<leudaimon>
I might get some screenshots from my flights
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<leudaimon>
I have the auto screeshot thingy, will check if I have some representative ones
<Agathorn>
I suddenly greatly desire an ultrawide monitor. Would be nice to be able to have one Unity window open at a full 1920x1080 and still have room for the other stuff
<Agathorn>
I'll just have to do all my work in VR where my Monitor can be as bnig as I want it to be :p
<xShadowx>
4k curved monitor
<xShadowx>
........wait....VR desktop....geniuse!
<xShadowx>
i wonder how hard itd be to get a 'screen' to render but then display inside a VR env
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<soundnfury>
btw, question for RIS players. Do we have to observe launch site azimuth limits? Or are we allowed to, say, launch polar from the Cape?
<leudaimon>
that would be quite anoying
<soundnfury>
I agree it would be annoying to have to spin up a second VAB
<soundnfury>
but if anyone else were planning to, or even already had, then for me to not do so would be cheaty
<soundnfury>
so, is everyone cool with overflying populated areas? Pap?
<leudaimon>
I was planning to create a southern custom launch site for polar launches in my next playthrough, but I don't even know how KCT behaves with more than 1 site
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: heh, I have a custom launch site in Iceland. Great for launching into polar, terribad for anything else ;)
<leudaimon>
yeah, I was going to make one in Patagonia
<soundnfury>
nice
<Agathorn>
xShadowx: VR Desktop
<Agathorn>
if I was a better typist I would do it but i'm not :)
<Agathorn>
xShadowx: 4k monitors are nice, but the aspect is the same.. so for the job of having more stuff open, it doesn't work as well IMHO.. Everythign is just smaller which isn't good for my eyes.. but with the ultrawides its basically just like having a standard 2k monitor with half another one built in.. everythign is the same size, and you have more realestate
<Pap>
For RtS I am good with only using one launch site
<soundnfury>
Pap: great. I'll consider that a consensus :)
<Pap>
Agathorn I agree, the damn ultrawides are so expensive though!
<Pap>
That is why I have 3 1080 monitors
<leudaimon>
anybody knows how I would name these tracking stations in the RSS config?
<Agathorn>
xShadowx: 1) they would be mnore than 4k, and 2) Pretty sure they don't exist, and 3) what gpu could actually power it :D
<Agathorn>
Pap: yeah just not a fan of physically seperate monitors.. I did just pull my old Dell out of the closet though.. going to put it on the side horizontal aspect for some extra windows.. just would rather have one solid monitor :)
<soundnfury>
(you thought _yours_ was shonky. Mine lands nose-first!)
<acc>
a good alternative to that probecore might be that small sounding rocket avionics with two p-tanks half-spheres
<acc>
that's how I do/did it
<rsparkyc>
hey NathanKell, i tried OnStartFinished in ProceduralFairings, but that didn't resolve the issue. I'm looking into the coroutine idea, but have never messed with those before
<soundnfury>
acc: but that weighs waaaay more
<soundnfury>
like 60kg instead of 10.
<acc>
sure? hm
<acc>
maybe replacing that ring with p-avionics
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: Checking!
<NathanKell>
rsparkyc: OnStartFinished is an available override in 1.2? cool!
<Agathorn>
rsparkyc: wow thats an old thread
<rsparkyc>
haha, that's why i asked here, and not there :)
<Agathorn>
what do you want to know?
<NathanKell>
Agathorn probably knows them better than I actually :)
<rsparkyc>
i'm guessing every time you call it it just returns the next item in the IEnumarable?
<rsparkyc>
or is it something that runs on a background thread?
<xShadowx>
what do i want to do in ksp today......
<Agathorn>
it really depends on how you use them,, but essentially they are like a heartbeat function with conditions
<NathanKell>
or you can just yield return new waitforseconds(3) after the condition, to be _sure_ you run later
<xShadowx>
is that physics seconds or realtime seconds?
<NathanKell>
realtime
<NathanKell>
I don't think Unity's added fixed seconds yielding yet
<NathanKell>
annoying
<NathanKell>
I had to write my own
<xShadowx>
whered you use that? heh
<rsparkyc>
looks like i can do IEnumerator<YieldInstruction>
<rsparkyc>
yield return new WaitForFixedUpdate();
<NathanKell>
yep, but that only waits for the next fixed frame, not (arbitrary number of them)
<rsparkyc>
well that's in a while loop
<NathanKell>
yeah
<NathanKell>
good
<rsparkyc>
then a yield break at the end
<rsparkyc>
let's see if that works
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<rsparkyc>
nope...
<xShadowx>
yield break? why?o.O
<rsparkyc>
maybe at the end i yield for 3 seconds
Pap|AFK is now known as Pap
<NathanKell>
you probably want something like, in start, startcoroutine(whatever). Then while(!part.started) yield return new WiatForNextFixedUpdate(); then yield return waitforseconds(1); then flag dirty and run the thing
<rsparkyc>
yeah, the only change with that and what i had was the waitforseconds
<rsparkyc>
let me add logging to make sure that's getting called properly
<Pap>
Rokker: did the Ariane launch happen, or did it get scrubbed?
