<ThisDay>
July 25: In 1958, NOTS Pilot possibly launches a satellite into orbit after deployment from an F4D Skyray. In 1973, the USSR launches Mars 5 which will operate successfully in martian orbit for a few days before failing.
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<Pap>
Raidernick: yes, it is a question mark
<xShadowx>
i thought space was _ and ? is wildcard1digit
<xShadowx>
or i wrong?:3
<Pap>
Not when reading part names I know
<borntosleep>
? is wildcard 1
<xShadowx>
^ i know that much is true
<xShadowx>
so just a matter of _ is space or not
<Pap>
Ah, I guess that makes sense, I have used ? since it worked for space as well
<borntosleep>
spece is ignored for a few things, and _ is not
<borntosleep>
though i'd take pap's word as justice :)
<Pap>
^^ not always the best idea ;)
borntosleep is now known as Bornholio
<Pap>
Slept in today, huh Bornholio? ;)
<Bornholio>
just now attention to pay to IRCS
<Bornholio>
no
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<Ramh5>
I just made a 20t to orbit using 7 RL10, it seems a little exessive but I did not find an alternative since I don't have the J-2 yet
<Starwaster>
any PEG news?
<ProjectThoth>
Ramh5: Saturn I_irl
<xShadowx>
!seen stratochief
<Qboid>
xShadowx: I last saw stratochief on [24.07.2017 17:40:08] in #SpaceX saying: "how about that ITS downscale to 9m. I'm curious how long the regulars in this channel knew about that before elon's tweet"
<xShadowx>
er
<stratochief>
vat?
<NathanKell|WORK>
xShadowx: _ is _
<NathanKell|WORK>
(AFAIK)
<NathanKell|WORK>
because confignode strips spaces in node names (but not values), while you obviously can do `foo = bar baz` you can't do `@PART[bar baz]:FOR....` because confignode stops parsing at the space.
<NathanKell|WORK>
That's why you need to use wildcards to cover spaces.
<NathanKell|WORK>
17:45] <ProjectThoth> Ramh5: Saturn I_irl <<< no, viRL
<NathanKell|WORK>
:P
<ProjectThoth>
NathanKell|WORK: hehe
<xShadowx>
ya i get it, i just thought _ was space or _, i was wrong, sue me :P
<NathanKell|WORK>
^_^
<xShadowx>
_ seems like it should count as space or _ though, because ? is purely wildcard and open >:)
<Ramh5>
NathanKell|WORK: wow you are right I didnt know, I am glad I made something reasonable, will be my first manned moon orbit
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, are model node rotations in quaternions or degrees?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Raidernick: Degrees
<NathanKell|WORK>
Ramh5: cool, good luck! :)
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, so if i want to spin a part around to face backwards it's rotation = 0,0,180?
<Raidernick>
or rotation = 0,180,0
<NathanKell|WORK>
the second
<NathanKell|WORK>
0,0,180 will rotate 180 on z
<Starwaster>
or better yet stop using spaces in names
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, i always get confused by the fact that unity reverses z and y compared to modeler
<NathanKell|WORK>
yeah...
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<Raidernick>
NathanKell|AWAY, weird that it didn't work
* xShadowx
nomz dried blueberries
NathanKell|AWAY is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<Pap>
o/
<xShadowx>
welcome to time away from work! where you share all your secrets and goodies! :P jk
<taniwha>
Raidernick: silly thing is (afaict) unity doesn't /force/ that because I'm pretty sure the physics engine doesn't care, and the axis swap can be moved into the camera transform
<taniwha>
Unity defaults to left-handed because the graphics hardware and gl libraries are essentially left handed (y up, z forward (depth/z buffer)), but as a counter example, quake (and thus quakeforge) is right-handed right up to the shaders (just a bit of fancy matrix transformation in the shaders)
<taniwha>
also, OpenGL (and probably DirectX) lets you tell the hardware what vertex order to use for determining face orientation
<ferram4>
NathanKell, so, as usual, I can't focus on just one project and now I'm working out what would be necessary to get proc engines working.
