<Rokker>
Bornholio: the museum has a pretty special bomber that was produced at offutt
<Rokker>
(Bockscar)
<Bornholio>
Rokker well i did spend all day saturday cleaning up wind damage debris. last three days trying to get shattered limbs out of my trees
* Rokker
stares at taniwha and TheKosmonaut
<Bornholio>
Bockscar is very nice
blowfish has joined #RO
<Rokker>
Bornholio: I met a guy at the museum once who was in SAC and his job was getting squadrons switched over from the B-36 to the B-52
<Rokker>
and he was based out of offutt when he wasnt going around doing that
<Bornholio>
well i had a friend whos grandfather and father were crewchiefs on the smae plane, he could have a son/daughter that would be old enough to be fourth gen on that same bomber.
<Bornholio>
and planners have it slated for 20 more
<Rokker>
Bornholio: the year is 2145. the USAF still has not found a suitable replacement for the B-52. they also have still not decided on a replacement engine.
<Pap>
lol
<Bornholio>
lol no kidding, it does the job of fly anywhere on planet and drop bombs. My equipment (ECM) will be replaced three times over
<xShadowx>
bismark died to a biplane, just because a plane is old doesnt mean it aint useful ;p
<Bornholio>
well they will start having spine problems at some point. everything else can and has been replaced multiple times
<Rokker>
Bornholio: i hear that when they are upgrading parts of a B-52 or upgrading to a new variant that they have to call in a bunch of the original engineers and maintenance workers because they dont know entirely what everything does
<Pap>
Yes xShadowx but Bismark to a biplane was about a 20 year difference, we are talking, what, 60 years at this point?
<Rokker>
fun fact
<Pap>
Has the cockpit been modernized? It has had to, correct?
<Rokker>
the B-52 was designed over a weekend in a dayton hotel room
<xShadowx>
Pap: thats more due to we smacked everyone and nobody to compete with them :P
<Bornholio>
Rokker i doubt that is really true. there is pretty heavy training and guys in the field can replace every part but the spine
<Rokker>
well the basics were at least
<Rokker>
Bornholio: probably not true, but its what ive heard
<Bornholio>
nothing like comming in on a heavy crosswind on that thing, crabbed out 20 degrees or more
<Bornholio>
If you get a chance to watch one take off, thats the most impressive thing, wingtips on a fully loaded buff flexsomething like 30 feet up, go from smashing the tip landing gear in pavement to curved upward.
<Rokker>
Bornholio: unfortunately i missed my chance. the dayton air show used to have em a lot but the air show has been struggling a lot lately
<Bornholio>
barksdale... should be everyday
<Pap>
Rokker: A lot of that had to do with them not allowing military planes in air shows anymore from a few years ago
<Pap>
Chicago used to have a great Air & Water show as well
<Bornholio>
well i saw my squadron loose four pilots due to airshow piloting, guy at the stick was reckless, flew with him once and that was exciting. and all against flying regs
<Rokker>
Pap: nah
<Rokker>
Pap: it was going downhill before the temporary sequestration
<Rokker>
Pap: by the way, fuck the sequestration
<Rokker>
cut me off from a quarter of the museum for like 2 years
<acc>
humans make mistakes. that's why air shows near a crowded area will end at some point in a disaster. maybe not each time, but at some point shit will happen. it's impressive and all that, but extremly risky
<Bornholio>
the guy i watched make a mistake should not have been flying, so risks can be reduced.
<acc>
of course. but the risk compared to the value of the show is like way over the top
egg is now known as egg|zzz|egg
<Saabstory88>
Beggnining tank model/tank production for Stretchy RP-0 tanks. Might have something to publish withing ~2 weeks or so
<Bornholio>
cool
TM1978m has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<rsparkyc>
so, apparently trying to change the root part is freezing ksp for me
Saabstory88 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
leudaimon has joined #RO
Saabstory88 has joined #RO
<leudaimon>
o/
Wetmelon has joined #RO
<KevinStarwaster>
the root part of your rocket?
<rsparkyc>
yes
<Pap>
looking foward to it Saabstory88
<Pap>
rsparkyc: I have had that issue when trying to change the root part to a procedural before
<rsparkyc>
hmm, let me try a non procedural
<rsparkyc>
nope, still dies
<Pap>
ah, damn
<rsparkyc>
word of advice, if you're going to live with someone, marry them…
Moistmelon has joined #RO
<rsparkyc>
trying to get stuff back from my brothers ex-girlfriends place is becoming difficult
<Pap>
rsparkyc: some people just suck
<rsparkyc>
at least if it were a spouse, we would have no legal right
<rsparkyc>
then it would be a non-issue
<rsparkyc>
i don't want to say she sucks, she want's something to hold on to
<rsparkyc>
even though she said she was leaving him...
<rsparkyc>
what a tangled web we weave
<rsparkyc>
back to rockets :)
Wetmelon has quit [Ping timeout: 383 seconds]
<KevinStarwaster>
pap you probably shouldnt change your root to a procedural It would be bad.
<Pap>
Yeah, I think I did it to try and merge, wasn't for a craft I was flying
Moistmelon has quit [Ping timeout: 200 seconds]
Moistmelon has joined #RO
Moistmelon has quit [Ping timeout: 383 seconds]
<Saabstory88>
Pap: Just need to make some stylistic decisions :P
Hypergolic_Skunk has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<Agathorn>
Ok I guess I didn't know what I was getting into with this Lego Saturn V, having never done a big lego set. But oh my gosh. 195 pages manual. This is going to take a while.
<Pap>
Yeah, I have heard about that
<Agathorn>
any c# guys around?
<Saabstory88>
Just Javascript over here, but wadya got?
<Agathorn>
eh its pretty c# specific i'm afraid
<Agathorn>
trying to figure out why a property attribute is being seen despite not having a using statement that would make it visible
<Saabstory88>
Snippet?
<Agathorn>
nvm I figured it out
<Saabstory88>
Oh, what was it?
<Agathorn>
one of the ambiguous properies isn't namespaced :(
<Saabstory88>
Ahhh
<Agathorn>
its in a third party lib
<Saabstory88>
Intellisense to the rescue?
<Agathorn>
got to figure out the best way to fix this though
<Agathorn>
fixing the ambiguitiy would involve changes to a lot of files, but this piece that isn't namespace might be that way for a reason
<Agathorn>
I do'nt know much about how custom decorators work in C# so maybe they can't be namespaced?
<Saabstory88>
Can you be more specific about the offending library?
<Agathorn>
in what way
<Agathorn>
its a dependency injection library and it has a file that defines a bunch of property attributes..that file and the attributes are not in a Namespace
<Agathorn>
the rest of the library is very well namespaced
<Agathorn>
which is why I wonder if it has to be that way
<Saabstory88>
Got it. Just curious if it would be possible to devine the reason for this scoping from the source
<Pap>
Saabstory88: what are you writing your mod in?
<Saabstory88>
C#
<Saabstory88>
Normal KSP mod
<Pap>
Ah, I asked because you said Javascript
<Saabstory88>
Most of my work involves nodejs systems
<Agathorn>
I used to like nodeJS
<Saabstory88>
used to?
<Agathorn>
yeah I like the concept of it..but I tried using it a couple times for some websites based on Node and Express and it leaked memory like a sieve
<Agathorn>
my ISP kept killing my server processes because of the memory usage :(
<Agathorn>
every couple of weeks it had to be killed and restarted
<Agathorn>
after googling some I found that memory leaks with Node are pretty common
<Saabstory88>
Ahh. I’ve never had memory problems. I use it for highly asynchonous A/V protocol converters
<Saabstory88>
Written a couple of A/V control systems, some user facing. Lots of lighting controllers
<Agathorn>
well it looks like I can Namespace this stuff.. but then of course I have to add using ststements to the rest of the library which looks like more work than fixing the ambiguity in the rest of my code.. but then this is the more proper way to fix it so..