<rsparkyc>
NathanKell: there's also part.editorStarted
<Rokker>
Pap: happened
<Pap>
damn, missed it, but worth it
<rsparkyc>
ahh, i also had dirty flag before waitforseconds
<rsparkyc>
it's hard to get to orbit when you're fixing bugs :)
<NathanKell>
rsparkyc: Ah, yes, you want an || for either started, then
<NathanKell>
wb Pap
<Pap>
<--- is not familiar with ^ acronym
<NathanKell>
also rsparkyc you want the changed=true to be after the waitforseconds
<NathanKell>
Pap: Welcome Back
<Pap>
Yep, now I get it! Thanks NK
<NathanKell>
oh you didn't even leave, I just misread :D
<Pap>
No, I pretty much did leave, I was connected on mobile, but not reading chat for a while
<rsparkyc>
i've been copying over the wrong binary…
<NathanKell>
rsparkyc: Heh :]
<NathanKell>
dis why I just symlink git to gamedata
<rsparkyc>
i should
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<rsparkyc>
hey, it works now :)
<NathanKell>
\o/
<rsparkyc>
snaps in place after a second
<NathanKell>
would you mind sending me that binary? ^_^
<NathanKell>
and try lowering waitforseconds as far as you can--you may not have to have it at all, or 0.05 might be enough
<rsparkyc>
i'm going to create a release on my fork
<soundnfury>
i'm going to bed
<soundnfury>
hf all
<soundnfury>
(play more and sync :P ;)
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: About to :P
<NathanKell>
although I'll STILL BE IN SUSPENSE
<NathanKell>
because rsparkyc might steal from me _again_ :P
<Pap>
^this sounds accurate
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<soundnfury>
NathanKell: ah but if he does he won't get anything for it, because he has the leader flag :P
<soundnfury>
so the only reason for him to do it would be to spite you xD
<rsparkyc>
haha
<Pap>
Ah, the spite is strong in this one
<Agathorn>
oh man meeleing another mech to death is insanely satisfying
<Rokker>
so
<xShadowx>
<soundnfury> so the only reason for him to do it would be to spite you xD <--- entirely valid reasons :P
<Rokker>
anyone gonna do an SPP since they did the info release
<Rokker>
or I guess it's PSP now
<KevinStarwaster>
went away for about 10 min... came back and MJ2 was propelling my rover at about 40m/s unguided. In fact the speed control was disabled but it's freaking out and won't disconnect from the motors
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: Ah, gotcha!
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|Twitch
<KevinStarwaster>
then it hit a seam while I was trying to put on the brakes and started flipping over and over and over. I have no idea how I didn't lose pieces right then and there. Even my deployable solar panels survived and it landed on its wheels
<NathanKell|Twitch>
wow!
<NathanKell|Twitch>
nice catch :)
<Agathorn>
whee first BT skirtmish I won.. pretty damned fun for an early beta game
<Agathorn>
I might stream some over the weekend because I know some people are interested
<Rokker>
I'm just realizing that SPP is of of the first cases I can think of that has a retracting solar panel
<rsparkyc>
but you should be able to give that a shot
<rsparkyc>
(and anyone else for that matter)
<KevinStarwaster>
why
<KevinStarwaster>
what does it do
<Agathorn>
makes you irresitible
<Agathorn>
to fire ants
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<Agathorn>
yo regex
<regex>
o/
<lamont>
stock navball
<rsparkyc>
yes :(
NathanKell|Twitch is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
rsparkyc: Thanks much!
<rsparkyc>
no problem
<lamont>
i think i may break up the “prevent unstable ignitions” function into two things — 1. literally only prevent ignitions when its unstable — risky or very risky is allowed (presumably you were slow on the hot staging or sounding rocket ignition) and 2. a new button for auto-RCS ullaging that fires RCS to bring you up to very stable before it allows you to fire the throttle (and is only active if you’ve got active RCS —although w
<lamont>
just saw how that might go wrong)
<lamont>
that should address a lot of the issues where its a bit too stupid to use right now
<KevinStarwaster>
I don't like the interest my cat is showing towards the mouse cursor
Agathorn is now known as Agathorn|Twitch
<Agathorn|Twitch>
Battletech if anyone is interested.. probably not a long stream
<KevinStarwaster>
lamont, just IMO the ullaging code goes wrong when complexities get introduced. Remember that the whole MJ2 code base has a lot of interconnecting parts and changing one thing affects a lot of other code
<lamont>
yeah, i’ve actually got a code that simplifies your patch considerably that i need to test
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|AFK
<KevinStarwaster>
I thought I left things pretty stable in that patch. In fact I'm still on that build
<lamont>
its most likely stable code, its just complex, the NodeExecutor needs to know an awful lot about ullaging and throttling
<rsparkyc>
soundnfury: i feel like NathanKell should be the leader now
<rsparkyc>
i'm past the date he got to orbit
<Pap>
Just had a really good ISS pass over the house
<rsparkyc>
nice
<KevinStarwaster>
lamont what effect does that have on burn time calculations? MJ2 should still be able to determine burn time even if it can't fire the engine due to RF
<lamont>
correct
NathanKell|AFK is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<lamont>
i added a bit of yappage in the description of the PR
<lamont>
the intent of that PR is that “throttleFixedLimit” becomes “the throttle limit other than ullage” while “throttleLimit” is the actually applied throttle limit that includes ullage limiting.
<KevinStarwaster>
ok so it shouldn't have any effect on that?
<lamont>
so NodeExecutor only looks at the former (everything other than ullage) and will typically see “1.0” for the throttle limit even when the ullage limiter is kicked in and setting to zero
<KevinStarwaster>
THIS concerns me: if (double.IsNaN(throttleFixedLimit)) throttleFixedLimit = 0;
<lamont>
that is just copypasta of prior defensive coding against throttleLimit
<KevinStarwaster>
if anything ever does happen that causes that to be NaN then the autopilot will just opaquely fail to throttle with the end user being none the wiser as to why. From their perspective, MJ2 will just have blown through a maneuver node and failed to execute
<lamont>
i don’t think either of those defensive bits of code will ever execute and don’t see how they’d wind up NaN, but someone did that to throttleLimit and clamped it to [0,1]
<lamont>
ohhh
<KevinStarwaster>
they'll complain, be asked to provide logs and those logs should contain that the throttle didn't fire because of the NaN
<NathanKell>
rsparkyc, soundnfury: I did a resync just in case
<NathanKell>
no dice
<Pap>
NathanKell: someone had a question for me about what nodes would unlock new Fuel Tanks and Procedural Sizes since the Materials Science nodes are meant to be Blue Sky Research, it should be fine to either A) Have them unlock a few parts / procedural upgrades, or B) to have applied techs in the Materials Scicence lanes
<lamont>
i can change that to 1.0
<KevinStarwaster>
nathankell put it in a bag of rice
<Pap>
Do you have a preference, or thought on it?
<lamont>
i’m pretty certain that is dead code, but i can make it better dead code
<NathanKell>
I think they're fine to have them unlock a few things like tank size.
<NathanKell>
I dunno, if you think it'd look neater to have an applied tech follow them that'd work too
Agathorn|Twitch is now known as Agathorn
<lamont>
KevinStarwaster: pushed a fix to set it to 1.0 instead
<KevinStarwaster>
ij,,,
<NathanKell>
aw crap, I missed you Agathorn!
