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<Bornholio>
well that took entirely too long to get working again
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<Bornholio>
did I miss release of RP-0 v.54?
<waerloga>
just released earlier today :P
<Bornholio>
what all is up on master not released?
<blowfish>
Bornholio: commit log would be a better source for that than any individual person
<blowfish>
considering many people make changes
<Bornholio>
yup, looking now
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* waerloga
shakes a fist in Agathorn's general direction
<Bornholio>
was watching someones twitch the other day and say what looked like proceedural tank with greebles (tank ductt) on it? halucinating or in some mod?
<acc>
sounds like SSTU
<Bornholio>
hmm thought i knew what SSTU had
<Pap1723>
Bornholio: yes, but SSTU now has dynamic coloring of their tanks
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<Saabstory88>
not halucinating
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<Bornholio>
356 MB .sigh maybe if its just that.
NathanKell|AWAY is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [14.06.2017 19:37:44]: "whenever you get a chance, there was a question about maintaining the top RP-0 post on the forums. I added you to the conversation"
<probus_>
\o
<lamont>
o/
probus_ is now known as Probus
<stratochief|away>
LittleJoe: did you have a clean install of stock KSP? last I saw from yesterday, you mentioned deleting a part of stock, and were going to get steam to refresh and ensure you had a complete install of KSP ?
stratochief|away is now known as stratochief
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<rsparkyc>
LittleJoe, did you get it working yet?
<rsparkyc>
NathanKell, should we make a new RP-0 thread?
<NathanKell>
rsparkyc: Got your PM forward. Sorry Snark got involved, literally none of the other moderators care :P
<rsparkyc>
haha, yeah, i saw your responded
<rsparkyc>
that's why i hopped on
<NathanKell>
:)
<rsparkyc>
i could see how babysitting that thread could get annoying for them
<NathanKell>
indeed
<soundnfury>
o/
<rsparkyc>
\o
<NathanKell>
pjf is 99% unreachable, so it should be someone else, yeah
<NathanKell>
don't rightly care whom
<NathanKell>
hey snf
<rsparkyc>
i don't mind maintaining it
<NathanKell>
cool, then go for it :)
<rsparkyc>
cool, will do
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<rsparkyc>
since i've made most of the bug fixes anyway...
<NathanKell>
:D
<rsparkyc>
pretty sure i'm not going to get any more firsts into RIS, but i'll stick with that campaign
<Starwaster>
ok so I'm descending slowly on parachute... and I'm in IVA and I notice the RPM added hatch. So I decide to click it... and to my horror the wheel starts turning and suddenly I'm outside the ship
<LittleJoe>
rsparkyc: I've given up for the night : )
<stratochief>
Starwaster: gotta install the kerbal parachute mod before you go clicking hatches, willy-nilly :)
<rsparkyc>
LittleJoe, let me send you my full mod list, maybe it will help
<LittleJoe>
stratochief: I tried just stock and it loaded fine
<Starwaster>
apparently so
<stratochief>
Starwaster: then you can Gagarin to your heart's content
<rsparkyc>
or you should be able to use CKAN now, have you tried that?
<LittleJoe>
could you just send me everything in your gamedata folder?
<Starwaster>
fortunately I didn't fall off though and I spammed the B key until he got back in
<stratochief>
LittleJoe: steam verified, complete stock, with no bits deleted?
<Pap>
o/
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|Twitch
<LittleJoe>
I have no idea....
<LittleJoe>
all I know is this web based caht is soooo hard to follow :P
<Pap>
LittleJoe: gotta get quassel
<stratochief>
LittleJoe: go to steam, right click KSP, Local Files, verify integrity
<LittleJoe>
I already did that actually : )
<LittleJoe>
today
<xShadowx>
and with no mods installed?
<stratochief>
LittleJoe: alright, then the answer is "yes, steam has verified that I have a clean, whole version of stock KSP"
<LittleJoe>
yes
<LittleJoe>
and it loads : )
<LittleJoe>
really fast....
<xShadowx>
loads faster without a squad folder ;3
<LittleJoe>
hehehe
<stratochief>
cool. from there, I personally install RSS, test and verify it loads and works. next, RO and RO required, test that it works, etc.
<xShadowx>
not kidding, its basicly instant heh
<LittleJoe>
really? min went for a bit...
<LittleJoe>
RSS?
<Qboid>
LittleJoe: [RSS] => Real Solar System
<LittleJoe>
; )
<stratochief>
I don't let experience let me get cocky. when I create a new install of RP-0 from scratch, I generally test it 3-5 times at various stages as I gradually assemble the whole bloody mess
<Bornholio>
voice of painful experience talking
<LittleJoe>
I cringe at the possibility of missing something so I usually do it all at once....
<xShadowx>
ive gotten to the point of test every time i add 1 mod >.>
<LittleJoe>
But then we get to where I am now :P
<stratochief>
Bornholio: I've been failing at installing Rp-0 since before some of you had even heard of KSP :)
<Bornholio>
is MM 2.8.0 bck compat to ksp1.2.2?
<xShadowx>
i wouldnt try 1.3 mods on 1.2.2
<Pap>
LittleJoe: it is also a well known "secret" that everyone has a little bit different RO/RP-0 install, even if they follow the exact same steps
<LittleJoe>
: /
<Bornholio>
golden spreadsheet for the win
<stratochief>
LittleJoe: the 'Versions' tab in CKAN will tell you that, once you select module manager
<xShadowx>
1.3 was basicly an update where almost nothin changed, yet broke everything ;p ahahah
<stratochief>
so says Versions, MM 2.8.0 is for ksp 1.3
<LittleJoe>
is there a difinative list of the mods for RP-0?
<LittleJoe>
or I suppose I could just screenshot it...
<xShadowx>
on RP-0 post
<LittleJoe>
oh
<LittleJoe>
are those posts kept up to date>?
<stratochief>
LittleJoe: or, the Relationships tab in CKAN, once you select RP-0 :)
<LittleJoe>
oh nice
<LittleJoe>
didn't think of that...
<stratochief>
LittleJoe: since someone is remaking/sprucing up the RP-0 forum page, I wouldn't think it is crisply accurate
<LittleJoe>
yeah, I always try to get to the souyrce and usually forum threads are about as far as you can get :P
<stratochief>
I often install a few of the mods required for RP-0 through CKAN, before I install RP-0 itself. lets me test if those mods work fine, ie. if it is that mod or RP-0 causing the failure
<LittleJoe>
yeah
<LittleJoe>
I'm going with just RO and RSS to start
<LittleJoe>
launching with RO and RSS
<LittleJoe>
I sware launching the game is harder than launching the rockets....
<LittleJoe>
swear*
DuoDex is now known as DormantDex
<stratochief>
an Atlas 5 is an Atlas 5 is an Atlas 5, where a modded KSP install today might be obsolete due to mod updates within the next few hours or days. so yeah, modded game installs are worse than actual rockets :P
<stratochief>
you can't strap a tricked out El Camino to an Atlas 5, only a certain number of SRBs. but in KSP, you can
<LittleJoe>
well, so long as the updates don't break anything...
<LittleJoe>
ok so RSS and RO work fine
<LittleJoe>
what's the next likely thing to cause issues?
<rsparkyc>
maybe some RP-0 dependency?
<LittleJoe>
well, it has to be
<LittleJoe>
: )
<LittleJoe>
going for firespitter now
<LittleJoe>
firespitter and Kerbal construction time now
<LittleJoe>
crash :O
<LittleJoe>
I got that "retractablelanding surfaces error again
<LittleJoe>
"not 1.3"
<stratochief>
that was w/o rp-0?
