Althego changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | versions: KSP1 1.11.1 | Rules: tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | "modcall" to call ops | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | Apparently SpaceX can do both a successful landing *and* a RUD
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<Althego> starlink launch postponed. i knew it, i had broken silicon to listen to from yesterday, and got a flat earth video too
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<Althego> or at least ansible
<Althego> the only problem with ftl that it is against causality
<Mat2ch> why?
<Mat2ch> you are just faster than light, but you still need time
<Althego> that is equivalent of time travel
<Mat2ch> Not really
<Mat2ch> You are neither moving forward nor backward in time
<Mat2ch> except if you tie time to light speed.
<packbart> the sight of the fireworks you set off near Centauri will only reach Earth after your return
<Althego> which would change the order of cause and effect
<packbart> I don't consider that much of a problem ;)
<packbart> I can drop stones into a lake, then jump in a car and be at the other side before the waves arrive
<Althego> i think it is not so simple
<Althego> but anyway, elon was talkative about starship a few hours ago
<Althego> (on twitter)
<Althego> scroll up for the complete conversation https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1369489056350883840
<Mat2ch> But you can make the same argument about the speed of sound.
<Mat2ch> If you set off a firework, then go supersonic you can hear the boom twice.
<Mat2ch> They will stick to landing those things, because there are no nets or bouncy castles on Mars.
<darsie> You can hear a bullet impact before you hear it being fired.
<Althego> yes that was my biggest problem. maybe the martian starships are going to have optional landing legs
<darsie> Doesn't mean it impacted before being fired.
<Mat2ch> yep
<Mat2ch> that's how I see FTL
<Mat2ch> travel
<Althego> unfortunately light travels with the speed of causality in this universe
<Mat2ch> only if you think in Einstein. And there are additions to it that changes this
<Mat2ch> Take Horizon Mechanics. Then the speed of light is set by how fast you can move in the quantum vacuum
<darsie> Or that the impact caused it to be fired.
<Mat2ch> actually it's worse. The quantum vacuum dictates that nothing goes faster and therefore you can't accelerate anymore
<Mat2ch> in horizons: If you move fast, there's a horizon behind you and that defines what kind of information can reach you
<Mat2ch> the faster you go, the fewer information can reach you
<Mat2ch> and at light speed the horizon goes to infinite size
<Mat2ch> so no information can reach you, therefore you can't accelerate further
<Mat2ch> But if you can somehow get the quantum vacuum to change this speed or even better just ignore it, you can go faster than light.
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<Althego> (local) leet time
<darsie> .
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<Althego> kikkerikiii
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<Althego> the puns
<Mat2ch> ouch
<Mat2ch> oh, wow, they are moving fast with SN11. Pressure test done, Raptors installed
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<prefixcactus> raptop: are you installed?
* raptop falls over
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* Mat2ch tacks raptop to the wall
* raptop x_x
* prefixcactus hides from possible RUD
* Mat2ch takes prefixcactus and tapes them to the wall
* raptop is not planning on undergoing engine-rich combustion
* prefixcactus T_T
<Mat2ch> We could fill you with some hydrogen and see what happens!
* prefixcactus tries to take away the tape from Mat2ch
<Mat2ch> Hey, all my mixes are on that!
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<Althego> do kerbals know fire? they dont know about wheels in the beginning. so maybe they only know of fire in rocket engines too?
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<darsie> The launch pad may catch fire without rocket engines.
<Althego> maybe every time they need fire, they set the launchpad one fire with rockets and rebuild it later
<darsie> Hmm, no luck so far.
<darsie> yep, worked.
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<JVFoxy> wee...?
<Althego> zy?
<JVFoxy> wondering why one design got to orbit like crazy, and another, with the same parts but oriented differently, struggled quite a bit.
<JVFoxy> well ok... nearly same parts.
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<JVFoxy> First one is a pair of boosters on either side of a vac-engine core. Similar setup to the Titan III rocket but with LF boosters instead of SRB.
