<Maxsimal>
Doesn't Scrapyard do something like that? At least it verifies you're using the same size of proc part for a rebuild. Could use something like that.
<Maxsimal>
I think one approach would be to have RO 'remember' proc parts you've built in the past. Keep the cost the same, but have manufacture time drop, since that's often the bigger penalty
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<Pap>
How soon? There are a few things I want to push
<taniwha>
gonna check out KSCSwitcher?
<taniwha>
(or did you yesterday?
<Bornholio>
loading 30 NTR configs in paps tech tree tonight, sizing .sigh
<NathanKell>
taniwha: I have not yet, will this evening
<taniwha>
cool
<NathanKell>
Pap: How long do you need? ^_^
<Pap>
5-10 minutes
<NathanKell>
Not a worry at all :)
<taniwha>
Seems to work fine at the cape (default location), but other locations may need a visit to flight scene to fix afg
<NathanKell>
taniwha: So loading straight in and never switching at all is fine, but once you switch once every first load is borked?
<NathanKell>
Even if you switch back to the Cape?
<taniwha>
no, switching back to the cape fixes it
<taniwha>
it's only if the location is not the default, and it seems to be only first load
<taniwha>
(though going to TS and back doesn't fix it. not tested editor etc)
<NathanKell>
So even if you switch away, but switch back, then it's fine?
<NathanKell>
because for a while there was a thing where KSC didn't init until you switched for the fist time
<Pap>
NathanKell: have you tried the Geostationary Weather Satellite contracts in any of your games yet?
<taniwha>
I'll poke at it some more this weekend
<taniwha>
right now I'm trying to sort out Kethane's particles (it's using the legacy system and that's deprecated :/)
<NathanKell>
Pap: Nope! Have to launch three Advanced sats for that to open I think
<Pap>
Ok, didn't think so
<Pap>
Those are fun as it requires positioning of the Satellite over a specific area
<NathanKell>
\o/
<NathanKell>
Those are indeed fun.
<NathanKell>
Although when you realize longitude is time, it gets easier :)
<Pap>
I need to work on creating configs for LonesomeRobots Gusmobile and DynaSoar as a side project
<Pap>
They are very pretty and will fit well in RO
<Bornholio>
pap how should i bring my NTR's into play
<Pap>
Oh, NK, can you look at a quick bug that I have come across...The LR91 does not shut off correctly. I have tried throttling to 0 and right clicking to disable engine, but it burns out almost like an SRM
<Pap>
Bornholio: what do you mean?
<Bornholio>
stock part configs + ro configs for them, should i just make a mod seperate or submod of ro or in ro
<NathanKell>
Pap: The real question is if DynaSoar is made with the right wings to be FAR compatible
<NathanKell>
Pap: Whose LR91?
<NathanKell>
It sounds like it isn't being given a ModuleEnginesRF basically
<NathanKell>
or rather not *all* engines on it are.
<Pap>
I had the issue with both the FASA and BDB one
<Pap>
Nope sorry, just the FASA one, I didn't get a chance to try th eBDB one
<NathanKell>
can you upload its entry in configcache?
<NathanKell>
s/upload/hastebin/
<Qboid>
NathanKell meant to say: can you hastebin its entry in configcache?
<NathanKell>
Wow, ScrapYard really does do 90% of the work of a Manufacturing Line thing.
<NathanKell>
Well, at least on a per-part basis.
<NathanKell>
The real issue would be having it recognize stages.
<github>
[RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQRVi
<blowfish>
forgot that the russians liked to have a completely separate turbine for the starting mechanism
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Pap you in the stream?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Pap: Got an orbit request for 41.45Mm x 30.14Mm @ 4 degrees
<NathanKell|Twitch>
that's...odd
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<leudaimon>
NathanKell|Twitch, I would guess it's supposed to be a very odd tundra orbit... I got a similarly strange one. I think Pap set it up to have random parameters, and only the period fixed
<Pap>
leudaimon: yeah, it is actually autogenerated from Contract Configurator
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<Raidernick>
blowfish, you around?
<blowfish>
yeah
<Raidernick>
did that issue with the thrusts in solver engines ever get added?
<Raidernick>
i know the framework was in realfuels
<Raidernick>
but it hadn't been finished
<blowfish>
which issue?
<Raidernick>
the one where it displayed the asl thrust in the vab
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<Raidernick>
instead of vac
<blowfish>
yep, that's fixed
<Raidernick>
ok cool
<blowfish>
fixed a couple of months ago I think
<Raidernick>
btw I'm not sure if it's realfuels or solverengines but I frequently get a LOT of log spam from one of those mods
<Raidernick>
spam about ullage states
<Raidernick>
just the line "Ullage states: " repeated over and over
<blowfish>
SolverEngines knows nothing about ullage
<Raidernick>
ok because besides slowing the game down my logs are gigabytes in size
<Raidernick>
because of that spam
<blowfish>
that would be in a debug build
<blowfish>
did I release a debug build?
<Raidernick>
it was the latest realfuels available on the github release
<Raidernick>
i don't know anything about a debug build
<blowfish>
might have :/
<Raidernick>
12.1.0
<blowfish>
not the sort of thing that should be left to humans to get wrong
<Raidernick>
should I make an issue about it or will you fix it on your own time?
