<leudaimon>
saab's tanks are the ones with fixed diameter and procedural lenght right?
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: Congrats on your first! :)
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: :) :) :)
<NathanKell>
Man I can't _wait_ to play RiS on the new tree!
<Pap1723>
leudaimon: also, wait until we force you to throw some real weight into the atmosphere
<NathanKell>
^
<NathanKell>
that too
<soundnfury>
yeah, that will be good
<Pap1723>
NathanKell: there will be a lot of options that people will be able to go for. It should spread apart which firsts everyone has the potential to get
<NathanKell>
Exactly!
<Bornholio>
nothing i launch is hitting even close to runtime, :/
<leudaimon>
Pap1723, just noticed... I made a config for a proc. avionics for the start node, but the actual part is unlocking only in post-war avionics
<NathanKell>
Yeah, atm we have all controllable avionics there I think?
<NathanKell>
(well, except the Taerobee A-4 guidance ring--either the A-4 guidance should go to start or it should go to Postwar)
<leudaimon>
NathanKell, there is the A-4 guidance at start
<Bornholio>
soundnfury, that video is possible the most insulting to rocketry of all time, once you want the intro.
<Qboid>
NathanKell meant to say: (well, except the Taerobee A-4 guidance ring--either the 1m Starting Guidance Ring should go to start or it should go to Postwar)
<leudaimon>
I don't think it makes sense to have them in different nodes
<leudaimon>
I liked the idea of no avionics in the starting node
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<leudaimon>
but when I saw that the A-4 guidance was in the start I put a procedural there too
<Pap1723>
Apparently I quit...?
Pap1723 is now known as Pap
<Pap>
leudaimon: yeah, we should probably all make that decision now, how do we want the avionics to proceed?
<leudaimon>
I vote for no avionics in the start node
<leudaimon>
(wasn't the 1 crew record supposed to be removed?)
<NathanKell>
Crew count? I thought only changed so 2+ required orbit?
<NathanKell>
I...dang. Gameplay agrees with leudaimon, historicity agrees with putting it in the start node >.>
<NathanKell>
and soundnfury, Bornholio, I always liked that song :)
<leudaimon>
I feel I'm always the guy leaning more toward gameplay than historical accuracy
<NathanKell>
Seems possibly even charitable to the man >.>
<Bornholio>
sond fine the person singing is a major ...... i'll be polite
<NathanKell>
That's ok tho :)
<NathanKell>
This _is_ a game :D
<Bornholio>
song
<NathanKell>
Bornholio that's his job, no?
<NathanKell>
As the rightpondians say, taking the piss out of everything
<soundnfury>
:)
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|Twitch
<NathanKell|Twitch>
well, s/thing/one/
<Bornholio>
comedy doesn't require being wrong
* KevinStarwaster
sees 'twitch' and thinks convulsions...
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: it's satire, so it's taking the piss out of both sides
<NathanKell|Twitch>
see y'all in twitchat o/
<KevinStarwaster>
I dont twitch
<Bornholio>
maybbe i've only ever seen him being on the one side.
<KevinStarwaster>
who?
<Bornholio>
bah 7500m/s best yet attempt 15
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<acharles>
I read the comments on the issue that NathanKell|Twitch suggested I file for discussion. It seems most people involved in RP-0 are dismissive of the problem and proposed solution. The only constructive thing I can seemingly add at this point is that inviting someone to give feedback, them putting hours into writing it up and then having most other people be dismissive is poor form and won’t result in pleasant experiences for most peop
<acharles>
But thanks for considering it anyways.
<regex>
Can the description and genericDescription handle the same variables? It seems as if they're using things like "@/DurationText" in description.
<leudaimon>
regex, if you refer to CC, IIRC genericDescription can't have this kind of "procedural" field
<regex>
Ah, okay, thanks
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<stratochief>
acharles: I think your contract suggestion is a fresh take on how to guide new players through creating new launch vehicles/stages, for what it's worth.
<stratochief>
acharles: currently, the ways we try to support new players through that stage is to suggest they crib notes off of historical launch vehicles, or learn tips from one of the existing tutorial series
<stratochief>
the payout and career progression balance for RP-0 as it stands is already damn challenging to balance against different play styles and skill levels. personally, I don't see trying to integrate a new set of contracts to guide users through LV design as a win-win
<acharles>
stratochief: I hope you’ll appreciate that I didn’t view that as your perspective based on your comments a few hours ago.
<acharles>
I wouldn’t try to suggest it would be worth the effort.
<stratochief>
which is why I suggested & think that having them as a seperate optional set of contacts would be a place for you to start with the idea. it could depend on RP-0 being installed,
<acharles>
That would just make them be overpowered.
<acharles>
Unless I updated RP-0 and nerfed the milestone contracts
<acharles>
But more importantly, I don’t have the expertise to balance them.
<stratochief>
possibly, that is why striking game balance is damn hard. what it 'overpowered' will depend on the knowledge and learning rate of the player
<acharles>
The reason I had the idea is because I don’t know which LV’s I should be able to build at a given tech level
<stratochief>
a way to try a quick-balance would be to suggest 80% or 90% payout with those contracts installed, for new players who feel confident. but ultimately it is up to each new player to guess and set their challenge level, right?
<acharles>
So, being told that the existing system is ‘enough’ is like being told that it’s good enough for everyone else, it must be you that’s doing it wrong.
<stratochief>
acharles: for users unsure of what type of vehicle to build next, that is where I think either cribbing of historical vehicles or checking the tutorial series are good ways to figure that out
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<acharles>
I watched almost all of NK’s tutorial series.
<stratochief>
an alternate way to learn LV design could help, IMO the best way to do that would be to make the contracts optional
<acharles>
The biggest issue with his specifically and with RP-0 as a whole is that it’s built by people who have tons of historical context and knowledge and that means that if I don’t have and don’t want to have that knowledge, no one understands my perspective.
<acharles>
I don’t want to crib historical missions or LV's
<acharles>
I don’t really want to build an Atlas or Delta or whatever.
<acharles>
But that doesn’t mean that I don’t want to be guided toward building LV’s in the context of KSP, in a way that’s challenging and fun.
<stratochief>
earlier I suggested that adding a note of the type of historical vehicle that achieved a certain accomplishment might be helpful, because ultimately it comes down to year of hardware & mass of LV. would that be at least slightly helpful to you
<acharles>
It misses the point.
<stratochief>
either way, it seemed like an easy thing for us to add, because it can serve as both a historical tidbit, and a nudge towards the right type of LV
<acharles>
I could go to astronautix and look up LV properties and try to build them
<acharles>
But that’s not interesting or fun.
<acharles>
I like learning about modern LV’s
<acharles>
And I like building my own, mostly.
<acharles>
When NK says he’s building a Delta, I have no idea what that means. So, telling me in a contract to build a Delta, would mean nothing :P
<acharles>
So, it might help people, but it’s also dismissive of my actual goal/point.
<stratochief>
right, but what it would say is that a 100T delta rocket accomplished that goal for the US in 1962, say.
<stratochief>
so, it tells you what tech level it is accomplishable with, what payload mass did it for them, what mass of LV did it for them. when it comes down to it, payloads and LVs are just mass ratios
<acharles>
I think there’s a higher level miscommunication here.
