raptop changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | versions: KSP1 1.9.1 KSP2 NaN | Rules: tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | "modcall" to call ops | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | Type "chanlog" for logs | Practice social distancing, join IRC TODAY!
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<Althego> oh no, i feel the urge again to play surviving mars. it wasnt even half a year ago
<JVFoxy> last night someone said my ship design was.. 'strange'... well, tried another angle on things...
<Althego> cant get worse than transitbiker's planes
<Althego> he builds huge and ugly monstrosities
<JVFoxy> Moribus, Latin for 'Adventurer. went from 40t on the last design up to a phat 52.4t. Though I might be able to fit this one better into a shroud.. https://imgur.com/a/PiDEhOu
<Althego> cylindrical enough that i wouldnt put it into a fairing
<JVFoxy> Althego suppose... though the other two previous ones.. eh, sorta needed shrouds. Mostly because of the docking structures
<Althego> cantyou hide the cabins inside?
<JVFoxy> A bit of a concern regarding the weight though
<JVFoxy> I thought about a hitch hiker can behind the command pod but.. tunnel through the fuel tanks woulda.. eh.. odd design choice
<JVFoxy> still woulda needed access to the docking port in the cargo bay, hence the parts that wrap around. its somewhat balanced this way around I guess
<Althego> hah found a free dlc for surviving mars (mysteries resupply pack)
<Althego> but if i download it, i have to save it, and for that i need to get the xternal drive and i am too lazy for that. have to walk around 4 meters and back
<Althego> so free is not completely free
<JVFoxy> Althego ran out of drive space?
<Althego> no, that is the xternal backup
<JVFoxy> oh
<Althego> lol it is free an i cant buy it
<Althego> the button was missing, but apparently it worked
<JVFoxy> ooof... sloooow liftoff
<Althego> oh wait, there was a progress launch a few hours ago
<JVFoxy> oof... this thing is a slug once I drop off the boosters
<Althego> gravity losses
<JVFoxy> was already past 70km when boosters ran out
<Althego> hehe
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<Althego> i dont get why the soyuz and progress vehicles oscilalte in the roll axis that much
<JVFoxy> revert... I was a bit worried about pitching over too much.. the structural parts near the front wants to generate body lift. Ended up putting appo way too high
<JVFoxy> oh? where did you find out about that even?
<Althego> on board camera
<Althego> the last few soyuz launches had camera and it seems the progress has it too
<Althego> and it looks so annoying to me
<Althego> ok it is an unstable system, but the control loop could be gentler
<Althego> like on any other spacecraft
<JVFoxy> the big engines don't gimble. that control is done by vernier thrusters that are grouped in pairs on boosters and there's 4 with the sustainers
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<Althego> the soyuz rocket
<Althego> but the second stage?
<Althego> probably done by rcs
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<JVFoxy> oh second..
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<JVFoxy> was something weird about the second stage.. 4 engines but is 3 of one model and 4th is something else with gimble
<Althego> doesnt seem to be a high potential with creating roll
<JVFoxy> no idea... if its a slow roll could just be feed back system is a bit slugish?
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<JVFoxy> if it snaps really suddenly from side to side, could just be over compensating... there are only 4 engines but 2 directional thrusters on the second stage
<Althego> which seems to be something that could be fixed
<JVFoxy> huh... DV thing giving me weird values.. or staying stuck..
<Althego> that has been doing that ever since it was introduced
<Althego> just ignore it
<JVFoxy> kind of makes things a little difficult... threw it out into the field, seems fine but... trying to balance TWR and making sure I've enough DV with this beast
<JVFoxy> oof... so.. to get fully fueled 52 tons close to an orbit, already takes me 210ts total...
<JVFoxy> but... if I drain all but 1/6th of the fuel from the ship, cuts down so much on the weight, I can get a total weight with booster down to 124tons. Well below the pad's 140t limit. I can send up fuel with tankers later on
<JVFoxy> also, I only need 2 instead of 4 skipper boosters
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<JVFoxy> kinda wish the nose cones could hold fuel too
<Althego> now i installed two parts of surviving mars just to get the music
<Althego> i could install all the other parts and play a bit
<Althego> problems multiply, music has two external backups :)
<Althego> and i have to get the far one again
<Althego> actually 3, but since the pi i truned off the 3rd one
<JVFoxy> trying to get this weight up into space under 140t... fun
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* darsie switched to a more conventional, cheaper, carefree approach for single Kerbin orbit tourists: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot236.png
<darsie> It's great they bring chutes now. They learned something :).
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<Flayer> lmao darsie
<Althego> viable
<Flayer> going with luxury of 3 fins i see
<Flayer> fancy
<Althego> i would dial up the starting thrust on the solid a bit
<Flayer> 2 is fine
<Flayer> 2 twr
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<JVFoxy> sure that probe has enough power to last long enough?
