<NathanKell>
I spent way too much of my life on Civ2, and then again on EAW (was one of the early modders for it actually)
<NathanKell>
So basically you're responsible for far more of my happy times than I ever could be for your RO happy times :D
<SlainteMaith>
And his mother used to bake cookies. For the entire company. It was funny--the whole place would stampede to the kitchen when they were announced. That's a piece of MPS trivia no one tells you. =)
<NathanKell>
Yeah, only ever heard good things like that about Sid :)
<NathanKell>
Awww!
<SlainteMaith>
Welp, look in the credits. My name is there.
<SlainteMaith>
Not as SlainteMaith, of course.
<SlainteMaith>
But Michael Davidson.
<NathanKell>
I actually have my EAW manual nearby. I'll check tonight :)
<NathanKell>
Civ, now, I should be able to find at least *one* of 'em
* NathanKell
bought about every version of Civ ever, including Civ2, Gold, Scenarios, FW, etc...
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<SlainteMaith>
Well. I'm not in all of those. My name -should- be in Civ 2: Multiplayer Gold, Civ 2: Test of Time, and Civ 3 to be sure--although I was working at Hasbro Interactive at that time.
<leudaimon>
man, I grew up playing civ2, in a 486
<NathanKell>
I was on pentium by then, but Pirates! Gold was 386 and 486 for me :)
<SlainteMaith>
I know I'm in Falcon 4.0, although I came in late in the dev process.
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<NathanKell>
you just gave us all the bestest nostalgia :)
<leudaimon>
definitely
<SlainteMaith>
You guys must me old, too. I don't feel so bad. =)
<NathanKell>
have you wondered where my nick comes from? :P
* NathanKell
checks off *another* chunk of his childhood
<NathanKell>
man, regex isn't here >.>
<SlainteMaith>
Uh. I figured your name was Nathan. Kell?
<SlainteMaith>
*Grins*
<NathanKell>
Hah, no, Nathanael Deraney
<NathanKell>
Nathan Kell was a minmaxed marysuish MW2nd Ed character
<NathanKell>
and MW3 was the best of the PC adaptations :)
<NathanKell>
(it and MechCommander used the real rules not the Solaris ones after all)
<SlainteMaith>
I really liked MW3. Wish it worked on modern machines--I'd play it still.
<SlainteMaith>
EAW doesn't work on modern anything, either. =(
<NathanKell>
Well, at least we have Strike Fighters
<SlainteMaith>
TK!
<NathanKell>
(and First Eagles, but the EAW era is better in Strike Fighters)
<NathanKell>
Indeed!
<SlainteMaith>
I'll tell you my EAW story--and Why I'm A Tester.
<NathanKell>
Please do!
<SlainteMaith>
So we were in mid-dev. Most of the flight characteristics were already 'in.' I was still new to testing. So I complete my mission, and then, on a whim, decided to see if I could land my plane. Upside down.
<NathanKell>
Let me guess, gear weren't explicitly modeled :]
<SlainteMaith>
I flip over and fly a gorgeous inverted approach. ILS couldn't have guided it better. I land right on the canopy. The plane instantly flips over and gives me 'engine damage.' That was it.
<NathanKell>
just sink rate and bool
<NathanKell>
Wait, it flipped?
<NathanKell>
Huh! Now that's interesting. Warp to correct state?
<NathanKell>
sorry, can't turn the programmerbrain off :D
<SlainteMaith>
So I do it again just to see if it's repeatable. Yep. I call my lead over and do it for him. He says, "Hang on.."
<NathanKell>
But great you thought to try that, clearly no one had :D
<SlainteMaith>
So I'm doing it again for the head of test, and the lead tester. They go, hang on...
<SlainteMaith>
Long story short: The crowd I had behind me was TK, the studio head--I forget who it was at the time--they needed a revolving door in those days--and just about everyone working on the project.
<NathanKell>
:D
<SlainteMaith>
And they were all sort of chuckling.
<SlainteMaith>
But I was given a nice pat on the head, and I was smug knowing that I was the only person who thought outside the box enough to test something like that.
<NathanKell>
:)
<SlainteMaith>
I'm still friends with TK. =)
<NathanKell>
Awesome!
* TheKosmonaut
is getting pinged
<NathanKell>
He's in the pantheon, gotta say :D
<NathanKell>
TheKosmonaut: Hah
<SlainteMaith>
It was an amazing place to work. By far the best workplace I've had and the most fun people.
<NathanKell>
Sounds like! And sounds like Firaxis is broadly keeping that alive, or so I think/hope :)
<leudaimon>
are you still in the gaming industry?
<SlainteMaith>
Guys who used to work with me as testers have gone on to be exec producers at Firaxis, or Bethesda.
<SlainteMaith>
Nope. I left it. Too unstable. If I lived in MD still, I'd have been happy with a gig at Firaxis.
<SlainteMaith>
I'm retired now.
<NathanKell>
Well, you ever get out northwest I'd be happy to buy you a $BEVERAGE :)
<NathanKell>
And swing you by Valve if you care to, of course :)
<NathanKell>
(We don't have homemade cookies, tho.)
<SlainteMaith>
I never asked if you were in the biz!
<NathanKell>
I worked on KSP for a couple years, then most of us left and got hired by Valve
<SlainteMaith>
Mmm... Beverage.
<SlainteMaith>
Which, of course, you can't say what you're working on.
<NathanKell>
Came to KSP straight from modding it (and modding most of the stuff you tested, as I mentioned :P )
<NathanKell>
Yeah :\
<NathanKell>
It's cool tho :)
<NathanKell>
Very, very cool. Well, we think so.
<SlainteMaith>
Nice. I never had a desire to program--it always sounds more interesting than actually doing it--which I find tedious.
<NathanKell>
guess I'm lucky to enjoy it then ^_^
<NathanKell>
Speaking of, tho--gotta run alas :( Colleague's holding a cookout for the 4th, and they have the best food
<NathanKell>
But quick before I go--
<SlainteMaith>
I just really really REALLY want another portal. =)
<NathanKell>
on the RO front, if you want to help out, you have *no* idea (well, ok, as a former tester you do have an idea) how helpful rigorous testing would be for it
<NathanKell>
Don't we all :]
<SlainteMaith>
That's the trick--planes--I -get- planes. Rockets are...well. Rocket science.
<SlainteMaith>
And Kerbal is design as much as flight.
<NathanKell>
ferram4 poke
<SlainteMaith>
I'll do my best.
<ferram4>
Yes?
<soundnfury>
oh man, I spent *far* too much of my life playing Civ...
<NathanKell>
Someone needs to care about planes in RO, so don't worry if that's your métier :)
<SlainteMaith>
When I popped into this IRC chat, I -did- notice that there's some serious mod-making power in here.
<soundnfury>
heck, Civ 3 was what got me started writing Harris
<NathanKell>
Yeah, there's the RO contirbutors, and FAR, and Sarbs for the lolz, and taniwha, and... :D
<ferram4>
Mostly that means, "we require research and data" and also I don't know if the AJE stuff is correct.
<NathanKell>
anyway, gotta go, see you soon!
<SlainteMaith>
Yourself.
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|AFK
<SlainteMaith>
Take care! Nice meeting you!
<SlainteMaith>
What's an AJE?
<soundnfury>
SlainteMaith: Advanced Jet Engine
<ferram4>
Advanced Jet Engine. Sims the jet engine stuff for us. Also includes handling propeller engines.
<SlainteMaith>
Oh. Gotcha.
<SlainteMaith>
Well... I'm more of a flight test guy, not so much design/programming.
<SlainteMaith>
So if there are things you need broken, I can totally do that.
<ferram4>
Ah.
<ferram4>
Well. Test ALL THE THINGS
<SlainteMaith>
At once?
<ferram4>
We can't do that ourselves. There's too much going on.
<ferram4>
Yes.
<ferram4>
Build a giant unholy Amero-Russo-Euro-Chinese-Japanese launch vehicle with a stupid number of engines and fuel types and see what happens.
<SlainteMaith>
I have issues enough getting a titan into orbit, much less the orbit I want it to get into. And the way KSP handles joysticks is unconscionable.
<SlainteMaith>
Well. Either that or the way I design my planes sucks.
<ferram4>
Titan has no margin though.
<ferram4>
A little more dV makes it a lot easier.
<SlainteMaith>
I'm discovering that. This is what I'm getting at. I played Orbiter--which is all well and good if you want to pilot stuff. KSP is a totally different animal--and that's just the base software. What you lot are doing with RO--first off, it's amazing--but it's also a completely different level of game. I'm still learning it--and I'm just starting out.
<SlainteMaith>
Because KSP is about design as much as it is about piloting and navigation.
<ferram4>
...you're jumping into RO right after getting the game?
<ferram4>
Oh my. You're brave.
<SlainteMaith>
And even with an Orbiter background and a testing the old Microprose flight sims--I still feel like a blundering idiot.
<SlainteMaith>
Oh no. I have over 2000 hours of KSP time. I'm starting RO now, though. And having some teething issues. =)
<ferram4>
Ah. How many times did you forget ullage so far? :P
<ferram4>
Or the ability to control roll? :P
<SlainteMaith>
I'm still mucking about with Atlas and Titan, so no ullage issues yet. =) I did, earlier, switch here to chat while forgetting I had to hot-stage manually. So that didn't go so well...
<SlainteMaith>
Ullage was a thing even in Orbiter--at least it was modeled on some of the crafts even if it wasn't specifically needed. I knew the importance of it. =)
<ferram4>
It's important. But you forget when you have to manually add the ullage motors.
<ferram4>
Or to tweak them so they have low thrust, lasting a few seconds so you can actually get the damn thing lit.
<SlainteMaith>
This is why I'm not afraid of standing on the shoulders of giants and downloading preassembled .craft files. Because I'm not a masochist.
<ferram4>
Hmm... do you have SSTU installed?
<SlainteMaith>
One step at a time. I need to redo my install, I think. I'm missing some key chunks like build time, test, etc...
<ferram4>
Ah, right. All the RP-0 stuff.
<soundnfury>
ferram4: I sometimes deliberately build LVs without any roll control.
<SlainteMaith>
I know Tyler Raiz has an install guide for RO, not sure if it includes the RP-0 stuff.
<soundnfury>
It's not always necessary, and verniers cost :P
<ferram4>
Eh, yeah, getting the install together can be a pain.
<SlainteMaith>
And the modding community seems to have a love/hate relationship with CKAN.
<ferram4>
Well, not exactly.
<ferram4>
SOme people love it.
<ferram4>
SOme people hate it.
<ferram4>
Not exactly what's meant by a love/hate relationship. :P
<SlainteMaith>
Semantics. =) Anyway I suppose I should put together a proper install. Is there a more recent guide available than what's on the wiki?
