<leudaimon>
anybody knows if there is a way to make a MM config to create additional RT ground stations? Given the RSS cfg that adds the ground stations is now a MM cfg I think it might be possible
NathanKell|AFK is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<NathanKell>
leudaimon: Just patch it same way that does?
<leudaimon>
I see only the ones I created with a FINAL pass
<NathanKell>
Your pass needs to run after RSS's/RO's?
<leudaimon>
my original cfg was @RemoteTechSettings:FINAL
<leudaimon>
the RSS one is @RemoteTechSettings:FOR[RealSolarSystem]
<NathanKell>
then yes, AFTER should work. Unless there's a pass that runs later on RO's side, like RO-RemoteTech or something
<leudaimon>
but shouldn't a FINAL work too? (that's a personal cfg, I don't intend to distribute it)
<NathanKell>
oh, then if it's personal, FINAL is fine
<leudaimon>
why would it remove the RSS stations then?
<NathanKell>
Are you replacing the node
<NathanKell>
or deleting and recreating
<NathanKell>
or just patching?
<leudaimon>
I don't know exactly what I'm doing... I just wanna add stations on my custom launch sites... that's what I'm doing
<leudaimon>
@RemoteTechSettings:FINAL
<leudaimon>
{
<leudaimon>
<leudaimon>
GroundStations
<leudaimon>
{
<leudaimon>
STATION
<NathanKell>
So you're adding a second GroundStations node?
<NathanKell>
Try using @GroundStations {}
<NathanKell>
that will add to the existing one
<leudaimon>
oh that's what I messed up!
<leudaimon>
cool
<leudaimon>
as I saw the RSS cfg explicitly removed other nodes, I implied it would add to the existing ones automatically
<leudaimon>
my MM fu is pretty non-existant
<leudaimon>
it worked! thanks a lot NathanKell!
<NathanKell>
:)
<leudaimon>
I used to do that by hand before RT could talk to MM for that, but that's a mess
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<Agathorn>
Evening
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<Pap|Away>
Good evening everyone
Pap|Away is now known as Pap
<xShadowx>
whats so good about it?
<Pap>
It is Saturday, that part is good enough for me
<xShadowx>
everyday is the same for me XD
* xShadowx
has no concept of weekends
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<Pap>
leudaimon: no adding launch sites to Brazil! Against RO/RSS/RP-0 policy
<Agathorn>
development is so sisyphean
<Pap>
Agathorn: how did the stream go earlier?
<Agathorn>
After about a weeks worth of work I finally have a mostly done and working component browser. Now I get to start all over again at the bottom of the hill for a new UI to build stages with :)
<Pap>
Were you more comfortable with it than you worried about being?
<Agathorn>
I got more comfortable as I got into it.. its still a bit akward though because you don't want dead air so its hard to stop and thinkg when you need to
<Agathorn>
The audio wasn't so good though...A lot of time I would be looking down while typing so between my mechanical keyuboard and me not talking into the mic, it can be rather quiet
<Agathorn>
I need to get like a swing arm for my mic to put it up by my mouth
<Pap>
Yeah, I have streamed before, but to actually be good at streaming takes a legitimate setup and sound seems to be one of the most important things
<Pap>
NathanKell: are you around?
<xShadowx>
Pap: nah hes asquare
<Pap>
that-that......
<Pap>
is just terrible
<xShadowx>
XD
<Pap>
:)
<NathanKell>
Pap: Ish
<NathanKell>
sorry, semi afk
<Pap>
np, I wanted you to weigh in on RP-0#1242 when you have the time so we can re-organize the whole thing
<Pap>
RP0#1242
<Pap>
I broke it
<Pap>
RO#1242
<Qboid>
[#1242] title: RO/RP-0 "What is to be done" list | per @dxdy_name's suggestion. This is no roadmap yet; right now it's just a list of everything we can think of that needs doing.... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/issues/1242
<Agathorn>
useless bot
<xShadowx>
coulda sworn he added RP0 alias
<xShadowx>
rp0#1242
<Pap>
Nope, it was a user error
<Pap>
It is an RO issue
<Agathorn>
there is no rp0 1242 :)
<xShadowx>
95% of computer issues exist between the keyboard and the chair :)
<Agathorn>
PEBKAC
<Pap>
xShadowx: it is higher in my case
<Agathorn>
handling the flexability of stage construction is going to be tricky
<Agathorn>
It is easy to see why other games stuck with premade rockets :D
<NathanKell>
Pap: Sorry, doing a bit of work on the weekend, I'll be mentally present shortly
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<rsparkyc>
so, i'm in a bit of an awkward spot, i don't have any mods that i'm working on, and i don't know if any issues that need to be fixed...
<Pap>
rsparkyc: Assembly line mod?
<rsparkyc>
haha
<Pap>
<--runs and ducks for cover
<rsparkyc>
i was actually thinking about that in the shower this morning
<rsparkyc>
no joke
<rsparkyc>
i think it will take a lot more thinking before i tackle that one
<rsparkyc>
perhaps NathanKell will beat me to it :)
<rsparkyc>
at least that way it will be done properly
<Pap>
That makes sense, as long as I planted the seed, I have done my job
<Pap>
lol
<rsparkyc>
Pap, should I try out your RP-0 branch?
<Pap>
rsparkyc: the tech tree isn't really worth it, we are going to be changing that, but the contracts, for sure
<rsparkyc>
as long as the tech tree isn't borken
<rsparkyc>
s/borken/broken
<Qboid>
rsparkyc meant to say: as long as the tech tree isn't broken
<Pap>
Tech Tree is not, it works great fo the most part
<rsparkyc>
i see your fairly behind master, want to pull master in to your branch?