<NathanKell>
:)
<ferram4>
I think the worst part will be trying to figure out the power needed by the turbine.
<ferram4>
And the fuel and oxidizer that need to be put in there.
<Bornholio>
there is a good CASI from '75 on that topic
<ferram4>
Ignoring the models. I'm sure I can draft someone into that part fairly easily.
<taniwha>
hmm, you're pushing a certain mass at a certain velocity against a certain force (both force and velocity determined by pipe cross-section area)
<taniwha>
P=(1/2?)mvF
<ferram4>
Well, okay. So I can figure out the power for the turbine easily, actually.
<Bornholio>
Centrifugal pumps for rockets19750003130.pdf does a good job of curve fitting versus needed SHP and weight
<ferram4>
Pumps are fairly simple.
<ferram4>
It's calculating back the temp into the turbine, and the temp / pressure on the other side that's difficult.
<ferram4>
Also the composition, since it's a combo of combustion products and fuel / oxidizer excess.
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|Twitch
<ferram4>
Because it should be (massflow_total / dens_total)*(P_pumpExit - P_tank) = (massflow_gasgen * specHeat_gasgenproducts)*(T_turbEntrance - T_turbExit)
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<acharles>
Pap: Bubble sort is usually implemented using swapping the elements. If you copy one element over the other, it would have the behavior you’re seeing.
<Pap>
acharles: would you be able to peek at some code and tell me what I am missing? The code seems clean, but obviosuly it is not working
<acharles>
You’re modifying the name during the swap
<acharles>
I.e. you need to swap the whole thing, not just the name
<Pap>
So I want to check the name and swap the whole thing?
<Pap>
I GOT IT!! Thanks acharles!
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<acharles>
Pap: Cool
<acharles>
I suppose this is one case where abstraction helps. If you have a comparison function for `T` and a swap function for `T`, then you can’t possibly mess up by changing only parts of `T`, since you can’t access those parts. :P
<NathanKell|Twitch>
spec: Pioneer Able was even lighter than the 20in xray, and had the advantage of an Altair under it
NathanKell|Twitch is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
err
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master e2bcb5c pap1723: SSTU Fuel Tank Changes...
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] pap1723 pushed 1 new commit to master: https://git.io/v7q5c
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<SpecimenSpiff>
so it looks like rd-103m might not be my best choice for 1st stage
<NathanKell>
[21:13] <@nathankell> Pioneer Able was even lighter than the 20in xray, and had the advantage of an Altair under it
<NathanKell>
[21:14] <@nathankell> I'm confused why you lack delta V though since (as you saw in the tut) I could do it with an RD-103. What do you have for first stage, I thought you had an LR79?
<leudaimon>
yeah... I miss a really light probe core like vanguard or pioneer in "stock" rp-0
<NathanKell>
Ah
<NathanKell>
RD-103
<NathanKell>
leudaimon: stock RP-0 requires SXT which has the 20in XRay...
<NathanKell>
oh right Vanguard *1*
<NathanKell>
yeah
<NathanKell>
sorry
<leudaimon>
that, yeah
<leudaimon>
but I think I have done lunar launches from an RD-103M
<NathanKell>
I used to
<leudaimon>
IIRC RD103M, AJ10, XASR1 for orbit, and then the sargeants for TLI
<leudaimon>
or even only 2 stages, not sure
<NathanKell>
But after the config changes it's nerfed to reality
<SpecimenSpiff>
booster is giving me 4725m/sec and a twr of 1.35, so that seems fine. then aj10 for 3191m/sec, then 4x1x sergeant for a total of 11271
<leudaimon>
specimenSpiff try a third stage
<NathanKell>
You can try redlining
<NathanKell>
Redlining is more doable now
<NathanKell>
The curve is gentler
<SpecimenSpiff>
by redlining, you mean run the stages 5sec past rated burn time?