<acharles>
Either I’m missing something or not communicating something.
<acharles>
Everyone seems to think that milestone contracts are the best thing since sliced bread and solve every problem.
<acharles>
I’m not sure why.
<acharles>
I’m willing to accept that it’s what we have and it may be the most cost effective solution.
<stratochief>
I'm not sure which contracts classify as 'milestones', does that include things like "send a camera to polar, return film", "send a satellite to GEO", etc?
<acharles>
But I’m not sure why people think they are so awesome, in theory.
<acharles>
I’m not sure, but most people consider the milestone ones to be the ones with huge payout
<acharles>
either upfront or completion or both.
<stratochief>
"first flyby of venus", "first human orbit of earth", etc?
<acharles>
Or like, first orbit?
<stratochief>
IMO, milestone contracts are 'great' since they 1. straightforwardly represent to the user what to accomplish, which is a meaningful advance of a program. 2. can be constructed using CC, which is the limitted tool we have for making contracts
<stratochief>
certainly not perfect, and we've strugled with all kinds of limitations within that, but it's what we've got, and it accomplishes an important communication of accomplishment and goal to the user
<stratochief>
certain things you suggest in your RP-0 Issue post, I'm not sure if they are currently factors that can be built into a CC contract, for example "must accomplish after tech level X is hit, but before tech level Y", which makes me hesistant
<stratochief>
what you describe is certainly a solid framework overall.
<acharles>
I’m not sure if it’s possible either
<acharles>
But the response I’ve gotten seems more like “milestone contracts are obviously better than what this guy is proposing, what is he thinking?” rather than “there’s some nuances that make what you propose complicated to do”.
<stratochief>
ultimately, it won't be known to what extent it is possible until you start trying to build them. no real need to worry about balance until you've got a working proof of concept
<stratochief>
milestones are superior, in that they already exist. beyond that, I don't consider them superior to anything, they are just the standard against which new things are measured because they exist and have been thoroughly tested
<stratochief>
and even with testing, some of them suck royally, like the station one, due to limitations in our imagination, testing, and CC :P
<acharles>
I agree, but that’s a given.
<stratochief>
making something new to replace or substantially augment what exists is extremely challenging. heck, Pap spent multiple months overhauling the existing contracts, and is a few months into work on an alternative tech tree
<acharles>
I guess I was hoping for constructive criticism and educational insight.
<acharles>
I did acknowledge that it would require lots of work and testing.
<stratochief>
well, I'm all for something that could make the learning curve more gradual. RP-0 is in the midst of like 2-3 things that are basically mandatory overhauls (contract overhaul from Pap, tech tree rebuild, figuring out new science costs with DMagic as mandatory), so I suggest starting your work as an Rp-0 dependant optional contract pack
<stratochief>
I have no talent for creating contracts, but there are plenty to look at, modify, and disect for you to learn from. and you'll generally find guinea pigs to be a second or third person to test things in this IRC, or through RO/Rp-0 git :)
<Bornholio>
stratochief i'm going to watch that also
<stratochief>
I'm glad they mentioned a nuclear source, or else I would've just walked out! :P
<Bornholio>
no kidding. Nasa does know that nuclear is the correct option even when they "Can't" choose it
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<Pap>
acharles: I apologize if I came of dismissive of your ideas, at first I didn't understand them
<Pap>
What I was trying to get across is that I do not know how the contracts would be any different than what currently exists
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<taniwha>
enjoy your food
<taniwha>
and that was a good episode for us
<taniwha>
not so good for you, though
<blowfish>
my power died right at the end, what happened?
<NathanKell>
had to cheat max temp
<taniwha>
but he got the contract
<Bornholio>
Re-entry?
<ferram4>
So, probably RC resizing bug.
<blowfish>
right after the 2nd parachute explosion
<blowfish>
ah
<blowfish>
drag cubes might be it
<blowfish>
I've had to do a fair bit of work to get them to render reliably and stick
<NathanKell>
It's very clearly drag cubes, yeah
<NathanKell>
the chute shows more area despite (a) having a probe core under it which should occlude, and (b) being narrower.
<NathanKell>
more area in YN, the relevant direction
<taniwha>
I'd call that a smoking gun, but it's a groaner of a pun
<NathanKell>
Raidernick: Read the issue in detail. I don't know the answer to your question either, and therefore (AIUI) don't think merging will help at this point until someone who knows answers your question
<NathanKell>
taniwha: Heh
<NathanKell>
Pap am I supposed to be using DMagic Science on my TTT playthrough?
<NathanKell>
Think I missed that memo
<Pap>
NathanKell: it is not necessary (actually I don't know) but there aren't any DMagic experiements unlocked until later in the tree
<NathanKell>
ok
<Pap>
However, there are going to be a lot of blank science nodes as there are not a lot of science experiments past the first 8 years
<blowfish>
odd, I don't see any code in RealChute that even touches drag cubes
<NathanKell>
WHAT
<NathanKell>
I told Chris exactly how to render them
<NathanKell>
I saw his code
<NathanKell>
It used to be there
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|NOMZ
<Bornholio>
pap that problem with tech nodes not being pickable is near terminal on my build now
<Pap>
Does anyone know what that is caused by?
<Pap>
Damn, someting to look at tomorrow
<Pap>
Goodnight all
Pap is now known as Pap|Sleep
<regex>
I don't know if Atlas is doable procedurally with a single ring, too much part clipping, it disintegrates in flight on staging.
<regex>
I've noticed the physics changed a lot since 1.0 in terms of part clipping.
<blowfish>
NathanKell: maybe I'm missing it then?
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<regex>
hrm... also seems that I can't enable crossfeed on decouplers...
<regex>
Is that gated through the tech tree?
<regex>
Oh, huh, it's only on radials.
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
Bornholio: It happens when you unlock a node that has parts, the entry cost of which is more than you can afford (so the Purchase All Parts button is unclickable). You have to then select a purchased node where you *can* afford to purchase all the parts, and hover over the Purchase All Parts button, and that gives you your highlight back.
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
!tell Pap* It happens when you unlock a node that has parts, the entry cost of which is more than you can afford (so the Purchase All Parts button is unclickable). You have to then select a purchased node where you *can* afford to purchase all the parts, and hover over the Purchase All Parts button, and that gives you your highlight back.
<Qboid>
NathanKell|NOMZ: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell|NOMZ>
Regex lemme find my craft file when I get done eating
<regex>
God damnit, nothing crossfeeds...
<regex>
There we go
<regex>
NathanKell|NOMZ, it's cool, I'm getting something going that I like. I don't want to mess around with the ring, it's too volatile, too much shit clipping.
NathanKell|NOMZ is now known as NathanKell
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<NathanKell>
regex: I did it in such a way that there's no clipslosion
<Leukbaars>
heya!