<blowfish>
I'll update the download
<Raidernick>
ok cool thanks
<blowfish>
I would have expected someone else to complain by now if that were the case though
<blowfish>
it's been like 2 months
<Raidernick>
i had shimmy complain to me about a month ago about it
<blowfish>
nothing in the thread
<Raidernick>
i thought he was crazy because i don't play the game more than a few minutes to test it
<blowfish>
or github
<Raidernick>
but i just noticed it now when checking the log
<Raidernick>
it doesn't always do it though
<Raidernick>
i don't know what starts the spam
<Raidernick>
but once it starts you can't stop it without restarting
<Raidernick>
but for instance when you first load up the ship there is no spam
<Raidernick>
i think it might start after decoupling a stage and then switching back to that stage
<Raidernick>
i noticed it after i had decoupled a burned out stage and switched to it
<Raidernick>
so if that were the case it might make sense that people might not notice it
<blowfish>
okay, updated the release
<blowfish>
let me know if you see it again
<Raidernick>
i'll load it up now and retest the same scenario
<Raidernick>
you just updated the 12.1.0 zip right?
<blowfish>
yes
<Raidernick>
k
<Raidernick>
blowfish, no spam all good
<Starwaster>
raidernick: if you see "ullage states" over and over it's because it's compiled in debug mode
<blowfish>
cool!
<blowfish>
Starwaster: yep, we established that
<Starwaster>
oh nvm it's solved already
<Starwaster>
fine, be that way
* Starwaster
pouts
<blowfish>
I probably forgot to change the build setting before releasing
<Starwaster>
daaamn... I think I just broke a tooth
<Raidernick>
are either of you guys familiar with persistent rotation?
<blowfish>
nope, sorry
<Starwaster>
know of it but havent used it or tried it
<Starwaster>
sounds cool though
<Raidernick>
damn
<lamont>
i use it, but i can’t tell you much about it
<Raidernick>
lamont, setting relative rotation mode and earth as the target should keep you pointed in a position relative to the surface
<Raidernick>
like prograde for instance right?
<lamont>
yeah that’s the bit i always disable, but i think that’s the idea
<Raidernick>
yeah it used to work for me in previous versions
<Raidernick>
just noticed it no longer works
<Raidernick>
it keeps the rotation relative to the universe origin
<Raidernick>
like in stock ksp
<lamont>
odd
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<NCommander>
TestFlight makes life interesting
* NCommander
did however manage to revise his craft into something that can hit it's original orbit target
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<NCommander>
Pap, so I can't seem to put nitrogen in any fuel tank for the early altitude thrusters. Not sure if bug or I'm doing something wrong
<taniwha>
typical
<taniwha>
I ordered a sampler set of rosewood guitar picks because I couldn't find mine
<taniwha>
guess what I just found :P
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<Theysen>
!tell Pap, NathanKell*, the RD-100 and all its derivatives don't have ignitions on the latest RP-0 Pap branch and RO-PapUpdates, did you know if there were any changes?
<Qboid>
Theysen: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
don't have ignitions?
<Theysen>
In the VAB it says: O
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Theysen: Also, no spaces in the comma-separated list
<NathanKell|Twitch>
did you recover it?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
or fresh-placed?
<Theysen>
NathanKell|Twitch, the Global Config of the RD-100 states ignitions: 0
<NathanKell|Twitch>
that's...odd.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
Wonder why
<NathanKell|Twitch>
to the git blame!
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* taniwha
has bad memories of git blame
<NathanKell|Twitch>
!tell Pap* we really need to generate the orbits ourselves, I fear. I just got given a 45x26 Mm orbit at...179 degrees (!)
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] Theysen opened pull request #1693: Enable ignitions for the RD-100 (master...master) https://git.io/vQRyG
<NathanKell|Twitch>
!tell Pap* and delta V requirements don't seem to be taken into account, this Molniya mission of only slightly more ComSatBus (7700 instead of 7500) pays better (1) than the last mission.
<Qboid>
NathanKell|Twitch: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Sigma88>
0/
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
\o
<soundnfury>
ø
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<Maxsimal>
Hi
<Maxsimal>
I wish physics on the launch pad wasn't so weird.
<Theysen>
:D
<Starwaster>
yeah I'm getting hit hard by that recently
<Starwaster>
I keep wondering.... is the rigid body being retained when you revert to launch pad? That's almost always when I see weird pad physics. Is the old rigid body being retained with some frame momentum?
<Theysen>
PersistentRotation is the reason iirc
<Maxsimal>
For me it's mostly because the pad interpenetration limits are weird - I'm being cheap and not using launch clamps, and I get a lot of 'this pad is actually an inflated bouncy castle' sorts of things happening.
<Theysen>
never go without clamps.. they don't even cost anything
<NCommander>
when using spin stabilization, is it better to spin clockwise or anticlockwise?
<NCommander>
and why since I like to learn the physics of it
<Maxsimal>
They cost 10k
<Starwaster>
doesnt matter which way
<Starwaster>
antiCW or CW, effect is the same
<soundnfury>
NCommander: it shouldn't make any difference, unless you care which side of due East you get precessed to
<NCommander>
soundnfury, well I think I got this thing balanced properly, it's holding prograde more or less perfectly with SAS off
<NCommander>
It's just short of what I need for orbit, but this is mostly testing launching tech and getting my test data higher
<Starwaster>
as far as launch clamp cost you get it back though
<NCommander>
I do wish FPS won't lag as much when using spin stablization
<soundnfury>
NCommander: yeah it only comes up for spinning sounding rockets
<soundnfury>
as you ascend, aerodynamics tries to pitch you over to match your prograde (gravity turn), but the gyroscopic forces redirect that sideways
<soundnfury>
rule is: for any moment perpendicular to the spin axis, rotate the moment axis 90° forward in the direction of spin to get the new moment from the gyroscope
<soundnfury>
(I think. #notaphysicist)
* NCommander
notes that playing RO seriously goes a long way in expanded one's understanding of physics :)
<NCommander>
and test flight strikes again
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NCommander: tell me about it
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I wish I'd grown up with KSP
<NCommander>
...