<Agathorn>
arg
<Saabstory88>
Yeah, better to no use existing props, right?
<Agathorn>
properly namespacing these attributes is the right way to fix it..just means I need tomodify about 80 files :(
<Saabstory88>
what mod is this for/
<Agathorn>
its a Dependcy Injection library
<Agathorn>
I wanted to give it a try
Hohman has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 54.0/20170608105825]]
<Saabstory88>
See, this is why scripting lanugages are useful. Write a script to add the using statement to all of those files :)
<Agathorn>
lol would take me longer to do that than to just do it
<Agathorn>
there all done
<Pap>
Agathorn: what language do you work in for you job?
<Bornholio>
how do i change the b9 proc wings
<Agathorn>
Pap: Mostly Python
<Agathorn>
Bornholio: I think its "J"? IIRC
<Agathorn>
I can't seem to remember..its more muscle memory than real memory
<Pap>
What language did you work on in school
<Agathorn>
all sorts
<Bornholio>
thanks
<Agathorn>
Bornholio: was that correct?
<Agathorn>
Pap: in school mostly Java (yick) and C++
<Agathorn>
but I was self taught long before college
<Pap>
Ah, gotcha
<Pap>
I am learning C++ right now which is why I was aksing
<Agathorn>
roughly GW Basic->Turbo Pascal->C++
<Agathorn>
with a smahing of other stuff
<Agathorn>
smashing*
<Bornholio>
yes agathorn
<Agathorn>
cool!
<Agathorn>
glad the old noggin still occosinoally works
<Agathorn>
the older you get the less you take that as a given :(
<Pap>
why the hell would you ever use Overloaded functions? It just seems messy to me
<Agathorn>
they can be messy ig abused..but used correctly they are amazingly useful
<Agathorn>
in fact..in Testflight..one sec
<Pap>
what is the advantage over just using a differently named function?
<Agathorn>
the advantage is a cleanr API when the caller needed or shouldn't care
<Agathorn>
another example... in ST I have a class that contains a string identifier.. to compare if two instances of that class are "equal" you actually have to check if the identifiers are equal
<Agathorn>
Now I coud just do a string comparison EVERYWHERE I need to check if they are equal or not, or more cleanly, I overload the operator ==
<Agathorn>
so then I can just do if (instance1 == instance2){}
<Agathorn>
much cleaner, and easier to follow
<Agathorn>
hey NathanKell
<NathanKell>
Hyea
<NathanKell>
s/ye/ey/
<Qboid>
NathanKell meant to say: Heya
<Agathorn>
and while NK tends ti disagree with me (lol) I always prefer clean code first and foremost
<NathanKell>
Oh, don't get me wrong.
<NathanKell>
Clean code is great.
<Agathorn>
:D
<NathanKell>
Clean, fast code is best.
<Agathorn>
just winding you up a little man
<NathanKell>
Clean, horrifically garbage-spammy and slow code, not so much :P
<NathanKell>
Me too :P
<Agathorn>
at work I always encourage people to try and write Python code in such a way that an intern could follow it
<NathanKell>
There are optimizations that I wouldn't do because, say, I don't have to develop for consoles.
<NathanKell>
But there's a difference between going back and optimizing, and writing fairly-optimized code the first go-around
<NathanKell>
because it is no less a (good) habit to be in than writing clean code
<Pap>
Agathorn: So if I am looking at your TestFlight link, you have 4 function calls that look exactly the same, but you are using a different second parameter
<Agathorn>
the latter though is also in danger of premature optimizing.. really experience is a factor there
<NathanKell>
Yeah. That's useful because they all do the same thing, so they get the same name
<Agathorn>
the caller doesn't need to care which one is called
<Agathorn>
they just want to set a value and why should they care which it is
<Agathorn>
which type*
<NathanKell>
urff, gotta brb for a sec then stream
<Pap>
And then you convert it to a string so the actual function will operate the same way
<Agathorn>
you COULD go SetString, SetFlot, SetBool, etc
<Agathorn>
but thats an ugly API
<Agathorn>
yeah they all get stored as a string in the peristence sfs
<Agathorn>
IIRC
<Agathorn>
because it all ends up as a packed data string
<Agathorn>
if you look at one of your fs files you should be able to find it if you wanted to look :)
<Pap>
Damn, I am not even clsoe to you guys in terms of knwoing any of this stuff
<Agathorn>
I've been programming for... close to 30 years at a guess
<Pap>
No I agree with you, just shows me how far away I actually am
<Agathorn>
nd things constantly change too
<Agathorn>
all those paradigms and patterns, not to mention new languages nd stuff
<Agathorn>
its a never engine hourney :)
<Agathorn>
wow freud
<Agathorn>
s/engine hourney/ending journey
<Qboid>
Agathorn meant to say: its a never ending journey :)
<Agathorn>
most of my c# experience came from KSP actually
<Agathorn>
I had dabbled in it before..but TF was the first really advanced thing I had written
<Agathorn>
and it shows tbh
<Agathorn>
there is a ton of crap in there
<Agathorn>
like really really bad code
<Agathorn>
and still things like handling caft switching that i've never gotten working and probably needs a total refactor to fix
Senshi has joined #RO
<Agathorn>
at least it doesn't generate nearly as much garbage as it once did :) Almost none now actually
<Agathorn>
so I got bag 1 out of 12 of my Saturn V built :)
<Agathorn>
actually rather cool seeing it go together
<Pap>
I cannot wait to purchase mine, very excited
<Agathorn>
the instruction book is pretty cool too
<Agathorn>
and includes some history on the rocket
<Pap>
Why should I use double instead of float when I am working in C++ with money? It would seem to me that float would use less memory, but all the examples are in double and that is the default, why?
<Agathorn>
egg in 3...2...1
<Agathorn>
there are many schools of thought there i'm afraid :D
<Agathorn>
in the abstract, doubles use more memory but have better precision
<Agathorn>
I imagine if you were writing say softwre for a trading floor handling thousands of thousands of high value transactions, you would probably err on the side of precision
<Agathorn>
for your puggy bank, probably not :)
<Agathorn>
s/puggy/piggy
<Qboid>
Agathorn meant to say: for your piggy bank, probably not :)
<Agathorn>
also the "default" really varies by many factors such as language, compiler, platform...
<Agathorn>
though I think things are starting to be more standard these days
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQIMP
<github>
RealismOverhaul/pap1723-ROupdates e7e452f NathanKell: RCS updates: Default to nitrogen to play better with RP-0, rename 1kN thruster to fit with other RCS thrusters.
<Agathorn>
used to be you would see variable types declared very specificly to include the backing so as to avoid confusion
<Pap>
OK, so it is not a bad idea to think in terms of always using double unless I can really think of a reason to not?
<Agathorn>
like I said depends on who you talk to
<Agathorn>
I think its a bad thing personally
<Agathorn>
if you don't need doubles don't use them
<Agathorn>
I personally treat them as opt-in not opt-out
<Agathorn>
but I emphasize *personally*
<Agathorn>
don't be surpsied if tomorrow morning french time egg has some late remarks :)
<Pap>
ok, well thank you for your thoughts on it and being objective about your reasoning
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|Twitch
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Pap: IIRC egg showed that at least for C#, doubles are faster than floats
<NathanKell|Twitch>
I tend to always use double because float (im)precision has bitten me so many times in RSS/RO/etc
<Pap>
huh, that is interesting, I was told that in some languages that is the case
<Pap>
NathanKell*: Chickenswag just waits for you...stalking
<leudaimon>
man, I'm exploding with plenty ablator in a mercury reentry from 500km x -50km... what could be wrong?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Pap: Pretty much :D
<NathanKell|Twitch>
leudaimon: Have you updated RO to the latest master?