<rsparkyc>
more technically speaking, your master is behind origins master
<rsparkyc>
actually, your not as far back as i thought
<rsparkyc>
looks like just one commit
<Pap>
I'm showing 18 commits ahead, 3 behind
<rsparkyc>
(or one PR, don't know how many commits was in that)
<Pap>
NK, RO#1242 has a lot of information on it and I don't know what has been / has not been done, but I thought it was a good place to start to make a roadmap of future plans?
<Qboid>
[#1242] title: RO/RP-0 "What is to be done" list | per @dxdy_name's suggestion. This is no roadmap yet; right now it's just a list of everything we can think of that needs doing.... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/issues/1242
<NathanKell>
I believe the part pack cataloging has mostly been done. I recall some emails about that from github
<Pap>
Alright rsparkyc I am all up to date, and I added a few more contract updates as well
<NathanKell>
The engines...all are now in global configs so I think that's done by definition
<rsparkyc>
sweet
<NathanKell>
"Go through issues, closing what is no longer relevant." <<< always in progress
<NathanKell>
We still need a better support system I think, and a roadmap
<NathanKell>
has progress been made on using 1.1's vernier support?
<NathanKell>
(and per-axis gimbals)
<LittleJoe>
Would 1.3 be causeing RO on 1.2.2 not to work?
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell created PartUpgradeEngineConfigs (+1 new commit): https://git.io/vHckM
<github>
RealismOverhaul/PartUpgradeEngineConfigs 76c4847 NathanKell: Add part upgrade for engine configs proof of concept...
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell opened pull request #1654: Add part upgrade for engine configs proof of concept (master...PartUpgradeEngineConfigs) https://git.io/vHckD
<travis-ci>
Add part upgrade for engine configs proof of concept
<lamont>
(i haven’t tested it much at all, but i get the menu, so principia.so should be loading)
<NathanKell>
hope I haven't lost my MM fu. Note: that is currently targeted for a TestFlight config but you can move the *@PARTUPGRADE line to the appropriate CONFIG block in the engine configger rather than in the testflight patches section.
<rsparkyc>
LittleJoe: the version of RO isn't out of date, your version of KSP is just too up to date
<NathanKell>
^
<Pap>
Alright NathanKell I'll look at that tomorrow, time for some quality time with my wife, all have a good night!
<rsparkyc>
later Pap
<rsparkyc>
about to start a new career with your RP-0 branch
<rsparkyc>
will let you know how it goes
<Pap>
sounds good rsparkyc
<NathanKell>
rsparkyc: I'll try to do the launch pad stuff tonight so we can both test with that
<NathanKell>
for now, pretend you have a max of 20t :)
<rsparkyc>
sounds good :)
<Pap>
I found science not to be the issue once you can go Interplanetary, for me it was money holding me back
Pap is now known as Pap|Goodnight
<NathanKell>
(idea was 20/50/150/300/800/1500/3000/unlimited, IIRC--much more progression)
<rsparkyc>
cool
<NathanKell>
I also must away, but to nomz
<NathanKell>
o/
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|AFK
<rsparkyc>
i gotta wonder what you're launching if you're over 3000, that's bigger than the saturn V
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<LittleJoe>
I can't for RO-0 to hit the "consumer market"
<LittleJoe>
just launching RO in sandbox now...
<rsparkyc>
you can pull down one of the branches and have a working RP-0
<LittleJoe>
"This is hard" *LittleJoe Playing RO for the first time*
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<KevinStarwaster>
at that range you can really see the 3D aspect of its layers... until now, even our best shots of Jupiter look like a flat textured ball
<KevinStarwaster>
I want our gas giants in RSS (or even just stock) to look layered
<rsparkyc>
ahh, you playing RO for the first time? i would totally recommend RP-0 then
<leudaimon>
rsparkyc, actually Brazil, Alcantara launch center
<rsparkyc>
lamont, you haven't pulled up the new principia with RO/RP-0, have you?
<lamont>
no, i did the barest flame test with an otherwise stock KSP
<stratochief|away>
rsparkyc: "This time, history doesn't end at 3000T. It is only beginning" RP-0 2017
<xShadowx>
rsparkyc: what? people dont play ksp, people only mod ksp :)
<stratochief|away>
there is some amazing modern/near future stuff to be played/added to KSP. for now, I focus on ISRU and Mars
<Agathorn>
Is it common or uncommon for tanks in a stage to have RCS for manuevers or ullage?
<stratochief|away>
Agathorn: for an upper stage, not uncommon. Centaur and DCSS have RCS to maneuver, ullage
<Agathorn>
It isn't something i'm finding noted when researching so i'm not sure
<Agathorn>
and pretty much unheard of for boosters that don't do whacky things like landing?