<NCommander>
Well I overbuilt my sounding rocket
<NCommander>
It was SUPPOSED to go to 400km
<NCommander>
It reached 1.4m
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NCommander: do you have the Aerobee Telemetry unit in your list of pods?
<NCommander>
Hypergolic_Skunk, yeah
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it's giving me avionics oO
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
as in, tons
<NCommander>
It's not supposed to?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
can you confirm?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I thought it's just a sounding rocket unit, for telemetry and staging
<NCommander>
I thought you couldn't stage if you were over the weight limit
<NCommander>
Hypergolic_Skunk, I'm in the middle of a simulation, as soon as it finishes I'll confirm
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
nah, you can stage, but you can't toggle SAS or RCS
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
np NCommander :)
<NCommander>
real men don't need SAS to go to orbit :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
pfffft :D
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
real men use mechjeb ascent guidance, you mean?
<NCommander>
6000k dV with Test Flight in '52 ain't bad
<Theysen>
custom peg script with krp
<Theysen>
c
<NCommander>
What is PEG exactly?
* NCommander
needs to suck it up and do kOS coding
* NCommander
had a rather stupid test flight failure
<NCommander>
My RD-102 died ... before I detached the launch clamps
<NCommander>
Well
* NCommander
coughs
<NCommander>
Rollback time
<Theysen>
it's the real world upper stage guidance scripts
<Theysen>
I barely get any failures recently..
<NCommander>
As in NASA's stuff?
<Theysen>
no idea why
<NCommander>
I'm low data with these parts
<NCommander>
Test Flight seriously changes the RO game
<NCommander>
Damn
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:D
<NCommander>
With it, I could probably get orbit in '52
<NCommander>
I'll need much better engines to do it now
<NCommander>
Cool
* NCommander
got his sounding rocket stable
<NCommander>
It reliably hits ~700k
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<NCommander>
I feel like I shouldn't be watching Danny2462 while playing RO
<NCommander>
My low tech sounding rocket costs more than the contract, but I will get a ton of records out of it
* NCommander
smashes build
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
care for a screenshot? :P
<NCommander>
Hypergolic_Skunk, sure, anyway, the Aerobee on my RO setup has no weight for it's telemetry unit
<NCommander>
the GPU melts down due to the spinning
<Theysen>
i doubt that
<Theysen>
and dont spin up like 5000000000000000rpm
<Theysen>
:D
<NCommander>
I don't get lag on the map screen
<NCommander>
Game melts down on the flight view
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I have the same, but only if the rotation of the stabilizers is set too high
<NCommander>
and I have TECO
<NCommander>
I would have liked to launch this down range like I planned but it didn't get enough height for the contracts
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
ending up with 3 rotations per second seems to be working fine
<NCommander>
I'm used curved wings to get it to spin
<NCommander>
So I don't have much control
<NCommander>
It's literially just push spacebar at the right periods
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
curved?
<NCommander>
er, tilted
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
yeah, same for me
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I do exactly that
<NCommander>
I just turn it one notch
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
and if your game craps out, it's probably because your sounding rocket is spinning 500 times per second :p
* NCommander
is rather enjoying watching the various ground stations pick up my rocket
<NCommander>
White Sands just saw it
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
so my advice is to reduce the 'notch' :p
<NCommander>
I turned it one tick on unangeled view
<NCommander>
er, non-snap mode
<NCommander>
Hypergolic_Skunk, how high does your sounding rocket go?
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
this one? roughly 200km
<NCommander>
yeah, I had to hit 340km for this
<NCommander>
And then I went slightly overboard
* NCommander
just got 5 altitude records :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I think your stabilizer design is too crazy. much too big. and the top stage won't need any if first stage burnout happens in the higher atmosphere
<NCommander>
Well something to learn
<NCommander>
Oooh, and I got a speed record as this begins coming back down
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
free money :D
<NCommander>
Looks like I'm going to hit Tampa
<NCommander>
huh
<NCommander>
It survived re-entry
<NCommander>
Didn't expect that
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
she's a keeper? :P
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
(for the next contract)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
err, recovery contract, I mean
<NCommander>
Too pricy
<NCommander>
Unfortunately
<NCommander>
Huh
<NCommander>
I just noticed
<NCommander>
I actually had the aerobee cut off before it ran out of fuel
<NCommander>
Engine failure
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
you do R&D?
<Theysen>
Wow I thought I had forgotten forward thrust to ullage the AJ-27 on my kick stage .. turned out the decoupler provided enough! Yay orbit
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
\0/
<NCommander>
Theysen, reminds me of when someone managed to launch a capsule in stock with nothing but decouplers
<NCommander>
Ah, someone doesn't miss the 0.13 parts ;)
<NCommander>
The mk1 pod is rather deep in the tree
* NCommander
hrms
<NCommander>
With some of the better solids
<NCommander>
I could probably get the sputnik in orbit
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<Probus>
How are your frame rates now NCommander?