<leudaimon>
after you tweaks to heat, yeah I believe so NathanKell|Twitch
<NathanKell|Twitch>
weird
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Upload the save?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
or at least craft?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
It may be another issue where you're not getting drag
<NathanKell|Twitch>
cuz I tried your last one and it went fine
<NathanKell|Twitch>
try nuking FAR and re-adding?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
make sure you don't have tweakscale?
<taniwha>
twitchscale :P
<leudaimon>
no tweakscale, I just nuked far and re-added
<leudaimon>
I'll reinstall RO
<leudaimon>
strange is that moving the peri to 100 or 150 didn't change the amount of ablator left before I explode... I'll upload the save
Senshi has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<NathanKell|Twitch>
meanwhile feel free (IMO) to turn on ignore max temps
<NathanKell|Twitch>
obviously that should survive fine
<leudaimon>
:) yeah, I think I'll do that for now... if you can test whether you manage to reenter fine the way it is now, please let me know that I'll investigate what is wrong with my install
<leudaimon>
NathanKell|Twitch, none esoteric as far as i recall... especially for this craft
<leudaimon>
soundnfury, enjoy your leadership
Moistmelon has quit [Ping timeout: 383 seconds]
<leudaimon>
got to go... man, a venus flyby is a science factory!
leudaimon has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<NathanKell|Twitch>
!tell Pap* IMO early 1m, 2m, and 3m guidance should be shifted left one node each (1m to prototypes and 2m/3m to early). 2m and 3m should unlock in 56 since you need them for Thor/Atlas/R-7
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
aradapilot has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
aradapilot has joined #RO
<egg|zzz|egg>
Pap: as said NathanKell|Twitch, you'll have to put in a lot of effort to find a performance improvement from using binary32 floating-point, and the mantissa there is really small, that can very easily bite you when you don't eggspect it; Even if at the top-level binary32 had good enough precision (which is not the case in space), unless you really know what you are doing numerically (which you likely do not), it is a very
<egg|zzz|egg>
good idea to carry double the precision in intermediate calculations.
<NathanKell>
With the amount of s/ex/egg/ going on I'd say you should make, like teabot, eggbot, but you kinda already are eggbot <3
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: there is an eggbot in #bottorture
<egg|zzz|egg>
just need to ask Norgg to bring it here :D
<NathanKell>
:D
<NathanKell>
Is it less, _or more_, comprehensible than thee?
<acharles>
I hang out on #RO :P
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: sadly eggbot does not jump in every time floating point arithmetic gets talked about :-p
<NathanKell>
acharles: Yep! :)
<NathanKell>
Do please post the issue :)
<acharles>
I will, I need to think some more.
<taniwha>
I'd say unity's problems with precession are caused by floats
<taniwha>
floats just don't cut it for angles, especially when using quaternions
<acharles>
One of the issues with the current design is that I never independently understood that milestones paid out lots of money with specific intents.
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: also, fun tidbit of mathemathical terminology: there is an inner product, an interior product, an exterior product, an outer product. They are of course very different things
<taniwha>
(just look at the sun/shadow issues in 1.3)
<acharles>
Which means I sort of end up spending all the cash on the wrong thing.
<acharles>
And even know that I know that they are for specific things or sorts of things, I’m still not sure why that was choosen as the right/appropriate way to give players funds for those specific things.
<NathanKell>
Yeah. We need to be explicit about that, you're quite right. "You might want to spend the advance on upgrading your infrastructure and building and testing LVs"
<egg|zzz|egg>
taniwha: possibly; there's also the shitty Euler integration that's at the core of game engines, that can't help
<acharles>
s/even know/even now/
<Qboid>
acharles meant to say: And even now that I know that they are for specific things or sorts of things, I’m still not sure why that was choosen as the right/appropriate way to give players funds for those specific things.
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: also duncan above mentioned recommending principia in some way, not sure what your opinion of that one is
<acharles>
NathanKell: Saying so in the contract would be better but I don’t see why you’d want to couple different concepts?
<egg|zzz|egg>
we're still not in a ckannable state, other than that things are starting to be playable
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: btw, a colleague is using RSS/RO/RP-0/Principia and appears to be having fun :-p
<acharles>
I suppose early space flight is primarily filled with examples of purpose built rockets for specific missions, but as the years passed, that completely changed due to it being too expensive.
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQI5n
<NathanKell>
egg|zzz|egg: I'm fine with recommending it in the OP at this point, and when you're in a CKANable state it may well be time to make it a ckan rec :)
<NathanKell>
egg|zzz|egg: Awesome! :)
<NathanKell>
acharles: I can think of only Vanguard as a case of a purpose-built LV, actually.
<taniwha>
(I've hated Euler integration since I was 16 or 17)
<NathanKell>
acharles: the A, B, and C series of Saturn were generic heavy lift options
<NathanKell>
Most everything else was missile-derived
<acharles>
NathanKell: So, why would one want to tie a milestone contract to LV development?
<NathanKell>
Because we don't do missiles :)
<egg|zzz|egg>
taniwha: well, that's what a game engine with forces set at each step *is* :-p
<acharles>
I don’t understand that reasoning?
<acharles>
What do missiles have to do with it?
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: ckannable state needs lamont to integrate with the official build
<taniwha>
egg|zzz|egg: doesn't have to be
<egg|zzz|egg>
well you'd have to give several force computations per frame
<NathanKell>
acharles: Because it's a false question of whether LVs were mission-designed, because they weren't designed as LVs either.
<NathanKell>
They were designed as missiles.
TonyC2 has joined #RO
<egg|zzz|egg>
or make the frames stages
<egg|zzz|egg>
taniwha: or you could do leapfrog
<taniwha>
going just one step further and using 3rd-order taylor series makes a big difference (though it's not cheap)
<egg|zzz|egg>
you could do leapfrog which is eggsactly as cheap
<NathanKell>
So they were neither designed for the mission, *nor* designed to lift a general payload (other than the Saturn series), pretty much *everything* else (other than N1, which like Saturn was half a heavy lift LV and half *obviously* designed for the lunar mission), were ICBM or IRBM derivatives
<egg|zzz|egg>
(though it means that pos and vel are never synchronous, but that's something you can work with)
<NathanKell>
Even Proton started life as UR-500, a superheavy ICBM
<acharles>
NathanKell: Ah, I didn’t read one of your sentences, so got confused. I get it now. So, wouldn’t it make more sense to have contracts based on designing missiles, which I assume are purely “get this payload to have this trajectory”, as opposed to milestones?
TonyC1 has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
<NathanKell>
yeah, but like I said, we don't do missiles. We don't prohibit people from making military contract packs, but we don't ourselves
<acharles>
Just because we don’t have warheads, doesn’t mean that the requirements are different?
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: [on ckannability] that requires lamont to make his Makefile changes conditional and merge his pull request, but also to have some sort of schedule by which we tag sufficiently far before the new moon for him to send us a build in time for the new moon...
<NathanKell>
yeah...
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: alternatively the mac version could injected in on the first quarter, lagging a week behind the main release
<acharles>
missile = rocket with warhead payload instead of arbitrary payload. I don’t see what the military has to do with the game play choice?
<NathanKell>
egg|zzz|egg: Also does CKAN even support platform-specific mods?