<stratochief|away>
for mid-stage, (ie. S-II) it is a bit more common to have solid motors to ullage. or, to hot-stage like Titan II and all that is soviet does
<stratochief|away>
what is unheard of for boosters that don't land?
stratochief|away is now known as stratochief
<Agathorn>
rcs
<stratochief>
ahh, yeah. same with hyper/supersonic grid-fins :P
<Agathorn>
I mean it wouldn't serve any purpose in a booster except for the F9
<stratochief>
I can't think of a first stage that has RCS, other than Falcon 9. technically the Atlas core had verniers, but that was for fine-tuning the final trajectory after all other engines had been shut down
<stratochief>
gotta hit every Ruskie
<stratochief>
KevinStarwaster: I look forward to all the great Jupiter footage
<Agathorn>
btw stratochief not sure if you saw but I did a dev livestream this afternoon
<Agathorn>
it is on YouTube now
<stratochief>
Agathorn: I missed it live, yeah. I'll catch it in post :P
<Agathorn>
May not be something you are interested in. Not sure
<Agathorn>
if you like seeing the suasgae made *shrug*
<stratochief>
was it UI fiddling? still something I'm interested in watching in the background, at the least
<stratochief>
seeing the sausage made gives me a good idea of what suggestions are reasonable, and which are nieve/useless
<Agathorn>
god I don't know how i'm going to manage an Atlas
<stratochief>
how so?
<Agathorn>
well its a rather complex rocket :)
<Agathorn>
that whole half stage nonsense
<stratochief>
I can help with the math; we talked about how partial staging works about a week ago, IIRC
<Agathorn>
how do you even calculate dV for such a thing.. I think i'll have to hard code a time for staging I guess
<stratochief>
similar for anything with solid boosters
<stratochief>
yeah, exactly. you'll have to calculate/estimate times for staging
<Agathorn>
Boosters are easy in comparison because they burn out and seperate
<stratochief>
which for historical craft are recorded, and you could peg them to a calculated condition (like, half-staging when acceleration = 6.5G)
<Agathorn>
hmm interesting
<Agathorn>
didn't think about that
<Agathorn>
well anyway won't be in my first pass :)
<stratochief>
IIRC, staging at ~6.5G is about what they always did anyway
<Agathorn>
stickign with the simplest rockets I can find for this initial workup
<stratochief>
which means it retains the boosters longer for heavy upper stages, like Centaur
<stratochief>
yeah, entirely fair. like I said, I can help with the rocket math for the Atlas
<stratochief>
by boosters, I mean the 2 larger engines on Atlas
<Agathorn>
yeah I figured
<stratochief>
calculating for something like the R-7 sputnik will give you leg up towards the atlast Calc
<stratochief>
*Atlas calc
<Agathorn>
Are there certain used patterns when it comes to clustering engines?
<stratochief>
8, like the Saturn IB. 2, like the Titan II. 5, like the Saturn V
<stratochief>
well, technically the Titan II first stage is 1 'engine', 2 nozzles. like the R-7 engines are 1 engine, 4 nozzles
<Agathorn>
sorry I don't mean engine counts, I mean how the engines are laid out
<Agathorn>
like the pettern if you were to look at them directly from the bottom
<stratochief>
ahh. well, you can look at how the examples I just stated are layed out. pretty obvious patterns
<UmbralRaptor>
Incidentally, Atlas V booster layouts are not very symmetric.
<stratochief>
if you download SSTU, even just try it on stock, it gives you common cluster patterns, and even a few that were considered by not done (like a Saturn V first stage with 6 intead of 5)
<stratochief>
yeah, SRB attachment is sometimes odd, because you can't attach one to a fuel line
<Agathorn>
When "Custom Tank Design" option is selected, the section below that becomes available and the "Select a Tank" button would change to "Save Tank Design"
<stratochief>
B787_300: where'd you get/make that?
<stratochief>
Agathorn: will it provide composite info? for example, if I select an engine, I then want to know what the stage TWR and/or burn time will be
<Agathorn>
not sure what you mean by "composite" but as you select the data above, the properties at the bottom would update
<stratochief>
B787_300: 3D print? looks shiny for plastic
<B787_300>
stratochief: so that model is a V2 inspired design and is a common test print for big printers
<B787_300>
and it is silver PLA
<stratochief>
B787_300: ahh, cool!
<B787_300>
so i would be a bit shinier
<Agathorn>
stratochief: oh right I think you are just pointing ouit i'm missing info :)
<stratochief>
Agathorn: right
<Agathorn>
I can extend that down and add some more data
<Agathorn>
I just added what was off the top of my headf
<stratochief>
I don't think the ratio is particularly important
<Agathorn>
hmm Stage TWR - would have to be the stage in isolation
<stratochief>
also, dry mass and wet mass appear to be reversed? unless it is lighter when filled? :P
<B787_300>
stratochief: so one of the cool things about that print was it took 5:59:22 and uses 30 g of filament... and it is comprised of 2 outter perimeters, inside is hollow
<Agathorn>
its special gas
<Agathorn>
lighter than air
<stratochief>
Agathorn: huff some more :P
<stratochief>
B787_300: but - will it fly?
<B787_300>
stratochief: no
<B787_300>
not this one
<Agathorn>
stratochief: is the stage TWR useful all by itself not as part of a rocket?
<stratochief>
Agathorn: well, chicken or the egg, right?