<NCommander>
Not great
<Probus>
Are you still getting a pause every few seconds?
<NCommander>
No, but it's still running at halftime for the most part
<Probus>
Ouch!
<NCommander>
It's GPU issues
<NCommander>
It runs fine in the map view
<NCommander>
Up to about 400 parts in stock
<Theysen>
then it shouldn't crap itself with a simple sounding rocket oO
<NCommander>
It was the rotation that was causing issues
* NCommander
is very very patient with KSP
<Probus>
I turned my fps to 60 and tweaked my graphics settings until I could keep it at 60 fps most of the time. Turned anti-aliasing down
<Probus>
400 parts would still slow my system down though
<NCommander>
I'm wondering if I cluster the Aerojets if I could actually get the probe into orbit
<Probus>
I don't know why I get a better frame rate when it is set at 60 fps instead of 180 fps, but it works for some reason.
<NCommander>
where do you lock the framerate?
<Probus>
graphics settings from the main menu.
* NCommander
tries it
* NCommander
loads his sandbox file and fires the Saturn V
<Maxsimal>
Now I'm having trouble re-engaging my throttle in a piloted craft :(
<NCommander>
Surprisingly
<NCommander>
This seems to be an improvement
<NCommander>
Not great
<NCommander>
But much more playable
<Probus>
Weird, isn't it...
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* NCommander
grumbles
<NCommander>
I dislike time warping ahead 3-4 years to wait for nodes to finish
<Maxsimal>
Spend upgrade points on more science speed
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
and do something in the meanwhile
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
take contracts :p
<NCommander>
Maxsimal, I did
<Theysen>
paps new tree is more warping then before :P
<NCommander>
Damn, now that I staged the Sat V, I'm getting close to realtime
<Maxsimal>
Well, then spend even more upgrade points :P
<NCommander>
it's flickering green
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NCommander: it'll be even better once the dropped stages are 2.2 km away or thereabout
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
(dropping out of physics range)
<NCommander>
Hypergolic_Skunk, yeah it did, but Test Flight killed the J-2s on the way up
* NCommander
isn't completely sure that's accurate given the J-2 did some fairly long burns in RL
<Maxsimal>
your J-2's probably didn't have any R&D data.
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<NCommander>
Maxsimal, ... TestFlight should probably disable itself in Sandbox
<Maxsimal>
Ncommander: Maybe it should be a config option, you can't just turn off TF without uninstalling the mod AFAIK, but others might want it in sandbox
<Theysen>
Maxsimal, you can disable TF in the TF settings..
<Theysen>
under save game
<Theysen>
you can also give every part max data to keep some failures based on just "f*** you" but you won't need to collect data anymore
<Maxsimal>
Theysen: Good to know, though I like it at its full difficulty, encourages running engine tests or doing contingency planning. I was just replying to NCommander.
<Maxsimal>
And now I'm having a throttle bug with a craft on the pad - the game really doesn't like me recovering craft.
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
April 3, 1957 - we have a confirmed orbit :D
<Theysen>
Maxsimal, you were talking disabling it in sandbox and I just said you can disable directly ingame; no need to uninstall?
<Theysen>
whatevs
<Pap>
o/
<Qboid>
Pap: Theysen left a message for you in #RO [01.07.2017 08:14:31]: "NathanKell*, the RD-100 and all its derivatives don't have ignitions on the latest RP-0 Pap branch and RO-PapUpdates, did you know if there were any changes?"
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [01.07.2017 08:46:16]: "we really need to generate the orbits ourselves, I fear. I just got given a 45x26 Mm orbit at...179 degrees (!)"
<Qboid>
Pap: NathanKell|Twitch left a message for you in #RO [01.07.2017 08:48:02]: "and delta V requirements don't seem to be taken into account, this Molniya mission of only slightly more ComSatBus (7700 instead of 7500) pays better (1) than the last mission."
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<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* I hear you on the orbit generation. I have a bunch of questions for you about the best structure of them, I will send you a long message with them in Discord
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
Theysen: did teh RD-100 get figured out? I was reading the Issue you posted
<Theysen>
already prd
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<NCommander>
Hrm
<NCommander>
No pre-existing ScinceDef files or am I blind?
<Pap>
They exist
<Pap>
Let me find them for you
<Pap>
Did you figure out the Nitrogen issue?
<NCommander>
Not yet
<NCommander>
I was about to try tackling it again now
<Pap>
You cannot put Nitrogen into a tank?
<NCommander>
Neither in the cockpit or the procedual ones
<NCommander>
leudaimon, that's the values, but the messages are/were stored in a seperate file called ScienceDefs I thought
<Pap>
Not taht one leudaimon, he is looking for the descriptions
<Pap>
It is in RO I am pretty sure
<leudaimon>
sorry, probably got the talk in the middle
<NCommander>
Pap, ok, so testing with Nitrogen, if I put the trusters directly on a tank, it shows up in the list, I can't add it to the cockpits though that have a small fuel tank like the X1 one
<Pap>
NCommander: Nitrogen should be available from the start
<Pap>
I think it is because the tanks need to be pressurized
<Pap>
So it might be a bug that the X1 cockpit tank is not pressurized and it should be?
