<LittleJoe>
my install had a problem when installing Ro-0/PartHacks.cfg
<LittleJoe>
That seems to be the only problem I'm getting
<LittleJoe>
any way I can fix this?
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<Saabstory88>
@LittleJoe, what version of KSP?
<LittleJoe>
1.2.2
<Saabstory88>
What exactly is happening, crash on load?
<LittleJoe>
yes while modulemanager is installing the mods
<LittleJoe>
RO-0 with all dependencies and non of the recommended mods
<stratochief>
LittleJoe: there is no such thing as RO-0. do you mean RO, or RP-0 ?
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<NathanKell>
o/
<LittleJoe_>
Sorry, yes RP-0
<Saabstory88>
What’s in your log file?
<LittleJoe_>
Unfourtunatl
<LittleJoe_>
One sec
<stratochief>
LittleJoe: can you check your KSP.log, and grab this set of information, throw it into a pastebin, like so? https://pastebin.com/eEn4Y3My
<stratochief>
previously some people were suggesting it could be VSR, you could just remove that and 'see what happens' ?
<Saabstory88>
@NathanKell,
<LittleJoe_>
I tried to, but it made me remove e RP-0 as well
<LittleJoe_>
I'll get a fresh set of logs here
<Saabstory88>
@NathanKell, I can change my own tank mass, and realFuels will not touch it, correct?
<LittleJoe_>
VSR actually loads fine ingame
<Saabstory88>
I see some fields like basemass, and want to understand how realfuels deals with it
<LittleJoe_>
When module manager starts patching RP-0 the problem pops up
<NathanKell>
Saabstory88: Set basemass = -1
<NathanKell>
that means "don't touch part.mass at all"
<NathanKell>
same for basecost
<LittleJoe_>
Rp-0/PartHacks.cfg is the problem spot
<NathanKell>
(or baseCost ?)
<Saabstory88>
Okay. Sounds good. So the basemass was only really something for use with PP, right?
<stratochief>
LittleJoe: I was suggesting removing VSR manually, rather than going through ckan.
<NathanKell>
Saabstory88: The basemass is used all over
<NathanKell>
basically, what's really happening is it's first set in the TANK_DEFINITION
<NathanKell>
so e.g. fuselage has 'x tonnes * volume' as its basemass
<LittleJoe>
ahh, ok
<NathanKell>
but you can override that in the MODULE to have part-specific basemasses
<LittleJoe>
output_log coming up
<NathanKell>
however, what you should actually probably do is set it dynamically
<Saabstory88>
NathanKell: My plan was to do the math for every tank type at a standard 1m length (including tank ends), and apply a delta based on knowing what x section of barrel section masses
<NathanKell>
blowfish: Since you ahve the source handy, can you set MFT.ParseBaseMass () to public?
<NathanKell>
Saabstory88: Yeah. But tank mass needs to be base mass plus the mass of the actual tanks
<LittleJoe>
I'll attempt to launch without VSR now
<blowfish>
in RF? What does that do?
<stratochief>
NathanKell: any meaning in the mono.dll violation in LittleJoe's pastebin?
<NathanKell>
blowfish: I'm about to tell Saabstory88 to invoke it :]
<NathanKell>
stratochief: Nope
<NathanKell>
need the error log
<NathanKell>
err, the outputlog
<LittleJoe>
Crashed without VSR
<stratochief>
LittleJoe: I had asked for a specific subsection of KSP.log
<NathanKell>
it means that, per liter, the mass of a tank for that resource is (basemass + that mass)
<stratochief>
LittleJoe: thanks. I don't see anything odd there. NathanKell had asked for another log, with which he can probably shed some light onthe problem, output_log
<NathanKell>
Saabstory88: So a kero tank is 0.028kg per liter, dry.
<NathanKell>
(0.016 base, 0.012 tank)
<Saabstory88>
Got it. I had planned on actually doing the math on the historical tank construction to arrive at the masses
<NathanKell>
for tank type Default
<NathanKell>
Ok, then you're golden, and can just use -1 and tell RF to take a hike
<NathanKell>
problem is it varies insanely
<NathanKell>
Consider Titan I first stage (not even baloon!) vs R-7 booster vs Redstone vs Thor
<NathanKell>
That's about 50%+ variation even before considering Redstone
<LittleJoe>
all3 files actually
<Saabstory88>
True, but then choices become about diameter considerations, and cost, which of course will need to be play balanced, but it should still all be trades
<Saabstory88>
Speaking of which, is there a good way to dynamically set the entry cost of a part at load time?
<Saabstory88>
NathanKell: you just saved me so much work
<Saabstory88>
Okay, so my thought was that staying with particular tank/diameter lineages would lower the entry cost of each of the next unlocked tanks. I’ll take a look at RP-0 code knowing that, and take a pass at some point
<NathanKell>
No, I didn't, because you will soon see the hell I went through trying to 'balance' it all :P
<NathanKell>
RP-0 already does that, it's the whole EntryCostModifier system :)
<NathanKell>
oh, by saved work did you mean the RP-0 bit or the pdf?
<NathanKell>
I assumed pdf
<NathanKell>
if you meant RP-0 then yeah, I already did it
<NathanKell>
LittleJoe: Do you have a Firespitter folder? Inside that folder do you have Resources, and inside that a cfg?
<stratochief>
NathanKell: did you catch LittleJoe's log? I'm not nearly as good at interpretting that one
<NathanKell>
stratochief yes, it failed on compiling (it appears) a prop engine
<NathanKell>
stratochief: and it mentioned not finding a resource
<NathanKell>
Prop engines often require bits of Firespitter
<Pap>
o/ all
<NathanKell>
o/
<stratochief>
hmm, he seems to have Firespitter v7.3.6354.39102, according to log
<Bornholio>
Firespitter core 7.5.1 is loading fine (marked 1.3.9KSP)
<NathanKell>
ok, IIRC that has the resource
<Pap>
Is it crashing on AJE?
<Pap>
incompatible versinos between AJE and Firespitter?
<Bornholio>
v2.8.0 AJE is running fine 1.2.2KSP
<NathanKell>
hang on, hmm
<NathanKell>
Invalid float value! Field multFlow, value false on object of type AJE.ModuleEnginesAJEPropeller
<NathanKell>
Confusing, because 1.2 added that bool IIRC
<stratochief>
as a test, would simply removing Firespitter get around that, while also disabling/removing prop engines and some other engines?
<NathanKell>
No, that would break loading
<NathanKell>
because SXT
<NathanKell>
SXT uses FS resources
<LittleJoe_>
Not at my PC at the moment, I think I need some kind of IRC app...