<Bornholio>
ok are you sure you are running 1.2.2KSP
<LittleJoe>
yup no RP-0
<LittleJoe>
yup 1.2.2
<LittleJoe>
"[previous_1.2.2]
<LittleJoe>
it must be one of those mods I mentioned....
<LittleJoe>
the last two
<LittleJoe>
firespitter or kerbal constructiontime
<rsparkyc>
where are you getting kerbal construction time?
<rsparkyc>
ckan?
<LittleJoe>
CKAN
<LittleJoe>
yup
<rsparkyc>
maybe a manual install for KCT is better
<LittleJoe>
since that was the only error message I saw
<lamont>
what part mod has the sexy XLR81?
<stratochief>
I personally have v0.1.2 of that mod , not saying that 0.1.3 might not be good, my rp-0 install is old 'cause i haven't had a chance to boot in weeks
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<LittleJoe>
it loaded!!!!
<LittleJoe>
yup, it was retractableliftingsurface....
<LittleJoe>
no I'll install all of RP-0 and see if it works without that mod
<LittleJoe>
and all of the reccomended ones for the heck of it....
<LittleJoe>
recommended*
<stratochief>
lamont: SSTU has that engine, i think?
<stratochief>
LittleJoe: have fun with that. if if fails, don't bug us intil you're back to testing one mod at a time, like a logical sane person :P
<stratochief>
anyway, adios for the night o/
stratochief is now known as stratosleep
<LittleJoe>
night : )
<LittleJoe>
Yes, I will do it systimatically if this doesn't work : )
<LittleJoe>
systamatically*
<LittleJoe>
Thanks everybody for your help!
* LittleJoe
crossing fingers.....
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<UmbralRaptor>
Yeah, GM/r gives a measure of energy, not force.
<UmbralRaptor>
GM/r^2, though
<Agathorn>
9.820257 :D
<Agathorn>
that looks better lol
<UmbralRaptor>
I blame the kerbals for 9.82
<Bornholio>
yup
<Agathorn>
funny what a little exponent will do
<Agathorn>
its a tad higher than i'd expect though interestingly
<Bornholio>
Wiki has a location adapted function listed too
<UmbralRaptor>
To be fair, that last digit is a bit wonky depending on your location on Earth.
<Agathorn>
eh I don't need uber accuracy to be honest
<Agathorn>
rabit holes!
<Bornholio>
acceleration must have square time :P
<UmbralRaptor>
:D
<Agathorn>
UmbralRaptor: I always had used ther constant 9.80665
<Agathorn>
so the 9.8202 is a bit higher than I expected
<Agathorn>
but really nothing to worry about
<Agathorn>
can't believe I didn't notice the missing square :(
<taniwha>
口
<UmbralRaptor>
!u 口
<Qboid>
U+53E3 CJK IDEOGRAPH-53E3 (口)
<Agathorn>
stop drawing squares!
<taniwha>
it's actually a mouth :)
<Agathorn>
All I see is a square :p
<Agathorn>
Must not be in this font
<taniwha>
it is a square even if it is in your font
<Agathorn>
ooooook
<UmbralRaptor>
FOr limited values of squares.
<UmbralRaptor>
It has "feet"
<UmbralRaptor>
...fangs?
<UmbralRaptor>
Is it a vampire?
<taniwha>
heh
<Agathorn>
just a plain square :)
<taniwha>
btw, Sennheiser Momentum headphones are very nice
<taniwha>
(if pricey)
<Agathorn>
I just use my air pods :)
<Agathorn>
but then i'm not an audiphile
<taniwha>
nor am I. I was thinking more the comfort, good enough sound quality, and versatility
<Agathorn>
and i'm really doing as bad(good?) job of avoiding work :(
<taniwha>
analog, usb or bluetooth
<taniwha>
and when connected digitally, they even act as a headset
<Agathorn>
I got the air pods because I was so sick and tired of fighting with bluetooth headphones to get them to connect
<taniwha>
(uses the noise canceling mics for voice)
<Agathorn>
My last pair of BT headphones spent 90% of their time pretending to be wired headphones because they would never connect when I wanted them to
<Agathorn>
my air pods connect perfectly everty time and thats all I care about
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<UmbralRaptor>
$$$
* UmbralRaptor
currently has a pair of Sony MDR-V150 for home and a noname set of earbuds from monoprice for travel.
* UmbralRaptor
suddenly realizes that those MDR-V150s might be >a decade old. Certainly they're beaten up.
<taniwha>
I got the Senns in AU for the trip home and actually slept on the planes
<taniwha>
(pro-tip: do not buy electronics in australia: massive gouging)
<Agathorn>
taniwha: s/electronics/anything
<Qboid>
Agathorn thinks taniwha meant to say: (pro-tip: do not buy anything in australia: massive gouging)
<taniwha>
Agathorn: true
<Agathorn>
well anything imported
<Agathorn>
which is damned near anything
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<soundnfury>
observation #1: it is 5AM. observation #2: I am mildly overstimulated. decision: no sleep for me tonight.
NathanKell|Twitch is now known as NathanKell
<Pap>
That was a good stream NathanKell
<NathanKell>
Thank you! <3
<NathanKell>
brb gotta get some zucchini spiralized
<soundnfury>
that is a strange phrase
<Agathorn>
hey what a man does with his zucchini is his own business
<soundnfury>
I have never felt that my life suffers from insufficiently spiralised zucchini
<Pap>
^ says only a man that has not experienced spiralized zucchini
<soundnfury>
I'm not sure I've ever eaten zucchini, and I have no idea what spiralisation thereof involves
<Agathorn>
spiral cut presumably
<Agathorn>
I don't eat zucchini either
<Agathorn>
yucky stuff
<blowfish>
it has not much flavor on its own
<lamont>
zucchini is just kinda filler to me, kinda ‘meh’
<Pap>
soundnfury: it is also known as Summer Squash, long green vegetable
<blowfish>
technically a fruit like all squash
<soundnfury>
Pap: life is too short for vegetables xD
<Pap>
I agree with that statment
<soundnfury>
meat, grains, and tubers.
<soundnfury>
(not tubas. euphs are better ;)
<Agathorn>
ok its way too late at night to be trying to figure out even simple drag
<Pap>
I agree Agathorn, play some Kerbal, take a break!
<Agathorn>
more like get ready for bed :)
<Bornholio>
ok i got this one, he's gay and going out on friday night
<Agathorn>
*groan*
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: I was just wondering whether it would be tasteless to make that joke :P
<Bornholio>
yes
<Agathorn>
and one thing this channel never is, is tasteless
<Bornholio>
come on we play a game that loads "polishing Helmets"
<soundnfury>
Agathorn: ahahahaha.
<Agathorn>
reticulating splines
<Agathorn>
no one?
<Agathorn>
really?
<Agathorn>
you're all too young!
<regex>
Why does the Aerobee tank + Aerobee engine result in 1m50s of flight time with a 50s reliability?
<Pap>
SimCity, sorry, wasn't paying attention
<Bornholio>
yall have fun
<Pap>
regex: that sounds incorrect
Bornholio is now known as Borntosleep
<Pap>
Ah, regex you must be talking about the Taerobee tank?
<Agathorn>
didn't know there was an aerobee tank
<regex>
Probably, yeah
<Agathorn>
I always made it myself
<Agathorn>
50s is the very first aerobee engine rioght?
<soundnfury>
Agathorn: R Joke loading error 0:1
<regex>
I suppose I'll do the same
<Agathorn>
perhaps this tank is for a lter model?