<ferram4>
I don't believe so.
<ferram4>
I think the official line is, "use CKAN, and check to make sure it didn't fuck up"
<SlainteMaith>
Sound advice. =)
<SlainteMaith>
To answer the question you asked minutes ago--yes, SSTU is installed. At least the directory is there.
<ferram4>
Test US SSTU 4 is probably much easier to fly.
<SlainteMaith>
I'll give them a go.
<xShadowx>
wonder if its worth RO/RP-0 making a single zip for the "basic install" ? not practical to do for all the other supported shiz, but might help remove some of the install issues?:|
<ferram4>
License issues.
<ferram4>
Mods in the zip becoming out of date.
<ferram4>
Lots of bad things can happen with that
<xShadowx>
the outdated bit i can understand, but just core stuff that every install req, someone watches and update the zip, shouldnt be too much and id even watch em :| always forget the license bit though
<SlainteMaith>
Seems there's a couple SSTU engines I'm missing? *boggles*
<SlainteMaith>
AJ-10 Custom Mid and SC ENG F1.
<SlainteMaith>
I suspect I was minimalistic with my engine additions.
<ferram4>
Quite possibly. I just copied them all over.
<SlainteMaith>
Ah. Seems my SSTU install wasn't complete--like the dir was there and some stray files probably to fulfill some other requirement. Issue fixed.
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<SlainteMaith>
4 was missing part 'liquid engine.' I wouldn't know where to look for that.
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<SlainteMaith>
Hey CobaltWolf.
<CobaltWolf>
y0
<SlainteMaith>
Sorry. It's Michael Davidson from FB--I was talking to you last week and yesterday about your BlueDog addons.
<SlainteMaith>
I was asking about IVAs for them and you'd said they weren't really planned. But then I popped back in to the capsules--and the Kane appears to have MFDs in it already. Were those a pain to add?
<CobaltWolf>
oh snap, that's you?
<SlainteMaith>
Yeppers. =)
<SlainteMaith>
The old MicroProse guy.
<CobaltWolf>
let me shoot you a link to my discord, me and a lot of other modders hang there too
<SlainteMaith>
Nathan Kell suggested I pop over here because I'm trying to learn RO stuff. So here I am.
<CobaltWolf>
yeah no ours is just general modding and shitposting
<CobaltWolf>
anyways, IVAs
<CobaltWolf>
so, those weren't ours. All the IVAs were taken from other mods (in that case, the old K-P0110 IVA though I tinhk someone DID make an MFD version)... The mercury was taken from the original mod that model was from, those were donated to me back when I started
<SlainteMaith>
Gotcha!
<SlainteMaith>
If I knew how to plop the ASET stuff in, I'd totally do it. Wouldn't even have to look pretty. An MFD or two and some action group switches. Done and done.
<CobaltWolf>
HOW ARE WE SO BLESSED TO HAVE THIS MAN
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<blowfish>
evening
<Qboid>
blowfish: taniwha left a message for you in #RO [04.07.2017 22:22:04]: "possibly launch clamps built away from KSC (using EL). I don't remember the conditions now"
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<Pap>
o/
<Bornholio>
burn any fingers pap
<Pap>
No, I don't partake in fireworks, I just enjoy the BBQ
<Bornholio>
still possible
<Pap>
true, but no, fingers are good and both days the food turned out great
<Bornholio>
I am mosquito ridden and singed
<Bornholio>
good and good
<Pap>
I somehow avoided mosquitos as well, but it helps that we didn't actually watch any fireworks at night because my daughter needed to be in bed
<Bornholio>
my question for you is what for the nuclear stuff would you like overhauled for your branch? Mod wise or stock or is ther e any other place you want a bit of help?
<Pap>
I have not had time to look at what you have done already, but do you think it fleshes out the NTR line?
<Bornholio>
right now ro has four ntr configs and you have 7+ techs
<Pap>
Didn't your recent additions add to those configs?
<Bornholio>
there are 12 mod ntr's of various models i can include, and i have 17 historical versions complely fleshed out stat wise
<Pap>
ah, gotcha
<github>
[RP-0] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to Pap-TechTree: https://git.io/vQ2vn
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<xShadowx>
.......theres a diff between afk and away?:|
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<lamont>
Call of Duty: West Seattle
<xShadowx>
lamont: heh neighbor couple houses down mustve had something automated, mortars kept spamming the air fast for like 10 min o.O
<lamont>
get yourself a Phalanx CIWS
<lamont>
or a C-RAM
<xShadowx>
i got away from spending $ up in smoke b/c neighbors always seem to do em, nd theres tv
<xShadowx>
but am kinda tempted to setup an arduino to fire em off......
<lamont>
crazy, i might have working 2-stage PEG now
<lamont>
heh well sorta
<lamont>
well most of the numbers are making sense other than the important one
<lamont>
yeah i think there’s still one number that isn’t getting computed right, it behaves better as the booster burns down and that error goes closer to zero
<acharles>
lamont: haha
<acharles>
lamont: Is it on github?
<lamont>
yeah its pushed
<acharles>
looking
<acharles>
if only cause I’m curious
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<acharles>
I’m looking at peg_update. Why would num_stages being 0, mean you have 1 stage?
<lamont>
it doesn’t
<lamont>
its highly awful code
<acharles>
The interesting thing is that the paper provides flow charts for the actual simulation code that they did. I’m somewhat surprised how hard it is to turn that into code, directly.
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn lamont
* Qboid
gives lamont a radioactive pulse generator with a Durandal attachment
<lamont>
it is dense and very hard to actually read
<acharles>
You’re telling me.
<acharles>
It doesn’t help that some of their calculations are in feet per second.
<acharles>
or well, all of them
<lamont>
units don’t matter
<acharles>
It does for constants
<acharles>
like g = 32.14
<lamont>
not really
<acharles>
32.174
<lamont>
the numbers are different but the formula are identical
<acharles>
sure, tell that to the mars rover that failed :P
<lamont>
F = ma doesn’t care if you’re in furlongs per fortnight or m/s
<lamont>
that was a mismatch
<lamont>
if half your code is in metric and half in imperial then you’re screwed
<NCommander>
SOmeone poked me but the backscroll went away
<NCommander>
ugh
<riocrokite>
hehe it's interesting to see RO chat much more active and on topic than KSPOfficial :)
<NCommander>
lamont, just like the Mars Climate Orbiter
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] PhineasFreak opened pull request #1694: [Maintenance] RS-68 global engine config (master...RO-RS-68-global-config-updates) https://git.io/vQ243
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<taniwha>
!tell blowfish possibly. I'll do some testing
<Qboid>
taniwha: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
taniwha: blowfish left a message for you in #RO [05.07.2017 04:54:12]: "if it was moved to OnStartFinished do you think that would fix it?"
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<NCommander>
So how do I put ComSatBus on my satelites?
<NCommander>
and secondly, why is the VAB/SPH upgradable? Doesn't seem like there's a point
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<Bornholio>
comsat bus only in fuselage early
<Bornholio>
VAB gives you additional build slots and higher build rates
<NCommander>
What exactly does the comsat bus do? I'm used to stock RT but it's obviously been tweaked
<Bornholio>
comsat bus is a contract resource
<Bornholio>
only fills need for contracts, same for eathersat bus
<Bornholio>
weather
<NCommander>
hCool, thanks
* NCommander
is semi-debating posting some of his flights to Reddit but meh
<Bornholio>
I do what did you do in KSP today thread myself.
* NCommander
isn't even sure he has a forums account
<NCommander>
I may attempt the first Sun Synchronious orbit contract. I've gotten a probe into polar orbit with excess dV, but I'm concerned about how much control I have
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<Bornholio>
it can be a bit hard, I usually have a bit of rcs to steer and a healthy amount as an engine on a sat. doesn't really work until NOx thrusters are available though
<NCommander>
Bornholio, I have NOX thrusters
<NCommander>
Used that to move my polar probe into the correct orbit because the AJ-10 failed just after achieving orbit
* NCommander
ended up in 400x100
<NCommander>
Had to RCS that to 300x400
<Bornholio>
what is your contract requirement
<Bornholio>
oh and if you have fuel you cant' burn dump it
<NCommander>
Sun Syncho orbit. Orbit of 300k and eccentricty of 0.02 to 0.04
<NCommander>
Bornholio, I need to install TAC fuel balancer to do that
<NCommander>
I'm actually not even sure what the Ap of this orbit needs to be
<NCommander>
actually, that's pretty much just a 300x300ish orbit
* NCommander
SHOULD be able to muster that
<Bornholio>
.02 with PE of 300k is sma of 350k, 400k apish
<Theysen>
you can dump with Ship Manifest
<NCommander>
Don't think I have that either
<NCommander>
I do wish there was a way to disable avionics once they go up
<NCommander>
I do have SM
<Bornholio>
think its a dep.
<Bornholio>
you can turn off some avionics
<Bornholio>
not maned pods for sure
<NCommander>
Not on the early ones, and I need to haul that into orbit though so I can correct into the right orbit
<Theysen>
the Agena and Early Controllable Core can be disabled
<Theysen>
nothing before that
<NCommander>
yeah, those haven't unlocked yet
<NCommander>
They're still researching
<egg|work|egg>
NCommander: question re. RT2, is it just a rendering issue, or are the visibility checks incorrect as well? I would assume the latter, since the ground station positions should come from the same source for both?
<egg|work|egg>
NCommander: also, you're NCommander on both github and the fora? (so I can mention/credit you properly in issues and changelogs)
<NCommander>
egg|work|egg, I'm NCommander on github as well
<Pap>
o/
<Pap>
NCommander: I think I was the one that pinged you
<NCommander>
egg|work|egg, as far as I can tell, it's just a rendering issue, the probe was properly loosing LoS as it moved through it's orbit.
<Pap>
Thanks for the note on the Atmosphere Sat, it has been fixed
<NCommander>
egg|work|egg, granted, it might have been loosing at the wrong points of its orbit. I'd have to get a calculator out and work out where it should and shouldn't have LoC to see if it was actually working properly
<NCommander>
This mission is a test seeing how accurately I can put things in orbit
* egg|work|egg
perturbs NCommander with Лидов–古在
<NCommander>
egg|work|egg, I need to maintain orbit for two minutes. Princia can't destroy me that quickly
* NCommander
took it out for the time being though
<egg|work|egg>
Лидов–古在 takes ages tbh
<egg|work|egg>
J2 you can readily see
<egg|work|egg>
but the importance of 3rd-body effects on Earth orbits is a bit overhyped in KSP circles
<NCommander>
egg|work|egg, more specifically, it's more effected in stock due to mun being at 0 inclination.