<NathanKell>
Ah, I have that error myself actually, and I load fine
<LittleJoe_>
Would make bookmarking things easier...
<Bornholio>
Full firespitter isn't in any RO/RP-0 relationship is it?
<NathanKell>
blowfish: Weird tho. I wonder if the field was made private at some point?
<NathanKell>
Bornholio: correct
<NathanKell>
I configged some of the parts at one point
<NathanKell>
but never kept up
<Bornholio>
i'll try loading it and see if it crashes things
<stratochief>
I can't build planes worth a damn, so I never kept up on AJE/FS :)
<NathanKell>
LittleJoe how much free RAM do you have?
<NathanKell>
LittleJoe: CTRL-SHF-ESC will bring up task manager
<NathanKell>
maaaan I forgot how good the mass ratios on Titan were
<stratochief>
NathanKell: Titan I as well, or jusst Titan II and beyond?
<blowfish>
hmmm
<NathanKell>
Titan I is even more impressive tbh
<NathanKell>
Titan II has the density advantage of NTO/hydrazine
<Pap>
It looked to me like LittleJoe_ might have been running in 32-bit mode
<Pap>
I could be wrong though
<LittleJoe_>
Where is that option set?
<Bornholio>
if its steam default is 64, otherwise from CKAN its the comand line argunet setting
<LittleJoe_>
I have 16GB of ram 4 dedicated to KSP
<LittleJoe_>
Maybe 8 actually...
<LittleJoe_>
Steam
<LittleJoe_>
And I haven't changed it
<NathanKell>
if you only have 4 for it, that's your problem right there
<stratochief>
yep. if you're only giving RP-0 4 gigs, that'll crash it, unless you're using low quality textures & OpenGL mode
<NathanKell>
output log confirms x64
<stratochief>
mine tends to use 8
<NathanKell>
yeah, I had to go to 32GB last year >.>
<NathanKell>
but that was because I had Unity running too
<NathanKell>
Since it's not firespitter, and that kind of mono crash is exactly what you get when going out of memory, I would guess that's a reasonable possiblity
<Bornholio>
Firespitter full v7.5.1 marked 1.3.9KSP runs fine
<NathanKell>
try having some resource monitor open while KSP loads, and watch your free memory
<NathanKell>
if you have less than a couple gigs free when KSP crashes, try shutting other stuff down before starting KSP
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<LittleJoe_>
Shouldn't it at least get to the menu with 4GB of ram though?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
No
<LittleJoe_>
Oh...
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<LittleJoe_>
I'll give it more RAM then and see what happens.
<Bornholio>
can you pastebin your ckan load file
<Bornholio>
filebin...
<LittleJoe_>
Not at my PC at the moment unfortunately : /
<Bornholio>
do a File-->export CKAN Mods and save the file. k, when you get to it. ;)
<Bornholio>
oh did you end up deleteing your squad folder in gamedata?
<Bornholio>
Looks like it is missing 8-/
<LittleJoe_>
Hmmmmmmm
<LittleJoe_>
Is that a problem?
<Bornholio>
very much so, thats the core files from the game.
<LittleJoe_>
Well, that could be part of it...
<Bornholio>
thought i caught you before that... lol
<LittleJoe_>
Right after actually...
<Bornholio>
OK well use steam to restore them and then try again
<Bornholio>
also a good thing is to copy your whole ksp install then modify that seperatly
<Bornholio>
CKAN can manage multiple installs fine
<Bornholio>
not really is that the fake one? Think so Still pretty
<xShadowx>
uh its live o.o
<xShadowx>
so yes its fake, in hollywood
<Bornholio>
Yeah its exactly the same as a few weeks ago.
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<acc>
xShadowx: you can still stream a recorded vid :D
<Bornholio>
and say it is live
<Bornholio>
plus putting (Official) in your name makes you (official)
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<Saabstory88>
Pap: Where should the Titan I go, materialsScienceSatellite?
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<NathanKell>
Welp, yeah, that at least explains why I've spent two nights failing at spaceplanes
<NathanKell>
!tell leudaimon,soundnfury be careful with lifting reentries (or reentry generally). Heat is too strong atm so you may pop.
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell>
!tell soundnfury was (RAH's) Friday from Venus? Is that why?
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Saabstory88>
Looks like this has been a fun series
<NathanKell>
well, it's one way to find issues :D
<NathanKell>
Actually, that was how it started
<NathanKell>
to test the contract work :)
<Saabstory88>
At least all parties are equally disadvantaged
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<NathanKell>
Saabstory88: And equally forgiving, too, thankfully :)
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: nah, it's just because the name for Friday in the Romance languages comes from Venus (e.g. 'vendredi')
<Qboid>
soundnfury: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [14.06.2017 03:18:45]: "be careful with lifting reentries (or reentry generally). Heat is too strong atm so you may pop."
<Qboid>
soundnfury: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [14.06.2017 03:19:23]: "was (RAH's) Friday from Venus? Is that why?"
<NathanKell>
!tell leudaimon,soundnfury to be clear: it appears to be either that heat per se is too much or, more likely, a skin->int conduction issue. It's not a problem for steep reentries where there's not much time to conduct, but it makes lifitng reentries rather worse than they should be--making an X-15 parts spaceplane that worked earlier impossible, and popping a Mk1 on a lifting reentry that it used
<NathanKell>
to survive easily.
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell>
oh hey soundnfury o/
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: Ah I see. Yeah, they used that pantheon and us northerners got Thor and Woden.
<Saabstory88>
NathanKell is there a standard formatted list of real manufacturers?
<Saabstory88>
Like for Redstone, is it Chrysler, or Chrysler Corporation?
<Saabstory88>
or AMBA even?
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<Pap>
yes Saabstory88 Sattelite Era is correct for Titan I
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: I noticed when I reentered things the Ablator wasn't getting consumed at all.
<Qboid>
soundnfury: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [14.06.2017 03:28:39]: "to be clear: it appears to be either that heat per se is too much or, more likely, a skin->int conduction issue. It's not a problem for steep reentries where there's not much time to conduct, but it makes lifitng reentries rather worse than they should be--making an X-15 parts spaceplane that worked earlier impossible, and poppin
<Qboid>
g a Mk1 on a lifting reentry that it used"
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<Rokker>
xShadowx: are you a brit or not, i cant remember
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<egg|work|egg>
LittleJoe: have you tried regex's RSS Expansion subset with principia? did it work?
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<egg|work|egg>
LittleJoe: ah nevermind, you were replying to someone else
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<rsparkyc>
morning all
<riocrokite>
o/
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<Pap|Sleep>
o/
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<Borntosleep>
yawn
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<Theysen>
hello everybody
<Pap>
hi Theysen
<Theysen>
how ya doin
<Pap>
I am well, yourself?