<NathanKell>
But leudaimon is righter
<SpecimenSpiff>
I could also
<NathanKell>
No I mean 20+
<SpecimenSpiff>
"cheat" and use the dome tanks for pressure, with my main tank default :)
<NathanKell>
5s is nothing
<SpecimenSpiff>
is that a known bug, btw?
<NathanKell>
Yes it is
<NathanKell>
It was too much work to detect
<blowfish>
well, it means that no one has bothered to rewrite the fuel request logic for RF
<leudaimon>
but your first stage tank is default, right?
<NathanKell>
Honor system
<NathanKell>
Blowfish exactly
<NathanKell>
Blowfish since it requires building our own partsets and discarding invalid tanks
<blowfish>
yeah
<SpecimenSpiff>
yeah, first stage is default, doesnt need pressure, all my others are fuselage
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<SpecimenSpiff>
I guess I can add ullage thrusters and push the burn time. cant risk hotstage if im going to push the engines
* leudaimon
always hotstages
<blowfish>
is the first stage at rated burn time with 1.35 liftoff TWR?
<SpecimenSpiff>
yes
<SpecimenSpiff>
1.52 twr, 1.35 slt
<NathanKell>
Yeah Rd 103 has very low burn time
<blowfish>
it seems like on modern engines you can (IRL) extend the burn time almost indefinitely. Did some technological change happen that allowed that compared to early tech?
<taniwha>
better machining and materials, maybe
<SpecimenSpiff>
hm, +20 sec the first and second stages gained me about 150m/sec. thats not the way to go, apparently
<taniwha>
notice how standard car engines redline at 6krpm or higher now
<taniwha>
but that used to be reserved for racing cars
<taniwha>
also cooling would help with engine life
<Rokker>
NathanKell: my life is a lie
<taniwha>
(modern engines run the propellant around the engine as coolant before feeding it to the combustion chamber)
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|NOMZ
<Rokker>
NathanKell|NOMZ: i didnt know that the B-66 was based on a disgusting carrier aircraft
<taniwha>
I imagine most of the rated burn time came from heat and turbo-pump life-span
<blowfish>
taniwha: that was mostly true of early engines too though
<blowfish>
Pap: I don't think :AFTER[RealismOverhaul]:AFTER[SSTU] will actually work
<Pap>
It is working on my test right now
<blowfish>
which pass does it actually run in though?
<Pap>
Ah, are you saying that as long as I have it as an AFTER[SSTU] it should run after RO anyway?
<blowfish>
yeah
<Pap>
got it, i'll fix it, thanks
<blowfish>
so maybe NEEDS[RealismOverhaul] on the first one
<SpecimenSpiff>
Man, I'd forgotten just how hard it is to do this stuff with early tech
<SpecimenSpiff>
coming up just that *tiny* bit short on orbity
<Pap>
SpecimenSpiff: I keep having engine failures for my Moon Shots
<blowfish>
Pap: technically what I said would not be true if SSTU.dll existed but RealismOverhaul.dll did not, since plugin mods run before non-plugin mods
<blowfish>
but it is in fact the other way around anyway (SSTU's plugin is SSTUTools.dll) so AFTER[SSTU] should be correct here
<Pap>
Ah, very interesting
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<SpecimenSpiff>
Russian engines stronk. Russian engines cheap. Russian engines go boom on pad
<SpecimenSpiff>
wow, then my aj-10 went boom just as I was lighting the 3rd stage
<ProjectThoth>
10/10 irony.
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<SpecimenSpiff>
I have 2k nitrogen on my 2nd stage, and used 15 on that attempt, 12 so far on this one. almost makes me consider rcs on that stage a waste...
<SpecimenSpiff>
damn, ab out 600m/sec short of orbit. 1328 grav losses, 34 steering. not sure where I'm going to find it...
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<Pap>
SpecimenSpiff: what are you trying to orbit with?
<SpecimenSpiff>
rd103m first stage, then an aj-10, then xasr, on top of that I have a 4x1 cluster of sergeants, then a 20in x-ray probe
<SpecimenSpiff>
trying to get into orbit without using the solids, which are my tli stage
<Pap>
o/ all
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<SpecimenSpiff>
lol, I dont have the ability to target the moon and set up a node yet. ok, solar launch for science it is
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<NathanKell>
Rokker: Wait til I tell you about that crazy twin-J79 thing McNamara tried to stick the AF with!