<egg|work|egg>
(but then again in KSP circles everyone knows an n-body mod would be impossible because you'd need a supercomputer :-p)
<egg|work|egg>
NCommander: and the mun being close
<NCommander>
And Kerbin made of osmium
<egg|work|egg>
nah, osmium is way too light :-p
<NCommander>
I thought someone figured out osmium was dense enough.
<egg|work|egg>
NCommander: re your compilation issue, this seems very weird, might be a libc++ bug?
<egg|work|egg>
it might fail to *be* convertible, but failing to instantiate is_convertible seems wrong
<NCommander>
egg|work|egg, I'm likely using a new clang than what Ubuntu shipped with.
<NCommander>
And Clang historically gets stricter on what it's STL will accept every release
<egg|work|egg>
NCommander: so are we, but the question is more the libc++
<NCommander>
It's possible
<egg|work|egg>
not sure which version you're on, or which one we're on for that matter
<NCommander>
[IP-] [ ] sys-libs/libcxx-3.9.1:0
<egg|work|egg>
hm
<Pap>
egg|work|egg: Is there a significant slow down using Principia because of the extra calculations?
<egg|work|egg>
Pap: at high warp somewhat, in map view a bit (from the stupid rendering that doesn't downsample, not from n-body calculation costs) but we're working on the latter
<NCommander>
egg|work|egg, the other thing with Principia, when I pass into a different SoI (which I realize only exists for contracts), in the planner, I can't see what my closest approach is.
<NCommander>
Unless I missed it
<egg|work|egg>
NCommander: you can, switch to a reference frame that fixes the body you're interested in
<egg|work|egg>
principia does not know or care about SoIs, you set the frame yourself
<egg|work|egg>
NCommander: or did I misunderstand what you meant by see your closest approach?+
<egg|work|egg>
s/$//
<Qboid>
egg|work|egg meant to say: NCommander: or did I misunderstand what you meant by see your closest approach?+
<egg|work|egg>
uh
<egg|work|egg>
I meant s/.$//
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<egg|work|egg>
!wpn Technicalfool
* Qboid
gives Technicalfool a nilpotent type
<egg|work|egg>
!wpn NCommander
* Qboid
gives NCommander a boaty katana/cotter pin hybrid
<Technicalfool>
o_o
<NCommander>
egg|work|egg, the Ap marker wasn't showing up but I guess I was in the wrong frame
* NCommander
is trying to save this mission
<NCommander>
I came up very short in my orbit, 400x-50
<NCommander>
I managed to RCS into 500x100, now I'm going to aerobrake once around to bring my AP back and see if I can circuaize
Thomas|AWAY is now known as Thomas
<NCommander>
Regardless, this mission was a success even if I fail to get it into the right orbit
* NCommander
got new science
* NCommander
feels like he's flying an AOA
<egg|work|egg>
NCommander: as described in the concepts page, the apsides wrt a body are only shown if you're in a frame fixing that body, which means that you only get apsides wrt at most one body (possibly none, as is the case in the EMB frame).
<Bornholio>
i hate tankbut shrouds from the bottom of my soul now
<Bornholio>
and vens for using them
<NCommander>
Bornholio, tankbut shrouds?
<Bornholio>
the conic shroud on top of the engine attaching it to the tank above
<Bornholio>
vens disables a bunch of stock stuff indiscriminately, so i can't use that, and if i use the vens i can't turn off the stupid shrouds
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I just made myself so happy :D
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
I cannot select the Space Shuttle runway from Real KSC/Kerbal Konstructs for launching planes, so... I just moved it so close that it doesn't make a difference :P http://i.imgur.com/dRODzX7.jpg
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<Bornholio>
lol
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
just launched a prop and a turbojet from it, no problems whatsoever, no ground chasms
<Bornholio>
its very yellow
<Theysen>
LOL
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
it is, but not as yellow as the firey hell from explodey planes on the KSC runway
<Theysen>
^
<Theysen>
which is a god damn shame
<CobaltWolf>
mornin
<Bornholio>
hey
<Bornholio>
H_S needs a moat to keep away the pigs
<NCommander>
It's so hot my PC is overheating :(
<Theysen>
and btw thanks NK for putting us back into the nuclear arms race though you're 50 years late and nobody gains anything out of it unlike manned spaceflight and space era in general
<Theysen>
where NK is North Korea and not our glorious leader lol
<Bornholio>
Kim Dong Illin'?
<Bornholio>
ooh they can launch a rocket "Up" , thats pretty high, can they raise a PE though?
<Theysen>
do they need to?
<Theysen>
just aim lower and nuke something
<Theysen>
gg
<xShadowx>
Theysen: but they have cures for everything like aids and shortness! and they have a unicorn lair!
<Theysen>
the only thing they do is propell themselves into doom with the loss of probably the whole country's population -.-
<Maxsimal>
I don't think we'll ever be in an arms race with them, unless we're planning to go back to SDI
<Theysen>
Nah of course not, that was not the thing I tried to express, it's more or less single sided for them
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<egg|work|egg>
!wpn stratochief
* Qboid
gives stratochief a restricted infimum
<stratochief>
!tell NathanKel* you like square-ish formats, right? then you should consider seeing Dunkirk in IMAX: https://i.redd.it/tngv3tc6gn7z.jpg
<Qboid>
stratochief: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Bornholio>
My Korean relatives think its all not funny. But when you can see artillery positions from your house it might make sense.
<stratochief>
a !wpn that will live in infimum
<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* I am watching your TTT Twitch from yesterday, you got that Venus Atmosphere Contract about 6 hours before I fixed it!
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<stratochief>
Bornholio: yeah, not much about north korea is funny. I'm extremely curous how much evidence we have that those NK artillary pieces are in working order, with working ammo and trained crew
<Bornholio>
they do well enough to hit a couple of years back
<Bornholio>
and chemical weapons make them a lot more dangerous than they first appear
<stratochief>
right. but to launch a serious artillary campaign, you need lots of functional pieces, lots of units of ammo. is there a chemical/bio weapon NK is known to have that modern gasmasks don't pretect against?
<Bornholio>
300k dead civillians is the us estimate for first day
<stratochief>
I'd like to imagine that the UN or US/China would sit around a table within the year and broker a path to unwind NK without major damage to Seoul, without a huge refugee problem, without the US/west gaining mass control over the NK zone
<Pap>
stratochief: That is some imaginiging that belongs in a fiction book
<stratochief>
Bornholio: sure, but I imagine the error bars on that estimate are really damn wide. I'd be interested to see the paper that shows how they arrie at that estimate though, see what assumptions they officially make
<Theysen>
don't think they wai so long, probably next missile test and it's showtime
<xShadowx>
Theysen: the middle east bits that keeps trying to 'poke the beehive' (the US) is a one-sided fight too, just because they're small and lack tech, doesnt mean they won't go pokin :P
<stratochief>
Pap: well, it is the best way forward, so.... (and war is over, if we believe in it and act towards it, you know, hippy stuff)
<stratochief>
Theysen: NK has no incentive to act first strike. or do you mean US going and doing unilateral stuff?
<stratochief>
anyway, off to pick up some alt-history fiction at the library :)
<Theysen>
stratochief, who guarantees NK isn't just crazy and pulls the trigger?
<Theysen>
I wouldn't even wonder if it turns out like everything which happened during the past years with negative consequences. Because everyone always warned about it, nobody took precautionary actions and just reacted to do damage control.
<Theysen>
*would* have never thought it could happen. yeah, open your eyes and welcome to the 201x's
<xShadowx>
if we act first, people get whiny, if we let em hit a couple of battleships or towers first we can play the victim :P
<Theysen>
inb4 battleship is San Francisco and towers are people in SoCal and couple are NK's next iteration of NK's nuclear missiles
<Theysen>
of course it seems unlikely, but what didn't in when it first started? anyways o/
* Theysen
is off for a bike ride
<NCommander>
Bornholio, love your cross wing/shuttle landing runway
<NCommander>
*cross wind
<Bornholio>
.poke different target
<stratochief>
Theysen: self interest? pulling a nuclear trigger is the one guarenteed way for Kim to end his own life, and we know that cheese gobbling cartoon character likes his own life
<xShadowx>
stratochief: but hes a god, gods dont die
<xShadowx>
so it all comes down to how much he believes in his own propaganda ;p
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<CobaltWolf>
that's what I always worry about
<Pap>
I would hazard the guess that he believes his own propaganda, no one is offering objections or counter points, it is why Hitler thought he would roll the Soviet Union in 2 months
<stratochief>
at least xShadowx used a :p, Pap
<Pap>
Too sad and scary for emojis
<stratochief>
I'd expect that Kimmy BooBoo knows 'gods' die, since his dad and granddad died. also he knows that he poops, even if the propo says he doesn't. he knows he hasn't flown to the moon single handedly, even if the propo says he did. he even knon that golfers don't always hit holes in one, if he knows a little about golf or has tried putting once.
<Bornholio>
anyone have a reasonable way to use vens engine models and get the tankbutts to turn off?
<Theysen>
actually in RO the top node which creates the butt should be disabled by default
<Theysen>
which engine
<Bornholio>
the one used by NERVA I
<Theysen>
ewwww nuclear
<Theysen>
^ just triggering stratochief
<Theysen>
Bornholio, will test later
<Bornholio>
what RO config would do the removal, if i can find that i could make it work
<stratochief>
*triggered* meltdown immenent. clear Bavaria, please
<Pap>
Bornholio: I jsut did some digging through the CFG files. There are a lot of "fixes" for the Vens Engine Models I'll send a note to ask NK as he did many of them
<Pap>
!tell NathanKell* Bornholio is looking for some help on removing the tankbutts on the Ven's NERVA models. I see that you did a lot of VSR changes to get the models to work. Any enlightenment?
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Theysen>
stratochief, had a nice talk with Phineas Freak, RSSVE will get one last update for 1.2.2 which fixes some nasty bugs wid the current one :)
<stratochief>
Theysen: nice! when might that be released? I might be able to carve out some time on saturday to book up KSP with that (if it is out then)
<Theysen>
I think soon™, he found a fix for the flickering at 100km iirc and made some other little QOL changes like nondisappearing clouds and then getting the whole layer a few meters later
<regex>
Oh sweet
<Theysen>
he made those for 1.3 but we came to a conclusion that it might be needed right now and is actually put to better use as we will have 1.2.2 for some longer. Knowing him I could swear we get it in an instant
<Theysen>
The flickering seemed to be caused by camera near and far definitions, which PingoPete changed in his RVE and he dug those out again
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<Theysen>
stratochief,regex, for the flickering issues, these lines you can copy into your current rssve_global.cfg I suppose to get it working correct
<Theysen>
but as I said, I believe we get the RC soon
<regex>
Oh, does that fix the strange square box that appears on my fairings sometimes?