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: so that's the thing, if we have a build with all three binaries in it, it's cross platform
<NathanKell>
or rather, submods
<NathanKell>
oh, right
<NathanKell>
you can just ship one build
<NathanKell>
acharles: There is another aspect of the current milestone system. That is, they have deadlines. So you have to commit. If there are independent LV and milestone contracts, you don't have to commit anywhere near as hard
<NathanKell>
(because the advance, and penalty, are spread over different contracts, and you can do them in sequence and if one fails you're not bound to the other)
<NathanKell>
anyway, I gotta zzz. Please do post the issue and we'll (all) continue the discussion
<NathanKell>
night all!
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|AWAY
<egg|zzz|egg>
\o
<acharles>
Night
Bornholio has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
Iskierka has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
Iskierka has joined #RO
ferram4_ has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
Dazzyp has joined #RO
Daz has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
Dazzyp is now known as Daz
blowfish has quit [Quit: Leaving]
SigmaAway is now known as Sigma88
acharles has quit [Ping timeout: 201 seconds]
acharles has joined #RO
Shoe17 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
Saabstory88 has quit [Quit: Saabstory88]
Theysen has joined #RO
<soundnfury>
\o/
rsparkyc has joined #RO
rsparkyc has quit [Client Quit]
Hypergolic_Skunk has joined #RO
Saabstory88 has joined #RO
Technicalfool has joined #RO
Bornholio has joined #RO
Technicalfool_ has quit [Ping timeout: 383 seconds]
Saabstory88 has quit [Quit: Saabstory88]
SirKeplan|AFK is now known as SirKeplan
Theysen_ has joined #RO
Theysen has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
B787_300 is now known as B787_Work
Hohman has joined #RO
Senshi has joined #RO
<Pap>
stratochief: So I was watching some videos...ITER is obviosuly experimental, but is it likely that it will be able to produce the expected 10x power?
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [22.06.2017 06:28:34]: "IMO early 1m, 2m, and 3m guidance should be shifted left one node each (1m to prototypes and 2m/3m to early). 2m and 3m should unlock in 56 since you need them for Thor/Atlas/R-7"
TM1978m has joined #RO
<Bornholio>
Pap My concern is that Iter is a scam that producess more nuclear waste tha a conventional light water reactor. But atleast it is pushing on the perpetual Fusion power is 20 years away.
<Pap>
Bornholio: Hmm, the potential issues with the reactor were not addressed in that video
<Pap>
Thank you for the awesome feedback you have been providing on your play-throughs
<Bornholio>
welcome.
<Pap>
To flesh out the sounding rocket contracts in the period between Karman Line and Orbit, we are going to create a Resource (Scientific) that needs to be brought to a specific altitude
<Theysen_>
meh..
<Bornholio>
Cool
<Pap>
Basically it is going to be development of LV's as we need to get 10 kg to 300km, then 20 kg, then other amounts to higher or lower heights
<Pap>
Something along those lines, hasn't been fully fleshed out yet
<Bornholio>
The only reason they are needed is that otherwise during the wait for the techs you have little to do other that spam Sounding Rocket medium or try to make orbit with A-9 and XASR-1 motors
<Bornholio>
I put nearly every KCT point into R&D speed too
<Agathorn>
heh your basically using GenericResource42 to replace RealScience :)
<Agathorn>
conceptually I mean
<Theysen_>
Is anyone able to tell me what strategy NK has driven in the RitS playthrough? In terms of point distribution and having all these things up in 1953. I can't watch every episode and I just wondered HOW you can actually achieve this progress in such short time
<Theysen_>
Is it on hard too?
<Pap>
Theysen_: He is a freak, he was able to reach orbit with one tech researched (I am pretty sure)
<Theysen_>
so basically TF luck? :D
<Pap>
He is able to squeeze every ounce of delta-v out of every rocket and re-engineer to make sure he gets there
<Theysen_>
yes but is he taking risks with every advance payout putting every bit into upgrade points?
<Pap>
Theysen_: he has had some good luck with TF, but he is just a master at the early part of the game as he stated, he has played it so much
<Theysen_>
I am not doubting the skill behind, mroe the strategy
<Pap>
Yeah, he got his build rate at a good rate, then all of his advances he put into getting the Pad, Mission Control and Tracking updated
<Theysen_>
if i could watch every single minute I'd know for sure, but just going over the formulas in KCT he needs like a gazillion points already in R&D? And somehow also in build rate? THat's the part I am struggling to understand :D
<Pap>
Then starting throwing upgrade points (with any extra money) into R&D
<Pap>
I don't think he actually has very many nodes unlocked, he has a lot in the pipeline unlocking, but I don't think that many unlocked
<Theysen_>
and absolutely zero time spent waiting for some tech to unlock right?
<Theysen_>
Gotta check in his next stream thanks though! :)
<Pap>
Theysen_: as far as I can tell, he has not spent any time fast forwarding (haven't watched every minute of his streams though)
<Bornholio>
one trick he talked about was spending all the science to unlock tech nodes then use the points from that to up R&D speed. I had been only unlocking two at time
<Theysen_>
what else do you science for than unlocking nodes?!
<Bornholio>
nothing, but an unlocked node doesn't help anything else until its finished KCT time
<Theysen_>
yeha but where is the trick part in that? I don't seem to get it?
<Theysen_>
I unlock nodes, I get upgrade points and just dump them into R&D as usual
<Bornholio>
its not, just not intuitive. I had not been doing that.
<Theysen_>
Sorry I don't really get it Bornholio. What did you do with the unlock points before?
<Theysen_>
did you wait until a node was unlocked "physically" and then proceeded with unlocking nodes?
<Bornholio>
I didn't have those points. I didn't unlock the techs until i had research time ready
<Theysen_>
So you didn't queue them all up, I think I understand now
<Bornholio>
heck i didn't realise you could mive things in que. he pointed out a cheaty thing in that. and the RiS guys have put it off limits. You can move a higher tech node to finish its time before prerequisites
<Bornholio>
move not Mive
<Pap>
Yeah, I was also playing where I would queue up the ones I have the pre-requisites for and then not queue past that. It didn't help that that annoying bug exists where you cannot click on research sometimes. Then when you exit the R&D building, you have to clikc Research on all the ones you currently have queued again
<Theysen_>
Ooooh what, just unlocking everything I CAN unlock and queue that up is considered cheating?
<Bornholio>
noticed that alot more playing branch pap
<Theysen_>
yeah that bug is old
<Theysen_>
But NK does that too in the playthrough
<Pap>
no Theysen_that is not cheating
<Theysen_>
yeah thought so too :D
<Pap>
It is cheating to have say Early Orbital Rocketry being researched, then queue Basic Orbital Rocketry to research, then when you go into KCT, you can move Basic Orbital Rocketry ahead in the queue to unlock first
<Theysen_>
Aye, that I never did
<Theysen_>
Never thought about it too actually
<Theysen_>
because the chronology would be off
* Theysen_
sees potential new exploits /s
<Pap>
lol
<Pap>
Yeah, my mind doesn't work like that, but I've also never been racing anyone before so I just played at my own pace for fun
leudaimon|work has joined #RO
<Pap>
o/
<Theysen_>
I was just so shocked to see how far he already is, I really hurried in my personal one, but I usually just warp through the first two nodes to make orbit quickly and don't bother with grinding sounding rockets
<leudaimon|work>
o/
<Theysen_>
oi
<Theysen_>
and that put me deep into the late 1952
<Pap>
Yeah, that is how I always played as well
<Theysen_>
So I don't really get how he can have all the stuff available already to land on the Moon when you can really get pumping the science income once you can make orbit and shoot the Moon
<leudaimon|work>
talking about RtS?