<Agathorn>
Well in my head there is another UI that you use to combine stages into a final vehicle, and I was going to obvviously put a TWR on that one
<stratochief>
if I know that the stage alone has a TWR of 1.0, then I know it is too big to be useful. the stage alone TWR at least bounds the value, to give me a basis to judge if I made it unreasonably large or small
<NathanKell>
_all_ options are pressurized, to at least 1.5-2atm. Just sometimes they're _highly_ pressurized, for pressure-fed engines
B787_300 is now known as B787_Bed
<Agathorn>
highly pressurized wouldn't fit very well in the space
<NathanKell>
So have a pressure slider
<NathanKell>
it determines tank structural mass
<NathanKell>
(and max chamber pressure for pressure fed engines)
<Agathorn>
might be going deeper than I had planned but i'll consider it
<NathanKell>
that's one thing we really fail to cover in RO
<NathanKell>
you can make great pressure-fed engines but you pay in tank mass
<Agathorn>
the goal here really is just mating an engine with a tank.. so the engine will have already been designed. I imagine if there was a pressure slider, the user would just be sliding it up until it was high enough to work with the chosen engine
<Agathorn>
which seems like a needless step
<Agathorn>
Maybe I shouldn't even have the pressurized option at all, just it is set internally based on the engine
<Agathorn>
if you choose an engine that needs a highly pressurized tank then it is just set that way
<NathanKell>
Yes, set internally based on engine
<NathanKell>
however, beyond a certain point balloon becomes impossible
<Agathorn>
in which case you could argue the cryo setting should be the same based on propellant
<NathanKell>
No, because you can very well have uninsulated LOX tanks
<Agathorn>
that's a good point.. so I would need to disable the balloon option under some conditions
<NathanKell>
c.f. every launch vehcile until like 1965
<Agathorn>
by choice or by tech?
<NathanKell>
heck, you could have uninsulated LH2 tanks too if you really wanted (spoiler you don't)
<NathanKell>
some combination I assume--insulation costs mass, you probably gain more by having slightly larger tanks than insulating the whole tank
<Agathorn>
gotcha.. ok leave that option in then :)
<Agathorn>
still not entirely sure how i'm going to handle boiloff anyway
<NathanKell>
generally the ice that forms does much of the insulation for LOX
<NathanKell>
KevinStarwaster is the expert here
<Agathorn>
I don't really want users fiddling with tank proportions
<B787_Bed>
yeah ballon tanks are great but if you go over about 600 psi in them they start getting dicey
<KevinStarwaster>
correct, LOX tanks weren't insulated in the Saturn era
<KevinStarwaster>
ice + steel tanks were low enough conductivity
<KevinStarwaster>
+ topping them off until launch
<KevinStarwaster>
shuttle tanks were insulated all around and I think SPaceX also insulates theirs?
<KevinStarwaster>
btw, at SOME point in the future, I've got plans to put in player configurable MLI insulation using the Lockheed equations
<NathanKell>
\o/
<KevinStarwaster>
and they'd add weight appropriate to the number of layers and total surface area
<Agathorn>
well some things to think about.. I DO want insulation to be a thing, but don't know how deepo into the rabbit hole I Want to go
<KevinStarwaster>
take the red pill
<KevinStarwaster>
TAKE IT DAMN YOU! OPEN YOUR MOUTH!
<NathanKell>
but, you know, not trp
<B787_Bed>
NathanKell: so now i know where you work i have to ask....
<KevinStarwaster>
dont
<B787_Bed>
HL3 when?
<KevinStarwaster>
dont ask it
<KevinStarwaster>
OMG
<Agathorn>
kick
<NathanKell>
IT GOT DELAYED AGAIN
<KevinStarwaster>
dont you know every time someone asks they tack on 3 more months?
<NathanKell>
^
<KevinStarwaster>
I want it to come out before I die of old age you know
<Agathorn>
if they ever actually make that game I will be chocked
<Agathorn>
its too much of a joke now
<B787_Bed>
i remember there used to be a HL 3 bot on reddit and last i saw its release date was like 2150 or so
<Agathorn>
They seriously should just release it as HL4
* xShadowx
thinks he is the only one who doesn't want HL3
<KevinStarwaster>
I'd be happy if they just made a L4D3
<Agathorn>
xShadowx: yeah I couldn't care one way or the other
<B787_Bed>
xShadowx: i couldnt care less... i have never played HL1 or HL2
<KevinStarwaster>
but I dunno if that's even int he works at all
<Agathorn>
I do want Portal 3 though
<B787_Bed>
but the joke was there
<B787_Bed>
Agathorn: me too
<Agathorn>
but Valve can't count past 2 so sad
<B787_Bed>
me too
<KevinStarwaster>
maybe Gaben was in a tragic accident where he lost three fingers on each hand
<Agathorn>
but then he should be able to count to 4
<KevinStarwaster>
uhm
<Agathorn>
:)
<xShadowx>
almost as bad as canadians cant go past the letter a :P
<KevinStarwaster>
it was a REALLY tragic accident and he lost five fingers on ONE hand and 3 on the other
<Agathorn>
*groan*
<Agathorn>
I think its like the Chinese.. I forget which number it is, but often Chinese buildgins skip certain floors similiar to how some buildings skip the 13th floot
<xShadowx>
KevinStarwaster: people can use toes to count
<KevinStarwaster>
I'm such a bad person playing L4D... I always have to have the katana and I always have a plan to beat my team to any possible katana locations. I horde bile and adrenaline just so I can make a mad dash for the katana
<Agathorn>
except they skip like every floor with a 2 in it or something
<xShadowx>
american buildings kip 13th floor
<Agathorn>
xShadowx: yeah but thatys just one floor
<KevinStarwaster>
HE LOST HIS FEET TOO OK? I wasn't expecting all these gotcha questions
<xShadowx>
KevinStarwaster: still got 4 limbs
* xShadowx
can't resist
<Agathorn>
KevinStarwaster: just give up... xShadowx will argue anything until the big chill
<Agathorn>
and would probably try to argue even past that except the universe is dead at that point
<Agathorn>
entropy is a b
<xShadowx>
im not that bad, hes just making it hard to resist :P
<ferram4>
I got pinged something about pressure and balloon tanks? I think?
<ferram4>
I just got back.
