<Qboid>
leudaimon: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [27.06.2017 02:21:53]: "when you use tell, don't add spaces after the comma, otherwise not everyone will get the message"
<Qboid>
leudaimon: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [27.06.2017 02:22:35]: "and i'm going to make it so you can add and remove science containers on the fly, but that might not make it into pre-1.3 releases"
<leudaimon>
hey rsparkyc! yeah, I was thinking in just adding this for my playthrough, and maybe make a PR for the 1.2.2 branch... I'm aware of this more elegant solution of adding the science container as a toggleble
<Starwaster>
NathanKell: "I didn't have time to make my body lift behave better so I cheated"
<Starwaster>
CHEATER!!!!
<Agathorn>
NathanKell|Twitch: streaming at 5pm? You Valve guys are such slackers. Probably kick off at 4pm after a long lunch.
<Agathorn>
No wonder HL3 never gets done
* Agathorn
still has an agonizing 15 minutes before he can go home
<NathanKell|Twitch>
there's a 1.3.5.7 on spacedock
<NathanKell|Twitch>
that's what I got
<NathanKell|Twitch>
the backport build should be identical I'd think, but I played safe
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<leudaimon>
NathanKell|Twitch, how did you cheat-complete the communications array contract? Even with 2 dishes in each sat as well as a omni, I had no success
<Bornholio>
4x4km Commu-16 omni's at 4kkm no cheating :P
<leudaimon>
I have 2 dishes in each sat, at 15Mm, there is no way it shouldn't complete
<Bornholio>
coverage?
<leudaimon>
lots of stuff... apparently it doesn't recognize my vessels for direct links, neither coverage
<Bornholio>
passed level 4-5 r&D
<NathanKell|Twitch>
leudaimon: debug menu, contracts, active, click complete on the contract
<leudaimon>
ah, ok
<Bornholio>
fully upgraded pad(7) and R&D(7) no appearent problems
<leudaimon>
how many VAB tiers are there in the new tech tree build
<leudaimon>
?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
leudaimon: 3
<NathanKell|Twitch>
I only touched pad/runway and R&D in terms of levels
<Bornholio>
proper build tonnage in india (20t) level 1 pad
<NathanKell|Twitch>
pad/runway and r&d are now 7 tiers, everything else still 3
<NathanKell|Twitch>
thanks to Sarbian updating CBK I'm going to make size limits depend on the VAB tho instead of pad, with mass still depend on pad
<NathanKell|Twitch>
my guess is dishes are borked in CC's coverage thing
<NathanKell|Twitch>
omnis seem fine
<leudaimon>
ah, that will be nice... I thought it was 5 tiers for the R&D
<Bornholio>
Any other testing it needs NK?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
For KCT? Nope IMO we're golden
<NathanKell|Twitch>
so I closed the issue
<Bornholio>
good deal.
<Pap>
\o/ magico13 is the bets!
<Pap>
s/bets/best
<Qboid>
Pap meant to say: \o/ magico13 is the best!
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<taniwha>
NathanKell|AFK: I'm tempted to give KSCS a major overhaul
<taniwha>
which, of course, will have to wait :/
<lamont>
how much TWR in sep motor staging is necessary to ullage?
<Bornholio>
0.5 works most of the time, usually keep it closer to .7 and stretch out a couple of seconds to make sure i catch it
<lamont>
i seem to be using 0.36 and 0.9s
<Bornholio>
I've gone as low as .3 without problems
<taniwha>
it really depends on how quickly you want to ullage
<lamont>
well i’m also not coasting for any period and MJ is autostaging so its pretty ullaged just from the booster
<lamont>
is there a way to tell if an engine is shielded so it will not have any thrust? (and i’m not sure i’m using ‘shielded’ correctly, i don’t mean from the airstream, i mean blocked by a collider of other parts…)
<Bornholio>
the thrust offset data in the configs, outside that no idea
<Bornholio>
plume doesn't mean that its blocked :(
<acharles>
lamont: Can you get vesselState.currentThrustAccel for each stage?
<lamont>
i want to know before it stages that it is a hotstage and prevent MJ from firing it
<lamont>
so it wouldn’t have any currentThrust at that point
<lamont>
(i’m thinking about a totally different problem)
<acharles>
I know. I was asking to solve another problem.
<lamont>
ah yeah you don't
<lamont>
you can pull or derive that from vacStats tho
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<lamont>
although currentThrustAccel is Agathorn-Aware while vacStats i think is not
<acharles>
How to get get accel from the vacstats?
<acharles>
I wish the code had the units for each stat in comments
<xShadowx>
lol @ 'os Agathorn-Aware'
<lamont>
“API responds to Agathorn”
<acharles>
Best/Worse personification ever, depending on perspective.
<lamont>
maxAccel is in there, you can compute ‘minAccel’ similarly (which would be currentAccel) for the current burning stage...