<Agathorn>
I'm try to stream a match or two this weekend/tomorrow or something as well
<Agathorn>
its a lot of fun
<rsparkyc>
oh you got to be kidding me, a 4000 x 73 orbit…
<NathanKell>
:\
<NathanKell>
insertion at a nonzero vertical velocity ftw
<Pap>
rsparkyc: sounds like you have been watching my playthrough
<rsparkyc>
lol
<rsparkyc>
precession was getting me
<NathanKell>
So...I looked into trying to do a lunar flyby before unlocking lunar-rated heatshields
<NathanKell>
I.e. right at Basic Orbital Rocketry
<NathanKell>
But it means 22t NIMLEO. So...yeah.
<Agathorn>
NIMLEO?
<NathanKell>
nominal initial mass in LEO
<Agathorn>
you made that up
<rsparkyc>
he must of
<rsparkyc>
i googled
<Agathorn>
busted!
<NathanKell>
IMLEO is the one used more often
<NathanKell>
NIMLEO I actually got from the KSP forums
<NathanKell>
the old Duna Colony Challenge from...somebody whose name started with S, I forgot
<Agathorn>
so what does it mean? I can't quite understand
<Agathorn>
maybe because i'm drunk
<rsparkyc>
well, sad, day 278, and still no orbit
<rsparkyc>
but my rocket has over 11 m/s of deltaV
<rsparkyc>
so there's that
<rsparkyc>
going to bed now
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<NathanKell>
Agathorn: Sorry, it means the mass of what you place in orbit, before doing anything else to it
<NathanKell>
so like the Apollo stack would have a NIMLEO of about 120t IIRC (since the S-IVB was partially expended)
<Agathorn>
night!
<NathanKell>
o/
<Pap>
Night NathanKell! I should be able to get much more work done next week after my daughter's birthday party. Have a good night
<NathanKell>
Pap: Night! And awesome!
Pap is now known as Pap|Sleep
<NathanKell>
Oh, and I just verified I can place 9t in LEO from the Basic nodes
<NathanKell>
Probably up to 12 with Moar Boosters
<acc>
cool :)
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<egg|df|egg>
!wpn NathanKell
* Qboid
gives NathanKell an optical 2N3904
<egg|df|egg>
NathanKell: have you seen maccollo's principia challenge?
<egg|df|egg>
NathanKell: blargblargblarg your issue isn't a manageability issue then? :-\
<NathanKell>
I don't believe so, no
<egg|df|egg>
NathanKell: hmmm
<NathanKell>
But it's clearly reproducible with Principia and goes away on removal of just Principia, and seems to affect many parts with small child transforms
<egg|df|egg>
are there any such parts in stock?
<NathanKell>
I can't say it affects all however, haven't tested a large engine with a fakeautoshroud
<NathanKell>
Does the 48-7S have a shroud now? that'd be the right size
<NathanKell>
You might have to scale up the planet tho
<NathanKell>
if it's precision related it might not show (or not show as badly) in stockscale
<egg|df|egg>
NathanKell: is the creation of a vessel for launch atomic, or does it occur over several frames/various timings of one frame (in particular one transform not being set up at the same time as its children in some sense)
<egg|df|egg>
also, E0601 19:25:53.256999 9340 interface.cpp:631] The timewarp limit for Jupiter vanishes << the timewarp limits of RSS are all over the place aren't they
<NathanKell>
Hmm.
<NathanKell>
Well, I _think_ they all get spawned at once and then moved to position, all in the same method
<NathanKell>
but it's been a while
<NathanKell>
It occurs with both stock launching and KCT, so you can see KCT's spawn code...
<egg|df|egg>
NathanKell: I feel like #1421 and #1307 are going to be hell to debug >_<
<NathanKell>
1307 for sure yes
<NathanKell>
OH WAIT
<NathanKell>
that's kind of a stock issue
<egg|df|egg>
wait which one?
<egg|df|egg>
what
<egg|df|egg>
why
<NathanKell>
If you have something on rails nearby and go to physwarp, it starts to pull away, but snaps back when you go back to 1x
<NathanKell>
1307
<NathanKell>
I couldn't figure it out for all of 1.2, had to give up
<NathanKell>
I'm wondering if 1307 is related
<NathanKell>
physwarp is _weird_
<egg|df|egg>
NathanKell: but they say that it doesn't occur when they force-stop prinicpia
* egg|df|egg
can't type principia
<egg|df|egg>
also it's when engines are on only, which seems like a clue (we go through a different code path under intrinsic acceleration)
<egg|df|egg>
but then again we should never rotate things, so tricky
<egg|df|egg>
as for 1421, blaaargh wtf
<NathanKell>
Ok, then it may not be related to the stock issue, I'm just wracking my brains
<NathanKell>
(1307)
<NathanKell>
1421, I tried looking at the code but I couldn't figure out what attached to your VesselProcessor delegate
<egg|df|egg>
NathanKell: also, heard about the general approach to i18n in 1.3 >_>
* egg|df|egg
stabs the universe
<egg|df|egg>
(see also kspacademia for additional headdesking)
<NathanKell>
I don't know any details of it, actually
<NathanKell>
I mean, Lingoona seemed good to me, but allocing arrays on every parse?
<NathanKell>
(I was pro Lingoona at the time)
<NathanKell>
what's the issue with Lingoona?
<ferram4>
Did I hear that Squad fucked up?
<ferram4>
Should I get the pitchforks?
<egg|df|egg>
NathanKell: well, in general, string concatenation never works, programmatic grammar is a combination of always wrong and combinatorial explosion;
<egg|df|egg>
(string concatenation never works, and one should even worry about *implicit* string concatenation)
<egg|df|egg>
(stuff like UI with elements following a sentence order is profoundly evil)
<NathanKell>
So what _does_ work then? Because the strings still need to be programmatically geneated for e.g. contract params
<egg|df|egg>
NathanKell: CLDR-like things
<egg|df|egg>
which is sort of similar at a sufficiently high lever perhaps, except they have already figured out what you need for things like polish or arabic
<egg|df|egg>
(grammatical number is tricky!)
<egg|df|egg>
(grammatical gender is nuts!)
