<Rokker> ferram4: how do you feel about oblique wings
<ferram4> They blaspheme against symmetry
<Rokker> ferram4: symmetry is overrated
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<NathanKell> !tell acharles* sorry, had to AFK. I still don't know what you mean is wrong. What does 'don't get picked up' mean?
<Qboid> NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell> Rokker, ferram4, you will enjoy: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40012.0;all
<NathanKell> ferram4: Especially the one that does Delta II solids one better: *3* sets.
<NathanKell> Hypergolic_Skunk: you around?
<Hypergolic_Skunk> yep!
<NathanKell> you use Real KSC?
<Hypergolic_Skunk> yep!
<NathanKell> Can haz?
<Hypergolic_Skunk> this one doesn't work for you? http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/118340-12x-real-ksc-in-ksp-matthew-aint-got-nothing-to-put-me-down/&page=53
<Hypergolic_Skunk> err, page 1, obviously
<Hypergolic_Skunk> not sure if Kerbal Konstructs is included, which you'll definitely need
<NathanKell> Yeah, last I knew KK had issues
<NathanKell> including w/ KSC Switcher
<NathanKell> so I wasn't sure what hoops you had to jump through
<Rokker> NathanKell: i decided to time how long it takes me to load my RO loadout
<Hypergolic_Skunk> it does a nice job of transforming the KSC area, not sure about anything else on the planet. but you can always add stuff manually
<Rokker> NathanKell: im at 8:30 and still counting
<Hypergolic_Skunk> Rokker: ouch..
<NathanKell> Hypergolic_Skunk: The warning is worring.
<NathanKell> worrying*
<Rokker> NathanKell: so
<Rokker> NathanKell: the LR87 LH2 upper isnt unreasonable
<Hypergolic_Skunk> NathanKell: you mean on the first page? I think that's not up to date
<NathanKell> ok
<Hypergolic_Skunk> but... in combination with KSC Switcher, it indeed acts weird sometimes
<NathanKell> Hypergolic_Skunk: WHich version of KK do I get?
<Hypergolic_Skunk> let me check
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<NathanKell> o/ acharles
<Hypergolic_Skunk> NathanKell: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/151818-12x-13-kerbal-konstructs-110-10062017/
<NathanKell> acharles: left you a tell
<acharles> ah
<Qboid> acharles: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [24.07.2017 00:15:48]: "sorry, had to AFK. I still don't know what you mean is wrong. What does 'don't get picked up' mean?"
<NathanKell> Hypergolic_Skunk: Yeah, and there's a bunch of versions there :P
<NathanKell> What is the version number of what you have
<acharles> NathanKell: Ah. rclick in the VAB doesn’t allow research and development
<NathanKell> acharles: Yes, because that comes from TF and as you said there's no TF config.
<NathanKell> I'm confused what that has to do with the tree
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<acharles> Oh… there’s 3 engines.
<acharles> blok bvgd, a and vernier
<Hypergolic_Skunk> NathanKell: I think I use 1.1.0
<acharles> I think bvgd and a have TF configs, but they don’t work.
<NathanKell> Hypergolic_Skunk: isn't that for 1.3?
<acharles> I don’t think the vernier has configs, but I’m not entirely sure
<NathanKell> Spacedock claimed itw as for 1.3
<Rokker> NathanKell: 403 seconds sounds much more reasonable
<Hypergolic_Skunk> NathanKell: the thread title seems to suggest it works for both equally. at least that's how I interpreted - and used - it :P
<NathanKell> Rokker: Yeah, nautix had 405 IIRC
<NathanKell> Hypergolic_Skunk: Can you just zip yours then?
<NathanKell> just in case
<Hypergolic_Skunk> will do
<NathanKell> thanks
<Hypergolic_Skunk> https://www.dropbox.com/s/xnz9s6y8pwjxcio/Kerbal-Konstructs-1.1.0.zip?dl=1 - I think it's exactly the same. the zip-file says version 1.1.9.3
<acharles> NathanKell: Does that make more sense? Given that there are 3 engines, some with configs and some without, but none of them seem to work as they should?
<NathanKell> What do you mean by the TF configs not working?
<acharles> rclick doesn’t allow R&D, they don’t show up in the list of modules when you rclick on the part selection interface
<NathanKell> then they don't have configs...?
<NathanKell> Err, they don't have *working* configs :]
<Rokker> Hypergolic_Skunk: good lord
<acharles> correct
<Rokker> Hypergolic_Skunk: 20 minutes 30 seconds
<acharles> I suspect the verniers never had TF configs, since whether they fail or not probably doesn’t matter much?
<NathanKell> Hypergolic_Skunk: Thanks
<Hypergolic_Skunk> Rokker: are you playing on an AMD Athlon XP with a GeForce MX440?
<NathanKell> acharles: Yeah
<NathanKell> ugh the RealKSC stuff isn't dds
<Hypergolic_Skunk> dds? that's a texture format, right?