<Pap>
If I changed Engine config names, that wouldn't break anything, right?
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<Theysen>
Pap? In like ehm what?
<Bornholio>
if it is in flight probably now, but saved ships might boggle.
<Bornholio>
s/now/no
<Qboid>
Bornholio meant to say: if it is in flight probably no, but saved ships might boggle.
<Theysen>
Don't change what the engine configs in the part's MM patch reference, that would be a pain to adapt in all existing configs. Whatever you change in the config itself should be ok
<Pap>
that is what I thought Theysen
<Pap>
I am cleanign up the N! Block Enging Global Configs as they have spaces in their MM, I hate all spaces with MM as it causes syntax errors
<Theysen>
spaces?
<Theysen>
like after some lines or what?
<Pap>
8x NK-43 was the name of the config
<Pap>
I simply changed it to 8x_NK-43
<Pap>
They are the only Engine Configs that have spaces in the middle of them
<Theysen>
anyways, just dont change what is behind engineType or so in the global config
<Theysen>
inside of the tile
<Pap>
Yep, I won't touch it
<Theysen>
file
<Theysen>
perfect
<Theysen>
the global configs are such a gift
<Pap>
Now, how do I set the Test Flight parameters for these engines?
<Pap>
I am sorry, don't answer that
<Pap>
I know how to set the parameters
<Pap>
I am asking, how much lower should I set the TF configs since there are 8 engines running as 1 config?
<Pap>
I have the TF data for the individual engines involved, but I want to increase the chance of failure with that many engines firing, or should I leave it the same as he individual engines they are modeling?
<Theysen>
N1 engines right? Make them fail all the time /s
<Pap>
lol
<Pap>
Here is what I propose, I will lower the initial reliability on all of them, but I will let them get to the same ending reliability as the individual engines
<Theysen>
sounds fair
<Bornholio>
fast enginering answer is Rel^sqrt(engines)
<Pap>
Bornholio: that looks legit, can you explain why, or is that require a lot of other knowledge for the learner to have?
<Bornholio>
cheap statistics, two engines say rel .9, then two might seem .81, however, chance both fail is included then, sqrt is cheap way of eliminating the multiple fails.
<Pap>
So it would make the actual failure rate of .86, that makes sense
<egg|work|egg>
rsparkyc: have you tried regex's principia-friendly subset of RSS expanded?
<rsparkyc>
no, i have not
<egg|work|egg>
rsparkyc: can you? :-p
<rsparkyc>
didn't even know that existed
<egg|work|egg>
[00:04] <regex> Principia approved RSS Expansion file, contains only the bodies specified in the Principia readme. Let me know if you use it and find issues. [00:04] <regex> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5zjxv7tyk3prhpn/RSSEx.zip?dl=0
<rsparkyc>
yeah, i'll take a look
<egg|work|egg>
rsparkyc: you'll need to make a new save (otherwise it will look for the new bodies in an old save and blow up), but it'd be nice to know if it wokrs
<egg|work|egg>
s/krs/rks/
<Qboid>
egg|work|egg meant to say: rsparkyc: you'll need to make a new save (otherwise it will look for the new bodies in an old save and blow up), but it'd be nice to know if it works
<Bornholio>
Pap would you like a proper formula? I'll drag out a failure analysis textbook if so?
<rsparkyc>
cool, i'll get back with you when i've had a chance to look it over
<Pap>
I don't think so Bornholio, I appreciate it though
<Pap>
Here is my issue with using clustered engines in RO with TF...I have 8 engines in a cluster, but TF only sees it as one. So I can increase the failure rate, but that would make the whole cluster fail instead of a single engine
<Bornholio>
TF has reduced thrust event?
<Pap>
As on Apollo 13, the center F-1 engine failed, but they still had enough delta-v to get to orbit with the remaining 4 engines
<Pap>
If an 8-engine N1 block was to have a single failure, would assume that the mission wouldn't automatically be a failure
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<Theysen>
Pap, which engine models do we have in RO which have those 8 engines as one part?
<Pap>
Or am I overthinking the whole thing, and if a player wants to use the convenience of a cluster, they risk having a failure of the whole thing?
<Theysen>
I remember the trusses from SXT, did we actually have whole blocks with the engines on them?
<Bornholio>
NK-15V in block B, or 43's
<Theysen>
Ah right
<Pap>
Theysen: according to the Engine Config, it is from Tantares and SXT
<Pap>
There is a config for the Block A, Block B, and Block V
<Theysen>
that's difficult to say, I wouldn't say that if one engine failed the whole block fails. Otherwise if one turbopump goes poof that would cause a chain reaction anyways
<Pap>
Obviously, things get crazier when we start talking about the Block A and the 30 engines
<Theysen>
I don't know designwise it was doomed to fail anyways, just make the whole block fail
<Pap>
^ truth
<Pap>
I think after writing all of this out, I am going to just go with the single engine failure rates. It is best for gameplay
<Pap>
Theysen: serious question...if Korolev doesn't die, do they get the N1 figured out?
<Bornholio>
yes.
<Theysen>
I don't think so, actually
<Pap>
Bornholio: is that to the Korolev quesiton?
<Bornholio>
smart guy, actually if the sov's had not killed so many good , pap both
<Theysen>
trying to handle *30* engines in a manned launch just on the booster stage is just not going to work out
<Bornholio>
tell ELON
<Pap>
Well, can't we all agree that the ITS will never happen?
<Theysen>
done.
<Bornholio>
hah
<Theysen>
and already did before lol :D
<Pap>
lol
<Theysen>
falcon is different
<Theysen>
it's 3 single boosters, not one big block of madness
<Theysen>
^falcon heavy that is
<Pap>
It is also an engine that has a ton of flight time on it already, with the increase of 50 years of materials science, computing power and manufacturing improvements
<Bornholio>
if they run the clusters i think the dynamics get worked out eventually, but at greater cost
<Theysen>
Red Dragon will happen I am sure, at least a boilerplate or robotic equipment onboard
<Theysen>
bringing back a nice Mars sand bag for Musk's garden
<Bornholio>
tasy mars sand yum
<Theysen>
should work to get chicks to your house, too
<Theysen>
wanna see my mars landscape?
<Bornholio>
wanna play with my rocks
<Theysen>
haha good topic. BRB though :)
<Bornholio>
Pap though you will keep end reliability the same as stock?
<Pap>
Bornholio: yes, here is what I did...