<egg|df|egg>
e.g. CLDR knows about languages where 21 and 31 etc. is grammatically like 1
<egg|df|egg>
knows how to deal with the grammatical gender of lists in all sorts of languages (some where masculine if any is masculine, some where it's that of the first, some where it's that of the last, some where there's a special gender for mixed lists)
<NathanKell>
huh, nifty
<egg|df|egg>
NathanKell: just the plurals thing is fun
<egg|df|egg>
you know about things that have singular dual plural no doubt
<egg|df|egg>
NathanKell: which means that you provide your string zero:"there are no dogs" one:"there is one dog" other:"there are $count dogs" and the welsh or polish translator expands that template to deal with the case where there are 31 dogs or half a dog or whatnot
<NathanKell>
sorry, got to go to bed tho :\
<NathanKell>
but that's a good point on grammar. As usual :P
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|AWAY
<egg|df|egg>
NathanKell: mind you the lingoona people probably converge on that eventually
<egg|df|egg>
but CLDR is a behemoth to reinvent
<NathanKell|AWAY>
quite probably yes, it seemed going in that direction
<Qboid>
NathanKell|AWAY: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [01.06.2017 14:48:12]: "saw your message about PP/ProcFairings: dirtying the changed state in the UpdateFixed loop does seem to resolve that issue, but is there any way to force it to dirty itself only after everything has been loaded?"
<NathanKell|AWAY>
heh
<NathanKell|AWAY>
right
<NathanKell|AWAY>
that
<NathanKell|AWAY>
anyhow
<NathanKell|AWAY>
o/
<egg|df|egg>
\o
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<HypergolicSkunk>
hi guys o/ is there a current way to make an RO/RSS/RP-0 install more beautiful? RSSVE which includes EVE makes the game extremely slow.
<HypergolicSkunk>
scatterer on its own doesn't seem to do much
<HypergolicSkunk>
unless I forgot to somehow configure it?
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<soundnfury>
NathanKell|AWAY: yeah I think I know why that happened, will fix some time in next 12 hrs
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<leudaimon>
o/
<rsparkyc>
\o
<rsparkyc>
why is my MM cache getting invalidated? I didn't change anything...
<leudaimon>
soundnfury, shouldn't NK have taken the lead, given everyone is ahead of the day he build the sat?
<leudaimon>
rsparkyc, I wonder if it's RIS
<rsparkyc>
yeah, i asked that last night
<rsparkyc>
ooo, maybe it it RIS
<leudaimon>
I asked that to soundnfury a couple days ago but I think he didn't see the message
<rsparkyc>
i don't think anything is changing in there though, unless he writes data to some place other than RIS, i don't see any files changing
<leudaimon>
hmm it was my first guess because I think I could load the cache before installing it
<leudaimon>
but my install is recent and I've been installing stuff until recently
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<Pap|Sleep>
Alright, I put in the time and finally created an RO Discord. This IRC will obviously be the focus for everyone still, buit I want to have it as an alternative for all
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<xShadowx>
Pap: i thought the alternative was the one CobaltWolf runs XD
<leudaimon>
cool Pap! is that "hole" in staged combustion engines during the 3rd era desirable?
<Pap>
xShadowx: that one is not RO focused at all, I guess it could be added, but the maturity level displayed in that server is not at all similar to what is found here
<xShadowx>
nice man on moon icon
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<Theysen>
xShadowx, y u have 2 usernames :^)
<Pap>
leudaimon: So, based on what I have found with the engines we have configged, the first Staged Cmbustion engine was the S1.5400 and that was first flown in 1960, the next Staged Combustion Engine was the NK-9 in 1964
Thomas|AWAY is now known as Thomas
<xShadowx>
Theysen: b/c this one i used in irc to be diff from forums to hide from pesky users who may use my mods ;p
<Theysen>
XD XD
<Theysen>
Damn good idea
<KevinStarwaster>
Why -> From 45 minutes after insertion to the end of the first orbit, the
<KevinStarwaster>
vehicle is rolled 180 degrees and pitched 20 degrees below local horizontal.
<KevinStarwaster>
I guess the roll is to even out heating but why the pitch down?
<Pap>
KevinStarwaster: Communications made cleaner? <---complete guess
<KevinStarwaster>
no mention made of communications... it's a preprogrammed move scheduled after 45 minutes into the parking orbit. ...
<Theysen>
which vehicel?
<leudaimon>
Pap, I never know exactly how much historical accuracy is desired here, so I start making gameplay suggestions where the history is to be followed...
<leudaimon>
this is probably the case
<KevinStarwaster>
Saturn V
<KevinStarwaster>
here's the document if you want to read it. It's got a LOT of information about the guidance programs used
<KevinStarwaster>
was a pain in the ass to find; the NTRS server didn't have it
<Theysen>
probably heating too
<Pap>
leudaimon: I do not exactly how historical we want to go either. That is part of the reason I am trying to keep everything as open and updated as possible to get feedback like you are providing. I think it will come along with playtesting as well
<Theysen>
but if there's not more info on it it could be literally for every reason :(
<Pap>
KevinStarwaster, Theysen: would atmospheric drag factor into that decision?
<Theysen>
not in a Sat V parking orbit
<KevinStarwaster>
well at that altitude you still have drag
<KevinStarwaster>
given that 2.5 orbits in they're going to burn for the moon, I dunno how much they would be factoring in drag
<Theysen>
but that shouldn't be a reason to pitch down 20°, in contrary you would want to streamline as much as possible if you want least drag or do I miss something?
<KevinStarwaster>
it could be to do with the propulsive venting that they're doing...
<Pap>
and thanks KevinStarwaster another file added to my growing space reference folders!
<Theysen>
do they flush through the engines or some other valve?
<KevinStarwaster>
up to 45 minutes in they're basically just pointing prograde. Then rotate 180 and pitch down
<KevinStarwaster>
then at the end of the orbit they revert
<KevinStarwaster>
two valves
<KevinStarwaster>
IIRC at the bottom of the stage
<Pap>
45 minutes into their orbit would be about half of the orbital period, so would it push out the Ap and then when they reverse it, it would bring it back? Because of the venting?