<NathanKell> yes
<NathanKell> KSP has to convert them all to dds during load
<NathanKell> so might as well do it first
<Hypergolic_Skunk> I am not sure how active the makers of KK or Real KSC still are, though
<acharles> NathanKell: I did notice a typo in the vernier config, but I don’t think it mattered.
<Bornholio> ive nver had great luck with MJ doing launch to plane, but dang it went perfect using peg+LtP
<NathanKell> LtP?
<NathanKell> ah
<NathanKell> nm
<Pap|OutOfTown> o/
<Qboid> Pap|OutOfTown: NathanKell|AWAY left a message for you in #RO [22.07.2017 08:11:34]: "I'm a bit confused by space stations. The old tree had three levels of station parts--the early, weak stuff (Station Science module and the 3m modules), the 4m stuff, and the Skylab/Salyut era big stuff. The new tree seems to combine the first two together. IMO there should be an earlier space station node, accessible from a
<Qboid> dvanced capsules (not mature capsules), with the 3m parts only,"
<Qboid> Pap|OutOfTown: gazpachian left a message for you in #RO [22.07.2017 12:04:44]: "as before, to allow the choice of lunar-first or station-first. Maybe it should require the lunar matsci node, maybe not, dunno, but IMO it should not require mature capsules. The 4m stuff should go in the node that is placed as it is now, and then the skylab era stuff can go in the next node."
<Qboid> Pap|OutOfTown: gazpachian left a message for you in #RO [22.07.2017 12:05:10]: "That was also NK, but his message got cut off."
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<Pap> o/
<Hypergolic_Skunk> \o
<NathanKell> Yo!
<Pap> Some issues with the stations parts, huh?
<NathanKell> Ya, the Early Stations node disappeared
<NathanKell> I didn't realize til now
<Pap> woah, that is a problem, let me look at it
<NathanKell> Yeah, looks like the 3m and 4m parts got combined into a new stations node that branches from mature capsules
<NathanKell> because IRL there wasn't a station flown in the mid-late 60s
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<Rokker> NathanKell: thats what nasa wants you to think\
<Pap> Oh, so there needs to be a node available that requires the SecondGen Capsules and unlocks at the same time as Apollo?
<NathanKell> IMO yes, with the 3m parts
<NathanKell> to represent had they gone for stations rather than Moon
<NathanKell> Hypergolic_Skunk: Hmm, KK didn't seem to work right for me :(
<Hypergolic_Skunk> NathanKell: are you streaming?
<NathanKell> no
<NathanKell> Looked like everything was buried
<NathanKell> Should I play without KSC Switcher?
<Hypergolic_Skunk> are you in Space Center view? or in flight?
<NathanKell> SC
<Hypergolic_Skunk> go start a simulation, or launch something. might only appear then.
<Hypergolic_Skunk> it took a couple of KSP starts for me for the assets to appear in SC view
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<NathanKell> ok
<Dasm> !tell Pap Give me a shout when you're around
<Qboid> Dasm: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Rokker> NathanKell: um
<Rokker> NathanKell: i dont think global warming was this bad in 1951
<Hypergolic_Skunk> wow, switching to scatterer version 0.300 has really improved the framerate oO
<Pap> NathanKell: So basically, we want to give the player the ability to do a MOL style mission or an Apollo style missino at the same time? No reason to force them to go historical routes?
<Qboid> Pap: Dasm left a message for you in #RO [24.07.2017 00:54:26]: "Give me a shout when you're around"
<Pap> o/ Dasm
<Dasm> Pap: Have you looked at the forums since you've been back?
<NathanKell> Hypergolic_Skunk: Can you take a screenshot from ~30km up?
<Pap> Dasm: I have not, what'sup?
<NathanKell> Cuz I think something is still screwy for me
<Dasm> Pap: At your leisure- I've ran into a problem with Career Evolution pack
<Hypergolic_Skunk> NathanKell: not sure if this is 30km :p http://i.imgur.com/cjtwbZb.png
<Hypergolic_Skunk> the two runways 90 degrees to the stock runway I added manually
<NathanKell> Hypergolic_Skunk: is the SC complex supposed to be rather south of eveyrthing?
<NathanKell> um, gtg
<NathanKell> back later
<NathanKell> this is what I got
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<Hypergolic_Skunk> looking very good!
<Bornholio> damn you agathorn there will be no sample return!
<Hypergolic_Skunk> :D
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<Rokker> stratochief: yo
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<NathanKell> o/
<NathanKell> Hypergolic_Skunk: So, that was what it was supposed to look like?
<NathanKell> Hypergolic_Skunk: But isn't the main terrain interfering with the RealKSC terrain?
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<NathanKell> o/ blowfish
<blowfish> hey
<Qboid> blowfish: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [23.07.2017 20:29:42]: "for the engine issue, I have the following suggestions that should bandaid it if it's our fault."
