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<Solar_Oracle>
That feeling when you unlock NTRs and discover that the aerospace tech nodes you haven't researched have all the fuel-only tanks.
<raptop>
hah
<raptop>
But, then, what did you expect from a civilization where car wheels were derived from turbopump turbines?
<Solar_Oracle>
Somewhere in the VAB, an unpaid intern attempts to solve the issue of now-useless tankage. "Hey, guys, why don't we just fill the empty oxidizer tanks with extra fuel?" "Why don't you just shut up and get us more coffee?"
<raptop>
Kerbal coffee is at least a few percent hydrazine
<Solar_Oracle>
I heard their astronauts' version of Tang is UDMH.
<raptop>
extra spicy
<Solar_Oracle>
Serious question: If I'm developing a fully reusable, two stage launch vehicle wherein the upper stage is also a crew vehicle/glorified payload fairing, would it be best to make that upper stage space plane-ish or a very tall capsule?
<raptop>
Making it plane-ish would probably be harder, but having cross-range would be nice for landing at KSC or the like
<Kevin>
tall capsules are unstable, hard to control and land. can it be a *short* capsule? :). spaceplanes also require quite a bit of design work, although once it's done it's a plane
<Solar_Oracle>
I'm guessing the latter would sort of be like this, but with the more forgiving delta-v requirements of KSP that actually make it possible https://imgur.com/GgJtNQO
<Solar_Oracle>
I'm terrible at designing planes, though, and I like the thought of using my wide NFT boosters as the basis for mammoth payload bays.
<Solar_Oracle>
Though I don't have the fairing itself yet, as it's pretty far down the techtree where I am.
<Solar_Oracle>
I can build all the gigantic other rocket components, though.
<raptop>
I was mainly imaging a literal spaceplane for the upper stage, or a conventional upper stage with chutes (and maybe a bit of fuel reserved for soft landings)
<raptop>
I assume that Izaya means the saturn-shuttle
<Izaya>
the last picture posted, whatever that was
<raptop>
ah, the last one Solar_Oracle posted was an alt-buran
<Izaya>
I guess that figures
<raptop>
proposed second generation design that would be fully reusable
<Solar_Oracle>
Buran, but without a face.
<Izaya>
seems to embody the kerbal school of design: more boosters
<Solar_Oracle>
It's like Energia and Buran got hit by one of those energy waves from Doom and were welded together.
<raptop>
Some shuttle followup proposals were similar
<raptop>
(At least ones proposed circa 1985-1995)
<Solar_Oracle>
There were plenty of proposals to have the main propellant tank operate as a base for bulky payloads, like satellites with enormous dishes and oversized SUVs.
<Solar_Oracle>
I'm guessing that didn't carry as much.
<raptop>
I'm unclear on exactly how much it would have carried, but probably
* raptop
inserts my standard rant that all fungible shuttle payloads should have gone on much cheaper Titan III / IV rockets
<Solar_Oracle>
Would that mean you'd have to leave out Galileo as it was one-of-a-kind?
<raptop>
Yes because the shuttle was a generation ahead in reliability
<Solar_Oracle>
In some alternate timeline, it's not delayed because of Challenger but ends up exploding on a somewhat less reliable Titan rocket.
<raptop>
well, yes
<Solar_Oracle>
You people today are all spoiled on your super reliable LVs. Back in ma' pappy's day, we'd be happy if our Atlas waited to explode after takeoff!
<Solar_Oracle>
Get all upset when yer' Mars helicopter is delayed? Meh, you know how many Rangers failed 'fore we even got one that could make it to the Moon!?
<raptop>
And then the first one to do so couldn't use its cameras
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<Solar_Oracle>
Stupid exploding un-burnt fuel.
<Solar_Oracle>
My favorite launch failure is the time an unmanned Soyuz capsule entered launch-abort mode on the pad and the exhaust from the escape tower motors set the rest of the stack on fire.
<Solar_Oracle>
In effect, the launch abort system caused the failure of the rest of the rocket.