<JVFoxy> second test was just as a single stage with the two engines below the vac-engine. Mind you.. angling the tanks and not haven enough parts count meant I couldn't do nose cones on the tops of the tanks
<prefixcactus> JVFoxy: oriented differently... do you mean, like, pointed at the ground? :D
<prefixcactus> the second one looks like it should have way less TWR at liftoff than the first one
<Althego> no, not really
<Althego> the vacuum engine doesnt do much
<JVFoxy> Same TWR.. first one is better by 0.01 lol, cuz of the truss I used in the second to make the two sides of the booster connect
<JVFoxy> I don't fire the terrier engine till I'm already way up anyways
<JVFoxy> The Titan III fired its massive SRBs only as its first stage. I don't remember if it hot staged the second/core stage after.
<JVFoxy> Orbit mun mission. But I wanna have some additional fun. stage 1 pad and VAB, assemble stuff in low kerbin orbit (robotic) then send it over.
<JVFoxy> of course.. now I got a usable tug. A redesign of my relay sat to make it lighter?
<JVFoxy> or something else
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<Althego> skyrora. another small rocket startup
<Althego> now i have to watch these too
<Mat2ch> .oO( how many bankruptcies do you want? - Yes. )
<Althego> hehehe
<Althego> maybe they are going to make it
<Mat2ch> well, in Germany they would've been told to get some experience first to get an investment. So 50 years of making rockets.
<Althego> hehe
<Althego> 50
<Althego> even the job hunting is a joke. you need experience but how do you get it if they dont want to hire you?
<Mat2ch> yep
<Mat2ch> I have something even better
<Mat2ch> wait, let me find it :D
<Althego> there is the joke about the ideal priest. he is in his 20s, and has 40 years of experience, he is active in his area, yet he can always be found in church. etc
<Mat2ch> Like that one job advert from IBM, where they looked for someone with 5 years experience in a tool/software-thing that only existed for 2 years.
<Althego> hehehe 4 day weekend
<umaxtu> that sounds like an IBM thing. Do they still fire people for cashing their paychecks at liquor stores?
<Althego> hehe even the voice
<Mat2ch> If I had to work at IBM, I would cash my paycheck at liquor stores as well.
<Althego> lol
<Mat2ch> tbh paychecks? Don't you have bank accounts and bank transfers and stuff?!
<Althego> must be soem american thing
<UmbralRaptop> direct deposit, yo
<Mat2ch> almost nobody gets payed in cash here anymore. Everyone needs a bank account (which makes it hard for some people to get their payment, because no bank wants them anymore. Ah, the fun stuff you have to deal with in life)
<Althego> anyway the german thing was hilariously accurate
<Mat2ch> OH YES
<Mat2ch> It hurt a bit watching it
<JVFoxy> News reporter: how many rockets you wanting to launch into space? Elon: Yes!
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<Althego> that is not even interesting
<Althego> how many rockets do you want to blow up?
<Althego> yes
<JVFoxy> well.. basically saying 'all of them'
<JVFoxy> monoplize it all!
<JVFoxy> If we could put a giant engine on our planet, move it around instead... hmm
<Mat2ch> To company 1: You send all the sats
<Mat2ch> To company 2: And you all the cargo
<Mat2ch> To company 3: And you all the astronauts
<JVFoxy> oh wait.. they sorta did that in The Expanse.. well giant astroid station into Venus but anyways
<Mat2ch> To campany 4: And you are in charge of blowing things up.
<Mat2ch> *company
<JVFoxy> no.. lets go with 'campony' instead.. makes it more fun
<JVFoxy> ... lol.. campany.. oh whatever
<JVFoxy> people enjoy blowing things up too much in KSP, you'd think it spilled out into the real world a bit
<Althego> that is waht i was talking about. 3/3 prototypes, all in pieces
<JVFoxy> eh.. struggling with stupid headache so might get a few wires crossed >_<
<JVFoxy> I don't know.. this whole throwing a rocket at Mars, hoping it land on its butt intact after a rather violent flip over. Is the full scale going to do it slower? Even considered the forces on the passengers inside?
<Althego> it is full scale
<Althego> i doubt it is worse than a roller coastr
<JVFoxy> mind the bump...