<regex>
Because that's about the most annoying thing I can think of because it ruins screenshots
<Theysen>
I dont know
<Theysen>
it fixes the bending on the horizon and the transition at 100km afaict
<Theysen>
didn't test yet
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<stratochief>
Theysen: thanks!
* NCommander
is failing to accomplish things today :/
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<Theysen>
Pap, does your tech tree work with 1.3 in stock and the updated dependencies? (I know it should, just making sure)
<stratochief>
NCommander: I haven't done anything I personally think was worth doing, but my bosses may disagree with me
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<regex>
How are we looking for 1.3? Still in beta?
<blowfish>
I have not released RF or AJE for 1.3 yet
<Qboid>
blowfish: taniwha left a message for you in #RO [05.07.2017 10:23:03]: "possibly. I'll do some testing"
<regex>
So we got a ways, cool.
<Theysen>
regex, next to no effort so far
<blowfish>
although I could do so quickly if need be
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<blowfish>
AJE doesn't require any changes as far as I can tell, all the RF work is done
<blowfish>
FAR has dev versions
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<regex>
Yeah, I'm not champing at the bit or anything, just wondering.
<Bornholio>
Goldenspreadsheettime
<Theysen>
not sure about that, almost any mod crashed 1.3 during startup which wasn't recompiled. No idea if Realism SSuite mods work
<Theysen>
and Pap, should I disable stock contracts with your Career Progression?
<Theysen>
bleh your config actually disable them but doesn't seem so in 1.3, I'll see myself a workaroudn
<acharles>
Theysen: You should. There’s only one group that isn’t disabled and that’s an oversight
<Theysen>
acharles, his cc file states DisableWorldFirsts but I get them all
<Theysen>
I guess that changed in 1.3 or sp
<acharles>
Ah
<acharles>
is it a CC bug?
<Theysen>
No idea, the stock conctracts don't show up in the GUI
<acharles>
You just get the funds, etc?
<Theysen>
* in the conctract configurator GUI
<acharles>
Oh.
<Theysen>
Maybe Pap knows more or its one more gift of that glorious localization
<acharles>
My main experience with CC is that nightengale is pretty responsive with issues. :P
<Theysen>
I'll wait for Pap :)
<acharles>
I like localization in 1.3 and as far as business sense, it’s an obvious choice. But then again, I would’ve liked some more quality of life things, like a delta-v readout.
<acharles>
Or KAC… why isn’t that stock yet?
<Theysen>
you have warp to manoeuver node :^)
<regex>
stock is stupid
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<acharles>
My main PC is sitting in my apartment, which doesn’t have power and I’m temporarily in another apartment with my laptop. I’d at least be willing to play KSP if it had delta-v readouts, but it’s a mac and I honestly can’t be bothered to figure out how to run ckan or manually install all the mods.
<acharles>
Another mod I wish they had in stock is the one that colors the tanks/engines/etc different colors based on diameter.
<blowfish>
CKAN's runs on OS X, but the GUI doesn't really work very well
<blowfish>
mono issue IIRC
<NathanKell|WORK>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell|WORK: stratochief left a message for you in #RO [05.07.2017 14:15:30]: "you like square-ish formats, right? then you should consider seeing Dunkirk in IMAX: https://i.redd.it/tngv3tc6gn7z.jpg"
<Qboid>
NathanKell|WORK: Pap left a message for you in #RO [05.07.2017 14:16:03]: "I am watching your TTT Twitch from yesterday, you got that Venus Atmosphere Contract about 6 hours before I fixed it!"
<Qboid>
NathanKell|WORK: Pap left a message for you in #RO [05.07.2017 15:52:39]: "Bornholio is looking for some help on removing the tankbutts on the Ven's NERVA models. I see that you did a lot of VSR changes to get the models to work. Any enlightenment?"
<NathanKell|WORK>
stratochief: Saw a preview of it when we saw Wonder Woman. Or rather, I saw some Spitfire porn masquerading as a preview.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: Hah, just in time! :D
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap, Bornholio Ven had the bad habit of making even the buttless models have butts, sadly.
<Bornholio>
hours of frustration so far
<NathanKell|WORK>
check and see if the base part (in the VSR folder) has a ModuleJettison
<NathanKell|WORK>
if it doesn't, and there's only one MODEL node, you're stuck with the butt, sorry
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<stratochief>
NathanKell|WORK: yeah, I'm not sure about the movie itself, but the aspect ratio reminded me of your love for 4:3 monitors :)
<stratochief>
NathanKell|WORK: by the way, how was Wonder Woman?
<NathanKell|WORK>
stratochief: Heh, yeah. :) And Wonder Woman was quite good! I broadly managed to divorce myself from any knowledge of history (which was necessary to enjoy it :P ) and it was a fun little movie
<NathanKell|WORK>
It was pretty much exactly what you'd want out of a superhero movie
<blowfish>
oh right, Ven's 4x nuke actually has the end of a tank modeled into it
<blowfish>
even the engines that don't have tankbutts often have mounting rings that are larger than they need to be
<Bornholio>
yeah i can't see anything to get a refernce name for it either
<NathanKell|WORK>
blowfish: Yeah :\
<NathanKell|WORK>
It's (*#%@ annoying. Sadly CobaltWolf is also guilty of this :P
<Bornholio>
should i poke Ven to get the information?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ven's not really around
<NathanKell|WORK>
you can try tho
<blowfish>
for the nuke at least, I can take a look at the model and see how hard it would be to just disable the transform
<Bornholio>
its a really good model otherwise. but what i really want is the ability to size nozzle seperate from powerplant
<blowfish>
not sure if there's a module that does that already but it would be a trivial number of lines of code
<Bornholio>
that would be cool
<regex>
tankbuttes are a cancer on this game
<regex>
at least the expansion is trying to remove them.
<NathanKell|WORK>
orly?
<regex>
well, provide options
<regex>
two different meshes for their RD-10x model
<regex>
Too bad it's pretty much amateur hour but what did you expect from stock?
<NathanKell|WORK>
JPLRepo: Please tell me at least you and Dave get DragCubes and won't let Bob destroy them again.
<NathanKell|WORK>
He doesn't understand them, and is liable to make a module that breaks them again.
<regex>
Did he try to destroy them before?
<regex>
This reminds me of the anecdote about heat with the ISRU gear...
<NathanKell|WORK>
I believe I spoke in the devnotes about rewriting ModuleDeployablePart to play nice with dragcubes.
<regex>
jesus... I'm just gonn alock my version on 1.2.2 because damn
<blowfish>
I thought ModuleDeployablePart just implemented IMultipleDragCubes ... was I wrong?
<CobaltWolf>
NathanKell|WORK: you talking smack?
<NathanKell|WORK>
blowfish: It does now :P
<blowfish>
oh heh
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: I trust Jamie and Dave to do right. So I'm not so worried, as long as Bob is kept in parts :P
<NathanKell|WORK>
blowfish: Bob didn't know that interface _existed_, IIRC.
<regex>
Hey, I replace the models anyway, code is what's important
<blowfish>
it looks like for Ven's nuke, it would be possible to remove the tank part but not the structural adapter below it
<blowfish>
at least not without modifying the model
<blowfish>
(this is the 4x nuke)
<blowfish>
Kerbal Atomics has RO configs right? Nertea made a nice variety of nuclear engine models
<CobaltWolf>
oh, whoops NathanKell|WORK was asking about your comment to me
<NathanKell|WORK>
CobaltWolf: Yeah, about tankbutts
<NathanKell|WORK>
I hate them and I cannot lie
<regex>
^^^
<CobaltWolf>
Most of my engines don't
<NathanKell|WORK>
The 89/105 don't have them yeah
<Bornholio>
yes and i'll use the KA models in my work
<CobaltWolf>
most of the newer ones
<blowfish>
I think many of Nertea's nukes still have mounting rings but they're usually not much larger than the nozzle
<NathanKell|WORK>
but a number of other BDB ones do, so I excised them >.>
<regex>
Also, Sir Mix A Lot apparently drives theh I-5 in Oregon.
<NathanKell|WORK>
hah!
<CobaltWolf>
off the top of my head, Thor, Agena, Apollo SPS...
<NathanKell|WORK>
have or don't have?
<CobaltWolf>
have
<CobaltWolf>
only ones I can think of
<CobaltWolf>
oh
<CobaltWolf>
Titan engines
<CobaltWolf>
all of them
<Bornholio>
blowfish realisticly i wanted to limit most of the NTR work i'm doing to use stock engine thus vens since its dep of RP-0 and steals the model from stock
<regex>
CobaltWolf, you have an Agena engine without tankbutte? I had to not use the SSTU one because the bottom attach node is like five feet off the engine bell for some reason.
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: the SSTU ones are fine
<NathanKell|WORK>
I'm using them
<CobaltWolf>
regex: isn't that an incredibly easy fix?
<blowfish>
regex: sounds like a config issue
<blowfish>
also offset
<CobaltWolf>
what does the SSTU Agena look like?
<NathanKell|WORK>
I had no problems in RIS
<blowfish>
CobaltWolf: just the engine
<regex>
Yes, offset works great when you're trying to align the procedural interstage to the tank and it keeps removing the offset you set.
<regex>
I'll probably have to update. It's not a problem, the engine attaches fine, but the bottom node is off the bell. It makes all my rockets taller.
<NathanKell|WORK>
I'm using the last 1.2.2 release of SSTU (before the 1.3 releases) and not having that problem AFAIK
<regex>
Then it's probably fixed by an update.
<Pap>
regex: the bottom node isn't really designed to be used, the SSTU parts are designed to be used with interstage fairings (IMO)
<regex>
Another issue I've had with the SSTU stuff is the colliders are massive, but that's probably because of the base. Nothing I can't get around, just bothersome.
<NathanKell|WORK>
yeah, that's annoying I agree
<regex>
Pap, so how am I supposed to attach the interstage to the engine?
<blowfish>
I think most of them are cylindrical yeah
<regex>
Like some SSTU magic or some shit?
<Pap>
No, to the tank aboive it
<regex>
fucking hell...
<blowfish>
regex: watched any of NK's builds?
<regex>
No
<regex>
Not gonna lie, I find watching other people play KSP to be incredibly boring.
<blowfish>
may provide you some helpful hints if not using SSTU tanks
<regex>
It's really hard for me to sit through that.