<Leukbaars>
<-Bram
<taniwha>
It's over :/
<taniwha>
dad died about 2-1/2 hours ago
<taniwha>
peacefully, and mom was with him
<NathanKell>
taniwha: :\ albeit hurrah for peacefully and with family
<regex>
NathanKell, I see where I went wrong, too many structural elements, not enough engines floating in space. Anyway, I've had it for tonight. o/ all
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<xShadowx>
when you have a song stuck in your head and cant even play ksp because it doesnt fit the music
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQq6Q
<github>
RP-0/Pap-TechTree db0bd23 NathanKell: Remove the Crew Count 1 record, make crew count records require orbit, increase Crewed Karman rewards.
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|Twitch
<Leukbaars>
awesome, everything works :)
<Leukbaars>
thank you so much
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<Leukbaars>
i may turn off some of these mods though :p
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<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQqi7
<github>
RP-0/Pap-TechTree b7fc1c3 NathanKell: Move 1m, 2m, 3m avionics back a node each ( cfg only, not in the xls since that's yours Pap). Need 2m/3m guidance as of 1956 for those missiles.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Leukbaars: Ah, sorry, missed that! Great to know it works! :)
<riocrokite>
I wonder how stealthy are those planes, I remember that creator of F16 while criticizing F-35 said that whole stealth tech is not really effective
<taniwha>
Probus: I do not, but you could take a stab at fixing it
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Pap|Sleep is now known as Pap
<Pap>
o/
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell|NOMZ left a message for you in #RO [23.06.2017 05:37:14]: "It happens when you unlock a node that has parts, the entry cost of which is more than you can afford (so the Purchase All Parts button is unclickable). You have to then select a purchased node where you *can* afford to purchase all the parts, and hover over the Purchase All Parts button, and that gives you your highlight ba
<Qboid>
ck."
<Bornholio>
pap nk's trick helps a lot
<Pap>
Bornholio: I had seen him do that, it works great!
<Pap>
I didn't know what caused it until his response
<Bornholio>
I'm going to see if it has proper troubleshooting and issue in the KCT git
<Rokker>
Pap: did u see the pic I linked
<Bornholio>
We had the same thing on Fairchild the next year, had to hide it in our hangar till airshow day
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<Rokker>
Bornholio: that was actually it's second year there, too
<Bornholio>
They got a lot of apreciation then since they did first ins against rada rsites in Iraq even the crazy Wild Weasel folk liked them.
<Rokker>
Bornholio: 1990 was it's air show debut alongside the X-29
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<Rokker>
in dayton
<leudaimon|work>
o/
<Bornholio>
Yesterdays stealth is todays low observable :)
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<Pap>
Rokker: yes, that was a very cool shot
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<Duncan>
is it possible to adjust the maximum warp speed?
<Bornholio>
yes, its an RsS config
<Bornholio>
but thats dangerous to go higher
<Bornholio>
analytics gets wacky
<Duncan>
want to go lower
<Bornholio>
each planet has altitude limits also
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<Duncan>
It chokes my pc at the current max speed and it is unnecessarily fast anyway
<Duncan>
all the warp to functions use max speed
<Bornholio>
maybe a better way is to use Better time warp mod
<Bornholio>
ah
<Bornholio>
that may be a KCT/KAC setting
<Duncan>
better time warp plays fine with ro-rss-rp0-principia?
<Bornholio>
either way insude RealSolarSystemSettings.cfg is line 422 to 428 the speed rates
<Bornholio>
not sure about principia but i've used it with the others a bit.
<egg>
uh it tends to screw with principia if you're interested in landing on airless worlds
<Duncan>
thanks
<egg>
Duncan: e.g. principia#1346
<Qboid>
[#1346] title: When trying to land on the Mun, the vessel sinks below the ground and explodes | Error in the title. See the attached screenshots for a demonstration. The speed does not matter - The vessel will go below the ground, approximately until the command pod touches the surface, then there will be an explosion and the game will show that the Kerbal piloting the vessel has been killed.
<Qboid>
Before this happens, as the vessel dives into the surface, there is a rumble and persistent shaking of the screen. The bug occurs no matter where I try to land. Removing Principia solves the problem and allows normal landing.... | https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/principia/issues/1346
<Duncan>
thats fixed
<egg>
no
<egg>
Duncan: that's fixed absent bettertimewarp
<Duncan>
oh right
<egg>
bettertimewarp will override the timewarp limits
<Duncan>
ok well that means I cant use it
<egg>
thereby undoing the fix
<Duncan>
editing the configs will be fine
<Bornholio>
I hope KAC uses that not its own
<Bornholio>
Kac has cost me plenty of craft and missed maneuvers so i feel your pain
<Pap>
What is KAC?
<Bornholio>
kerbal alarm clock
<Bornholio>
accidentally click a timewarp icon on AP when -PE....hello planet
<leudaimon|work>
man, NathanKell|WORK managed a lunar sample return already?! I'll have to find ways to rush even more to keep up
<Pap>
TIL you can make custom formulas in Excel. Well, that'll make parts of my job easier (and more importantly, parts of RP-0 modifying)
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<Agathorn>
So my company is building its own internal web chat client.. and it sucks. I think I made them mad by commenting that my hundred year old IRC is a better chat system :p
<Agathorn>
well sucks is too harsh
<Pap>
leudaimon|Work: he actually took 3 tries to get it to work
<Agathorn>
but its just like all the other hip and new chats
<Agathorn>
inefficient
<Pap>
lol Agathorn
<Bornholio>
what hipchat, never used it :P
<Agathorn>
I think their goal was a slack clone though it doesn't come anywhere near that
<Agathorn>
to me it feels like iChat heh
<Agathorn>
but they just added emojis so that will make all the hip kids happy
<Agathorn>
I relly am getting to old
<Pap>
Agathorn: we are one of the only companies (I would guess in the world) that uses Lotus Notes as our email client
<Pap>
It has a Messenger system built in that is essentially AIM from the 2000's
<Pap>
Even it still has emojis
<Pap>
The 40-50 year old ladies kove to use tme (from my experience)
<Bornholio>
pap what is first sun syncronous sat supposed to represent
<soundnfury>
Agathorn: it could be worse; my company recently switched to Slack, shut down their IRC server, and refuse to enable IRC-to-Slack gatewaying
<Pap>
Bornholio: nothing in particular, it was just designed to be used as an introduction to those types of orbits since later on the weather sats are going to use them a lot
<Bornholio>
maybe add 1kg weather sat bus requirement otherwise first comsat combines with it no penalty, other than the dV
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: I always go into the KAC settings and disable the 'warp to' buttons
<Bornholio>
I forget to
<Bornholio>
then pain
<Agathorn>
I think there is still room for better integrated communication systems.. but why must they all foget the basics?
<soundnfury>
it's become part of my 'ritual' when starting a new game. I should probably make a checklist one of these days ;)
<Bornholio>
I know, and add must have mods (DPAI for one)
<Bornholio>
one feature i want from 1.3 is ambient light adjustement so i done need min ambient light mod
<Pap>
Bornholio: that makes sense
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<CobaltWolf>
o/
<regex>
o/
<CobaltWolf>
mornin y'all
<Bornholio>
hi
<Pap>
o\
<Agathorn>
hey
<Bornholio>
pap my "solar panel" is 58 part count, on a 13 part comsat
<Pap>
Bornholio: Did you place a ton of them in symmetry?
