<stratosleep>
I'd just MSPaint something together that says "Drink Pee! Eat Poop!" over the NASA meatball. I'm not a 'creative'
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<soundnfury>
stratosleep: because as everyone knows, all ISRU technologies include picks.
<stratosleep>
soundnfury: gotta set up a chain gang on the Moon. cold hand luke style
<stratosleep>
*cool hand
<stratosleep>
but, I mean, a chain gang on the Moon could get fairly cold
<soundnfury>
'specially if you're on the night shift
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<Starwaster>
ugh, ok so with RPM, staying entirely in IVA, how do you stage?
<Starwaster>
waot mv,
<Starwaster>
nvm
<Starwaster>
it responded that time
<Starwaster>
weird
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<acc>
hullu
<HypergolicSkunk>
o/
<acc>
hey HypergolicSkunk
<acc>
knows someone if AIES still works? I'm interested in the landing legs, probe cores and antennae
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<Pap>
acc, Someone, (I think Theysen) just tested AIES and said it is pretty messed up, Landing legs would especially not work well due to the changes made since 1.05 when it was last updated
<Pap>
o/ HypergolicSkunk
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<acc>
hey Pap
<HypergolicSkunk>
hoi Pap
<acc>
I found a fix for the legs
<acc>
but not tested yet
<Pap>
nice acc I know that (Again, I think Theysen) said there were issues with the engines as well
<Pap>
Here, found the quote acc : Pap: Theysen left a message for you in #RO [09.05.2017 07:54:37]: "AIES engines are fundamentally bugged, can confirm. Deprecated is appreciated I'd say"
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<acc>
first lunar orbit insertion \o/
<acc>
Pap: I don't really care about the AIES engine :D
<acc>
pretty proftable mission: moon flyby, orbit, impacter, sounding rocket medium and high, science from space around the moon
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<Pap>
NIce acc
<Pap>
I just posted a new question for players of RP-0, let me know what you all think: RP-0#655
<xShadowx>
CobaltWolf: how long til your Titan parts done?:|
<CobaltWolf>
xShadowx: I don't know. I am going to stream tomorrow night to see how much I can get done on them. It's slow, not just because PJ's style is time intensive but also I am making a lot of changes to all the parts now while I'm putting all this work in
<CobaltWolf>
like if I'm going to work on them, I'd rather put in the time to fix all the little issues I find to try and make them more polished. That's what my work always lacks is polish
<CobaltWolf>
but it makes these updates really slow
<CobaltWolf>
in the meantime check out the LEM textures since I don't think I'm going to work on those more, whereas stuff like Saturn and Thor I need to take another quick pass on
<xShadowx>
^.^
<Pap>
o/ stratochief
<stratochief>
hello, hello Pap. another interesting idea worth considering is a really simple tech tree, like Probus showed here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/131112-wip-historical-progression-tree-jan-31-2016/
<Pap>
stratochief, yes, I have seen that tree many, many times
<Pap>
It is really nice
<stratochief>
that may not lend itself so well to procedurals and non-recreation parts, but it is a really neat and straightforward idea I wanted to make sure you were exposed to. might be a neat way to quickly put together a tree for the recreation packs, like FASA, RN stuff, BDB, etc.
<stratochief>
Pap: ahh, alright then :)
<Pap>
I think you are dead on with your response to the post as well!
<stratochief>
Pap: alright, glad you think so. I understand there may be technical challenges going down one path, then making the work ammenible to switching to being the default tree eventually, so I don't want to discount the value of making a true decision early
<stratochief>
or, planning for that eventual switch over in how you assemble the tree.