<Pap>
I took the (Original Rel - Rel^SQRT(8)) / 2
<Pap>
It was way too low the other way, so this gives a number that is better for playability
<Bornholio>
not sure how TF does rel. is the number failure chance (say 1%) or succes chance say (99%)
<Pap>
Success chance at each pass
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<Pap>
So, the NK-15V has a cycleReliability starting value of 0.87
<Bornholio>
confused by formula
<Bornholio>
Prob=Rel-(Rel-Rel^sqrt(N))/2
<Bornholio>
giving .87 individual and .7722 cluster?
<Pap>
yes
<Bornholio>
ok less konfused
<Pap>
:)
<Bornholio>
yeah thats probably a good tradeoff
<Pap>
But, now after doing all of that, I think I am going to have to scrap it
<Pap>
It is just too low
<Pap>
Actually, no it is not
<Pap>
I just compared it to the Vanguard engine and that is a 0.70 reliability
<Pap>
I think that is fair for a cluster of that size
<Bornholio>
33 engine clusters lol
<Pap>
It'll force the player to run some R&D if they REALLY want to use them
<Bornholio>
one weird thing about engine cluster reliabilty is that effectively per flight you test more engines
<Pap>
yes, that is true
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<Bornholio>
just remember the soviets made due. Far side of moon pictures and don't have good enough film? Use captured US film from an overflight. .smirk
<Pap>
!tell Agathorn I have a question about flightDataMultiplier in TF...If I set it to 8.0, are the engines gaining data at 8x the normal rate?
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<rsparkyc>
!tell egg|work|egg,regex looking at RSSEx, looks like there's some folder duplication under "RSSEx-Textures". There's a "temp" folder in there that seems to be a copy of it's parent folder
<Qboid>
rsparkyc: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<egg|work|egg>
rsparkyc: hm
<Qboid>
egg|work|egg: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [14.06.2017 14:14:16]: "looking at RSSEx, looks like there's some folder duplication under "RSSEx-Textures". There's a "temp" folder in there that seems to be a copy of it's parent folder"
<egg|work|egg>
rsparkyc: does it work though
<rsparkyc>
i don't know, not in a spot to try it yet, was just looking at what was in it for now
<egg|work|egg>
yeah the temp might be an artifact of regex's script :-p
<rsparkyc>
i'd be curious to see how many messages Qboid has that have yet to be delivered
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<egg|work|egg>
!wpn ferram4
* Qboid
gives ferram4 a sequence point
<Theysen>
rsparkyc,
<Theysen>
Just updated to version 0.53, for some reason the Procedural Avionics works only as booster, the other configuration don't show up.
<Theysen>
from the RP-0 fred
<Theysen>
don't expect any more useful information though. Logs is a rare pokemon on these forums these days
<rsparkyc>
Theysen, they're no longer free upgrades
<rsparkyc>
you'll need to use the proc avi gui
<rsparkyc>
do you see a gui button on the right click menu?
<Theysen>
i didn't report that issue
<Theysen>
as I said
<rsparkyc>
ahh, sorry
<rsparkyc>
thx, i'll take a look
<Pap>
I responded to that fellow
<Pap>
On a scale of 1-10, how bad is it that I am neglecting to upgrade my other mods to 1.3 becuase I don't care about stock anymore?
<waerloga>
depends on what 1.3 added vs 1.2.2
<waerloga>
they just advertised the increased localization though
<Bornholio>
working airfield, and science box fix, want them now!
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<Pap>
rsparkyc: how did you find out that little bug?
<Bornholio>
pap besides historical and scales of RSS what else do you have?
<rsparkyc>
Pap: because i was fixing something else at the same time, and loaded up a save where i didn't have that set
<rsparkyc>
and things weren't working :)
<Pap>
gotcha
<Pap>
Bornholio: I have Half and Quarter RSS, Historial Progression Tech Tree and Historical Progression Contracts
<Pap>
Bornholio: I also have a Contract Pack called Career Evolution that essentailly uses the same progression of contracts as RP-0, but for non-RO installs
<Pap>
That one is technically still Beta, but it works like a real release, I just never officially released it
<Bornholio>
ah, getting bugged to update any of them more?
<Pap>
actually, haven't been bugged to update any of them, it has been nice :)
<Bornholio>
good seeing mod authors getting bashed makes me mad. Especially the "Cant live without out it" people.
<waerloga>
anyway pap, to answer your actual question "0" becuase you shoudln't feel bad about not updating anything
<Pap>
Thanks!
<waerloga>
If you feel like putting in the work, and 1.3 offers stuff improvements to 1.2.2 then yeah you should probably update...but the first part is key
<Agathorn>
Pap: yes they will
<Qboid>
Agathorn: Pap left a message for you in #RO [14.06.2017 14:11:42]: "I have a question about flightDataMultiplier in TF...If I set it to 8.0, are the engines gaining data at 8x the normal rate?"
<Agathorn>
^
<Agathorn>
assuming you are making the raw TF configs rather than using RO's preparser.. if the latter I am not sure if it modifies the multiuplier or not
<Pap>
good morning Agathorn
<Agathorn>
:)
<Pap>
Ah, that is something I don't know
<Agathorn>
once upon a time I had a grand plan for handloing SSTU clusters. Wish I could remember what it was
<Agathorn>
I do recall I was going to write a custom TF module for them
<Pap>
Agathorn: I think it is possible to do something like this for SSTU (don't have the coding skills yet, or I would do it for you)...
<Pap>
Get the number of engines in the cluster, use the formula that bornholio linked earlier to set the reliability numbers based on cluster size, if a failure happens, subtract thrust by (1/# of engines) and for the flightDataMultiplier, use the engine numbers
<Agathorn>
but those are all workarounds
<Agathorn>
TF should just reconigze the individual engines
<Pap>
ohhhh
<Pap>
I see
<Agathorn>
Ideally a new TestFlight_Reliability module would be written that understands SSTU and can bind to its individual engines
<Theysen>
Pap, your Evolution mod is worth to be kept maintained
<Theysen>
because it's RP-0 basically for stock as you said. And RP-0 rocks lol
<Pap>
Theysen: I will eventually maintain all of them ;) it is just a matter of when
<Pap>
But I agree with you!
<Bornholio>
pap You might want to also reduce the TF FDM # to a formula similar to Reliability formula. say fdm=sqrt(N)
<Theysen>
I sincerely wish I could code and realize my ideas, but rip me
<Pap>
I as well Theysen, but I am learning, so I can understand what some code is at least doing now
<Pap>
Bornholio: that is a very good idea
<Pap>
Agathorn: the RO pre-parser that you mentioned, is that the CFG file in the Engine Configs folder that catches all the engines?