<Pap>
Highly pressurized I mean
<NCommander>
Yeah, it's not HP
<NCommander>
I have no idea if it should or shouldn't be
<Pap>
Yep, that is a question for NK I think
<leudaimon>
yeah, when I want to use RCS on a X-1 cockpit I use small procedural tanks
<leudaimon>
must be fuselage
<Pap>
So strangely enough, the Science defs are actually stored in the RealSolarSystem mod
<NCommander>
That being said, would it matter in real life? A cold-gas thruster simply works by venting the gas via pressure differential. If I opened a value and shot nitrogen into space
<NCommander>
Well that's an RCS truster
<NCommander>
Not a great one
<NCommander>
But its one
<leudaimon>
I guess you need a large pressure differential for it to work as intended, and also with high pressure you get to put a lot more gas in a given volume, the resource is probably configured for high pressure density
<leudaimon>
Pap, it actually makes sense... RO can work in other solar systems, only RP-0 depends on RSS
* NCommander
is concerned on using the non-RP0 heatshields ...
<leudaimon>
what heatshields are non RP-0
<NCommander>
I have non RP-0 - Heatshield 1.25
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<leudaimon>
NCommander, if I were you, I would use the hack to remove all non-RP0 parts... just add an empty folder into your gamedata, named NoNonRP0
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<leudaimon>
but you should have a 1.25 heatshield compatible to RP0
<NCommander>
Unfortunate as I have no heatshields beyond these two non-RP0 ones
<Pap>
Do you have Deadly Reentry installed NCommander?
<NCommander>
Yes
<leudaimon>
I'm not so familiar with the new tech tree, but maybe Pap could tell you what is going on
<NCommander>
It was in the recommended set
<Pap>
That is where all the heatshields come from, hmmm
<Pap>
Well, they won't unlock until the first Entry Descent and Landing Node, do you have that unlocked? Parachute icon
<Sisyphus192>
Does anyone here happen to know where the principia mod get the gravitational parameter for celestial bodies to 7 decimal places? Even horizons will only give me the GP to 3 decimal places if at all
<NCommander>
Pap, nowhere close
<NCommander>
Pap, I have two non-RP0 heatsheilds in my start node
<Pap>
!tell egg* Can you tell Sisyphus192 where you found gravitational parameters to 7 decimal places?
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Pap>
With the new tech tree, the start node is the only place that non-Rp0 parts can show up, the rest of the nodes are named differently from anything else out there
<NCommander>
so having them is a bug?
<Pap>
Not a bug so much, do you know what part pack they are from?
<NCommander>
Looks like DR
<NCommander>
I think
<NCommander>
Yeah
<NCommander>
1.25_Heatshield is from DR
<Pap>
then that is probably a miss on my part, let me do some checking...
<Pap>
Yes, that is a mistake on my part, I am surprised you are the first to see it!
<Pap>
What is the other one?
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Probably most of us use that NoNonRP0 folder.
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Btw, I'm having a bug with throttling my engines, first I had an issue with the throttle stuck at 0 after I finished burning out an A-4 on a manned craft, then when I recovered that craft, it was stuck at 0 right from launch. Any ideas what might be going on?
<Pap>
True Maxsimal, but it means taht there is no 1.25m Non-Lunar Heatshield in the tree
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Heheh ok, fair enough. I'm still on early times in playing your tree, and I have a tendancy to play slow.
<Pap>
Any chance there was a TestFlight failure?
<Pap>
Does TF persist between craft when they are recovered using KCT?
<Maxsimal>
It seems not to, from the TF console - the MBTF is as normal is you started the engine fresh
<Maxsimal>
And even if you do get a TF failure, it doesn't stop you from putting your throttle up, it just kills the engine. I hit Z and it's stuck at 0, as if it was a RT issue - but it's a manned craft.
<Pap>
That one I cannot help you with, I have shared the extent of my knowledge ;)
<Maxsimal>
It's ok, thanks for listening, I will bug NK when he's around
<NCommander>
For RO/RP-0, do we want to have our own science defs seperate from RSS?
<github>
[RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQRhY
<Pap>
NCommander: I do not think that is necessary, NK may feel differently though
<NCommander>
gah
<NCommander>
Test Flight has insured every mission has a launch escape system
<Pap>
NCommander: you can download the above fix and it will not break your save
<Pap>
Yes, Agathorn is a cold hearted man
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
coming from you, that says a lot :D
<NCommander>
Pap, I've been pulling git every time I start KSP
<Pap>
You stay quiet. No landing legs for you
<Pap>
ok good NCommander
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
:(
<NCommander>
If the save breaks, I delete the tech tree from persistant, and then unlock everything with KCT disabled
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* NCommander
grumbles
<NCommander>
Two launches, two performance losses, I'm not burning past the max time
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
welcome to TestFlight <3
<leudaimon>
:) time for the actual lunar flyby, and I managed a perfect free return trajectory
<NCommander>
Funds are going to become a problem, aren't they?
<NCommander>
At least I get to watch my rockets blow up on the way down
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
NCommander: build some dedicated engine-test-platform rockets, to iron out the kinks in their design :)
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
and only do that for engine you really need :p
<NCommander>
Well I'm currently working on the RD-102
<NCommander>
Since I suspect that's what I'm going to use to put my first thing in orbit
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Figured it out. MJ was set to 'prevent unstable ignitions' - and it seems that option was interfering, even though my engine was stable
<leudaimon>
did you R&D it NCommander?