<Theysen_>
plus get all the crafts build
<Theysen_>
yes
<Pap>
also ask leudaimon|Work he has done a lot of stuff an dis at about the same point as NK
<Theysen_>
yes exactly
<Pap>
He has rush built a lot to get to certain milestones faster
<Theysen_>
KCT functions I never bothered with .. *facepalm*
<leudaimon|work>
My playstyle was always trying to race against myself...
<leudaimon|work>
rushbuilding is something I never bothered about, but found out it's very powerful, especially in the beggining when crafts are cheap and you can't afford upgrades
<Theysen_>
I imagine so, yeah!
<Theysen_>
should look into that
<Bornholio>
^ another thing i didn't know you could do, rushbuilding
Shoe17 has joined #RO
<leudaimon|work>
but the key, in my opinion, is to use as much of the advance money from contracts to get upgrades... and take good contracts as soon as they appear
<Bornholio>
And hope TF doesn't burn me
<Pap>
leudaimon|Work: how is the testing with the Proc Avionics going?
<Theysen_>
yes but the "good contracts" are quite predictable right?
<leudaimon|work>
Pap, couldn't manage to do that, I played a little yesterday, but tried to go a little ahead in RtS to don't hinder the others
<leudaimon|work>
what do you mean Theysen_ ?
<Pap>
gotcha
<Theysen_>
leudaimon|Work, in the beginning, the "good contracts" are which besides the milestones?
<Theysen_>
The new orbit contracts pay out some nice 9k yes
<leudaimon|work>
first sat, that I take as soon as I brake the karmán line
<leudaimon|work>
and the moon contracts, that I take as soon as I complete first sat
<Theysen_>
"Good ones" sounded like some side contracts popping up besides the usual career progression, sorry
<leudaimon|work>
good ones I mean ones that pay good advances
<Pap>
Theysen_: One thing that NK did that I didn't think to do, is to stack multiples of the very OP Early Controllable Probe in order to get more avionics. Then drain the batteries and use the tanks in the probes for more Delta-v
<leudaimon|work>
draining those batteries is very OP, always did that before moving to procedurals
<Pap>
Yeah, that tank size is very broken I think
<Theysen_>
you mean to empty the "ElectricCharge" and fill it up with hydra?
<Pap>
yep
<leudaimon|work>
yep Theysen_
<Theysen_>
Ah, yes of course :^)
<Theysen_>
otherwise the mass to gain ratio is shit :D
<leudaimon|work>
after designing procedurals, I really think that core should be nerfed
<Theysen_>
because when you stack those you don't win that much delta v in total :D
<Pap>
So it is an 18L tank in a TINY, TINY form
<leudaimon|work>
yeah, and there is no reason to have that bunch of EC in that core
<Pap>
Correct, only need a couple thousand to get to the Moon with no Solar Panels
<leudaimon|work>
exactly
<Pap>
^^^ don't check that math
<leudaimon|work>
lol
<Theysen_>
shutdown the core on the early and you can make it to Venus :D
<Pap>
But, you definitely do not need 15,842 EC to get anywhere
<Theysen_>
because it then drains like 0.01 or so
<leudaimon|work>
if I did mine correctly, you only need 350 EC to get to the moon at a leisurely pace
Senshi has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<Pap>
^^^ sounds reasonable leudaimon|Work
<Pap>
Theysen_: are you a coder?
<Theysen_>
Pap, not yet /s :D
<Theysen_>
trying to grab another academic run combined with working at a firm in the IT fields
<Pap>
Do you live in Germany?
<Theysen_>
Pap, I am able to program in C. But that's not really helpful
<Theysen_>
yeah
<Pap>
Do you really only have 38 hour workweeks?
<Theysen_>
I think that depends on the branch
<Pap>
Ah, ok
<Theysen_>
in the metal industries this is all strictly regulated, with office and economic fields there are no limits iirc
<Theysen_>
when you're up in the food chain that is
<Theysen_>
my good friend is with the riot police for example, they can be summoned at any time, no matter what but once your over your contracted hours the bonus pay will be very high. But again depending on the branch I assume
<Pap>
Ah, that makes sense
<Theysen_>
iirc metal industry weekly schedule is 35 hours
<Theysen_>
shift systems for the normal workers
<Theysen_>
day shift for anyone else, my dad usually makes +2 in total every day
<Bornholio>
did you get modded on MJ thread, i went back to survey the carnage and...
<regex>
I probably did
<regex>
vOv
<regex>
Just pisses me off when people who literally do not know how to code say shit like that and then balk at having to learn C#
<regex>
I code for a living, last thing I want to do is code at home in order to play a game.
<Bornholio>
hey you are the OP for RealISRU, who currently cares about the thing?
<regex>
Nope, I passed that off to the RO group
<regex>
But I think I still own the thread. Makes things awkward, unfortunately
<Bornholio>
okay i'll just makes some PR's and see who rolls them
BasharMilesTeg has joined #RO
Hohman has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 54.0/20170608105825]]
<regex>
I think stratochief is still on it ocassionally
<Bornholio>
looked like he was the last commit anyways
<Bornholio>
you not getting paid have something to do with steam sale?
<regex>
yes, I can't buy anything.
<regex>
Let me sing you the song of my people called "This is my mortgage paycheck and I have to bank money on the other paycheck in order to make it through this one"
<Bornholio>
yup stupid mortgate
<regex>
first world problems
ferram4_ has joined #RO
ferram4_ is now known as ferram4
<Bornholio>
really need that winning lottery ticket, I want zeroth world problems
<regex>
lol
<Theysen_>
already overloaded
<Theysen_>
everyone buying PUBG I guess haha
<regex>
isn't PUBG just basically Day Z in a short-form format?
<CobaltWolf>
already overloaded, I make KSP mods and that's it :P
<Theysen_>
regex, no plan, never played DayZ. PUBG is just battle royale with a very good and nice gameplay focusing on the gun fights
<Theysen_>
not the crafting and stuff
<Theysen_>
the level of hype is unreal once you win the first time :D
<regex>
Day Z didn't really have crafting, at least the original
<CobaltWolf>
Theysen_: yeah it's mostly PvP with zombies just there for flavor
<CobaltWolf>
I like things like The Walking Dead where the idea is zombies are just another natural disaster, and the real killer is your fellow man...
<regex>
I had a lot of fun on a private server just evading the zombies. Call me weird.
<Theysen_>
CobaltWolf, don't 404 us
<CobaltWolf>
Theysen_: oh I think I forgot to set it public?
<CobaltWolf>
apparently I accidentally let ZooNamedGames into my discord, but he's been actually fine to have around. The once or twice he messaged it was fine
<Theysen_>
his forum presence... is disturbing in fair words
<CobaltWolf>
yeah lol
<CobaltWolf>
a link somehow got shared on another Discord (still haven't figured out who did *that*... but it was probably me one night) and him and TristonWilson and some others got in
<Theysen_>
does he really launch this rocket?
<CobaltWolf>
no?
Thomas|AWAY is now known as Thomas
<CobaltWolf>
lol he was really active in our Discord when it first started, we got to see a lot of his BS firsthand, then he left one day and a couple days later Cloud Aerospace posted
<CobaltWolf>
far as I can tell for the 'test fire stand' video it's like some 1in diameter metal piping with chemicals inside that he lit on fire. A definitive test for sure
<Pap>
WTF, where are the Goo Experiments and Science Module experiment information stored in RO?
TM1978m has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: quite the photoset! how many pieces is the final skylab? 4?
<stratochief>
Bornholio: what were you looking to do on RealISRU/
<Pap>
leudaimon|Work: thanks, all of the actual experiment data I needed was in RP-0, which makes sense, there is no science needed outside of RP-0
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief: pieces? Like parts?