<JVFoxy> don't know.. that 2 twr might be too slow
<Althego> 3 people 3 opinions :)
<JVFoxy> I was thinking of gravity loses...
<Althego> i was thinking of aero losses and heat
<JVFoxy> meh... its pointed enough, it'll do fine
<Althego> towards the end it will have around twr 5
<JVFoxy> long as you don't hit 7-8 gees for too long, your fine. don't wanna knock them out or anything
<JVFoxy> while back, got one of those stupid high-g suborbital contracts.. that was a pain to do
<Althego> i hate those too
<Althego> because you cant fulfill it with rotation
<Althego> in any real case g is g, no difference for linear ro rotational
<JVFoxy> I think I used a half filled little SRB once I popped above the 70km mark
<JVFoxy> ya.. g force is measured by how much the CG ends up shifting around. Not based on changes in angular velocity of a part
<Althego> yet the game kmnows about rotational g, because if you spin something around the parts stretch out
<JVFoxy> sorta....
<Althego> so obviously the cabin g should be measured
<JVFoxy> I stuck a g meter thing on one of the parts.. it didn't read anything when I spun it. I took a kerbal out, stood it on a platform out on an arm with a counter weight. spun it to see if it would stay standing
<JVFoxy> think the game simulates parts getting pulled away from each other, doesn't know about actual g forces
<JVFoxy> put a meter on same part, probably won't register.
<JVFoxy> ... unless if the game code was changed since my last test
<JVFoxy> hmmm... was thinking, ship looks nice with the cargo bay style.. just.. the weight though. Ugh.. 3 tons just for the cargo section alone. I don't know...
<Althego> usually i go with the functional but ugly approach
<Althego> like the lem
<Althego> and i hate it
<Althego> but i cant sacrifize delta v for cosmetics
<darsie> Althego: I tilted it 5 deg east and adjusted TWR to get 63ish Ap after first stage.
<JVFoxy> Althego: ya the open framework was way lighter, but requires shroud to get into orbit. Not exactly pretty but it was functional
<JVFoxy> Although.. suppose I could reorient the lander docking port to stick out the back of the command pod instead. Keep things inline
<darsie> JVFoxy: computer is in hibernation.
<JVFoxy> not that the weight is really too badly out of cg with the original design. Just made docking easier instead of having to slide into the middle..
<JVFoxy> darsie: noticed you can't actually turn it off... I guess they wanted to avoid people turning it off accidentally and not being able to turn it back on or something?
<darsie> First stage has fins, second stage is well balanced, so RWs don't have much to do.
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<darsie> JVFoxy: Doesn't use much more than battery self discharge.
<Althego> is there even self discharge in the game?
<darsie> No. Computer in standby take care of that.
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<darsie> Like a switched off computer irl.
<JVFoxy> RTGs have a rating to do with age/halflife/power output but I don't think it ever got used...?
<darsie> There self discharge would do it.
<darsie> Dunno the half life of Blutonium :).
<JVFoxy> efficiency or something?
<JVFoxy> maybe if it got too hot, started producing less? I hadn't really messed with them much myself
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<darsie> Radioisotopes give off heat as they decay, which reduces activity and power.
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<darsie> Heat may reduce chain reaction reactivity. Has only little effect on decay.
<JVFoxy> ya.. also uses thermalpile to produce power..
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<darsie> I meant the decay reduces activity and power.
<darsie> The half life is the time in which half the toms decay.
<Althego> hehe half the toms
<Althego> and what do jerries do?
<JVFoxy> radiation they finding also messing with the links in the thermal thermocouple as in the voyager probes
<darsie> Dunno. But toms are splittable. tomos=split in greek.
<JVFoxy> put a bunch of ferries in a can?
<JVFoxy> er.. jerries dang it
<darsie> atoms can't be split. electrons are atoms, but toms aren'.
<darsie> t
<Althego> tomos: plural of tomo-chan :)
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<JVFoxy> had a flight instructor named Tomo
<Althego> (tomo-chan wa onnanoko is funny)
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<JVFoxy> ugh I spent waaay too much time futzing around with booster designs...
<JVFoxy> didn't realize its nearly 2am now
<Althego> hehe
<Althego> what you are in one of those half hour timezones?
<Haddock> i hope my new pc comes today so i can play ksp again, i still can't get it workign on my laptop
<JVFoxy> no... ? PST.. if you wanna be exact, 0148
<Althego> that is not early 2, late 1 :)
<JVFoxy> well more than half the hour has gone by so ... eh
<JVFoxy> 3/4 had already gone by even when I said sometihng
<Althego> i noticed that too. when it is late in the night i do minor things and hours just speed by because i am getting slower
<JVFoxy> well considering I was messing with booster stuff since 8-9pm or something... ugh
<Althego> i can tweak vehicles for weeks
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<darsie> My asteroid pusher is a piece of art.
