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<leudaimon> o/
<Qboid> leudaimon: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [27.06.2017 02:21:53]: "when you use tell, don't add spaces after the comma, otherwise not everyone will get the message"
<Qboid> leudaimon: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [27.06.2017 02:22:35]: "and i'm going to make it so you can add and remove science containers on the fly, but that might not make it into pre-1.3 releases"
<leudaimon> hey rsparkyc! yeah, I was thinking in just adding this for my playthrough, and maybe make a PR for the 1.2.2 branch... I'm aware of this more elegant solution of adding the science container as a toggleble
<Starwaster> NathanKell: "I didn't have time to make my body lift behave better so I cheated"
<Starwaster> CHEATER!!!!
<Agathorn> NathanKell|Twitch: streaming at 5pm? You Valve guys are such slackers. Probably kick off at 4pm after a long lunch.
<Agathorn> No wonder HL3 never gets done
* Agathorn still has an agonizing 15 minutes before he can go home
<NathanKell|Twitch> ^_^
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<github> [RP-0] leudaimon opened pull request #711: Add a centaur-like upper stage avionics (master...patch-2) https://git.io/vQc07
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<NathanKell|Twitch> Pap: Magico released a fix
<NathanKell|Twitch> \o/
<NathanKell|Twitch> Bornholio
<NathanKell|Twitch> et al
<NathanKell|Twitch> we need to try and report back :)
<Bornholio> Drama Queen IX makes orbit 154x192km , ok i'll jump over and test
<NathanKell|Twitch> spacedock is where it uploaded
<NathanKell|Twitch> there's a 1.3.5.7 on spacedock
<NathanKell|Twitch> that's what I got
<NathanKell|Twitch> the backport build should be identical I'd think, but I played safe
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<leudaimon> NathanKell|Twitch, how did you cheat-complete the communications array contract? Even with 2 dishes in each sat as well as a omni, I had no success
<Bornholio> 4x4km Commu-16 omni's at 4kkm no cheating :P
<leudaimon> I have 2 dishes in each sat, at 15Mm, there is no way it shouldn't complete
<Bornholio> coverage?
<leudaimon> lots of stuff... apparently it doesn't recognize my vessels for direct links, neither coverage
<Bornholio> passed level 4-5 r&D
<NathanKell|Twitch> leudaimon: debug menu, contracts, active, click complete on the contract
<leudaimon> ah, ok
<Bornholio> fully upgraded pad(7) and R&D(7) no appearent problems
<leudaimon> how many VAB tiers are there in the new tech tree build
<leudaimon> ?
<NathanKell|Twitch> leudaimon: 3
<NathanKell|Twitch> I only touched pad/runway and R&D in terms of levels
<Bornholio> proper build tonnage in india (20t) level 1 pad
<NathanKell|Twitch> pad/runway and r&d are now 7 tiers, everything else still 3
<NathanKell|Twitch> thanks to Sarbian updating CBK I'm going to make size limits depend on the VAB tho instead of pad, with mass still depend on pad
<NathanKell|Twitch> my guess is dishes are borked in CC's coverage thing
<NathanKell|Twitch> omnis seem fine
<leudaimon> ah, that will be nice... I thought it was 5 tiers for the R&D
<Bornholio> Any other testing it needs NK?
<NathanKell|Twitch> For KCT? Nope IMO we're golden
<NathanKell|Twitch> so I closed the issue
<Bornholio> good deal.
<Pap> \o/ magico13 is the bets!
<Pap> s/bets/best
<Qboid> Pap meant to say: \o/ magico13 is the best!
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<taniwha> NathanKell|AFK: I'm tempted to give KSCS a major overhaul
<taniwha> which, of course, will have to wait :/
<lamont> how much TWR in sep motor staging is necessary to ullage?
<Bornholio> 0.5 works most of the time, usually keep it closer to .7 and stretch out a couple of seconds to make sure i catch it
<lamont> i seem to be using 0.36 and 0.9s
<Bornholio> I've gone as low as .3 without problems
<taniwha> it really depends on how quickly you want to ullage
<lamont> well i’m also not coasting for any period and MJ is autostaging so its pretty ullaged just from the booster
<lamont> is there a way to tell if an engine is shielded so it will not have any thrust? (and i’m not sure i’m using ‘shielded’ correctly, i don’t mean from the airstream, i mean blocked by a collider of other parts…)
<Bornholio> the thrust offset data in the configs, outside that no idea
<Bornholio> plume doesn't mean that its blocked :(
<acharles> lamont: Can you get vesselState.currentThrustAccel for each stage?
<lamont> i want to know before it stages that it is a hotstage and prevent MJ from firing it
<lamont> so it wouldn’t have any currentThrust at that point
<lamont> (i’m thinking about a totally different problem)
<acharles> I know. I was asking to solve another problem.