<NathanKell>
Agathorn went to be so you're freeeeeeee
<ferram4>
Ah.
<ferram4>
Well.
<ferram4>
I think the limit is 2-3 atm.
<NathanKell>
cool, that's what I guessed
<NathanKell>
\o/
<ferram4>
Of course, that raises the question: is a tank with a structural mass heavier than a standard balloon tank but lighter than a standard tank structure a balloon tank, or something else?
<NathanKell>
_Could_ there be a tank rated for >3atm pressure that nonetheless is too weak to support its own weight under 1G?
<ferram4>
...probably if it was made of titanium.
<ferram4>
You're more worried about buckling than any other kind of failure under those circumstances, and that means thin walls.
<NathanKell>
ya
<ferram4>
I think that aluminum thick enough to handle that much pressure is too thick to buckle.
<ferram4>
Unless it's shit aluminum.
<NathanKell>
heh
<ferram4>
Hmm... perhaps for a large enough tank it's possible, with buckling happening down at the very bottom of the tank, right where the tankbutt is welded on.
<ferram4>
However, I think for a tank that large the biggest issue would be that it would likely be destroyed by vibrations from the engines required to lift it.
<ferram4>
Although I'm speculating here.
<ferram4>
I haven't run any numbers, just throwing out possibilities.
<NathanKell>
still way more informed speculation than me :D
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|AFK
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] pianojosh opened pull request #1655: Increase merlin burn time (master...increase-merlin-burn-time) https://git.io/vHcm1
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<egg|zzz|egg>
sarbut sarbian
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<HypergolicSkunk>
setting up a test-install of RO/RSS via CKAN now...
<HypergolicSkunk>
good morning btw o/
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<egg|zzz|egg>
rsparkyc: re. your issue, it's a known one that got hotfixed quickly on windows/linux, but lamont didn't get that patch; phl will comment with the details (it's an easy fix)
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<Probus>
KevinStarwaster, I was building a two part lander and had an idea. How hard would it be for you to make a procedural donut or add a donut configuration to the tank shape.
<Probus>
This would, of course, let you hide the ascent engine.
<Probus>
Maybe Toroidal may be the word I'm looking for. If it were it's own part, then it would have more flexibility, but be more work.
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<acc>
ahoy hoy
<Theysen>
oh captain my captain?
* soundnfury
gives Theysen a scrapyard of insufferable arrogance
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<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn Theysen
* Qboid
gives Theysen a harmful demon
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn hattivat
* Qboid
gives hattivat an enriched projective superuser
<Theysen>
first time I got something useful from the bot
<acc>
Theysen: arrr. bring me that rum!
<Theysen>
dude I was so hammerd on thursday, no more rum please :D :D
<acc>
heh
<acc>
just got up, so I'm probably fine with coffee
<Theysen>
giant thunderstorm just passing by
<acc>
not bad, I'm baking in the sun right now
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<stratochief>
Probus: new shapes are not being added by Starwaster, he is handling things that break, but not planning on adding things himself
<Theysen>
acc, yep i fell asleep the other day in the sun..
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<acc>
Theysen: oh, got burned
<acc>
?
<Probus>
Gotcha stratochief. I'm glad he is keeping things going.
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<stratochief>
Probus: of you want to poke around the source code, you might figure out how challenging it might be? Or, find a suitable torroid tank in another mod, experiment to see if FAR & tweakscale fight if your scaled torroid/donut is hiding within a launch fairing?
<Theysen>
acc, don't even ask
<stratochief>
Theysen: outdoor partial cremation? when is your funeral?
<Theysen>
i started in the shade but welp, sun orbits earth and angles change right? stratochief, when lying down doesn't hurt anymore :D
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Pap|Goodnight is now known as Pap
<Pap>
Anyone here plant vegetable gardens?
<Qboid>
Pap: leudaimon left a message for you in #RO [28.05.2017 02:49:50]: "You discovered my secret! Finally setting up a 1.2.2 install for a Brazillian carreer"
<Pap>
HypergolicSkunk: how did the install go?
<acc>
Pap: aye, I do
<Pap>
Nice acc, I just got back from the store to plant ours today, but will have to do it in between thunderstorms
<stratochief>
Pap: I've been known to garden, yep
<acc>
Pap: btw we just started yesterday #Mars for offtopic, if you wanna join. everyone is welcome, of course
<stratochief>
ideally, offtopics related to Mars. or, you know, other things
<Pap>
lol, I will pop in there, oftentimes I am not well-informed enough to take part in many of your off-topic convos
<stratochief>
Pap: I've never planted in super-soaked ground, but only because it would be unpleasant and muddy. I imagine it would still work
<Pap>
stratochief: yeah, unfortunately, with the weather we have had so far this summer, I don't have much of a choice. I also have a raised garden, so not nearly as bad as direct into the ground like I have done before
<acc>
around here is just perfect soil to plant nearly everything
<Pap>
acc: were are you at?
<acc>
south-west germany
<acc>
saarland
<Pap>
Our soil is all clay, so trying to garden in that soil is just terible
<Pap>
nice
<stratochief>
yeah, most everwhere I've lived also has clay soil. Regina had soil too clay-y for brick buildings to really survive, so very few heritage/old buildings of brick
<acc>
buy some soil in the garden market or whatever sells that stuff at your place
<acc>
mix it with old plant trash
<Pap>
that is exactly what I have done acc
<acc>
and put in the used voffee
<acc>
coffee
<acc>
that's great fertilizer as well
<stratochief>
yeah, mixing clay with mulch, etc. is good
<Pap>
stratochief: I just learned yesterday that it is pronounced Re-jye-nuh and not Re-jee-nuh
<stratochief>
Pap: did you have a vegetable planting specific question, or you just wanted to let us know about having to plant mid-rain?