<blowfish>
*shrug* it's hard to explain this stuff via text
<blowfish>
all I can say is use the offset tool
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<blowfish>
(and extra height on the fairings)
<regex>
blowfish, offsert reset when you adjust the interstage fairing
<regex>
so I'll just update SSTU and hope for the best
<regex>
Yes, if I offset the fairing base to adjust for the bottom node being off the 8048 by like five feet, and then I adjust the extra height on the fairing, it pops the fairing base back down to where the node attaches
<blowfish>
I'm talking about move tool here
<NCommander>
regex, I tend to listen to NathanKell|WORK because I tend to learn something
<Bornholio>
weird
<soundnfury>
o/ all
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<regex>
Oh for fucks sake I'm not giving NK shit about his gameplay, I don't watch anyone else either.
<regex>
blowfish I am too.
<blowfish>
I have seen the offset reset on loading occasionally, but not just by changing the extra height
<regex>
if I move the fairing base up to adjust the offset off the node, when I adjust anything on the fairing base it pops back to the node.
<blowfish>
you are attaching to the top (floating) node right?
<blowfish>
(on the interstage fairing base I mean)
<regex>
no, I'm attach to the bottom node of the engine because that's the one I can see.
<regex>
Yes, the top node
<regex>
of the fairing base
<blowfish>
okay, I have never seen the behavior you describe, either in my builds or NK's
<regex>
Alright, I'll make a video.
<blowfish>
at least not with the regularity you seem to imply
<regex>
Last night it was with the SSTU 8048 and the thin fairing base.
<blowfish>
regex: not gonna watch it because I don't like watching other people play KSP :P
<regex>
I'll update SSTU first and see if it persists.
<regex>
alright, well, bug report out the window then
<NathanKell|WORK>
a couple minutes will show what my experience is
<blowfish>
was my sarcasm lost?
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<regex>
no blowfish, I'm just frustrated
<regex>
Is there another node on SSTU engines besides the bottom one?
<blowfish>
nope
<regex>
then I'll probably just have to update.
<Theysen>
regex, got my link=
<Theysen>
that's the right version for 1.2.2
<regex>
i did, thanks.
<blowfish>
be sure p-fairings is up to date too. Not sure if there were any issues fixed there but I don't see how the engine being SSTU would affect this
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: My main question is: is your experience different to the few minutes of video I linked to?
<NathanKell|WORK>
If so, you have something borked
<regex>
I'm used to the node being on the bell for most engines and then adjusting fairing "height" to make it look right, then using "extra height" to mate the fairing with the stage above.
<blowfish>
well that's just an RO config ussue
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ah I thought that was extra height on the base, wasn't watching
<Theysen>
which you can also just procedurally work around with the proc base
<blowfish>
I guess in NK's case that isn't a problem, mainly due to the thickness of the fairing base and the tank end
<NathanKell|WORK>
maybe the node is offset then <shrug>
<regex>
Okay then, I'll get an adjustment install set up for it and fix that.
<regex>
bugs the crap out of me
<blowfish>
issues don't get fixed if no one fixes them ;)
<Theysen>
fair enough
<Theysen>
the plume was also screwed
<regex>
Theysen, no, because using offset tool and then adjusting the fairing base causes the base to snap back to the node.
<Theysen>
Yes I just thought about that
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: yeah, PF kills offsets when it recomputes stuff
<Theysen>
stratochief, regex, NathanKell|WORK Don't actually use the RSSVE fix in 1.2.2, it makes the rocket see through with JUST the kopernicus fixes
* Theysen
notices I tagged NK by accident
<regex>
No worries, I'll adjust the node.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Theysen: not by accident, I was gonna use it until you said that :P
<Theysen>
NathanKell|WORK, yikes. Let's hope Phineas pushes it out soon, his branch with the fixes is for 1.3 only unfortunately atm
<Theysen>
But the intention of the fixes worked great, no more spasms at 100km of altitude and seamless clouds
<NathanKell|WORK>
I dearly wish for such a change, yes
<Theysen>
I wonder why that stuff makes it see through, I suspect it conflicts with the values in scatterer, let me see
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<SlainteMaith>
You never realize how badly you suck at KSP until you try RP-0. =)
<Theysen>
but youre addicted after a few minutes :)
<SlainteMaith>
If I'm honest, I'm doing my first campaign on training wheels. I've upped the monetary/science/reputation rewards by <mumbles something> so I don't, you know, outright lose.
<Pap>
SlainteMaith: that is exactly what you should do, you are in no position to attack it how it was "supposed" to be
<SlainteMaith>
Attack it? Oh no. I like it. I just have to rethink everything now. =)
<SlainteMaith>
And training wheels mode helps me think in those terms.
<regex>
Apparently failures are off in science mode.
<egg>
!wpn NCommander
* Qboid
gives NCommander a progressive formalism
<NCommander>
Why is it that I can build perfectly stable aircraft, and incredibly squirrelly landing gears
<NathanKell|WORK>
make sure the gear are perfectly straight
<NCommander>
Or at least Stable to mach 2.9
<NathanKell|WORK>
and all at the same height
<NCommander>
Then the vechile had a RUD
* NCommander
changes the control authority
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, I disabled steering on the rear wheels and used the SPH floor to make sure they're as level as I can get them
<NathanKell|WORK>
and for rotation?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Set angle snap, hit 3 to go to offset mode, click on a gear, then hit F until it says Absolute mode, then click to rotate them 90deg away then rotate back
<NathanKell|WORK>
that should ensure they are aligned.
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, I'll try that in a moment, seeing if I can prevent my canard from going AFK when in super sonic flight this time
<NathanKell|WORK>
heh
<NCommander>
Seems happier
<NCommander>
But I'm getting supersonic shutter
<NCommander>
Hrm
<Probus>
Does FAR model that? Cool!
<NCommander>
Probus, FAR is stupid on how well it models all the fun of super sonic flight
<NCommander>
Yeah, I run into problems at about Mach 2.1
<NCommander>
And come apart at 2.5, even with all green indicators
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, so I had two front landing gears
<NCommander>
-_-;
<NathanKell|WORK>
HAH
<Probus>
Ha! Never a truer statement SlainteMaith "You never realize how badly you suck at KSP until you try RP-0".
<NCommander>
Honestly, I find RP-0 easier
<NathanKell|WORK>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<NathanKell|WORK>
That
<waerloga>
parts are easier
<NCommander>
1. Less Lag 2. Physics agree w/ reality
<waerloga>
parts are more difficult
<NCommander>
Ulliage isn't that hard nor 100% throttle to orbit
<Probus>
I had to learn how to program in kOS just to get to orbit consistently.
<waerloga>
it depends on how much you know about the physics behind what you are doing and how much stock KSP you play
<NCommander>
Probus, spin stabilization FTW for early payloads
<Probus>
PID loops after that NCommander
<NCommander>
Probus, my biggest problem with kOS is the syntax changes ever version or so
<NathanKell|WORK>
PEG FTW
<NCommander>
I need to install PEG
<Bornholio>
no kidding
<Bornholio>
both
* NCommander
had a really nice 1.1 kOS rover driver
<NCommander>
Broke with 1.2
<waerloga>
"PEG" ?
<waerloga>
I will say I've been tempted to do a kRPC/IVA only run at some point
<Bornholio>
if you say lamont, he gives you crack and you go to orbit
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, that helped considerably. It was still a bit squirrelly, but I have the Tier 2 runway which still looks like isn't 100% level
* NCommander
shoots up to 10k for his next X-Planes test
<NathanKell|WORK>
NCommander: RP-0 should enforce always having the T3 runway....
<NathanKell|WORK>
no matter what logical level it is, visually it should be t3
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, I thought the actual model was the lower levels though
<Bornholio>
Ncommander getting runway teirs doesn't fix the jagged cracks that rip off gear
<NCommander>
Oh
<NCommander>
:(
<lamont>
lol
<NathanKell|WORK>
use the grass for now
<NathanKell|WORK>
it's flat
<Probus>
Runway tech should define width and length, not bumpyness.
<NCommander>
So my crack team of space engineers can send a man into orbit, but can't make a flat runway
* NCommander
thinks something is wrong w/ that picture :)
<lamont>
i got the good orbital crack
<Bornholio>
gets ya high, in orbit or low your pref
<NathanKell|WORK>
JPL fixed it for 1.3, so hopefully we should have that soon. Well, assuming float precision issues don't cause problems
<waerloga>
NCommander: <3 ZLL
<NathanKell|WORK>
ZLL and chutes ftw
<waerloga>
yeah, I can't land a plane in RP0 for anything
<waerloga>
chutes all the way
<egg>
NathanKell|WORK: hmmmm?
<Bornholio>
lamont i was freaking out last night, though PEG was failing then i noticed it gate me the 160km x150km i asked for and didn't re-enter
<NCommander>
floating point math is special
<NCommander>
Ugh
<egg>
NCommander: ping?
* NCommander
spent more years of his life debugging ARM VFP issues
<NCommander>
egg, contentless ping detected
<NathanKell|WORK>
egg: at 6371000 precision is about 0.5, IIRC
* NCommander
launches an ICBM at egg
<NCommander>
It's looking good
<egg>
NCommander: talk of floating point pings me
<NCommander>
ping.0000000007
<NathanKell|WORK>
oh right egg pings on 'precision' or 'floating point'
<NCommander>
Hah
<NCommander>
I think I fixed it
<egg>
that I may summon the wrath of our dark lord Kahan upon those who speak nonsense thereof
<NathanKell|WORK>
\o/
* NCommander
is at 800 m/s and holding steady
* NCommander
accelerates to Mach 3
<egg>
NathanKell|WORK: float, double, floating point, rounding, roundoff, ... they all ping me
<NathanKell|WORK>
....of course they do
<egg>
double misfires quite a bit
<egg>
but it's worth it
<egg>
:-p
<NCommander>
Well that worked right up until I tried to correct pitch
<lamont>
i think i have like 1 more bug to find in 2-stage PEG, it very nearly works but it tries to make up all the angular momentum change with the booster stage so just wants to burn with pich 0
<ferram4>
Temp at low speeds roughly goes with Mach^2
<NCommander>
egg, so on early ARM, the processor was little endian. the FPU was big endian
<NCommander>
You can imagine how much fun that was
<egg>
:D
<lamont>
most of the numbers make sense in the strange world its winding up in, but there’s a constraint or something that is very confused…
<NCommander>
I need a way to adjust pitch authority based on speed
<ferram4>
Check your constants.
<NCommander>
So if I make a minor correction at mach 3
<ferram4>
Check your understanding of what the terms mean.
<NCommander>
I don't accidently break it
<Pap>
NathanKell|WORK: How much of what we would need to do for 1.3 would just require us to re-compile?
<lamont>
that’s what i’ve been doing a lot
<lamont>
there’s been a lot of “oooooh, that doesn’t have a subscript, thats a global value…”
<ferram4>
NCommander, activate the DPCR or whatever I called it system. It scales your control input with dynamic pressure.