<Agathorn>
it is what allows the engine TF configs to be so compact and easy for most anyone to make.. the preparser takes those and fleshes them out into full configs
<Agathorn>
Take a loook at an engine in your MM cache and you can see the full TF configs..they are quite lengthy
<Agathorn>
something to bear in mind though if you are messing with clusters..right now it is treated as only 1 engine, but the pros and cons kind of balance out
<Agathorn>
for example if you put an 8x SSTU cluster on, you only gain data at a rate equal to 1 engine, but if you put 8 separate engines on you gain data at a rate equal to 8 engines, but the cluster is less likely to fail than the discrete engines
<Pap>
thanks Agathorn
<Pap>
Yes, that is something I have seen in my games as I like the SSTU models
<Agathorn>
so one side of the equation kind of balances against the other.. faster data with discrete engines, but more chance of failure as well.. so I guess what I am saying is if you go in and start changign this, try to keo it balanced
<Agathorn>
don't just mak SSTU clusters gain data faster because then they become more powerful than discrete engines
<Agathorn>
if you increase the data rate you need to increase the failure rate as well
<Pap>
I understand, thank you for the warning / information to back it up
<Pap>
Agathorn: it was actually all came about with the N1 clusters, that is what we were looking at doing, exactly what you are saying
<Bornholio>
one thing about discrete engines in a cluster is that a single failure is never catastrophic (taking out all engines) unless it casues mission failure
<Pap>
right Bornholio, and that is the issue with setting the cluster reliability so low
<Agathorn>
some of this can certainly be done in configs.. some can't.. like you could change the thrust reduction on a clustered engine to be lower, but you can't accomdate a theoretical multi engine out
<Agathorn>
also not sure how you can attach a config to different cluster sizes since they aren't discrete parts
<Agathorn>
which comes back to really needing to add SSTU support into the code
<Agathorn>
Even better would be a PR against SSTU that lets SSTU report a TF interop that indicates the number of engines
<Agathorn>
then you COULD target individual clusters
<Agathorn>
that would be a good first step and preobably pretry easy depending on how shadowmage is these days
<Pap>
right, if you go in knowing exactly how many engines are in the cluster, it can be done from a config
<Pap>
Agathorn: that all depends on his mood
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<Pap>
I created a PR for him that added a single line to ignore his tech tree modifications for RP-0 and he went on a paragraph rant about how it shouldn't be his responsibility
<Theysen>
and uhm, HOW did your PR hurt him? He didn't even have to do anything and the added RP0 doesn't kill the mod's functionality in any wa
<Pap>
I know Theysen, but that is shadowMage. He rage quits modding KSP at least once a month
<Theysen>
yeah, was just about to say maybe he was 5 minutes away from another breakdown
<Pap>
he makes a really nice damn Mod though
<Bornholio>
agree, very pretty
<Bornholio>
what controls the thrust oscillation i see with engines?
<Pap>
Woah, did you know that you can now color parts in SSTU?
<Theysen>
yeah it's really really good
* Theysen
wonders if he should go for a solid apogee kicker for the first GEO satellite without knowing the needed delta v from Brownsville exactly
* Theysen
is also too damn lazy to calculate it in beforehand
<Pap>
Theysen: launching from Brownsville for all launches?
<Theysen>
i played through from BV yes
<Theysen>
* playing through
<Pap>
It should be VERY similar to the Cape, shouldn't it?
<Pap>
the delta-v requiremnts I mean
<Theysen>
except way less normal burn at apo
<Theysen>
brownsville is at 13° or so iir
<Pap>
what is the latitude at brownsville?
<Pap>
oh, wow, didn't realize it was that low
<Theysen>
oh nah 25°
<Pap>
so, yes, very similar
<Pap>
only 3 degrees
* Theysen
is confused
<Theysen>
I confused the headings for a lunar launch to get into the same plane somehow and thought it was more south
<Theysen>
I'm limited by avionics anyways
<Bornholio>
Brownsvilel is once a day window (over water requirement) and gains not having to do a little dogleg from what i know.
<Theysen>
yeah moon really passes over you
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<egg|work|egg>
o/ regex
<egg|work|egg>
regex: have you had the time to test your rss expanded thing?
<regex>
I did, it failed horribly
<Qboid>
regex: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [14.06.2017 14:14:16]: "looking at RSSEx, looks like there's some folder duplication under "RSSEx-Textures". There's a "temp" folder in there that seems to be a copy of it's parent folder"
<egg|work|egg>
regex: ah, good to know
<regex>
rsparkyc, I thought I deleted that.
<egg|work|egg>
what failed?
<regex>
Principia, but I couldn't decipher the error message. Something about dictionary bounds but nothing about the expected value.
<egg|work|egg>
regex: you made a new save, right?
<egg|work|egg>
not loaded an existing one
<regex>
Ah, was that it?
<regex>
I'll try with a new save tonight.
<egg|work|egg>
if you load an existing one it *will* fail
<egg|work|egg>
probably with a crash
<regex>
The game loaded up fine, just bombed on save load, so that was probably it
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<egg|work|egg>
regex: well if it failed because your config was bad it would fail on save creation, so that doesn't tell us much
<egg|work|egg>
nothing ever fails on game load
<regex>
Awesome, well, then the only thing we know for sure is that I need a new save game
<egg|work|egg>
well I guess I'll try tonight then
<regex>
I'll try again tonight as well. Also, I'll fix the zip file so it doesn't ahve the dupes.
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<xShadowx>
Rokker: hell no, my country kicked them off our island :P
<Agathorn>
YOUR LEGO® ORDER
<Agathorn>
IS ON ITS WAY!
<Agathorn>
YAY!
<Agathorn>
Saturn V is comming!
<Agathorn>
Hope I can assemble it :)
<Agathorn>
Never done a big lego thingy before but this thing just looked too amazing to pass up
<Agathorn>
it was out of stock the day it went on sale
<regex>
no surprise on it being out of stock
<Agathorn>
It told me 30 days, but today is only the 14h
<Pap>
I need all of your opinoins on pricing and costs for the RL10 engine...
<Pap>
There are enough articles out there stating that the 2012 cost of an RL10 is $32 million per engine
<Agathorn>
They went on sale June 1st..I got up and hit the website at about 6:30am PST and it was already on "30 day backorder"
<Agathorn>
but 14 days and now it has shipped so not nearly that bad :)
<Pap>
That translates to 5213 in 1965 money, but we currently have it priced at $1200
<regex>
That's awesome. Enjoy.
<waerloga>
Agathorn: nice, they currently just have it on "wishlist"
<Pap>
Does anyone know why that would be the case, and if the cost should be increased?
