Althego changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | versions: KSP1 1.11.2 | Rules: tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | "modcall" to call ops | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | Starship is doing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTA0GTgFn5E
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<Solar_Oracle> That feeling when you unlock NTRs and discover that the aerospace tech nodes you haven't researched have all the fuel-only tanks.
<raptop> hah
<raptop> But, then, what did you expect from a civilization where car wheels were derived from turbopump turbines?
<Solar_Oracle> Somewhere in the VAB, an unpaid intern attempts to solve the issue of now-useless tankage. "Hey, guys, why don't we just fill the empty oxidizer tanks with extra fuel?" "Why don't you just shut up and get us more coffee?"
<raptop> Kerbal coffee is at least a few percent hydrazine
<Solar_Oracle> I heard their astronauts' version of Tang is UDMH.
<raptop> extra spicy
<Solar_Oracle> Serious question: If I'm developing a fully reusable, two stage launch vehicle wherein the upper stage is also a crew vehicle/glorified payload fairing, would it be best to make that upper stage space plane-ish or a very tall capsule?
<raptop> Making it plane-ish would probably be harder, but having cross-range would be nice for landing at KSC or the like
<Kevin> tall capsules are unstable, hard to control and land. can it be a *short* capsule? :). spaceplanes also require quite a bit of design work, although once it's done it's a plane
<Solar_Oracle> I'm guessing the latter would sort of be like this, but with the more forgiving delta-v requirements of KSP that actually make it possible https://imgur.com/GgJtNQO
<Solar_Oracle> I'm terrible at designing planes, though, and I like the thought of using my wide NFT boosters as the basis for mammoth payload bays.
<Solar_Oracle> As showcased in the official mod gallery https://i.imgur.com/P9rWmBN.png
<raptop> shiny
<Solar_Oracle> Though I don't have the fairing itself yet, as it's pretty far down the techtree where I am.
<Solar_Oracle> I can build all the gigantic other rocket components, though.
<raptop> I was mainly imaging a literal spaceplane for the upper stage, or a conventional upper stage with chutes (and maybe a bit of fuel reserved for soft landings)
<Solar_Oracle> Though I sort of can't do that one in KSP, and I can't imagine making those tanks in real life would be easy.
<raptop> the second one would be closer
<raptop> (exact design could be quite different in detail)
<Solar_Oracle> No fins, only gimbals
<Solar_Oracle> Or those verniers Soyuz is still toting.
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<raptop> Hrm
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<Izaya> that first one is certainly something
<Solar_Oracle> The Alt-Buran or something else?
<raptop> I assume that Izaya means the saturn-shuttle
<Izaya> the last picture posted, whatever that was
<raptop> ah, the last one Solar_Oracle posted was an alt-buran
<Izaya> I guess that figures
<raptop> proposed second generation design that would be fully reusable
<Solar_Oracle> Buran, but without a face.
<Izaya> seems to embody the kerbal school of design: more boosters
<Solar_Oracle> It's like Energia and Buran got hit by one of those energy waves from Doom and were welded together.
<raptop> Some shuttle followup proposals were similar
<raptop> (At least ones proposed circa 1985-1995)
<Solar_Oracle> There were plenty of proposals to have the main propellant tank operate as a base for bulky payloads, like satellites with enormous dishes and oversized SUVs.
<Solar_Oracle> Mini main propellant tanks!
<Solar_Oracle> I'm guessing that didn't carry as much.
<raptop> I'm unclear on exactly how much it would have carried, but probably
* raptop inserts my standard rant that all fungible shuttle payloads should have gone on much cheaper Titan III / IV rockets
<Solar_Oracle> Would that mean you'd have to leave out Galileo as it was one-of-a-kind?
<raptop> Yes because the shuttle was a generation ahead in reliability
<Solar_Oracle> In some alternate timeline, it's not delayed because of Challenger but ends up exploding on a somewhat less reliable Titan rocket.
<raptop> well, yes
<Solar_Oracle> You people today are all spoiled on your super reliable LVs. Back in ma' pappy's day, we'd be happy if our Atlas waited to explode after takeoff!
<Solar_Oracle> Get all upset when yer' Mars helicopter is delayed? Meh, you know how many Rangers failed 'fore we even got one that could make it to the Moon!?
<raptop> And then the first one to do so couldn't use its cameras
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<Solar_Oracle> Stupid exploding un-burnt fuel.
<Solar_Oracle> My favorite launch failure is the time an unmanned Soyuz capsule entered launch-abort mode on the pad and the exhaust from the escape tower motors set the rest of the stack on fire.
<Solar_Oracle> In effect, the launch abort system caused the failure of the rest of the rocket.
<raptop> wait, what?
<raptop> That does sound vaguely like when that one soyuz caught on fire on the pad circa 1981-82
<Solar_Oracle> It was one of the spacecraft's earliest tests.