<Bornholio>
56 of the 3watt ones
<Bornholio>
on a thrsut plate
<Pap>
I did the same thing when I made my Telstar I knockoff, I had placed them all over
<Pap>
I also created a Medium Solar Panel that unlocks in the next node
<Pap>
I think I need to create one inbetween the Medium and the Tiny Size
<Pap>
Just to save on part count
<Bornholio>
main funstio should be weight performance
<Bornholio>
like the st-1 vs 2 and density of power
<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* I watched your TTT VOD from last night. You can modify the texture that the SSTU engine mount uses by right clicking on the part and cycling through
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<soundnfury>
hmm, I *might* be able to do lunar sample return pre-hydrolox
<soundnfury>
despite having the self-imposed rule of no airlighting LR105s
<soundnfury>
by having an Atlas with six boosters and two sustainers
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<soundnfury>
however, I'm not sure whether I should do such a horrendous thing
<Bornholio>
lol
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<soundnfury>
...nah, I've gone over the numbers and it's just not quite grunty enough :(
<Bornholio>
I did my las one with lots of drop tanks
<Bornholio>
1kn thrusters, dropping away as the TWR grew
<Bornholio>
but yeah that hydrolox upper makes a world of differnce
<soundnfury>
it's partly because my avionics aren't quite good enough to have two stages of probecore
<Bornholio>
wish you could make RCS show as dV
<soundnfury>
in other news, \o/ it's independence day \o/
<Bornholio>
confused
<soundnfury>
first anniversary of the brexit referendum :)
<Bornholio>
oh
<Bornholio>
lol
<Bornholio>
yeah could not think of a country with today as independance day, maybe some post french colony
<soundnfury>
right, I have docking ports, maybe I can do an EOR-constructed lunar sample return
<Bornholio>
if you get close enough 1.3 meters i think, science boxes can grab data :P
<soundnfury>
I think the contract requires the original lander to come back
<Bornholio>
cargo bay...
<Bornholio>
use a smaller one with Heatshield as a hangar to receive the probe core with data, actual fuel docking ports probably the best weight savings, Heatshield just below it.
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<soundnfury>
nah, I'm gonna do the EOR _before_ going to the moon.
<soundnfury>
dock a lander with a TLI stage
<Rokker>
Pap: FUCK
<Rokker>
fuck fuck fuck
<Bornholio>
explitive!
<Rokker>
Pap: thunderbird rolled over in dayton
<Rokker>
rip F-16
<Bornholio>
very well maintained F-16, electric lawn darrts do that Rokker
<Rokker>
Bornholio: ran off the runway and rolled
<Rokker>
laying upside down now, apparently
<leudaimon|work>
o/ soundnfury
<leudaimon|work>
I'm also thinking what I can do to beat NK for the lunar sample
<Bornholio>
Live Pilot >>> Dead F-16
<leudaimon|work>
wonder if with the staged combustion engines I can manage something in the 800T launch pad limit
<Rokker>
Bornholio: meh
<Rokker>
stratochief: wake up
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<soundnfury>
leudaimon|Work: I've concluded that it doesn't work, no matter which way I slice it
<soundnfury>
not unless I'm willing to build a ludicrously big rocket, and no thanks
<Rokker>
stratochief: ping
<leudaimon|work>
I'll try something with a proton-like rocket I think, develop my next gen of LVs based on the RD-253 and the NK-9V
<Rokker>
Bornholio: pilot gave a thumbs up after crash so
<Bornholio>
yup, airframe probably ok too, won't be a thunderbird anymore though unless damage was real light
<Bornholio>
heavy rain? pictures out so far suck
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<Rokker>
Bornholio: yeah it's raining like a motherfucker
<Rokker>
Bornholio: reports are that it was wind, but I highly doubt these journalists are knowledgeable in what that would look like
<Rokker>
Bornholio: one person trapped jnside
<Bornholio>
Having helped flip over F-16 due to wind guessing the plane is okay, gets a A phase inspection after frame repair
<Bornholio>
He had a rider?
<Rokker>
Bornholio: dual seater, so prolly
<Rokker>
new reports both people trapped
<Rokker>
fucking news trying to be first
<Bornholio>
ah, the Thumbs up was from behind glass
<Bornholio>
a F-16 crashed at houston yesterday thought you talked about that at first
<Rokker>
nah
<Rokker>
t-bird
<Rokker>
Bornholio: luckily it's only one of the 2 seater tbirds
<Rokker>
not one of the actual main demonstration team ones
<Rokker>
Bornholio: I was worried at first cause all I got was it was a 2 seater jet
<Rokker>
and the only 2 seaters here are the two tbirds and the Lockmart T-50 trainer for the T-X competition
<regex>
I might have to make a red texture to at least pay homage to Space Santa
<Bornholio>
one here in Omaha has red base also
<regex>
Yeah, it looks like it was fairly common early
<regex>
^on the early models
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: Woot!
<Qboid>
NathanKell|WORK: Pap left a message for you in #RO [23.06.2017 16:03:47]: "I watched your TTT VOD from last night. You can modify the texture that the SSTU engine mount uses by right clicking on the part and cycling through"
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: Also, set the ejection forces on the proc fairing side to 0 (0 straight, 0 torque) to avoid that turning ;)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Ah I thought someone said that only came with 1.3. Will try tonight!
<NathanKell|WORK>
soundnfury, leudaimon|Work: I think you might be able to get the whole thing down to ~3t. Maybe 3.5. And that should be slingable with kerolox
<NathanKell|WORK>
with proc avionics that is
<Rokker>
stratochief: PINGGGG
<regex>
NathanKell|WORK, thanks, I'll try that
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: I had actually made those changes already with the guidance units, but had forgotten to push it, thanks for taking care of it! Also, thanks for fixing the couple of contracts as well
<leudaimon|work>
NathanKell|WORK, yeah, proc. avionics will help, and the staged combustion engines, if I accept their unreliability
<regex>
And thanks for letting me see the craft too, glad you still had that. floating the engines reduces the clipping, really helps with sep. Would have taken me a few more days to figure that one out, if at all.
<NathanKell|WORK>
It took ~80t of hydrolox to do mine. You probably need like 100t of kerolox even staged to do it. And then a booster to loft that
<Rokker>
stratochief: oioioioi
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: :)
<Rokker>
guys
<Rokker>
I'm afrid
<Rokker>
I'm afraid stratochief is dead
<Rokker>
rip in peace
<leudaimon|work>
NathanKell|WORK: 80T of upper stage + TLI?
<NathanKell|WORK>
yeah, I mean 80t of hydrolox plus 5t of payload that goes to the moon. Then 200t of first stage under it
<soundnfury>
NathanKell|WORK: yeah, I tried, and I couldn't get the design to close, with (say) a triple-engine Agena TLI stage, going up with nothing but a docking port, on a 6+2 Atlas
<NathanKell|WORK>
But I rather overengineered (had 2-300m/s spare in the LV, and could do the payload on 4t)
<soundnfury>
came out about 500m/s short
<NathanKell|WORK>
yeah, even a hexatlas isn't gonna cut it
<NathanKell|WORK>
you need staging
<NathanKell|WORK>
you know you could just use the LR91 right?