<NCommander>
Yeah I did
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<NCommander>
I'm now at 5k DU on it
* NCommander
debates using the fundraising campagain
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* NCommander
fires a third one
<NCommander>
HAH
* NCommander
got to his target altitude
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<NCommander>
Pap, design check (sorry if I'm being annoying), X-Planes (Suborbital) requires that you broke the sound barrer crewed, and First Orbital Flight (Crewed)
<NCommander>
That seems backwards
<NCommander>
The X-15 managed suborbital flight well before Mercury
<Pap>
NCommander: first X-15 to go over 100 km was Flgiht 90 launched in 1963
<Pap>
s/Flgiht/Flight
<Qboid>
Pap meant to say: NCommander: first X-15 to go over 100 km was Flight 90 launched in 1963
<NCommander>
Pap, true, but I do think it should become before manned orbital flight, no?
<Pap>
I don't think it should necessarily come before, but I agree that there is no reason to require it
<Pap>
I will allow both to be acheiveable at the same time
<Pap>
Alright, gotta run for the day, see you all this evening!
<NCommander>
++
Pap is now known as Pap|AFK
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* NCommander
is trying ... and somewhat failing to figure out how to build a decent mid stage
<leudaimon>
NCommander, what do you have available, and what is your objective?
<NCommander>
leudaimon, orbit, and a few of the low end tech nodes. I've been tryhing to figure out if I can get the Aerobee to be a decent midstage kicker
<NCommander>
but I'll need like 6 stages to kick something to orbit that way, and TestFlight looms
<leudaimon>
you do have a RD-101/2 as first stage, right?
<leudaimon>
what avionics nodes did you unlock?
<leudaimon>
and are you using the XASR-1 instead of the WAC?
<Theysen>
NCommander, I just built a A-9 booster stage, 4 AJ-27's and 1 AJ-27 insertion stage
<leudaimon>
yeah, with the AJ-27 is even easier if you have unlocked it
<NCommander>
Don't have the AJ-27 yet
<NCommander>
leudaimon, the one with the sputnik on it
* NCommander
just closed down the game for now
<leudaimon>
yeah, I didn't play the new tree much yet, but I think you can use avionics (especially if you use a procedural one) in your second stage, with 4/5 XASR-1s or AJ-27s, and make the kick stage unguided
<leudaimon>
just for orbit, the sounding rocket core is actually better than the sputnik one
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<NCommander>
Well I wanted to put the actual sputnik one up due to history
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<NCommander>
I'm going to lie down
<NCommander>
If I can't sleep, I'll be bak
<Bornholio>
.patsOnHead
<leudaimon>
yeah, I would have to make some tests to make sure this is possible with the sputnik core... but given you have the second tier of proc. avionics, that should be possible
<Bornholio>
did it last time with triple a-9(side boosters) 5 xasrs and one xsr in final stge but it sucked bad with many tf failures
<stratochief>
happy Canada day, all. o/ Agathorn|ST
<Bornholio>
cheers
<stratochief>
fingers crossed for no attacks or disruptions, since that would increase my expectation of similar attempts on 'Merica day celebrations
* egg|anbo|egg
gives stratochief a beaver
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<stratochief>
egg|anbo|egg: what's an anbo? I recognized df=dwarf fortress, but not anbo
<Bornholio>
any good examples of mod parts made of more than one model?
<stratochief>
Bornholio: like, by RO? because RO does that a lot, particularly within FASA
<stratochief>
them cows are upside down. I didn't know you had a telescope that could all the way to australia!
<Bornholio>
earth is flat he is using the nasa hologram generators
<egg|anbo|egg>
stratochief: the scope is a refractor, not a reflector or a cat, and I haven't put a prism in, hence the upside-downness of cows
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NathanKell|AWAY is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: Pap left a message for you in #RO [01.07.2017 14:02:57]: "I hear you on the orbit generation. I have a bunch of questions for you about the best structure of them, I will send you a long message with them in Discord"
<NathanKell>
Pap|AFK: Ok!
<NathanKell>
NCommander: The reason for the X-1 cockpit not allowing high-pressure tanks is because if it did, you couldn't (at that tech level) have oxygen in it. And it needs oxygen.
<NathanKell>
Quirk of how RF-with-techlevels works.
<NathanKell>
!tell Pap|AFK as I suspected, CC just uses stock KSP's orbit generation code. That's why it plays so oddly.
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell>
urf that should have been Pap*
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to pap1723-ROupdates: https://git.io/vQ0Gp
<github>
RealismOverhaul/pap1723-ROupdates 5685851 NathanKell: Tweak sat bus density slightly to make mass estimation much easier (about 14% heavier)
<github>
[RP-0] NathanKell pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQ0Gh
<github>
RP-0/Pap-TechTree f3ca172 NathanKell: Contract tweaks: Repeatable commsat gets quite a change (GSO->GEO, rewards and bus requirements tweak that respect tech level), other contracts get a bit of bus tweak and some ComSat->WeatherSat in description where needed. Fix typo in Tundra rewards.