<acharles>
startThrust/startMass
<acharles>
Assume thrust is constant
<acharles>
lamont: updated the PR
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<lamont>
the PEG algorithm assumes constant thrust (prolly one reason why its ‘exoatmospheric’ only)
<acharles>
It doesn’t assume constant thrust across stages.
<lamont>
right
<acharles>
you have ‘f_r = A + C’ but in the paper, it is ‘f_r = f_r + fd_r * dt’…
<acharles>
Are those the same?
<lamont>
see eq 22b
<acharles>
Ah, makes sense.
<acharles>
Perhaps it’d be better to say that it doesn’t not make sense.
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<leudaimon>
is there any bug with reentries and realchutes?
<leudaimon>
I have a chute inside the heatshield, but it is exploding on reentry as if there were no heatshield
<Bornholio>
might be FAR
<Bornholio>
Ferram was talking about that during NK's twitch feed
<leudaimon>
erm, there I go disabling maxtemp again
<Bornholio>
can you put something less delicate between them?
<leudaimon>
now that I'm reentering with my lunar samples, no
<Bornholio>
yup
<leudaimon>
for future crafts, definitely
<Bornholio>
I'm a fan of the storage bays & tweakscale, even chutes in them, open doors for more drag then open chutes
<NathanKell|AFK>
Rc bug
<NathanKell|AFK>
RC bug leudaimon
<leudaimon>
yeah, what I thought
<NathanKell|AFK>
Drag cube not being recomputed
<leudaimon>
I might do another lunar sample mission, because I lost the bio samples by pure stupidity, but I want to complete this one
<NathanKell|AFK>
Hit me in lunar sample return
<taniwha>
NathanKell|AFK: did you see my comment about KSCS?
<Bornholio>
NathanKell is RC's material something RP-0 can get at? Thinking we should limit Kevlar to quite a bit later in tech tree
<leudaimon>
NathanKell|AFK, it was actually easier to squeeze the delta-v for that than I thought, especially after getting TL2 for the RCS bipropellants
<leudaimon>
finished with 700m/s to spare
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<NathanKell>
o/
<NathanKell>
taniwha: Yep, saw (but was eating)
<taniwha>
ok
<NathanKell>
leudaimon: How heavy were you at liftoff?
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQc6j
<github>
RP-0/Pap-TechTree 0769942 NathanKell: X-15/Spaceplane parts finish rejigger. @pap1723 can you update the XLS?
<NathanKell>
leudaimon: something like 500t probably?
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<leudaimon>
400T
<leudaimon>
NathanKell|Twitch ^
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Wow, nice!
<NathanKell|Twitch>
staged ftw
<leudaimon>
4RD253, 2NK9Vs, 211D33
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Ah, did do it like that then
<leudaimon>
yep, what saved me were the proc. avionics
<NathanKell|Twitch>
yep, figured they would
<NathanKell|Twitch>
I paid heavily for not using 'em
<NathanKell|Twitch>
did you do separate TEI stage or just ascent+TEI in one?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
also, lamont, acharles do you have a compiled version without the logspam? please? :)
<leudaimon>
my TLI stage (the 11D33s) also made orbital insertion into LLO
<NathanKell|Twitch>
ahhh yeah
<leudaimon>
then I had a Lunar descent stage that also took me half way back into orbit, and then the final stage finished the orbit and made the transfer
<NathanKell|Twitch>
big savinigs there
<NathanKell|Twitch>
yep, makes sense
<leudaimon>
I put all science into the descent stage
<leudaimon>
and had a bucket with only a parachute and heatshield for reentry, separate from the ascent/transfer stage
<leudaimon>
even took a bio sample, but ruined it along the way somehow
<acharles>
NathanKell|Twitch: I have one but it’s only the dll and it has other changes as well, so I’m not sure whether it might have bugs.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
nope, encountering a weird interface glitch
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<Pap>
o/
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell|AWAY left a message for you in #RO [28.06.2017 07:28:56]: "I think we need to shift RCS TL2 way forward (to 1964 or so at the least)"
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
o/
<Pap>
Hypergolic_Skunk: Bornholio tested the new version of KCT and said it worked great
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yeah, I wanted to ask him about that.. whether he can spend upgrade points
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
if yes, then my install is having issues.. again :D
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
which would be weird, because this didnt happen with the previous KCT version
<Pap>
Getting an RO install 100% working is a difficult ass task
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yep :D
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<Pap>
22222
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<Bornholio>
yeah for Magico13, CKAN already posting 1.3.5.7 that fixes hihger levels of R&D and Pad
<Qboid>
Bornholio: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [28.06.2017 06:16:23]: "I am not aware of any way RC's material selection can be keyed to tech"
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<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yep, fixed now
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I had the old magicore.dll in the gamedata-folder, but the newest version has its own folder :)
<Pap>
\o/
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
<--- doofus
<Pap>
^^ not necessarily, those floating .dll files are not easy to see (which is why that is not how basically anything but MM is done)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
still, i should have noticed that. I generally try to bother anyone in here as little as possible :p unless of course they have the audacity to place the landing gear high up in the tech-tree!