<NathanKell>
Or, you know, the SLUF.
<NathanKell>
SpecimenSpiff: Your gravity losses should not be very high.
<NathanKell>
What kind of ascent are you flying?
<NathanKell>
SpecimenSpiff: Try using PEG with a very high pitch rate, going to 150x150
<Rokker>
NathanKell: yeah yeah yeah but I thought the B-66 was an actual bomber, not some useless navy junk
<NathanKell>
Douglas \o/
<Rokker>
>carrier based
<Rokker>
>strategic bomber
<NathanKell>
>Better than USAF junk
<Rokker>
NathanKell: shoo
<NathanKell>
<3
<Rokker>
NathanKell: im going to indoctrinate you all one by one
<acharles>
I wish MJ didn’t have pid issues with keeping roll stable
<SpecimenSpiff>
damn, I had nvidia record that launch, but it turns out 720p KSP is completely unreadable
<NathanKell|Twitch>
if you have an i5, let alone an i7, you might be fine with software encoding
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<Rokker>
~thisday
<ThisDay>
July 25: In 1958, NOTS Pilot possibly launches a satellite into orbit after deployment from an F4D Skyray. In 1973, the USSR launches Mars 5 which will operate successfully in martian orbit for a few days before failing.
<NathanKell|Twitch>
NOTSnik!
<NathanKell|Twitch>
\o/
<NathanKell|Twitch>
On a Ford!
<NathanKell|Twitch>
I'm tempted to try that in KSP
<Rokker>
NathanKell|Twitch: i hate the navy, but i like to believe the first and 3rd notsniks lived
<NathanKell|Twitch>
:]
<Rokker>
NathanKell|Twitch: tomorrow is GSO day
<Rokker>
NathanKell|Twitch: 54 years since Syncom 2
<NathanKell|Twitch>
\o/
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<Rokker>
NathanKell|Twitch: also 46 years since the best apollo mission
<Rokker>
and 45 years since the only notable contract rockwell ever recieved
* Rokker
hides the clusterfuck that was the B-1 program
<NathanKell|Twitch>
NAR by then so you can count it for NA :P
<Rokker>
yeah
<Rokker>
NathanKell|Twitch: you know what you should do in 2024
<Rokker>
come to dayton. ill give you a tour and then we can watch the eclipse
<NathanKell|Twitch>
:)
<ProjectThoth>
NathanKell|Twitch: Never go to Dayton.
<Rokker>
which passes directly over dayton
<ProjectThoth>
I went there once and died.
<Rokker>
NathanKell|Twitch: can you op me for a sex
<Rokker>
sec
<Rokker>
NathanKell|Twitch: do you know why apollo 15 is the best apollo
<ProjectThoth>
Dayton was... draining.
<Rokker>
ProjectThoth: listen
<ProjectThoth>
It really took the... life out of me.
<Rokker>
ProjectThoth: literally your only bad experience at dayton
<Rokker>
was a bad plate of spaghetti
<Rokker>
and you have been complaining about it ever since
<ProjectThoth>
Rokker: That was literally the sickest I've ever been.
<Rokker>
i dont care
<Rokker>
ProjectThoth: its a shit complaint
<ProjectThoth>
Rokker: It was a shit experience, literally.
<Rokker>
ProjectThoth: ur just a pussy
<ProjectThoth>
Rokker: Your city tried to kill me.
<Rokker>
ProjectThoth: i wish they had with how much you bitch about it
<taniwha>
NathanKell|Twitch: your stream has been cutting out before your speech lately. too fast on the cut button?
NathanKell|Twitch is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
taniwha: I wait 2-3s
<NathanKell>
but I guess I need to go back to waiting 5-10
<NathanKell>
Rokker: I assume it was an all-USAF crew, after the Navy already got all the glory from prior landings? :P
<Rokker>
all USAF, its at my museum, and first lunar rover
<NathanKell>
egg: Cool, I didn't misremember
<NathanKell>
cheers!