<egg>
double-double \o/
<egg>
ferram4: I think that's also some sort of burger
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pap: RP-0 has little code, and RO even less. It's up to the dependencies. RSS is ready whenever. RF is good. PP I dunno
<NathanKell|WORK>
PF, KCT, etc--dunno
<lamont>
i thought it was going to be the delta-h computation of the booster directly, but i couldn’t find a bug in that earlier after going through all the math by hand
<NathanKell|WORK>
FAR, there's a 1.3 dev release IIRC but I don't know when it goes gold :P
<egg>
ferram4: but, can you use fused multiply and add to multiply two double burgers to get a double-double with no loss of precision,
<NCommander>
ferram4, didn't know that's a thing, but I <3 you even more for FAR
<ferram4>
NathanKell|WORK, that's slightly delayed pending info on whether the Trajecotires issues are due to Trajectories being retarded or me being retarded. Possibly both.
<regex>
egg, a double-double cheeseburger implies a loss of something onto your plate.
<ferram4>
Ah, yes. We call those tomatoes.
<NCommander>
egg, honestly, whenever I need to do floating point math, at least when I do assembly by hand, I generally try to just do it with integer math then invoke the FPU gods
* NCommander
notes the x87 instruction set is special
<regex>
tomato precision
<egg>
NCommander: x87 is a bit strange, though mostly things get compiled to SSE2 etc. nowadays
<NathanKell|WORK>
ferram4: :)
<NCommander>
egg, I've done a stupid amount of x86 real mode programming
<NCommander>
EMBRACE THE SEGMENT GODS
<egg>
(but then again x87 is the product of our Dark Lord Kahan, so it can't be bad :D)
<acharles>
ferram4: I had trajectories installed in 1.3 and it kept drawing in the flight scene (I’m not saying this cause I think it’s your fault or anything, because FAR wasn’t installed, but Trajectories does seem a bit buggy in 1.3)
<ferram4>
Alright, that's good info, thanks.
<ferram4>
I still want more, it's mostly that I've seen people report NaNs showing up in its sim and that's not something I want to deal with.
<NCommander>
god it's silly when your planes have a TWR of 1
<NCommander>
ferram4, on itanium, integer operations that were non-sense created not a things. Think unholy union between FPU NaNs, and SQL database NULLs
<SlainteMaith>
Should I assume that the first atlas rocket one can build (when the parts become available) with near a ton as payload cannot make it to orbit?
<ferram4>
...but why?
<ferram4>
SlainteMaith, shouldn't that be the Atlas B then? So yeah, that shouldn't be capable I think.
<NCommander>
ferram4, because Itanium is special.
<ferram4>
NathanKell|WORK, do we have the configs for Atlas B, or do we just assume that we jump straight to Atlas D and run with it?
<regex>
I didn't think Atlas by itself could get payload to orbit.
<NCommander>
ferram4, it has near and far pointers like x86_16, no absolute addressing moon, two stacks that have to be tracked through frame counting (the primary and the registering packing cache), and operates three opcodes in a single cycle that have to be bundled
<egg>
(yes we like citations)
<acharles>
NCommander: itanium only did that so that compilers could explicitly speculatively execute instructions and only have them trap if that branch was taken and the result was used.
<egg>
also isn't NewtonDelambreStørmerVerletLeapfrog a cute identifier :-p
<ferram4>
NCommander, I know barely anything about assembly, and all of this sounds wtf to me.
<NCommander>
acharles, I think half the problem with Itanium compilers was the instruction set was such a mindfuck that no one could write a half decent compiler. GCC tended to use the opcode-nop-nop bundle a LOT
<SlainteMaith>
Fair enough. I don't feel so moronic, then. I kept thinking, "Okay, that's just -not- enough delta vee."
<NCommander>
ferram4, that's how I feel about the math that goes into FAR :)
* NCommander
is seeing how fast he can go before his plane RUDs
<ferram4>
SlainteMaith, the dV is probably not going to get much better. If I'm right though, you just need slightly more thrust.
<NCommander>
DCPR works great BTW
<SlainteMaith>
I know the atlas staging makes the numbers a bit trickier, but even so: Not enough dv. =)
<egg>
<NCommander> ferram4, that's how I feel about the math that goes into FAR :) <<< and not about Principia? :'/
<NCommander>
egg, I haven't looked ath principia's code
<NCommander>
I looked at FAR's awhile ago out of curosity
<NCommander>
My brain melted
<egg>
see the above links for a taste :-p
<ferram4>
The inner machinations of my mod are an enigma.
* NCommander
failed nearly math class he took in college
<regex>
Join the club
<egg>
ferram4: mine just involve both fancy numerics for the calculations and fancy algebra for the structures :D
<ferram4>
NCommander, if you want, I can throw the paper a lot of the simpler things are derived from.
<ferram4>
s/paper/long-ass USAF doc
<Qboid>
ferram4 meant to say: NCommander, if you want, I can throw the long-ass USAF doc a lot of the simpler things are derived from.
<acharles>
NCommander: The itanium was an attempt to change the relationship between the processor and compilers, mostly to take advantage of the fact that computers have more memory/disk space and therefore CISC architectures weren’t obviously better anymore. The idea makes sense. Have a simple instruction set and let compilers do more optimizations, since compilers can change more easily than processor microcode can change.
<NCommander>
damn
<NCommander>
Looks like Mach 3.5 is the limit
<NCommander>
The engine starts overheating past that point
* NCommander
needs a precooler I bet
<Pap>
ferram4: we have the configs for Atlas A and Atlas B, we just added them a few weeks ago for the TT Build
<NCommander>
but I'm holding stable at 3.5
<acharles>
NCommander: The only issue is that compiler writers didn’t write good enough compilers before the market gave up on the experiment.
<ferram4>
Pap: Cool. SlainteMaith: So there's your answer, you need additional thrust, I think.
<NCommander>
Interesting, Test Flight doesn't seem to be tracking my aircraft
<ferram4>
Later configs should make it be doable.
<NCommander>
DOes it not kick in for atmo flight?
<ferram4>
It needs configs for each engine.
<ferram4>
I don't believe most of the jet engines have configs.
<NathanKell|WORK>
NCommander: engine type?
<NathanKell|WORK>
And yeah, TF isn't enabled for jets
<NCommander>
J58-P-4
<NathanKell|WORK>
they'd need their own set of failures
<NathanKell|WORK>
NCommander: Ah, wow, you're *deep* in the aero tree
<ferram4>
> Uncontained turbine failure ftw
<NCommander>
NathanKell|WORK, I like airplanes :)
<ferram4>
Most Kerbal of jet engine failures.
<NathanKell|WORK>
NCommander: :) You and SlainteMaith
<NCommander>
RSS/RP-0 actually make super sonic flight mean something
<NCommander>
Since you're basically going to space once you hit Mach 3 in KSP
<regex>
SPEISPLAIN
<ferram4>
SPHESSSSS
<NCommander>
What I'm probably going to do after upgrading the runway one more time is make a supersonic long range jet and try to circle the planet stopping at every launch site
<Bornholio>
only one launch site exists
<regex>
I never got around to trying real-time switching...
<egg>
spesseplaine
<NathanKell|WORK>
IIRC the J58 isn't modeled quite right anymore because AJE no longer handles changing compressor ratios
<SlainteMaith>
Thanks!
<regex>
might seriously bork itself, who knows.
<NCommander>
actually, this might reach Wallops on its current fuel load
<NathanKell|WORK>
it would involve rebuilding the PQS
<SlainteMaith>
Sorry. I had to go afk to make a margarita.
<NCommander>
I'm 8 minutes since wheels up and I'm already half way across georgia
<regex>
NathanKell|WORK yeah, I know.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Was saying to NCommander
<SlainteMaith>
I determined I was far too sober for the game.
<regex>
Oh, my bad. That's just one of the reasons I never bothered trying
<NathanKell|WORK>
yeah, I'm not sure what would happen if you rebuilt the PQS under you while you were in flight
<regex>
RO drunk is one of my favorite pasttimes what I haven't engaged in for some time.
<NCommander>
oh, so only one launch site physically exists on the map
<regex>
yes
<SlainteMaith>
I'd ask how your day at Valve was going, NathanKell, but of course you cannot talk about it. (We MPS guys loved Half Life back in the day--that's what was new and all the rage when I worked there. Yep. That long ago)
<NCommander>
and when I switch it, it disappears?
<regex>
yes
<regex>
it moves to the new site
<regex>
KSCSwitcher isn't like ...
<regex>
whatever that mod is
<NathanKell|WORK>
Kerbal Konstructs
<regex>
it's kind of a hack to move teh KSC around I made back in the day.
<regex>
Thanks
<NathanKell|WORK>
SlainteMaith: $REDACTED is going well, thanks! :)
<NCommander>
would be nice if we could add some easter eggs to Earth with PQS
* NCommander
decelerates and tests launding
<regex>
We probably could.
<NCommander>
s/launding/landing
<Qboid>
NCommander meant to say: /me decelerates and tests landing
<NathanKell|WORK>
back in ~40, o/
<NCommander>
Well I flew from KSC to North Carolina in about 12 minutes
<soundnfury>
there, my konrad-based transfer planner is working
<NCommander>
God this thing has a stupid glid ratio
<Bornholio>
too much heat on your rocket makes it hard to keep in the pocket
<regex>
WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT SORCERY?
<regex>
That's awesome.
<ferram4>
Yes, FAR's greatest weakness is that it lacks really good subsonic modelling and seems to produce too high a glide ratio for most everything.
<soundnfury>
regex: which?
<NCommander>
ferram4, part of me wished that it also supported density. I'd love to drop a nuclear sub into jupiter and have it start floating about half way down :)
<regex>
soundnfury konrad.
<regex>
that's rad
<ferram4>
Buoyancy?
<regex>
on so many levels
<ferram4>
Sorry, I'm in fluid dynamics, not fluid statics.
<soundnfury>
regex: :) :)
<SlainteMaith>
So it looks like I'll be winging an upper stage for my Atlas. Whee! Not to get all Jeremy Clarkson, but How Hard Could It Be, and What Could Possibly Go Wrong?
<ferram4>
Totally different.
<NCommander>
ferram4, well, kinda? I was referring to the xkcd/Scott Manley things on the topic
<ferram4>
Absolutely different. :P
* NCommander
crashed because I forgot to pause before chatting
<NCommander>
but I went 1000 km in 14 minutes
<NCommander>
Yay
<ferram4>
Getting it done right would be interesting to try. I mean, it is a significant force for large enough things.
<NCommander>
ferram4, no more air intake floaties!