<waerloga>
so not even ability to back order it
<Agathorn>
Pap sounds like it
<Agathorn>
are there no citations for the 1200 cost?
<Agathorn>
though bear in mind that the cost of $5213 isn't raw manufacurring costs
<Agathorn>
that would have R&D, and tooling sort of baked in given its a real world cost
<Pap>
It links to a dead link on astronautix for the TitanIIE Centaur cost
<regex>
Ah, game balancing
<Pap>
Agathorn: the artcile actually goes into the fact that it is so expensive in current day because it is still largely using manufacturing process from 1959 when it was designed
<Pap>
That means that it would seem the cost of the engine has actually increased over time (more than inflation can account for)
<Pap>
The 1200 cost we have currently, puts the cost of the engine in mdoern day at only 8.75M
<egg|zzz|egg>
!tell regex,rsparkyc just checked, it works
<Qboid>
egg|zzz|egg: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<regex>
egg|zzz|egg, great, thanks!
<Qboid>
regex: egg|zzz|egg left a message for you in #RO [14.06.2017 17:55:19]: "just checked, it works"
<egg|zzz|egg>
regex: will mail it to the principia+RSS-playing colleague tomorrow :-p
<regex>
Also, the zip file has been fixed to remove the duplicate folder.
<regex>
Sweet
<Pap>
Digging deeper, we are not as far off as I first thought. The additional engine configs bring the total cost of the newest RL10 up to 3300 which is closer, but still very low
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<Bornholio>
isn't it kinda hard to balance prices of US engines with massive corporate profit vs russian versions built with slave labor? Some of the US cost quotes NASA gets are fuck no quotes. I get those for things scientists want that are unreasonable.
<Probus>
That's for sure
<waerloga>
Bornholio: what's great is when you submit a "fuck no, I don't wanna do this" quote and they accept
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<xShadowx>
Agathorn: skip the lego, get 3d printer :P
<Qboid>
rsparkyc: egg|zzz|egg left a message for you in #RO [14.06.2017 17:55:19]: "just checked, it works"
<rsparkyc>
deadly reentry was causing that, right?
<rsparkyc>
i think there's a patch?
<rsparkyc>
egg*: great
<Bornholio>
EVA burning? 7.5.0 needs a patch
<rsparkyc>
cool
<Bornholio>
or use 7.6.0
<Bornholio>
not sure if either are the temp issue NK was seeing last night
<Bornholio>
http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/50296-122-deadly-reentry-v760-june-9-2017-the-ariel-edition-pre-release/&page=212#comment-3059970 for the 7.5.0 patch
<NathanKell|AWAY>
No my issue is different and affects only slow reentries over time
<Qboid>
NathanKell|AWAY: leudaimon left a message for you in #RO [09.06.2017 23:05:21]: "I saw your stream during my lunchtime and felt really sorry for your failure. Hope you better luck in the first crewed orbit! It's very likely you'll beat me by far... I think picking the R&D building upgrade will be my ruin"
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Wow that's an old tell
<NathanKell|AWAY>
\o/
<HypergolicSkunk>
does anyone else have a X-405 (XLR-50 GE-2) engine with only about 1 kN? it weighs almost 200kg, and should have 123.8 kN SLT
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<Theysen>
oh my FASA Agena with the reflections in LEO is 10/10
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<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn NathanKell|AWAY
* Qboid
gives NathanKell|AWAY a dysprosium diagram with a cathedral attachment
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<NathanKell|AWAY>
HypergolicSkunk that's the verniers
<NathanKell|AWAY>
There are two engines on the part
<HypergolicSkunk>
ah
<HypergolicSkunk>
thanks :)
<NathanKell|AWAY>
:)
<szyzyg1>
Hopefully by the time I do my Thor/Delta history I can build the models all in KSP?RO
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<Starwaster>
hmmmm. so pad aborts only work if the craft is still pointing at sky. ok got it.
<waerloga>
need a smarter abort system :P
<riocrokite>
were verniers used to precise orbit maneouvers?
<riocrokite>
'for
<riocrokite>
erm disregard
<Starwaster>
waerloga well to be honest I underestimated the effect of my rocket doing pendulum swings in 360 degree arcs over the launch pad
<waerloga>
yeah, always fun tweaking the engine that pushes it laterally out of the way
<waerloga>
what I typically do is have one additional sepatron on one side to provide that lateral thrust
<waerloga>
or adjust timings
<waerloga>
not sure if I'm going to do a full on kRPC/kOS run this time
<waerloga>
but if I do...then I'll end up writing one that will attempt to right itself and such
<Starwaster>
waerloga what's actually happening is that something seems to have welded my rocket to the pad. It's literally dangling in mid air. What was spinning it in 360 arcs were the 5 giant F1 engines at the bottom. (it's a Saturn-a-like)
<waerloga>
aah
<waerloga>
fun sticky pad bugs
<Starwaster>
still havent figured out WHICH part is actually 'welded'
<Starwaster>
I thought for sure it was the engines, right? in contact with the ground?
<Starwaster>
but it's not... it's something higher up...
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<Starwaster>
wow. Ok I decided to see if quicksaving/reloading would unstick it... and it seemed to work, I lift off... but I'm stuck at 11.5 m/s. Just as though I had throttle limiters engaged or something
<waerloga>
odd
<Starwaster>
ah... this could explain it. No rigid bodies. Nothing seems to have them
<Starwaster>
rocket's can apply force if there's nothing to perform the physics on
<Starwaster>
CANT
<rsparkyc>
!tell NathanKell* whenever you get a chance, there was a question about maintaining the top RP-0 post on the forums. I added you to the conversation
<Qboid>
rsparkyc: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Starwaster>
CAN NOT.... (not can)
<Bornholio>
starwaster tweakscale parts that go negative mass do that
<Starwaster>
no tweakscale
<Bornholio>
sounds exactly like the tweakscale problem. I had universal storage parts do that once though
<regex>
Considering giving it a try but I see a problem with difficulty involving building upgrades. Because if your budget allows for building upgrades it could be unbalanced for launching.
<regex>
OTOH, if the budget is yearly or quarterly that might be doable.
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<riocrokite>
would be nice to add expenditures for that mod
<riocrokite>
i.e. you could maintain/close facilities to produce specific parts so that would add to expenditures / fixed costs
<riocrokite>
with appropriate lead times ofc
<regex>
yeah
<regex>
I don't know if I'm going to bother though, balancing a career mode game isn't really on my list of fun things to do.