<NathanKell>
and cheers all!
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|AWAY
<NathanKell|AWAY>
Rokker: first in space, first in orbit, first on moon, all reported to Dept. of the Navy :)
<Rokker>
NathanKell|AWAY: wasnt armstrong civilian by that point
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<xShadowx>
NathanKell|AWAY: by 'first in orbit' assume you mean earth orbit, but theres also first manned spacecraft to change orbit, gemini 3, with once again, navy
<xShadowx>
go navy :)
<xShadowx>
8 day human spaceflight record gemini 5, navy
<xShadowx>
First orbital rendezvous (station-keeping, no docking) - navy
<xShadowx>
navy is racking up the points, wheres the silly usaf guys hiding
<xShadowx>
first space docking, gemini 8, navy
<Rokker>
ah yeah, the navy, with their... vanguard and their...
<Rokker>
uh
<Rokker>
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
<Rokker>
EELVs? no wait
<Rokker>
hold on, ill think of something
<xShadowx>
aww rokker is trying to insult the navy how cute
<Rokker>
their polaris based orbital launch vehicles?
<Rokker>
no
<Rokker>
trident based?
<xShadowx>
First direct-ascent rendezvous on first orbit - gemini 11, navy
<xShadowx>
seriously i never accually looked before which side they worked for o.O woohoo for learning
<xShadowx>
!tell first man to dance on moon, pete conrad, navy, apollo 12, go navy :P
<Qboid>
xShadowx: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<xShadowx>
uh did usaf get any firsts during 60s? i mightve missed as i went through list, accually sskin
<xShadowx>
askin*
<Rokker>
they were all working for nasa at that point
<Rokker>
ferram4: always check your bullet sizes before you fire them
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<ThisDay>
July 25: In 1958, NOTS Pilot possibly launches a satellite into orbit after deployment from an F4D Skyray. In 1973, the USSR launches Mars 5 which will operate successfully in martian orbit for a few days before failing.
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<Pap>
o/
<Hypergolic_Skunk>
\o\
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<Maxsimal>
o/
<Qboid>
Maxsimal: Pap left a message for you in #RO [24.07.2017 16:14:15]: "Any luck with the Sounding Rocket contracts?"
<Maxsimal>
Pap: You here? I just posted in the Contract Configurator thread again - nightingales been logged in but he hasn't replied, and deleting the parameter checks didn't help. Not sure what else to try
<Maxsimal>
Pap: In good news though, I'm almost done tagging the tech tree sheet
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<Maxsimal>
!tell Pap I just posted in the Contract Configurator thread again - nightingales been logged in but he hasn't replied, and deleting the parameter checks didn't help. Not sure what else to try
<Qboid>
Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Maxsimal>
!tell Pap However, in good news, I just finished tagging that spreadsheet
<Qboid>
Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Maxsimal>
!tell NathanKell: Just finished tagging that spreadsheet, now we need to convert those to part tags and I'll mess with the KCT formulas to find something appropriate.
<Qboid>
Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Qboid>
Pap: Maxsimal left a message for you in #RO [25.07.2017 16:24:55]: " I just posted in the Contract Configurator thread again - nightingales been logged in but he hasn't replied, and deleting the parameter checks didn't help. Not sure what else to try"
<Pap>
Maxsimal: That sucks about CC. I don't know what could be causing it!
<Qboid>
Pap: Maxsimal left a message for you in #RO [25.07.2017 16:25:10]: "However, in good news, I just finished tagging that spreadsheet"
<Pap>
I will take the spreadsheet and create some formulas off it to process the tags
<Pap>
Probably won't be for a day or so
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<Maxsimal>
Pap: No worries
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<Maxsimal>
Pap: I had enough 'fun' tagging that stuff that I don't wanna look at it again for at least a day or two :P
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<Maxsimal>
Pap: I'll go back to the contracts and see if I can think of anything else to try with debugging them. I'm really stumped though.