<NathanKell|WORK>
that air-lights
<soundnfury>
NathanKell|WORK: yeah, but I haven't unlocked and TFed it yet
<leudaimon|work>
my idea (won't be able to test soon) is a 4-RD253 first stage, and 1 or 2 NK9V second stage,
<soundnfury>
so that would be somewhat expensive and risky
<NathanKell|WORK>
soundnfury: true
egg is now known as egg|nomz|egg
<soundnfury>
so I think I'll let this particular stunt slip by
<NathanKell|WORK>
leudaimon|Work: 4 RD-253, then I'd say 2-3 NK-9V second, and then an 11D33M
<NathanKell|WORK>
maybe only 2 on the second.
<NathanKell|WORK>
soundnfury: For me it's very much only possible because hydrolox, well, let me restate, I'd need a Juno V class LV to do it without
<leudaimon|work>
yeah, that's what I had in mind NathanKell|WORK
<leudaimon|work>
I hope 2 NK-9V to work
<soundnfury>
NathanKell|WORK: yeah, and I'm not ready to go to those levels of crazy
<NathanKell|WORK>
soundnfury: Probably wouldn't cost any more than mine tho :P
<soundnfury>
(I haven't even got Mature Orbital Rocketry at this (Oct 53) point)
<soundnfury>
so that really would be getting into cluster's last stand territory
<NathanKell|WORK>
you have 800t to play with. So consider a Quadratlas with 4 E-1s? :P
<NathanKell|WORK>
Oh.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yeah.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yeah, ok. :]
<stratochief>
Rokker: ?
<Rokker>
stratochief: less than an hour
<leudaimon|work>
if my math is correct the most 4 RD253 can lift is a 500T LV
<stratochief>
Rokker: until? soviet or spacex launch?
<NathanKell|WORK>
leudaimon|Work: 4 RD-253s means all-up mass on the order of...yeah
<Rokker>
stratochief: ah shit it got pushed even more so 5 min til unbroadcasted sowjet launcb
<Rokker>
hour 10 til spex
<leudaimon|work>
can always go full Proton and up to 6, getting to the limit of the launch pad
<NathanKell|WORK>
Of which probably 365 is first stage and 135 second and third, I'd think
<NathanKell|WORK>
I think you might want 3 NK-9Vs then
<stratochief>
Rokker: yeah, I was aware of the secret soviet launch, sadly no stream. but I'll probably be asleep if the spacex one is in 10 hrs for real
<NathanKell|WORK>
or two 11D33Ms
<Rokker>
stratochief: no
<Rokker>
one hour 10m min
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<leudaimon|work>
yeah, will have to get to the game to figure what is more efficient
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<leudaimon|work>
I wonder how I'll fit 3 NK-9Vs in 3-4m
<stratochief>
Rokker: ahh, hour 10, not 10 hours. cool, I'll probably see that then. water or land recovery?
<NathanKell|WORK>
leudaimon|Work: First stage will be wider surely?
<NathanKell|WORK>
bells only have to fit the interstage
<leudaimon|work>
you are right... I was thinking of doing a proton-like first stage, but might go for a large diameter in a cilinder
<Rokker>
stratochief: water
<NathanKell|WORK>
you have General Construction so you have, what, 6m max?
<NathanKell|WORK>
6.75? whatever it is
<NathanKell|WORK>
so yeah, definitely the time to do a monobloc first stage
<leudaimon|work>
not sure if it's unlocked already, but will be for the lunar heatshields anyway
<NathanKell|WORK>
You can also spend more money and do it on 4 stages, of course
<NathanKell|WORK>
4 253s, 3 9Vs, 1 9V, 2 11D33M
<NathanKell|WORK>
very proton
<leudaimon|work>
sure, but that starts getting really complicated... I hope I can achieve the necessary d-v with 3 stages
<NathanKell|WORK>
It's not really that complicated, just involves 2m30s burn times instead of 6m burn times
<leudaimon|work>
yeah... I don't have enough practice to weight those possibilities out of the game
<regex>
recommendations for a DDS editing software on Windows?
<Rokker>
stratochief: wow
<Rokker>
stratochief: elon just said this booster might not survive
<Bornholio>
Rokker the F-16 finally has good pictures
<Bornholio>
and if the land it, the reliability curve goes way up
<stratochief>
they could be pushing the recovery envelope or trying a variation on procedure, since recovering this booster is of lower value than the recovery of a first use booster
<Pap>
stratochief: I am glad to see that rokker's earlier reports of your demise were incorrect
<Rokker>
Pap: thats not really him
<Rokker>
he ded
<Rokker>
its a ghost
<stratochief>
Pap: :) rokker gets over-excited sometimes. too much flouride in the water, or chemtrails in his skies
<Rokker>
WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK IM A CONSPIRACY THEORIST FOR SOME REASON
<Pap>
Does anyone know who Kevin Gustafson is from YouTube? He posted a nice N1 Lunar Landing video today from RSS-RO
<Rokker>
>nice
<Rokker>
>N1
<Rokker>
pick one
<stratochief>
Rokker: your mid-west upbringing and zelous right-wingedness?
<Rokker>
...
<stratochief>
Pap: orlly? link? I've heard the name before, but I don't know if it was from a past youtube video or in passing on the forum
<Rokker>
you do realize that conspiracy theorism is pretty apolitical
<Rokker>
both sides have a lot of em
<Bornholio>
is the russian launch streamed?
<stratochief>
Rokker: sure. but pizzagate, 4 dimensional chess, and infowars have been much bigger of late nation-wide than anti-vaxxers and flouride haters. that could of course just be my impression, and I also jest at my widely left wing friends
<Bornholio>
point me
<Rokker>
Bornholio: it already launched
<stratochief>
Bornholio: I think the soviet launch is *redacted*
<Rokker>
and no its top secret
<Rokker>
stratochief: have you listened to keith olbermann
<stratochief>
Rokker: I poke fun at a ton of 'California dreamers' over the past year, who were basically broken by the election and basically just imagine Cali as its own little country :P
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<Bornholio>
rokker people out of plane
<regex>
It's not Realistic Politics Zero, guys.
<stratochief>
Rokker: no, not him or R. Maddow for at least a few years. so many big personalities have gone over the deep-end in the past few years. Watch me yell!
<Rokker>
stratochief: then thats why
<Rokker>
regex: every time i point that out and ask for political discussions to stop i get "go back to your safe space, we are allowed to talk politics here"
<stratochief>
Rokker: hasn't olbermann been working for a fashion magazine for a few years now, since he went off the leash?
<Rokker>
stratochief: aye
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<stratochief>
Rokker: regex *polite politics. feel free to cite offensive things said here, and they wil be reigned in
<Rokker>
stratochief: he runs a political webcast for GQ
<Rokker>
stratochief: everything you say offends me
<Bornholio>
he makes nice videos
<Bornholio>
for a commie :)
<Pap>
Yeah, I liked this one. First I saw Bornholio
<Agathorn>
and yet agaain no technical webcast :(
<NathanKell|WORK>
Bornholio: Thanks!
<NathanKell|WORK>
...oh you didn't mean me?