<Pap>
nope, I will have it setup so that it works completely if it decides to get implemented in the future
<Pap>
It is more for the work-flow I was going to use. I am going to first place all of the stuff that I use, then add other parts if there is interest
<stratochief>
Pap: gotcha. if that requires any change to the RP-0 PERL script (like I suggested, with a NEEDS[!) tag, or something, feel free to ask or PR a change there
<CobaltWolf>
I had to work to get that JPG that compressed
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: lol. FASA rises again! nothing can kill it :P
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<CobaltWolf>
stratochief: I'm just an incredibly vain and jealous person. It's my #1 or #2 character flaw. But it also makes me work really hard at everything cus I want to be the very best like no one ever was
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: I would never say that FASA is superior to BDB in art style or anything; I use FASA because it is already configured. some of your fanclub need to get off their butts and steal the FASA configs to get BDB fully RO'd (not Pap, Pap is busy :) )
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief: it is really uncomfortable how much of a fan club I have
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: I'd only be uncomfortable with it, because they lazy as fuck. or at least, not active enought to make stock configs and RO configs for you
<xShadowx>
just grow more ego, gets rid of the fanclub quick
<Pap>
theysen started working on Centaur yesterday, I provided him with all the rescale factors for BDB parts. You are on your way!
<Pap>
act more like Rover Dude
<CobaltWolf>
well, the only part that actually bothers me is when someone new posts on the thread, and one of two people like fucking attack them for no reason. Like, fuck you that's someone that put in the time to ask something about the mod.
<CobaltWolf>
RD can suck it I have like one and a half times as much rep as him
<CobaltWolf>
_because of my fan club)
<xShadowx>
Pap: i was thinkin the same ut i thought id be more polite XD
<CobaltWolf>
(*
<stratochief>
FASA is like a caveman cyborg. it only survives with the tiny brain because dozens of scientists have augmented him since he hit the scene
<Pap>
lol xShadowx
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: yeah, fair. gotta PM the biggest fanbois and tell them to chill, that you appreciate all questions and new faces on your thread
<stratochief>
IMO, it is hard to set that tone directly in the thread, but it can be done.
<CobaltWolf>
I see them every day on Discord and I've yelled at them about it
<stratochief>
all their posts need to bear a "Apologies if I was a foaming fanboi" footer
<xShadowx>
ksp has a discord?:|
<CobaltWolf>
I have one that's full of modders and a couple groupies
<Pap>
CobaltWolf, there are a couple of people in your Discord that like to set the opposite tone of what you want because they like the pitchforks and yelling part of it
<CobaltWolf>
Pap: is on it
<xShadowx>
link?:|
<CobaltWolf>
I can post an invite link, anyone here is probably chill
<Pap>
CobaltWolf, like you have made comments, and then acted on them, but you also know that there is a line you don't cross, or a time to stop it, some of those guys don't get that, or don't care about it
<CobaltWolf>
yeah hang on, I was typing something and I cut it to my clipboard to reply to you. lemme finish that
<stratochief>
we gotta see if someone still has contact with PorkJet, so we can make sure he is aware of all the BDB stuff being developed in his art style. I imagine he'd take that as a strong complement
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief: trust me you have no idea how much I've tried, how many people I've talked to
<Pap>
stratochief, that has been going on in the BDB Discord
<CobaltWolf>
someone on my Discord had the really fair point that the community's practice of keeping dead mods limping along discourages new people coming in and making newer, better content because they see the need is already filled, albiet with old/outdated art assets
<CobaltWolf>
it is RealPlume but I don't think I changed it at all from the normal J-2. Literally just copied the config and renamed it
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief: check the diagram on page 6 of the PDF
<CobaltWolf>
it's just a big SD-3
<stratochief>
yeah, big SD-3. "approximate envelope". also, the header for that document says it was planned for a recoverable booster for dynasoar? how were the planning to recover a stage in 1964?
<CobaltWolf>
parachutes
<stratochief>
chutes, salt water? crazy old timers
<CobaltWolf>
well
<CobaltWolf>
to be fair they did salt water testing on H-1s and they were fine
<CobaltWolf>
but they had ideas... stuff like a sort of inflatable rubber jacket to stop the salt water from touching the engines
<stratochief>
weird. but fair enough
<CobaltWolf>
Saturn 1 was supposed to be reused according to the original design, they just didn't because trying to develop that technology would delay the moonshot
<stratochief>
interesting. shame they didn't just delay the moonshot. spreading the costs over a few more years and getting some re-use experience seems valuable
<CobaltWolf>
well that's sort of the killer with Apollo
<stratochief>
my alt-history spread the program out a little longer, didn't spend the development dollars for Apollo or LEM. makes the cost of follow-on programs more palletable, IMO
<CobaltWolf>
everything was so expensive because cost was practically not an issue (relatively speaking!) and then the second the funding went away the program was unsustainable
<CobaltWolf>
If it was slower it likely would have been better. They wanted to gain experience with reuse and a variety of other cost savings measures early on
<stratochief>
yep. blind, unbudgeted ambitious has its costs in the end. RIP our aging moon-stranauts, first and last of their kind
<CobaltWolf>
have you read Kolyma's Shadow?