<regex>
Very first, apparently
<Pap>
regex: that is not supposed to be used with the WAC-Corporal version of the Aerobee engine. It is a later version of the Aerobee to be used with the XASR-1 and AJ10-26
Mehjiir is now known as Snoozee
<regex>
Cool
<Agathorn>
soundnfury: I think reticulating splines is till my most favoritist loading message
<Starwaster>
Ok, final 1.2.2 update for Procedural Parts is up. I'll get to the 1.3.0 update soon (most or all of everything needed already done by HebaruSan)
<regex>
In science mode I can't R&D the engines, are they all at max rated burn time?
<Pap>
oooh, Starwaster, what is new or special?
<Pap>
Starwaster: how many times have I asked you to add a Procedural Cube?
<Agathorn>
regex: rated burn time is a config value, like thrust or isp
<Starwaster>
just some category changes and minor fixes. Added some extra precision that we apparently lost in KSP 1.0? (I didn't notice)
<Agathorn>
it doesn't change except by moving to a newer engine
<Starwaster>
Pap Why do you even want one? Are you trying to make a warning buoy for the First Federation?
<regex>
So what is R&D for, MTBF?
<Agathorn>
I did at one time consider building an "engine uprating" system into TF that would let you essentially "spend": data units to uprate things like burn time, thrust, or isp but I never got aorund to it
<Pap>
Starwaster: nah, I want to build better looking Satellites and I think Cubes are the way to go
<Agathorn>
regex: first to be clear, R&D is just a paid alternative rto early testing via flight..but yes R&D gives you data units, which in turn increases the reliability of the part
<Borntosleep>
Open center procs please
<regex>
So how does that work in science mode?
<regex>
Also open center procs please
<Agathorn>
regex: in a sort of off hand way it helps burn times but very indirectly.. going past the rated burn time isn't anythign special, it just causes the momentary failure rate to increases (usually sharply but thats copnfig) so a more reliable engine would be less likely to fail right away as you exceed burn time - but really it will eventually no matter what
<Agathorn>
basically it simulkates throat burn through
<Agathorn>
center procs?
<regex>
toroids
<NathanKell>
Spiralized zucchini is pretty good when you're trying to cut carbs
<NathanKell>
Pap: I think I need to clone the Taerobee tank and make a WAC tank, at this rate
<NathanKell>
not the first or third person to hit that issue
<Agathorn>
"Pap Why do you even want one? Are you trying to make a warning buoy for the First Federation?" - BEST.NERD.COMMENT.EVER.
<Pap>
NathanKell: I think it should be removed from RO in my opinion
<Pap>
Maybe just from RP-0
<regex>
NathanKell: Welcome to our dinner menu
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: ahh, I'm lucky in that I can eat battered sausages and not put on any weight ;)
<NathanKell>
Pap: I'd hate to not have it, it's purty
<Pap>
Then yep NathanKell -> GET TO CLONING!
<lamont>
icosahedral septadecagon
<NathanKell>
Guess I gotta clone the nosecone too. Maybe not the other parts tho
<NathanKell>
ARGH
<NathanKell>
except the engine is the wrong size
<NathanKell>
It's 18in as well
<soundnfury>
lamont: great grand stellated 120-cell
<NathanKell>
can't really clone the *engine* >.>
<Pap>
Yes, it is larger
<NathanKell>
Ok, what if we do chuck it in Postwar, and remove the WAC config from that engiine?
<Pap>
NathanKell: What if we just rename them?
<NathanKell>
rename what?
<NathanKell>
The Aerobee parts?
<Pap>
NathanKell: That is where I had them, but others were confused by it
<Pap>
yes, the Taerobee Aerobee parts
<NathanKell>
They technically *are* postwar, even! :D
<NathanKell>
Unlike the A-4 :]
<NathanKell>
the 150 didn't launch until the late 1940s, if not 1950
<NathanKell>
I think what to do is move them, clone the tank at least and the nosecone and call them WAC parts, and move on
<NathanKell>
I'll do the cloning and resizing this weekend
<Pap>
Works for me
<Pap>
The Engine_Config upgrades are far along
<Pap>
The icons for the tech tree look phenomenal in game
<NathanKell>
Urf the parachute too
<NathanKell>
WAC had a chute
<NathanKell>
Pap: AWESOME!
<Pap>
Also the De-Spin module and the Science module
<NathanKell>
didn't have those
<Pap>
OK
<NathanKell>
I mean, it kinda had science, but it didn't despin AFAIK
<Starwaster>
NathanKell, do you know if the yellow cap on the S-II stage (pic follows) was only there to hoist the stage up or was that something that remained on the stage?
<NathanKell>
I do not. Quickly looked to see if there was video of S-II -> S-IVB staging but seems no
<NathanKell>
This seems to be because they ejected the film pods and parachuted them down, and obviously one from that staging event wouldn't survive
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<Starwaster>
Goddamn we're such clever creatures
<Pap>
What did "we" do?
<Starwaster>
sending people to the moon isn't enough?
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<Vekenti>
Hey guys, Im guessing that these guides on the RP-0 wiki are outdated? I followed exactly what the reaching orbit tutorial said, and my rocket has way too much power, it can escape earths orbit with just the first stage. I have the same amount of dV as the tutorial has, and my rocket is identical
<taniwha>
I'd say that going from waving a burning stick to getting to the Moon is pretty clever
<Pap>
Vekenti: that sounds like you are not playing in RSS then
<Vekenti>
ehh idk why it took pic of both monitors lol
<Pap>
Vekenti: Did you use TweakScale on any of the parts?
<Vekenti>
no, I actually keep forgetting to install tweakscale
<NathanKell>
MJ delta V looks right
<NathanKell>
Ingame it performs different?
<Pap>
Something is obviously wrong because that craft looks correct
<NathanKell>
^
<NathanKell>
RSS is installed because you can see the green out the window
<NathanKell>
Well, at least some of it is
<Vekenti>
hm
<lamont>
kopernicus not working?
<NathanKell>
err, s/window/door
<Vekenti>
I think I found a issue
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|NOMZ
<lamont>
KSP 1.2.2 or 1.3.0?
<Vekenti>
in my CKAN I have another solar system scaling mod, "Stock Size Real Solar System - Rescale", don't know how it got installed, but I think that may be the issue
<Vekenti>
I will disable and report back
<lamont>
that looks like it
<lamont>
you have to be careful with ‘recommended’ mods
<Vekenti>
I didn't install any extra mods,only the mods that RP-0 and RO recommended, so I don't know what mod would of recommended that other scale thing
<Vekenti>
hmm, well I will have to test tomorrow, did not notice the time, thank you guys and have a nice day/night/etc :D
<lamont>
i think ckan installs recommended mods of all the mods in the solution set
<Vekenti>
ah
<Vekenti>
buh bai o7
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<lamont>
so for something as complicated as RO/RP-0 you kind of need to make sure that the ckan recommendations make coherent sence
<lamont>
l8r
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<lamont>
*sense
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<taniwha>
whew, just renewed my domain for the next 10 years
<taniwha>
with 3 days to spare
<lamont>
i lost one recently
<lamont>
some domain squatter that wants $500 for it took it
<lamont>
the one i’ve had for decades though is renewed for like 10 years and on auto-renew as well
<taniwha>
ouch at the squatter
<NathanKell>
yeesh. People need to stop peopling.
<NathanKell>
( @ lamont)
<lamont>
yeah, that wasn’t one i was too sad to lose — definitely not worth $500
<lamont>
i can come up with a synonym or another domain if i want to put the site back up again
<NathanKell>
Doing a Mercury reference reentry. Not slowed more than 3-400m/s and we've already hit half our heat load
<NathanKell>
whoah.