<Starwaster>
bornholio: it's a Porkjet revamp part. I should have remembered that I had this part glitch out on me once before
<Bornholio>
ah, which one
<Starwaster>
the 909
<Starwaster>
I think it's because of some RF configs I wrote up for it and because it has propellant tanks built into the engine...
<Bornholio>
really should put up some "Known Issue" somewhere for troublehooting that effect.
<Bornholio>
I spent a long time not knowing what was really going on.
<Bornholio>
starwaster did you put some pics of the Duna mission up?
<Starwaster>
no
<Starwaster>
I did pass your link of your Mars mission to Tara at NASA though because she expressed interest in what we were doing with them in the game
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<Bornholio>
cool
<Bornholio>
I was looking at Roverdudes inflatables to see if they couold be repurposed for a inflation ring
<Agathorn>
why do SI units use negative exponents to indicate the base unit? Or is that question itself even naive? For example, I don't understand why it is "m*s^-2" versus "m/s^2" when it is "Meters per second squared"
<Agathorn>
or why say frequency is s^-1
<Agathorn>
isn't s^-1 == s?
<Agathorn>
or maybe it isn't..now i'm even more confused lol
<Bornholio>
no, its 1/s
<Agathorn>
Is this statement True or False? 1 Newton = 1 Kilogram * 1 Meter * 1 Second * 1 Second
<Agathorn>
In more reading I guess negative expoents is divding
<lamont>
yeah it is
<Agathorn>
so I have had an incorrect fundmanetal understanding of these equations
<lamont>
kg m / s / s
<lamont>
F = m a
<lamont>
N = (kg) ( m / s / s )
<Agathorn>
so yeah an incorrect understanding of the fundamentals :D
<Agathorn>
"Meters per second squared" for some reason I always thougt "meters per second" was a multiply buit in hindsight I totally see it no
<Agathorn>
now*
<lamont>
i think the difference between m/s^2 and m s^-2 is just typographical
<lamont>
some authors prefer one or the other
<Agathorn>
I found this "A solidus (i.e., slash), horizontal line, or negative exponent is used to signify the division of units. The solidus must not be repeated on the same line unless parentheses are used."
<lamont>
probably for ones with mutiple units with negative exponents
<Agathorn>
so I guess it is to avoid having to use multiple parens
<lamont>
yeah
<Agathorn>
IE m/s/s would have to be "(m/s(/s))" which is ugly
<Agathorn>
anyway it makes soem sense to me now :)
* Agathorn
hates math
<Agathorn>
so this wopuld be correct:
<Agathorn>
public static float Newton = 1.0f * Kilogram * Meter / Second / Second;
<lamont>
kg / (m^2 s ) vs kg m^-2 s^-1
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<lamont>
yeah
<Agathorn>
thanks :)
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<Agathorn>
btw I just want to say how odd it is that Kilogram is the BASE unit of mass :)
<Bornholio>
ok what is confusing you is expression in terms ofbase vs other units in SI
<Agathorn>
seems like the classic "one of these it not like the other"
<Agathorn>
seems to me Grams should be the base unit lol
<lamont>
but that’s centimeter gram second
<lamont>
1.6 kilio-kilograms
<Agathorn>
oh wait meters / second / second is actually wrong -- it should actually be( Kilometer * Meter / (Second * Second)) ?
<Pap>
ELI5: What is a radian?
<Agathorn>
so just to hammer it home... s^-1 == 1/s
<Agathorn>
yes?
<Bornholio>
yes or hertz
<lamont>
kg * m / s / s = kg * m / ( s * s )
<Agathorn>
(god I wish ascii coudl do exponents)
<Agathorn>
lamont: really?
<lamont>
reals
<lamont>
4 / 2 / 2 = 1
<Agathorn>
wow doesn't look like it.. i'll have to solve it out to make my brain see it
<lamont>
4 / (2 * 2 ) = 1
<lamont>
magic
<Agathorn>
most of math is :D
<Agathorn>
to me anyway
<gazpachian>
pap: circumference of a circle is 2pi*r, with me thus far
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<lamont>
you can also see that by converting to mulitplying by negative exponents
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<Agathorn>
anyway got to run back to work
<Agathorn>
thanks!
<lamont>
m / s / s = m * s^-1 * s^ -1
<gazpachian>
I mean, explaining even basic trig or geometry to an actual 5yo may be hard
<lamont>
and x^n * x^m = x^(n + m)
<lamont>
so s^-1 * s^-1 = s^-2
<lamont>
m * s ^-2 = m/(s^2)
<Pap>
lk;';l//;
<Pap>
=\
<Pap>
=]
<Pap>
?+
<gazpachian>
anyways, the idea is to subdivide the circle into 2pi "chunks", and then you get some neat effects once you start taking trigonometric derivatives. So the ELIabitmorethan5 version: a radian is 360/2pi degrees
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<gazpachian>
I explain stuff so terribly that people rage quit. :D
<Bornholio>
gah i rage quit also>
<Theysen>
lol gazpachian
<Theysen>
pap.exe refused to work
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<Pap>
apologize, daughter took the keyboard
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<Bornholio>
I've seen what pap is doing for rp-0 his daughter is saving him
<Bornholio>
any mod have curved panels for structural?
<gazpachian>
haven't been following the chat closely so I apologize if someone already linked it, but saw this in the lego subreddit yesterday (no it's not just the Saturn V): http://i.imgur.com/RvxNQJA.png
<gazpachian>
bornholio, what kind? A few mods have strongback truss segments like you'd see on NASA Constellation craft, those are round structural parts?
<Bornholio>
i want quarter panels that are curved to fit around a lander
<lamont>
pap: walk from the center of a circle due east, so that you walk the unit of radius (e.g. 1km), then turn and walk around the circumference the same distance along the curve (1km) and the angle you make with east is one radian
<lamont>
and sin x is approximately equal to x for small values of x around zero when you’re dealing with radians because the slope of sin x in radians is 1
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<regex>
interesting, KCT can be configured to allow you to earn science for building a vessel
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<Bornholio>
regex have you seen the part storage component also? lets you re-use and recover parts
<regex>
I've seen that but have no reason to use it
<Probus>
The mod Scrap Yard was born out of that Bornholio
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<LittleJoe>
What did the update to Rp-0 fix?
<rsparkyc>
procedural avionics
<rsparkyc>
it's in the release notes
<LittleJoe>
oh, let's see if I can launch the game today :)
<LittleJoe>
and I added the logs from the latest attempt
<LittleJoe>
Here are my PC specs: i5 6600k, Asus 980 ROG Matrix Platinum 16GB DDR4 RAM, HD's etc etc...