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: yarb
<CobaltWolf>
Well, from the bottom up.... Radiator, OWS, 2 RCS clusters, 2 solar panels, IU, airlock, 2 discone antennas, MDA, 3 docking ports on that, the ATM, 4 ATM panels, 4 RCS for the ATM since I went with a more lego-friendly setup as opposed to the truss
<CobaltWolf>
and then I'm planning on doing the double span solar panels, different adapter, smaller airlock module, and European research module from Eyes Turned Skywards
<stratochief>
gotcha, so lots of parts. which part animates to pitch the ATM to the side?
<stratochief>
nice to have the ATM seperate, so the skylab can be used as just a hab, and the ATM can be done as a stand-alone experiment with an Apollo CSM
<CobaltWolf>
sorry if I was unclear, the ATM has independent RCS and undocks / redocks autonomously
<CobaltWolf>
and yeah, exactly. That was the best way I found to allow non-standard configurations
NathanKell|WORK has joined #RO
egg|zzz|egg is now known as egg
<CobaltWolf>
Next thing before pushing a release, I'd like to get the Agena stuff done. Here's a pic of some of the parts for it, left to right: Agena B, Agena D / ATV, Porky's revamped stock tanks
blowfish has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
<stratochief>
I had to take a refresher look at bnumz to remind myself of the differences
<stratochief>
the engine fairings also have distinctive differences, and I know lots of engines include auto-engine fairings, but I prefer to make them with a procedural interstage, so they never look identical to real
<stratochief>
anyway, I need to combine, condence, and citate these two documents (10k words, 3k words) together. wish me luck!
<stratochief>
*condense
* Theysen_
wishes luck
Theysen_ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Theysen has joined #RO
<CobaltWolf>
good luck!
<Bornholio>
stratochief: i put in some issue, thought i'd do the PRs for them. In between removing branches in 100F weather
<NathanKell|WORK>
CobaltWolf: Agena and the Aardvark lookin' good!
<NathanKell|WORK>
Good luck stratochief !
<egg>
!wpn NathanKell|WORK
* Qboid
gives NathanKell|WORK an explosive ?/? hybrid
<egg>
!wpn stratochief
* Qboid
gives stratochief a quill-like protractor
<CobaltWolf>
NathanKell|WORK: thanks! Aardvark actually needs a lot of work, it is still the 'old' style of textures unlike the more detailed / porkalike ones that Apollo has now
Senshi has joined #RO
Thomas is now known as Thomas|AWAY
<regex>
Oh hey, should we be enabling part pressure limits in the save file?
<regex>
I'd really like a list of "recommended" settings for a new RO save.\
<regex>
If we have one, of course.
<egg>
!wpn regex
* Qboid
gives regex an inflammable series
<Pap>
regex: NathankKell has actually created custom difficulty settings for us. They are / will be automatically selected for us (don't know how it works)
<regex>
For new saves?
<regex>
or just for KCT?
<Pap>
For new saves, he said he built the code in for Custom Difficulty settings
<Theysen>
Pap, might link the PR?
<Theysen>
or commi
<Theysen>
t
<Pap>
He has written the plugin already, let me find it
<regex>
So we are intended to play with pressure and Gee limits, cool. Wasn't sure if that was handled by something else.
<Theysen>
people creating videos about manual 1.2.2 install of RO with the spreadsheet BEFORE we released the official version now cause more pain than gain. Can I C&D them to delete the videos? /s
<regex>
Who do you think yop are, Take Two?
<Theysen>
REALISM OVERHAUL GROUP TAKES FIRST ACTIONS AGAINST HELPFUL COMMUNITSY
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: I thought 1.2.2 was 5.4.1 or .2 ?
<NathanKell|WORK>
IIRC 1.3 is 5.5
<regex>
Yeah, I think you're right
<NathanKell|WORK>
you can check the ksp.log
<Agathorn>
mainly i'm curious if its new enough to have the new json serializtion
<NathanKell|WORK>
2017 has all the goodies, like sane GC
<NathanKell|WORK>
5.6 at least has fixed foreach
<Agathorn>
it did?
<Agathorn>
seriously?
<regex>
yay!
<regex>
sane GC!
<Agathorn>
I've been labouring to write out my foreachs for no reason?
<Bornholio>
5.6.2 is current personal DL
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yeah, I'm on 5.6.2.
<NathanKell|WORK>
And yes, foreach no longer garbages
<Agathorn>
wait there is a .2? hmm
<NathanKell|WORK>
Err, sorry, 5.6.1.
<Agathorn>
ST is still on 5.6.0f3 or something like that
<Agathorn>
yeah I saw the .1
<Agathorn>
didn't see a .2 though
<NathanKell|WORK>
yeah, just me being confused :D
<Agathorn>
I'm debating moving to 2017
<Pap>
NathanKell* did you get a chance to read the information from charles? Did you understand what he was asking?
<Agathorn>
but hesitant
<NathanKell|WORK>
Agathorn: I have no experience of it either
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: We talked some last night. I haven't read the issue yet.
<Bornholio>
I'm still learnin' myself how to model some engines, unity is next i guess what does 2017 have that release doesn't?
<Agathorn>
My only experience with 2017 was to install it to see if it fixed a bug I ws having and when it didn't I reported th ebug hen went back to 5.6 heh
<NathanKell|WORK>
I'm of mixed feelings on it, Pap. It seems yet more direction (with which I'm uncomfortable, but some people want / need), but I can see the argument for it
<NathanKell|WORK>
But there is the very real danger of lowering the commitment level of taking on a major milestone
<Agathorn>
I think pary of the problem is that doing contracts in KSP almost doesn't feel optional in a way
<NathanKell|WORK>
RP-0 definitely tries to make them much less optional :]
<Agathorn>
it isn'r rp-0's fault more like the design of the system in general
<NathanKell|WORK>
Well, have a firm distinction between musts and optionals
<blowfish>
err
<blowfish>
wasn't the foreach issue only with the Unity compiler?
<Agathorn>
was with mono I think
<stratochief>
Pap: charles argument where?
<blowfish>
mono compiler fixed it ages ago
<Agathorn>
yeah and it took UT ages+5 to ctch up :)
<blowfish>
indeed
<stratochief>
in other news, I've got the Coal/carbon capture section of this beast ~90% integrated
<blowfish>
but mod DLLs were never affected because no one compiles with Unity
<Agathorn>
I thought the iussue was in the mono runtime though
<blowfish>
I had heard differently
<Agathorn>
but I don't really know too much about the nuts and bolts
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Foreach *is* still slower, just garbage free
<Pap>
I don't understand exactly what he is looking for
<Agathorn>
I do know that remove foreachs in TF made a huge difference in garbage
<Agathorn>
and TF was definitely not compiled with Unity
<Pap>
NathanKell* I just want to let you know that I will probably be doing my part to pay your salary this month
<Agathorn>
:)
<blowfish>
foreach does generate garbage in some situations, but not because of foreach, because of the thing you're enumerating
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Pap: a progression of "design, build, and fly a launch vehicle to place X tonnes in orbit" where x increases in each contract
<blowfish>
the rule of thumb is to use foreach only directly on a List<T> or Array
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Pap: Ahahahaha!
<regex>
Oh god, basically more launches
<Agathorn>
my understanding of the bug was in how the enumerator was handled
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Also FYI the star thing is just for !tell
<Agathorn>
in fact as I understood it, if you created your own enumeration then it would be fine
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Agathorn correct
<blowfish>
if the enumeration was a struct
<blowfish>
enumerator, to be specific
<Pap>
NathanKell: that sounds like something that does not need to be in RP-0...That will basically be handled by the contracts that will be / are created with satellites, does it not?