<lamont> ah yeah you don't
<lamont> you can pull or derive that from vacStats tho
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<lamont> although currentThrustAccel is Agathorn-Aware while vacStats i think is not
<acharles> How to get get accel from the vacstats?
<acharles> I wish the code had the units for each stat in comments
<xShadowx> lol @ 'os Agathorn-Aware'
<lamont> “API responds to Agathorn”
<acharles> Best/Worse personification ever, depending on perspective.
<lamont> maxAccel is in there, you can compute ‘minAccel’ similarly (which would be currentAccel) for the current burning stage...
<acharles> startThrust/startMass
<acharles> Assume thrust is constant
<acharles> lamont: updated the PR
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<lamont> the PEG algorithm assumes constant thrust (prolly one reason why its ‘exoatmospheric’ only)
<acharles> It doesn’t assume constant thrust across stages.
<lamont> right
<acharles> you have ‘f_r = A + C’ but in the paper, it is ‘f_r = f_r + fd_r * dt’…
<acharles> Are those the same?
<lamont> see eq 22b
<acharles> Ah, makes sense.
<acharles> Perhaps it’d be better to say that it doesn’t not make sense.
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<leudaimon> is there any bug with reentries and realchutes?
<leudaimon> I have a chute inside the heatshield, but it is exploding on reentry as if there were no heatshield
<Bornholio> might be FAR
<Bornholio> Ferram was talking about that during NK's twitch feed
<leudaimon> erm, there I go disabling maxtemp again
<Bornholio> can you put something less delicate between them?
<leudaimon> now that I'm reentering with my lunar samples, no
<Bornholio> yup
<leudaimon> for future crafts, definitely
<Bornholio> I'm a fan of the storage bays & tweakscale, even chutes in them, open doors for more drag then open chutes
<NathanKell|AFK> Rc bug
<NathanKell|AFK> RC bug leudaimon
<leudaimon> yeah, what I thought
<NathanKell|AFK> Drag cube not being recomputed
<leudaimon> I might do another lunar sample mission, because I lost the bio samples by pure stupidity, but I want to complete this one
<NathanKell|AFK> Hit me in lunar sample return
<taniwha> NathanKell|AFK: did you see my comment about KSCS?
<Bornholio> NathanKell is RC's material something RP-0 can get at? Thinking we should limit Kevlar to quite a bit later in tech tree
<leudaimon> NathanKell|AFK, it was actually easier to squeeze the delta-v for that than I thought, especially after getting TL2 for the RCS bipropellants
<leudaimon> finished with 700m/s to spare
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<NathanKell> o/
<NathanKell> taniwha: Yep, saw (but was eating)
<taniwha> ok
<NathanKell> leudaimon: How heavy were you at liftoff?
<github> [RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQc6j
<github> RP-0/Pap-TechTree 0769942 NathanKell: X-15/Spaceplane parts finish rejigger. @pap1723 can you update the XLS?
<NathanKell> leudaimon: something like 500t probably?
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<leudaimon> 400T
<leudaimon> NathanKell|Twitch ^
<NathanKell|Twitch> Wow, nice!
<NathanKell|Twitch> staged ftw
<leudaimon> 4RD253, 2NK9Vs, 211D33
<NathanKell|Twitch> Ah, did do it like that then
<leudaimon> yep, what saved me were the proc. avionics
<NathanKell|Twitch> yep, figured they would
<NathanKell|Twitch> I paid heavily for not using 'em
<NathanKell|Twitch> did you do separate TEI stage or just ascent+TEI in one?
<NathanKell|Twitch> also, lamont, acharles do you have a compiled version without the logspam? please? :)
<leudaimon> my TLI stage (the 11D33s) also made orbital insertion into LLO
<NathanKell|Twitch> ahhh yeah
<leudaimon> then I had a Lunar descent stage that also took me half way back into orbit, and then the final stage finished the orbit and made the transfer
<NathanKell|Twitch> big savinigs there
<NathanKell|Twitch> yep, makes sense
<leudaimon> I put all science into the descent stage
<leudaimon> and had a bucket with only a parachute and heatshield for reentry, separate from the ascent/transfer stage
<leudaimon> even took a bio sample, but ruined it along the way somehow
<acharles> NathanKell|Twitch: I have one but it’s only the dll and it has other changes as well, so I’m not sure whether it might have bugs.