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
s /gear /legs
<Pap>
That's why this time, I put the Flight nodes on the very top of the tree. To show you that they are the most important Hypergolic_Skunk (or to hide them because they are useless) ;)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
<3
<xShadowx>
landing...gear....why would anyone want to land
<xShadowx>
goto space n stay there <3
<xShadowx>
better view
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
gonna call me a well-dweller next? :D
<xShadowx>
nah i just woke up 20 sec ago, cant remember all the scifi names i should call you yet :P
<xShadowx>
Pap: tree finished to a playable state? rumors are i might find ksp time this weekend :D
<Bornholio>
YES
<xShadowx>
:D
<Bornholio>
loud enough
<Bornholio>
make sure you get both ro and rp-0 branches though
<xShadowx>
ah right special brnches for the tree wasnt it?
<Bornholio>
I did installs via CKAN and then patched both. DRE needs 7.6.0 manually installed to avoid burning kerbals or the patch
<xShadowx>
also is the tree going to replace the current or both be used?o.O
<Bornholio>
its Jinormous complete replace, few icons reused
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<xShadowx>
nono i know how trees work/install/replace, i mean playabiolity options, will RO be switching to using this new one, or offering a choice to use old or new?
<Pap>
xShadowx: my understanding is that the new tree will be the only option after the next release
<xShadowx>
well...ksp starts, tree is there, gotta wait til weekend for time tho :( ty <3
<Starwaster>
What are the advantages of using ModuleResourceConverter over ModuleGenerator?
<Starwaster>
if any?
<xShadowx>
the former touches the heat system, the latter atleast didnt used to dunno if changed
<Bornholio>
The converters requires a reource to make the new one from, resource is much more complicated though. generating heat and having stop and start functions, can use specialist bonuses and have efficiency set . Generator just makes resource at fixed rate when on
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<Starwaster>
bornholio: generators can also be started and stopped. They do that too. And as you say, don't generate heat.
<Starwaster>
ok thanks
<Bornholio>
starwaster IIRC they can't call start/stop functions, but yes they can either start/stop or be always on.
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<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* I updated the sidebar of the RSS Subreddit. Nothing major, just what we talked about (from my memory at least)
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
Also, to those of you that don't know, there is an official Discord, it just obviously is not as busy / used as this IRC
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: I doubt it, I used an æ and an Í in an agency description and they displayed as replacement characters
<soundnfury>
wouldn't surprise me if Unity (and/or C#) cannot into Unicode
<Bornholio>
ok dang unity!
<Bornholio>
I imagine 1.3 can but....
<soundnfury>
hmm, yeah probably
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<UmbralRaptor>
Watch it be UTF-16, instead of UTF-8.
<Bornholio>
lol
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<Probus>
o/ I think I may have asked this before, but does anyone know of a mod that is similar to Haystack?
<Pap>
not that I know of Probus
<Pap>
However, I use a home grown (while not as nice) of a solution. I have a custom KER window with Targeting information. You can easily set a craft as your target and switch to it
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<regex>
Man, Haystack, been forever since I heard that...
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<blowfish>
Ariane V launch in a few minutes
<Pap>
Damn, that thing JUMPS off the pad
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<blowfish>
yeah, any idea what the liftoff TWR is?
<blowfish>
is it just me or were those fairings ... flapping as they fell away?
<regex>
Ariane V leaps off the pad and then crawls to orbit
<regex>
IIRC they've always flapped.
<blowfish>
I guess there's no reason for them to be perfectly rigid
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<blowfish>
looks like the core is still burning and it's already fallen past apogee
<blowfish>
dropped back down to 156 km briefly ... I guess you can go low if you're not stopping in a parking orbit
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<Pap>
Bornholio: are you around?
<Bornholio>
yes
<Bornholio>
just about to make dinner
<Pap>
Aircraft branch icons, any ideas on what we should do there?
<Bornholio>
Adv. jet engine (concorde) its a bit early but in that node, prototype spaceplanes (the NASA lifting body aircraft or Dyna soar), Mature Turbofans SR-71, Eff. Spaceplanes (STS)
<Bornholio>
Refined Turbofans, (Either Harrier or F-18 or SU-27), Space Shuttles (Buran)
<blowfish>
Olympus 583 was a bit after J58
<Bornholio>
yup but timeperiods are streched in that part of the tree
<Bornholio>
pap after that it all starts to get notional , except maybe x-37 for the next spaceplane
<Bornholio>
Think they should all be tilted towards the righ top corner
<Bornholio>
all thats just me blathering. someone else needs to argue a view
<Bornholio>
maybe A-12/sr-71 should be in Aje and Concorde in mature Turbofans
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<Probus>
Thanks Pap, that's a good idea.
<Agathorn>
Found a document that actually shows the locations of the cameras used for short, medium, and longe range video of the shuttle launches :D