<SlainteMaith>
NCommander: I did that yesterday testing a Titan. Did you know that if you're manually staging, you need to pay attention to the KSP window and not be chatting?
<NCommander>
SlainteMaith, well I usually have atmospheric autopilot installed
<NCommander>
which does a better job than SAS when gliding
<ferram4>
SlainteMaith, you could make a Vega upper stage.
<regex>
did that in-game IRC clinet go by the wayside?
<SlainteMaith>
I ...uh. Didn't have that option.
<egg>
NCommander: float?
<SlainteMaith>
ferram: Please forgive my ignorance. What's a vega upper stage.
* NCommander
discovered if he pauses the game in KRASH, SM still dumps fuel
<SlainteMaith>
I really enjoy being the dumbest person in this room. Means I learn lots of new stuff.
<ferram4>
SlainteMaith, btw, b14643.de is a great place for rocket info and diagrams.
<NCommander>
Yeah
<NCommander>
I need ballast
<ferram4>
Guarantee that if you come up with a design, you will probably find something close to it somewhere in there.
<NCommander>
It's unstable with no gas
<SlainteMaith>
<this is a joke> .de?! Oh, like Germans know anything about rockets. =)
<NCommander>
SlainteMaith, germans were the first person to send a man made object into space
<ferram4>
DOn
<Bornholio>
what is the contract path to manned orbitalnow?
<ferram4>
Don't worry, most of it is in english.
<SlainteMaith>
That's ...why I prefaced that comment with "this is a joke."
<ferram4>
Also, lots of information on how Atlas's specifics are set up
<ferram4>
And differentiating different versions of each engine type.
* NCommander
is trying to figure out why he lost stability at zip fuel
<NCommander>
oh
<NCommander>
UI wasn't updating right
* NCommander
adds some ballast to the cockpit
<SlainteMaith>
ferram4, Thanks for the site--I've since bookmarked it. I expect it will be useful in my RP-0 endeavors.
<NCommander>
That should do it
<NCommander>
CoM stays ahead of CoL with both empty and full tanks
<NCommander>
Might be slightly squirrelly completely empty but should be controllable
<SlainteMaith>
ferram4, I didn't, however, get the second craft you sent me yesterday to recognize all the parts. There was a 'liquidfuel engine' that the '4' was using that didn't show up in my parts list.
* NCommander
loves whatever mod lets me add lead ballast
<ferram4>
That's one of the stock engines. :P
<ferram4>
Which gets configured as an LR-105
<ferram4>
But fortunately one without a giant tankbutt like the one from FASA
* NCommander
remembers when the NERV used oxizider
<SlainteMaith>
Well it seems my install fails to recognize it.
<ferram4>
Hmm....
<ferram4>
Strange.
<ferram4>
Did you clear out the stock parts?
<ferram4>
Not install Ven's Stock Revamp?
<SlainteMaith>
I installed Ven's, yes.
<Bornholio>
Need a MJ utility to manage stages called CAT so we can have PEG + CAT
<SlainteMaith>
And I'm -pretty- sure I didn't clear out the stock parts.
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<SlainteMaith>
As an unrelated question: Regarding Construction Time: Is there any drawback to just sitting and advancing to the next <insert thing you're waiting for here> or are there behind-the-scenes drawbacks to being too idle?
<soundnfury>
SlainteMaith: no drawback, just that you might want to get things done as early as possible to prove how awesome you are
<SlainteMaith>
soundnfury: Ha! scant chance of -that- happening!
<NCommander>
SlainteMaith, only draw back is launch windows can come and go faster than you expect
<SlainteMaith>
Gotcha. That's a different program, no? The alarm clock?
<Pap>
Bornholio: First Flight, Karman Line (uncrewed), First Satellite, Suborbital Return, Orbital Return, Orbit
<Bornholio>
thanks Pap
<SlainteMaith>
Only I was thinking regarding the Construction Time mod that maybe there should be a mode that -did- reduce funds over time. Wages, building maintenance, etc...
<acharles>
SlainteMaith: That reminds me of the 2014 congressional appropriations committee hearing on the EELV program and competition between Space X and ULA. :P
<SlainteMaith>
We're going for realism, right?
<acharles>
SlainteMaith: Mostly because it would be like the ‘subsidy’ given to ULA that’s used to assure readiness for launch whenever a payload is made available.
<acharles>
Granted, KSP is more like NASA than it is like the NRO/USAF/etc
<Bornholio>
what does your space program represent? its not just a company or nasa , its an amalgam of all those things
<SlainteMaith>
Sure. But since you can swap launch sites with a single click, who says it has to be? =)
<Rokker>
acharles: ikr? it's disgusting
<Pap>
Rokker: USAF no longer can haz into space
<Rokker>
Pap: lies
<Rokker>
the space corp will fail and they will reintegrate
<Rokker>
I know it
* NCommander
tries to get the remainder of the kinks out of his X-3
<Pap>
NCommander: screenshots or it didn't happen
<Rokker>
NCommander: I love the Stiletto
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<Rokker>
Pap: did i eventually show u my pics from Sunday or no?
<Pap>
Oh yeah, those were awesome
<Rokker>
I couldn't remember
<Rokker>
Pap: first time seeing a most of the naval planes I saw
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<NCommander>
Pap, right now I'm trying to get to fly well at subsonic speeds
<acharles>
Bornholio: I usually have my space program in KSP represent something like what Space X does.
B787_Work is now known as B787_300
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<Rokker>
NCommander: are you gonna try to hit mach 2 or give up at low mach 1 like they did
<NCommander>
Rokker, the plane can reach Mach 3.5
<NCommander>
Rokker, landing it again is proving the hard part
<NCommander>
It's not stable in subsonic flight but I think I got it worked out now
<NCommander>
I really need to invest in a flight stick
<NCommander>
Flying with the keyboard makes me :(
<NCommander>
ferram4, does FAR accurately handle ground effect?
* NathanKell|WORK
ducks
<ferram4>
No, not currently.
<Bornholio>
air gets pretty thick underwater :)
<NathanKell|WORK>
SlainteMaith: I would very much like to charge upkeep. RP-0 is designed under the assumption that each 'upgrade point' in KCT represents facilities and staff (mostly staff)
<NathanKell|WORK>
so you should get charged upkeep
<NathanKell|WORK>
but you don't, yet
<NCommander>
ah
* NCommander
discovered for this plane, it REALLY hates dead stick landings
<NathanKell|WORK>
ah, Vega reminds me, I need to add that 405H config to the XLR50.
<Rokker>
NCommander: ahhh I thought you meant an X-3 replica
<acharles>
NathanKell|WORK: I think the contracts would have to pay better (or perhaps just more consistently) for upkeep to be viable. (At least for average KSP players)
<NathanKell|WORK>
I agree
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<NCommander>
Rokker, I've been doing X-speed of sound :)
* NCommander
admits it's not historically right but it amuses me
* NCommander
tilts his wings slightly
<acharles>
NathanKell|WORK: Sweet, we agree on something! :P
<regex>
How much delta-V should Agena A have with 850kg payload?
<NCommander>
god damn it
* NCommander
had his plane load IN the runway
<NCommander>
and pop into the air
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<SlainteMaith_>
Yowch. I just had a particularly nasty, pound-me-in-the-ass crash while using proc. fairings.
<SlainteMaith_>
I wonder if I can repeat it.
* NCommander
is having a bad case of ground phobic aircraft
<SlainteMaith_>
Is Proc. Fairings still being worked on?
<SlainteMaith_>
I should think that would be preferable to groundphilic aircraft.
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: probably something like 4km/sec? No real idea
<regex>
I'm looking it up, thanks
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<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: 5km/sec
<regex>
Agena A?
<regex>
That seems pretty high for a 2 minute burn...
<NathanKell|WORK>
Oh crap
<NathanKell|WORK>
Agena A
<NathanKell|WORK>
thought I read Agena B
<NathanKell|WORK>
I don't have dry/wet for A to hand
<regex>
well, for one, Agena-A came before Ablestar
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ah wait no
<SlainteMaith_>
Yeah. If he were still developing it, I'd try to nail it down and be useful, but the fact is I was working on something else...
<NathanKell|WORK>
Didn't quite achieve orbit IIRC
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: Yes, but Agena A should still beat it
<regex>
And it's not, yeah
<NathanKell|WORK>
Hustler was the high performer, Ablestar the low-end (but restartable) one
<regex>
I can probably slim the stage down but the film return capsule vehicle should be 140kg and there is literally no way I can do that with the available parts.
<NathanKell|WORK>
You're trying to absolutely repro? Because you can make a rather lighter bucket
<NathanKell|WORK>
20in xray, chute, and the 0.625m shield
<NCommander>
ugh
<NCommander>
physics is not cooperating
* NCommander
should record this
<schnobs>
how about control?
<regex>
NathanKell|WORK, so I need to transfer experiments...
<NCommander>
Oh
* NCommander
MIGHT know what happened
<NCommander>
I don't think I repositioned the gear after I tilted the wings
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: Oh my yes
<NathanKell|WORK>
schnobs: Control?
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: KH-1 did for sure
<schnobs>
IME, stuff gets burned before you have enough drag for it to turn heatshield-down.
<NathanKell|WORK>
that's why they're called film buckets
<NathanKell|WORK>
schnobs: that's why you orient before decouple
<regex>
The camera is literally called "Film Return Camera"
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: Yeah, because it's the camera for Film Return missions
<NathanKell|WORK>
not Camera Return missions :P
* NCommander
waits for the Satelite return mission
<leudaimon>
the 20in xray is not a science container, is it?
<regex>
uhg...
<regex>
fuck
<NathanKell|WORK>
oh dang, right leudaimon
<NathanKell|WORK>
yeah, you need at least ~70kg for the bucket, because the early controllable core is 50kg
<NathanKell|WORK>
dang, forgot that
<leudaimon>
about cameras, I think it a little baffling there is no actual digital camera in RP-0 without DMagic
<leudaimon>
they have been around since the 70s, haven't them?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Yeah, we need more and better science instruments
<schnobs>
leudaimon: it's partly for lack of a suitable model
<leudaimon>
there is a telescope in DMagic
<leudaimon>
it is not exactly beautiful, but it looks like a camera at least
<NCommander>
hey I'm flying
<NCommander>
yay
<NCommander>
leudaimon, Marianer 3/4 were the first digital cameras in space
<leudaimon>
also the magnetometer, with the extending part, is pretty nice
<schnobs>
also, science spree. You're not supposed to cash in for film retunr AND digital trasmission of the same view.
<NathanKell|WORK>
meh, I'm ok with that, if the digital camera doesn't come about until the 70s
<leudaimon>
well, it could be the same experiment, transmitable in one part and only recoverable in the other?