<NathanKell|Twitch> I need only the dll ever :)
<NathanKell|Twitch> other changes are fine
<lamont> ^ you definitely want the change i just pushed to fix launch wiggles
<acharles> ah, that’s good. I wasn’t sure about the best way to get him the dll
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<NathanKell|Twitch> lamont: Awesome! Will try right after this reentry fai^H^H^Hsucceeds
<lamont> yeah see if you can spot where i forgot about the oeberth effect
<NathanKell|Twitch> :)
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<NathanKell|Twitch> Pap|Away: I am not aware of any way RC's material selection can be keyed to tech
<NathanKell|Twitch> sorry, that was to Bornholio
<NathanKell|Twitch> !tell Born* I am not aware of any way RC's material selection can be keyed to tech
<Qboid> NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<github> [RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQcyj
<github> RP-0/Pap-TechTree e3bfffc NathanKell: Basic Capsules requires early flight control not stability
<NathanKell|AWAY> !tell Pap* I think we need to shift RCS TL2 way forward (to 1964 or so at the least)
<Qboid> NathanKell|AWAY: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<xShadowx> what the......"with about 500 satellites orbiting earth, we have reached the peak of the technology, just 60 years after sputnik"
<xShadowx> i dont believe we only got 500 sats :P
<xShadowx> google says 2,271, didn't think that low still but okie :|
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<Hypergolic_Skunk> yay! KCT fix for 4-tier career! gonna test it soon... http://magico13.net:8080/job/Kerbal%20Construction%20Time%201.2.2%20Backports/
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<Hypergolic_Skunk> nope, encountering a weird interface glitch
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<Pap> o/
<Qboid> Pap: NathanKell|AWAY left a message for you in #RO [28.06.2017 07:28:56]: "I think we need to shift RCS TL2 way forward (to 1964 or so at the least)"
<Hypergolic_Skunk> o/
<Pap> Hypergolic_Skunk: Bornholio tested the new version of KCT and said it worked great
<Hypergolic_Skunk> yeah, I wanted to ask him about that.. whether he can spend upgrade points
<Hypergolic_Skunk> if yes, then my install is having issues.. again :D
<Hypergolic_Skunk> which would be weird, because this didnt happen with the previous KCT version
<Pap> Getting an RO install 100% working is a difficult ass task
<Hypergolic_Skunk> yep :D
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<Pap> 22222
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<Bornholio> yeah for Magico13, CKAN already posting 1.3.5.7 that fixes hihger levels of R&D and Pad
<Qboid> Bornholio: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [28.06.2017 06:16:23]: "I am not aware of any way RC's material selection can be keyed to tech"
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<Hypergolic_Skunk> yep, fixed now
<Hypergolic_Skunk> I had the old magicore.dll in the gamedata-folder, but the newest version has its own folder :)
<Pap> \o/
<Hypergolic_Skunk> <--- doofus
<Pap> ^^ not necessarily, those floating .dll files are not easy to see (which is why that is not how basically anything but MM is done)
<Hypergolic_Skunk> still, i should have noticed that. I generally try to bother anyone in here as little as possible :p unless of course they have the audacity to place the landing gear high up in the tech-tree!
<Hypergolic_Skunk> s /gear /legs
<Pap> That's why this time, I put the Flight nodes on the very top of the tree. To show you that they are the most important Hypergolic_Skunk (or to hide them because they are useless) ;)
<Hypergolic_Skunk> <3
<xShadowx> landing...gear....why would anyone want to land
<xShadowx> goto space n stay there <3
<xShadowx> better view
<Hypergolic_Skunk> gonna call me a well-dweller next? :D
<xShadowx> nah i just woke up 20 sec ago, cant remember all the scifi names i should call you yet :P
<xShadowx> Pap: tree finished to a playable state? rumors are i might find ksp time this weekend :D
<Bornholio> YES
<xShadowx> :D
<Bornholio> loud enough
<Bornholio> make sure you get both ro and rp-0 branches though
<xShadowx> ah right special brnches for the tree wasnt it?
<Bornholio> I did installs via CKAN and then patched both. DRE needs 7.6.0 manually installed to avoid burning kerbals or the patch
<xShadowx> also is the tree going to replace the current or both be used?o.O
<Bornholio> its Jinormous complete replace, few icons reused
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<xShadowx> nono i know how trees work/install/replace, i mean playabiolity options, will RO be switching to using this new one, or offering a choice to use old or new?
<Pap> xShadowx: my understanding is that the new tree will be the only option after the next release
<xShadowx> well...ksp starts, tree is there, gotta wait til weekend for time tho :( ty <3
<Starwaster> What are the advantages of using ModuleResourceConverter over ModuleGenerator?
<Starwaster> if any?
<xShadowx> the former touches the heat system, the latter atleast didnt used to dunno if changed
<Bornholio> The converters requires a reource to make the new one from, resource is much more complicated though. generating heat and having stop and start functions, can use specialist bonuses and have efficiency set . Generator just makes resource at fixed rate when on
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<Starwaster> bornholio: generators can also be started and stopped. They do that too. And as you say, don't generate heat.
<Starwaster> ok thanks
<Bornholio> starwaster IIRC they can't call start/stop functions, but yes they can either start/stop or be always on.