<Agathorn>
thats like 3 launches or so without a technical webcast.. I be sad
* NathanKell|WORK
ducks
<stratochief>
Rokker: yeah, I'm aware he is still alive and making content. I don't know a single person who watches him or takes him seriously, but I'm sure they exist. I just don't now how popular he still is
<Bornholio>
lol
<CobaltWolf>
waut whi us thus?
<CobaltWolf>
oh jesus
<CobaltWolf>
*wait who is this?
<Pap>
Has SpaceX made space launches popular again, or is it the access of being able to stream launches that make them popular?
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: that rokker and I talked about (keith olberman) or the vidja ( Kevin Gustafson) ?
<regex>
Pap, both IMO
<Pap>
Or, are they are not popular and I am in one of those echo chambers of people with like ideas?
<regex>
Also replays. My daughter loves watching Falcon 9 landings
<stratochief>
Pap: both. I'd give spacex cred for making them hosted and consistent, with graphics, science, and everything
<Rokker>
Pap: nah
<Bornholio>
Pap watch his apollo 8 one its pretty good
<Rokker>
Pap: the launches saw a spike in popularity
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<Rokker>
and now are dying off again
<regex>
Landings.
<stratochief>
some of the recent entry burn shots have been magnificent
<Pap>
Bornholio: I saw that he has that dubbed with Cronkite, excited about that one
<regex>
Something interesting to the layman happened
<Bornholio>
cronkite is like reliving childhood
<regex>
^^^
<Pap>
Yeah, that makes sense, and now it is going back to being routine, like Apollo missions made going to the Moon
<Pap>
Have to keep pushing to something new
<stratochief>
regex: yeah. ocean landing failures, then ocean landing successes.
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief: idk which one, I just got back and... y'know what never mind. I've been sipping beer since noon while I clean/pack up my apartment, so I tried scrolling up to read... if I can't do that then no use trying to explain to me
<Agathorn>
I'm just sad that they appear to have killed off their technical webcasts
<Pap>
SLS will get people excited again, as will Falcon Heavy (if it ever launches) /s
<regex>
lol Falcon Heavy
<stratochief>
Pap: agreed
<Agathorn>
might start watching less of the SpaceX launchs
<regex>
also, Falcon Hea^H^H^HHAHAHAHAHAHA
<stratochief>
Agathorn: yeah, I love the technical webcasts.although I can just watch the normal one on mute, or with old audio overlayed :P
<stratochief>
regex: explain the FHate?
<Agathorn>
stratochief: kinf od defeats th purpose though
<Agathorn>
I don't understand why they killed it off
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: good luck on the pack/move. IMO, best done sobber, but I'm nearly a teatotler
<regex>
It's a fucking unicorn. Until I see it on the pad it's nothing to get hyped about.
<Agathorn>
regex so is anything that is in the future
<stratochief>
regex: fair enough. but I expect to see it on the pad within 2-6 months, so...
<regex>
And people have been citing its stats and putting it on posters like it's flying
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief: I'll be fine don't worry haha. Just hard to read atm... my Discord refers to me as an alcohol > mod parts ISRU system :P
<Agathorn>
don't blame SpaceX for The Internet
<Ezko_>
stratochief: i expected to see it on the pad within 2-6 months 15 months ago
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: you forget the pizza fuel input
<CobaltWolf>
naw food ruins the equation :P
<stratochief>
Ezko_: right, but the old seasoned analysts also didn't see the fall of the berlin wall coming, because they got accustomed to seeing it stay up. remain vigalent, keep checking data & assumptions
<Pap>
14 minutes out and we are live
regex is now known as regex|lunch
<Rokker>
regex|lunch: eat fast
<CobaltWolf>
14 mins from what?
<stratochief>
Rokker: the FH capable pad will be done in what, 2-4 months now? then a full up test of 3 cores, then launch possibly late this year or before mid next year at the latest?
<Rokker>
launch > lunch
<regex|lunch>
gonna miss the launch
<Rokker>
CobaltWolf: launch
<Rokker>
regex|lunch: the fuck you are
<Rokker>
regex|lunch: you eat fast dammit
<Rokker>
stratochief: nobody knows
<regex|lunch>
Eh, I can watch a replay, I don't get a chance to judge a pork shoulder contest every week.
<regex|lunch>
o/
<Rokker>
stratochief: thats the plan i think
<soundnfury>
regex|lunch: stop making me hungry :(
<stratochief>
regex|lunch: Infidel
<Rokker>
but spacex plans dont like reality
<CobaltWolf>
Rokker: thoughts on the ITS system? :P
<stratochief>
Rokker: yeah, fair. whichis where attitudes like Ezko_'s come from. but the announcement dates from SpaceX have been narrowing, and literal construction continues at a decent pace.
<Rokker>
CobaltWolf: as an Op of #SpaceX, its awesome, super cool, and will launch by 2024
<Pap>
ITS = never gonna happen
<Rokker>
as a realistic human being, lolwut
<Rokker>
Pap: i think it might happen
<CobaltWolf>
I laughed out loud when I saw it landing, and the second transport being loaded by that huge crane...
<Rokker>
but i think even SLS will beat it to mars
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: ITS will be much easier to bracket once they make real tanks, show actual tank tests, structural fab, etc.
<Rokker>
CobaltWolf: the crane is generally accepted to be just a poor visualization
<Pap>
Rokker: I just don't understand why it will happen though. I don't see where the money is going to be made with it, but maybe I am wrong
<CobaltWolf>
I figured
<Rokker>
Pap: elon aint doing it for money
<CobaltWolf>
Pap: well, I think the idea is at that point they'll be able to spend excess money on it... but if they prove it works don't worry, there'd be no shortage of investors
<Pap>
stratochief: yeah, the carbon fiber tanks need to be produced in full, not produced half and half and then put together
<stratochief>
Pap: Elon is fairly clear that he intends to put tons of personal money towards development, not aiming at profit with ITS
<Pap>
But why don't people understand that living on Mars is not a viable long-term solution for humans?
<stratochief>
Pap: yep. and the tank we've seen was the smallest tank for the second stage, IIRC. lots of progress to be made
<Pap>
At least at our current technology levels
<Rokker>
tenmin
<stratochief>
Pap: but.. it totally is. just not at current levels of investment. with like 0.5% of global GDP, we'd have a permanent base by 2030 and then a growing colony
<Pap>
stratochief: But how? People living underground or in domes?
<stratochief>
Pap: we have absolutely huge gobs of resoures as a species. we just spend the excess on big boats, private planes, and mansions
<stratochief>
Pap: both are feasible. underground is safest for radiation reasons, but frankly radiation isn't a real concern IMO
<soundnfury>
stratochief: actually, we spend _most_ of it on making middle-class people's lives slightly more comfortable
<soundnfury>
boats and mansions are lost in the noise :P
<stratochief>
soundnfury: keeping up with the jones', yeah. but I'm fine cutting off the excess at the top to send to Mars, or end poverty
<stratochief>
create a 5% globa viagra and make-up tax, fund the future!
<Pap>
But people are not supposed to live undergound. That is not the type of species we are. We like being able to look out at vistas with green grass and trees and blue skies. In order for people to comfotably live and more importantly, THRIVE, there needs to be football field sized and larger clear bubble domes that can grow plants and forests and beauty
<soundnfury>
stratochief: so anyway, nope.