<Qboid> blowfish: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [23.07.2017 20:30:16]: "1. On line 166 of SolverRF, change `chamberTemp = Math.Max(partTemperature, chamberTemp * declinePow);` to `chamberTemp = Math.Max(Math.Min(1000d, partTemperature), chamberTemp * declinePow);`"
<Qboid> blowfish: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [23.07.2017 20:30:59]: "2. In ModuleEnginesRF, on line 495, change it to just `heatProduction = 0f`"
<Pap> NathanKell: I want to make this fix for the stations, are you streaming tonight>
<Pap> ?
<NathanKell> Yes, but not for a bit. Tidying up my Titan changes for a push
<NathanKell> And then watching a movie with Michelle
<Pap> ok, good, let me work on this
<NathanKell> Thanks! Was just about to ask if there was anything I could help with, with it :)
<Pap> I am going to check the parts now, then I might want your opinion on which to move earlier
<NathanKell> kk!
<blowfish> I'll see if I can play around a bit and try to reproduce the exploding engine thing in my test setup, it doesn't have DRE so maybe easier to isolate
<Bornholio> pap i made an issue to accumulate little fixes i notice, also added a bit more to the https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tEm2aR1fSOVhjBjkgt6mrYLYC20c-FzCKK3pqW9N2hU/edit#gid=0 science lists, going to check and add FASA stuff next
<blowfish> unless you confirmed that it was RF
<NathanKell> blowfish: It's possible it's *from* DRE tho :]
<NathanKell> so if you can't, that narrows it down
<blowfish> yeah
<NathanKell> blowfish: Sorry I'm not up for more, RealJob (tm) is burning me out a bit atm
<blowfish> did you notice anything consistent about when it exploded? Maybe how much fuel was left in the tanks?
<Bornholio> are you troubleshooting explody tanks?
<blowfish> yeah
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<Bornholio> have any changes you want tested, i have saves i can duplicate it on. Its just any reasonably long time and cryo fuel. goes boom, may destroy connected parts, if ignore heat is on you can get tank temps in multiple thousand k
<Bornholio> this post is some troubleshooting i did with starwaster, he concluded the fix belonged in RF http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/50296-122-deadly-reentry-v760-june-9-2017-the-ariel-edition/&page=213#comment-3084041
<blowfish> uhh, in NK's case weren't the engines exploding?
<NathanKell> yes
<Bornholio> ok ignore me then :)
<blowfish> ah, I didn't read your first message carefully
<blowfish> not sure about explodey tanks
<acharles> NathanKell: I just checked, the verniers do have a test flight config, but test flight in game doesn’t work for them (no R&D in the rclick menu)
<Pap> acharles: While I am fixing tech tree issues, what are the verniers that are missing from the tree?
<NathanKell> I thought we established they weren't missing
<acharles> rn_r7_vernier_engine_v_fg is in the right node
<NathanKell> what's at issue is the TF configs don't work
<acharles> All of the parts unlock in the right node
<Pap> Ah, ok, sorry, I only caught parts of backchat
<acharles> The engine configs don’t seem to work
<acharles> I’m testing a change right now
<NathanKell> The engine configs don't work? That is, they don't produce thrust?
<NathanKell> Or the TF configs don't work?
<acharles> I haven’t gotten far enough in the tree to know
<acharles> And I just found another typo in the vernier configuration
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<Pap> NathanKell: did you have any complaints, or notice anything strange with the SSTU engines this weekend?
<NathanKell> Aw crap, I forgot to check 'em :]
<NathanKell> Will do so tonight
<NathanKell> I mostly designed NK-15 stuff yesterday and flew the LSR mission (On RD-253s)
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<NathanKell> and then today has been Titans
<xShadowx> theres only so many kerbal hours in a day!
* xShadowx finally got to play ksp for first time in a month
<blowfish> xShadowx: after batch recompiling 400 mods I assume?
<xShadowx> no o.o
<xShadowx> that was like.......a year ago at 1.2.2
<github> [RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7LZy
<github> RealismOverhaul/master 4a7aa5e NathanKell: Overhaul LR87 and LR91 configs, support SHIP versions (WIP).
<github> [RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7LZS
<github> RP-0/master 6f90356 NathanKell: LR87/91 updates
<Pap> NathanKell: I am getting ready to create the tree, did you add a new engine config?
<NathanKell> The LR87-LH2 configs weren't placed
<NathanKell> Pap: The pushed update fixes that, but will have to go in the xls
<Pap> I am adding them now
<Pap> The LR87LH2 are a fun new config!
<NathanKell> Pap: Also I changed the name from 2XLR87 to LR87
<NathanKell> and singled everything
<NathanKell> so we can support single-chamber LR87s
<NathanKell> The LR87LH2 is indeed most interesting :)
<blowfish> the sustainer and vacuum LR87LH2 configs are specualtive right?
<NathanKell> Yes, albeit simmed from real data
<NathanKell> The only mostly-real one is the TitanC one
<Pap> So this will break the FASA and BDB LR87 until they are re-configged, correct?
<NathanKell> In reality I am fairly sure that we are underspec'ing the upgrades.
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<NathanKell> Pap: False :)
<NathanKell> Would I do that?