Thomas|AWAY is now known as Thomas
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: possibly, but possibly not. what is the long and short?
<xShadowx>
RIP such lovely hollywood actors ;3
<stratochief>
xShadowx: you keep saying that, I'll start believing you believe it
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief: Korolev dies in the camp. No R-7, no Sputnik Crisis, no NASA, no moon race. Air Force gets to finish developing Dyna-Soar because they are the only ones really doing anything with space, and they aren't being compared to NASA in terms of what is capable and where funding is going
<CobaltWolf>
just, read the first post and you'll fall in love with it
<xShadowx>
stratochief: we keep stayin on this rock, i'll prolly believe it :( lol
<CobaltWolf>
really just read part 1 of the first post
<CobaltWolf>
and you'll know you're in for something special
<stratochief>
well, it is also by nixonshead, who I've already read some quality work from
<CobaltWolf>
and he sorta wrote it based on the point of departure, and then went from there naturally based on what his research found. unlike Eyes that already had somewhat of an idea where they were going from the beginning
<stratochief>
xShadowx: lucky the -did- go to the Moon durign the sliver of history where it was easier to do than to fake
<CobaltWolf>
or rather, the beginning of Eyes is basically writing backwards from where they WANT to be and it sorta shows
<stratochief>
there are benefits to both writing/planning styles, but yeah, it shows which one was used
<stratochief>
alright, TTYL o/
<CobaltWolf>
l8rs
stratochief is now known as stratochief|away
<xShadowx>
stratochief: not really, given the money hollywood couldve easily made a set to film on, the hard part is all the people watching the launch / where to send the rocket, luckily just a bit east is a massive ocean :|
<CobaltWolf>
xShadowx: no, seriously. It was easier to actually go to the moon than it was to fake it. Film/video and effects technology was that primitive
<CobaltWolf>
remember this is basically before computers
<xShadowx>
CobaltWolf: what effects do you want? they couldnt give a magical floaty camera view from outside in real life, a movie set full of cement mix gives you your grey dust :P
<CobaltWolf>
hang on there's a super neat video explaining it
<CobaltWolf>
People don't talk about the actual difficulties of filming it because they're so busy refuting all the crazy shit the conspiracists make up
<stratochief|away>
xShadowx: but to 'fake it' they also had to build epic sized rockets and all the hardware people -did- see on the ground, and launching. that eats a good bit of your 'fake' budget
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief|away: yeah but... you can just launch a rocket lol
<CobaltWolf>
nobody denies that the rockets were real, it's more whether they actually went
<xShadowx>
^
<xShadowx>
smaller rocket, less cost, add a big skin to make it look fancier
<xShadowx>
reaches ocean, done
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<stratochief|away>
but the Saturn V was seen in orbit. IIRC, some TLI burns were visible from Hawaii. so, that sets a lower bound on what was faked, which would cost a lot ot fake, cutting down your VFX budget a lot
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief|away: you're overthinking this
<xShadowx>
assume it got to orbit, you cannot 100% prove its size, couldve been a small sat made to look the same, enough for a few small burns
<xShadowx>
thats even assuming the public, random joe, saw it in his telescope
<xShadowx>
we had satellites at the time just fine, so i wouldnt call that far impossible
<CobaltWolf>
it's hard being a student, constantly having to move rooms and switching between my laptop and the lab PCs
<xShadowx>
online courses :P
<CobaltWolf>
naw I like being able to have awkward physical interactions with my senior project team
<stratochief|away>
CobaltWolf: gotta create an OS/environment on a thumb drive, then use that on each computer. then it feels just liking logging on and off the same machine when you change machines
<CobaltWolf>
I mean, I'm fine
<CobaltWolf>
I just dislike how I'm constantly logging off IRC
<stratochief|away>
ahh. need a bouncer or something. I just IRC by remoting into my home desktop, because I'm strange and lazy
<xShadowx>
CobaltWolf: nice vid, but it has holes, example claiming we didnt have tech to slow down video to make walking on the moon / not fall so fast, but correct wirework and weights can slow you in real time :)
<stratochief|away>
you guys would trust me to inspect nuclear power reactors, right? I'm considering applying to jobs outside of my current field :P
<Qboid>
Agathorn meant to say: thats why I never disconnect :)
<CobaltWolf>
>>Nuke is using 30gb of RAM
<Agathorn>
It has a server part that is always connected to IRC then Ijust log into it.. I never miss anything despite accessing it from multiple computers all over the place
<CobaltWolf>
Good thing I have 64gb
<xShadowx>
only 64?