<JVFoxy> rather be thrown out in one of them Halo Drop pods to be honest
<Althego> at the moment it doesnt look safe at all
<Althego> and there are also the pressurization problems
* JVFoxy sees leaning rocket, go home, your a little tipsy..
<Althego> if the mun version has separate landing engines, why cant it land on its side?
<Althego> would be lot safer
<Althego> unless they want the landing engines to run on the same fuel
<JVFoxy> belly flop..
<JVFoxy> would need some way to stand it up again to launch maybe?
<Althego> because supposedly the exhaust velocity is so high it sends lunar dust into robit
<Althego> why? just launch on the landing engines
<JVFoxy> starship mun edition? Weren't they going to stick those up higher on the body?
<JVFoxy> I"m guessing landing that way would be difficult due to space, weights and balance issues
<JVFoxy> landing vertically, everything ends up all in a line down towards the bottom
<JVFoxy> if it were me though, I'd rather a separate ship do the landing instead.
<Althego> that adds complexity
<Althego> but yes, a tried and tested method
<Althego> same for going to mars
<Mat2ch> the main engines could have too much thrust for a slow landing on the Moon
<JVFoxy> it was one fo the original ideas they wanted to go with for the Apollo era.
<Althego> why exactly do you need to take the empty fuel tanks to mars?
<JVFoxy> Thing is, you trade complexity for focused purpose
<Mat2ch> and the belly flop will be much more violent with the rcs thrusters.
<Mat2ch> Althego: to fill them up there.
<JVFoxy> fuel farm on Mars?
<Mat2ch> The first starships to Mars will be a fuel farm
<Mat2ch> so you need tanks anyways. :D
<Althego> i think zubrin had the idea with a mini starship inside the cargo bay of a starship
<Althego> and only that would go to mars
<JVFoxy> person: We need tanks on mars! gamer: so.. Battlezone?
<Althego> world of tanks
<JVFoxy> more like worlds of tanks.. c.c
<JVFoxy> spinning habitat ring made of fuel tanks. Ya.. whatever happened to that ol' shuttle era idea?
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<flayer> nice, my lander/rover combo has 2000 dv in vacuum
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<JVFoxy> weeee
<JVFoxy> so...
<JVFoxy> uh...
<UmbralRaptop> LKO → Minmus sample return?
<JVFoxy> ya, net stuff. finding out a website hasn't been revived, but then finding out there's another 'hub page' to these HF SDR sites I didn't know about originally.
<darsie> Minmus science lander: https://i.ibb.co/bJcrLwJ/screenshot364.png
<darsie> Maybe mun.
<JVFoxy> .... direct to minmus launch?
<darsie> Kerbin orbit first.
<darsie> Kinda pointless, as it uses the Dawn, so you'll have been to Minmus long before that.
<darsie> But I like small designs :).
<umaxtu> darsie, then do I have the car for you!
<JVFoxy> lol
<darsie> hehe. I'd like the 1000 mile Aptera, please :).
<JVFoxy> smallest car in the world, its a tire with just an axle..
<Althego> wait
<Althego> 4 wheels
<Althego> i thought only 1
<JVFoxy> umaxtu lol.. I keep seeing that thing more as an armor quad bike
<darsie> Aptera is 3 wheels.
<umaxtu> Peel p50 then?
<Althego> there was a c64 game i tried to beat a lot when i was a kid. some kind of caveman was moving through a terrain with 1 wheel between his legs
<umaxtu> that wasn't a wheel...
<Althego> lol
<Althego> looks like a shopped image
<JVFoxy> no.. its legit
<JVFoxy> I've seen teh video on it.. he based it on the batmobile for some reason
<darsie> That guy looks a bit like Carl Sagan.
<Althego> super flat
<JVFoxy> fastest furniture stint
<JVFoxy> oh wait.. its not actually him driving it.. derp
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<flayer> i seriously love this rover/lander
* darsie landed the Minmus science lander: https://i.ibb.co/nry17Xh/screenshot365.png
<umaxtu> flayer, so you've set it free?
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<flayer> woo, finally recovered the rocket for my shuttle launcher
<packbart> Kiss it and love it and squeeze it and call it George
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