<NathanKell> (spoiler: I would, but not intentionally >.> )
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<Pap> Ah, you went through and fixed all of them, that is waht happens when I don't make it to the bottom of the Commit before commenting
<NathanKell> :D
<NathanKell> The power of find-in-files
<Pap> I love Notepad++ for that feature alone (I am sure others have it, but I have never been tempted to look at other options)
<Bornholio> I just got GPS sat contract available and now i whimper and go to bed
<Pap> NathanKell: you have a couple of zCONFIG entries for the LR87 file, was that intentional as a placeholder?
<NathanKell> I didn't want to foist speculative engines on people
<NathanKell> They're not even speculative upgrades of real engines, they're "what if Titan didn't go hypergolic"
<Pap> So if people want them, they remove the z?
<NathanKell> yeah
<Pap> sounds good
<NathanKell> really I shoulda done them in separate cfg but (GRR Sarbian) you can't patch patches
<NathanKell> although that way madness lies
<Pap> I do not see where you removed the LH2-TitanC config from the LR87, was that intentional as well?
<NathanKell> Yeah, don't want to break craft
<NathanKell> only the SHIP 87 has a separate part for it anyway
<Pap> That's what I thought, ok, I wanted to make sure I was clear for the configs
<NathanKell> oh crap
<github> [RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7Lnn
<github> RealismOverhaul/master 918bf6e NathanKell: Forgot to halve thrust, thanks Pap
<NathanKell> People would have had a very OP LR87-LH2 :P
<Pap> What years do you want for the 87 Kero, 87 Kero 15AR and 91 Kero?
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<NathanKell> they are -9 equivalents
<blowfish> so "what if development hadn't been driven by military requirements"
<NathanKell> Or "What if Titan was the main and Atlas the backup"
<NathanKell> or no Atlas at all
<NathanKell> So yeah, space launch via Titan, and a sped-up Titan timetable due to it not being a backup
<ferram4> THe problem is, can you imagine Aerojet having the production lines for two separate kinds of LR-87s and LR-91s, one for kerolox, the other for storable?
<ferram4> I mean, I'd expect everything to end up in hypergolics anyway because simplicity.
<NathanKell> ferram4: The idea is that they don't go storable at all
<NathanKell> That's someone else's (the unnamed backup missile that isn't Titan) problem
<ferram4> So what is the ICBM then?
<NathanKell> Minuteman
<NathanKell> and/or a backup liquid missile
<ferram4> What's the ICBM until that then?
<ferram4> Storable Atlas?
<NathanKell> Titan II didn't reach IOC until Minuteman did anyway, IIRC
<NathanKell> Titan was backup for Atlas, Titan II was backup for Minuteman
<taniwha> if the military isn't driving rocket development, might there not be an ICBM?
<NathanKell> That's a rather larger kettle of fish :]
<ferram4> And then, frankly, there is no space program.
<NathanKell> ferram4: yep, Minuteman I IOC was 1962, same as Titan II
<github> [RealismOverhaul] ahmedcharles opened pull request #1739: Fix TestFlight for RN's R-7 engines. (master...rn) https://git.io/v7Ln6
<taniwha> hmm, so long as the rockets have the required ΔV, retargeting an ICBM for anywhere on the planet is relatively trivial, right?
<taniwha> (just tweak params to the guidance program(s))
<github> [RP-0] pap1723 pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v7LnD
<github> RP-0/master b2e44de pap1723: Revert "New Space Stations Tech Node, Engine Support, Description Addition"...
<github> RP-0/master 00c26cf pap1723: New Space Stations Tech Node, Engine Support, Description Addition...
<ferram4> Hmm. I wonder what they used for control on Minuteman
<ferram4> LITVC like the 120xs?
<NathanKell> Gimbal I think
<acharles> NathanKell: My PR’s don’t work, they are just attempts at a fix. I suspect they’re needed, but they definitely aren’t sufficient
<ferram4> Oh. The 2nd and 3rd stages (at least the later ones) used that.
<ferram4> The 1st stage has a deflector like the A-4 and Redstone.
<NathanKell> Aha!
<ferram4> Unless...
<ferram4> Or it's flex nozzles?
<blowfish> ehh? My recollection is that the minuteman first stage actually has 4 distinct nozzles
<ferram4> I can't really tell.
<NathanKell> It does
<NathanKell> It definitely does
<NathanKell> The early ones at least
<github> [RP-0] ahmedcharles opened pull request #734: Fix Test Flight for RN's R-7 engines. (master...rn) https://git.io/v7Ln7
<blowfish> I don't think they would use deflectors in that case
<ferram4> Trying to get this info is difficult. Considering it's still operational.
<NathanKell> Algol may have used jet vanes tho
<NathanKell> we need an Algol...
<NathanKell> We also need an Antares
<github> [RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7Lnb
<github> RP-0/master 5a9f7ec pap1723: New Space Stations Tech Node, Engine Support, Mod Description Additions...