<KevinStarwaster>
they also had two non-propulsive vent valves
<KevinStarwaster>
pap maybe
<KevinStarwaster>
btw that was from section 4-1-10
<KevinStarwaster>
4.1.10
<Pap>
KSP is complicated, RO is very complicated, RL Rocket Science is almost beyond comprehension for even you smart people like in this group
<KevinStarwaster>
I also found more detailed information about manual control and it really just amounted to making sure that the rocket had the proper pitch angle according to how far into the launch they were
<KevinStarwaster>
which the pilot would determine according to a piece of paper taped to the console
<xShadowx>
ksp? complicated? slapping parts everywhere randomly and hitting go is complicated how?:P
<KevinStarwaster>
a pitch/yaw limit of 0.5 degrees per second were in place to prevent oversteering
<Pap>
xShadowx: for someone that had no understanding of orbital mechanics, I can assure you KSP was difficult when I first started
<KevinStarwaster>
look at figures 4-1, 4-2 and 4-3
<KevinStarwaster>
logic tables
<KevinStarwaster>
and formulae... I have no idea what they mean, that math is beyond me
<KevinStarwaster>
might help if I knew what the terms were
<xShadowx>
Pap: when i started i just went 'up', then turned to circularize :D
<Pap>
xShadowx: I went up, then crashed :)
<Pap>
I also strted late, I was a 1.0 adopter
<xShadowx>
Pap: s/crashed/back down, to help test gravity worked
<Qboid>
xShadowx thinks Pap meant to say: xShadowx: I went up, then back down, to help test gravity worked :)
<Pap>
lol
<Pap>
That is how I learned the gravitational constant of 9.81.....m/s
<Pap>
leudaimon: one thing to remember is that there were not a ton of engines developed by the Soviets during the early part of the 60's. They just kept improving the very successful RD-107/108
<leudaimon>
Pap, you are right. Btw, just saw your reply on the tree issue. Thanks for the detailed explanation!
<Pap>
Anytime! If you take the time to give feedback, I will try to give time to explain what my thoughts are!
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<leudaimon>
:)
<Agathorn>
Morning
<Pap>
o/ Agathorn
<LittleJoe>
Morning
<Qboid>
LittleJoe: stratochief|away left a message for you in #RO [01.06.2017 17:21:29]: "the first RP-0 release won't be the save breaking one, it will actually be the one after that when we change the building levels and tech tree"
<KevinStarwaster>
next DRE update: screaming Kerbals when they're getting hurt. (EVA only I think...)
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<xShadowx>
KevinStarwaster: the animation for the face? like override the stupid/happy look and force scared regardless of stupidity/courage stats?
<KevinStarwaster>
no, an audio scream
<xShadowx>
oh :|
<KevinStarwaster>
though... there has been an anaimation override in place for over a year now
<xShadowx>
i wanna tier the screaming / look into my ls mod :D
<KevinStarwaster>
which is supposed to force them to act scared but it doesnt work as well after some KSP update or other
<xShadowx>
tie*
<KevinStarwaster>
basically, if any part of the vehicle is on fire I fire the game event for exploding parts
<KevinStarwaster>
and... maybe if it's even overheating. I forget exactly when it gets fired
<KevinStarwaster>
the screaming though will only be done on eva kerbals
<KevinStarwaster>
oh.... maybe if something is on fire or exploding around an EVA kerbal they should scream too????
<KevinStarwaster>
what do you think
<KevinStarwaster>
dammit, got to get around to replacing the particle emitters
<KevinStarwaster>
anyone know if it got deprecated in 1.3?
<xShadowx>
how well would a mod go - make the maxtemp more into reliability, closer you get to max higher chance itll explode, at 'close' still has a tiny chance
<KevinStarwaster>
ok, time to test the scream... sadly, this will involve sending a Kerbal to a fiery death
<xShadowx>
KevinStarwaster: wildfire mod, walk into the fire~
<HypergolicSkunk>
Pap: may I ask ... where are those landing legs in your updated tech-tree? :p
<KevinStarwaster>
xshadowx DRE sort of does that... as you exceed a threshold that has a default value of maxTemp * 0.85 you take damage. If enough damage accumulates, the part dies
<xShadowx>
ah k
<Agathorn>
why only on eva kerbals?
<Pap>
HypergolicSkunk: the smallest landing legs will be in 1960 (The micro legs or whatver) Actual useable legs will be in 1964
<KevinStarwaster>
try sending a Kerbal into reentry
<Graf>
hey KevinStarwaster how does DRE work nowadays?
<HypergolicSkunk>
KevinStarwaster: any kind of regime you'd like the Kerbal to be put through? :)
<Graf>
doesn't stock ksp have both heating and g-force deaths?
<KevinStarwaster>
no to gforce deaths
<KevinStarwaster>
gforce LOC
<KevinStarwaster>
aas far as heating, I let stock handle that but I rebalance max temps
<KevinStarwaster>
one area of overlap is gforce damage. I think DRE will keep that and I'll override the stock system. Right now they both operate concurrently so that I can evaluate them both
<KevinStarwaster>
the way DRE works though is that it damages the part and stores that damage which can be repaired by an engineer
<KevinStarwaster>
the stock method just destroys the part
<KevinStarwaster>
ah the stock kerbal gforce LOC wo0rks fine alongside DRE's gforce death
<KevinStarwaster>
does that answer your question Graf?
<KevinStarwaster>
can't risk Jeb so Henbus Kerman will be testing the new scream for us. You will be missed Henbus!
<KevinStarwaster>
you heartless monsters. I hope you're satisfied with Henbus' sacrifice :(
<Graf>
I love me some G-Loc
<Graf>
solid stuff
<Agathorn>
kill em all
<KevinStarwaster>
Even Val???
<Agathorn>
I never could grow any sort of attachement to kerbals
<Agathorn>
their like greenanimated garden gnomes
<Agathorn>
they're
<Agathorn>
geesh
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<KevinStarwaster>
what do you have against garden gnomes??
<KevinStarwaster>
wow I had no idea that this hate filled aspect of you existed... so disappointed!
<KevinStarwaster>
garden gnome hating monster!
<KevinStarwaster>
ok... uhm I hear fire sounds but no screaming and I see no flames
<KevinStarwaster>
crap and a null ref...
<KevinStarwaster>
ok put new preview build up to fix the nullref
<xShadowx>
daz racist man
<KevinStarwaster>
does anyone have any data on the cooling garment worn by astronauts? How much heat it removed?
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<KevinStarwaster>
omg it worked beautifully
<KevinStarwaster>
also the facial expression DID change in his helmet while he was on fire
<KevinStarwaster>
someone try it!