<stratochief>
Pap: sleep underground, work above ground? I did it for nearly a decade :P
<Pap>
where stratochief!??!!??
<stratochief>
Pap: bubble domes come a decade or two out, once we have a native plastics industry. medium domes could be sent out, for agriculture
<stratochief>
Pap: never lived in a windowless basement? college was fun :P
<Pap>
lol
<Pap>
So stratochief, you are talking best case scenario if we actually invested real amounts of money into it, call be dumb, but don't see it happening
<Pap>
ok, launch time
<stratochief>
Pap: fair. but you said the tech doesn't exist, now I've argued you to "well, construction isn't adequately funded" :P
<Pap>
:) fair enough stratochief. using clear and concise words is important
egg|nomz|egg is now known as egg
<Bornholio>
rokker she is fine, just ahalf million in repairs and back in flight
<stratochief>
Pap: soundnfury: how about funding space & tech development with a 0.1%-ish wealth tax, on wealth over 1 person? :P
<Pap>
Does it sound to anyone else like the guy is broadcasting from inside the cafeteria with the clanging of utensils on a plate?
<NathanKell|WORK>
I can't take the chatter and have my headphones off
<CobaltWolf>
: what a quick 15 seconds
<soundnfury>
stratochief: nope. And I'm not going to argue this right now.
<NathanKell|WORK>
I think the political messages are getting a bit....taxing.
<Bornholio>
stratochief yesterdays webcast was horrible, great content, horrible production. Nasa needs some cheap webcams and good microphones purchased
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<Rokker>
fuck me
<Pap>
Looks like it is leaning a little, am I imagining that?
<Rokker>
that landing
<Rokker>
Pap: legs are a write off now
<stratochief>
that core looks... tilted to me too. could be bug eye camera
<Rokker>
Pap: crush core
<Rokker>
stratochief: nope
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<Rokker>
2 broken legs
<Rokker>
happened once before
<Rokker>
legs will likely not be reused
<Pap>
That thing must have been coming in hot, is that the first 3 engine landing burn?
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<Rokker>
Pap: all 3 engines burning until the very end, yeah prolly
<stratochief>
soundnfury: totally fair. but if you want to PM me a link to the argument against a wealth or financial transaction tax from your side's perspective, I'd be happy to read it :)
<Bornholio>
so thats research points from recovered craft from space... 2.3pts
<Pap>
lol Bornholio!
<stratochief>
Rokker: fair enough. but I'd expect broken legs to result in the rocket falling over, given how tall it is compared to the extension of the legs, and rocking ocean
<Bornholio>
they get great data from engines having a second burn near limits and see exactly how much throat burn and wear, no re-use means destructive testing to get great info
<Rokker>
happened before
<xShadowx>
stratochief: arrest the 1%ers, sieze assets, fund space :P
<stratochief>
Rokker: yikes. well, at least they are standing on the correct side of the redwood
<Rokker>
stratochief: its got... i wanna say an alumunium honeycomb? inside the legs
<stratochief>
xShadowx: but that would lead to unpredictable political and economic tumult, so I disagree with that route
<Rokker>
stratochief: lunar lander had something similar iirc
<stratochief>
Rokker: braves bees and their aluminium honeycomb
<Pap>
Bornholio: as long as SpaceX uses those science points correctly and opens the Surface Station node
<Rokker>
stratochief: it almost seems like the intentionally hinder the gimballing or something of the engines on these low fuel landings
<stratochief>
Pap: nah, they still need to invest in ultra-large carbon fibre fabrication, martian hypersonic retropropulsion, and martian ISRU
<Rokker>
because they always seem to come in a lot more off center
<Rokker>
and a lot more all over the place
<Bornholio>
ultra large CF is already and done, my robots at kawasaki doing ti for boeing fuselages
<stratochief>
Rokker: possibly because gimbal lag is crucial during the final few seconds, so it is better to limit gimbal and end up off-centre rather than deal with innacurate results of last-second gimballing?
<Rokker>
stratochief: it was way off to the side of the ship before signal loss
<stratochief>
Bornholio: but, gotta be super light, and resistant to liquid oxygen temps & lliquid oxygen fire. also, boeing and spacex aren't sharing science points or fab time
<Bornholio>
they just gotta go buy it from the big K
<Bornholio>
is there a Ro mod with the be methane engine in it?
<Pap>
Bornholio: The BE-4?
<Bornholio>
yes
<Pap>
Vens has one converted
<Pap>
Otherwise, not that I know of
<stratochief>
is enough known about the BE-4 yet (or Raptor) to believe that we have accurate stats for them?
<Pap>
doubtful stratochief, but we also have the E-1 without a lot of info
<stratochief>
Pap: true. but the E-1 was ane extension of proven technology. big methane engines are currently barely more than ... hot gas :P
<Bornholio>
engine testing on two new stands later this year if BO keeps it together
<stratochief>
Bornholio: I certainly expect somethign to come of the developments, the current data we have isn't necessarily reflective of the latest data BO and SpaceX have internally
<Bornholio>
yeah the numbers are too, rounded to put it mildly
<stratochief>
SLS goals for the advanced boosters are also fairly... rounded. I'm still kinda sad they didn't persue liquid F-1B boosters
<Bornholio>
that said the US should have concurrently done SSME as hydrolox and metholox, now we have J-2X....
<CobaltWolf>
E-1 serves a purpose just by doing the math to figure out what a 'standard' US kerolox engine from that time period is, to fill the size gap between H-1 and F-1
<CobaltWolf>
hard numbers for it are secondary IMO
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: and real hard numbers will never exist for the E-1, so best estimates won't ever be unseated by real numbers
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<NathanKell|WORK>
Need to redo the E-1 upgrade since that DynaSoar paper expected what, 460klbf?
<CobaltWolf>
oh, true
<CobaltWolf>
Looks like we're finally getting someone who will finish an X-20 expansion for BDB
<CobaltWolf>
I've just been giving him technical advice w/ Maya
<NathanKell|WORK>
Googled. Yep.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Boeing was paired with (I forget whom) for spacecraft/LV. The other final pair was Bell/Martin, with Martin doing the LV (Titan II/III)
<NathanKell|WORK>
USAF went with Boeing, but was much, much more confident about Titan as the LV, so went with Martin there instead of Boeing's partner.
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<NathanKell|WORK>
(I googled for Martin DynaSoar pics; I was unable to find where I originally read about the contracting, so that's from memory)
<taniwha>
Pap: you're gonna regret that six months down the track
<NathanKell|WORK>
Is there more on the second line?
<NathanKell|WORK>
CobaltWolf: Welp, but then look at the SLS articles where USAF are Teh Awesome and it's Evul NASA at fault
<taniwha>
one would hope so, but even the summary line should be mildly informative
<NathanKell|WORK>
But yeah, it's very nuSpace in that it's in general anti-'bureaucracy'
<Probus>
So did the Falcon 9 land w/out incident?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Depends on what you mean :P
<taniwha>
broke a leg, it seems
<NathanKell|WORK>
But landed safe otherwise
<Pap>
taniwha: it is actually just a copy of NK push from yesterday, he already committed with good terms :)
<taniwha>
sprained ankle? :)
<Probus>
Looked like the thrust was over the ocean.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap did I push to the wrong branch?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Oh it's the xlsx
<NathanKell|WORK>
I didn't realize it was on git
<taniwha>
Pap: even a comment to that effect will save you grief later down the track
<NathanKell|WORK>
^
<taniwha>
Pap: saves you from that "why did I make this commit?!?"