<NathanKell>
definitely need to tune heat
<lamont>
made for funny video tho… “well lets do this ballistically now because the parachute is getting hot.. *poof*… … … what just happeend?”
<NathanKell>
Yep, looks like a bit over 1.5x the heat load we should have even for Mercury
<lamont>
i made progress figuring out the powered explicit guidance algorithm
<lamont>
unfortunately refactoring mechjeb to make ascent profiles pluggable and fixing all the issues with the current ascent autopilot has been going slower…
<NathanKell>
good progress tho, nice! :)
<lamont>
no progress today tho… woke up with some tendonitis, so i’ve been icing my wrist… gave me time to read the guidance papers though…
<taniwha>
I am currently waiting for a Saturn V to be delivered to my door :)
<lamont>
oooo nice
<taniwha>
pity I can't get in it :P
<taniwha>
and I don't imagine the Isp of ABS plastic to be very good
<lamont>
that would be more… expensive…
<NathanKell>
:D
<taniwha>
I don't imagine the neighbors would be too pleased, either
<acc>
taniwha: that must be the hell of a door you have there
<taniwha>
:)
<acc>
or is it for the frontyard? :D
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<NathanKell|AWAY>
!tell Starwaster on PP: RadarManFromTheMoon (Camel on github) did the coding, OtherBarry did a few cfgs but mostly just maintained the OP, IIRC.
<Qboid>
NathanKell|AWAY: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Starwaster>
I was just going by what was in the post in the other thread
<Qboid>
Starwaster: NathanKell|AWAY left a message for you in #RO [15.06.2017 07:59:37]: "on PP: RadarManFromTheMoon (Camel on github) did the coding, OtherBarry did a few cfgs but mostly just maintained the OP, IIRC."
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<Theysen>
I like holidays o/
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<acc>
I'm a few days away, vacation in belgium
<acc>
jfyi
<Theysen>
eat enough waffles <3
<Theysen>
and fries
<acc>
of course
<acc>
and mayonaise on everything
<Theysen>
:D
<Theysen>
Where you're going? I'd like to see Brugges one day
<Qboid>
ing principia, and getting the right subset of the RSS expanded mod requires some config surgery"
<Pap>
egg|work|egg: the plan is to add Ceres, Vesta, and the 5 largest moons of Uranus (I may not remember them all) Miranda, Oberon, Ariel, Titania, Umbriel
<egg|work|egg>
ok, that's good
<egg|work|egg>
that's very good :D
<egg|work|egg>
Pap: in fact if you add anything other than that it would stop being very good (i.e. you'd need to poke me with a stick), because I don't have support for anything else :-p
<Pap>
and the other bodies are so small that they become rather igsignificant
<egg|work|egg>
graviationally at least
<egg|work|egg>
s/via/vita
<Qboid>
egg|work|egg meant to say: gravitationally at least
<Pap>
they are even a bigger mess in stock KSP
<egg|work|egg>
huh, why?
<Pap>
they are so small with such small SOI's that they are basically "impossible" to get to
<egg|work|egg>
oooh
<egg|work|egg>
right
<egg|work|egg>
Pap: and things like 67P have another problem, which is that we don't handle really aspherical fields
<egg|work|egg>
(for now...)
<schnobs>
probably the wrong place to ask, but how's principia these days?
<egg|work|egg>
good?
<schnobs>
Last time I checked, there was no way to plan a Mars mission...
<egg|work|egg>
schnobs: it releases every new moon
<egg|work|egg>
what do you mean no way to plan a Mars mission
<schnobs>
which is well over a year ago, I should add.
<egg|work|egg>
reference frame selection has been here since times immemorial, so I'm not sure what you mean
<schnobs>
Well, I talk about *planning*
Pap is now known as Pap|AFK
<egg|work|egg>
there's a flight planner
<egg|work|egg>
if you mean "find your launch windows", that's not principia's job
<schnobs>
Likem, things you need to know before you even build the vessel.
<egg|work|egg>
principia is not a trajectory optimizer
<schnobs>
is there a trajecory optimizer for principia?
<egg|work|egg>
schnobs: principia doesn't do that, and won't foreseeably; that's the job of other mods
<egg|work|egg>
schnobs: also, unless you do really fancy multibody stuff, the way you do that "planning" normally should apply to principia too
<egg|work|egg>
esp. in RSS, you can just use real-life data
<egg|work|egg>
schnobs: I think KSPTOT has an n-body mode now, not sure how useful it is (but again, I don't understand what your question really is to start with)
<egg|work|egg>
!wpn schnobs
* Qboid
gives schnobs a diagonal foil
<Theysen>
!wpn egg|work|egg
* Qboid
gives egg|work|egg an insulating matrix
<schnobs>
let me put it differently. Using a node editor, a transfer planner, and Hyperedit I can plan a mission in great detail, years in advance. Down to every single maneuver.
<schnobs>
Is there any kind of infrastructure in the principia world that allows me to do the same?
<egg|work|egg>
O_o I had no idea people used hyperedit for flight planning
<schnobs>
Because frankly, "launch at about the right date and make things up as you go" is entirely too Kerbal.
<egg|work|egg>
well, you could use KSPTOT
<schnobs>
Well I can Hyperedit a probe into place, to mark (eg) my departure orbit I want to launch into.
<egg|work|egg>
(also with non-principia)
<egg|work|egg>
not sure what you mean by a transfer planner
<schnobs>
porkchop plotter.
<egg|work|egg>
if you mean porkchops, then either they'll just work out of the box (if things are sufficiently 2-body), or they won't and there's nothing that can replace them
<egg|work|egg>
in most cases they should work
<egg|work|egg>
if you're doing low-energy transfer fanciness, they won't
<schnobs>
Well, I tried it exactly once. Maybe I really hit a fancy launch window where things wouldn't work out.
<egg|work|egg>
it's not about launch windows mostly, it's about the sort of transfer you're doing
<egg|work|egg>
if you do things the usual way, the normal window planning should work
<Qboid>
Bornholio: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<leudaimon>
!tell Pap When I completed my first EVA contract, the first rendezvous also completed. I'm guessing the contract is considering the kerbal and the spacecraft are two separate crafts in rendezvous?
<Qboid>
leudaimon: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
leudaimon: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [14.06.2017 03:18:45]: "be careful with lifting reentries (or reentry generally). Heat is too strong atm so you may pop."
<Qboid>
leudaimon: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [14.06.2017 03:28:39]: "to be clear: it appears to be either that heat per se is too much or, more likely, a skin->int conduction issue. It's not a problem for steep reentries where there's not much time to conduct, but it makes lifitng reentries rather worse than they should be--making an X-15 parts spaceplane that worked earlier impossible, and poppin
<Qboid>
g a Mk1 on a lifting reentry that it used"
<leudaimon>
!tell NathanKell soundnfury rsparkyc I'm getting into a very busy period for the next days, and I won't have time to keep up with RtS. Guess I'll leave the game to don't delay you guys.
<Qboid>
leudaimon: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<rsparkyc>
but you're winning
<leudaimon>
yeah, it's a shame, but I can't keep up...
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<leudaimon>
btw, I'm having a strange issue... I was getting to old upperstages in LEO, to look for launch windows, and whenever I get to them from the tracking station they explode
<rsparkyc>
what does F3 say?
<Agathorn>
!tell ferram4 Is there a relatively easy (for me!) way to estimate the reynold's number for a typical rocket during ascent based on velocity? Given we know a typical shape, and we know the poroperties of the atmosphere.