<NathanKell|AWAY>
I thought so
<stratochief>
IMO, the current contract system already achieves what acharles is suggesting, but in a better way by asking you to do actual things with payloads, not just to lob ~generic mass sim~
<NathanKell|AWAY>
And the milestones pay enough so you do exactly that
<NathanKell|AWAY>
But sat contracts will help tons to guide the player better
<Agathorn>
I don't know if it is corect, but based on some comments I had written this chunk of code which was supposed to work around the garbage problem of foreach
<Agathorn>
var enumerator = this.Forces.GetEnumerator();
<stratochief>
if acharles wants ~generic mass sim~ contracts, he coul make them, and make them an optional contract pack that requires RP-0 to already be installed?
<Pap>
And now with adding the new "Sounding Rocket" contracts, it will achieve some of that as well
<blowfish>
Agathorn: depends on what GetEnumerator() returns
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Strato that was my argument but the opposing views is there isn't enough direction on how to spend the advance money
<blowfish>
but in general that will be equivalent to foreach
<Agathorn>
blowfish: all I know is the comments I were reading indicated that the foreach would leak whereas that wouldn't
<Agathorn>
*shrug*
<Agathorn>
I haven't profiled it yet
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Not just equivalent but literally what foreach compiles to
<Agathorn>
though NK is saying that was fixed in 5.6 anyway
<blowfish>
I heard that too, but only for the unity compiler
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Correct
<NathanKell|AWAY>
There was a difference in how everyone but mono did that
<Bornholio>
Could add some description text that says "Don't forget to upgrade your pad, orbital launches at low tech take heavy lower stages"
<blowfish>
everyone but older versions of mono
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Mono followed spec, which led to garbage
<Pap>
Correct me if I am wrong, but there shouldn't be direction on where and how to spend the advance money. That is for a tutorial to teach. The individual player should be able to spend a ton on research early, or spend on the VAB or Pad, etc
<blowfish>
maybe to avoid mixing conversations this would be better for #kspmodding
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Or on building and testing an LV if needed
<Pap>
Right, these are videos that can be made my NK or stratochief, or whoever else likes to / wants to / is good at / creating videos
<Pap>
Is Portal 2 for $1.99 worth getting?
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Yes
<Pap>
<------ asking the important questions
<Bornholio>
^steam shill
<NathanKell|AWAY>
And I'd have said that before November too
<stratochief>
hmm. well Bornholio's idea isn't too bad. just a gentle nudge to new players to upgrade the pad for certain heavier missions?
<leudaimon|work>
yeah, I didn't like charles' suggestion also... isn't this new thing of contracts including different payload resources already kind of solving the issue more ellegantly?
<stratochief>
Pap: or, perhaps along with the history angle of your previous contract pack, simply stating what the mass of the historical rocket(s) that accomplished that contract were?
<stratochief>
"nobody is saying that you need a 600T pad for this contract, but 'Merica -did- use a SaturnIB to do dis"
<leudaimon|work>
stratochief: considering the weights of Juno vs. sputnik R-7, that could vary a lot
<Pap>
stratochief: When I originally designed the RP-0 contracts, I had put some Historical Information about the first craft that accomplished that in RL, but then I took it out, I didn't know if it would break some people's immersion of wahtever world they created in their head
<stratochief>
leudaimon|Work: yeah, could state the US mass, and the USSR mass?
<stratochief>
Pap: you could ask acharles if that would help? I personally like the history blurb, but a vote could be taken?
<NathanKell|WORK>
stratochief: Yes, I think a bit of boilerplate "here's the historical mission that did this first" would be of value to the player because it's interesting, but *also* because you'd get an idea of what you might need to build
<Bornholio>
I like the historical information also, but it seems like a lot of work for Pap-Historian-Slave
<regex>
Well,
<NathanKell|WORK>
It's just literally adding text, Anyone (tm) can do it! :)
<regex>
if you guys can outline what missions go with what contract I would be willing to help with descriptions
<NathanKell|WORK>
Anyregex
<NathanKell|WORK>
<3
<regex>
No lie
<regex>
it's better than coding to prove a point, for sure
<Pap>
regex: I have most of that done already (coincides with my Historical Contract Pack)
<regex>
Okay, show me where and I'll start cranking them out.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yeah, something like "Historically, the first satellite to orbit the earth was Sputnik PS-1, which massed 80kg at separation and was launched on a 300t R-7 rocket. It was quickly followed by Explorer 1 (8kg) on a Juno (~25t) and Vanguard 1 (4kg) on Vanguard (10t)
<regex>
So that would be something for the first satellite contract?
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell deleted Pap-Contracts at beac059: https://git.io/vQtNN
<regex>
I'll start with the two milestones folders and we can move on if I'm having fun
<Pap>
regex: Check out the first sheet on there, it has all of the Historical "Firsts" should be able to easily tie that to the current contracts
<regex>
But I'll definitely commit to that
<Pap>
\o/ regex
<regex>
Thanks Pap
<Pap>
Anyone here able to run AIES on 1.2?
<Pap>
RO obviously, not stock
<stratochief>
what about future contracts? :P "The first human landing on Mars could be accomplished with a 10,000T LV in 2025, placing a 1,000T payload into LEO and 3 humans onto Mars for a 1 year stay" :P
<regex>
Haven't tried but I do miss that mod, great sat buses
<regex>
lol stratochief
<NathanKell|WORK>
stratochief: Jesus. So much for Mars Direct :D
<stratochief>
NovaDIRECT
<stratochief>
10% payload mass to LEO, more like OrionDIRECT
<stratochief>
but yeah, some more complicated missions could get complicated to suggest how to accomplish. MarsDirect could be 2-3 Saturn V's, but first feet on Mars could also be Constellation/Ares style with like 10-15 launches
<NathanKell|WORK>
Also that
<Pap>
All RemoteTech ranges are multiplied by 10 from what is shown in the CFG, correct?
<Theysen>
ITS will be only 2 launches and transport many many people at once to mars without any issues /s
<regex>
I like how Musk just basically builds the rock^H^H^H^H coffin and lets the passengers figure out how to survive
<stratochief>
Theysen: could happen, could happen.
<stratochief>
I believe Musk will at least be building a propellant plant, which means he will also need to design, build,and ship a decent chunk of early-mars infrastructure
<Theysen>
stratochief, yeeeahh.
<Bornholio>
Lots of good CASI's for mars missions, and by that point in the game you should have the KCT thing figured out
<regex>
So the passengers will just suck propellant? Seems legit
CobaltWolf has joined #RO
<stratochief>
but yeah, I expect the first 'vacationers' to be disappointed by spending their stay in tiny prefab boxes, staring at pictures of a desert
<CobaltWolf>
hullo
<regex>
And hoping their shit doesn't break
<stratochief>
regex: oxygen and water will be ISRU, food might be tinned for the first half dozen missions
<Theysen>
i want cryosleep before we go to mars
* stratochief
slides Theysen into the freezer
<Bornholio>
Just his head
<regex>
lol
* Theysen
didn't sign up to volunteer
<stratochief>
icicles don't need to consent
<regex>
Involuntary Frozen Head
<Bornholio>
Just heads will lower mars manned mission mas by many tons
<Theysen>
...
<Bornholio>
<---Hopes Theysen has seen Futurama
<Theysen>
heads might roll out the hatch once landed as the passengers turned mad due to small living space
<stratochief>
exploration missions are accomplished by vibrating the ground, letting the heads wander like electric football players
<Theysen>
the psychological aspect of a mars mission is the toughest for the pilots
<stratochief>
Theysen: I'm sure you'll have no trouble keeping your cool :)
<Theysen>
gaaaaat daaaaamn
<Theysen>
nice one
<regex>
DUDE
<regex>
A Futurama vibrating football game?