<NathanKell|WORK>
Resist the urge to accept the automatic "Update <filename>" message that Git gives you :)
<Bornholio>
too legit to commit
<taniwha>
Pap: btdt :)
<taniwha>
(I do still have some short messages, but they're usually things like "ksp 1.3 updates" "whitespace" (and actually limited to whitespace), or very similar
<Pap>
I apprecaite the feedback and ideas, I know for sure that I have wondered why I did something before and this is my first time working with a group on a project like this as well
<Pap>
I commented on the Commit
<taniwha>
but the best messages have a brief summary then in the main block go into details of why and any important comments (eg, what's broken if something is still borked, or docs on a new feature or...)
<taniwha>
Pap: you are never not on a team: the other team member is yourself six months later
<Pap>
^^ that is a great point
<taniwha>
(and that later self is the one most likely to want to strangle you:)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: I also did the guidance rings change that I !told you about the other day, that also isn't in the xls
<NathanKell|WORK>
(I didn't actually realize it was in git)
<taniwha>
also, here's a handy git alias: lg = log --color --graph --pretty=format:'red%hreset -(yellow)%dreset %s green(%cr)(bold blue)<%an>reset' --abbrev-commit
<taniwha>
er... xchat broke it
<Probus>
I wish SpaceX would improve their landing video coverage. Propaganda if nothing else...
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: Yeah, I didn't push to RP-0 yet. I saw your changes. I had made them as well, just had forgotten to push them. I am current with what you put up last night (I pulled them)
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<taniwha>
Pap: also, a very handy git command: git show 8385f5fa0d (or other commit identifier)
<taniwha>
gives commit message and diff
<taniwha>
(and yeah, command line junkie)
<CobaltWolf>
NathanKell|WORK: yes I've seen the SLS article haha
<CobaltWolf>
NathanKell|WORK: just full on believing of the amazing possibilities of every paper project...
<stratochief>
did anybody else watch the NASA talk about surface power options for humans to Mars? it was better than I thought it would be, in terms of content: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGPum1TG-Jg
<stratochief>
they discussed both solar and nuclear options, and also considered power requirements for ISRU propellant production!
* taniwha
watches
<taniwha>
hehe, lag-echo
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<Probus>
How is the upper stage of a Falcon 9 planned to land if the isp of the engine is tailored for space?
<stratochief>
taniwha: yeah. I winced more than once at their failure to succeed at basic teleconference tech, but I enjoyed the content/discussion
<stratochief>
Probus: my off the wall guess was that they jettison/asplode the bell extension off?
<Probus>
Well that's interesting. I wonder... Can't wait to see what happens with the Falcon Heavy.
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<Probus>
I think the plan is to recover the second stage on that.
<xShadowx>
stratochief: what about wind? i know mars atmo is thin, but doesnt it get some high wind at times?
<stratochief>
Probus: I'm sure they'll try at some point, but I'm skeptical of the business value of doing it
<xShadowx>
esp if they can find copper to make wire for motors in situ ;3
<stratochief>
xShadowx: yeah, the wind speed gets high, but the air is so damn thin, it really doesn't matter, other than for blocking the sun with dust, coating solar panels with dust
<taniwha>
xShadowx: don't need copper
<taniwha>
sure, copper is good, but most any metal works
<taniwha>
including calcium
<xShadowx>
ya but more eff :)
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<taniwha>
copper is not the best
<Rokker>
Bornholio: loss of plane
<Rokker>
Bornholio: lot more damage to the front
<Rokker>
not official but definitely looks like it
<Bornholio>
new pic?
<Rokker>
ye
<Bornholio>
Sgt Cordova got himself a permanent nickname today, something like Flippy or Lucky
<Rokker>
Bornholio: I'm fucking pissed
<Rokker>
Saturday tbirds are cancelled
<Bornholio>
I can imagine
<Rokker>
you have spare planes for a reason u bastards
<Bornholio>
at least the airshow goes on
<Rokker>
why would I even go to see anything other than the pride and joy of the USAF
<Bornholio>
lol
<Rokker>
an f-35 which last I checked is also grounded?
<Rokker>
a bone, which I can see at the museum?
<Rokker>
booooo
<Bornholio>
.shrug thunderbirds will be parked accessable at least?
<Rokker>
no wait
<Rokker>
f-35 grounding was only for one wing?
<Rokker>
Bornholio: you don't understand, the dayton air show was fucking amazing when I was a kid
<Rokker>
and lately it's just been so mehhhhhhh
<Rokker>
without the tbirds it's super meh
<Probus>
Seeing a bone and feeling a bone are two totally different things Rokker.
<Bornholio>
the new aircaft costs are so high that they have half orr less in service now
<Rokker>
Probus: lenny
<Bornholio>
Allways loved heading to green flag and getting more shacks with our Buffs on unguided munitions than the B1's with guided
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<Pap>
o/
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<KevinStarwaster>
huh... so von Braun wrote a novel about the colonization of Mars? And the leader of the Martian government was known as.... The Elon? whaaa?
<Pap>
CobaltWolf: your stuff is looking phenomenal
<NathanKell|WORK>
Does anyone know why the Agena tank section is narrower in diameter than both the interstage mount ring and the PLF base? As seen in that pic
<Pap>
Would you like me to convert your names for you?
<stratochief>
NathanKell|WORK: which pic? cobalt's, I assume?
<stratochief>
Pap: and I assume you're addressing CobaltWolf?
<NathanKell|WORK>
what you posted
<NathanKell|WORK>
stratochief:
<Pap>
yes I was
<NathanKell|WORK>
CobaltWolf: did an amazing job of modeling the real thing, as usual :)
<stratochief>
NathanKell|WORK: the angry gator I posted wasn't actually an agena target, it was the one off substitute
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yes, GATV did not (IIRC) have the PLF ring. I'm talking about regular Agena.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Your pic was of a standard Agena and thus with standard fairings (that failed to sep, causing the Angry Alligator)
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: I assume it is just because it was supposed to be the tank support that would normally have a boattail cover, right?
<NathanKell|WORK>
For Centaur it makes sense because of the insulation panels. But why would Agena have insulation or fairings over its tanks?
<NathanKell|WORK>
And if not, why were the tanks not full width?
<Pap>
<---- No clue
<Pap>
@NathanKell|WORK: Did you change the name of the 1 kN thruster?
<stratochief>
NathanKell|WORK: I'm unsure what you're refering to. in the spacereview pic you posted, do you mean the ring around the back (left guy holding), or right behind the head of the second guy?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Both rings
<NathanKell|WORK>
The interstage fairing mounts to the aft ring and the PLF to the forward ring
<NathanKell|WORK>
Meaning that, when everything is mounted, the tank is 'shrunken in', visibly.
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<stratochief>
to me, the rings appear tob e holding the tank in place