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<Pap>
!tell Maxsimal Would it be worthwhile to include everything that works, or will it not be working the right way?
<Qboid>
Pap: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<NathanKell|WORK>
Tragically I do not
<NathanKell|WORK>
I closed the notepad window...
<NathanKell|WORK>
errf wrong tab
<egg>
!wpn NathanKell|WORK
* Qboid
gives NathanKell|WORK a white compactification
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<egg>
stops on the 23rd, that's when Cayley came out so then people reached the new link
<Sigma88>
!wpn egg
* Qboid
gives egg a Lagrangian orb
<egg>
Bornholio: previous releases would get ~350ish downloads
<egg>
Cayley got 665 downloads in a couple of days already
<Bornholio>
hopefully the support needs didn't escalate too much
<egg>
for now I actually haven't heard from anyone since the release :-p
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<Maxsimal>
o/
<Qboid>
Maxsimal: Pap left a message for you in #RO [25.07.2017 17:12:18]: "Would it be worthwhile to include everything that works, or will it not be working the right way?"
<Maxsimal>
Pap: I dunno. The sounding rocket(difficult) contract is the one players use to increase the difficulty of future contracts.
<Sigma88>
Pap: out of curiosity, is there a reason why you are editing the planets manually for the rescaled RSS versions ?
<Sigma88>
I mean, instead of using SD
<Pap>
Sigma88: When I did it originally, I wanted to have as few dependencies as possible. I didn't want to be waiting for others to updated, didn't know how much Mod support there would be going forward. For the next releases, I will probably use SD as I don't even play those versions anymore, I am focused on RSS
<Sigma88>
ah ok
<Sigma88>
I just asked because if there was a particular reason to avoid SD it could be something to fix
<Sigma88>
feel free to ping me as much as you want if you decide to try SD, I'm happy to help you with the setting up if you need it
<Pap>
Ah, no, when I originally made Half Size RSS, I don't think you had SD out for very long, so I didn't know what kind of support it was going to have
<Pap>
I will do that, thanks Sigma88!
<Sigma88>
np
<Sigma88>
well, until I added the plugin you could have obtained the exact same results with manual cfgs
<Pap>
What do you mean by that?
<Sigma88>
SD used to be just a series of very complicated MM patches
<Sigma88>
but anything that SD did, you could have written it manually
<Pap>
Ahhh, yes, when I first go into modding, I didn't have the first clue of what I was doing. so I preferred completely re-writing over trying to make patches ;) I've come a long way
<Sigma88>
now with the plugin you have access to new features that are not available on just kopernicus
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<Sigma88>
I just meant that even if SD was out, there was no real reason to use it if you prefered doing things manually
<Sigma88>
but now, you can do some cool stuff with SD, like changing the size of buildings
<Sigma88>
their positions
<Sigma88>
stuff like that
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<Pap>
I hadn't looked into the SD updates, I am excited to see all of the new features
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<Maxsimal>
Pap: Fixed it
<Pap>
REALLY!!!!!! What was it?
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Parameter missing a @. But it still got parsed.
<Pap>
I assumed it was something like that, it always is
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Yeah, guess I gotta go delete my configurator posts
<Starwaster>
Sigma88, that doesn't look like a face, just a pile of dirt! :P
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<Maxsimal>
Pap: Ok, I've got my files set up in the RP-0 local github clone, I can see the APP has teh changed/deleted/new files. I go to Repository - Push - doesn't change my clone online. You said I should sync something? I don't see a sync.
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<Pap>
Beneath where you have the changed files, you need to create the Commit. Fill in the Summary and Description, then click Sync
<Pap>
Before you hit sync, there is a check mark on the bottom That says Commit to xxx, clikc that first
<Maxsimal>
Ok, did it, now my changes are online on my clone of the master branch.
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<Maxsimal>
So now I create a pull request to let NK merge it to master after he reviews?
<Maxsimal>
Pap: Yup, it's done. Now off to watch GoT with the gifrlend, but I'll keep this open.