<stratochief>
Pap: yep. "The city that rhymes with fun!"
<Agathorn>
morning
<acc>
hey Agathorn
<Agathorn>
time to get back to the grindstone.. worked out an initial mockup for the stage designer last night. Now I need to start making it functional :)
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<stratochief>
lol. such a conventional marriage :)
<stratochief>
morning Agathorn. ferram and NK talked about balloon tanks for a bit after you went to sleep
<Agathorn>
yep saw it in the scrollback
<stratochief>
not terribly important for your current stage of development, IMO, but worth ensuring your code will accept modifiers to structural mass & insulation later on
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<Agathorn>
I think the main thing is making sure the player can't make a tank be bothe balloon and highly pressurized
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<Agathorn>
after talking with NK before bed I decided to remove the option for a highly pressurized tank and just make that automatic based on the chosen engine's requirements
<Agathorn>
So I will disable the Balloon option if the tank is Highly Pressurized
<acc>
but why is there a difference between ullage and maneuver rcs?
<Agathorn>
It doesn't handle engine clusters or half stages at the moment.. not sure how I am going to work that in yet
<acc>
I would suspect maneuvering has ullage included
<acc>
ah, hm
<Agathorn>
The reason I am making it different - for now - is how the blocks will be orientated
<Agathorn>
Manuever RCS will be at the top and provide rotational control
<Agathorn>
while Ullage RCS will be at the bottom and provide translational control
<stratochief>
right, so not much a mass requirement, but it will have a cost and change how the stage appears
<Agathorn>
yeah
<acc>
ah, gotcha. that makes sense
<Agathorn>
small amount of mass too of course..but small
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<KevinStarwaster>
Probus, Re: procedural torii I don't know what would be involved in the coding for shapes like that so I don't know how to answer
<stratochief>
making the collider hollow would be... interesting
<ferram4>
A hollow collider would be a terrible plan.
<ferram4>
Make it a ring of cylinders instead.
<stratochief>
ferram4: doesn't stock have a torus shaped tank? is that how they do that collider?
<ferram4>
It has no hole in the center.
<ferram4>
It has a plain cylinder as a collider, IIRC.
<stratochief>
lol
<Probus>
How about a cylinder with extra attach points in the center?
<stratochief>
Probus: can't you just surface attach an engine? iirc, RO or RP-0 makes every engine surface attachable
<Probus>
Definately. I thought it might be an easy thing to create a hole in the center of a tank. Sounds much more complicated.
<Agathorn>
Usually is :)
<Agathorn>
How easy you think something is often has an inverse relationship to howq hard something is to implement lol
<Probus>
:)
<xShadowx>
just install KKS, place a girder under tank, let clamps drop tank to the ground, girder bangs hole into center ;p
<stratochief>
drop forged tank
<KevinStarwaster>
it's so special when a feral cat gives you their trust
<acc>
:)
<HypergolicSkunk>
hey Pap|HoneyDoList - the RO-from-CKAN-install is fine. in my other install (with additional mods) there must be some problem, because I get repeateable CTDs when changing the Root part in the SPH
<stratochief>
blech, the ground nearish dawn or dusk with RSS/RO and no RSSVE or Scatterer looks dark. also, the PQS/SS transition looks odd/dim as well
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<KevinStarwaster>
Anyone else remember when Remote Tech had steerable antennae?
<Agathorn>
you mean the ability to target? Did that get removed?
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<KevinStarwaster>
agathorn: Meaning only that the antenna would visibly point in the direction it was transmitting
<Agathorn>
oh I think that left a long time ago
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<dpeter99>
hi
<stratochief>
o/
<stratochief>
dpeter99: ^
<dpeter99>
so i was wandering if somebodíy could help me whit #1656
<stratochief>
which bits were you hoping to config first? engines?
<dpeter99>
yes
<dpeter99>
and if the landing legs require anithing
<stratochief>
were you intending to model them after real engines, or just give them realistic-ish stats/behaviour
<dpeter99>
just the stats
<dpeter99>
but i'm not the mod owner (I don't know if that is a problem)
<stratochief>
meh, you're free to make configs to make a mod work with realfuels no matter who you are
<dpeter99>
ok
<stratochief>
do you intend to have them all burn the same real fuels, or different ones? common combos include kerosene+oxygen, hydrogen+oxygen, or hypergolics (storable liquids, like the Titan II or soviet Proton use)
<stratochief>
the fuels that stock uses are most like hypergolics in their efficiency and density, and that they don't boil away
<stratochief>
last time I used SpaceY, it had a subtantial range of engines. were you intending to make them all act like Merlins, or a specific few?
<dpeter99>
well the problem is that i don't know why they have multiple engines
<stratochief>
what what has multiple engines?
<stratochief>
*why what?
<dpeter99>
the mod
<stratochief>
because some are big, some are small? some are low thrust, some are high. some are intended for vacuum use, others for surface/launch pad
<dpeter99>
Moa, Kiwi, Moa, Penguin
<dpeter99>
yes obviously but I thought these are supposed to be SpaceX replicas
<stratochief>
right. so the ones with high vacuum ISP are meant for use in vacuum. even SpaceX has more than 1 type of engine, one type for the first stage and another for vacuum
<stratochief>
have you played with RO or RealFuels before?