<KevinStarwaster>
oh shit
<KevinStarwaster>
you need the scream file
<xShadowx>
can i acquire the valid bits and add to my LS mod?;p
<KevinStarwaster>
oh uhm except the scream file... I have no idea what the license is on that...
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<schnobs>
Heya. Last time I was around I made some noise about slipstream issues, then had to get off in two minutes.
<Qboid>
schnobs: stratosleep left a message for you in #RO [21.05.2017 12:46:03]: "yeah, I compare my ballistic co-efficient and L/D ratio to historical craft, then estimate what speed and altitude I'll end up at with just the heatshield. I generally release a Drogue around 10-15 km altitude manually once I'm below Mach 1.5, ballistic coeff. of ~15 kg/m^2"
<Qboid>
schnobs: stratosleep left a message for you in #RO [21.05.2017 12:47:48]: "I also 'fire in the hole' light the engines in my lander at shield seperation, to give us some distance. solids to push away the shield has worked for me before too"
<Qboid>
schnobs: stratosleep left a message for you in #RO [21.05.2017 12:46:14]: "*125 kg/m^2"
<schnobs>
yeah, that's at least related.
<schnobs>
Other issue was how Mercury & Gemini nosecones won't separate well. They separate for a meter or two, then come back to bounce into the vessel.
<schnobs>
If you manage to shake them off, they'll soon fall behind. Which makes me believe that the "come back to bump you" thing might be caused by the capsules' slipstream.
<schnobs>
Which also makes me wonder if it makes heatshield separation extra difficult.
<KevinStarwaster>
see his facial expressions change?
<egg>
rsparkyc: it does look like your issue, but my question is whether you have checked that it's principia-specific
<xShadowx>
KevinStarwaster: gotta lay off the beans man
<egg>
rsparkyc: it doesn't say so in the issue, and I don't want to be led astray by something that just happens to look related
<rsparkyc>
i can update the issue. I only see it with principia
<rsparkyc>
egg ^
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<egg>
ok, good to know
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<KevinStarwaster>
xshadowx oooo if you fart into the reentry shockwave, will it ignite?
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<Vekenti>
Hey guys I have a question. Does anyone here know of a career mode mod for RO in ksp version 1.2.2? RP-0 is the only one I know of,but it hasn't been updated since 1.1.3.
<Pap>
Vekenti: use the developmental version of RP-0 available on the Github
<Vekenti>
hmm really? Did not know there was a dev version. Thank you, do you know how stable it is? Is it at least playable?
<regex>
Is the spreadsheet now being updated for 1.3 or is it still 1.2?
<lamont>
Pap: you should rebase master and force push on your branch
<Pap>
lamont: I don't understand those words :(
<lamont>
uh, you’re behind master
<lamont>
% git checkout Pap-Contracts
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<lamont>
% git rebase origin/master
<lamont>
% git status
<lamont>
On branch Pap-Contracts
<lamont>
Your branch and 'origin/Pap-Contracts' have diverged,
<lamont>
and have 9 and 13 different commits each, respectively.
<lamont>
(use "git pull" to merge the remote branch into yours)
<lamont>
nothing to commit, working tree clean
<Pap>
lamont: as of late last night, I was up to date
<Pap>
I am showing that I am 13 commits ahead, but not behind at all, what am I missing?
<lamont>
that means you’re up to date with your branch, master is 9 commit ahead of you though
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<lamont>
once you’ve rebased though you’ll have to force push your branch: ‘git push -f origin Pap-Contracts’
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<Theysen>
hallo
<Pap>
gotta go, i'll look at it tonight, thanks lamont
<egg>
Sarbian: do you happen to know when OnStart and OnStartFinished are called, and in particular whether any timings can run in between? tea leaves for OnStart(Finished) end in a mess of IEnumerator
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<Sarbian>
OnStart is most likely related to the Unity Start, so before the object fist tick
<Agathorn>
and OnStartFinished is most likely called after all OnStarts have been called?
<Agathorn>
so shouldn't be any frame tick in between I wouldn't think - but its possible depending on how KSP determines to call OnStartFinished
<Agathorn>
I could see it happeng two ways..1 an din ternal tracking so it happens at the end of all Onstarts but in the same frame, or 2) as a one off item that happens at the first tick which guaruntees all Starts are done, in that case a frame would have occured
<Agathorn>
but those are just educated guess to be honest
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<Agathorn>
that said I wouldn't expect any frames to occur between one object and the next unless they are distributing it over multiple ticks for performance
<Agathorn>
considering how bad KSP performs though I find that doubtful :)
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<KevinStarwaster>
OnStart gets called from or through Start ... on Part I believe... it cycles through the PartModules and calls their OnStart if they have it
<egg>
lamont: What is the name of this OS, Apple Macintosh, Mac OS, Mac OS X, OS X, macOS? I am confused... :-p
<egg>
lamont: clearly we should name the build System7 :D
<Agathorn>
KevinStarwaster: yeah which is pretty much what Sarbian and I said :)
<Agathorn>
just not in so much detail
<rsparkyc>
egg: macOS is the official name
<Agathorn>
egg and it really isn't confuding, you are just overstating things :)
<KevinStarwaster>
agathorn apparently not QUITE the way I said though... I did trace it once but I can't quite remember where everything happens. But that was the gist of it
<KevinStarwaster>
most of the guts IS in Part though
<Agathorn>
KevinStarwaster: OnStart is a KSP extension, not Unity. It is just piggybacking on Unity's Start for Part/PartModule
<KevinStarwaster>
yeah I know
<Agathorn>
either way though it should still all be happening as a direct result on Unity Start
<Agathorn>
OnStartFinished though is a total KSPism
<egg>
I know that
<egg>
but that's not my question
<egg>
my question is whether something non-partmodule can run in between
<egg>
(using the timing manager, which we use eggstensively)
<Agathorn>
and doesn't have a Unity analogue.. so the question is, how does KSP know that all Onstart's are done. Is it using an internal trackign, and thus can call OnstartFinished *in the same frame* as the OnStarts are done, or is is using a later Unity event which would most likely occure a frame AFTER all OnStarts
<egg>
Agathorn: even within the same frame, there are many timings
<egg>
so is it done at another timing
<Agathorn>
egg I would say amost ssuredly somthign no partmodule could be running
<Agathorn>
not*
<egg>
because if moving something from OnStart to OnStartFinished fixes a principia interaction that seems like a clue
<Agathorn>
well its the classic race condition right..if everyoneis doing things in Start/OnStart, there is no guaruntee of order
<Agathorn>
Principia doesn't use the KSP API though right? So what is it doing and where is it hooking in?