* xShadowx
hides his 128gb
<stratochief|away>
Agathorn: to use it that way, you need/have a Windows or Linux computer as an "always on" server?
<Agathorn>
That is one option
<Agathorn>
I used to do that with my windows machine
<Agathorn>
but now I use a server online
<stratochief|away>
which a. costs you money, or b. requires you to host that server ?
<Agathorn>
yeah
<xShadowx>
c. use home pc and rdp into it
<Agathorn>
like I said I used my windows pc for the longest timw..probably 2 years
<Agathorn>
but moved to an online server because I didn't want to have to leave my windows machine on all the time
<Agathorn>
xShadowx: no rdp required
<xShadowx>
'longest time' is 2 years? what are you 5?:P
<xShadowx>
my pc never turns off :|
<xShadowx>
i go with the thinking the constant on/off heating would cause more wear
<Agathorn>
it isn't about wear
<Agathorn>
I used to leave it on all the time, but now I put it to sleep because 1) no sense wasting the power for no reason at all and 2) The heat generated heats up my apartment in the summer, and its hard enough keeping it cool withouth that
<xShadowx>
1) my pc is solar, so moot :D 2) i live around seattle, so 90% of year the heating is welcome, saves from the accual electric furnace which is likely more efficient at making heat but would be more effort to tie solar panels into it
<stratochief|away>
xShadowx: but... power is fungible. solar power you waste on your PC could be used to power other things, or sell more to the grid if you have a grid tie
* stratochief|away
spends ~half his time yelling at rich greenies who don't understand fungibility of power and money
<xShadowx>
our power is mostly hydro though :)
<xShadowx>
if we had ugly coal/oil id be more inclined
* stratochief|away
hits the page where he wrote Fungibility harder. underlines, it, hits the word more times
* stratochief|away
stratochief|pre-meeting
<stratochief|away>
tl;dr: no matter how clean your local source of power is, it is best not to waste. power you don't use can be exported to neighbouring areas that burn coal, natural gas, cutting regional and global emissions
stratochief|away is now known as stratochief|pre-meeting
<Agathorn>
solar? In Seattle?
<Agathorn>
isn't seattle cloudy and rainy all the time like vancouver?
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
Agathorn: yeah. Buzz has strong opinions. His presence at the HumansToMars2017 conference right now looks a little sad to me. he is cleary past his prime, IMO
<CobaltWolf>
I could see a case for moving forward with ISS decommisioning/handoff to put money elsewhere like DSG
<Agathorn>
I don't neccesarily disagree with him in this case but with a big caveat. My fear is we do the things we need to do to move forward, like abondon the ISS, then in 4 or 8 years the plan changes and we're screwed
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
but yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of ISS, but it really is the only flagship human project for NASA right now. also, ISS is a big component in international cooperation in human space flight, which IMO is the best way forward
<Agathorn>
I do want to see private spaceflight grow though and letting them take over the ISS and biuld new stations would be nice, as long as there is something on papaer that makes sure they DO maintain the ISS
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
but to develop DSG to smoothly hand humans off from ISS to DSG, you need more funding, not less. only ~maybe less after the transition
<Agathorn>
stratochief|pre-meeting: is it though? Russia keeps whining about pulling out and joining China, and China has lots of their own plans
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
Agathorn: until the whiners actually accomplish something.. then yes, ISS is the biggest, best success in colab
<Agathorn>
remove Russia from the ISS and you really only have the USA, Canada, and Japan I think
<Agathorn>
(I could be wrong on that)
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
doesn't ESA have a module or two at ISS? US/ESA collab seems like a big enough coallition to start for me
<Agathorn>
but no argument that the USA and Russia are the major partners
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
japan and canada as well, sure, they are just always going to be junior partners
<Agathorn>
ah yeah frogot about ESA somehow.. I would imagine they do
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
it would be nice to have russia and/or china cooperate on DSG or other "Towards Mars" plans, but not crucial
<Agathorn>
China seems set on doing their own thing - as usual - and eyes on the Moon
<Agathorn>
What is DSG?