<Pap> Alright NK, you are good to go with the changes
<NathanKell> Pap the engines look fine :)
<Pap> excellent
<blowfish> kind of blurry but I think you can see the thrust vectoring hydraulics here: http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets/Specials/U.S._Intercept_Target_Missiles/Interceptor/Gallery/M55A1.jpg
<ferram4> Yeah, it looks like it's a flex-seal nozzle.
<ferram4> I didn't know they had them that far back.
<NathanKell> Minuteman was a super-advanced thingie
<NathanKell> Pap: I would suggest cloning the SSTU E-1 from the H-1, the AJ10-190 doesn't IMO look much like a Rocketdyne booster ;)
<NathanKell> (it showed up when I searched Titan)
<Pap> I thought about that as well, but the H1 has that charachteristic (I am assuming exhaust pipe) and different style bell at the bottom, so I didn't think it fit
<Pap> yeah, I added the Titan tag to the E1 since IIRC, it was a proposed alternative engine?
<NathanKell> It was indeed!
<NathanKell> The problem is the AJ10-190 is, well, a pressure-fed vac engine of the 1980s. So a giant carbon bell, no turbopump, etc :]
<NathanKell> Really, the E-1 would have looked like RS-27 (i.e. and H-1 without an exhausterator)
<Pap> Maybe I shouldn't include it from the SSTU parts?
<Pap> No engines look close enough then
<NathanKell> There isn't a good base sadly
<NathanKell> Unless and until shadowmage does an RS-27, which he should :)
<Pap> :( I love that engine
<NathanKell> ikr
<blowfish> what would the RS-27 have looked like? All the pictures I can find show an engine looking much more like the LR-79 (no injection manifold, pump in the support structure) but they might all be of the -27A
<NathanKell> The only really good one we have is via SHIP
<NathanKell> blowfish: Yes, all the -27 pics I've seen show an engine a lot like the -79.
<ferram4> blowfish, I believe the only difference is that the 27A has a longer nozzle.
<NathanKell> ^
<NathanKell> that is correct
<NathanKell> The 27 and A are just supposed to be remanufactured H-1s, I don't understand why they look different either blowfish
<ferram4> The 27A came about when Delta got its, "and now you can't take off without at least 3 Castor IVs" and SL thrust was irrelevant.
<ferram4> Well, less relevant.
<ferram4> Might the differences really just be that the H-1s that we have always have the aspirator attached and the RS-27s don't?
<NathanKell> pump assembly looks different though, no?
<NathanKell> as blowfish says
<blowfish> yeah, that was the main thing that was confusing me really
<blowfish> the exhaust thingie can be explained away but the pump being mounted in a different place (and above/below the gimbal also)
<ferram4> Probably redesign to fit on the Delta better?
<ferram4> I mean, it's not like RS-27s were used anywhere else.
<ferram4> Perhaps early changes to make parts compatible so they could be moved over to the LR-89 and LR-105s?
<NathanKell> But the RS-56OBA/OSA were 'made using H-1 parts', not 'H-1s'
<NathanKell> hmm
<NathanKell> Ah
<NathanKell> Alternatewars: "The RS2701A is a hybrid design that uses the turbopump, turbine, gas generator, valves, and thrust chamber of the H-1 engine, and the control system, start system and packaging arrangement of the MB-3 engine. Early production RS-27s were made from the parts of left over H-1 engines from the Apollo program."
<NathanKell> Clearly someone needs to purchase G.P. Sutton's book...
<ferram4> Ah. So redesign H-1 to fit Delta, basically.
<Raidernick> NathanKell, killing me with these fuel ratio changes
<NathanKell> Raidernick I didn't know you *had* a Titan I
<NathanKell> Just IIs
<NathanKell> II/III/etc
<NathanKell> Sorry!
<Raidernick> you changed the fuel ratio for every config for lr91 and lr87
<NathanKell> The one in the cfg was hilariously wrong tho
<Raidernick> that's not just titan i
<NathanKell> I did not...?
<Raidernick> they are all different...
<NathanKell> git confirms I did not
<NathanKell> I changed the thrust and Isp but not the ratios.
<NathanKell> only the -3 (Titan I) ratios
<NathanKell> since they were utterly bogus
<NathanKell> as a look at the actual docs proved.
<blowfish> one other funny thing I've seen in RS-27 pics is that the two gimbal arms are different lengths
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<Raidernick> NathanKell, who changed all the ratios then
<Raidernick> when i made my configs they were the same as the engine configs ones
<NathanKell> brb
<Raidernick> now they are all different
<Raidernick> NathanKell, any particular reason you changed 2XLR87 to LR87
<Raidernick> that will break engine configs for any engine that uses it
<NathanKell> No it won't
<NathanKell> I already fixed that
<NathanKell> Look at the actual commit, and Pap and I just discussed that above :P
<NathanKell> All engines using the config now properly have the 2x multiplier set.
<NathanKell> anyway, pizza time (FINALLY)
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<Raidernick> NathanKell|NOMZ, you said you didn't change the fuel ratios for anything other than the titan i versions of the engines?
<NathanKell|NOMZ> I did not
<Raidernick> NathanKell|NOMZ, what is engineTypeMult and clusterMultiplier
<acharles> Raidernick: I commented on the PR
<acharles> The changes to RP-0 seem to work.