<raptop> ah
<Solar_Oracle> There was a scrubbed launch and the LV registered an unplanned movement, triggering the escape system.
<Solar_Oracle> However, there were peopled congregating on the pad at the time ala the Nedelin Catastrophe.
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<raptop> "As the veteran of the mission Vladimir Syromyatnikov later wrote with his famous black humor: "a few world records were broken that day in running and high jumping.""
<Solar_Oracle> There needs to be a movie on the early Soviet space program like The Right Stuff. This is [black] comedy gold!
<Solar_Oracle> Or I suppose it'd be more similar to The Death of Stalin, but with Korolev being the one dying.
<raptop> Consider: a miniseries about soviet/russian space stations. Start with them watching the moon landing and the pivot to the Salyuts, end with launching Zarya
<Solar_Oracle> That'd be kind of a low note given that Zarya's owned by the U.S.
<Solar_Oracle> And if I recall, is mostly a very large walk-in closet.
<raptop> It doesn't feel like there's a good high note to end it on
<Solar_Oracle> Salyut 7's successful retirement mission alongside Mir?
<Solar_Oracle> Just pretend the next three decades don't happen!
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<Althego> oh no, the reaper is coming and i have to go to the bakery
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<Solar_Oracle> Where's Commander Shepherd when you need them?
<raptop> Althego: wait, wouldn't being a phoenix make baking things really easy?
<raptop> or did you mean that *you* have to go to the bakery?
<raptop> Solar_Oracle: vtuber silliness
<Solar_Oracle> Vtuber? What's that? Is that like a blogger that runs on vacuum tubes?
<raptop> heh
* raptop imagines a vacuum tube powered webserver
<raptop> more seriously, virtual youtuber -- you know those people that have anime girl (usually) avatars and stream things?
<Althego> guh
<Althego> i have to go to the bakery. the phoenix is in 8 hours
<Solar_Oracle> Wait, is that like that thin where little kids watch You Tube videos of other little kids playing with toys?
* raptop is also using vaguely following some vtubers as an excuse to learn japanese
<Althego> vtuber reads comic about vtubers lol
<Althego> the previous such thing is legendary
<Solar_Oracle> The internet is becoming too meta.
<raptop> too late
<Solar_Oracle> You fools risk summoning the End of Cycle!
<Althego> doubly meta, because people call calli dad, and she reads the comic my dad is the queen of all vtubers
<raptop> The meta is all sorts of fun. see: gura getting distracted by sharks in the background in underwater sequences
<raptop> or ina in horror games
<Solar_Oracle> I knew I should've just stayed back in the era of Angelfire and flame gifs.
* raptop presses F to pay respects to AIM and the old XMPP google chat
<Solar_Oracle> All this research on reusing upper stages makes me sad I'll be sucked into Stellaris once again.
<Izaya> still mad google stopped federating
<Izaya> but maybe not having the network dominated by an evil company isn't so bad
<Althego> was it ua that wants to keep them in orbit and do something with thtem?
<raptop> something something external tank space station
<Solar_Oracle> No no no, grind them up into propellant.
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<Althego> ah they want to use them as refueling depot
<Althego> name it brennan debot
<Althego> because in elite 2 there were things named brennan
<Althego> i guess maybe a developer
<Althego> what do you know brennan depot is still there in elite dangerous
<Althego> i remember i used to transport something between arcturus and 70 ophiuchi
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<raptop> friendship drive charging?
<Althego> when guh is a legitimate line in the comic. this is made for calli
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<Althego> we mentioned fuel depot in orbit. and there it is an angry astronaut video about the exact same thing
<Althego> oh no, zombanwa
<Althego> when is the ingenuity flight?
<Althego> hehe, ash ketchum is 34 years old
<Izaya> stop that
<Althego> bart simpson is 41
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<Mat2ch> lol. Blue Origin shall build a space craft that is then powered by a nuclear stage (a NERVA)
<Mat2ch> They haven't put anything in orbit yet and already get such contracts. That smells so much like corruption, I don't know why.
<flayer> to be fair many companies that don't have rockets to put them in space participate in building space crafts
<Mat2ch> yes, but they usually have some reptutation to do so. Mostly because they are founded by space veterans
<Mat2ch> And Blue Origin is a joke to me.
<Althego> actually they didnt get contracts where ula and spacex did
<Althego> so not everything is corrupt
<Althego> i just dont get why they cant produce anything useful
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<Althego> they have the backing of maybe the richest man, or at least he used to be, because he gets income from amazon
<FLHerne> BO do have a lot of veteran space talent
<Althego> yet they are older than spacex and never went into orbit
<Mat2ch> It's a management problem!
<Althego> even the launch that possibly happens today, that rocket although suborbital, never carried a person
<Mat2ch> If a company doesn't perform well, it is usally the management making poor or bad decisions. Mostly because they don't know what they are talking about
<Althego> well, spacex has that too
<Mat2ch> Bezos is no Musk driving things forward.