<lamont>
egg: yeah just use MacOSX64 and aggressively ignore Apple’s marketing department…
<Agathorn>
marketing? please
<KevinStarwaster>
maybe if you thread it
<Agathorn>
Mac OS X simply meant OS 10.. no different than Windows 8, 9 10
<Agathorn>
they just stayed on the 10th iteration for so long peopel started to treat is as its own OS name
<KevinStarwaster>
I heard something burning in the background and it scared me and I mashed the keyboard
<Agathorn>
OSX isn't an operating system name
<Agathorn>
your part of the problem not the solution :)
<rsparkyc>
mine is 10.12.5
<rsparkyc>
and it's mackOS
<lamont>
Tru64 isn’t an O/S name either
<rsparkyc>
s/mack/mac
<Qboid>
rsparkyc meant to say: and it's macOS
<Agathorn>
I think they just didn't want to keep using a version number given they seem unlikely to ever move past 10.x lol
<Agathorn>
I could totally see Windows doing the same thing given they claim they will be staying on Windows 10 as well
<Agathorn>
besdies, everyoen just calls it Windows anyway
<Agathorn>
so why can't Mac do the smae thing?
<egg>
<lamont> egg: yeah just use MacOSX64 and aggressively ignore Apple’s marketing department… << agreed :D
<Agathorn>
sigh
<lamont>
% ohai | egrep platform
<Agathorn>
love the double standards from geeks
<lamont>
"platform": "mac_os_x",
<egg>
lamont: either that or I ignore it *very* aggressively and I call it apple macintosh :D
<rsparkyc>
just say "that other platform"
<lamont>
chef calls it “mac_os_x” and since i work there and i’m definitely never changing that shit, its “mac_os_x” for ever for me
<Agathorn>
Linux is commonly know as Linux. Windows is commonly known as just Windows. Why can't Mac OS just be known as a versionless macOs as well?
<rsparkyc>
or just mac
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<egg>
I don't care, I'm not the one writing the configs :-p
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<lamont>
if you want to get technical its running on ‘darwin'
<lamont>
% uname -a
<lamont>
Darwin coredump.scriptkiddie.lan 15.6.0 Darwin Kernel Version 15.6.0: Thu Jun 23 18:25:34 PDT 2016; root:xnu-3248.60.10~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64
<egg>
yeah, was going to say, that's really the string I'm seeing in the conditionals :-p
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<lamont>
Darwin is the proper name for the engine under the hood
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<egg>
it's not like we use marketing names for those directories either, it's Win32 and x64 for the Windows binaries (Win32 no more, but used to be there)
<lamont>
you have to put on the body panels and the spoiler and the Type-R sticker for it to be called “MacOSX^H^H^H^H^H^H^HmacOS”
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<egg>
(not sure why MSVC dumps its win32 binaries in Win32 but its win64 binaries in x64 :-p)
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<Agathorn>
yes Darwin is he equivelant of win32
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<Agathorn>
egg even more annoying that windows puts 64 bit stuff into 32bit folders :D If you are going to go to the level of naming the folders for 32 and 64 you would think you would at leats use them properly
<lamont>
i think its historical — probably because there’s “WoW64” which looks like “Win64” so “x64” became the 64-bit native stuff
<Agathorn>
and plety of other applications that follow the same bad practice
<lamont>
yeah its quite stupid, but if you dig into it, its all driven by stupid backcompat issues
<Agathorn>
wow64 isn't 64bit really
<Agathorn>
its 32bit emulation under 64bit
<lamont>
yes, hence the confusion
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<egg>
lamont: yeah, makes sense
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<Agathorn>
ahh Valve has announced the new develoepr fee.. only $100 thank god!
<Vekenti>
Hmm. Im on the dev version of RP-0, and all the parts say NON RP-0, is that just normal?
<Agathorn>
you most likely didn't build a tree or get a prebuilt one?
<Agathorn>
just grabbing the source for rp-0 doesn't give you a full working install
<Vekenti>
hmm ok i didnt know exactly if i had to do that or not
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<Vekenti>
alright i built the tree,that should fix it right?
<acharles>
lamont: Seems like the Tree.cfg that I downloaded didn’t process that correctly?
<soundnfury>
leudaimon, rsparkyc: yeah, I'm aware of it, I think I know the problem and now that I'm back from work I'm gonna try to fix :)
<rsparkyc>
cool
<rsparkyc>
should i hold of on syncing?
<rsparkyc>
(don't want to mess up the current state if it helps you debug)
<soundnfury>
actually, I need someone to sync now to poke it (quicksave first just in case; I've backed up the gamefile)
<soundnfury>
eh nvm I can poke it by hand
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<soundnfury>
tadaa, fixed
<soundnfury>
you can go ahead and sync now
<soundnfury>
(and when NathanKell syncs he should get some monies)
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<acharles>
lamont: Where did you get your Tree.cfg from? I downloaded the one from PhineasFreak that’s linked in the forum thread. It doesn’t seem to contain the BobCat engines
<Theysen>
there were some updates on the soviet engines pack which haven'tg been merged until lately, might have to do with that acharles
<egg>
Sarbian: the thing is I don't want to do something in between, but there's a principia interaction that seems to disappear when moving someone else's logic to onstartfinished; that would seem to indicate that I actually do something in between?
<lamont>
^ that is current RP-0 master build with Pap’s contract fixes with the Tree.cfg regenerated which is what i’m going to play around with later today
<egg>
Sarbian: see also principia#1421, Starwaster/ProceduralParts#3
<Qboid>
[#1421] title: Child transforms move on load flight state with RSS | This (a) may be a duplicate of the Proc SRB Bell issue, if that's been reported, and (b) may be an issue, albeit smaller, with stock size systems (why would I touch stock, so I don't know).... | https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/principia/issues/1421
<CobaltWolf>
gonna try and ask my question again - does anyone know what a sea-level J2's engine nozzle would look like? Is there a way to calculate the length/size/shape of it?