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<NathanKell|NOMZ> Raidernick engine type mult says multiply thrust and mass by that. Cluster mult applies to the TF config
<Raidernick> NathanKell|NOMZ, should that be set for the lr87 still?
<Raidernick> i have it set to 2 for engine mult and 1.5 for cluster
<Raidernick> i had copied the fasa config
<NathanKell|NOMZ> As I said I updated them in the commit
<NathanKell|NOMZ> It's fine
<Raidernick> NathanKell|NOMZ, also i am trying to switch to lr91 engine config for my engine
<Raidernick> it's adding a vernier to the part
<Raidernick> how do i stop that
<Raidernick> i already have a separate vernier part
<Raidernick> i dont want the configs adding one to main engine module
<github> [RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7LWr
<github> RealismOverhaul/master 72493be pap1723: SSTU Remove E1 Engine...
<github> [RealismOverhaul] raidernick opened pull request #1740: RN fix lr87 and lr91 (master...master) https://git.io/v7LW1
<acharles> Anyone familiar with MM syntax?
<Pap> Some acharles
<acharles> The |’s don’t seem to work.
<acharles> Do you know if they’re supposed to?
<Raidernick> it means or
<Raidernick> and yes they do work
<Raidernick> at least i've never seen them not work
<Raidernick> why do you have two HAS
<Raidernick> it should be HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]&&@CONFIG[RD-107-11D511|RD-107-11D511P]]
<acharles> I didn’t write it originally.
<Raidernick> at least that's how i would do it
<Raidernick> if someone knows differently speak up cause I don't do these types of configs
<acharles> The |’s only seem to work in NEEDS[].
<acharles> Or at least, that’s the only place they are mentioned in the docs
<Qboid> [d5506] title: RN r7 engine fixes... by raidernick | Additions: 711 | Deletions: 471 | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/commit/d5506896cb0cc99c7d28f3798983ae12d5dec838
<acharles> But since you don’t use it, I guess they were never tested? :P
<acharles> But that’s fine, I’m learning stuff, which is always good.
<NathanKell|NOMZ> [22:57] <Raidernick> it should be HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]&&@CONFIG[RD-107-11D511|RD-107-11D511P]] <<< eh? No, it should be HAS[@MODULE[whatever]:HAS[thing it should have]] AFAIK
<Raidernick> NathanKell|NOMZ, like i said i never use HAS
<NathanKell|NOMZ> HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]&&@CONFIG[RD-107-11D511|RD-107-11D511P]] isn't valid at all AFAIK
<Raidernick> so don't listen to me
<NathanKell|NOMZ> ok :)
* NathanKell|NOMZ back to nomz
<Raidernick> but nobody else was helping him
* xShadowx steals NK's nomz
<acharles> NathanKell|NOMZ: HAS[@MODULE[whatever]:HAS[thing it should have|other thing it should have]] doesn’t work, which I suppose is the issue. :P
<xShadowx> dont think can |
<acharles> But fixing it is easy now that I know the problem
<xShadowx> you might be able to do HAS[@MODULE[whatever]:HAS[thing it should have]|@MODULE[whatever]:HAS[other thing it should have]]
<xShadowx> might :P
<xShadowx> else need 2 patches
<acharles> I’m going with all the patches all the time.
<xShadowx> HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]HAS[@CONFIG[RD-107-11D511*]]] might even work, if P or no P is the only options, i forget if wildcard had limited use or not x.x
<xShadowx> : before the HAS heh
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<NathanKell> acharles: Correct, | only works on root-node HAS, not interior HAS
<NathanKell> xShadowx: Nope, can't do that either
<acharles> NathanKell: Welcome back
<NathanKell> have to have multiple patches
<NathanKell> thanks!
<NathanKell> Trying this out although I can't immediately tell a difference between it and RSSVE >.> http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/155785-wip122-et-extreme-textures-overhaul-for-rss/&
<Pap> Woah, that takes some seriousness to run well
<NathanKell> I have 32GB of RAM. I fear no evil.
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<NathanKell|Twitch> sadly without that installed, my Russia career crashed on it, cuz I didn't force DX11 I think
<Pap> yes, I just read that DX11 needs to be forced
<NathanKell|Twitch> Pap you in the twitch?
<NathanKell|Twitch> Looking at your stations change :)
<NathanKell|Twitch> oh wait I shouldn't tempt you it's like 2am there
<Pap> Good night all
<Pap> o/
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<Starwaster> did someone Starwaster me earlier?
<egg|zzz|egg> Starwaster: "<Bornholio> this post is some troubleshooting i did with starwaster, he concluded the fix belonged in RF http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/50296-122-deadly-reentry-v760-june-9-2017-the-ariel-edition/&page=213#comment-3084041" apparently
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<MysteriousSteve> Is there any way to disable having to stage an RCS port to use it?
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<Rokker> MysteriousSteve: prolly
<MysteriousSteve> I just have no idea where to even look?