<leudaimon>
NathanKell, I finally managed to complete the lunar flyby in RtS \o/
<NathanKell>
What's with 'into' being spelled with a 't' -- did Pap infect you? :P
<NathanKell>
And congrats! I saw you did it what, 150+ days earlier? :)
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<NathanKell>
I'm not sure you're beatable at this point tbh :)
<leudaimon>
I saw everyone using this spelling and changed
<NathanKell>
by everyone you mean...Pap? With us making fun of him? :P
<leudaimon>
lol
<NathanKell>
Seriously impressive stuff :)
<leudaimon>
I have just bought the pad upgrade, and early hydrolox will unlock in a week ;)
<NathanKell>
Ah, I was banking on you staying Russian. If you're adopting hydrolox, we *are* all screwed :P
<leudaimon>
lol
<NathanKell>
With the pad upgrade, you could just do N1/L3 you know :P
<NathanKell>
In fact with a Mk1 pod and a gemini lander you could do it with only a bit more than Proton I think
<leudaimon>
I might use the RL-10 for the gas giants and maybe TLI for a lunar landing
<NathanKell>
(#%@ commies, stealin' our stuffz
<leudaimon>
I haven't had the time to think about my strategy tbh
<leudaimon>
I haven't got this far in the career more than once or twice
<NathanKell>
Wow, I thought you had played a bunch to 70s-era tech...
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|Twitch
<NathanKell|Twitch>
time for the 2:30 stream...
<leudaimon>
I have started many careers, but never get far
<leudaimon>
about hydrolox, I think it's very powerful, but sometimes the price is not worth it... I'm getting a very fast rate of launches because my crafts are pretty cheap
<NathanKell|Twitch>
yeah, also using Soviet equipment helps
<NathanKell|Twitch>
but the advantage comes with *not* using Soviet payloads :]
<leudaimon>
NathanKell|Twitch, Definitely!
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: well *fsck* me silly
<soundnfury>
NK is right, we're all screwed to the wall
<soundnfury>
otoh, now that I know not to bother rushing my lunar flyby, I can continue playing
<soundnfury>
(my game's been parked for nearly a week)
<leudaimon>
o/ soundnfury
<soundnfury>
\o leudaimon
<leudaimon>
I'm now wondering if I go for the lunar landing or a space station...
<soundnfury>
what LV did you use, just a big Soyuz?
<leudaimon>
nope
<leudaimon>
4 RD253s, 2 NK9Vs, 2 11D33s
<leudaimon>
delta-v to spare actually
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: well let me know which one you're doing, so I can do the other :P
<soundnfury>
So just serial staging?
<leudaimon>
it's the same LV I used for the sample return
<leudaimon>
yeah
<soundnfury>
man, that leaves me the only one carrying the torch for parallel stages :/
<soundnfury>
(atlas 4 lyfe, yo)
<leudaimon>
as soon as I got the staged combustion node, I left my RD-108-based LVs for the ones based on the RD253
<leudaimon>
and it doesn't have enough burn time for a sustainer
<leudaimon>
staged combution is very OP
<Rokker>
stratochief: why canada
<Rokker>
why
<lamont>
RD253s are a bit insane
<soundnfury>
'zat one of the Proton stages?
<leudaimon>
my light LV uses only one of those (and a bunch of verniers because it can't gimbal), and I can do so much stuff with it
<leudaimon>
yep, first stage of proton
<soundnfury>
having them in the first SC node is hella OP, I'm glad Pap's tree fixes that
<Rokker>
stratochief: WHY
* soundnfury
will be sticking with Atlases until J-2
<leudaimon>
yeah... the NK9V is also gorgeous... 400kN, 4min burn time, 340s ISP
<soundnfury>
because I *refuse* to use LR105 as an upper (it's just *wrong*), and I don't like using big hypergolics either (there really should be some cost penalty for the environmental hazard ;)
<soundnfury>
so there just aren't any options left for high-thrust uppers
<leudaimon>
the NK9V is kerolox
<leudaimon>
also the RD-0110
<leudaimon>
(unless you want to stick to US)
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: commies commies commies BANG
* soundnfury
waves at Rokker
<soundnfury>
also what's the RD-0110?
<Rokker>
WHY CANADA
<leudaimon>
molnyia upper stage
<leudaimon>
200kN
<soundnfury>
I take it you got that from SSTU or something, 'cos I've never seen it
<leudaimon>
RealEngines
<soundnfury>
'k, don't have that
<Rokker>
soundnfury: why
<Rokker>
WHY CANADA
<leudaimon>
I'm not using it, but it's on mature orbital
<soundnfury>
just standard RO and FASA
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: I'm actually thinking I need to move my LR105-S4 config into mature orbital
<soundnfury>
it's in heavy right now, which is probably too late
<soundnfury>
Rokker: what did they do?
<leudaimon>
you can go directly to the lr79 hydrolox
<leudaimon>
it's a nice 600kN
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: you mean lr87?
<leudaimon>
yeah, sorry
<soundnfury>
I'm also a bit leery of that one because it didn't fly and it _feels_ cheaty to have it in the first hydrolox node. Also it looks ugly.
<leudaimon>
it's also in early hydrolox
<leudaimon>
lol
<soundnfury>
But again Pap's tree fixes that I think by pushing it back a node or two
<soundnfury>
In any case, I haven't unlocked early hydrolox yet, still a month away
<leudaimon>
yeah, we should start a RIS game on the new tree as soon as it's released
<Rokker>
soundnfury: Tim Horton is doing a poutine donut
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: yes, we should
<NathanKell|Twitch>
leudaimon: Agree. Well, not on the 'released' part
<Rokker>
for Canada day
<NathanKell|Twitch>
just on the 'start ASAP' part :)
<soundnfury>
Rokker: oh I did hear about that yes. Why canada, why indeed.