<Qboid>
Agathorn: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<ferram4>
Agathorn, easiest way is to base it on the rocket's length. You know the atmospheric density, you should know its viscosity, with the rocket length you have a reference length, and then all you need is velocity and you're good.
<Qboid>
ferram4: Agathorn left a message for you in #RO [15.06.2017 15:08:28]: "Is there a relatively easy (for me!) way to estimate the reynold's number for a typical rocket during ascent based on velocity? Given we know a typical shape, and we know the poroperties of the atmosphere."
<Agathorn>
yeah thats what I figured but the equation on wikipedia was confusing me
<leudaimon>
rsparkyc, procedural tank exploded due to overheating 107434/800 K
<leudaimon>
in most cases the fairing base or interstage and the avionics survive
<Agathorn>
ferram4: the equation asks for dynamic viscosity and kinematic viscosity and I had no oidea what those were
<TheKosmonaut>
rsparkyc: Hey you are taking over RP-0?
<ferram4>
kinematic viscosity = dynamic viscosity / density
<ferram4>
Most places list down the dynamic viscosity for things.
<Agathorn>
ahh so I can look it up
<Agathorn>
excellent
<Agathorn>
thanks!
<Bornholio>
Strarwaster: /me points at leudaimon, see tanks exploding when loading.
<Bornholio>
leudaimon are you using DRE 7.6.0 -5 7.5.0?
<Bornholio>
s/-5/or
<Qboid>
Bornholio meant to say: leudaimon are you using DRE 7.6.0 or 7.5.0?
<rsparkyc>
TheKosmonaut: I'm just maintaining the top post. Most of the changes in RP-0 lately have come from procedural avionics (which I wrote and maintain), so that's why I took over the post instead of getting a mod to change the title each time
<leudaimon>
Bornholio, oh, I think I downloaded 7.6 just before this issue started
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<Bornholio>
.poke starwaster
<Bornholio>
Starwaster: /me points at leudaimon, see tanks exploding when loading.
<rsparkyc>
let me see if i can replicate, i think i just got 7.6
<leudaimon>
yep Starwaster, after getting DRE 7.6
<Bornholio>
it happened for me then stopped
<Starwaster>
what temperature were the tanks at when they exploded?
<leudaimon>
I loaded a craft in LEO, and as soon as it loaded the tank exploded at 107434/800 K
<Bornholio>
my puny 4k is nothing1
<Starwaster>
do you have a save file that has the craft in it before exploding?
<Starwaster>
yEs, EvErY oThEr LeTtEr NeEdS tO bE CaPpEd
<Starwaster>
if you load that file does it consistently explode?
<Starwaster>
and whta's the name of the craft?
<leudaimon>
all crafts in LEO I loaded had their tanks exploding
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<leudaimon>
I'll load this exact file and check if that also happens
<leudaimon>
it's a previous save before the issue appeared
<Starwaster>
name of craft?
<Starwaster>
I can't tell without loading it which ones are in LEO
<leudaimon>
oh, I'm opening ksp, just a min
<Starwaster>
well I guess if I go look at each one I could probably figure it out...
<Starwaster>
hmmm that was saved under DRE 7.5...
<Bornholio>
when i had the issue was also 7.5.0
<leudaimon>
ok, LV-1 polar probe
<leudaimon>
yeah...
<leudaimon>
the issue appeared for me when I got 7.6
<regex>
Can anyone tell me if Pap's tech tree is already "compiled" or do I need to do that manually?
<Theysen>
it's a .cfg inside the branch
<Theysen>
and delete Community Tech Tree before playing with Pap's
<Theysen>
regex ^
<regex>
So it's already "compiled", I only move the cfg into the existing RP-0 folder, and I need to remove the CTT mod?
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<leudaimon>
regex, if you download the branch with the new tree, you can just save the RP0 folder into Gamedata, no need to change files... and remove CTT
<regex>
Okay great. Thanks for the help you guys.
<Starwaster>
ok leudaimon I'm going to test a theory, it'll take me a bit to load up
<leudaimon>
no worries Starwaster, thanks for looking into it
<Starwaster>
frankly, it's really odd because, DRE 7.6 has even FEWER places where it actually modifies temperatures at all things on fire don't actually increase temperature. Instead they get 'damaged',
<Starwaster>
first skin takes damage and even then it doesn't get destroyed unless every side of the craft has maximum damage. but that happens IF the skin temperature is above its max operating temp; it doesn't itself ever increase temperature
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<Starwaster>
IFF the skin has damage AND has convection heating, it can directly modify the interior of the craft. So, not in orbit and only if skin is damaged
<leudaimon>
weird... any idea of what other mod could be causing that? I don't remember having updated anything else
<Starwaster>
something in orbit and going to 7.6 from 7.5 doesn't meet the criteria. It has no damage because I recorded damage differently. If anything, if it had damage in 7.5 it would get magically healed in 7.6 because I didn't do any sort of conversion when updating
<Starwaster>
theoretically Real Fuels could, if I had reversed a sign in the boiloff code so that heat loss became heat gain
<Starwaster>
theoretically
<Starwaster>
but it would have to be a cryogenic tank and it would have to be unloaded a REALLY long time
<leudaimon>
let's say 100000 K is not a subtle heating, right?
<leudaimon>
not cryogenic, and it was unloaded for months, 1 year at most
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<Bornholio>
how about ambient gain but lower mass becasue of boiloff
<Starwaster>
are you sure it had no cryogenics? I don't mean tank type = cryogenics, even one tank of LOX qualifies it
<leudaimon>
It's likely they had LOX
<leudaimon>
I can try to find a craft with hypergolics only to see if it also explodes
<Starwaster>
I think I need a log file too where you load up the save, go to the ship, it explodes then quit then give me the log
<leudaimon>
you are right... I loaded a probe with hypergolics only and it worked fine
<leudaimon>
I'll do that
<Starwaster>
duplicated it
<leudaimon>
still need the log? just managed to make it
<Starwaster>
yeah every bit of data helps
<Starwaster>
it's not an issue going from DRE 7.5 to 7.6 though, pretty sure of that
<Starwaster>
holy crap this thing is still cooling. I just reloaded it after using the temperature cheat
<Starwaster>
it's ungodly hot
<Bornholio>
lol i know mine too forever even with cryocoolers and radiators
<leudaimon>
got to go now... thanks for looking into it
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<Starwaster>
bornholio you said you had the same thing happened? Was this also when playing RIS?
<Bornholio>
no remeber the one i posted in your DRE thread
<Bornholio>
It was pretty bad, and then after that i could not duplicate it.
<regex>
!tell Pap I notice the interstage fairing base is missing from the starting node, which makes it kind of hard to build a decent looking rocket with the A-4 or either of the RD-100s.
<Qboid>
regex: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Agathorn>
regex: Do you use procedural fairings?
<regex>
Yes
<regex>
Am I not supposed to?
<Agathorn>
yeah
<Agathorn>
was just curious because I had the same problem when I was NOT using PF and was told I should be and that is where the interstages were
<Agathorn>
but I never confirmed it
<Agathorn>
becuase I don't like PF :)
<Starwaster>
this is amazing, LOX is being un-boiled
<Starwaster>
holy fuck
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<Starwaster>
from 103 liters up to 3400 liters being unboiled
<xShadowx>
Starwaster: HAX
<Starwaster>
OMGHAX
<xShadowx>
you're obviously collecting it from space
<Starwaster>
pretty sure this has nothing to do with DRE... I bet if I uninstall it this still happens :(
<xShadowx>
all those stray particles
<Starwaster>
SWEET! Now we can have bussard ramjets!