<NathanKell|WORK>
yes, I *think* that can be done in the MODULE rather than the science def
<leudaimon>
(is this even possible?)
<schnobs>
The old science lab had a mechanism to boost transmission value.
<schnobs>
Has this been completely removed, or is it merely unused at present?
<schnobs>
If it's still there, it would be a way for the same experimet to have different trasmission values.
<NathanKell|WORK>
no, that was 100% hax and broke too much
<NathanKell|WORK>
it's all gone now
<schnobs>
Would probably need clearly labelled transmitters, too.
<NCommander>
my plane got bounced and flipped over
<blowfish>
press x to flip plane
<leudaimon>
man, did you guys watch the JPL special about 20years of pathfinder?
<leudaimon>
the simulations they show from the time look KSP in the 90s
<SlainteMaith_>
Grrr. Did you know that on some decouplers, there's "decouple stage" and "decouple stage?" And that it doesn't say WHICH part it decouples? And that if you click the wrong one, things go badly?
<leudaimon>
well, ISS experiments are repeating experiments you could do on earth and reproduce in low G... but I agree the idea of having a science payload resource you take into the station and process there for science would make most sense
* NCommander
puts his plane on the launchpad
<SlainteMaith_>
I think I might have to reenable 'revert flight' until I know what I'm doing. I just cannot be this masochistic anymore.
<leudaimon>
revert is your friend
<leudaimon>
when you stop making mistakes there will still be bugs and hiccups ruining your game for you
<regex>
Okay cool, getting about 4km/s out of the Agena A with a reconfigured film return setup
<NathanKell|WORK>
SlainteMaith_: which part has two?
<regex>
9.5km/s space on the whole vehicle, I think I /might/ be able to make orbit.
<SlainteMaith_>
NathanKell|WORK Thanks for asking! SSTU-GEN-FR-W
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: high liftoff TWR should make that easy
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<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, does ro or realheat or any of the ro related mods change the default max temp or max skin temp or parts that don't explicitly set it
<NathanKell|WORK>
SlainteMaith_: What is that part exactly? Not familiar with anything SSTU except the engines
<regex>
1.41 SLT
<regex>
I think it'll make it.
<NathanKell|WORK>
Raidernick: No, but DRE might?
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: HAHAHAHA
<NathanKell|WORK>
Easily
<NathanKell|WORK>
You might even make polar
<leudaimon>
btw, NathanKell|WORK I'm watching this video and remembered... in the reentry from my lunar orbit I decided to decouple the lunar heat shield just to see how it works (at a speed below 1km/s) and in one time the heatshield returned to the capsule and it exploded, and the other time it separated ok, but the parachute and LS tank I had above the capsule exploded automatically... any idea what causes this?
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, should dre still be installed by default with RO?
<NathanKell|WORK>
leudaimon: nope, no real idea without seeing it myself, it'd depend on what temp the parts already were
<NathanKell|WORK>
Raidernick: yes
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, any particular reason?
<Raidernick>
does it actually do anything anymore?
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<SlainteMaith_>
NathanKell|WORK SC-GEN-FR-W.cfg. It lives under SSTU/Parts/ShipCore/General/Fairings
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<NCommander>
I'm probably going to give up on this for now
<leudaimon>
that was weird, because things were pretty cool already, but no problem, I had designed everything to keep the Heatshield (its decouple doesn't even show in staging), just thought it was a weird behavior
<blowfish>
SlainteMaith_: I think NK is asking for a description of the actual part since the name of the cfg isn't enough
<SlainteMaith_>
Right, but I gave the dir location of it.
<blowfish>
which says what about the part and what it does?
<blowfish>
what's the title of the part in the editor? Let's start with that
<SlainteMaith_>
Sadly, in the VAB, what I first gave -is- the name of the part.
<blowfish>
that is definitely not the entire name
<SlainteMaith_>
It's under 'payload' and it's a wide payload fairing.
<blowfish>
"SSTU - SC-GEN - FR-W - Payload Fairing (Wide)" is what I was looking for
<blowfish>
you can see that, right?
<blowfish>
or does the text get cut off?
<SlainteMaith_>
Seriously? I gave that, only on -my- screen it's FR-W..."
<SlainteMaith_>
So yes, it gets cuts off unless I mouse over the actual part.
<SlainteMaith_>
Only I found the part in the code--where it lives in the dir structure--which I'd think would be more useful?
<blowfish>
okay, didn't realize it was so long, sorry
<blowfish>
but yeah "wide payload fairing" would have been a useful description I guess
<SlainteMaith_>
I'd love to have given that, only I had "W..." =)
<regex>
hrm... It seems TestFlight DOES work in science mode.
<blowfish>
are the events both decouple? One should be decouple and one should be deploy
<SlainteMaith_>
Most certainly both were decouple.
<blowfish>
odd
<NathanKell|WORK>
SlainteMaith_: But I'm at work, so I can't look at my folders :]
<blowfish>
does it have nodes for procedural fairings or does it use the stock fairing module?
<NathanKell|WORK>
SlainteMaith_: Do you have "procedural fairings for everything"
<NathanKell|WORK>
err, the answer to blowfish will answer me
<stratochief>
SlainteMaith_: I saw you talking Atlas in the backchat. you're dropping the boosters for Atlas, right?
<SlainteMaith_>
I believe it's "Procedural nodes for everything."
<SlainteMaith_>
I created a small craft that repeats the bug.
<SlainteMaith_>
Oh yes, dropping boosters a little after two minutes in.
<NathanKell|WORK>
SlainteMaith_: What's "Procedural nodes for everything" ? There's a mod called Procedural Fairings for Everything (PFFE) which replaces all other fairing code with ProcFairings fairing code
<NathanKell|WORK>
It applies to the SSTU fairings too.
<NathanKell|WORK>
If you have it, then that SSTU base will use ProcFairing code
<NathanKell|WORK>
If you don't, then it will use whatever code SSTU does originally
<NathanKell|WORK>
(probably the stock KSP fairing code)
<SlainteMaith_>
NathanKell|WORK: I believe it's "Procedural nodes for everything." [19:01] <SlainteMaith_> I created a small craft that repeats the bug.
<SlainteMaith_>
stratochief: Oh yes, dropping boosters a little after two minutes in.
<stratochief>
SlainteMaith_: when I use the FASA Atlas D, I can get it to orbit. I think that uses the -5 engine versions, but it is possibly the -3 ones. that gets a ~1.5T mercury payload to orbit
<regex>
1500x133 "orbit"
<regex>
not bad.
<SlainteMaith_>
So I have Procedural Fairings and Procedural Fairings for everything.
<NathanKell|WORK>
ok
<NathanKell|WORK>
So yeah, it's running proc fairings code
<SlainteMaith_>
Should I only have one?
<NathanKell|WORK>
nope, both
<NathanKell|WORK>
PFFE depends on PF
<SlainteMaith_>
Fair enough.
<SlainteMaith_>
My career isn't that far advanced yet--I'm using the initial Atlasy bits one can get.
<stratochief>
regex: mostly in space, most of the time
<SlainteMaith_>
I did come close with a proper second stage on top, but then I decoupled the wrong bit of rocket and it all went biscuit-shaped.
<regex>
stratochief it's better than Discovery 14 did.
<regex>
IIRC, that was like, what, 116x500?
<regex>
or was what I read in miles?
<regex>
fucking hate imperial measurements.
<stratochief>
regex: not sure what that is. I know Discovery, the "catch film buckets with planes" madness
<regex>
Yeah, that'
<regex>
s what I was trying to do, Thor/Agena A
<NathanKell|WORK>
regex: km, I think.
<NathanKell|WORK>
CORONA missions were *low*
<blowfish>
NathanKell|WORK - where does PFFE even touch SSTU? I can't find any SSTU references or global patches
<NathanKell|WORK>
stratochief: "Discoverer" was the public name for the KH-1 (CORONA) missions
<acharles>
Their Brownsville drone ship will be named “Third Time’s The Charm”
<blowfish>
it does have two ModuleDecouple s
<soundnfury>
NathanKell|WORK: there's no barge today. Sat is too heavy :/
<NathanKell|WORK>
SlainteMaith_: Aha!
<soundnfury>
also, it's a ship not a barge :P
<NathanKell|WORK>
soundnfury: Ah...
<NathanKell|WORK>
SlainteMaith_: Yep, two decouple modules there! I think it's probably either RO or PFFE adding a decouple module for all fairing bases, and not knowing that SSTU's bases already have them
<NathanKell|WORK>
good find!
<SlainteMaith_>
Thanks. =)
<Bornholio>
someone call them up and tell them m/s not km/h
<leudaimon>
^
<NathanKell|WORK>
Note that both options will do the same thing, so it doesn't cause anything but a visual bug I think?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Bornholio: YES
<SlainteMaith_>
Only...
<SlainteMaith_>
Now I need to go through -all- of them and see if it's doing the same. =)
<Bornholio>
SI units dammit USE THEM
<blowfish>
Bornholio: they did that in a couple of the technical broadcasts, they may have stopped
<blowfish>
stopped the technical broadcasts that is
<acharles>
NathanKell|WORK: Can’t you detect that there’s already a config node before adding another one?
<NathanKell|WORK>
SlainteMaith_: It will only be doing it to the SSTU bases, and there's only one, I think.
<NathanKell|WORK>
acharles: exactly yes.
<NathanKell|WORK>
that's the fix
<SlainteMaith_>
Nathankell I'm not so sure about that. They might do different decouples--either 'top' or bottom?
<acharles>
I mean, software is good at doing that sort of thing :P
<NathanKell|WORK>
SlainteMaith_: In the file you sent, they both say top
<NathanKell|WORK>
acharles: MM especially
<NathanKell|WORK>
the issue is finding whether it's RO or PFFE that does the patch
<Bornholio>
they still do the best viewer support. even the russians are upping their game a little bit
<leudaimon>
but makes me think who is their target by using km/h
<acharles>
At least they aren’t using m/h
<acharles>
miles/h, that is
<NathanKell|WORK>
fps is the rocket equivalent...
<leudaimon>
I definitely prefer that to imperial units, but it's weird considering they are an american company
<blowfish>
whatever is adding the second one is after KOS but before AFTER[RealismOverhaul]
<blowfish>
or wait no it's in or after AFTER[RealismOverhaul[
<acharles>
Their target is obviously non-rocket people who are impressed by large numbers. :P
<blowfish>
bleh, can't type
<NathanKell|WORK>
blowfish PFFE then
<Bornholio>
he was very happy, glad for him, rough 4 days
<NathanKell|WORK>
Pretty sure I made the patch, I just forget what mod I put it in :P