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
China would love to get their hands on US et al space technologies, and the US doesn't want to give China that precious info because China is a cheap copy cat :P
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
DSG?
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
stupid acronym bot. Deep Space Gateway
<Agathorn>
I just need to live long enough to see people walk on Mars..that's all I ask
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
CobaltWolf: you've posted that before. I have no idea what i'm looking at, but it makes me uneasy and creeped out, like I'm being watched by a semi-robot :P
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief|pre-meeting: newest comp, trying to understand how to make clouds look good
<CobaltWolf>
it's the spaceship from my senior project film. It, like, dies and comes back to life
<Agathorn>
the spaceship needs some work though or else its going to be a hard sell as you have nothing else in frame to ground it
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
Agathorn: time to eat and live healthy, survive for that Mars 2090 mission :P
<Agathorn>
ship needs nurnies
<CobaltWolf>
Agathorn: Not sure what you mean by hard sell. It's just a still from an entire sequence of shots.
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
yeah, maybe some human elements in the space craft. like a person/space suit on the surface, or a clear crew hatch, or siloette of a human in the window?
<Agathorn>
CobaltWolf: just going off the one frame
<CobaltWolf>
yeah
<Agathorn>
is there anything else in the shot?
<Agathorn>
ground? builidings?
<CobaltWolf>
the ship and the camera are moving relative to eachother.
<Agathorn>
this whole thing is animated right? No live action?
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
CobaltWolf: there is a guy making super high res clouds that use some fancy 3 part file think? brain totally dead now, Theysen may know what I'm talking about
<CobaltWolf>
and it's a PITA because all the cloud/smoke was done with an actual effects shoot, it's not some CGI crap
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
CobaltWolf: ahh, good clouds in your project, not in KSP. gotcha
<Agathorn>
I'm trying to figiure out how to make good clouds for my game right now
<Agathorn>
nice looking clouds are easy..nice looking clouds you can move through are a different story
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
Agathorn: yeah, no idea on good clouds you can move through. I've never seen that in KSP
<Agathorn>
die50 is the shot?
<CobaltWolf>
it's because you'd need to have them be volumetric, and to do THAT you'd need to have the voxels up so high it's kill the computer
<Agathorn>
stratochief|pre-meeting: got a few i'm playing with now, but we'll see
<Agathorn>
I want to use clouds as a cheat transition layer to transition between conventional terrain and a sphere with maps
<CobaltWolf>
Agathorn: yeah that's the one in question.That edit is from before the DIE sequence was handed off to me, so there's really no comp work to speak of in the edit. I just posted it for context
<Agathorn>
yeah
<CobaltWolf>
I went in Maya and tore out the running lights and re rendered it
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
Agathorn: yeah, I sometimes cheated the transition between SS/PQS to be at like 50-80km, before one looks crazy muddy, and the both blend like ass
<Agathorn>
curious why the cockpit lights are flickering but not the runing lights? At first I thought the ship was having power issues but now i'm confused :)
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
CobaltWolf: cool. sometimes like Serenity, sometimes like a Turtle
<Agathorn>
stratochief|pre-meeting: I've got lower level looking petty decent right now in my tests
<Agathorn>
way better that RO in KSP if I can be not so humble
<Agathorn>
but the technique won't hold up for a whole planet so I need to transition at some point
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
Agathorn: you can make the transition between PQS/SS a very quick swap over 5-10 km; I've done that before too
<CobaltWolf>
Agathorn: it is but we wanted the focus to be on the cockpit. having the running lights on in the sequence adds too much diffuse/ambient feeling light (which is what they're there for, but whatever)
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief|pre-meeting: it was based on a sea turtle haha
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
Agathorn: no need to be humble it is 'easy' to make things look better in a small alt range, on a single user's setup. but one you perfect/refine, Please share with RSSVE, Theysen, me, etc.