<Bornholio>
lol You can't have 0K but Negative temperatures mean an inverted distribution of kinematic velocities in the gas
<Starwaster>
yeah I think I broke physics here
<Bornholio>
its sucking them in!
<regex>
Agathorn, weird. I'm so used to having the interstage fairings in the starting node. Someone even put in a short fairing base for me, whether that was from my idea or whatever I don't care, I used to have to patch that in myself.
<regex>
But Pap's tree doesn't have them so my A-4 will fly naked.
<regex>
Probably just a case of "in progress", which is fine.
<Bornholio>
regex is flying naked, watch out bad visual image inbound
<regex>
Yeah, I'm not digging up incriminating photos from my youth for you.
<Bornholio>
ha yes thanks
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<CobaltWolf>
hey y'all, how's things?
<rsparkyc>
Starwaster broke physincs
<rsparkyc>
s/physincs/physic
<Qboid>
rsparkyc meant to say: Starwaster broke physic
<rsparkyc>
ugh, fail again
<rsparkyc>
i broke english
<Bornholio>
well leudaimon did SW is just duplicating it
<CobaltWolf>
oh?
<rsparkyc>
he said he broke physics
<rsparkyc>
that means it's a good day :)
<Bornholio>
negative boiloff counts
<rsparkyc>
it's just placed in the wrong tech node
<Starwaster>
bornholio yes but this has to be my code doing it so I broke physics first
<Bornholio>
good point
<Starwaster>
and it's confirmed, it's not deadly reentry
<Bornholio>
real fuels?
<CobaltWolf>
well for my part I finally got the Skylab ATM done http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/122020-13-bluedog-design-bureau-stockalike-saturn-apollo-and-more-v12-%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0-3jun2017/&page=349#comment-3092004
<Starwaster>
yeah it's got to be real fuels
<Starwaster>
I mean, the negative boiloff is a dead give away
<Bornholio>
Well drop in a zero boiloff .cfg and see if that fixes it to isolate that part overheat on load?
<Agathorn>
regex: no I agree there should be something there in the start
<regex>
Yeah, didn't think you were disagreeing.
<Starwaster>
bornholio might go off the air here, I hear thunder
<regex>
Oh, it's in Early materials science, hrm...
<Bornholio>
good luck.
<Starwaster>
!tell leudaimon it's not Deadly Reentry, it's Real Fuels. Craft unloaded for a long period of time are unboiling cryogenics which causes heat to be gained. Will look into it when I can
<Qboid>
Starwaster: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Starwaster>
the problem as I see it is that resource is being added instead of lost which results in heat being gained.
<Bornholio>
does it do catch up calulation on load?
<Starwaster>
what it's doing is analytic mode on load.
<Rounan>
Hey all, I just started up a 1.2.2 RP-0 campaign and i'm loving it. Having a bit of frustration around the TestFlight rated burn times on the tier-0 rockets, since those seem to prevent achieving a low-enough TWR on sustainer stages.
<Bornholio>
so same for high timewarp
<Rounan>
Do the rated times ever improve with R&D? The MTBF can be pushed waaaaay up with enough data, but I still can't seem to keep a WAC alive for longer than 1:20 or so
<Agathorn>
no
<Agathorn>
early engines essentially tear themselves apart if they are run for too long
<Rounan>
Is this WAD? Tier-0 is only there for 3-4 missions so you can limp along to 15 science, then it's expected you'll just hit "warp" until Early construction and Early Orbital Rocketry are unlocked?
<Agathorn>
that said you should be moving out of those very eaarliest engines pretty quickly
<Rounan>
... Which is, like, a year?
<Agathorn>
Its what I do.. not sure if that is as designed or not
<Rounan>
yeah, I want to! But nothing's unlocked yet since research takes along time
<lamont>
dump early money into R&D points so its faster than a year
<Bornholio>
earn monies spend on research rate!
<soundnfury>
!tell leudaimon I think we can wait for you to have time to catch up. I'm having to wait _anyway_, 'cos you're _all_ slow ;)
<Qboid>
soundnfury: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Rounan>
Ah, I see. I haven't been buying additional upgrade points, not super-familiar with KCT
<lamont>
although you also want to get the launchpad, admin and tracking station upgrades bought reasonably early
<soundnfury>
!tell leudaimon also, to !tell multiple people, use commas not spaces
<Qboid>
soundnfury: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<lamont>
check NKs old RP-0 playthrough and his recently RIS campaign
<Rounan>
yeah, that's my stock-trained experience: don't spend money on other-than-launches until you can upgrade launchpad
<lamont>
you want science rate upgrades initially a bit more i think
<Rounan>
I've been following along with NK's vids, yeah! Very helpful. But also very long-form, I don't think I can wade through 20+ hours of video to fully understand....
<schnobs>
Rounan: early on, money is tight as well. You want a better pad, tracking, mission control for the first moonshot. Which can happen shortly after 1st satellite, tech-wise.
<schnobs>
Only that building these will *also* take a year or more.
<Rounan>
Right. Maybe my problem is just the optimizer's discomfort with that "warp" button
<schnobs>
So yeah, make a few sounding rockets work, then fast-forward.
<Rounan>
Rockets take years to develop? Whaaaaaat, but I can has launch now! :P
<schnobs>
Rounan: nope.
<schnobs>
The facilities take a year+.
<Starwaster>
bornholio no it's not the same as time warp analytic. That's just a case of not being able to properly calculate the temperature change. This is a case where the time delta was so great that heat loss was equally great and apparently some value is getting wrapped somewhere
<lamont>
you can look at the first few episodes of the current RIS game for ideas about crazy things to do with the tier 0 A4 engines
<Starwaster>
I need to clamp temperatures and fluxes
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<Rounan>
lamont: Yeah, I've got a couple A4 monstrosities... Hoping for my first crewed sounding rocket on a 2xA4 booster + A4 sustainer, lit as boosters burn out
<schnobs>
The rockets... well, if you can launch a satellite you can also go for the moon. But you definitely want maneuver nodes (mission control + tracking station), and trying to squeeze it into less then 40t is a lot of extra work, so you probably want a bigger pad as well.
<Rounan>
but I don't know if I can ever put a kerbal on an A4 given the reliability.... which I guess is realistic and makes total sense. :)
<Bornholio>
Is the boiloff rate defined as a DP float with sign, if so can you change that to a scaled integer. Assuming the problem is purely negative boiloff
<Bornholio>
starwaster^
<lamont>
i think mission control + tracking + pad will all unlock simultaneously as well so you can buy them all at the same time
<lamont>
but the cheaper the upgrade the faster it completes, so mission control can be put off a bit (and BP upgrades for making rockets faster unlocks building upgrades faster — but tech speed is usually more important in early game once you’ve sunk a few points into BP)
<Rounan>
lamont: OK, thanks for the tips
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<Agathorn>
no such thing as a crewed sounding rocket
<Agathorn>
a sounding rocket almost by definition is uncrewed :)
<Starwaster>
bornholio I think I found the problem: double cooling = analyticalMode ? Math.Max(0, part.thermalInternalFluxPrevious) : 0;
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<Starwaster>
never mind what I said about the unboiling, that only happened because I turned on temperature cheat for debugging. insane amount of heat turned into insane amount of reversed cooling
<rsparkyc>
aww
<Starwaster>
actually let me amend what I told liedamon...
<Starwaster>
!tell leudaimon Forget the part about the unboiling, that only happened because I had the temperature cheat on.