Sigma88 is now known as SigmaNomz
<stratochief>
I ask, because there are a few Merlin & Merlin Vac currently configured within RO, and I'm curious if you've used them
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<stratochief>
IIRC, the ones that I've seen most recently that look like the real ones are the ones in SSTU
<dpeter99>
ok found one
<dpeter99>
called merlin
<stratochief>
in game?
<dpeter99>
yes!!!
<stratochief>
do you know how to change between engine configs with RealFuels?
<dpeter99>
yup
<stratochief>
cool. so, you could configure surface ones on your first stage for launch, and a vacuum one for the upper stage
<stratochief>
Theysen: is RSSVE compatible with the most recent Scatterer? if no, why not?
<Theysen>
stratochief, with luck is last thing I heard
<Theysen>
some people get unfixable artifacts, some get blue balls
<dpeter99>
ok also i have many untextured parts
<stratochief>
dpeter99: parts from which mod?
<dpeter99>
RKK Energika is the ingame manufacturer
<dpeter99>
russian engine
<dpeter99>
but this is only a example
<stratochief>
sure, but that could be from any mod really. could be you lack SXT or VSR, or have an incompatible version, for example. but with insufficient info, that is a random guess
<dpeter99>
where can i find out what mod adds it exactly?
<stratochief>
with right click, you should be able to see the part name. that might be enough, or you may want to search that part name in the RO Github to find the code that addes/configures it
<dpeter99>
Block dm-sl
<dpeter99>
but also a RD-0110
<stratochief>
and what part mods do you have installed? I'd guess an odd version of soviet engines, that lacks textures is in there?
<dpeter99>
i used ckan
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<stratochief>
and so, one of the mods you installed through ckan lacks engine textures, or doesn't have them set up properly
<dpeter99>
how can i know that (if it has the textures)?
<Theysen>
i have a slight feeling the KIS mod on CKAN is still pulling the 1.3 version on a 1.2.2 install and crashes the game. the RO thread will be nice :)
<stratochief>
Theysen: lol. that seems to fit with what I've seen in various comments about people moving to 1.3
<dpeter99>
yes it does download the 1.3 version and i had to disable it
<stratochief>
dpeter99: first, you'll need to figure out which mod is showing untextures parts. or, you could ingore them :P
<hattivat>
so if you can see some small red text on your engines, then that is definitely the right texture and nothing is missing
<dpeter99>
just like a untextured model (the text texture could be there) how friendly of these russians
<hattivat>
haha, yeah
<dpeter99>
also why did RO mark the landing legs as non-RO ?
<hattivat>
probably because no one has bothered to research the topic and give them proper stats
<hattivat>
yet
<hattivat>
but you should be fine using them, the non-RO tag is just there for information
<dpeter99>
and for hiding
<stratochief>
yep, they might be too heavy or too light, too strong or too weak. you can compare them to the existing RO marked legs to see how they compare
<hattivat>
yeah, if you wanted to play full-realism you would hide them and pick other parts
<KevinStarwaster>
or they might have appropriate stats but nobody knows yet
<Agathorn>
just realized i'm going to have to have some special handlgin for solid rocket stages given they don't have a separate tank
<dpeter99>
why are the TAC life support containers marked as non ro
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<xShadowx>
guesing - because proc part tanks is better than 100 cylinders if 3-4 sizes
<dpeter99>
ok
<xShadowx>
no idea if bug or not i dont use em :P just giving a plausable explanaition
<stratochief>
anything marked non-RO hasn't been tagged as RO in the config. generally that means it hasn't had the config adjusted by RO in any way
<dpeter99>
i know that
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<hattivat>
the advice to use procedural parts for tanks is good advice in general
<stratochief>
dpeter99: well, that is the reaosn that any part is marked as non-RO...
<hattivat>
using pre-sized tanks in RO is usually a bad idea, unless you are doing an exact replica of a particular rocket
<xShadowx>
hmm mod idea, some partmodule to save/reload presets for <part>, supporting systems as proc parts, RF tanks, etc thats WIDELY configurable, and can be argued "this is a whole new part unlike that tank 1/2 the size"
<dpeter99>
and would have those cool "smoke" effects (because of the cold fuel)
<xShadowx>
coolrockets does the effects
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<KevinStarwaster>
stratochief: make the landing legs out of a bullshitium-unobtanium alloy.
<Rokker>
stratochief|away: oi
<Rokker>
stratochief|away: busy launch week coming up
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<KevinStarwaster>
you know, one of the scariest horror notions to me is the concept of once you know about them, they can see you. Or once you can see them then they can see you...
<KevinStarwaster>
Lovecraft used that a lot in his Cthulu books
<KevinStarwaster>
Clark Ashton Smith did that a bit too
<acc>
J-2 unlocked \o/
<acc>
let's get that apollo program rollin
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<Agathorn>
Metal Earth models are really hard :(
* UmbralRaptor
hands KevinStarwaster a Tillinghast resonator.
<acc>
damn, max tank diameter in the way to mount 5*F-1
<acc>
almost one year to unlock that
<KevinStarwaster>
Stirring, dear sir? I told you it was dangerous to move. I have saved you so far by telling you to keep still—saved you to see more sights and to listen to me. If you had moved, they would have been at you long ago. Don’t worry, they won’t hurt you. They didn’t hurt the servants—it was seeing that made the poor devils scream so. My pets are not pretty, for they come out of places where aesthetic standards
<KevinStarwaster>
are—very different. Disintegration is quite painless, I assure you—but I want you to see them. I almost saw them, but I knew how to stop. You are not curious? I always knew you were no scientist! Trembling, eh? Trembling with anxiety to see the ultimate things I have discovered? Why don’t you move, then? Tired? Well, don’t worry, my friend, for they are coming. . . . Look! Look, curse you, look! . . . It
<KevinStarwaster>
’s just over your left shoulder. . . .