<Pap>
Maxsimal: spoiler alert, GoT is always awesome
<Maxsimal>
Pap: thanks for the help
<Pap>
thank you for the work!
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<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, if all the generic engine configs set an origMass which overrides anything else how am I supposed to account for the weight of the deocupler in the booster
<Raidernick>
the total booster mass includes the mass of it's hardware
<Raidernick>
but in ksp the decouplers have to be separate parts
<Raidernick>
so how am I supposed to account for that mass if the engine configs always override it
<NathanKell|WORK>
using a mass offset
<Raidernick>
what's the syntax and where do i put it in the config?
<NathanKell|WORK>
Look at the FASA LR105
<NathanKell|WORK>
that should have an example of it
<NathanKell|WORK>
I think below engineType = whatever, you then have the following line:
<NathanKell|WORK>
massOffset = [the offset in tonnes]
<NathanKell|WORK>
like massOffset = 1.2
<Raidernick>
ok I see it i'll try that
<Raidernick>
also NathanKell|WORK for engine configs that change the gimbal for certain configs
<Raidernick>
does that always overwrite the gimbal values defined in the original aprt configs?
<Raidernick>
I notice that if the config value for gimbal is set to 0 the aprt still HAS a gimbal
<Raidernick>
i'm assuming it means the gimbal is just set to 0
<Raidernick>
so it won't move?
<NathanKell|WORK>
yes
<Raidernick>
I'm trying to start using these engine configs now
<Raidernick>
so I'm not that familar with them
<NathanKell|WORK>
ok!
<NathanKell|WORK>
they're very useful IMo
<NathanKell|WORK>
they make life easier in the long run, much easier
<Raidernick>
NathanKell|WORK, except when someone keeps changing the mix rates
<Raidernick>
lol
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<NCommander>
Evening world
<Pap>
Raidernick: no one would do that! (Except NK of course ;)
<NathanKell|WORK>
Problem can easily be solved: be right the first time! \o/
<NathanKell|WORK>
yo NCommander
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<NCommander>
how are things here?
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<blowfish>
I tried to get engines to explode last night and was not able to
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<NCommander>
TF fails to strike?
<blowfish>
nope, unrelated to testflight
<egg>
NCommander: cayley's out, icymi
<SpecimenSpiff>
blowfish, apparently there is a quota on engine explosions, and I hit it, leaving none for you
<blowfish>
Steps to reproduce: 1) Be SpecimenSpiff
<SpecimenSpiff>
2) design rocket that pushes 10-20 seconds past rated burn time
<SpecimenSpiff>
3) use un-researched engies
<SpecimenSpiff>
I think I had 4 flights in a row fail because either the rd103m or aj10 exploded
<NathanKell|WORK>
SpecimenSpiff: wait I think we may be doing this stupidly. What about using a 1x-AJ10 stage and then a 2x-AJ10 stage?
<NathanKell|WORK>
instead of stretching the core or the uppers
<NathanKell|WORK>
(and then the RD-103 under them obvs)
<SpecimenSpiff>
yeah, the approach I was using last night was not working. I eventually just tried removing the tli payload and aiming for orbit, and that launcher couldnt do it even with no payload. so a different approach tonight
<SpecimenSpiff>
of course at this rate, I'll have bigger engines available before a launch succeeds...
<SpecimenSpiff>
I spent a lot of time trying to duplicate what luedemon described in his ris post without any luck at all
<SpecimenSpiff>
so he missed something in his description, most likely
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<Starwaster>
does anyone know how power requirements scale for Brayton cryocoolers for different target ranges? Is it linear or does the efficiency scale on a curve?
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<Starwaster>
thanks
<Bornholio>
its a stupidly complex problem at low temps
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<Starwaster>
well I just need to find a better way of scaling power costs than just a flat rate that's probably more expensive than it needs to be for cryogenics in the range of LOX or LCH4
<NathanKell|WORK>
Starwaster: botec but e of pi figured S-II would need at most 4kW to cool
<NathanKell|WORK>
maybe that helps?