<MysteriousSteve> Realfuels?
<MysteriousSteve> TestFlight?
<MysteriousSteve> It could be in too many places
<taniwha> MysteriousSteve: you could move it into an earlier stage
<github> [RealismOverhaul] raidernick closed pull request #1740: RN fix lr87 and lr91 (master...master) https://git.io/v7LW1
<github> RealismOverhaul/master 2e3b2bc raidernick: RN fix lr87 and lr91...
<github> [RealismOverhaul] raidernick pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/v7LEy
<github> RealismOverhaul/master 3c1ea5b raidernick: Merge pull request #1740 from raidernick/master...
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<MysteriousSteve> I can't though, on DECQ's Soyuz TMA, if I stage, the landing engines will fire, and on the Service module, since it is all one part they do not activate
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<taniwha> don't the rcs and engines have separate icons?
<Theysen> MysteriousSteve, the current configs for DECQ's are flawed. they need stock resources and currently are not configured for the real fuel
<Theysen> it's not a staging issue (provided you're on the latest 1.2.2 release of DECQ's Soyuz)
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<Theysen> PhineasFreak already updated them waiting to be merged
<MysteriousSteve> Are they on the Github?
<Theysen> MysteriousSteve, should be this one: https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/pull/1727
<Qboid> [#1727] title: [Maintenance] DECQ Soyuz spacecraft | **Change log:**... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/issues/1727
<MysteriousSteve> Yep, configs are definitely broken, Pitch verniers on core are using wrong fuel, the thing can't even get into orbit on it's own
<Theysen> MysteriousSteve, thats why I pointed you at the updated configs. I check if he updated the rocket too
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<acharles> I just realized that if you launch to 52 degrees inclination from Kourou, you end up flying directly over Baikonur.
<ThisDay> July 24: Apollo 11 safely splashes down in the Pacific Ocean in 1969. In 1975, the Apollo CM of the Apollo Soyuz Test Project splashes down. In 1992, Geotail is launched on a Delta II.
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<Maxsimal> o/
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<Pap> o/
<github> [RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7tfw
<github> RealismOverhaul/master d7bd36e Phineas Freak: [Maintenance] DECQ Soyuz spacecraft (#1727)...
<github> [RealismOverhaul] pap1723 closed pull request #1729: [Mod Support] KTDU-35 global engine configuration (master...RO-KTDU-35-Global-Engine-Config) https://git.io/v7fn0
<github> [RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7tfX
<github> RealismOverhaul/master 4a67c97 Phineas Freak: KTDU-35 global engine configuration (#1729)
<Theysen> gmorning Pap
<Hypergolic_Skunk> \o\
<Maxsimal> Hey Pap, HGSK. How goes?
<Pap> Good morning everyone, things are going well, last week of final projects, so living on very little sleep!
<Maxsimal> You're still doing RO updates while you have finals to work on? :P That's dedication - or procrastination
<Pap> Maxsimal: I need to distract myself. I like to have a lot of projects going at once. When I get frustrated, stuck, annoyed, or bored with one, I switch over to the other
<Maxsimal> Pap: Gotcha, I know how you feel, I do the same thing at work, though it's hard to get a balance between too many and too few plates to spin :P
<Pap> Maxsimal: That is an accurate statement, the pressure can build sometimes
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<Dasm> What's a mod that tweaks science value for transmission/recovery? With some experiments, specifically ones that just record just data values, it doesn't make sense to get reduced values on transmitted data
<Pap> RP-0 changes all of the science rates
<Theysen> Dasm, if you get those experiments they are lacking configuration for RP-0.
<Theysen> Agena Guidance Unit e.g. by FASA still has "stock" experiments
<Dasm> Pap: Stock system, not RO/RSS, sorry
<Pap> Theysen: I actually ran into that yesterday, I was very surprised that those were still snuck in there
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<Theysen> Dasm, yes. Science - Full Reward!
<Theysen> Pap, me too, xscience annoyed the crap out of me with it
<Pap> !tell maxsimal Any luck with the Sounding Rocket contracts?
<Qboid> Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Dasm> Theysen: This? I don't think it does that http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/113323-12-science-full-reward/
<Theysen> Dasm, ah right. then go with the SETI suite, it plays like RO/RP-0 just with stock
<Theysen> full science on tempearture readings and such
<Dasm> Awesome, thanks
<Theysen> it's quite an overhaul too though
<Dasm> I was using the engineering tech tree and thought it was pretty interesting, but the SETI tech tree looks cool too
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<Sigma88> pap do you know who's working on RSS 1.3.0 ?
<Sigma88> is there anyone working on it? or can I just start messing with stuff to see if I can get the mod to load on the latest KSP?
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<Theysen> Sigma88, I don't think anybody started work on it
<Sigma88> ok, I will have a PR ready this evening to make the mod load on 1.3.0
<Sigma88> something pretty basic
<Sigma88> just to avoid errors during loading
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<Pap> Sigma88: Make sure you check the PR's that have been submitted already for RSS
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<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn NathanKell|AWAY
* Qboid gives NathanKell|AWAY a symmetric equality
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn NathanKell|WORK
* Qboid gives NathanKell|WORK an irregular protractor
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<Sarbian> NathanKell|AWAY: but who patch the patchers if a patch can patch a patch ?