<UmbralRaptor>
^_^
<KevinStarwaster>
one of my favorite quotations in his stories
<egg>
!wpn UmbralRaptor
* Qboid
gives UmbralRaptor a squeezable prompt-critical edge
<UmbralRaptor>
Uh, does squeezing it induce criticality?
<acc>
two 7.5Mm dishes should be fine for communication to mars, right?
<acc>
s/7.5/75/
<Qboid>
acc meant to say: two 75Mm dishes should be fine for communication to mars, right?
<acc>
effective range 37Gm
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<soundnfury>
!tell NathanKell|AFK I have the beginnings of the glimmerings of a proof of concept: https://github.com/ec429/ksp_ris
<Qboid>
soundnfury: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<KevinStarwaster>
acc only if they're the fine china dishes
<KevinStarwaster>
if my feral cat Martha Stewart had gone to school, her yearbook entry would have read: "Most likely to climb her human like a tree"
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<Agathorn>
very cool soundnfury. Did I inspire you? :)
<Agathorn>
On my front I actually have state being passed betwene UIs, allowing the selection of engine and tank for stage construction. Seems minor but its very cool that different disparate pieces are finally talking to each other :)
<soundnfury>
Agathorn: umm, you might have inspired the name? I forget who that came from.
<Agathorn>
heh I meant insired you to do such a thing but i'll take my arrogance and wander off :)
<Agathorn>
Need a break
<KevinStarwaster>
it's pretty damned terrifying when MJ's landing guidance suddenly pops up a landing predictor in-world for my lunar rover
<KevinStarwaster>
(because my wheels left the ground and I am now 'airborne')
<soundnfury>
Agathorn: idk. The original idea came out of nowhere, so it's possible you might have inspired it for all I know ;)
<acc>
hm, F-1 has no testflight integration. what is a realistic burn time?
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<darsie>
hi
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<darsie>
I have KSP 1.2.2 and RO+RSS are available in ckan, but RP0 is missing. Upgrade to 1.3? Wait? Or install RP0 anyways?
<darsie>
I want to fly again, but it kept crashing too often :(.
<soundnfury>
acc: S-IC burned for 165 seconds, according to wiki. So maybe 3 minutes tops?
<soundnfury>
darsie: wait (RP-0 release for 1.2.2 should be coming soon I believe) or manually install.
<darsie>
yeah, I'm there. Looking for the source tarball.
<soundnfury>
click "Clone or download" (green button near the top)
<soundnfury>
then "Download ZIP"
<darsie>
ok.
<soundnfury>
btw, if you don't have perl (to build Tree.cfg), you can just copy the Tree.cfg from the last release; it'll mean you're missing a few newly-configured parts, but it should still be playable
<darsie>
I have perl on my debian.
<soundnfury>
oh good, you're using best distro :)
<darsie>
:), well, it has it's pros and cons.
<soundnfury>
then, just go into the unzipped directory and 'make'
<soundnfury>
uh, okay... since you're not likely to be making any release zipfiles (which are the only thing that uses $(VERSION) in the Makefile), just do a "git init"
<soundnfury>
(alternatively, if patient, clone the RP-0 repo)
<Agathorn>
stupidly naive question..but does the same volume of different propellants have different mass?
<soundnfury>
darsie: actually, git init probably won't do, because git describe will want a tag.
<darsie>
If you're on Linux, try running: mozroots --import --ask-remove on the command-line to update your certificate store, and try again.
<soundnfury>
oh yeah, the joy of getting https working in mono/CKAN.
<soundnfury>
If that command it suggested doesn't work, I think there's something in the CKAN-client release notes about this.
<darsie>
worked. It asked me about a lot of certs if I wanted to remove them and I said no a lot of times.
<darsie>
Lack's SXT=SXTContinued by linuxgurugamer?
SirKeplan is now known as SirKeplan|ZZZ
NathanKell|AFK is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<darsie>
hi NathanKell
<Probus>
\o
<soundnfury>
o/ NathanKell
<soundnfury>
apparently /nicking doesn't cause Qboid to !tell your old nick :(
* soundnfury
points NathanKell at the scrollback
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|AFK
<NathanKell|AFK>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell|AFK: soundnfury left a message for you in #RO [28.05.2017 21:44:18]: "I have the beginnings of the glimmerings of a proof of concept: https://github.com/ec429/ksp_ris"
NathanKell|AFK is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
...oh, jeez, I thought you were just going to like save-file edit or something, you're actually writing the backend. Nice!
<NathanKell>
Also...why did I expect anything else :D
<Agathorn>
evening NathanKell
<NathanKell>
stratochief|away, Pap|HoneyDoList - is there a golden sheet for RP-0? I hear tell we're with a bunch of *Continued mods now?
<NathanKell>
heya Agathorn
<Agathorn>
the golden sheet has a RP-0 tab
<Agathorn>
so its the same sheet
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<Agathorn>
different day
<Agathorn>
(couldn't resist)
* NathanKell
headdesk
<NathanKell>
thanks
<Agathorn>
:)
<Agathorn>
I'm deep into calculating stage properties so i've been head-desking a lot
<Agathorn>
need to make a look up table for densities I guess