<Agathorn>
stratochief|pre-meeting: I'm talking about my game not KSP :)
<CobaltWolf>
cus we wanted it to look sorta unique
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
ISC (international space craft) SpaceTurtle, reporting for duty!
<CobaltWolf>
I think Pap should finish porting BDB to RO before trying to redo RP-0
<regex>
seriously, me? Awesome, I'm still relevant!
* stratochief|pre-meeting
kicks CobaltWolf for skyjacking attempts at RP-0 volunteers on our own channel :P
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
regex: sure. you've got substantial experience playing RP-0, so why not?
<CobaltWolf>
I have needs too you know
<CobaltWolf>
:P
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
Pap: you should troll TylerRaiz's youtube and Cosmonaut Crash, post that RP-0 issue to get their feedback :)
<CobaltWolf>
I gotta pick on Pap cus I'm starting to feel bad about my discord harassing Shutesie constantly for his X-20
<regex>
Materials Science, nice.
<CobaltWolf>
someone else has to be subjected to it for a bit
<regex>
Does that cover procedural parts radius and such?
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
regex: IIRC, there was also discussion of procedural diametres being their own branch, but yeah, I think by default material science would cover that
<stratochief|pre-meeting>
Pap can correct me
stratochief|pre-meeting is now known as stratochief|away
<regex>
I'm noting down my thoughts in the thread.
<regex>
Looks good Pap
<regex>
Please proceed.
<Pap>
Sounds good, I was just in TylerRaiz stream Sunday watching him play some RO
<Pap>
regex, I think that the Procedural Diameters for Fuel Tanks will be in the Fuel Tanks line, but for Decouplers et al, it would be Materials Science
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<regex>
Sounds good but I think they should be coupled.
<regex>
to some extent at least.
<regex>
Or even remove the clamp for structural elements.
<regex>
now that I think about it.
<regex>
Your choice obviously. I just recall that, when i was able to finally build the Saturn I, I didn't have structural elements big enough.
<Pap>
Is Fuel Tanks even needed as a category? Should everything just be grouped into Material Science?
<KevinStarwaster>
It makes sense that if you can make a tank of a given size that decouplers of that size should be available at the same time
<Pap>
And with the way RO is designed, unlike regular KSP, you aren't really using pre-built Fuel Tanks
<KevinStarwaster>
if you think about it, what IS a decoupler? It's just the structural component being severed by explosive bolts and primacord
<KevinStarwaster>
and sometimes guillotines to sever connectors
<KevinStarwaster>
(oh look, a real life case where decouplers allowed resources to pass cross them. I guess crossfeed isn't magical after all!)
<KevinStarwaster>
is anyone else finding partPrefab.Modules.Contains("Some Module Name String") unsafe to use? It seems to me that ever since 1.2.2 it's prone to nullref errors in the editor. Is there a new safer way to check if the prefab contains a given module?
<xShadowx>
dunno about in editor but i usually use FindModuleImplimenting<T> rather than by name, havent had trouble so far in 1.2.2 but again havent tried from editor
<KevinStarwaster>
I'll try that one instead.
<KevinStarwaster>
the weird part is that the error is actually happening in PartModuleList.Contains
<KevinStarwaster>
!!!
<KevinStarwaster>
OH I know why that is... looking at the base code, I can only think modules hasn't been initialized yet and my code ran in OnStart without calling base.OnStart() first. They must have changed how and when it got initialized so it hasn't happened yet when I try to access it
<xShadowx>
i wouldve thought that be init during awake/load
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<KevinStarwaster>
actually thinking about it more, that doesn't make a lot of sense regardless of which one it's initialized in... it's in Part that the list is initialized in.