<LittleJoe>
Win10
<LittleJoe>
Any help would be appreciated : ) I know some people were suggesting removing some mods/parts of mods to try and diagnose the sources of the problem
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<rsparkyc>
i see you're running AJE 2.8.0.0
<rsparkyc>
i'm on 2.7.3.0
<LittleJoe>
Both are supposedly compatible with 1.2.2
<rsparkyc>
though i think that's still for 1.2.2
<rsparkyc>
yeah
<rsparkyc>
just looking for differences
<LittleJoe>
;)
<LittleJoe>
only mod I believe I have installed that says it only works on 1.3 is Vens Stock part revamp
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<rsparkyc>
LittleJoe, i see ModuleENginesRF throwing exceptions before the crash
<rsparkyc>
but i don't know if that's it
<LittleJoe>
: /
<LittleJoe>
does the error in that picture mean anything?
<rsparkyc>
though I don't see exceptions like that in my logs
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<rsparkyc>
that means that there's a MM config issue
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<rsparkyc>
let me see if i can find it
<LittleJoe>
^^^^^^ That's the cause of all my problems>
<LittleJoe>
?
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<rsparkyc>
[ModuleManager] Error - Cannot parse variable search when replacing (%) key mass = #$@PART[GooExperiment]/mass$
<rsparkyc>
that's in GameData/RP-0/PartHacks.cfg
<LittleJoe>
:O
<LittleJoe>
is that a problem?
<rsparkyc>
yes, but i don't know what you're missing for that not to work
<LittleJoe>
: /
<LittleJoe>
I could try reinstalling everything again
<LittleJoe>
oh
<LittleJoe>
duh
<LittleJoe>
I'm missing the squar folder in gamedata :P
<LittleJoe>
squad*
<rsparkyc>
oh, yeah, that's important
<soundnfury>
:O
<LittleJoe>
was told that yesturday...
<xShadowx>
nah.......how could that be the reason
<xShadowx>
:)
<rsparkyc>
lol
<LittleJoe>
lol
<soundnfury>
who needs this stock crap :P
<LittleJoe>
well, it didn't work before I deleted it for the record...
* xShadowx
accually doesnt have a squad folder in his install
<rsparkyc>
well you'll prob get a different error then :)
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<LittleJoe>
Verifying game files now :)
<LittleJoe>
let's see what error comes up after that...
<TonyC>
hi everyone
<LittleJoe>
"1861 files failed to validate and will be reacquired:
<TonyC>
is there anyone playing Aurora here ?
<LittleJoe>
hi
<LittleJoe>
not me
<LittleJoe>
omg the squad folder is 200MB...
<LittleJoe>
xD
<rsparkyc>
well, that does have like all the parts for the stock game :)
<LittleJoe>
'.'
<LittleJoe>
D:
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<LittleJoe>
heyo Pap
<LittleJoe>
I shouldn't have to reinstall RP-0 if I just varified my files through steam right?
<Pap>
LittleJoe: take a picture of your GameData folder
<LittleJoe>
one sec, I'm attempting a launch :D
<LittleJoe>
welp, I didn't get the same error, but it did crash
<LittleJoe>
after all the mod manager stuff
<LittleJoe>
one sec I'll update the filebin with the relavent info and a pic of my gamedata folder
<LittleJoe>
yup everything in here is from the last crash
<Pap1723>
The crash.dmp file is saying that the Exception Information: The thread tried to read from or write to a virtual address for which it does not have the appropriate access
<Pap1723>
Does that have to do with virtual memory?
<LittleJoe>
I have 10GB free : /
<Pap1723>
LittleJoe: What size RSS tectures do you have?
<LittleJoe>
the 4*** one
<LittleJoe>
middle of the road
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<LittleJoe>
I'll do another launch and see if my RAM maxes out
<rsparkyc>
still see this in the logs: Invalid float value! Field multFlow, value false on object of type AJE.ModuleEnginesAJEPropeller
<rsparkyc>
which seems weird
<LittleJoe>
don't think that's it though, but doesn't hurt to check
<LittleJoe>
I believe I sued the RSS textures before
<rsparkyc>
at least you have no MM config errors this time
<LittleJoe>
\o/
<rsparkyc>
just for fun, you could take AJE out
<rsparkyc>
AJE is what's running when you crash
<rsparkyc>
from what the logs tell me
<rsparkyc>
maybe try downgrading to 2.7.3?
<LittleJoe>
hmmm, would removing it be a valid test?
<rsparkyc>
downgrading to 2.7.3 would be a better test
<rsparkyc>
i'll also try upgrading later and see what happens
<LittleJoe>
So it has AJE and SolverEgnines folders in it, both of those get replaced right? and it has version 2.7.5 of MM, whereas I have 1.7.6 already
<LittleJoe>
I'm guessing I just keep 1.7.6
<rsparkyc>
2.7.6
<Pap1723>
crazy question...When was the last time you successfully launched KSP without RO?
<rsparkyc>
yeah, that should be fine
<rsparkyc>
Pap1723, i've actually done it
<LittleJoe>
mmmmm awhile ago
<rsparkyc>
that's how i test procedural avionics
<LittleJoe>
I've been waiting for RP-0 for 1.2.2 for like two months :P
<Pap1723>
I'm sorry, I was asking LittleJoe if his KSP stock instlal is working
<LittleJoe>
I haven't actually launched it stock in like 3 months....
<Pap1723>
Start there LittleJoe
<LittleJoe>
that might be a good test if this doesn't work...
<Pap1723>
Get rid of everything and launch it clean
<LittleJoe>
After I try the older version of AJE : )
<LittleJoe>
ok, launch with 2.7.3 of AJE
<rsparkyc>
running out, catch you guys later
<LittleJoe>
;) Thanks for your help!
<rsparkyc>
no prob
<LittleJoe>
Now it's just me and Pap O.O
<rsparkyc>
actually, let me see if ksp loads with 2.8.0
<rsparkyc>
forgot i kicked that off
<Bornholio>
assert claim.[All of you are sexy beasts]
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<rsparkyc>
yep, it loads
<rsparkyc>
so it's not that
<rsparkyc>
ok, later
<LittleJoe>
later ;)
<LittleJoe>
crashed again....
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<LittleJoe>
going all stock now
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<LittleJoe>
stock worked fine
<LittleJoe>
Pap1723: Should I add the mods one by one?
<LittleJoe>
or add them all then remove them one by one...
<LittleJoe>
or call it a day and try again tomorow :P
<xShadowx>
add RO required stuff only, test, toss in RP-0, test, add other stuff you want by size, big mods first, test after a couple, little mods last as they usually have the breaking issues
<LittleJoe>
actually the most recent 4 tries were with RP-0 required stuff only : /