<egg|nomz|egg> Sarbian: Ꙩ_ꙩ
<egg|nomz|egg> sarbut sarbian
<Sarbian> Hoy egg|nomz|egg
<egg|nomz|egg> Sarbian: how are things on the MJ front
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* UmbralRaptor hands Sarbian a bacteriophage.
<egg> Sarbian: that recent scott manley vid gave me quite a few users :-p
<Sarbian> Inexistent. I used my "not on call" time to rediscover the outside world.
<egg> Sarbian: what is the outside world
<NathanKell|WORK> Sarbian: but there's no technical reason we can't do @@foo right?
<Sarbian> Beside parser hell, no
<Sarbian> I don't use a proper grammar so it gets messy fast
<NathanKell|WORK> ^_^
<NathanKell|WORK> self-modifying code best code
<Sarbian> Yeah, sure ;)
* Sarbian rent a server as an gift for his future AI overlord
<egg> Sarbian: NathanKell|WORK: I mean you can already do self-modifying patches, remember my turing machine :-p
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<Sigma88> pap is there a way for me to merge the commits from the two PR on my branch of RSS?
<Sigma88> or do I need to reproduce the changes manually?
<Pap> Sigma88: I am not a great person to ask, I do not have very good Git-fu
<Sigma88> nevermind :) I'll just bash on my keyboard untill it works :D
<Sarbian> rebase
<Sarbian> And I won't tell you how because I never do it right the first time ;)
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<NathanKell|WORK> Sigma88: you can also merge one branch into another
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<Pap> Sigma88: Something important to know, the RealSolarSystem Textures will not work in the configuration they are in currently. With the addition of the new planetary bodies, and putting all the textures into the pluginData folder, someone will need to change the textures over to these: https://github.com/pap1723/ScaledRSS-Textures/releases
<NathanKell|WORK> Pap: the scaledRSS textures, are they drop-in replaceable? Why have two release channels if so?
<Pap> NathanKell|AWAY: yes, they are drop in capable, I just assumed that having them in the same spot they were always in would be best. I defer to you
<NathanKell|WORK> Ah, hold on. Will/does ScaledRSS do the same stuff to biomes?
<Pap> Well, that is the question that we have not answered yet, what are we going to do with the Earth and Moon biomes
<Sigma88> is scaled rss short for "rescaled" ? or "scaledversion" ?
<Pap> Sigma88: They are there because they work for the rescaled versions of RSS, Quarter RSS and Half Size RSS
<Sigma88> ah I never heard of them
<Sigma88> :D
<Sigma88> I guess it's a good thing :)
<NathanKell|WORK> Then that's a question you might need to self-answer. I would definitely want to make the biome changes for the savebreaking update, but does scaled RSS also want them?
<Pap> Oh, I have them all available in the scaled RSS versions already, they have the additional biomes for Earth and the Moon
<NathanKell|WORK> Ah!
<NathanKell|WORK> Then we're good
<NathanKell|WORK> Yeah we'll just convert over to that then
<NathanKell|WORK> Which reminds me Sigma88 I need to test out your science plugin :)
<Sigma88> NathanKell|WORK: I didn't have time to implement your requests yet
<Sigma88> >_>
<NathanKell|WORK> Ah :]
<Sigma88> been a bit busy with my gazillion mods :D
<NathanKell|WORK> Well no worries
<NathanKell|WORK> it's not like I had time to play with it :D
<Sigma88> you can still take a look at the basic functions
<Sigma88> maybe you come up with more ideas on how to improve it
<acharles> Does anyone know why the gravity scan experiment might not show up in [x] science (to clarify, it doesn’t recognize that the experiment is on the vessel, though it does know that the experiment is possible).
<acharles> Did something change with the science stuff lately?
<Pap> acharles: nothing has changed, did you update [x] science on accident?
<acharles> no
<acharles> I’m using 5.6
<Hypergolic_Skunk> is [X]Science the mod that stops timewarp when entering a new biome?
<acharles> Only if you have the window with the list of currently available experiments open.
<Hypergolic_Skunk> ah! ty :)
<acharles> The issue is that it’s not recognizing the gravity scan as currently available, even when it is.
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<github> [RealismOverhaul] raidernick opened pull request #1741: RN ULA fixes (master...master) https://git.io/v7q45
<Raidernick> NathanKell|WORK, when you have the time can I send you a part I'm having trouble with. The plume is way up inside the enigne and no matter what I adjust the position to I can't get it to move
<NathanKell|WORK> Sorry, know next to nothing about them. your best bet is PhineasFreak or Theysen
<NathanKell|WORK> I mostly let them fix mine since mine are usually screwed
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<Raidernick> does anyone here remember how to do spaces in mm
<Raidernick> is it
<Raidernick> ?
<Raidernick> a question mark