<raptop>
That does sound vaguely like when that one soyuz caught on fire on the pad circa 1981-82
<Solar_Oracle>
It was one of the spacecraft's earliest tests.
<raptop>
ah
<Solar_Oracle>
There was a scrubbed launch and the LV registered an unplanned movement, triggering the escape system.
<Solar_Oracle>
However, there were peopled congregating on the pad at the time ala the Nedelin Catastrophe.
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<raptop>
"As the veteran of the mission Vladimir Syromyatnikov later wrote with his famous black humor: "a few world records were broken that day in running and high jumping.""
<Solar_Oracle>
There needs to be a movie on the early Soviet space program like The Right Stuff. This is [black] comedy gold!
<Solar_Oracle>
Or I suppose it'd be more similar to The Death of Stalin, but with Korolev being the one dying.
<raptop>
Consider: a miniseries about soviet/russian space stations. Start with them watching the moon landing and the pivot to the Salyuts, end with launching Zarya
<Solar_Oracle>
That'd be kind of a low note given that Zarya's owned by the U.S.
<Solar_Oracle>
And if I recall, is mostly a very large walk-in closet.
<raptop>
It doesn't feel like there's a good high note to end it on
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<Althego>
we mentioned fuel depot in orbit. and there it is an angry astronaut video about the exact same thing
<Althego>
oh no, zombanwa
<Althego>
when is the ingenuity flight?
<Althego>
hehe, ash ketchum is 34 years old
<Izaya>
stop that
<Althego>
bart simpson is 41
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* flayer
slaps darsie
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<Mat2ch>
lol. Blue Origin shall build a space craft that is then powered by a nuclear stage (a NERVA)
<Mat2ch>
They haven't put anything in orbit yet and already get such contracts. That smells so much like corruption, I don't know why.
<flayer>
to be fair many companies that don't have rockets to put them in space participate in building space crafts
<Mat2ch>
yes, but they usually have some reptutation to do so. Mostly because they are founded by space veterans
<Mat2ch>
And Blue Origin is a joke to me.
<Althego>
actually they didnt get contracts where ula and spacex did
<Althego>
so not everything is corrupt
<Althego>
i just dont get why they cant produce anything useful
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<Althego>
they have the backing of maybe the richest man, or at least he used to be, because he gets income from amazon
<FLHerne>
BO do have a lot of veteran space talent
<Althego>
yet they are older than spacex and never went into orbit
<Mat2ch>
It's a management problem!
<Althego>
even the launch that possibly happens today, that rocket although suborbital, never carried a person
<Mat2ch>
If a company doesn't perform well, it is usally the management making poor or bad decisions. Mostly because they don't know what they are talking about
<Althego>
well, spacex has that too
<Mat2ch>
Bezos is no Musk driving things forward.
<Althego>
i never believed the point ot point starship idea
<Althego>
costs too much and too risky
<Mat2ch>
It's just a vision, will probably never happen.
<Mat2ch>
Far too expensive. Building a hyperloop over land will be so much easier compared to that.
<Mat2ch>
and cleaner.
<Mat2ch>
and more efficient
<Althego>
and i dont believe hyperloop either
<flayer>
i think starship can actually happen
<Mat2ch>
Putting a maglev train in a low pressure tube is nothing fancy.
<Althego>
that can
<Althego>
probably hard, but can be done
<flayer>
to the moon, to mars, yeah, i think it's entirely feasible
<Althego>
but i am talking about suborbital point to point flights with it
<Althego>
it is simply not competitive with airlines
<flayer>
yeah, that seems... like it would take longer to set up and prepare each flight than the actual flight itself would take
<Althego>
especially with the new supersonic are happening soon
<sandbox>
you don't believe the hype?
<flayer>
in that whole space of time, you can just take an ordinary plane
<Althego>
you even need to take a boat out to a launch platform at sea
<Althego>
and the fuel costs alone are probably several times bigger