<NathanKell|WORK>
just remembered I'd read that from him
<Starwaster>
thanks but it's not so much needing to know how much it would cost so much as how much would it cost along a wide range of temperatures. Keeping LH2 (20K) cool costs about 114W of electricity per watt of heat removed Cooling at 70K is something like 50We per watt of heat and it's probably even less for LOX.
<NathanKell|WORK>
ah gotcha
<Starwaster>
So my goal is to figure out what kind of curve it's on so it can be scaled accordingly by whatever it is that's being cooled
<Starwaster>
right now, HeatPump is just doing a flat rate of 114 watts per watt removed
<Starwaster>
(which is why insulation is a big plus)
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<taniwha>
Starwaster: it /might/ be linear. at higher temps, you need to remove fewer watts to keep the thing cool
<taniwha>
because your heat influx is lower
<taniwha>
Starwaster: have you looked at the heat pump page on wikipedia?
<Bornholio>
the thing about LH2 at 20K is it needs two stage cooling so 8% efficiency pumping into 12% efficient range is what is really happening for that
<acharles>
Did anyone read the space law implications of the mars colonization goal of space x? I thought it was enlightening, but it didn’t consider the fact that the treaty was signed when people believed that landing on the moon alone would cost 5-10% of the largest country on earth’s GDP. In that situation, agreeing to not lay claim to space is a no-brainer. In a world where going to space is ‘cheap’ by comparison, making claiming space
<acharles>
more pragmatic, I don’t forsee any country with the ability to effectively claim space following the treaty, as written.
<Bornholio>
US did not sign that treaty
<acharles>
Oh?
<acharles>
I would’ve thought that the entire article would hinge on the US signing the Outer Space Treaty.
<acharles>
Cause if they didn’t, then none of the laws apply
<Bornholio>
now its what treaty, US has siggned some of them
<acharles>
It mostly talks about the Outer Space Treaty, which the US did sign.
<Bornholio>
the moon treaty is the stupid one, signed by a lot of nations but its meaningless because the US and Russia wern't dumb enough to sign it
<acharles>
I just find it amusing that he doesn’t list the inevitability of the US just deciding that it’s not going to follow the treaty anymore.
<Bornholio>
the space treaty only prevents military occupation not any civillian
<Rokker>
you know whats weird about the Atlas OV1 missions?
<Bornholio>
no mouse sex?
<acharles>
A lack of mouse sex is weird?
<Rokker>
Bornholio: it was sorta up to 3 launch vehicles all sharing the same first stage
<Rokker>
but with independent upper stages
<Rokker>
such a strange concept
<Bornholio>
most of them blew up too
<acharles>
So, it gave separation a whole new meaning?
<Bornholio>
they just tossed Sounding rocket tests onto ICBM tests
<Bornholio>
good use of flight time otherwise wasted
<Rokker>
Bornholio: not sounding rockets
<Rokker>
Bornholio: a lot of them were orbital
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<Bornholio>
one of them had double orbital stages didn't it, two compltely differnt orbits and two sats
<Rokker>
Bornholio: thats what im talking about
<Rokker>
Bornholio: they even had some 3 satellite ones
<Rokker>
Bornholio: so you have one first stage
<Bornholio>
we do that all the time now
<Rokker>
with 3 separate upper stages
<Bornholio>
stage and a half
<Bornholio>
Atlas A-H was good stuff and pretty
<Rokker>
ferram4: did you see the picture i linked early this morning
<ferram4>
Rokker, now I did. That poor gun.
<Rokker>
ferram4: surprisingly
<Rokker>
the only badly damaged part was the bolt
<Rokker>
so they just replaced that and some bits on the receiver and it was good to go
<ThisDay>
July 26: Syncom 2 is launched on a Delta B and becomes the first geosynchronous communications satellite in 1963. In 1971, Apollo 15 launches from LC39A. NASA awards the contract for the design and building of STS in 1972.
<Rokker>
ferram4: to be fair it was an AK chambered in 5.56, so..