<leudaimon>
then Pap|AFK will lead ;)
<Rokker>
soundnfury: how be u
<soundnfury>
Rokker: ehh, tired. Played a cricket match today, lost by over 100 runs.
<Rokker>
...
<Rokker>
fake baseball?
* soundnfury
hits Rokker over the head with some tea
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<Rokker>
soundnfury: freedom
<Rokker>
the world needs more pusher puller planes
<leudaimon>
NathanKell|Twitch, by "released" I mean stable enough to start a competitive game
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
leudaimon: Oh!
<NathanKell|Twitch>
I think it's about there now tbh
<leudaimon>
cool
<leudaimon>
tbh, if you guys want to start it now, I'm fine with we considering the current RIS game finished... I might continue that career because it is very sucessful, but I see so many flaws in the game compared to the current tree, it would be nice to start new
<leudaimon>
soundnfury, one thing that would be nice would be to establish more defined rules
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: well tbh I was half-expecting RIS to crash and burn so I wasn't too worried about laying out rules and so on
<leudaimon>
it has worked very well soundnfury!
<soundnfury>
anyway, I think we should play the current game a little bit further, maybe get flags on the moon
<soundnfury>
hopefully by then the paptree will be _even better_
<Bornholio>
Paps new tree needs a bunch more playtime for mid to late game, early is good. he will be happy to have more slav... ah err testers
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: yeah, it's surpassed my wildest expectations :)
<soundnfury>
it works *and* it's popular ;)
<Bornholio>
anyone know how to stop the emissive from blooming without engine on with a part that has an assembly of models?
<soundnfury>
and people seem surprisingly accepting of the payout numbers I pulled out of my... out of thin air
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<Ramh5>
/msg NickServ identify 7777
<Ramh5>
LOL
<soundnfury>
hunter2
<Ramh5>
hellow any one and everyone
<leudaimon>
the one payout i think is off is frist station vs lunar landing
<Ramh5>
I just build a fairly high twr launcher for comsats into orbit, now MJ tells me that I spend about 1500 m/s gravity losses and 1500 m/s drag losses, it is reasonable?
<Ramh5>
or am I just pushing through the thick atmosphere too hard
<leudaimon>
1500m/s drag losses is just impossible
<Ramh5>
maybe I read it wrong, much too low ?
<Ramh5>
much too high? I have no idea
<leudaimon>
much too high
<leudaimon>
drag losses are negligible
<Ramh5>
hum but that is what MJ tells me, it also said max drag G force is 4gs
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<Ramh5>
so maybe MJ drag losses is not working as intended?
<leudaimon>
I don't really pay attention at it, but you can do the maths, look at your expended delta-v just when you get into orbit, and compare it to your surface speed, and all 3 sources of losses... if it sums up you are good
<Ramh5>
yea nice
<Ramh5>
will do just that now
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: is SS too high, or LL too low?
<soundnfury>
I wanted to avoid making it a "race for lunar landing, nothing else really matters"
<leudaimon>
I understand... but in terms of tech and delta-v you need a lot more for a lunar landing, don't you?
<leudaimon>
not really delta-v, but impulse
<soundnfury>
well, but a SS is a complicated endeavour and mission arch. compared to some options for a LL
<soundnfury>
(if you just throw more Nova at it)
<leudaimon>
yeah, I think you are right
<leudaimon>
even if you think about what brought a greater legacy for future endeavours, SSs are mor important
<soundnfury>
So I guess I _could_ goose up LL a little bit, but I think it might be better to leave it where it is but add a payout for Lunar Orbit
<leudaimon>
yeah, that would be nice
<soundnfury>
(since I was thinking at the time that people would do that and flyby at the same time, rather than sending death-traps on free-returns)
<leudaimon>
I was a little let down when I saw that the orbit didn't have a payout
<leudaimon>
do you keep track of anything else besides contracts?
<soundnfury>
yeah, I'll definitely give it one when we're setting up for PTT game
<soundnfury>
leudaimon: only corpse count
<Maxsimal>
PTT game?
<Maxsimal>
Pap's tech tree?
<soundnfury>
^
<leudaimon>
I see... I get curious about how people are faring, techs unlocked, buildings upgraded and this kind of stuff... but I guess it would be too hard to include, right?
<NathanKell|Twitch>
soundnfury: I'd definitely like Lunar Orbit to have a payout, too
<NathanKell|Twitch>
It's only a quirk of the race that flyby and orbit happened at the same time; a Gemini flyby (or more likely Zond flyby) would not have inserted.
<leudaimon>
number of tech nodes unlocked and of building updgrades in the table would be enough
<leudaimon>
I really wonder why the gemini-agena stuff didn't go for a flyby
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
Way more could go wrong on an EOR flyby than a simple Saturn V loft, and Apollo was a more survivable craft in many ways. Cynically, they probably didn't want to detract from the focus on Apollo.
<leudaimon>
sure, that would be daring... just thinking about the race though, I think it could make sense. No doubt the Apollo program made it in a much more robust way
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<Maxsimal>
You're going to do another race with PTT? Any chance I can join in?
<soundnfury>
Maxsimal: yeah, should be fine, as long as you can commit enough time to not hold the game back
<soundnfury>
but I imagine it'll be another couple of weeks before we start it
<Maxsimal>
soundnfury: Can do. And I'll look forward to it. doing my own speed run testing/mission report of pap's stuff now - I'm really enjoying it so far.
<soundnfury>
:)
<NathanKell|Twitch>
looking forward to it, Maxsimal :)