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<Pap> !tell NathanKell* I updated the sidebar of the RSS Subreddit. Nothing major, just what we talked about (from my memory at least)
<Qboid> Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap> Also, to those of you that don't know, there is an official Discord, it just obviously is not as busy / used as this IRC
<Pap> Discrod link: https://discord.gg/3xMtyBg
<Pap> s/Discrod/Discord
<Qboid> Pap meant to say: Discord link: https://discord.gg/3xMtyBg
<Pap> !tell NathanKell Discord link: https://discord.gg/3xMtyBg
<Qboid> Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap> !tell stratochief Discord link: https://discord.gg/3xMtyBg
<Qboid> Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Rokker> Pap: why u no ping me with discord :(
<Pap> Rokker: Because I knew you were online and around so you would see it without a ping ;)
<Rokker> Pap: :(
<Rokker> i feel left out
<Pap> !tell Rokker Discord Link: https://discord.gg/3xMtyBg
<Qboid> Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Rokker> no u won't qboid
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<Bornholio> can I use a cyrllic character in a part config description?
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<soundnfury> Bornholio: I doubt it, I used an æ and an Í in an agency description and they displayed as replacement characters
<soundnfury> wouldn't surprise me if Unity (and/or C#) cannot into Unicode
<Bornholio> ok dang unity!
<Bornholio> I imagine 1.3 can but....
<soundnfury> hmm, yeah probably
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<UmbralRaptor> Watch it be UTF-16, instead of UTF-8.
<Bornholio> lol
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<Probus> o/ I think I may have asked this before, but does anyone know of a mod that is similar to Haystack?
<Pap> not that I know of Probus
<Pap> However, I use a home grown (while not as nice) of a solution. I have a custom KER window with Targeting information. You can easily set a craft as your target and switch to it
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<regex> Man, Haystack, been forever since I heard that...
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<blowfish> Ariane V launch in a few minutes
<Pap> Damn, that thing JUMPS off the pad
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<blowfish> yeah, any idea what the liftoff TWR is?
<blowfish> is it just me or were those fairings ... flapping as they fell away?
<regex> Ariane V leaps off the pad and then crawls to orbit
<regex> IIRC they've always flapped.
<blowfish> I guess there's no reason for them to be perfectly rigid
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<blowfish> looks like the core is still burning and it's already fallen past apogee
<blowfish> dropped back down to 156 km briefly ... I guess you can go low if you're not stopping in a parking orbit
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<Pap> Bornholio: are you around?
<Bornholio> yes
<Bornholio> just about to make dinner
<Pap> Aircraft branch icons, any ideas on what we should do there?
<Bornholio> some thoughts be let me organize them after dinner
<Bornholio> but
<Pap> awesome!
<Sarbian> NathanKell|AWAY (and other) MM principia edition : https://www.dropbox.com/s/zua4xud8d8x66uc/ModuleManager.dll?dl=0
<blowfish> :o
<Sarbian> Try it blowfish ;)
<blowfish> at work now, so later
<blowfish> also haven't touched Principia, so it'll be quite a learning experience
<Sarbian> just don't launch while drinking liquid ;)
<Sarbian> You don't need principia. It s just a MM with some principia related loading screen fun ;)
<egg|anbo|egg> Sarbian: ... we should define an API with entry points into our integrators so you can build that simulation on top of principia
<Sarbian> lol
<egg|anbo|egg> that way when you have MM+principia you get principiacats \o/
<egg|anbo|egg> Sarbian: and you can render them in whatever reference frame you want \o/
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<Bornholio> pap, first node https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/history/HistoricAircraft/X-Planes/popups/ x1, then Mig-19, Then X-3, X-15 for Hypersonic(59), Dasault Mirage IV forhigh Speed (59)
<Bornholio> Adv. jet engine (concorde) its a bit early but in that node, prototype spaceplanes (the NASA lifting body aircraft or Dyna soar), Mature Turbofans SR-71, Eff. Spaceplanes (STS)
<Bornholio> Refined Turbofans, (Either Harrier or F-18 or SU-27), Space Shuttles (Buran)
<blowfish> Olympus 583 was a bit after J58
<Bornholio> yup but timeperiods are streched in that part of the tree
<Bornholio> pap after that it all starts to get notional , except maybe x-37 for the next spaceplane
<Bornholio> Think they should all be tilted towards the righ top corner
<Bornholio> all thats just me blathering. someone else needs to argue a view
<Bornholio> maybe A-12/sr-71 should be in Aje and Concorde in mature Turbofans
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<Probus> Thanks Pap, that's a good idea.
<Agathorn> Found a document that actually shows the locations of the cameras used for short, medium, and longe range video of the shuttle launches :D
<Probus> Nice Agathorn, can you share it?
<Agathorn> sure