<Qboid>
Starwaster: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Theysen>
or it is based on quality of the answer HAHA
<rsparkyc>
mine was older
<rsparkyc>
37 minutes vs 36
<rsparkyc>
so i was first…
<Theysen>
I should go out of the soon
<Theysen>
* SUN
<rsparkyc>
get?
<rsparkyc>
get out in the sun?
<Theysen>
I probably need to reboot
<Theysen>
my brain
<rsparkyc>
haha
<Rounan>
Agathorn: Heh, it's "crewed" because it has a Junkers cockpit on it with shuttlecock-style re-entry features, but it's a "sounding rocket" because not even Jeb has the balls to ride the thing until I can put it on top of a more reliable engine. :)
<Rounan>
Just a test bed for a suborbital re-entry module
<Agathorn>
ok but tyypically Sounding Rocket specifically means a smaller uncrewed rocket with a science instrumentation payload launched for study and analysis :)
<Rounan>
haha, no no I'm sure you're right! I'm not pushing to redefine your term. :)
<Agathorn>
What you basically mean is "small low tech cheap ass rocket" :)
<egg>
NathanKell|WORK: oh hey, you managed to get webchat at work :-)
<egg>
NathanKell|WORK: you're like egg|work|egg :-p
<egg>
NathanKell|WORK: though egg|work|egg doesn't say so in the hostname
<CobaltWolf>
NathanKell|WORK: Hey! Any word from Chris? Might need you to prod him a bit
<Agathorn>
poor guy gets bombarded :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
CobaltWolf: He's in the discord I thought?
<CobaltWolf>
NathanKell|WORK: He has not come online since that Monday? I never expected him to poke his head in there again so it didn't surprise me. I'm really just worried about getting the files we talked about then letting him be
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<rsparkyc>
hey NathanKell|WORK, i'm actually listening to you now:
<Agathorn>
everythign I read about calculating drag says that the drag coefficient is dependant on the reynold's number. Yet nowhere can I find the equation for calculating the drag coefficient
<rsparkyc>
i figured they just threw it in a wind tunnel
<Agathorn>
I see plenty of constant coefficients in examples, but nothing for calculating one for a given shape from the reynolds number
<rsparkyc>
yeah, fluid dynamics is hard
<Borntowork>
let me grab a book. fluid dynamics is a somewhat fun
<rsparkyc>
probably harder than rocket science :)
<Agathorn>
fluid dynamics is scary as shit lol
<Starwaster>
rsparkyc I think a lot of that is just emperical :(
<Agathorn>
I'm just trying to get the absolute basics enough to apprximate the Cd
<Borntowork>
are you calculating from fixed shaes
<Borntowork>
shapes
<Agathorn>
yeah
<Agathorn>
always the same shape in fact.. i'm goign to use an ideal rocket shape really
<Agathorn>
I could probably get away even with just using a constant Cd, but the reading i've doen shows that it does change drasticaly over velocity
<Borntowork>
so that flow over an imersed body
<Agathorn>
so i'd like to simulate that if I can.. I could use a LUT I guess
<Agathorn>
worst come to worst I could just encode that as a look up table or a complex curve to evaluate
<Agathorn>
but was kind of curious how to actually calculate it from known values
<Borntowork>
and in this case "rockets" entirely turbulent, horribly Re and Relative roughness are needed for Cd in that case
<Agathorn>
some constants are fine.. I don't need utter simulation, just believable approximation
<Borntowork>
so sharp pointed ogive
<Borntowork>
would Cd as a function of mach number be what you need or a static value?
<Agathorn>
function of mach number would be ideal.. or function of reynolds number as I am pretty sure I can properly calculate that
<Agathorn>
I have code in place to calculate it and it should work on other bodies with an atmosphere as well
<Agathorn>
though untested at the moment
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<Pap>
o/
<Qboid>
Pap: leudaimon left a message for you in #RO [15.06.2017 14:49:12]: "When I completed my first EVA contract, the first rendezvous also completed. I'm guessing the contract is considering the kerbal and the spacecraft are two separate crafts in rendezvous?"
<Qboid>
Pap: regex left a message for you in #RO [15.06.2017 16:47:58]: "I notice the interstage fairing base is missing from the starting node, which makes it kind of hard to build a decent looking rocket with the A-4 or either of the RD-100s."
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<Borntowork>
agathorn for some shapes say a sphere its as easy as Cd=24/Re, trying to figure out how to simplify your case. nosecones have lots of available info online.
<Agathorn>
sure there are lots of GRAPHS of the Cd for a rocket like shape
<Agathorn>
but I either need to figure out how to calculate that graph myself, or encode it as a constant curve
<Agathorn>
I can do the later, but was hoping to do the former if possible
<Agathorn>
maybe it isn't though
<Borntowork>
Do you have a Cd for the rocket shape you are estimating? or is that dynamic
<Agathorn>
It will always be the same Cd for every rocket most likely - I don't think they vary enough for me to worry about
<Borntowork>
If thats the case Cd=N/Re if you know the Cd and Re at the specific case you can Come up with the constant N to calculate Cd in other cases given a change in Re. Otherwise its Drag/1/2pU^2*pi/4D^2
<Borntowork>
gets hairy easy. Thus why wind tunnels are busy.
<Starwaster>
does MKS inflatables still look like unfolding origami?
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<Starwaster>
did Nathan clone himself?
<rsparkyc>
Starwaster: different computers probably
<rsparkyc>
i wish i had a good enough computer that I could leave at home just for KSP
<rsparkyc>
I'd livestream more
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<Starwaster>
rsparkyc Damn, what a killjoy mundane explanation :( I like mine better!
<rsparkyc>
haha
<rsparkyc>
yes, we have a clone of NathanKell
<Borntowork>
tie machine
<Borntowork>
time
<rsparkyc>
i want a tie machine
<Borntowork>
thinks about making robot tie a tie.....
<Starwaster>
twin ion engine machine?
<Pap>
NathanKell|AWAY, NathanKell|WORK, and others, here are the custom Engine Icons for the Hydrolox, Orbital Rocketry and Staged Combustion lines: http://i.imgur.com/ZjYN1oz.png
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<Borntowork>
gosh darn pretty
<rsparkyc>
icons galore
<Starwaster>
Ok people, so listen up. There's a big bug in Real Fuels boiloff that hits if a tank has been unloaded a really long time, maybe only if it's a Procedural tank. If you need an emergency fix, use this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jw27k5004rxpih3/RealFuels.dll?dl=1
<Pap>
Also, you can see the Engine Config upgrades in there as well
<NathanKell|WORK>
ya, instead of properly using a bouncer I just leave mIRC connected 24/7
<NathanKell|WORK>
(I mean, I'm using Thomas's bouncer. But I can't connect to it at work, and at home it's easier to VNC in than to have a second client on my laptop)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap those are awesome! :)
<schnobs>
what is it everyone's adoring?
<Pap>
Thanks NathanKell|WORK, I think they turned out well! Some are hard to distinguish beucase they are sinlge color, but otherwise, I am really happy with them
<schnobs>
Also, LOL at the nodes being orderly placed and the tree still being a mess.
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<Pap>
thank's schnobs
<Pap>
I do not think there is a way to clean it up any more than that!
<schnobs>
or tangle? Don't want to pull down anybody's work.
<egg>
!wpn NathanKell|WORK
* Qboid
gives NathanKell|WORK an oxygen ferram4
<leudaimon>
o/ Pap!