<soundnfury>
CobaltWolf: FYI, we've found a few bugs in the RIS server, make sure you download the top-of-tree rather than the last release
<soundnfury>
(release is fine for the client, it's only the server that's had fixes)
<CobaltWolf>
gotcha, I'll let them know
<acharles>
lamont: Thanks, I’ll give that a try
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<soundnfury>
wow, watching NathanKell's videos with all the beautiful RVE and scatterer and scenery makes me really envious
<soundnfury>
it's so purty
<acharles>
haha
<acharles>
I’ve avoided installing any pretty mods so far
<CobaltWolf>
lol
<soundnfury>
acharles: me too
<soundnfury>
because I don't have teh graphics card
<soundnfury>
but a part of me is regretting that decision :/
<acharles>
I just rather have less things to worry about when something breaks or performance is crappy
<stratochief|away>
CobaltWolf: I don't think there would be a sea level j-2. IIRC, it has a low chamber pressure, which makes it impractical for sea level use?
<stratochief|away>
the shape of the HG-3 or RS-25 would be what you'd want to shoot for, for sea level early american hydrolox?
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<stratochief>
the engine makes me think F-1, J-2, or RL-10. the style/detail makes me think of AIES
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief: it was proposed for Saturn II (the one that basically lopped off the S-1C and added solids for TWR)
<CobaltWolf>
and someone asked, it'd be easy-ish to do
<CobaltWolf>
the J-2 in BDB kinda sucks. I hate that sort of complex UV unwrapping. And of course the Maya viewport makes everything look like shit
<stratochief>
I suppose you leave the part balancing up to someone else for stock
<stratochief>
a higher chamber pressure J-2 (useful for being fired at sea level) would effectively be an HG-3 I think, which is a predecessor to the RS-25
<CobaltWolf>
the proposals eventually moved on to the HG-3, and then were dropped
<CobaltWolf>
and it's not like I have any HG-3 reference either
<stratochief>
yeah. I've build a Saturn IB capacity vehicle, where I replaced the first stage by strapping 4x UA1205 or UA1207 to the sides of the S-IVB, using that as the first stage and lighting the J-2 after they burned out
<stratochief>
so, the J-2 was exposed at launch, but not lit there in my case
<CobaltWolf>
the Saturn II would have ground lit all the J-2s
<Qboid>
[#1609] title: Add HG-3 and HG-3-SL | Adding two historical engines that IRL were stepping stones between the J-2 and the RS-25 aka Space Shuttle Main Engine. | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/issues/1609
<stratochief>
and the RS-25 is the engine used by the shuttle, same one they're using on the SLS
<CobaltWolf>
I know :P
<stratochief>
well, you also asked "are there configs for it in RO" without nailing down 'iti'
<acharles>
I just had an A-4 fail on launch, before I released the clamps… :(
<xShadowx>
:)
<stratochief>
acharles: better than in-flight
<acharles>
Well, recovering from the pad does give you back more money.
<soundnfury>
acharles: nah, roll it back to the VAB
<soundnfury>
stick on a fresh engine (KCT time should be really short) and go again!
<acc>
rolling back when already on the pad?
<acc>
I think that works only if you havn't hit launch before
<soundnfury>
acc: nah, I think you can do it if still clamped?
<acc>
really? hm
<Theysen>
yes just exit to space center iirc
<acharles>
But I’m going to start RP-0 over once I work out the best rocket designs for various contracts
<acharles>
It doesn’t work
<acharles>
I just tried
<acharles>
unless I did something wrong
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<soundnfury>
Theysen: nah, it's a button on KCT. Recover vessel.
<acharles>
super secret hidden feature :P
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<Agathorn>
this is why you should always wait for good booster spin up before releasing the clamps :)
<Agathorn>
that first 5 seconds is important
<lamont>
does time on the clamps count against burntime?
<soundnfury>
yes
<soundnfury>
that's officially what the 5 seconds' grace on the burntime is for
<Agathorn>
intentionally so
<Agathorn>
for this exact reason
<lamont>
ahhhhh
<Agathorn>
just like in real life how they light up a few seconds before 0, to give time for spoolup and onboard computers to verify proper thrust before liftoff
<soundnfury>
(although in practice certain players instead use it to stretch their stages to the red line ;)
<xShadowx>
^
<xShadowx>
no guts no glory
<Agathorn>
:)
<xShadowx>
abort systems were invented fo a reason ;3
<Agathorn>
I usually push my stages a coupel seconds over to be honest
<Agathorn>
but I expect them to fail
<Agathorn>
just figure even if I get a second ro two more its useful
<soundnfury>
I do too
<acharles>
I just need to put my clamps somewhere other than blocking my fins…
<Agathorn>
not on clusters though :D
<xShadowx>
Agathorn: speaking of which need symetric cuttoff incase failures :P
<soundnfury>
Agathorn: ah but if it fails, that two seconds' worth of fuel left in the tanks slaps your Δv in the face
<leudaimon>
single failure in a cluster can be pretty fun*
<Agathorn>
soundnfury: dos it? When it fails I drop the stage
<Agathorn>
I just move to the next stage a little early is all
<Agathorn>
but yeah maybe it does I dunno
<xShadowx>
its dead weight you hauled up though on the gamble you could use it
<acharles>
It increases the effective dry mass of the stage
<soundnfury>
yeah just remember that your acceleration is highest in the final seconds
<Agathorn>
not much, and I usually do get to use a bit of it more than otherwise would
<soundnfury>
so losing those really hurts
<Agathorn>
well thats why I thought it helped, because I get a few MORE seconds
<soundnfury>
really when you add fuel you're adding it to the _start_ of the burn, not the end
<acharles>
Granted, RO doesn’t simulate the fact that real rockets don’t burn all their fuel either
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: in case you didn't notice, the bug in the RIS server is fixed, it's ok to sync some more :)
<Agathorn>
xShadowx: IE syemmetric cutoff, thats what kOS, kRPC is for :)
<Agathorn>
or quick hands
<soundnfury>
(NK has the leader flag now, like he should)
<leudaimon>
ok soundnfury! I'm getting behind but will make up a little in the weekend
<xShadowx>
<3 kOS
<leudaimon>
actually might have a couple weeks I forgot to sync