<NathanKell>
And the tree does indeed update that stuff, see TREE-EngineConfigs.
<NathanKell>
the issue sounds like the RN vernier parts aren't placed in the tree
<ProjectThoth>
What's the Moon's orbital plane? 28.65 degrees?
<lamont>
nice
<Bornholio>
28.363
<ProjectThoth>
Huh, so the Cape is just barely able to launch right into it.
<Bornholio>
for some magic reason....
<lamont>
cape is just a hair too high
<ProjectThoth>
I've got 28.3922 degrees N for the Cape.
<ProjectThoth>
I guess the inclination change was low enough to basically not matter during Apollo.
<egg>
(that was launched from Kourou, upper stage cutoff pretty much exactly above Natal)
<lamont>
yaw steering
<egg>
(two P80s strapped on a stage with an LE-7, LE-5 upper stage)
<lamont>
you can burn a little dV on liftoff and launch to a lower inclination
<ProjectThoth>
lamont: Dogleg?
<acharles>
NathanKell: The issue is that they don’t seem to support test flight (that’s the symptom, though, I imagine.)
<NathanKell>
acharles: Wait I thought you said they didn't work with the tree
<NathanKell>
Not having TF configs has nothing to do with the tree. It just means no one gave them TF configs. That's true of a number of engines.
<acharles>
No. I checked. The verniers don’t have TF configs, but the main engines do.
<acharles>
but the main engine configs don’t get picked up
<acharles>
hence not supporting test flight being a symptom.
<acharles>
It’s hard to track down the issue when there’s 3-4 mods that all have MM configs that impact the final outcome
<Bornholio>
right now what has more RP-0 support BDB or KW rocketry?
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<Bornholio>
I notice a few texture load errors for FASA and Vens on load " Texture 'FASA/Apollo/ApolloCSM/FoilWhite' not found!" and " Texture 'VenStockRevamp/Squad/Parts/Aero/model001' not found!" are they worth even mentioning?
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<egg>
s/P80/Zefiro 23/
<Qboid>
egg meant to say: (two Zefiro 23s strapped on a stage with an LE-7, LE-5 upper stage)