<Althego> i never believed the point ot point starship idea
<Althego> costs too much and too risky
<Mat2ch> It's just a vision, will probably never happen.
<Mat2ch> Far too expensive. Building a hyperloop over land will be so much easier compared to that.
<Mat2ch> and cleaner.
<Mat2ch> and more efficient
<Althego> and i dont believe hyperloop either
<flayer> i think starship can actually happen
<Mat2ch> Putting a maglev train in a low pressure tube is nothing fancy.
<Althego> that can
<Althego> probably hard, but can be done
<flayer> to the moon, to mars, yeah, i think it's entirely feasible
<Althego> but i am talking about suborbital point to point flights with it
<Althego> it is simply not competitive with airlines
<flayer> yeah, that seems... like it would take longer to set up and prepare each flight than the actual flight itself would take
<Althego> especially with the new supersonic are happening soon
<sandbox> you don't believe the hype?
<flayer> in that whole space of time, you can just take an ordinary plane
<Althego> you even need to take a boat out to a launch platform at sea
<Althego> and the fuel costs alone are probably several times bigger
<Althego> and less safe
<Althego> for slight time margins
<Althego> oh a jay
<Althego> they dont usually come here
<Mat2ch> Althego: uhm, the new super sonic stuff will have low capacity, high maintanace and nobody is talking about fuel costs here
<Althego> because a rocket is not low capacity high maintenance
<Mat2ch> hyperloop can be built high capacity, low mainantance and fully electric powered with energy regeneration on braking
<Althego> hyperloop is maybe slightly more plausible than the point to point starship
<flayer> did you also take into account the vast wealth inequality
<flayer> people like musk, bezos, gates, etc, might think that it is worth the money
<flayer> to travel in a rocket from earth to earth
<Althego> (local) leet time
<Althego> !time
<Kerbot> Althego => 13:38:04 CEST on 2021-04-14 Wednesday CW 15
<Althego> i think i barely made it
<flayer> 4 seconds before 1338 for me
<Althego> yes looks like that
<Althego> the clock is about 4 seconds behind and showed 52
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<Althego> phoenix is coming but i still have an almost 3 hour long flat earth video
<Althego> kikkerikii
<darsie> .
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<Althego> 2 hours until the blue origin stream
<Mat2ch> seems reasonable. :D
<Althego> lol
<Althego> if it is under pressure it should be quite rigid
<Althego> and the bottom is full of tiles which could be replaced
<Althego> but non ideal. i am really afraid those tiles are going to be a long term issue
<Mat2ch> well, even if it is pressurized this would be a lot of stress to the structure
<Mat2ch> and damgaged tiles means more maintance.
<Althego> the whole structure is big, i would make the webbed part bigger
<Althego> think of the fairings
<Althego> the web was way bigger and it was hard to catch them
<Althego> to the point they gave up on it
<Mat2ch> well, the fairings did come on parafoils
<Mat2ch> which makes it a very dynamic system
<Mat2ch> starship on the other hand falls very controlled all the way.
<Mat2ch> and its mass makes it more resiliant to wind gusts.
<darsie> flayer: I'm used to slapping in another channel.
<Althego> the princess is in another castle
<darsie> Has she been sleeping for 100 years? She must be very old and smell horribly, then.
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<Guest81405> hello
<Mod9000> Hello, Guest81405
<darsie> .
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<Althego> heh blue origin launch is on hold
<minas_tirith> Hi darsie
<Mat2ch> woooot
<darsie> .
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<Mat2ch> Uh, SN15 might have its static fire test on Friday
<Mat2ch> (almost wrote Fireday. Not that wrong. ;)
<darsie> Althego: url?
<darsie> k
<Althego> but probably not today
<darsie> thx
<Althego> hah 10 minutes until stream
<Althego> so maybe
<darsie> live
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<flayer> yeah
<flayer> that kind of thing is going to become an ever bigger problem
<Althego> what is with these holds
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<Althego> ehhe americans with letter and stuff
<raptop> and the multiple letter standards
<Althego> i didnt expect a universe scale video
* raptop stab stab stabbity stab stab
<raptop> But yes, that is a fun powers of 10 style video
* raptop is also reminded of the hexagons are the bestagons video for some reason
<Althego> yes, lets make all strategies hexagonal
<Althego> hexagons are fine for insect vision, they would be fine for cameras and screens too
<raptop> ⌬⌬⌬
<Althego> countdown afgaun
<raptop> ⏣⏣⏣
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<Althego> now
<Althego> i forgot to double the speed
<Althego> there is a 15 sec buffer
<Althego> sapcex does better landings without hover
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<Mat2ch> Althego: but but but
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<Shoe> flayer: kinky
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