<KevinStarwaster>
not PartModule
<KevinStarwaster>
maybe the order of which one is processed first changed
<KevinStarwaster>
xshadowx actually I do see what you're saying.. and they are doing it in Awake... so it ought to be initialized
<xShadowx>
:)
<regex>
My big problem with procedural size caps is they're mainly there to enforce historical trends, not to make sense.
<xShadowx>
oh cool didnt realize there was a Modules.Contains<T>()
<CobaltWolf>
anyone remember how to find the downloads count for github?
<regex>
The Saturn I, for instance, used 6m structural elements but clusters of tanks based on existing tooling. Without said existing tooling, and the cost contraints, they might have opted for larger tanks.
<xShadowx>
wonder if thats new, i always just did FindModuleImplimenting<T> and check if null, lolz but ontains<T> is nice
<soundnfury>
regex: that's why I've been thinking about the possibility of a Tank Production Line mod
<soundnfury>
but I haven't yet been able to figure out some of the details of how to go about implementing it :(
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<soundnfury>
(it might require poking rather deeply into the guts of KCT. Or, if I'm happy with a slightly less featureful and realistic model, it might not.)
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<CobaltWolf>
huh, BDB has 25,000 downloads
<Agathorn>
regex: that isn't an argument against having the caps, they just should be set sensibly not historically
<Agathorn>
soundnfury: if you do such a mod please let me know because I have always wanted TF to be able to work more correctly with the concept of tanks - changes the tank tooling should have consequences
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<CobaltWolf>
@Agathorn WHY IS KRONOS SO MUCH BETTER THAN OFLOW
<Agathorn>
because it costs money
<Agathorn>
and you dont need @ signs
<Agathorn>
this aint twitter :)
<CobaltWolf>
oh but I have NukeX
<CobaltWolf>
naw Discord you need it and it's just muscle memory
<Agathorn>
yeah but it used to be sold separetly
<CobaltWolf>
yeah
<Agathorn>
besides it really just depends
<riocrokite>
Agathorn: I have such a mod in the pipeline, researching cluster tanks is much cheaper than the big ones http://i.imgur.com/i6tvh4b.png
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<stratochief>
riocrokite: nice! the structural mass fraction for those tanks should be much higher, correct?
<riocrokite>
yah stratochief although stuff is more complicated than that
<CobaltWolf>
Agathorn: I'm luckily at the part of this project that I don't have to open it any more.
<riocrokite>
there will be many variables for each size tank, max fuel flow throughput, piping outside or inside, insulation, does it have attachment points, how many vs no (heavy vs light version like in FH core booster vs normal F9 core) etc
<stratochief>
riocrokite: sure, but that is the second most important element, IMO, no? number 1 being that it is easier to research
<riocrokite>
stratochief:
<riocrokite>
basically I want to make a mod that you has 90% research points based on tanks and engines alone
<riocrokite>
tanks and engines based tech tree etc
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<riocrokite>
anyway the idea is that you have to think ahead and most new engines (especially engine clusters vs single engines) will need new type of the same diameter tank
<Pap>
Where are the techs for the Engine variants located? Are they only listed in the Global Engine Configs?
<stratochief>
Pap: I believe so, Ja.
<stratochief>
riocrokite: that... seems potentially hard to create, and to use. as a user, how is one supposed to do that planning before unlocking? will there be planner tool?
<riocrokite>
just check an item info when rightclicking for appropriate values
<riocrokite>
and read the description
<riocrokite>
also all engine and tank versions will have to have the basic one researched first and then tech tree will branch out from that
<stratochief>
riocrokite: gotch, I think. depends on how many values need to be cross-referenced, though.
<riocrokite>
planning it like in real life, many options, however you won't have cash, sci and need to research everything
<riocrokite>
just stuff that you need
<riocrokite>
is it better to invest cash and sci into commonbulkhead tanks or is it better to increase engine thrust? this is what I want to achieve
<riocrokite>
that unfortunately means hundreds of parts to make haha