<stratochief>
watching my legs waste away for months of zero-G transfer would freak me the hell out. I'll wait for simulated G, not for cryosleep
<regex>
You could probably make a small fortune off that
<stratochief>
regex: shutup and take my money!
<Bornholio>
regex and rule 34
<regex>
*\o/*
<Bornholio>
Regex, straight to hasbro
<Theysen>
stratochief, we all know how the ISS looks like. I wouldn't want to spend 2.5 years in such an environment tbh, despite all the fame, groundbreaking, hero I'd be
<regex>
Fallout 4 for $15 and I'm still not going to buy it
<Theysen>
this steam sale is tough
<regex>
Borderlands 2 for $5 OTOH...
* Theysen
can't even access the store page due to overload
<stratochief>
Theysen: I wasn't able to dig up an article, but IIRC Germany/ESA is launching an experiment to grow plants in space in partial graivty within the year
<Theysen>
stratochief, I saw first hand slides and results of those experiments
<Theysen>
imagine you could build a farm plant before humans even launch to Mars built by roboters and the people arrive into self sustained food chains
<Pap>
stratochief: back in the day when you were playing with SSTU, did you configure avionics for the Upper Stage tanks?
<Theysen>
thats a good step for life support and recycling
<stratochief>
Pap: not sure. I don't think so, since the upper stage tank changes so much depending on user selections
<Theysen>
Pap, they're basically infinity
<Pap>
For some reason (I cannot figure out why) they can control infinity avionics
<stratochief>
Theysen: I'd expect the first few missions to BYO food, experiment with growing food in-situ to leverage for future missions
<Pap>
yep, like Theysen said
<Pap>
I have no idea why though, there is no reference to them in any Avionics file and there is no reference to avionics in the config file
<stratochief>
I never used SSTU with RP-0, *shrug*
leudaimon|work has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
<regex>
The engiens are nice
<regex>
But I notice all the AJ-10s we have are long nozzle so my Thor-Able has a messed up profile
<blowfish>
SSTU doesn't have any early AJ10s
<Pap>
regex: isn't the AJ10 (Early) the correct one?
<blowfish>
starts at Apollo basically
<Pap>
Ah, gotcha
<CobaltWolf>
I've got some bad AJ-10s from before I knew how to find good reference
<NathanKell|WORK>
Anything that *does* have ModuleCommand but does *not* have a ModuleAvionics to give a mass limit, has *no* mass limit
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: ^
<NathanKell|WORK>
We assume something has unlimited control unless we specifically limit it
<Pap>
Ah, thank you, I will fix that
<Pap>
That is what I was trying to find, a catchall that it fell under
<NathanKell|WORK>
Need to talk to rsparkyc to give it proc avionics I think
<NathanKell|WORK>
since regular avionics wouldn't do it
<NathanKell|WORK>
they'd have a static kW draw and mass limit
<Pap>
Yeah, they have something that is called a support tank, but I am trying to determine how MFT sees the total available volume
<Pap>
Actually figured it out! The support comes from the SSTU side
<Pap>
!tell rsparkyc When you have time, I would love a little bit of Procedural Avionics instruction
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<regex>
Oh cool, apparently I still have commit to RO/RP-0
<NathanKell|WORK>
coursa ya do
<regex>
Pap, can I push to your branch?
<NathanKell|WORK>
you should be able to regex, that's our current dev branch
TM1978m has joined #RO
<regex>
Figured.
<regex>
Thanks
<Bornholio>
its % to edit or create a line in MM configs?
<NathanKell|WORK>
yes
<Bornholio>
ty
<regex>
o/
regex has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
NathanKell|WORK has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
NathanKell|WORK has joined #RO
leudaimon has joined #RO
<leudaimon>
o/
<leudaimon>
Pap, you mentioned earlier that NathanKell|AWAY created a preset for RP-0 configs in the new tech tree branch... how do I activate it?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Just use the branch
<NathanKell|WORK>
it's in the RP-0 dll
<leudaimon>
i might have made some mistake then
<NathanKell|WORK>
well, try it out: start a new career, select Hard difficulty, and make sure Fund Loss is at 100%
<NathanKell|WORK>
If it's not, I need to recompile the dll since rsparkyc pushed an update to master which I merged in but I might have forgotten to recompile after.
<leudaimon>
\o/ it is at 100%!
<leudaimon>
I thought there would be an RP-0 option
<NathanKell|WORK>
:)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Nope, it involves editing the existing presets
<NathanKell|WORK>
so we can have easy/normal/mod/hard RP-0 presets (and do)
<NathanKell|WORK>
They need balancing tho
<NathanKell|WORK>
It was just my off the cuff guesses
<leudaimon>
cool
<leudaimon>
I'll start a career to test the proc. avionics I configged
<leudaimon>
going for the hard preset (with revert and quickload because I'm not crazy)
<NathanKell|WORK>
:D
<Bornholio>
Hard is Hard...
<NathanKell|WORK>
really? I guess I'm a bad barometer
<NathanKell|WORK>
I'm finding it pretty easy tbh
<Bornholio>
lol, its doable, just not much room for TF blowing up half your rockets
<NathanKell|WORK>
True
<leudaimon>
well, in the previous tech tree hard was pretty ok
<NathanKell|WORK>
So the issue is funds?
<leudaimon>
oh, the rocketry icons are gorgeous
<Bornholio>
Like i told pap i think funds are just passable, slow but ok, but it is missing some contracts before orbit, unless you do super lotweck like you
<Bornholio>
lowtech
<Bornholio>
paps icons are the best
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yep, and we have the answer for that!
<NathanKell|WORK>
Apply the same logic as the new satellite contracts, to sounding rocket contracts
<Bornholio>
he was describing, sounds good
<NathanKell|WORK>
so you'll have to loft a given payload to a given altitude
<NathanKell|WORK>
like, a few dozen kg of InstrumentTypeX
<Agathorn>
NathanKell|WORK: you are absolutely a bad barometer
<Bornholio>
i saw the new resouce types show up
<Agathorn>
no offense intended
<NathanKell|WORK>
Agathorn: <3
<taniwha>
I'm probably a poor barometer for "stock"
<taniwha>
(though I always play default)
<Pap>
thanks leudaimon
<Pap>
thanks Bornholio
<Bornholio>
yw
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: is a good barometer for seeing how quickly things can be done, I am a good barometer for seeing how average people play
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, do you have ckan access still?
<leudaimon>
shouldn't alternate engine configs now be showing in the tech tree?
<NathanKell|WORK>
leudaimon: Yes
<NathanKell|WORK>
Raidernick: I am not sure. I think so?
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, the team there seems to have been awol for quite a while now
<Raidernick>
are you in touch with anyone who can merge there i have outstanding prs that are gamebreaking in 1.2.2 if not merged
<Raidernick>
because ckan is installing the 1.3 plugins in 1.2.2 right now
<Raidernick>
until those merges are made
B787_Work is now known as B787_300
<taniwha>
"I'm not much of a welder, but these modern stick welders /are/ easy. ... I find I do still have to connect the earth, though." (he wasn't getting an arc during the ...)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Raidernick: which merges?
<NathanKell|WORK>
ah I can sort by author
<NathanKell|WORK>
and do you mean netkan or ckan-meta?
<Raidernick>
netkan
<Raidernick>
all i did was change the version numbers
<Raidernick>
no major changes
<Pap>
leudaimon: any engines in particular missing? I may have missed some along the way