<Qboid>
leudaimon: soundnfury left a message for you in #RO [15.06.2017 17:15:52]: "I think we can wait for you to have time to catch up. I'm having to wait _anyway_, 'cos you're _all_ slow ;)"
<Qboid>
leudaimon: Starwaster left a message for you in #RO [15.06.2017 17:10:30]: "it's not Deadly Reentry, it's Real Fuels. Craft unloaded for a long period of time are unboiling cryogenics which causes heat to be gained. Will look into it when I can"
<Qboid>
leudaimon: soundnfury left a message for you in #RO [15.06.2017 17:16:40]: "also, to !tell multiple people, use commas not spaces"
<Qboid>
leudaimon: Starwaster left a message for you in #RO [15.06.2017 17:39:23]: "Forget the part about the unboiling, that only happened because I had the temperature cheat on."
<Pap>
Hey leudaimon!
<Pap>
I got your message about the contract, I will be looking into that one for sure, NK had an issue with it as well
<leudaimon>
oh cool
<leudaimon>
that's the only explanation I think... and if he got the same, makes sense
<leudaimon>
Starwaster, what do you mean about unboiling being related to temperature cheat?
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<Pap>
Starwaster: were you looking for a heatshield with landing legs?
<Pap>
schnobs: without being able to control how KSP places their arrows from parent to child, I am at a loss how to have dependencies without having a tangle
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] rsparkyc pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vHAvn
<Pap>
Borntowork: I don't have a great plan. I tried to see what I could use from there, but they are all very plain and boring looking. The icons do not turn out well
<rsparkyc>
i'd just use a procedural solid silhouette, perhaps with a nosecone?
<Borntowork>
they all look pretty similar
<rsparkyc>
RO PRs are piling up again
<rsparkyc>
I merged one, left a comment on another, and asked the people in the discussion on a 3rd if it looks good now
<Theysen>
I got merged \o/
<Theysen>
I wonder why none of the RiTs players got triggered by that thing earlier, or don't they use the 1 kN thruster? :P
<Starwaster>
leudaimon forget that, unremember it.
<leudaimon>
lol ok
<rsparkyc>
i just got used to it being wrong
<Starwaster>
the real problem was that analytic temperature was happening before procedural tanks had their area calculated
<Theysen>
rsparkyc, haha
<rsparkyc>
i kinda pretended it was like a single shock diamon
<Starwaster>
and because I didn't think that was possible, it is -1 by default so that the code knows to calculate the area when initializing
<rsparkyc>
*diamond
<rsparkyc>
in a vacuum...
<Theysen>
Got word back from Zarbizaure about his Forgotten Real Engines mod, he will upload to Git soon, for anyone who wants to know :) I can then fix some issues for 1.2.2
<leudaimon>
oh, so the problem was DRE?
<Starwaster>
-1 area * incoming heat flux = outgoing heat flux = mass gain instead of mass loss (because even though I check that heat IS incoming, the negative area thing flipped it)
<Starwaster>
no the problem is Real Fuels and Procedural parts
<Starwaster>
download that RealFuels.dll
<Starwaster>
copy that over
<leudaimon>
oh, thanks!
<Starwaster>
that puts an extra check in to make sure that area GETS calculated before trying to do boiloff and if for any reason that fails then it just wont try to do boiloff
<Starwaster>
though it really shouldnt because even if it can't find the area, it will default to the smallest possible area (a sphere)
<egg>
somehow ferram4 didn't make a Bernoulli version, so there's no issue there
<rsparkyc>
lol
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<schnobs>
riddle me this.
<schnobs>
Unpacked a shiny new KSP folder. Dropped in CKAN. CKAN won't launch.
<schnobs>
CKAN from my previous install will, however (same binary, checksum matches) -- point it to the new install and it works. Huh?
<Agathorn>
have the forums started going mad yet?
<schnobs>
at what?
<Agathorn>
"Grand Theft Auto modding project folds following Take-Two’s demands
<Agathorn>
Dev says Take-Two told him that modding games is “an illegal activity.”"
<schnobs>
reddit is mad like hell. didn't check the forums.
<Agathorn>
heh
<Agathorn>
those of you who thrive on tears (*cough*regex*cough*) should be on the prowl i'd say
<Theysen>
schnobs, close all windows via minimize and see if the Update Dialogue popped up from CKAN
<Theysen>
it likes to hide
<gazpachian>
I heard the authenticity of the C&D was called into question though, apparently Take-Two have no idea what's going on and it was riddled with spelling errors or whatever
<Agathorn>
Hah that'd be a great plot twist
<Agathorn>
it DOES seem rather extreme
<Agathorn>
plot twist: Its all fake news caused by a KSP player
<NathanKell|WORK>
Mods are good for KSP's business model only until DLC, tbh
<Borntowork>
just hope they don't roll a paradox
<Agathorn>
I still beleive both can coexist at once.. the key factor though is producing valuable DLC
<Agathorn>
funny I think Paradox is a perfect example of both mods and dlc coexisting
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yes, Paradox does show the way forward there
<Borntowork>
if you want to pay 400 to play a game yes
<Theysen>
* EX-SQUAD DEV CONFIRMS DLCS WILL MARK THE END OF THE MODDING FREEDOM" Am I doing this right?
<NathanKell|WORK>
But Paradox for its firstparty games don't have deep mods like KSP does
<NathanKell|WORK>
just cfg/UI, not code
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<gazpachian>
nathankell, the CK2 GoT mod would like to have a word with you
<waerloga>
I think paradox is walking the DLC line fairly well
<Agathorn>
Borntowork: sorry but you just sound like oen of those people who thinks developers should instead continue to expand a game over decades for free
<gazpachian>
also, stellaris star trek horizons
<waerloga>
games are getting updates and improvements for years and they split up their "meat" and "fluff" DLCs
<Agathorn>
Paradox is doign it exactly like it should be done IMHO. They use DLC as a business plan that allows the company to continue supporting, expanding, and ennhancing a game for literally decades - long beyond when a normal DLC free game would stop caring
<Borntowork>
no, but i've bought everything Paradox for many years, and with Stellaris and Hoi4 i'm done.
<waerloga>
yeah, CK2 is what? 6 years old by now?
<Agathorn>
The flip side is you buy the base game, and it never changes from that day
<Borntowork>
The erased wholesale the mod forums for HOI3
<waerloga>
Agathorn: sure it does
<waerloga>
even before I bought the DLCs, EU4 is a vastly improved and different game
<Agathorn>
waerloga: no i'm saying the alternative to a Paradox DLC model
<gazpachian>
yeah, something like half the content of each mod patch is free
<waerloga>
Agathorn: aaah..yeah
<gazpachian>
ah, gotcha
<NathanKell|WORK>
Borntowork: Eh? How recently? I grabbed some mods for HOI3 recently...
<Agathorn>
With paradox you an just not buy the DLCs.. its that simple
<Theysen>
will the KSP DLC be different from that?
<Theysen>
It surely sounded purely optional afaict
<Borntowork>
did they retore all the forums they erases cause black ice i had to go off site to get it last time
<Agathorn>
now yes sometimes there is argument to be made that a DLC doesn't add enough content for its price, and that is up to you to decide. And IMHO that is where DLC and Mods coexist.. Mods in a way prevent blatant fluff cash grab DLC
<Agathorn>
well not prevent, but deter at any rate
<NathanKell|WORK>
Borntowork: I just had to link my steam account and they came up again
<gazpachian>
agathorn: like Dwemer mudcrabs!
<Borntowork>
linked my steam and paradox and old paradox on day one for each.
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<Borntowork>
nathanKell|WORK still not seeing any Modder forums left for HOI3, just one single throw it all in place. Of course their whole new forum suck anyway compared to the old one without proper sub forums