<JVFoxy> having unlimited size, part count, weight... not much of a challenge.
<JVFoxy> trying to push 60t ship with only a 140t weight limit... eh.
<Althego> you could use jets
<Althego> becomes really expensive really fast
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<JVFoxy> it was more a, 'what would it take if I put this in my current career'.. I ended up deciding to dump most of the fuel and figured I could just launch the lander on a separate craft along with a refuel ship
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<darsie> Richfel Kerman was stranded on the surface of the Mun. The Munar rescue station (an Mk1 command pod rocket) made a close pass over him and told him to jetpack to and fly home himself. So after a few attempts he managed to get to a 7 km polar orbit where the station intercepted him and refuelled his jetpack. He then jetpacked to LKO where he boarded the space station and currently enjoys the company of Valley Kerman: http://bksys.at
<darsie> /bernhard/temp/screenshot239.png . He still has to jetpack down to Kerbin and parachute to the KSC.
<darsie> jetpack to orbit*
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<Flayer> my foot is asleep
<Flayer> there, now it is better
<Flayer> i hope you appreciated these updates on my foot
<darsie> .
<Flayer> i'm thinking i can build some early science stations on minmus using scientists and jetpacks
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<umaxtu> does your foot need to be awake for that?
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<Althego> kerbals sure can have fun
<Black_Eagle> man i would love to have a ramjet engine that has almost zero thrust below mach 1
<Black_Eagle> the rapier should have been designed differently
<Althego> the rapier wants to be a game version of sabre
<Black_Eagle> i know
<Althego> so it has thrust with zero speed
<Black_Eagle> really? i thought it needed some speed
<Althego> but there should be at least a ramjet and a scramjety
<Black_Eagle> but ok then!
<Black_Eagle> yeah
<Black_Eagle> what's scramjet again
<Black_Eagle> ah supersonic
<Althego> remember the flying surfbord x-3something?
<darsie> Shouldn't be too hard to make a ramjet in KSP, I guess.
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<Althego> you can just modify the curves
<Black_Eagle> mmm, yeah. but that's modded content then
<darsie> So you only want it from Squad, or whoever makes KSP now?
<Althego> squad makes it, but they dont do much anymore
<Althego> i wonder what is going to happen to them? transition to an other game?
<darsie> Go back to advertising?
<Althego> arent they part of take two now?
<Black_Eagle> darsie kinda yeah. i refuse to mod
<Black_Eagle> did it once and never again
<darsie> Black_Eagle: Try dated quicksaves.
<Black_Eagle> eh? what are those
<darsie> Saves your last few quicksaves as separate files.
<Black_Eagle> does it update itself when ksp updates?
<darsie> idk.
<Black_Eagle> that's a no then
<Mat2ch> Althego: Squad is part of T2 and they're working on KSP2
<Althego> a different crew is working on ksp2
<Mat2ch> are you sure they didn't merge yet?
<Black_Eagle> i'm excited to see what kind of a game it is
<Althego> the old ones may help, but it was clear from the start they are separate and huge fans of the game
<Althego> when is the sn4 test?
<Althego> today?
<Althego> or maybe monday?
<Mat2ch> Black_Eagle: I fear that it's just a part-mod for KSP. But I hope to be wrong. And I fear they will ditch Linux support
<Althego> it is not a part mod
<Althego> they basically rewrote the game again
<Althego> in the same engine
<Althego> why didnt they go with unreal instead of unity
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<Mat2ch> I heard some rumours they did ditch Unity
<Mat2ch> but rumours are rumours
<Althego> that can happen
<Althego> since they were stuck after a while with some unknown issues
<Mat2ch> let's just say that Unity was never meant for something like KSP ;)
<Althego> so we have the unknown amount of delay
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<Althego> i think neither was any normal game engine
<Mat2ch> UE4 gives you the option to use several low-level languages
<Mat2ch> you could use C++ for the calculations and the Engine just for the graphics
<Althego> that may be true, the problem is the incredible distances
<Mat2ch> I bet you could even sneak some assembly in there. But doing that is hard if you want to be cross-plattform
<Mat2ch> I have ideas to solve that problem
<Althego> so the usual methods dont work
<Althego> it is m ostly solved in the current game too
<Mat2ch> but since I never can really focus I never got to test it.
<Althego> but it requires lot of custom code
<Althego> while say an fps would probably get by with lot less
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<Althego> guess what i am not going to watch :)
<Mat2ch> 3 hours?
<Mat2ch> I'll be asleep by then :P
<Althego> me too
<Mat2ch> and why do they always test on weekends? ;)
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<Althego> just as this morning i missed the progress launch i am missing the sn4 test too
<Althego> maybe the test is on weekend because the road has to be closed for the moving of the tank
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<Mat2ch> Althego: but the whole thing was moves yesterday
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